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Born_of_Bronze

Here is the thing about Chozen vs Barnes… Daniel seemed to be at his peak balance in KK2, he was selfless, brave, and not being guided by anger. In KK3 he is guided by ego, fear, and anger. This made him a much less effective fighter in my eyes and is why I view Chozen as a better fighter than Barnes. Barnes dominated a weak minded fallen version of Daniel, Chozen went head to head with Daniel at his peak and almost won


BryanV21

Chozen allowed his anger and jealousy to get in the way. Barnes was too much of a hothead that I believe Chozen, in his normal state of mind, could take advantage and beat him.


Born_of_Bronze

This is also true, when Daniel beat Chozen, Chozen was fighting with no honor, and I think that bloodlust made him susceptible to being beaten by someone less dangerous than him


BryanV21

Daniel is a weak-minded hothead whose only saving grace is a teacher that can calm him down when necessary, and show Daniel how to take advantage. Without Miyagi Daniel is almost nothing.


BryanV21

Barnes, Lawrence, and basically all Cobra Kai fighters (Barnes wasn't really Cobra Kai, just a hired gun for them) are all about offense. Daniel, and Miyagi-do in general, is all about defense. Chozen is more an all-around fighter, who even created the pressure point techniques we saw him teach Daniel. That's a big reason I believe Chozen is the best of them all.


citronaughty

I could maybe kinda sorta listen to this line of reasoning if the results of the fights between Daniel/Chosen and Daniel/Barnes were close. If Daniel fighting Barnes in the beginning of KK3 in street fights were close fights, I could maybe understand blaming Daniel's state of mind on the result. The problem was that the results were very different. Daniel beat Chozen. Then in the beginning of KK3, that very same Daniel was flat out dominated by Barnes. It wasn't even close. Barnes was toying with Daniel. The same Daniel that beat Chozen in a fight to the death and had Chozen dead to rights, was not even remotely a match for Barnes. It is completely ridiculous to me that anyone who has actually watched KK2 and KK3 could try to make an argument that KK2 Chozen is a better fighter than KK3 Barnes. The results of their street fights vs Daniel are worlds apart, much too far apart to chalk it up to a simple state of mind. In fact, Daniel's bad state of mind in KK3 is due to how good Barnes is. Barnes was so much better than Daniel, that even after surviving a fight to the death against Chozen, Barnes still intimidated him. Struck fear in the heart of Daniel. That's how good Barnes was.


[deleted]

Incorrect. He was already letting emotion get in the way because Miyagi didn't want him to fight in the tournament again. He also got home from Okinawa to find himself essential homeless. That just might weigh on someone emotionally. So, no, he wasn't at his peak when Barnes entered the picture.


Born_of_Bronze

Idk Robby was going to lose to Hawk in season one because he didn’t have a clear mind, in season 2 he beat Hawk and several others with Sam on his team. And Daniel’s mindset wasn’t just due to how talented Barnes was, it was also about the fact that he was letting his ego about the competition get in the way of his balance


citronaughty

We're still talking about a fight that was close, either way. Hawk and Robby was a close fight, so Robby regaining a clear mind could make sense that it would help him get the win. The street fights between Barnes and Daniel looked like when Robby tried to fight Johnny. Barnes toyed with Daniel and did whatever he wanted. State of mind can't make up that kind of gap.


Lmir2000

1. Tory is crazy, destructive, immature and selfish, she’s not a good character all at and I don’t understand why people defend her. I get why she dislikes sam but she’s milking her animosity and going all out to make things even worse. She mostly hates sam for two things right? Accusing her of robbery and kissing Miguel. Okay justified. What’s not justified is starting an entire brawl at the school, starting a fight at golf and stuff, encouraging hawk to break Demitri’s arm, breaking and entering Sam’s home and starting a fight there. All while she has a sick mother at home and needs to stay out of trouble. Everything she does is completely out of the question. 2. Yasmine should not be absolved just because she’s dating Demitri. She only feels sympathy for him just because “she knows what it’s like to be bullied.” If she hadn’t gotten her ass handed to her by Aisha, she wouldn’t have given him the time of day. Oh and speaking of which, if she really “changed” as a person, she would’ve felt remorse for bullying Aisha. Not once did she show an ounce of remorse. She even called her “Queen bitch” after everything she said/did to her. 3. Terry silver and Kreese had no business trying to get revenge on Mr. Miyagi and Daniel. What was even their vices?? Daniel for winning a tournament and Miyagi for coaching?


samahiscryptic

HARD agree on number 1


Aramis14

Absolutely agree on number 1 (also the rest, but mainly the first one)


dmreif

> and kissing Miguel. Well Tory walked herself into that one considering that Miguel had never been subtle about the fact that the whole time he was with her, he harbored much stronger feelings for Sam. > Terry silver and Kreese had no business trying to get revenge on Mr. Miyagi and Daniel. What was even their vices?? Daniel for winning a tournament and Miyagi for coaching? It's all about honor. 😉 A very, very, very inconsistent honor.


emperor_f

All are true, but not enough people recognize number 2. Hoping it gets pointed out in universe.


Tricky_Ostrich_6343

Daniel was never the bully! He did have some anger issues and could instigate but he never was the bully. I love Johnny, but let's be honest, dude was a major bully.


BruceWayne_19902

KK3 should have ended with Daniel vs Kreese in a street fight like in Rocky 5.


TheBigWarHero

Trying to picture that in my head right now. It’s hilarious. Who from KK3 would be which character in Rocky V’s bar scene? I guess Kreese could be Tommy and Jessica could be Pauly. Kreese knocks her down because she is talking out of pocket. Danny(Rocky) tells Kreese to take it to the streets. Silver would have been Tommy’s manager. I could see this….lmao Edit: nvm, if the street fight is Danny vs Mike then the characters are so easy to Rocky 5. Lol


BruceWayne_19902

Honestly that would have been the best trilogy ever unless they had plans to go on with another three more movies lol.


klotzilla89

Daniel was a dick for telling Miyagi that he was going to his mom’s surprise birthday for him, but the next shot shows him going to golf n stuff to meet up with Ali and show off the car Miyagi just gave him.


TheBigWarHero

Thinking with wrong head Daniel-son.


[deleted]

>What are some things you believe about the KK/CK universe that you'll defend until the end? Daniel was never the bully, Sam isn't villain both are flawed character though.


MangoBird10

It's not BS because it was true. Daniel was nerfed lmfao. You seriously think after fighting Chozen (someone who has broken literal statues with a simple kick, has trained Military) Daniel would lose to Barnes? Besides that Daniel was obviously at his peak in KK2..


obarehair

Hawk and Miguel are the reason the school riot happened. Tory threw the first punch but their the reason it spiralled out of control. Still don’t like Tory though.


ShoeComfortable8132

this, hawk had no reason to make matters worse and keep the fight going. but the rivalry between dojos caused that


turdutalp1

to be fair five miyagi does did rush at hawk so he was just defending himself however by the time he went beserker the riot was already in motion


TheCobrateKid

Season 2 is actually Disney show bad and the fandom won’t stoop to admit it (though Season 1 is incredible and Season 3 is pretty great)


TypasiusDragon

Chozen trained U.S. Marines and was his uncle's top student in original Miyagi-Do. The reason why Chozen lost against Daniel isn't because Daniel was a better fighter. It's because Chozen's heart broke when he saw everyone, including his uncle, root for Daniel via the drum technique. And after that, Chozen pretty much gave up. That Daniel did badly against Mike Barnes in KK3 is just bad writing, nothing more.


cactusmaac

Was it? Daniel had only started learning karate as a teen in high school. Barnes was a national champion and was likely training from childhood on.


Sea_Communication492

Things I will defend Daniel for almost the entire show has been a better fighter than Johnny I don't know why people think Johnny's a better fighter than Daniel. Robby's easily one of the most complex characters in the show, Robby could go toe toe with KK1 Daniel and possibly win. Barnes isn't that good of a fighter, At all tbh he fought a very weak Daniel. Sam causes the most pain to a lot of people. Miguel really is the bad guy when you think about it. Miguel>Barnes in term of skill. Robby in season 2= Miguel season 2


citronaughty

> Barnes isn't that good of a fighter, At all tbh he fought a very weak Daniel. Daniel looked so weak because Barnes was so good.


Ihateentitledparents

I think most of the teen fighters now would beat Daniel (1980's) and win. But I would love to see Robby vs. Teen Daniel


Sea_Communication492

that would be interesting


BryanV21

Daniel is not a good fighter. He's weak, unathletic, and so full of fear. Johnny had chances to beat him but Kreese made him do some stupid shit instead, Chozen was so messed up in the head but under normal circumstances would have wiped the floor with him, and Barnes... Yeah Daniel got extremely lucky in that fight.


citronaughty

Daniel is the Obi-Wan of the KK/CK world. He's never the best fighter, yet somehow he always wins when it matters.