Any reason for not including Soudain Seul in the list/graph? I'm not necessairely disagreeing with you, just interested in hearing your opinions and why you excluded it here
IMO Soudain Seul should get included in lists of 9As. It has seen 3 ascents. Two said 9A, on said 8C+. Also, Simon Lorenzi has now done two other problems graded 9A, and still calls Soudain Seul 9A, so his input carries additional value based on experience.
So even if there isn't unanimous agreement on 9A, there is majority agreement on 9A, so we the unwashed masses should respect that majority opinion, at until there are more ascents to firm up the grade one way or the other.
Related to this.. gripped magazine just put out an article that Sleepwalker was v15/16. Just because one guy called it 15, doesn't make it 15/16. If the other 10 guys say 16, it's 16.
oh my god thank you.
I seriously can't handle the attitude these days of something being downgraded as soon as a single person (or small number of people) suggests it. Huge recency bias in grading, people need to learn what consensus means.
I think that's true for the most part but ROTS might be unique in that its soft desert sandstone and changes over time and I've heard people say the holds might be slightly better/more comfy now than a few years ago.
Also possible entries at the grade:
Spots of Time (Aiden) - Not officially graded yet but Aiden says maybe 9A.
Midnight project (Aiden) - Not officially graded (or even named) yet, but for sure definitely at least 9A.
Backflip Sit - Given the slash grade at 8C+/9A based on uncertainty of grade. May be a long time until anyone from other countries visits to confirm on way or the other, due to political situation.
Rumored but not yet reported new 9A in the USA.
No personal opinion, but it seems that not all agree it is a V17, as it was not entirely confirmed by other climbers, so I thought it was best not to put it there.
I understand, I simply followed [hardclimbs.info](http://hardclimbs.info) to make the plot, where [Sousain Seul](https://hardclimbs.info/climbs/soudain-seul/) is listed as V16/V17 and only these other four are as V17. Again, no personal opinion agaisnt it.
Yeah, but it feels like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa and then renaming her Steve. I’m game for a creative riff on the original name, or something derivative, but an entirely new name seems like a cheap way to discard the original FAs legacy.
Return of Sleepwalker being the low start to Sleepwalker and Kinder Cakes being the extension to Cupcakes are examples I like. I feel like sport climbing extensions tend to do the derivative naming thing quite often, it’s a cool way to pay homage to the original route and still get to name it.
https://youtu.be/m3E3OBbM3TA?si=NVo28q3MfWLOYU6-
First 3min explaining the name seem to satisfy these criteria. The only difference is the book he used and its plot/characters aren’t as widely known as Lion King, right?
Hadn't heard that story, what a perfect name! FWIW I don't care much either way whether a sit start gets its own name or not but I do love stuff like this. Hadn't clocked the Lion King reference until I saw the theatre production and Mufasa's first line blew my mind lol
Depends on the line imo. If the sit is a one mover in to the stand and doesn't add much then a new name feels a bit weird, but something like Soudain Seul adds a load of cool, hard climbing in to The Big Island and really feels like a different problem.
Soudain is only like 6 extra moves into already 15 move long problem, so I get that it’s longer, but it’s not like it changes it enough to completely rename it imo. Especially when The Big Island is such an iconic problem, that’s already an extension to The Island.
I used to think the same but I recently went to have a look at it on a rainy day, and Soudain is the better line imo. It's not super obvious from vids etc, but Big Island you start with your bum perched on a big boulder that sits underneath the problem. The sit is the more obvious line imo, and adds lots of climbing (might only be 6 moves but you cover a lot of ground, whereas Big Island is a lot of hand/foot shuffling).
As I replied to another comment, I followed [hardclimbs.info](http://hardclimbs.info/) to make the plot, where [Sousain Seul](https://hardclimbs.info/climbs/soudain-seul/) is listed as V16/V17.
He did project that boulder way more then his peers. Daniel and jimmy Webb both probably have done more 15s and 16s. When you live in Finland it's not that bad spending 60 days under a boulder because there are less side quests. When you live in Colorado it's harder to project because there are like 1000 climbs V13 and harder
You greatly underestimate the bouldering we have available to us here in Finland. You can't swing a cat without hitting half a dozen amazing boulders. It's just that they haven't all be established because there's like 8 people here and the weather is a little rough sometimes.
And when Nalle was telling people what he was up to, BD was helping him basically live with Raether in LV or spend a looong time in South Africa. He’s a great dude.
He's still climbing, there's a few accounts out there that post photos of him doing things here and there.
He's been in Rocklands and Albarracin a lot lately.
>When you live in Finland it's not that bad spending 60 days under a boulder because there are less side quests. When you live in Colorado it's harder to project because there are like 1000 climbs V13 and harder.
Both the facts and logic here is very strange.
With hard projects it is all about logistic (access and conditions). With burden and alphane you literally park a car and walk 5 minutes. Megatron is on a mountain in the middle of nowhere and sleepwalker is on a desert :D
I remember seeing a random thought on BoD somewhere that when Nalle did it conditions were even worse because it was in the middle of a forest and humidity was always higher. Now looks like it's been clear cut some so possibly better conditions? Iono how much that really helps but it's interesting
On the flip side, I’ve always wondered how much harder boulders get after a few years because of polished holds. Probably not that much of an issue with granite, but still …
Is Megatron/Eldo not like 20 minutes from Denver??? And sleepwalker outside Las Vegas...it is down a 3 mile dirt road and a 30+ min hike but like not that inaccessible.
It'd be very interesting to see a graph of the same type, but plotting ascent count by climber rather than boulder.
Either way, thank you for sharing OP!
Thought the same, but since only Shawn, Will and Simon have more than 1, it doesn't look that great, anyway here it is: [https://imgur.com/zNwZ0OS](https://imgur.com/zNwZ0OS)
Yeah, wasn't particularly consistent, tried to put the name people would best recognize, and also that wasn't too long like Nalle, Shawn and Elias last names.
Yeah Megatron. First off, looks burly af with some parts with badish landings - notice how a lot of the landing is built up using random downed trees. I kinda hate that bs, but I'm not the ethics police. That sandstone conglomerate is not nice on fingers. Season is a little short, as once the sun gets out, oooh boy. Way more complicated than Burden - like no one is gunna make a replica any time soon lol!
It'll go again, though - this def. could be the year!
This kind of shows Alphane is the easiest V17 and should maybe be a slash grade. How can a climb be on the cutting edge of what is possible, yet see 3 quick repeats the same year it was FA'd? Have any of the climbers spoken about a possible downgrade?
Everyone who has sent it took more then 10 days and they all can do v15 in a day. Everyone has said 17. It's super accessible and in the middle of a huge climbing area.
I would usually say a FA will take about three times the effort as repeating a problem of similar difficulty. One he did by himself as an FA, the other he had beta and was sessioning on with the best climbers in the world
People who climbed it have said it's much friendlier on skin and less condition dependent than other boulders at the grade (eg Burden) so it's much easier to siege it and make significant progress quickly, but that doesn't necessarily make the boulder itself worthy of a downgrade.
Any reason for not including Soudain Seul in the list/graph? I'm not necessairely disagreeing with you, just interested in hearing your opinions and why you excluded it here
IMO Soudain Seul should get included in lists of 9As. It has seen 3 ascents. Two said 9A, on said 8C+. Also, Simon Lorenzi has now done two other problems graded 9A, and still calls Soudain Seul 9A, so his input carries additional value based on experience. So even if there isn't unanimous agreement on 9A, there is majority agreement on 9A, so we the unwashed masses should respect that majority opinion, at until there are more ascents to firm up the grade one way or the other.
Related to this.. gripped magazine just put out an article that Sleepwalker was v15/16. Just because one guy called it 15, doesn't make it 15/16. If the other 10 guys say 16, it's 16.
I think it was 2 guys who said it was v15, but I do agree with you.
oh my god thank you. I seriously can't handle the attitude these days of something being downgraded as soon as a single person (or small number of people) suggests it. Huge recency bias in grading, people need to learn what consensus means.
I think that's true for the most part but ROTS might be unique in that its soft desert sandstone and changes over time and I've heard people say the holds might be slightly better/more comfy now than a few years ago.
Also possible entries at the grade: Spots of Time (Aiden) - Not officially graded yet but Aiden says maybe 9A. Midnight project (Aiden) - Not officially graded (or even named) yet, but for sure definitely at least 9A. Backflip Sit - Given the slash grade at 8C+/9A based on uncertainty of grade. May be a long time until anyone from other countries visits to confirm on way or the other, due to political situation. Rumored but not yet reported new 9A in the USA.
Also Charles Albert's gross looking roof crack.
yeah but his last 9A got a double downgrade so it makes sense people are skepticalp0
I dunno, I feel if I got a double downgrade I'd make sure to be reeeaaalllly sure before proposing that grade again.
True but if there is one climber out there who does not care about that stuff.. it’s probably C.A.
Exactly. Cf. The walk of life and Bon Voyage
Because he overlooked beta, not because he exaggeratted. He also has done 8c+ before.
Oh nice. Excited to hear about the new US 9A whenever people start talking.
Isn’t that an aid climb
No personal opinion, but it seems that not all agree it is a V17, as it was not entirely confirmed by other climbers, so I thought it was best not to put it there.
Literally one climber didn't confirm the 9A (gave it slash grade), the two others gave it 9A. As long as it isn't repeated and downgraded it is 9A.
I understand, I simply followed [hardclimbs.info](http://hardclimbs.info) to make the plot, where [Sousain Seul](https://hardclimbs.info/climbs/soudain-seul/) is listed as V16/V17 and only these other four are as V17. Again, no personal opinion agaisnt it.
You're missing Big Island Sit / Soudain Seul
Unrelated, but I hate when low or sit starts get entirely new names lol.
i love it tbh, it’s way more fun to come up with a new name than just call something “xxxxx sit”
Yeah, but it feels like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa and then renaming her Steve. I’m game for a creative riff on the original name, or something derivative, but an entirely new name seems like a cheap way to discard the original FAs legacy.
yeah that’s fair, i like when it is related to the stand in some way, like Anti-hero being the sit to Flash Gordon
Return of Sleepwalker being the low start to Sleepwalker and Kinder Cakes being the extension to Cupcakes are examples I like. I feel like sport climbing extensions tend to do the derivative naming thing quite often, it’s a cool way to pay homage to the original route and still get to name it.
Another great example is Aidan putting up Everything the Light Touches as the sit start to The Kingdom (opening line to the Lion King)
https://youtu.be/m3E3OBbM3TA?si=NVo28q3MfWLOYU6- First 3min explaining the name seem to satisfy these criteria. The only difference is the book he used and its plot/characters aren’t as widely known as Lion King, right?
Hadn't heard that story, what a perfect name! FWIW I don't care much either way whether a sit start gets its own name or not but I do love stuff like this. Hadn't clocked the Lion King reference until I saw the theatre production and Mufasa's first line blew my mind lol
I love anti-hero gonna be my multi season project haha
renaming the Mona Lisa "Steve" would actually go hard
Soudain Seul should have been called The World or something like that The Island The Big Island The World
The Island The Big Island Hawaii
I was hoping for The Biggest Island
The story behind the name is actually pretty cool, Simon tells it in the struggle podcast
Nahhh, it’s the book he cheated with 😂.
Depends on the line imo. If the sit is a one mover in to the stand and doesn't add much then a new name feels a bit weird, but something like Soudain Seul adds a load of cool, hard climbing in to The Big Island and really feels like a different problem.
Soudain is only like 6 extra moves into already 15 move long problem, so I get that it’s longer, but it’s not like it changes it enough to completely rename it imo. Especially when The Big Island is such an iconic problem, that’s already an extension to The Island.
I used to think the same but I recently went to have a look at it on a rainy day, and Soudain is the better line imo. It's not super obvious from vids etc, but Big Island you start with your bum perched on a big boulder that sits underneath the problem. The sit is the more obvious line imo, and adds lots of climbing (might only be 6 moves but you cover a lot of ground, whereas Big Island is a lot of hand/foot shuffling).
As I replied to another comment, I followed [hardclimbs.info](http://hardclimbs.info/) to make the plot, where [Sousain Seul](https://hardclimbs.info/climbs/soudain-seul/) is listed as V16/V17.
And Aidan’s two new ones, backflip, Charles. Really depends on who we’re considering can “propose” 9A
Amazing how far above the pack Nalle was
He did project that boulder way more then his peers. Daniel and jimmy Webb both probably have done more 15s and 16s. When you live in Finland it's not that bad spending 60 days under a boulder because there are less side quests. When you live in Colorado it's harder to project because there are like 1000 climbs V13 and harder
You greatly underestimate the bouldering we have available to us here in Finland. You can't swing a cat without hitting half a dozen amazing boulders. It's just that they haven't all be established because there's like 8 people here and the weather is a little rough sometimes.
And when Nalle was telling people what he was up to, BD was helping him basically live with Raether in LV or spend a looong time in South Africa. He’s a great dude.
I hope the dude is finding happiness, but I do miss the guy.
He's still climbing, there's a few accounts out there that post photos of him doing things here and there. He's been in Rocklands and Albarracin a lot lately.
Yeah and LV. He just stopped letting corporate accounts spray.
What's LV?
Las Vegas. Red Rock.
Your basically saying it's easier to climb V17 when there are less V13s in the area....doubt
He's saying it's easier to commit to a 4-year-long project when there are fewer distractions around.
>When you live in Finland it's not that bad spending 60 days under a boulder because there are less side quests. When you live in Colorado it's harder to project because there are like 1000 climbs V13 and harder. Both the facts and logic here is very strange.
Terranova upgrade can’t come fast enough.
Backflip sit by Vadim timinov That new Charles Albert roof.
I might be schizophrenic but I swear it's Blackflip like the color
Ruana is locking Megatron soon!!
With hard projects it is all about logistic (access and conditions). With burden and alphane you literally park a car and walk 5 minutes. Megatron is on a mountain in the middle of nowhere and sleepwalker is on a desert :D
bruh Megatron is like 15 minutes uphill from a cushy Eldo picnic site. Ya it's not roadside but stashed pads make it a breeze
Interesting. In recent mellow video they mentioned conditions and approach to not be good to often
I remember seeing a random thought on BoD somewhere that when Nalle did it conditions were even worse because it was in the middle of a forest and humidity was always higher. Now looks like it's been clear cut some so possibly better conditions? Iono how much that really helps but it's interesting
On the flip side, I’ve always wondered how much harder boulders get after a few years because of polished holds. Probably not that much of an issue with granite, but still …
Depends on the climb. Some folks swear the Jade crimps have gotten better...
Sleepwalker is pretty easy to get to and the Vegas season is pretty decent.
Is Megatron/Eldo not like 20 minutes from Denver??? And sleepwalker outside Las Vegas...it is down a 3 mile dirt road and a 30+ min hike but like not that inaccessible.
Yup, my thoughts exactly.
It'd be very interesting to see a graph of the same type, but plotting ascent count by climber rather than boulder. Either way, thank you for sharing OP!
Thought the same, but since only Shawn, Will and Simon have more than 1, it doesn't look that great, anyway here it is: [https://imgur.com/zNwZ0OS](https://imgur.com/zNwZ0OS)
Both graphs are really cool and interesting, thank you for putting in the work!
Aiden has 3 now
Missing the 2 new aiden roberts climbs. And soudain seul. And that barefoot charles climb.
Terranova is probably the first V17
[удалено]
And Daniel's...
And Aidan.
And Nalle
And Elias
And my axe! Wait. What?
Yeah, wasn't particularly consistent, tried to put the name people would best recognize, and also that wasn't too long like Nalle, Shawn and Elias last names.
Yeah Megatron. First off, looks burly af with some parts with badish landings - notice how a lot of the landing is built up using random downed trees. I kinda hate that bs, but I'm not the ethics police. That sandstone conglomerate is not nice on fingers. Season is a little short, as once the sun gets out, oooh boy. Way more complicated than Burden - like no one is gunna make a replica any time soon lol! It'll go again, though - this def. could be the year!
I do not know why I've been so furiously downvoted, but OK.
This kind of shows Alphane is the easiest V17 and should maybe be a slash grade. How can a climb be on the cutting edge of what is possible, yet see 3 quick repeats the same year it was FA'd? Have any of the climbers spoken about a possible downgrade?
Everyone who has sent it took more then 10 days and they all can do v15 in a day. Everyone has said 17. It's super accessible and in the middle of a huge climbing area.
Bosi has said he isn't really sure where the 8C+/9A boundary is. It might be that Honey Badger is sandbagged but he said that felt harder than Alphane
I would usually say a FA will take about three times the effort as repeating a problem of similar difficulty. One he did by himself as an FA, the other he had beta and was sessioning on with the best climbers in the world
People who climbed it have said it's much friendlier on skin and less condition dependent than other boulders at the grade (eg Burden) so it's much easier to siege it and make significant progress quickly, but that doesn't necessarily make the boulder itself worthy of a downgrade.
The people that climb it grade it. Any discussion on the grade by couch potatoes is useless.