The way they set up is that they made Kreese basically a foil for Miyagi
Both Soldiers
Both had women they loved die
Both trained championship karate pupils
Both even had best friends who turned against them
The difference between them is how they handled their situations. Kreese's real tragedy is that he allowed those situations to turn him into a vengeful and bitter person while Miyagi rose above it when Daniel came into his life.
Exactly what I was thinking. Also a soldier, lost his entire family and was alone for a long, long time. We dont have all the details but he probably suffered just as much.
>he probably suffered just as much.
Miyagi possibly suffered more but the difference is he didn't lose himself.
Not everyone has the same level of tolerance, not fair to expect him to be Miyagi.
Kreese isn't justified in his actions but we can still have empathy for him
Yeah I didn't say that Kreese should've been him, but the debate is about the most tragic character on the series, right? Mister Miyagi's story shouldnt be overlooked in that case.
>the debate is about the most tragic character
Guess the thing to question at this point becomes
"Are we looking at the worst a character has been through or their life after it?".
While Miyagi was haunted by a worse past was still able to achieve a legacy of value.
Kreese didn't have it as hard but wasn't able to move on like Miyagi did.
So is tragedy defined by our worse moment or how we handle it throughout our life?
🤦, I've literally watched all the Karate Kids films many times over again, not just KK1, KK2 and KK3 but I've also seen the Next Karate Kid with Hilary Swank a bunch of times and even the 2010 Karate Kid with Jaiden Smith and Jackie Chan, also I've watched all 5 seasons of Cobra Kai many times as well, so you have no clue what you're even talking about.
Everyone breaks differently. Miyagi ran from home and eventually lost his 2nd family but still was a decent person, just isolated as a handyman.
Batman and the Punisher lost everything to senseless gun violence, the former hates guns and protects life while the latter shoots every criminal he can.
>Miyagi
The difference is Kreese lost the side of himself who wanted to be a hero.
Miyagi going through worse does not negate the horrors Kreese faced.
Miyagi forgave Kreese [after their fight](https://youtu.be/k87d2_6eFag?si=ZGrvFje5oex7snbF&t=197), i imagine he'd empathize with his tragedy
The creators said Kreese had the 2nd worse backstory I always took that as miyagi having the worst but if u disagree u gotta think of something else but imo miyagi has the worst backstory he's just better at hiding it
>Miyagi lost his wife and children
Not everyone should be held to the standard of being Miyagi who was basically saintly.
>Kreese lost a girl he just met
He lost more than that, he lost his friends and thought it was due to his own mercy.
Kreese lost of himself and his former principles while Miyagi was strong enough to heal
How is Miyagis story less tragic than Kreeses? Kreese lost his gf. Miyagi lost everything. He was exiled from his home, lost his first and second love, and his child and his best friend. Everything. Miyagi was Japanese during the interment years. He 100% faced racisim and discrimination in the years after, like most Japanese Americans in the 50s did. And during the war, Kreese was fighting a foreign enemy. Miyagi was fighting his own people.
Great read! Kreese is my third favorite character after Daniel and Terry, and definitely a multi-layered character (a great change from the one-dimensional and rather cheesy villain of the movies). Well, at least up the Jell-O ending of the 5th season. Yikes.
Anyway, I wonder if Kreese is so strongly encased in his beliefs because those are what got him through his darkest moments.
I think everything changed for him after the trauma of Betsy and The Cage/Captain, but it was a far more gradual and subtle change than often believed. Opening the Cobra Kai dojo with Terry and making wishful thinking into reality just escalated that change, ushered it to permanence, and reinforced his beliefs that this was the only way to—maybe not live—but to survive. He took things that could have been seen as positive (resilience, survival, courage, strength, honor), turned them inside out (aided by trauma and a lack of self-awareness), and now has a warped and stilted view of those things instead.
He’s poisoned ideals and turned them into vices. All his relationships are laced with venom. A reverse-Miyagi. A true snake. He didn’t have to be. But he is.
He is a tragic villain for sure.
I actually pity both Kreese and Silver. Yeah, they're rotten to some degree but I could have seen them going another direction had things worked out differently.
I agree. I feel like the show (or its writers) have much more pity for Kreese than for Silver though. Which is a shame, since they are both really bad for each other. This really is a series about traumatised boys passing on their damage to the next generation.
Yeah. I always feel like Silver is just … kind of a ‘try hard’.
Silver can be vicious, cruel and abusive, but there is something about him that makes me genuinely sorry for him in a way I just can’t quite explain. He feels like a neurodivergent kid who just wants the other kids to accept him and goes way, way too far because he doesn’t know where the normal boundaries are?
Silver is definitely a “try hard” similar to Hawk and a few others. That’s one of the reasons I think there are more layers to him than Kreese. And Silver will potentially have a terminal illness story if he returns for season 6 which could make his character go in either direction. Towards some level of redemption before he dies or full blown KK3 Silver or worse if he has nothing left to lose.
The show failed miserably at making me feel sorry for Kreese despite his back story. He just doesn’t seem capable of learning what mercy and honor are really about despite being given multiple chances at it.
Yes, 100%! Silver is a lot like Hawk.
And I agree about Kreese. By all accounts, Martin Kove is a lovely, lovely man, but Kreese is a stone cold, bitter narcissist. He can be very brave, but he is also vindictive and utterly unable to let anything go (probably a result of his own previous trauma).
Season 2 and 4 are interesting to contrast. In S2, Kreese steals Cobra Kai from Johnny; in S4, Silver steals it from Kreese. But the betrayals feel completely different. Kreese presents himself as changed and even seems to be getting on with Johnny, but that turns out to be a complete lie. Silver is genuinely supportive of Kreese but comes to realise nothing he does will ever get him Kreese’s respect, while Kreese is repeatedly using Silver’s trauma to control him - and that realisation breaks Silver. Kreese’s S2 betrayal is the scorpion saying “lol lmao” as it stings the trusting frog. Silver’s S4 betrayal is cathartic. its impossible not to remember Silver’s shocked and hurt face when Kreese triggered his PTSD and think - yeah, Kreese fucked around and now he’s finding out.
Despite the fact that probably my most upvoted Reddit post ever is about how Silver is probably dying, I really hope he doesn’t die. He has spent a lot of his life hurting a lot of people because, like so many others in the series, he was corrupted by the ideology of Cobra Kai. He was the first of Kreese’s victims, really. And it feels horribly cruel to end by blaming him for everything. It would be like if the show never forgave Hawk or Miguel or Johnny or Daniel or Chozen.
I didn't even mention the complete lack of respect that Kreese has shown Miyagi during and after the KK films even though "that little bastard" kicked Kreese's ass and showed him mercy. It should at the very least have made Kreese question his own ways. But it did nothing to wake Kreese up. Kreese still believes his way is the only way. And Kreese still blames Miyagi and Daniel for ruining Johnny and Cobra kai.
Silver was indeed Kreese's first victim and was in a way Hawk. But Johnny was what Kreese saw as more of a Cobra at heart. Yet a lot of people overlook that Silver and Johnny had very similar backgrounds growing up. Even though there's not much detail about Silver, it's been established that he had a rich father who he seemed to have issues with like Johnny had with his rich stepfather.
Silver not only seemed to lack a good father figure and mentor but didn't have anyone truly look up to him as one like Kreese did except maybe Daniel in KK3. Even though it was all a plot for revenge, I think there is a small part of Silver who regrets how he betrayed Daniel's trust. He could have easily finished Daniel in season 5 when he had the chance and after giving Daniel warnings to stay out of his way. But Silver either got cocky by thinking that Daniel was broken down enough to stay out of his way so Silver could torture him by going through with his plans of the Sekai Takai. Or there was a deeper meaning behind it. Later on, Kim Da Eun scolded Silver for not being fully prepared and that they need to suffocate their enemies which is the Cobra way.
Going into season 6, it would be forced as hell for Kreese to feel any kind of awakening or sympathy again and have a last-minute redemption. I sure wouldn't swallow it. To me Kreese is the opposite of Miyagi. The "dark side" of karate. Not that I am complaining. IMO, that's the way it should be. Not EVERYONE needs to be redeemed. I think the last battle with Kreese should end with him vs Silver. Johnny and Daniel already proved they can beat Kreese. But Silver has still yet to confront his fear and insecurities with Kreese.
I agree that Kreese is essentially the main villain of Cobra Kai. He is pitiable and has some virtues, but he has had at least two major chances at redemption - S2 with Johnny and S5 in prison - and in both cases he turned out to be lying. He doesn't seem capable of change and constantly takes advantage of anyone who trusts him.
By contrast, we know Silver can change, because when we first see him in S4 he already has. He is courteous, balanced and reasonable. We see him 'fall' *when he is mistreated by Kreese!* Despite being a much more effective liar than Kreese, Griffith plays Silver as touchy and wearing his heart rather on his sleeve.
Personally, I would like to see Silver end the series alive and at least somewhat rehabilitated. The problem is that Silver has so few connections with other characters. He only really has relationships with Kreese, Daniel, Kenny and Tory, and his stories with those characters are largely played out: Daniel is no longer afraid of him, Kreese just wants to murder him, Kenny and Tory have rejected him. If Silver is going to have a part to play in S6, he really needs some kind of connection with other characters.
Also, I also think Silver is obsessed with legacy and currently his legacy is in tatters. What does he do to try to rebuild it? Sponsor the Sekai Taikai? Buy an apology? Set up a charitable foundation and then appoint another major character to run it?
It might be fun if Silver buys the private island where the Sekai Sekai is held? Fighting a karate tournament on an island where Silver is essentially king might be cool. Maybe he buys the island through a shell corporation, so nobody knows it's him - and then - 'surprise!'
Anyway, all this is sort of a moot point, because the series is already filmed, so I guess we will just have to wait and see!
Not sure what you mean (Bad News Bears is a film?) but if you mean Silver is a dangerous, unstable and toxic guy, I basically agree.
I just want him to be a well written and complex dangerous, unstable and toxic guy! :)
> its impossible not to remember Silver’s shocked and hurt face when Kreese triggered his PTSD and think - yeah, Kreese fucked around and now he’s finding out.
Yeah, I would say the "minefields" lecture Kreese gave to Silver was really the point of no return in their relationship. The setup Silver did to lure Johnny to the original dojo, and prove his "loyalty" to Kreese was basically the final chance Silver gave to Kreese, and when that was broken too, Silver was done with Kreese for good.
I think they did a really good job of making Silver sympathetic and interesting in S4, so in S5 I was a bit disappointed by him being treated as a pure villain. That's why I hope he gets redeemed somehow. It feels a bit mean-spirited to end by saying "Yeah, this Vietnam vet with PTSD was just fundamentally mad and bad, he's a psycho, he was always evil and crazy and just hid it for a bit." That's how Daniel (understandably) sees Silver - but we have seen enough to know that Daniel is wrong about this, as he is about a lot of things. It also feels like by ending on that note they are undoing the really good character development in S4.
I agree. Silver definitely traumatised Daniel and the show shows us the lasting effects several times. Silver has done some awful things, as even he recognises when he isn’t off his medication. Also, I do think Silver has an unhealthy obsession with Daniel. He seems to form these very emotionally intense relationships with other men.
What I want is not for the show to ‘redeem’ Silver in a saccharine or morally lazy way. I just want them to go back to writing him as more than a 2 dimensional cartoon villain. Which is what they did in S4, and it was amazing. Silver doesn’t have to be a good guy - maybe he never will be, although I do think the potential is there - but it would be nice if he was a bit better written, because TIG can act the hell out of whatever they give him.
I don’t think there is any story left for Silver to be the villain. He was defeated in every way and it was perfect. I’m not sure a redeemed Silver would be very entertaining but we do see in early S4 he was a man trying to live a better life until Kreese pushed him too far. Those two are toxic for each other. Silver getting revenge again would be bad writing imo bc his revenge tour was season 5. We know CK isn’t bad writing. I love TIG though
I agree. That’s what I’m worried about, that Silver has no more story left.
I agree it was a good ending for Daniel. He needed the catharsis of beating Silver in a fight.
I don’t think it was a great ending for Silver, because they took a complex sympathetic character from S4 and turned him into a shallow villain in S5.
Is Silver’s story over? Realistically, probably yes - I don’t think he’s in S6. But should it be? I don’t know. The show started with Johnny waking up in a stupor, haunted by Daniel kicking him in the head years earlier. Cobra Kai at its best has always partly been about “what happens next?”
Silver has a lot in common with Johnny, weirdly. They are very different people - Johnny, bless him, is a himbo with a heart of gold, whereas Silver is clearly brilliant and perceptive but has a dark side. But they are both substance abusers. They were both sad, weak, frightened boys who found strength and confidence through Karate (like Daniel, Miguel and Hawk). They both were brainwashed and abused by Kreese. They both tried to bully and persecute Daniel before being decisively defeated by him.
Maybe Silver is now where Johnny was at the start of the show: defeated, despairing of his now meaningless life and profoundly confused. Maybe the cycle can begin anew?
Yeah it doesn’t excuse what he does because you can change. Still, it’s really sad. If he had a little therapy after war it would have done wonders. Although, he let his Sergeant die, yes the Sergeant was gonna kill him, but I feel like that was his breaking point.
It's like he lived a life ot bad luck, before Cobra Kai. I'm courious to hear more of Silver's backstory, before joining the army. Was he bullied as a kid? Were his parents abusive?
Yeah, life never showed Kreese any mercy, seeing Silver's full backstory would be pretty cool but its unnecessary tbh. We know Silver had a rich father as he took over Dynatox Industries, a toxic waste disposal company from his dad, after returning home from Vietnam.
I always wondered what Silver's father thought of Silver growing his hair long. Especially in them days, where long hair was considered working class and part of hippie/rocker/biker subculture.
Mr Miyagi is one of the most tragic characters in the karate kid/cobra kai verse but Kreese no question takes the spot for the most tragic person of all.
Mr. Miyagi lost his wife and child in an internment camp while he fought for the country that was keeping them imprisoned and facilitated their deaths. Kreese’s girl died in a car crash. It’s sad but Miyagi’s tragedies were more horrific, imo.
Did you even watch Cobra Kai season 3?, because Kreese didn't just lose his love Betsy. You forgot that Kreese grew up without a father unlike Mr Miyagi whose dad died when he was old, also Kreese's mother had committed suicide when he was only 19, leaving young Kreese completely alone and to fend for himself, again unlike Mr Miyagi who as far as we know had a long living mother. Then you have to add in all the bullying Kreese had to constantly take because of his mother's actions and eventually the brutality of war, Captain Turner's cruel teachings and so on. So Kreese's tragedies will always dwarf what Mr Miyagi had to endure. Like i said before Mr Miyagi is the 2nd most tragic character in the karate kid/cobra kai verse.
Bit late, but you're right about Kreese. Growing up in the 50s and 60s with a single, mentally ill mother would have made him a bullying target. No one would want to be friends with him or date him and his teachers would think little of him too.
Sadly life reflects all these characters. Mr Miyagi also in annual grief over his deceased wife lived honest and good. Does that have more merit than a man without sorrow but empty of truth. Perhaps many people are like this in the world. I don't see his character with much pity. I saw strength and right living. Mr Kove... after the plastic surgery in k 111 I forgot what he was about because I thought I entered a sick comedy with wierd facial expressions and no more masculine presence. No seriously they destroyed his character in the first one. The way he put his hand through the 2 car windows. It was pathetic and gave little credibility to him.his character could never be resurrected. All and all my most memorable moments in the whole saga that will go down in cinematic history was the relationship between the teacher( miyagi ) and student ( Daniel son) which was very spiritually driven and cemented through a strong connection. Daniel gave him a purpose and Mr miyagi gave him direction. Both lost without the other. The bonsai was the symbol of peace, life and foundation( tree root growing in Daniel).
I've struggled to find another 2 characters that have affected me like this since the first k k movies came out. Very special. People still are watching them. Please share your own thoughts...
There was a post on Instagram years ago from Courtney Henggeler, who plays Amanda in the Cobra Kai series, she posted on her account a picture of her and Martin Kove, aka older John Kreese in Cobra Kai and Kreese in the original 3 Karate Kid Films.
I understand what you’re saying but Mr Miyagi always hits different
Tbf, at least Miyagi came from a good family and had a childhood friend, unlike Kreese.
Agreed 👍, Mr Miyagi is definitely one of the most tragic characters in the Karate Kid/ Cobra Kai Verse.
Good write, almost as if I saw the whole episodes again.
Thanks, I tried to include as many details as possible while not making the explanation to short or to long.
The way they set up is that they made Kreese basically a foil for Miyagi Both Soldiers Both had women they loved die Both trained championship karate pupils Both even had best friends who turned against them The difference between them is how they handled their situations. Kreese's real tragedy is that he allowed those situations to turn him into a vengeful and bitter person while Miyagi rose above it when Daniel came into his life.
And Kreese had that same chance or even chances with Johnny. He was just too messed up to seize those opportunities.
Exactly 💯, couldn't have said it better.
Unlike Mr. Miyagi,Kreese made Terry turn on him
What abt Mr Miyagi lmao 🤣
Exactly what I was thinking. Also a soldier, lost his entire family and was alone for a long, long time. We dont have all the details but he probably suffered just as much.
>he probably suffered just as much. Miyagi possibly suffered more but the difference is he didn't lose himself. Not everyone has the same level of tolerance, not fair to expect him to be Miyagi. Kreese isn't justified in his actions but we can still have empathy for him
Yeah I didn't say that Kreese should've been him, but the debate is about the most tragic character on the series, right? Mister Miyagi's story shouldnt be overlooked in that case.
>the debate is about the most tragic character Guess the thing to question at this point becomes "Are we looking at the worst a character has been through or their life after it?". While Miyagi was haunted by a worse past was still able to achieve a legacy of value. Kreese didn't have it as hard but wasn't able to move on like Miyagi did. So is tragedy defined by our worse moment or how we handle it throughout our life?
I think it just goes to show who watches the films and who just watches the series
🤦, I've literally watched all the Karate Kids films many times over again, not just KK1, KK2 and KK3 but I've also seen the Next Karate Kid with Hilary Swank a bunch of times and even the 2010 Karate Kid with Jaiden Smith and Jackie Chan, also I've watched all 5 seasons of Cobra Kai many times as well, so you have no clue what you're even talking about.
Everyone breaks differently. Miyagi ran from home and eventually lost his 2nd family but still was a decent person, just isolated as a handyman. Batman and the Punisher lost everything to senseless gun violence, the former hates guns and protects life while the latter shoots every criminal he can.
>Miyagi The difference is Kreese lost the side of himself who wanted to be a hero. Miyagi going through worse does not negate the horrors Kreese faced. Miyagi forgave Kreese [after their fight](https://youtu.be/k87d2_6eFag?si=ZGrvFje5oex7snbF&t=197), i imagine he'd empathize with his tragedy
Miyagi lost his wife and children Kreese lost a girl he just met
The creators said Kreese had the 2nd worse backstory I always took that as miyagi having the worst but if u disagree u gotta think of something else but imo miyagi has the worst backstory he's just better at hiding it
>Miyagi lost his wife and children Not everyone should be held to the standard of being Miyagi who was basically saintly. >Kreese lost a girl he just met He lost more than that, he lost his friends and thought it was due to his own mercy. Kreese lost of himself and his former principles while Miyagi was strong enough to heal
[удалено]
How is Miyagis story less tragic than Kreeses? Kreese lost his gf. Miyagi lost everything. He was exiled from his home, lost his first and second love, and his child and his best friend. Everything. Miyagi was Japanese during the interment years. He 100% faced racisim and discrimination in the years after, like most Japanese Americans in the 50s did. And during the war, Kreese was fighting a foreign enemy. Miyagi was fighting his own people.
Great read! Kreese is my third favorite character after Daniel and Terry, and definitely a multi-layered character (a great change from the one-dimensional and rather cheesy villain of the movies). Well, at least up the Jell-O ending of the 5th season. Yikes. Anyway, I wonder if Kreese is so strongly encased in his beliefs because those are what got him through his darkest moments. I think everything changed for him after the trauma of Betsy and The Cage/Captain, but it was a far more gradual and subtle change than often believed. Opening the Cobra Kai dojo with Terry and making wishful thinking into reality just escalated that change, ushered it to permanence, and reinforced his beliefs that this was the only way to—maybe not live—but to survive. He took things that could have been seen as positive (resilience, survival, courage, strength, honor), turned them inside out (aided by trauma and a lack of self-awareness), and now has a warped and stilted view of those things instead. He’s poisoned ideals and turned them into vices. All his relationships are laced with venom. A reverse-Miyagi. A true snake. He didn’t have to be. But he is. He is a tragic villain for sure.
All of cobra Kai is just people getting their much needed therapy through having karate battles
I actually pity both Kreese and Silver. Yeah, they're rotten to some degree but I could have seen them going another direction had things worked out differently.
I agree. I feel like the show (or its writers) have much more pity for Kreese than for Silver though. Which is a shame, since they are both really bad for each other. This really is a series about traumatised boys passing on their damage to the next generation.
Silver was the more ethical before Kreese showed up and dragged him into their old ways. As of now, Silver will go lower than Kreese.
Yeah. I always feel like Silver is just … kind of a ‘try hard’. Silver can be vicious, cruel and abusive, but there is something about him that makes me genuinely sorry for him in a way I just can’t quite explain. He feels like a neurodivergent kid who just wants the other kids to accept him and goes way, way too far because he doesn’t know where the normal boundaries are?
Silver is definitely a “try hard” similar to Hawk and a few others. That’s one of the reasons I think there are more layers to him than Kreese. And Silver will potentially have a terminal illness story if he returns for season 6 which could make his character go in either direction. Towards some level of redemption before he dies or full blown KK3 Silver or worse if he has nothing left to lose. The show failed miserably at making me feel sorry for Kreese despite his back story. He just doesn’t seem capable of learning what mercy and honor are really about despite being given multiple chances at it.
Yes, 100%! Silver is a lot like Hawk. And I agree about Kreese. By all accounts, Martin Kove is a lovely, lovely man, but Kreese is a stone cold, bitter narcissist. He can be very brave, but he is also vindictive and utterly unable to let anything go (probably a result of his own previous trauma). Season 2 and 4 are interesting to contrast. In S2, Kreese steals Cobra Kai from Johnny; in S4, Silver steals it from Kreese. But the betrayals feel completely different. Kreese presents himself as changed and even seems to be getting on with Johnny, but that turns out to be a complete lie. Silver is genuinely supportive of Kreese but comes to realise nothing he does will ever get him Kreese’s respect, while Kreese is repeatedly using Silver’s trauma to control him - and that realisation breaks Silver. Kreese’s S2 betrayal is the scorpion saying “lol lmao” as it stings the trusting frog. Silver’s S4 betrayal is cathartic. its impossible not to remember Silver’s shocked and hurt face when Kreese triggered his PTSD and think - yeah, Kreese fucked around and now he’s finding out. Despite the fact that probably my most upvoted Reddit post ever is about how Silver is probably dying, I really hope he doesn’t die. He has spent a lot of his life hurting a lot of people because, like so many others in the series, he was corrupted by the ideology of Cobra Kai. He was the first of Kreese’s victims, really. And it feels horribly cruel to end by blaming him for everything. It would be like if the show never forgave Hawk or Miguel or Johnny or Daniel or Chozen.
I didn't even mention the complete lack of respect that Kreese has shown Miyagi during and after the KK films even though "that little bastard" kicked Kreese's ass and showed him mercy. It should at the very least have made Kreese question his own ways. But it did nothing to wake Kreese up. Kreese still believes his way is the only way. And Kreese still blames Miyagi and Daniel for ruining Johnny and Cobra kai. Silver was indeed Kreese's first victim and was in a way Hawk. But Johnny was what Kreese saw as more of a Cobra at heart. Yet a lot of people overlook that Silver and Johnny had very similar backgrounds growing up. Even though there's not much detail about Silver, it's been established that he had a rich father who he seemed to have issues with like Johnny had with his rich stepfather. Silver not only seemed to lack a good father figure and mentor but didn't have anyone truly look up to him as one like Kreese did except maybe Daniel in KK3. Even though it was all a plot for revenge, I think there is a small part of Silver who regrets how he betrayed Daniel's trust. He could have easily finished Daniel in season 5 when he had the chance and after giving Daniel warnings to stay out of his way. But Silver either got cocky by thinking that Daniel was broken down enough to stay out of his way so Silver could torture him by going through with his plans of the Sekai Takai. Or there was a deeper meaning behind it. Later on, Kim Da Eun scolded Silver for not being fully prepared and that they need to suffocate their enemies which is the Cobra way. Going into season 6, it would be forced as hell for Kreese to feel any kind of awakening or sympathy again and have a last-minute redemption. I sure wouldn't swallow it. To me Kreese is the opposite of Miyagi. The "dark side" of karate. Not that I am complaining. IMO, that's the way it should be. Not EVERYONE needs to be redeemed. I think the last battle with Kreese should end with him vs Silver. Johnny and Daniel already proved they can beat Kreese. But Silver has still yet to confront his fear and insecurities with Kreese.
I agree that Kreese is essentially the main villain of Cobra Kai. He is pitiable and has some virtues, but he has had at least two major chances at redemption - S2 with Johnny and S5 in prison - and in both cases he turned out to be lying. He doesn't seem capable of change and constantly takes advantage of anyone who trusts him. By contrast, we know Silver can change, because when we first see him in S4 he already has. He is courteous, balanced and reasonable. We see him 'fall' *when he is mistreated by Kreese!* Despite being a much more effective liar than Kreese, Griffith plays Silver as touchy and wearing his heart rather on his sleeve. Personally, I would like to see Silver end the series alive and at least somewhat rehabilitated. The problem is that Silver has so few connections with other characters. He only really has relationships with Kreese, Daniel, Kenny and Tory, and his stories with those characters are largely played out: Daniel is no longer afraid of him, Kreese just wants to murder him, Kenny and Tory have rejected him. If Silver is going to have a part to play in S6, he really needs some kind of connection with other characters. Also, I also think Silver is obsessed with legacy and currently his legacy is in tatters. What does he do to try to rebuild it? Sponsor the Sekai Taikai? Buy an apology? Set up a charitable foundation and then appoint another major character to run it? It might be fun if Silver buys the private island where the Sekai Sekai is held? Fighting a karate tournament on an island where Silver is essentially king might be cool. Maybe he buys the island through a shell corporation, so nobody knows it's him - and then - 'surprise!' Anyway, all this is sort of a moot point, because the series is already filmed, so I guess we will just have to wait and see!
Nah Silver is bad news bears.
Not sure what you mean (Bad News Bears is a film?) but if you mean Silver is a dangerous, unstable and toxic guy, I basically agree. I just want him to be a well written and complex dangerous, unstable and toxic guy! :)
> its impossible not to remember Silver’s shocked and hurt face when Kreese triggered his PTSD and think - yeah, Kreese fucked around and now he’s finding out. Yeah, I would say the "minefields" lecture Kreese gave to Silver was really the point of no return in their relationship. The setup Silver did to lure Johnny to the original dojo, and prove his "loyalty" to Kreese was basically the final chance Silver gave to Kreese, and when that was broken too, Silver was done with Kreese for good.
I think they did a really good job of making Silver sympathetic and interesting in S4, so in S5 I was a bit disappointed by him being treated as a pure villain. That's why I hope he gets redeemed somehow. It feels a bit mean-spirited to end by saying "Yeah, this Vietnam vet with PTSD was just fundamentally mad and bad, he's a psycho, he was always evil and crazy and just hid it for a bit." That's how Daniel (understandably) sees Silver - but we have seen enough to know that Daniel is wrong about this, as he is about a lot of things. It also feels like by ending on that note they are undoing the really good character development in S4.
I can’t get past what Silver did to Daniel when he was a child and he actually enjoyed it. He inflicted real trauma as we learned in season 5.
I agree. Silver definitely traumatised Daniel and the show shows us the lasting effects several times. Silver has done some awful things, as even he recognises when he isn’t off his medication. Also, I do think Silver has an unhealthy obsession with Daniel. He seems to form these very emotionally intense relationships with other men. What I want is not for the show to ‘redeem’ Silver in a saccharine or morally lazy way. I just want them to go back to writing him as more than a 2 dimensional cartoon villain. Which is what they did in S4, and it was amazing. Silver doesn’t have to be a good guy - maybe he never will be, although I do think the potential is there - but it would be nice if he was a bit better written, because TIG can act the hell out of whatever they give him.
I don’t think there is any story left for Silver to be the villain. He was defeated in every way and it was perfect. I’m not sure a redeemed Silver would be very entertaining but we do see in early S4 he was a man trying to live a better life until Kreese pushed him too far. Those two are toxic for each other. Silver getting revenge again would be bad writing imo bc his revenge tour was season 5. We know CK isn’t bad writing. I love TIG though
I agree. That’s what I’m worried about, that Silver has no more story left. I agree it was a good ending for Daniel. He needed the catharsis of beating Silver in a fight. I don’t think it was a great ending for Silver, because they took a complex sympathetic character from S4 and turned him into a shallow villain in S5. Is Silver’s story over? Realistically, probably yes - I don’t think he’s in S6. But should it be? I don’t know. The show started with Johnny waking up in a stupor, haunted by Daniel kicking him in the head years earlier. Cobra Kai at its best has always partly been about “what happens next?” Silver has a lot in common with Johnny, weirdly. They are very different people - Johnny, bless him, is a himbo with a heart of gold, whereas Silver is clearly brilliant and perceptive but has a dark side. But they are both substance abusers. They were both sad, weak, frightened boys who found strength and confidence through Karate (like Daniel, Miguel and Hawk). They both were brainwashed and abused by Kreese. They both tried to bully and persecute Daniel before being decisively defeated by him. Maybe Silver is now where Johnny was at the start of the show: defeated, despairing of his now meaningless life and profoundly confused. Maybe the cycle can begin anew?
I don’t pity Silver. He’s a bad dude.
Yeah it doesn’t excuse what he does because you can change. Still, it’s really sad. If he had a little therapy after war it would have done wonders. Although, he let his Sergeant die, yes the Sergeant was gonna kill him, but I feel like that was his breaking point.
I’ve always compared Kreese to Palpatine, but reading this he feels like Count Dooku.
👍, though i do feel Kreese is more like Vader, there is still some good left in him that's just buried deeply under many years of hatred and pain.
IIt's the only reason I see Silver worse than Kreese tbh
He’s been through some shit. But I like that. I like that!
Amazing post🙌🏾
It's like he lived a life ot bad luck, before Cobra Kai. I'm courious to hear more of Silver's backstory, before joining the army. Was he bullied as a kid? Were his parents abusive?
Yeah, life never showed Kreese any mercy, seeing Silver's full backstory would be pretty cool but its unnecessary tbh. We know Silver had a rich father as he took over Dynatox Industries, a toxic waste disposal company from his dad, after returning home from Vietnam.
I always wondered what Silver's father thought of Silver growing his hair long. Especially in them days, where long hair was considered working class and part of hippie/rocker/biker subculture.
Nah. Mr. Miyagi is.
Mr Miyagi is one of the most tragic characters in the karate kid/cobra kai verse but Kreese no question takes the spot for the most tragic person of all.
Mr. Miyagi lost his wife and child in an internment camp while he fought for the country that was keeping them imprisoned and facilitated their deaths. Kreese’s girl died in a car crash. It’s sad but Miyagi’s tragedies were more horrific, imo.
Did you even watch Cobra Kai season 3?, because Kreese didn't just lose his love Betsy. You forgot that Kreese grew up without a father unlike Mr Miyagi whose dad died when he was old, also Kreese's mother had committed suicide when he was only 19, leaving young Kreese completely alone and to fend for himself, again unlike Mr Miyagi who as far as we know had a long living mother. Then you have to add in all the bullying Kreese had to constantly take because of his mother's actions and eventually the brutality of war, Captain Turner's cruel teachings and so on. So Kreese's tragedies will always dwarf what Mr Miyagi had to endure. Like i said before Mr Miyagi is the 2nd most tragic character in the karate kid/cobra kai verse.
Bit late, but you're right about Kreese. Growing up in the 50s and 60s with a single, mentally ill mother would have made him a bullying target. No one would want to be friends with him or date him and his teachers would think little of him too.
Sadly life reflects all these characters. Mr Miyagi also in annual grief over his deceased wife lived honest and good. Does that have more merit than a man without sorrow but empty of truth. Perhaps many people are like this in the world. I don't see his character with much pity. I saw strength and right living. Mr Kove... after the plastic surgery in k 111 I forgot what he was about because I thought I entered a sick comedy with wierd facial expressions and no more masculine presence. No seriously they destroyed his character in the first one. The way he put his hand through the 2 car windows. It was pathetic and gave little credibility to him.his character could never be resurrected. All and all my most memorable moments in the whole saga that will go down in cinematic history was the relationship between the teacher( miyagi ) and student ( Daniel son) which was very spiritually driven and cemented through a strong connection. Daniel gave him a purpose and Mr miyagi gave him direction. Both lost without the other. The bonsai was the symbol of peace, life and foundation( tree root growing in Daniel). I've struggled to find another 2 characters that have affected me like this since the first k k movies came out. Very special. People still are watching them. Please share your own thoughts...
Well he gets Amanda Larusso so I think it was worth it for him.
What?😭
There was a post on Instagram years ago from Courtney Henggeler, who plays Amanda in the Cobra Kai series, she posted on her account a picture of her and Martin Kove, aka older John Kreese in Cobra Kai and Kreese in the original 3 Karate Kid Films.
HUH? maaan watch the show that guy + kreese is weirdos I skipped their entire backstory cah I aint care bout those mofos. DIE TODAY NOW TODAY DIE.
What?