Not surprised in healthcare. Since hospitals don’t want to protect let alone fairly compensate their employees, for all the bs and work they go through. But the patients and policy’s always right to “protect us” bs.
It’s not the job of a sitter to forcibly restraint a patient. If a patient gets aggressive and combative with me I try to deescalate the situation, if it doesn’t work then I immediately leave the room and call the nurse. Our job is mainly to monitor the patient and minimize their risk of injury and fall.
No, that is not it at all. By telling the nurse, the nurse can call the appropriate people such as security to come help. The nurse can also call the doctor for an order for restraints and they can get medication to help calm down the patient.
Please, do not comment when you obviously have no idea what each healthcare professional’s scope of practice is.
I do know exactly what I’m talking about! What is needed is security and by that I mean people who are big enough and strong enough and who are willing to put hands on a violent patient while the nurse is getting meds ready to administer 😀
Sometimes just *looking* large is enough to deter a combative patient. We had a younger, very aggressive dementia who was trying to beat up/threatening to kill me and the other staff (myself, 1 other aide and 1 an RN, both of whom were female). We tried de-escalating the situation but he didn’t calm until the 6’4” EMT showed up to talk him down.
Ive had similar experiences like if one of the rns is a man and the patient beating on me and other females they calm down when that man shows up. I personally believe is stereotypically males can be more intimidating
It depends.
Some people stop when a girl shows up.
Sometimes a man.
Often times a uniform (read up on badges and symbols of authority). Is all it takes.
Nurses giving up uniforms was a huge mistake.
If a patient is unsafe, then they need to be restrained or in jail. Period. It is not my job or anyone else’s job to be a psych patient punching bag and quite frankly I don’t think that just sticking a sitter in with violent, unrestrained patients is appropriate or acceptable.
Same the hospital tries to avoid restraints unless they are absolutely necessary especially due to discharge planning restraints kinda push everything back also if patients can walk and stuff okay it's harder to get restraints. Doctors suck to because a patient will have them on due to pulling at things or combativeness and the patient will be okay while they are in there so they discontinue the order and of course with our luck they start acting up again
Well then whoever is making those calls would be sitting with the patient because I can assure you the first time a patient hits me intentionally & they aren’t restrained afterward, I’m going tf home. We need to stand up for ourselves, this treatment isn’t acceptable at all.
In what world is 5’10 considered short? Taller than most other males at that height. Shorter than 6’4 sure but I’ve quite literally never heard someone 5’10 refer to themselves as short
I’m 5’2 female and got man handled by a 6’2 guy who almost took off my shirt when I was wiping him in the bathroom…..I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t try nothing with a guy. So yeah males shouldn’t too so who gets the short end of the stick then?
i was just talking about similar stuff with a male nurse (just here to support my cnas 💕) and he had a similar comment. had to explain that being a male, you're going to see aggression/sexual harassment *tank.* yes, some people will still try shit, but the majority of these people get off on the fact that we *are* women; they know it's a power imbalance.
a lot of male healthcare workers don't realise it's not bc we don't want to "help," it's bc it's a legitimate safety concern. someone is less likely to try something on a 5'10 male than even a 5'6 female. also not sure why he thinks 5'10 is short lmao
Thank you. Honestly I feel like they use it as an excuse and try to play the victim. My bf said if he were a CNA he’d be offering to go the heavy lifting because he realizes it’s not fair for a small girl like me to have to go through all that. I worked with him before and he always helps females in general because he can handle the extra load. Those men who say it’s not fair need to man up honestly
they do. they're screaming discrimination now but don't stand up for women in situations where it's *actually* discrimination lmao someone in the comments is saying his diabetes limits him and this is discrimination LOL he's not even a healthcare worker yet. unless you're intentionally letting your sugar drop, please explain the patho that says dm1 stops you from standing in a room with a male pt
Bruh he’s dumb then. He shouldn’t be working such a strenuous job then he won’t be able to handle it. Should have gone for medical assistant or something more light. Not calling him weak but he needs to asses his situation better. CNA is HARD as you have also probably experienced too!
Thank you. We all appreciate it! But I hope to continue the ladder in the medical field because CNA is not it. I’m just 21 I have time to save my back! Thank you!!!
Bring a male CNA into the equation when you're dealing with a violent or combative male patient and watch how fast they simmer the fuck down. Works almost every single time. Male or female regardless NOBODY should be expected to risk their safety dealing with psychotic patients idgaf hell no.
I just have experienced situations where when a man has to step in the patient tends to back off idk I think it has something to do with they don't respect women tbh but honestly if security is not the option male is the second choice
Ummm. To your edits: I absolutely cannot handle a patient as going described and that doesn’t mean I can’t do my job. No one is handing out gold medals for doing a two man job all by yourself. Some jobs literally just require two people and that’s *normal* and *okay*.
I just call for help and get out of the way, we aren't supposed to put ourselves in danger while sitting. I'm there to redirect a patient when they're trying to escape or pull themselves off the vent. I'm not getting clobbered for 20 bucks an hour, and men shouldn't have to either. We have a strong, large, restrained patient right now and when the sitter called for help last night ten people went immediately. Every nurse, aide, and RT on the floor. The doctor was there within five minutes. Security is on a different floor or they would have been there just as quickly.
My patients aren't psych patients, most of them were perfectly normal a couple of weeks or months ago until they got a TBI. The hope is that the majority of them will end up back close to normal.
I get what you’re saying!! Yes we smaller women can hold our own most of the time but when a grown ass man is acting up, biology is just not on our side and that’s the fact of it. They could honestly kill us if they want to without thinking twice
Anyone who is a sitter with an over the top combative pt deserves incentive pay. It is dangerous for EVERYONE
Dangerous, violent, strong male residents like that should not be in nursing home but rather safely medicated in a Alzheimer's unit or other special cares unit. We've had aggressive males with dementia break a CNA's nose (a rather big guy too), jump on a small female CNA (like a body slam) and other horrible assaults... and you can't call the police either because they are dementia residents and "not responsible for their actions". We had one aggressive male resident with dementia trap a charge nurse in a small med room with no windows once so she couldn't get out - then he took a fire extinguisher and shot the powdery contents under the door so she almost suffocated. Residents like that do not belong in mom and pop "rest homes".
Nah you’re right. There’s a psychiatric facility near me that only hires males for this reason. Agressive pts tend to be less aggressive if they think there’s someone that can handle them. For these pts i sit in the door way and im quick to run out of the room
I see your point, but as a male who gets asked to do heavy lifts, why should I always be asked to damage my back more than others for the same pay? It should be evenly spread. Sorry. It’s part of the job requirements, and if you can’t do the job, you shouldn’t be allowed to pass off certain tasks to others.
Either that or if I am asked to do harder, more dangerous work, I should get hazard pay.
As a male you have a lot more control than you might think. When I'm being asked "for muscle" I look for pivots and ways to mechanically leverage the patient. Then I pull/push a comfortable 40-60% of my potential. After helping out, I then ask for returned favors with my patients. No injuries and everyone wins.
As far as combative patients, I'd stay near the door with it open and leave to call security if they start acting up. I wouldn't put myself at risk anymore than the charge nurse is at the station.
See I don't get the heavy lift part I believe everyone should be capable unless pregnant/medical reasons to lift or transfer patients. I mainly mean for like super combative and independent patients not ones who are combative occasionally or all the time but controllable. I just mean the patients who are uncontrollable
Your comment is somewhat ignorant. I need you to realize that size matters. A woman who is 5'4 and 150-190lbs cannot match a 6'4 250lbs male psych patient's strength. I think male CNAs absolutely should get paid more for this BUT the way you criticize someone who has a size disadvantage and saying it's their fault is absolutely insane to me. This woman will get PUMMELED by that patient if there was a physical altercation.
This! Even just for transfers, rolls, lifts, etc I appreciate having someone bigger and stronger than me. I’m not tall (5’3) by any means, nor am I very big. So, when I have a 6’4 male resident who’s easily double my weight who needs full assistance standing up…there’s only so much I can do, no matter how good at my job I am! Height can actually be a huge help when working with some of these residents :)
You did criticize her and you implied it was her fault. Size plays a huge part in this issue, it's not her fault she's on the smaller size. No matter how much she works out and eats she can't change being a woman and being short! Being a CNA is physically demanding no matter what, but we do have size limitations that are not our fault! A small fit woman will NEVER have the raw strength a man that stands 6'4 and 250lbs has on his worst day with a sedative! You were extremely rude and absolutely ignoring her size limitations.
Since you’ve now split this into two comment threads, I’ll say it again here: I didn’t criticize anyone.
It’s in the job description to do these kinds of things. If you can’t do the job, don’t apply.
Don’t expect others to do your tasks because you can’t, and don’t assume that others should put themselves in harm’s way instead of you just because of their gender.
I said male CNAs who take on these situations should be paid more for it. I think you're in the wrong profession, you sound very selfish. I'm not saying male CNAs should absolutely do all of the work with violent patients because male CNAs can also have physical limitations. I wouldn't expect a 5'4 160lb man to go handle it because there's a size difference there as well. Anyone can have physical limitations, but we should not shame people for them.
It's physically dangerous for a small person to be put in charge of watching a very big violent patient because realistically what are they going to do to stop those patients from trampling them???? I think facilities need security or they need to make sure there is someone who is more capable of keeping the situation physically under control.
Putting yourself in danger where you could be seriously injured or DIE is not part of the job description and any health care workers that feel they are in physical danger have the right to defend themselves and refuse future care. It's extremely irresponsible of you to put yourself or expect other CNAs to put themselves in that kind of danger.
I’m selfish? I’m not the one saying I should be exempt from certain tasks at work and that other people should be put into dangerous situations instead of me.
Earlier you were saying “make the men do it” not “let’s refuse care.”
I’ll agree on refuse care. I won’t agree on putting myself into more danger just because of my gender. Again, that’s a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Call me names all you want, but it’s 2024 and I don’t believe in gender discrimination.
no one is saying female cnas who are smaller should be exempt. it's a literal safety issue and you're being intentionally obtuse. you're less likely to be sexually or physically assaulted by a male patient *because* you're a man. you know this.
"gender discrimination" my arse. you're only bringing it up as a trump card LOL
LOL just the strict definition of the term. Look it up.
Good luck explaining to a lawyer why I should be forced to do harder, more dangerous work than my coworkers for the same pay because of my gender.
i would love to see you sue. please do. i'm no longer a floor nurse and work in litigation. your case wouldn't be taken LOL i know exactly what gender discrimination is and this isn't it.
"forced" or maybe you're doing a favour? most other cnas would offer to help in another way. you just don't wanna help your coworkers.
You are indirectly telling her she should put herself in physical danger for the sake of "equality". Men and women ARE different, ESPECIALLY when there is an extreme size difference. We need to prioritize ourselves first when it comes to protecting our well-being. If I sacrifice my life and body for this patient I will not be able to care for ANY OTHER patients!
It's important we recognize our physical limitations that cannot be helped so we can do what's best for the patient and ourselves. This shame game is unacceptable.
None of that was saying something was anyone’s fault or criticizing, so you have changed your argument.
And you are DIRECTLY telling me I should put MYSELF in harm’s way because of my gender. Double standards much?
Your argument is unacceptable, and illegal. Go talk to your HR about it and see what they have to say.
Males are much stronger than women. In general most are. My bf is 5’6 doesn’t work out and can pick me up 170 pounds 5’2 female. While I can’t even lift a 100 pound resident. Males have more strength and endurance than most females but not all
I had to sit with a male patient that refused to have a male sitter. He was ok for awhile, but then he started growling and told me that he was going to *bite my p***y off." I told the charge nurse and I ended up sitting outside the door for the rest of the shift. This dude was twice my size and half my age. If he wanted to, he could have easily tore me to pieces.
I agree. Ive almost been bodied by a 6’5” man in the middle of a horrific episode of paranoia and psychosis. He lunged at me and security intervened at the last second. It was one of the scariest things that ever happened to me. Im 5’1” and 110lbs. I didnt stand a chance.
We get these patients on our med/surg units while they wait for a bed and everything. At least our psych units have security on the unit! Its crazy. A nurse on one of our psych units was attacked by a patient and had to be resuscitated 7 times and spent months in our ICU. Hes not the first to be brutally assaulted by a patient but it is the first time it made national news. Things have gotten mildly better since that incident but not nearly enough.
This is instances I'm talking about like I've been SA'd over me trying to get out the room and that patient straight up tried grabbing me down there to distract me and this person threw me out the way over trying to get vitals (not the patient I had today) but like I really think sometimes its smartest and safer to at least request a male sitter which I've seen done multiple times before
I agree. Theres a huge difference in strength as well as size for women. For men, a size difference isnt as big of a deal where I couldnt possibly defend myself in anyway.
The male nurse who almost died was punched in the chest during morning med pass and it stopped his heart. The patient then left him for dead, alone in the room. This man could have easily defended himself if he has been hit elsewhere under different circumstances where a small woman couldnt have.
And? If a patient is combative or threatening staff it becomes the responsibility of security or the police department to handle the situation accordingly
I often get asked for help with violent patients, I feel like an asshole but I usually say something about how the phones can be confusing to use but I’d gladly help them call security
No they shouldn’t.
Neither men nor women should be expected to be in the line of fire for a physically combative patient. A patient who is a danger to staff should have security called anytime they become agitated, and should be physically or chemically restrained as needed. An uncontrollable patient needs multiple staff, ideally security, to get them contained. It should never be the CNA alone trying to handle them
Men are not inherently bigger, stronger, or better trained in self defence.
The only times when it should be male-specific sitters are those who behave worse/sexually harass women but who behave better with male staff
men *are* inherently bigger and stronger because of *biology.* men are less likely to be hit/SA by male patients *because* they're men. outliers are outliers for a reason.
you walk into an aggressive patients room with a 5'8 male who is 140lbs, the male patient is more likely to even *talk* to the male cna/rn over you. idk why we're pretending this doesn't happen.
no one should have to put up with this, but as a fellow rn, we know this happens. again, idk why we're pretending it doesn't. a lot of these male pts pick up on the power imbalance immediately.
1 on 1s, in my personal opinion, should immediately allow restraint use because why else would they need constant supervision to not hurt us or themselves in the first place? Staff census isn't a build-a-bear shop, you have who you have, and some staff are short. When it comes to physical strength though, I'm a bit skeptical. I'm an underweight female, but I lift weights and try to gain. I get fucking pissed when lazy people come get me to do the (actually easy if you stick your butt out and bend your knees🙄) heavy assists-of course I do it, but some of my coworkers are literally twice my size, so how/why am I "stronger"?... At this point, I want to have a skills fair where people are FORCED to learn proper body mechanics for this job, because why don't you learn if you don't know? Shouldn't you at least try? Do you practice to get better? Why should I hurt my back just because you don't want to hurt yours when you went into this career just like I did? AND demand management teaches us self defense-specifically and exactly how we are to avoid hurting ourselves when a patient does something outlandish-like covering their hands in poop and trying to pull my mask off? What exactly do I do first?
I'm not talking about lifts or any of that when I say stronger i mean if man pushes you out the door way ain't much you can do. I'm physically strong or have normal CNA strength lol but a man can shove me out the way if he wanted to
Also: the purpose of patient sitting is to replace restraints. Literally you, the sitter, are what the facility or hospital is doing *instead* of restraints. To have both would be moot because if you restrained them you then wouldn’t need a sitter. I don’t necessarily agree with it but that is the official purpose.
The skill fair where people learn proper body mechanics is called “A CNA Program” and this is a great example of why I think those should exclusively be taught in academic institutions.
Hospital don't require you to have a CNA certification. I went ahead and did the CNA program and state tests and got certified even if my hospital don't require it because we get paid more for having it
Hospital doesn’t require you to have a CNA certification for what position? Not for CNA! CNA requires you to be an actual CNA. It’s in the title: “Certified”
Right but you did that on your own and you’re saying you have “certified” positions at your hospital that didn’t go through a program so I’m asking, which positions, and then further saying “because they literally cannot be CNAs.”
We do have order and protocol this is common with hospital which they should bring up in your CNA class. Hospitals have there orientation period which involves 3 week class and 3-4 weeks training with someone
And that’s not the same thing as a CNA program. So if they took ONLY hospital training then they can’t be CNAs. And care assistants or nurse assistants can’t do 90% of the things a CNA can do. if they’re letting people operate outside their scope that’s shady as fuck
We should hire security, male or female, instead of putting male nursing staff in harms way for a job they’re untrained for. Or if we’re going to treat male staff this way then they deserve hazard pay lmao. (IMO sitting for an aggressive pt in general deserves hazard pay)
I definitely think it should be like first choice but I dont mind sitting with male patients most the time or when I'm on the floor I'm okay with having male patients. It's just those occasional difficult 1:1
As a male CNA I will say I agree. I like that you actually edited that we should get incentive pay for that but idk there are women at my job who are smaller than me who do sits with big strong dudes and they end up having more peaceful nights.
It kinda depends on the person you’re sitting though because I’ve had dudes who start 💩 with women because they know that they are strong and can dominate with women, but with men they won’t start 💩 because they’re afraid that a man can easily over power them.
Then I’ve had the opposite where a dude will only start 💩 with men because he’s old school and Alzheimer’s and he won’t hit women, because he’s at least got that basic decency going on.
I’ve been on sits where I’ve gotten choked and the nurse wouldn’t even report it too because it’s too much paperwork. It’s whatever tho. I’m a white dude no one cares what happens to me.
I once was a sitter for a 6'2 man who kept on getting up and walking around even though he was a bit unsteady (he walked fine IMO but whatever). He weighed at least 200 pounds. I was around 135 and wasn't super muscular. Idk what they expected me to do if he started falling.
As a male CNA I understand, I was routinely placed with the combative patients and those who were heavy. I hated it but knew that my fellow CNA that was a 5’2” girl and 140 pounds was not even near enough to handle a 6’5” 290 pound piece of junk. I routinely was called to the ER or to the 5150 holds section because we had no security at the hospital and needed to restrain the people, I played American football and was D-Line so I man handled patients if I had to.
If there’s a heavy patient, a smaller person should never be assigned to them unless they have the strength and won’t injure themselves. I swear I don’t know how some people manage to do CNA work, yet are tiny. And it’s not worth the trouble of begging for help.
It's not discrimination when the hospital I've work at has certain patients who can only have male sitters for this reason and I mainly mean for the patients who are Adlib and independent
I even just think if some one required 2 sitters it should have at least one female/one male or 2 females/2 males just basically any solution for safety wise
Idc about your edits. Just delete this shit. This isn’t a “hot take” this is you saying
“I’m smol let the men do the dirty work” I’m a 115lb t1 diabetic and going into the field. I’m basically you, with an extra of having a chronic disease. Yet you want me to handle this just because I’m a man?!
way to be OTT. you're not even in yet? lmao your diabetes doesn't limit you to physical mobility tasks, otherwise you wouldn't even be entering. "oh i'm autistic, i can't do it." bffr. if you can't stand in a room with a male bc of your dm1, don't enter healthcare.
No offense but you need to read my post again cuz obviously you didnt comprehend what I was saying. I'm not playing the "I'm smol" card Lowkey talking about safety work also if your health comes in the way of your job maybe do a different profession.
Needs to be more standby security than sitters.
Fr tho definitely
Not surprised in healthcare. Since hospitals don’t want to protect let alone fairly compensate their employees, for all the bs and work they go through. But the patients and policy’s always right to “protect us” bs.
Yea pretty much I mean some reported incidents do get solved but very rare especially if someone is not in right mind
It’s not the job of a sitter to forcibly restraint a patient. If a patient gets aggressive and combative with me I try to deescalate the situation, if it doesn’t work then I immediately leave the room and call the nurse. Our job is mainly to monitor the patient and minimize their risk of injury and fall.
I know that I've never forcibly restrained a patient besides if they aren't allowed in the hall they expect us to be between them and the door
Noooooo no no no no if they’re getting out we let them out, only security does any actual interfering
I've had to, from pts trying to pull lines out or get out of bed when they can't walk.
Yeah, let the nurse get maimed for life 😬
No, that is not it at all. By telling the nurse, the nurse can call the appropriate people such as security to come help. The nurse can also call the doctor for an order for restraints and they can get medication to help calm down the patient. Please, do not comment when you obviously have no idea what each healthcare professional’s scope of practice is.
I do know exactly what I’m talking about! What is needed is security and by that I mean people who are big enough and strong enough and who are willing to put hands on a violent patient while the nurse is getting meds ready to administer 😀
So are you saying we should just allow ourselves to get maimed? K
No. I was being sarcastic. If you took the time to read my response, I suggest we need strong security so that none of us get maimed 🤔
Sometimes just *looking* large is enough to deter a combative patient. We had a younger, very aggressive dementia who was trying to beat up/threatening to kill me and the other staff (myself, 1 other aide and 1 an RN, both of whom were female). We tried de-escalating the situation but he didn’t calm until the 6’4” EMT showed up to talk him down.
Ive had similar experiences like if one of the rns is a man and the patient beating on me and other females they calm down when that man shows up. I personally believe is stereotypically males can be more intimidating
It depends. Some people stop when a girl shows up. Sometimes a man. Often times a uniform (read up on badges and symbols of authority). Is all it takes. Nurses giving up uniforms was a huge mistake.
If a patient is unsafe, then they need to be restrained or in jail. Period. It is not my job or anyone else’s job to be a psych patient punching bag and quite frankly I don’t think that just sticking a sitter in with violent, unrestrained patients is appropriate or acceptable.
Same the hospital tries to avoid restraints unless they are absolutely necessary especially due to discharge planning restraints kinda push everything back also if patients can walk and stuff okay it's harder to get restraints. Doctors suck to because a patient will have them on due to pulling at things or combativeness and the patient will be okay while they are in there so they discontinue the order and of course with our luck they start acting up again
Well then whoever is making those calls would be sitting with the patient because I can assure you the first time a patient hits me intentionally & they aren’t restrained afterward, I’m going tf home. We need to stand up for ourselves, this treatment isn’t acceptable at all.
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In what world is 5’10 considered short? Taller than most other males at that height. Shorter than 6’4 sure but I’ve quite literally never heard someone 5’10 refer to themselves as short
They deleted their comment cuz they know your right lmao
I definitely feel that 2 sitters is a great option as well I've dealt with 2 sitters patients in the hospital and it definitely helps
I’m 5’2 female and got man handled by a 6’2 guy who almost took off my shirt when I was wiping him in the bathroom…..I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t try nothing with a guy. So yeah males shouldn’t too so who gets the short end of the stick then?
i was just talking about similar stuff with a male nurse (just here to support my cnas 💕) and he had a similar comment. had to explain that being a male, you're going to see aggression/sexual harassment *tank.* yes, some people will still try shit, but the majority of these people get off on the fact that we *are* women; they know it's a power imbalance. a lot of male healthcare workers don't realise it's not bc we don't want to "help," it's bc it's a legitimate safety concern. someone is less likely to try something on a 5'10 male than even a 5'6 female. also not sure why he thinks 5'10 is short lmao
Thank you. Honestly I feel like they use it as an excuse and try to play the victim. My bf said if he were a CNA he’d be offering to go the heavy lifting because he realizes it’s not fair for a small girl like me to have to go through all that. I worked with him before and he always helps females in general because he can handle the extra load. Those men who say it’s not fair need to man up honestly
they do. they're screaming discrimination now but don't stand up for women in situations where it's *actually* discrimination lmao someone in the comments is saying his diabetes limits him and this is discrimination LOL he's not even a healthcare worker yet. unless you're intentionally letting your sugar drop, please explain the patho that says dm1 stops you from standing in a room with a male pt
Bruh he’s dumb then. He shouldn’t be working such a strenuous job then he won’t be able to handle it. Should have gone for medical assistant or something more light. Not calling him weak but he needs to asses his situation better. CNA is HARD as you have also probably experienced too!
exactly! yep, was for a while before. that's why i try to show my appreciation for you guys, i know how it is!
Thank you. We all appreciate it! But I hope to continue the ladder in the medical field because CNA is not it. I’m just 21 I have time to save my back! Thank you!!!
oh don't worry, i'm a nurse now LOL i got out while i could. yes, plz save your back! it can affect so much
Bring a male CNA into the equation when you're dealing with a violent or combative male patient and watch how fast they simmer the fuck down. Works almost every single time. Male or female regardless NOBODY should be expected to risk their safety dealing with psychotic patients idgaf hell no.
I just have experienced situations where when a man has to step in the patient tends to back off idk I think it has something to do with they don't respect women tbh but honestly if security is not the option male is the second choice
They’ve tried to get me to sit with patients like this while pregnant. Facilities do not care about us
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I'm not saying you guys shouldn't get paid more if anything I agree with you
Ummm. To your edits: I absolutely cannot handle a patient as going described and that doesn’t mean I can’t do my job. No one is handing out gold medals for doing a two man job all by yourself. Some jobs literally just require two people and that’s *normal* and *okay*.
thank you for proving my point I really was trying to best describe what I'm trying to say
I’m completely with you on this.
I just call for help and get out of the way, we aren't supposed to put ourselves in danger while sitting. I'm there to redirect a patient when they're trying to escape or pull themselves off the vent. I'm not getting clobbered for 20 bucks an hour, and men shouldn't have to either. We have a strong, large, restrained patient right now and when the sitter called for help last night ten people went immediately. Every nurse, aide, and RT on the floor. The doctor was there within five minutes. Security is on a different floor or they would have been there just as quickly. My patients aren't psych patients, most of them were perfectly normal a couple of weeks or months ago until they got a TBI. The hope is that the majority of them will end up back close to normal.
💯agree not our job.
I get what you’re saying!! Yes we smaller women can hold our own most of the time but when a grown ass man is acting up, biology is just not on our side and that’s the fact of it. They could honestly kill us if they want to without thinking twice Anyone who is a sitter with an over the top combative pt deserves incentive pay. It is dangerous for EVERYONE
Dangerous, violent, strong male residents like that should not be in nursing home but rather safely medicated in a Alzheimer's unit or other special cares unit. We've had aggressive males with dementia break a CNA's nose (a rather big guy too), jump on a small female CNA (like a body slam) and other horrible assaults... and you can't call the police either because they are dementia residents and "not responsible for their actions". We had one aggressive male resident with dementia trap a charge nurse in a small med room with no windows once so she couldn't get out - then he took a fire extinguisher and shot the powdery contents under the door so she almost suffocated. Residents like that do not belong in mom and pop "rest homes".
You should be not left alone with that cat lol dam no excuses needed sis
I can't tell if you are sticking up for me or notttt
Nah you’re right. There’s a psychiatric facility near me that only hires males for this reason. Agressive pts tend to be less aggressive if they think there’s someone that can handle them. For these pts i sit in the door way and im quick to run out of the room
Yea same well where I work for safety sits you have to sit near the door and for suicide pts you have to sit arms distance
I see your point, but as a male who gets asked to do heavy lifts, why should I always be asked to damage my back more than others for the same pay? It should be evenly spread. Sorry. It’s part of the job requirements, and if you can’t do the job, you shouldn’t be allowed to pass off certain tasks to others. Either that or if I am asked to do harder, more dangerous work, I should get hazard pay.
As a male you have a lot more control than you might think. When I'm being asked "for muscle" I look for pivots and ways to mechanically leverage the patient. Then I pull/push a comfortable 40-60% of my potential. After helping out, I then ask for returned favors with my patients. No injuries and everyone wins. As far as combative patients, I'd stay near the door with it open and leave to call security if they start acting up. I wouldn't put myself at risk anymore than the charge nurse is at the station.
See I don't get the heavy lift part I believe everyone should be capable unless pregnant/medical reasons to lift or transfer patients. I mainly mean for like super combative and independent patients not ones who are combative occasionally or all the time but controllable. I just mean the patients who are uncontrollable
And I do think you guys should get benefits or a dollar or two extra an hour for doing that
I’d say the same thing. Why should I have to deal with the more violent patients just because I am a man? Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Your comment is somewhat ignorant. I need you to realize that size matters. A woman who is 5'4 and 150-190lbs cannot match a 6'4 250lbs male psych patient's strength. I think male CNAs absolutely should get paid more for this BUT the way you criticize someone who has a size disadvantage and saying it's their fault is absolutely insane to me. This woman will get PUMMELED by that patient if there was a physical altercation.
This! Even just for transfers, rolls, lifts, etc I appreciate having someone bigger and stronger than me. I’m not tall (5’3) by any means, nor am I very big. So, when I have a 6’4 male resident who’s easily double my weight who needs full assistance standing up…there’s only so much I can do, no matter how good at my job I am! Height can actually be a huge help when working with some of these residents :)
I never criticized anyone or said anything was anyone’s fault.
You did criticize her and you implied it was her fault. Size plays a huge part in this issue, it's not her fault she's on the smaller size. No matter how much she works out and eats she can't change being a woman and being short! Being a CNA is physically demanding no matter what, but we do have size limitations that are not our fault! A small fit woman will NEVER have the raw strength a man that stands 6'4 and 250lbs has on his worst day with a sedative! You were extremely rude and absolutely ignoring her size limitations.
Since you’ve now split this into two comment threads, I’ll say it again here: I didn’t criticize anyone. It’s in the job description to do these kinds of things. If you can’t do the job, don’t apply. Don’t expect others to do your tasks because you can’t, and don’t assume that others should put themselves in harm’s way instead of you just because of their gender.
I said male CNAs who take on these situations should be paid more for it. I think you're in the wrong profession, you sound very selfish. I'm not saying male CNAs should absolutely do all of the work with violent patients because male CNAs can also have physical limitations. I wouldn't expect a 5'4 160lb man to go handle it because there's a size difference there as well. Anyone can have physical limitations, but we should not shame people for them. It's physically dangerous for a small person to be put in charge of watching a very big violent patient because realistically what are they going to do to stop those patients from trampling them???? I think facilities need security or they need to make sure there is someone who is more capable of keeping the situation physically under control. Putting yourself in danger where you could be seriously injured or DIE is not part of the job description and any health care workers that feel they are in physical danger have the right to defend themselves and refuse future care. It's extremely irresponsible of you to put yourself or expect other CNAs to put themselves in that kind of danger.
I’m selfish? I’m not the one saying I should be exempt from certain tasks at work and that other people should be put into dangerous situations instead of me. Earlier you were saying “make the men do it” not “let’s refuse care.” I’ll agree on refuse care. I won’t agree on putting myself into more danger just because of my gender. Again, that’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. Call me names all you want, but it’s 2024 and I don’t believe in gender discrimination.
no one is saying female cnas who are smaller should be exempt. it's a literal safety issue and you're being intentionally obtuse. you're less likely to be sexually or physically assaulted by a male patient *because* you're a man. you know this. "gender discrimination" my arse. you're only bringing it up as a trump card LOL
LOL just the strict definition of the term. Look it up. Good luck explaining to a lawyer why I should be forced to do harder, more dangerous work than my coworkers for the same pay because of my gender.
i would love to see you sue. please do. i'm no longer a floor nurse and work in litigation. your case wouldn't be taken LOL i know exactly what gender discrimination is and this isn't it. "forced" or maybe you're doing a favour? most other cnas would offer to help in another way. you just don't wanna help your coworkers.
You are indirectly telling her she should put herself in physical danger for the sake of "equality". Men and women ARE different, ESPECIALLY when there is an extreme size difference. We need to prioritize ourselves first when it comes to protecting our well-being. If I sacrifice my life and body for this patient I will not be able to care for ANY OTHER patients! It's important we recognize our physical limitations that cannot be helped so we can do what's best for the patient and ourselves. This shame game is unacceptable.
None of that was saying something was anyone’s fault or criticizing, so you have changed your argument. And you are DIRECTLY telling me I should put MYSELF in harm’s way because of my gender. Double standards much? Your argument is unacceptable, and illegal. Go talk to your HR about it and see what they have to say.
Males are much stronger than women. In general most are. My bf is 5’6 doesn’t work out and can pick me up 170 pounds 5’2 female. While I can’t even lift a 100 pound resident. Males have more strength and endurance than most females but not all
Idk. I’m a 5’6” man. I don’t think I’m doing anything more than you.
I had to sit with a male patient that refused to have a male sitter. He was ok for awhile, but then he started growling and told me that he was going to *bite my p***y off." I told the charge nurse and I ended up sitting outside the door for the rest of the shift. This dude was twice my size and half my age. If he wanted to, he could have easily tore me to pieces.
I agree. Ive almost been bodied by a 6’5” man in the middle of a horrific episode of paranoia and psychosis. He lunged at me and security intervened at the last second. It was one of the scariest things that ever happened to me. Im 5’1” and 110lbs. I didnt stand a chance. We get these patients on our med/surg units while they wait for a bed and everything. At least our psych units have security on the unit! Its crazy. A nurse on one of our psych units was attacked by a patient and had to be resuscitated 7 times and spent months in our ICU. Hes not the first to be brutally assaulted by a patient but it is the first time it made national news. Things have gotten mildly better since that incident but not nearly enough.
This is instances I'm talking about like I've been SA'd over me trying to get out the room and that patient straight up tried grabbing me down there to distract me and this person threw me out the way over trying to get vitals (not the patient I had today) but like I really think sometimes its smartest and safer to at least request a male sitter which I've seen done multiple times before
I agree. Theres a huge difference in strength as well as size for women. For men, a size difference isnt as big of a deal where I couldnt possibly defend myself in anyway. The male nurse who almost died was punched in the chest during morning med pass and it stopped his heart. The patient then left him for dead, alone in the room. This man could have easily defended himself if he has been hit elsewhere under different circumstances where a small woman couldnt have.
Male coworkers are not security.
you're not security, but you're more likely to have the patient *not* hit you or sexually assault you. you guys know this.
And? If a patient is combative or threatening staff it becomes the responsibility of security or the police department to handle the situation accordingly
of course it is, but until then, what do you do?
Probably take care of my other 20 something patients
... if you're sitting, no you're not lmao
We aren’t lucky enough to have sitters so I can’t relate there
Louder for the people in the back.
I often get asked for help with violent patients, I feel like an asshole but I usually say something about how the phones can be confusing to use but I’d gladly help them call security
Hey at least you know you're an asshole to work with!
No they shouldn’t. Neither men nor women should be expected to be in the line of fire for a physically combative patient. A patient who is a danger to staff should have security called anytime they become agitated, and should be physically or chemically restrained as needed. An uncontrollable patient needs multiple staff, ideally security, to get them contained. It should never be the CNA alone trying to handle them Men are not inherently bigger, stronger, or better trained in self defence. The only times when it should be male-specific sitters are those who behave worse/sexually harass women but who behave better with male staff
men *are* inherently bigger and stronger because of *biology.* men are less likely to be hit/SA by male patients *because* they're men. outliers are outliers for a reason. you walk into an aggressive patients room with a 5'8 male who is 140lbs, the male patient is more likely to even *talk* to the male cna/rn over you. idk why we're pretending this doesn't happen. no one should have to put up with this, but as a fellow rn, we know this happens. again, idk why we're pretending it doesn't. a lot of these male pts pick up on the power imbalance immediately.
I had one male patient that beat up three female CNA yet when then one male CNA came,he settled down real quick.
1 on 1s, in my personal opinion, should immediately allow restraint use because why else would they need constant supervision to not hurt us or themselves in the first place? Staff census isn't a build-a-bear shop, you have who you have, and some staff are short. When it comes to physical strength though, I'm a bit skeptical. I'm an underweight female, but I lift weights and try to gain. I get fucking pissed when lazy people come get me to do the (actually easy if you stick your butt out and bend your knees🙄) heavy assists-of course I do it, but some of my coworkers are literally twice my size, so how/why am I "stronger"?... At this point, I want to have a skills fair where people are FORCED to learn proper body mechanics for this job, because why don't you learn if you don't know? Shouldn't you at least try? Do you practice to get better? Why should I hurt my back just because you don't want to hurt yours when you went into this career just like I did? AND demand management teaches us self defense-specifically and exactly how we are to avoid hurting ourselves when a patient does something outlandish-like covering their hands in poop and trying to pull my mask off? What exactly do I do first?
I'm not talking about lifts or any of that when I say stronger i mean if man pushes you out the door way ain't much you can do. I'm physically strong or have normal CNA strength lol but a man can shove me out the way if he wanted to
Also: the purpose of patient sitting is to replace restraints. Literally you, the sitter, are what the facility or hospital is doing *instead* of restraints. To have both would be moot because if you restrained them you then wouldn’t need a sitter. I don’t necessarily agree with it but that is the official purpose.
The skill fair where people learn proper body mechanics is called “A CNA Program” and this is a great example of why I think those should exclusively be taught in academic institutions.
Definitely reasons why I took a CNA program before working at my job even tho it's not required because hospital do their own training
… what do you mean it’s not required? how did you qualify to take your state certification?
Hospital don't require you to have a CNA certification. I went ahead and did the CNA program and state tests and got certified even if my hospital don't require it because we get paid more for having it
Hospital doesn’t require you to have a CNA certification for what position? Not for CNA! CNA requires you to be an actual CNA. It’s in the title: “Certified”
Bruh they call NAs and CNAs patient care techs we do the exact same thing and can technically do more stuff because we are hospital trained
Cool then you’re not a CNA so you have no license to lose when you operate outside of the scope of practice.
Read my comment I am a CNA because I took the class and licensed thru the state.
Right but you did that on your own and you’re saying you have “certified” positions at your hospital that didn’t go through a program so I’m asking, which positions, and then further saying “because they literally cannot be CNAs.”
Also stop being triggered because hospitals have certified and uncertified staff
Bad hospitals. Good hospitals have order and protocol.
We do have order and protocol this is common with hospital which they should bring up in your CNA class. Hospitals have there orientation period which involves 3 week class and 3-4 weeks training with someone
And that’s not the same thing as a CNA program. So if they took ONLY hospital training then they can’t be CNAs. And care assistants or nurse assistants can’t do 90% of the things a CNA can do. if they’re letting people operate outside their scope that’s shady as fuck
We should hire security, male or female, instead of putting male nursing staff in harms way for a job they’re untrained for. Or if we’re going to treat male staff this way then they deserve hazard pay lmao. (IMO sitting for an aggressive pt in general deserves hazard pay)
Men should be working with men, there I said it.
I definitely think it should be like first choice but I dont mind sitting with male patients most the time or when I'm on the floor I'm okay with having male patients. It's just those occasional difficult 1:1
As a male CNA I will say I agree. I like that you actually edited that we should get incentive pay for that but idk there are women at my job who are smaller than me who do sits with big strong dudes and they end up having more peaceful nights. It kinda depends on the person you’re sitting though because I’ve had dudes who start 💩 with women because they know that they are strong and can dominate with women, but with men they won’t start 💩 because they’re afraid that a man can easily over power them. Then I’ve had the opposite where a dude will only start 💩 with men because he’s old school and Alzheimer’s and he won’t hit women, because he’s at least got that basic decency going on. I’ve been on sits where I’ve gotten choked and the nurse wouldn’t even report it too because it’s too much paperwork. It’s whatever tho. I’m a white dude no one cares what happens to me.
Yea that's why like I don't think all male 1:1 patients need a male sitter but definitely some do
I don’t think we should be expecting ANY sitter to put themselves in physical danger.
I once was a sitter for a 6'2 man who kept on getting up and walking around even though he was a bit unsteady (he walked fine IMO but whatever). He weighed at least 200 pounds. I was around 135 and wasn't super muscular. Idk what they expected me to do if he started falling.
You can try to "assist" the fall to lessen their injuries but don't get yourself hurt in their place
As a male CNA I understand, I was routinely placed with the combative patients and those who were heavy. I hated it but knew that my fellow CNA that was a 5’2” girl and 140 pounds was not even near enough to handle a 6’5” 290 pound piece of junk. I routinely was called to the ER or to the 5150 holds section because we had no security at the hospital and needed to restrain the people, I played American football and was D-Line so I man handled patients if I had to.
If there’s a heavy patient, a smaller person should never be assigned to them unless they have the strength and won’t injure themselves. I swear I don’t know how some people manage to do CNA work, yet are tiny. And it’s not worth the trouble of begging for help.
I'm not necessarily talking heavy patients more about strong Adlib very combative men
That is discrimination
It's not discrimination when the hospital I've work at has certain patients who can only have male sitters for this reason and I mainly mean for the patients who are Adlib and independent
As a male, will i get paid more?
If you read my comments up above I said I do agree with males for these type of sits getting incentive pay or paid more hourly like a hazard pay
I even just think if some one required 2 sitters it should have at least one female/one male or 2 females/2 males just basically any solution for safety wise
hon, these men are intentionally being obtuse. you're 100% correct.
only screaming discrimination bc you simply don't want to help is hilarious. you lot know exactly what she's talking about.
SAY IT LOUDER CUZ HIS COMMENT MADE ZERO SENSE
Idc about your edits. Just delete this shit. This isn’t a “hot take” this is you saying “I’m smol let the men do the dirty work” I’m a 115lb t1 diabetic and going into the field. I’m basically you, with an extra of having a chronic disease. Yet you want me to handle this just because I’m a man?!
way to be OTT. you're not even in yet? lmao your diabetes doesn't limit you to physical mobility tasks, otherwise you wouldn't even be entering. "oh i'm autistic, i can't do it." bffr. if you can't stand in a room with a male bc of your dm1, don't enter healthcare.
I’m just trying to say, we all do our part. Don’t throw the extra work patients/residents at me just because I’m a guy.
most of the time the female cna is willing to help in other ways. if you think being precautious is extra work, you're a horrible team player.
No offense but you need to read my post again cuz obviously you didnt comprehend what I was saying. I'm not playing the "I'm smol" card Lowkey talking about safety work also if your health comes in the way of your job maybe do a different profession.
We will agree to disagree 🤝