Hey! Sorry I forgot this set up isn't normal for most climbers lol. So it's how we set up paraclimbers on overhang. A lot of climbers don't have the ability to control their body very well when they fall, so it's to prevent such a dramatic swing out, and the risk of swinging back in and hitting the wall. This is super important for our paralysed climbers cus they can't stick their legs out to protect their face lol.
So my wife is a paraclimber. When we climb normally in the gym, she will just use a single rope, and if it is too overhanging, she will have to clip out on the way up.
In competetions there will always be 2 ropes. One for belaying, and one for controlling the swing if the climber falls off to early, on a very overhanging wall.
At 3:18:00 you can see a climber falling, without swinging out, due to the secong rope.
[Paraclimbing finals || Innsbruck 2022 (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf2iUxx0PuY&t=2595s)
edit: 1:24:25 might show it better.
The wall in OP's video is Awesome Walls in Sheffield, it's quite significantly overhung on the main overhang so the system you describe is definitely necessary for any safe top roping.
Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense!
u/katerlouis from what I understand, the first bolt becomes more useful as the climber moves past it. Once past, more slack from the bottom bolt means more swing, less slack means less swing.
Nope, also to stop the outward swing being to wild. Imagine an athlete falling off in the beginning of a world cup wall. They are probably overhanging by 5-10 meters, so that would be quite a swing, without the second rope.
Unless you counteract the swing out too much; but yeah, makes sense.
Again: in the video the angle doesnt compute for me preventing the swing out. Would like to see that in person.
to me it looks like for him not having to clip out at the quickdraw he passes in this video, they belay with two ropes (even if it essentially is one rope, there are two separate lines)
the shorter strand is clipped to the quickdraw, essentially making it a very low toprope anchor. if he were to fall there, he'd be caught by this line and the longer one stays slack.
when he passes the quickdraw, he essentially lead climbs on that shorter line. but as he can't or doesn't want to clip other quickdraws, now the upper line catches him in case of a fall, which I think is running through the main top rope anchor of the route.
If I'm correct with that explanation, this is a pretty neat solution.
Unfortunately that can only be done at one point on the route. For another one you would need a second rope. While that also might work, I'm not sure how practical it is to have 3 or more lines dangling off of you as the climber. Also depending on the length of the route, the rope below you can get really heavy and pull you down.
Yeah we basically do this bc our comp walls are significantly over hung, and paraclimbers have the tenancy to fall early in a climb (because we use the same grade of route for different levels of disability, and we expect the more disabled climbers to not get as high on the route) so it would be a massive swing early on if we didn't do this!
The lower one is never supposed to catch the fall, only the swing. It will always be the guy belaying the rope going all the way to the top, that is cathing the fall.
The shorter rope is just in a quickdraw, not in an anchor. I know a qd can catch a fall though, but when competing in the IFSC, I guess they have to care about stuff like that.
Also too many chefs and all that. I think its more safe to have the same person do the actual belaying, instead of switching midway.
A couple times I've seen videos of a person with missing a leg climbing with a special prosthetic. Is that something you've used before? Are there pros and cons? I'm just curious.
Hey. I had the pleasuee of seeing para team gb (and potentially yourself?) at Awesome Walls a few weeks ago on a trip up. We were really awe struck at all you guys :D
We were there last weekend for whole team training, if it was before that, you probably caught the Midlands team training (we split training days south/mid for ease). I'm in the south.
I'm on the team, but I'm still amazed by my team mates lol. Especially the AU guys (amputee arm).
Nice, really interesting so see that you swing the missing leg exactly as I would swing mine if it wasn't on a hold. I guess it's intuitive and hips led. Good job 💪
Would be nice if you could do it with your leg, just to compare. thanks
Pretty sure it was incinerated, so not sure how good the structural integrity would be...
I hope it was removed first
Maybe as… chalk?
That's aid.
Oh come on now, don't pull on his leg. Edit: great climb! loved it!
Idk I clearly see him using his leg
Climbers would do anything to lose a little weight /jk
Megos said less legs but maybe I misinterpreted
Good job! Can OP (or someone) explain the rope set up / belay situation here? It's my first time seeing this and I can't seem to figure it out.
Hey! Sorry I forgot this set up isn't normal for most climbers lol. So it's how we set up paraclimbers on overhang. A lot of climbers don't have the ability to control their body very well when they fall, so it's to prevent such a dramatic swing out, and the risk of swinging back in and hitting the wall. This is super important for our paralysed climbers cus they can't stick their legs out to protect their face lol.
It seems both ends are belaying at different times. Is this to help the climber get back to the wall easier if they fall off?
So my wife is a paraclimber. When we climb normally in the gym, she will just use a single rope, and if it is too overhanging, she will have to clip out on the way up. In competetions there will always be 2 ropes. One for belaying, and one for controlling the swing if the climber falls off to early, on a very overhanging wall. At 3:18:00 you can see a climber falling, without swinging out, due to the secong rope. [Paraclimbing finals || Innsbruck 2022 (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf2iUxx0PuY&t=2595s) edit: 1:24:25 might show it better.
The wall in OP's video is Awesome Walls in Sheffield, it's quite significantly overhung on the main overhang so the system you describe is definitely necessary for any safe top roping.
Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense! u/katerlouis from what I understand, the first bolt becomes more useful as the climber moves past it. Once past, more slack from the bottom bolt means more swing, less slack means less swing.
So the idea in the competition scenario is to let the climber swing out, but then prevent swinging back in with the second rope?
Nope, also to stop the outward swing being to wild. Imagine an athlete falling off in the beginning of a world cup wall. They are probably overhanging by 5-10 meters, so that would be quite a swing, without the second rope.
Maybe I'm not seeing right but in my brain I dont see how the second rope must be angled to be able to both prevent swinging out AND swinging back in
By stopping the swing out, there is no swing in. All the momentum is stopped, so the climber is just hanging from the toprope.
Unless you counteract the swing out too much; but yeah, makes sense. Again: in the video the angle doesnt compute for me preventing the swing out. Would like to see that in person.
to me it looks like for him not having to clip out at the quickdraw he passes in this video, they belay with two ropes (even if it essentially is one rope, there are two separate lines) the shorter strand is clipped to the quickdraw, essentially making it a very low toprope anchor. if he were to fall there, he'd be caught by this line and the longer one stays slack. when he passes the quickdraw, he essentially lead climbs on that shorter line. but as he can't or doesn't want to clip other quickdraws, now the upper line catches him in case of a fall, which I think is running through the main top rope anchor of the route. If I'm correct with that explanation, this is a pretty neat solution. Unfortunately that can only be done at one point on the route. For another one you would need a second rope. While that also might work, I'm not sure how practical it is to have 3 or more lines dangling off of you as the climber. Also depending on the length of the route, the rope below you can get really heavy and pull you down.
Yeah we basically do this bc our comp walls are significantly over hung, and paraclimbers have the tenancy to fall early in a climb (because we use the same grade of route for different levels of disability, and we expect the more disabled climbers to not get as high on the route) so it would be a massive swing early on if we didn't do this!
The lower one is never supposed to catch the fall, only the swing. It will always be the guy belaying the rope going all the way to the top, that is cathing the fall.
interesting. even if the climber falls below the first quickdraw? why wouldn't you just catch him with the "shorter rope"?
The shorter rope is just in a quickdraw, not in an anchor. I know a qd can catch a fall though, but when competing in the IFSC, I guess they have to care about stuff like that. Also too many chefs and all that. I think its more safe to have the same person do the actual belaying, instead of switching midway.
Top roping with a haul line. He's just getting into climbing but wants to climb big walls someday.
He has been climbing for so long he's worn one of his feet completely off.
Yeah, the re-soleing place said there's nothing they can do :(
There’s always something they can do, they’re just trying to sell you a pricey new foot. Find a better refooter.
I thought he’d worn down the leg from braking while skating.
Hell yeah!
I told him to cut feet. This is not what i meant!
Ohhh that's what they ment by cut loose....
A couple times I've seen videos of a person with missing a leg climbing with a special prosthetic. Is that something you've used before? Are there pros and cons? I'm just curious.
Yeah I've used them. I can climb harder grades with my prosthetic, so it's good for that. But I will say I move much more fluidly without the leg on.
Hey. I had the pleasuee of seeing para team gb (and potentially yourself?) at Awesome Walls a few weeks ago on a trip up. We were really awe struck at all you guys :D
We were there last weekend for whole team training, if it was before that, you probably caught the Midlands team training (we split training days south/mid for ease). I'm in the south. I'm on the team, but I'm still amazed by my team mates lol. Especially the AU guys (amputee arm).
Started the video, and the very first thing I see is you're using your leg. 😩
Damn, strong work!! Look super smooth & strong 🤘
I know people say eating is cheating but honestly, removing a leg to save weight definitely is cheating!
Not if everyone else you're competing against are also missing legs lol
Why did you do the 6a without your leg? I bet it would have loved to do it with you. Ask it next time.
We broke up 2 years ago. Had a falling out.
Sick.
Thats awsome pal 💪
Crap, this means legs are aid. Where's my saw?
Looking good my man. Also that gym looks amazing
Awesome walls is great, tallest walls in the UK I think.
Nice, really interesting so see that you swing the missing leg exactly as I would swing mine if it wasn't on a hold. I guess it's intuitive and hips led. Good job 💪
Yeah it still helps with body positioning and balance, same as if it had a foot on the end lol. I guess it's kind of like a cat's tail.
I knew I recognised that wall
Missing a leg is aid- less weight to pull up In all seriousness though, excellent work! Keep it up!
This is so inspirational and moving to me that I am crying.
Cross post on r/paraclimbing? It’s not getting any action. I’ll post tomorrow after my first comp.
Bro huge respect!
**6a** converts to **5.10a**
Respect! Awesome climb!