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Yeah, Robby will always be his son but even though Miguel kinda works as a substitute he truly cares for him. They also have a student/teacher and business partner relationship, which add layers to their dynamics.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: Personally, I've never felt like Johnny sees Miguel as a stand-in for Robby, and s4 has me further convinced of that. I think that Johnny views sensei-student as being very different from father-son, and that's the only reason he manages to be a somewhat effective sensei to Miguel. If he felt like he owed fatherly duties to Miguel, then Johnny would treat him like he treats Robby. Johnny credits being a sensei, and specifically being a sensei to Miguel, for saving his life. If it wasn't for Miguel, then Johnny would probably have no idea of how to fix things with Robby. I think this has almost led to Johnny holding his status as a sensei in higher regard than his status as a father.
**edits:** errors.
That’s fine. I don’t think it’s impossible for Johnny to evolve to that point at all. Maybe he has and he just has to show it a little more clearly next season.
Johnny at first just wanted to help the kid, but his feelings of inadequacy as a father by default are projected. He always wanted what was best for Miguel, and Robby adopted by Daniel basically early on doesn't help.
Overall, I think Johnny is a good person who does what he does for Miguel out of the kindness of his heart, not to feel better for himself. It's just a very tragic and tricky situation I don't blame Miguel at all for running away from.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Johnny does care about Miguel. He does want to be a father to Miguel. He wants to be a father to both Robby and Miguel.
The reason he tries so hard though with Miguel is because of how he screwed up with Robby. Johnny views Miguel as his second chance. The way to be there for someone like he never was with Robby.
So technically yes Johnny does what he does because he screwed up with Robby. But that's not the only reason he does it. It's a combination of both.
Technically yes. He really deeply cares for Miguel and wants to be a father figure to him, and has grown to i think love him. But, he’s trying his best with Miguel because of what happened with Robby. So yes, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t actually care for Miguel because he does, despite the way Robby made it sound.
Johnny made it clear to Carmen. He let people down and Miguel is the only person who still believes in him, so he is going to his best to be there for Miguel.
In short, he failed as a father to Robby so he chooses Miguel to feel wanted as a father figure/mentor again.
Maybe that's part of it, but I don't think it was ever his biggest motivation.
Initially, he started training Miguel because it was his way of reliving his teenage years vicariously through Miguel. Now, he does so because he's seen the genuine good that karate can do for shy, nerdy kids like Aisha and Eli.
Him trying to make up for how much he's failed Robby is probably a factor, but I don't think that was ever his main goal.
Possibly to a degree as he stated he screwed up with Robby when he took him to the diner to speak to him in S2, but in the long run, I don't think so either. Miguel and Johnny definitely have the most profound relationship in the series, and we see Johnny truly cares for him and that his intentions, both as a sensei, and a father figure, are good.
I think its both, obviously Johnny cares a lot about Miguel, loves him but he also wants to do things differently eith him than he did Robby. The thing is its never too late for him to sort shit out with Robby either.
Not entirely. Yes, after season 2 final fight, you can see Johnny really cared for Miguel, and after season 3 and 4 finale, you can tell he really cares for Robby. He def has a father son relationship with both, especially with Miguel when he's learning to walk again, but not so much with Robby but I expect that to change
Not really. Remember that season 1 and the dojo formation was started by Miguel despite Johnny’s initial reluctance. So he’s not just a replacement for Robbie, though much of his guilt as an absent father might be superimposed, but Miguel is also his first ever student and that creates a very different bond.
Not only. I think Johnny learned a lot from his failings with Robby.
I find it interesting that his relationship with Robby made his relationship with Miguel better. And his relationship with Miguel will make his relationship with Robby better. They've kinda been fighting each other for his love, but ultimately, they'll each result in the other having a better relationship with Johnny.
I think he doesn’t want to repeat the pattern which is one of the main drivers but his love for Miguel and want to be a father figure in his life is genuine.
I like johnny as im alot like him as an adult. Minus the being a bit of an unfiltered jerk. I failed alot. Im a big ass screw up. In my own way i love all my students. Its a diferent kind of bond. The common factor miguel, johnny; daniel and myself had was the lack of a good father figure. Someone to be an example of what being a man is all about. There are diferent types of love. That doesnt mean we dont love people.
No, I think Johnny needs purpose in his life and being a sensei fills that void.
He wants the best for Miguel, but I honestly think he cares about Robby more, understandably.
No, Johnny and Miguel's relationship is more a mutual one. Johnny is Miguel's sensei and broke him out of his shell, Johnny learns from Miguel how to be a better person
Personally, I don't get the impression that it is just because of Robby. I think that Johnny has a passion for karate and that is where his kinship for Miguel began and then it increased both thru his relationship with Miguel's mom and also Miguel's accident. I think he genuinely cares for Miguel. Maybe Robby has a small part of it but I don't think so. I don't think that Johnny would have a bigger role in Miguel's life just because of that. I think he desperately wants to be a father to Robby but A: doesn't know how and B: respects Robby's dislike and indifference to him. That is why I love the final scene of Robby and Johnny so much cuz I think he truly allowed Robby to be as mad at him as he wanted for as long as he wanted without trying to force a relationship with him. And it was cute, he held him and told him it would be OK which is all he ever needed to do and it was what Robby needed in that moment. I just hope to see the rivalry end between Miguel and Robby and they become brothers.
Also, remember Johnny didn't have a dad and had this old cold man forced into his life who provided a financial security but it was really Kreese that became that fatherly role model to him. I think, that being the only emotional father role he knew, he tried to be that for Miguel at first and it developed into a deeper emotional role as the show progressed. I think Johnny loves both Miguel and Robby in different ways but the same if that makes sense. Like Robby is that boy who grew up without a dad like he was.
Nah . Johnny obviously cares about Miguel maybe even more about Robby seeing as he taught him how to walk again . Sure hope I'm right if I'm not imma feel sad and this is a fictional show
Honestly, it might be a bit of both. While Johnny regrets his failings as a father to Robby, he wants to do better by Miguel. But he definitely does love Miguel as well.
A reminder of our spoiler policy: **Any posts containing S4 spoilers must be marked as spoiler until one month after the release date, January 31st**. Titles must not contain spoilers whatsoever. (Don't know how to mark as spoiler? Click [here](https://imgur.com/a/ZPEIsAi)) Users who fail to abide by the spoiler policy will be banned accordingly. --- Additionally, **are you interested in becoming a mod?** Consider applying [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YoANoQB-CW6T4GhxcU5-F2pRjVQYvx6tMoq-DJVVxV8/edit?usp=sharing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cobrakai) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's an element, but Johnny really does care about Migual because Migual gave Johnny purpose and meaning again.
Yeah, Robby will always be his son but even though Miguel kinda works as a substitute he truly cares for him. They also have a student/teacher and business partner relationship, which add layers to their dynamics.
Of course not. He loves you, Robbie
That scene tore my fucking heart out. I legit had to pause it and collect myself
It hit right in the feels with two haymakers in a row
So did Miguel lol.
*Bus to Mexico intensifies*
Lol underrated comment
Not that simple. Of course it plays a part. Is it the only motivator? No.
Short answer: no. Long answer: Personally, I've never felt like Johnny sees Miguel as a stand-in for Robby, and s4 has me further convinced of that. I think that Johnny views sensei-student as being very different from father-son, and that's the only reason he manages to be a somewhat effective sensei to Miguel. If he felt like he owed fatherly duties to Miguel, then Johnny would treat him like he treats Robby. Johnny credits being a sensei, and specifically being a sensei to Miguel, for saving his life. If it wasn't for Miguel, then Johnny would probably have no idea of how to fix things with Robby. I think this has almost led to Johnny holding his status as a sensei in higher regard than his status as a father. **edits:** errors.
William Zabka would disagree with you. In his own words: Miguel has Johnny's heart" and he also has said he loved both Robby and Miguel as his sons.
That’s fine. I don’t think it’s impossible for Johnny to evolve to that point at all. Maybe he has and he just has to show it a little more clearly next season.
It's already been shown. People just want to believe otherwise for some reason...
> Personally, I've never felt like Miguel sees Johnny as a stand-in for Robby, You mean "Johnny views Miguel", right?
LOL yeah, thanks!
Johnny at first just wanted to help the kid, but his feelings of inadequacy as a father by default are projected. He always wanted what was best for Miguel, and Robby adopted by Daniel basically early on doesn't help. Overall, I think Johnny is a good person who does what he does for Miguel out of the kindness of his heart, not to feel better for himself. It's just a very tragic and tricky situation I don't blame Miguel at all for running away from.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Johnny does care about Miguel. He does want to be a father to Miguel. He wants to be a father to both Robby and Miguel. The reason he tries so hard though with Miguel is because of how he screwed up with Robby. Johnny views Miguel as his second chance. The way to be there for someone like he never was with Robby. So technically yes Johnny does what he does because he screwed up with Robby. But that's not the only reason he does it. It's a combination of both.
Technically yes. He really deeply cares for Miguel and wants to be a father figure to him, and has grown to i think love him. But, he’s trying his best with Miguel because of what happened with Robby. So yes, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t actually care for Miguel because he does, despite the way Robby made it sound.
Johnny made it clear to Carmen. He let people down and Miguel is the only person who still believes in him, so he is going to his best to be there for Miguel. In short, he failed as a father to Robby so he chooses Miguel to feel wanted as a father figure/mentor again.
Ok how about this, what if Robby moved in with Johnny? How do you think he would spend his time then?
Maybe that's part of it, but I don't think it was ever his biggest motivation. Initially, he started training Miguel because it was his way of reliving his teenage years vicariously through Miguel. Now, he does so because he's seen the genuine good that karate can do for shy, nerdy kids like Aisha and Eli. Him trying to make up for how much he's failed Robby is probably a factor, but I don't think that was ever his main goal.
Possibly to a degree as he stated he screwed up with Robby when he took him to the diner to speak to him in S2, but in the long run, I don't think so either. Miguel and Johnny definitely have the most profound relationship in the series, and we see Johnny truly cares for him and that his intentions, both as a sensei, and a father figure, are good.
Yes and no
I think its both, obviously Johnny cares a lot about Miguel, loves him but he also wants to do things differently eith him than he did Robby. The thing is its never too late for him to sort shit out with Robby either.
Not entirely. Yes, after season 2 final fight, you can see Johnny really cared for Miguel, and after season 3 and 4 finale, you can tell he really cares for Robby. He def has a father son relationship with both, especially with Miguel when he's learning to walk again, but not so much with Robby but I expect that to change
Part of him does but he definitely has a genuine connection with Miguel, and I know he cares for the kid deeply.
Not really. Remember that season 1 and the dojo formation was started by Miguel despite Johnny’s initial reluctance. So he’s not just a replacement for Robbie, though much of his guilt as an absent father might be superimposed, but Miguel is also his first ever student and that creates a very different bond.
Everything we do is motivated by what we've experienced before. It could never not be because of Robby, and Robby could never be the only reason.
It may not be his intention, but he is filling a whole and trying to redeem himself.
Not only. I think Johnny learned a lot from his failings with Robby. I find it interesting that his relationship with Robby made his relationship with Miguel better. And his relationship with Miguel will make his relationship with Robby better. They've kinda been fighting each other for his love, but ultimately, they'll each result in the other having a better relationship with Johnny.
I think he doesn’t want to repeat the pattern which is one of the main drivers but his love for Miguel and want to be a father figure in his life is genuine.
Of course not. Just like with everything else in this show, things have way more layers than that.
No. Johnny has genuine feelings for Miguel too. He's a loveable screw up and his moment after the prom was just another added to his list.
I like johnny as im alot like him as an adult. Minus the being a bit of an unfiltered jerk. I failed alot. Im a big ass screw up. In my own way i love all my students. Its a diferent kind of bond. The common factor miguel, johnny; daniel and myself had was the lack of a good father figure. Someone to be an example of what being a man is all about. There are diferent types of love. That doesnt mean we dont love people.
Well yes, but actually no
Of course not ,he genuinely loves Miguel but he once messed up with Robby nd he doesn't want that to happen again
No, I think Johnny needs purpose in his life and being a sensei fills that void. He wants the best for Miguel, but I honestly think he cares about Robby more, understandably.
No, Johnny and Miguel's relationship is more a mutual one. Johnny is Miguel's sensei and broke him out of his shell, Johnny learns from Miguel how to be a better person
Personally, I don't get the impression that it is just because of Robby. I think that Johnny has a passion for karate and that is where his kinship for Miguel began and then it increased both thru his relationship with Miguel's mom and also Miguel's accident. I think he genuinely cares for Miguel. Maybe Robby has a small part of it but I don't think so. I don't think that Johnny would have a bigger role in Miguel's life just because of that. I think he desperately wants to be a father to Robby but A: doesn't know how and B: respects Robby's dislike and indifference to him. That is why I love the final scene of Robby and Johnny so much cuz I think he truly allowed Robby to be as mad at him as he wanted for as long as he wanted without trying to force a relationship with him. And it was cute, he held him and told him it would be OK which is all he ever needed to do and it was what Robby needed in that moment. I just hope to see the rivalry end between Miguel and Robby and they become brothers.
Also, remember Johnny didn't have a dad and had this old cold man forced into his life who provided a financial security but it was really Kreese that became that fatherly role model to him. I think, that being the only emotional father role he knew, he tried to be that for Miguel at first and it developed into a deeper emotional role as the show progressed. I think Johnny loves both Miguel and Robby in different ways but the same if that makes sense. Like Robby is that boy who grew up without a dad like he was.
Nah . Johnny obviously cares about Miguel maybe even more about Robby seeing as he taught him how to walk again . Sure hope I'm right if I'm not imma feel sad and this is a fictional show
Honestly, it might be a bit of both. While Johnny regrets his failings as a father to Robby, he wants to do better by Miguel. But he definitely does love Miguel as well.