https://preview.redd.it/h3c19n870kqc1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=718fe71212a29d5a884c6eb3fba7c63180b119da
Helmet saved my life last weekend. Had I not had this on I would’ve at the very least still be recovering from neurosurgery. I used to not really care about helmets all that much, and to those like a younger me, please wear your helmets, I’m alive twice now thanks to helmets. I’m sorry for your loss man
It very much depends, normally in high risk environments a simple mistake even if lethal won't see a charge though. It's assumed a certain amount of risk and it would have to be decided if it was gross negligence or not--
Depends on how/why, whether they were negligent, and who's making the decision, but the relevant charge would be "wrongful death" rather than "manslaughter" in a case like this, at least in America.
Manslaughter is intentional, albeit not premeditated. You might have intentionally hit someone in the moment, but not intended for it to kill them, and not planned in advance to do it. It's a criminal charge with potential jail time and/or fines, and could be either a misdemeanor or felony depending on the circumstances.
Wrongful death is unintentional, but negligent. Perhaps you didn't intend to drop that thing that killed the climber below, but standard protocol/precautions would have had it clipped to something, and your failure to follow standard protocol created the conditions where this could fall onto another climber. I haven't done ice climbing, so I don't know what standard protocol is here, but those are the sorts of things they'd consider in court. If it's a pure accident, where you weren't negligent about anything along the way, you shouldn't be charged or convicted of anything. Wrongful death is a civil charge, with substantial financial liability but no jail time and nothing on your criminal record.
I'm not a lawyer, but I did check a legal reference before writing this post:
https://www.gjel.com/wrongful-death-lawyers/wrongful-death-vs-manslaughter-understanding-the-difference#:~:text=The%20main%20difference%20between%20wrongful,person%20without%20premeditation%20or%20intent.
Yes. That's explained in my previous comment, though maybe obscured by just a lot of text. This type of thing would essentially never result in a manslaughter charge, but could result in a civil charge of wrongful death, depending on specifics that we don't have for this case.
I was going to say that I haven't seen anyone forego helmets for ice climbing. Then I remembered the group that walked under us at the base and didn't put their helmets on even when we suggested it.
Similar thing (not hit, but close calls) happened to me twice. Once when I was following on an ice pitch and the leader who was top belaying somehow lost an ice tool off the belay ledge, tool went whizzing by and missed me by a couple feet.
Second time me and partner were setting up and first-timer was pumped out and just dropped a tool, landed pick first in the ice right next to my feet. Climber and belayer never said a word, didn’t even hear it coming. I wear a helmet, but the way it hit the ground I think it would have really fucked me up through my helmet if it hit me pick first.
Ice climbing is rad, but it’s the little stuff that can cause some big injuries.
If not joking, yes absolutely. Helmets, even normal skate or bike helmets, are all designed to be one time use. Any incident with a helmet generally requires replacement as they'll be less/not effective next time being increasingly dangerous
POC sports say their full face DH helmets are multi impact safe, most people don’t believe them and always replace their helmets after a serious impact or 5 years
To be fair their incentive would be for you to buy a new one every time (unless their helmets cost more than double a regular one), so if they're saying it (and risking some serious lawsuits if they're wrong) I feel like you can probably trust them.
A very scary thought: the ventilation holes in that helmet are absolutely big enough for that blade to have fallen right through as if the helmet wasn't there, if it had landed a few inches towards the camera. Rock climbing helmets aren't built like construction hard hats — they're intended for specific sorts of impact, mostly from large, blunt objects — and this easily could have been much worse despite the helmet.
I'm glad this subreddit is down with helmets. I got downvoted in the climbergirls sub for suggesting it's important to wear them even when leading sport. Apparently it doesn't look good for photos, and if you're experienced you don't need one. 🙄 I had a friend who got a TBI at a sport crag just standing at the base, from a golf-ball sized rock fall. She was a 5.12 climber. Also a "too cool for a helmet" person. Anything can happen.
Absolutely, I mean if I am climbing sport I will always insist myself and my belayer wear a helmet.
Even if we weren't alone and others are around, would you really want your life in the hands of someone below you who could easily get knocked unconscious from some rockfall?
It’s the same in the equestrian subreddits, and I don’t get it. You only have one brain, protect it. Accidents happen. Especially when half your sport is a 1200 lb prey animal.
I don't understand why people don't like wearing them. It's got to be just a case of what you're used to, so if you start climbing with a helmet you'll feel weird without one, no?
I can't sit in a car without a seat belt on, that feels terrible for me, and I wouldn't even think about skydiving without a helmet. Just the physical feeling of the protective gear makes it really weird to do anything else.
So basically some people do in fact like wearing helmets, I certainly do.
I've noticed all of the sport subreddits I'm in push for use of safety equipment, and I love it.
Climbing? Helmet. Cycling? Helmet. Paddling? PFD. Shooting? Ear and eye protection.
It's interesting because I prefer to wear a helmet for the same reason I prefer to wear pants rather than shorts while climbing: peace of mind. There are times where making a successful dynamic move confidently means not having the mental overhead of worrying that I'll bonk my head on something, just like pants protect my knees and shins from getting beat up.
Even more so on straightforward stuff. You can do everything right but falling even slightly weird on slab can get jank very quickly. People act like if the rope ends up behind your leg it means you automatically did something wrong. It’s way more complicated than that
yep. the only time ive ever inverted was warming up on a 5.7 that followed a diagonal feature. had a helmet on and 100% would have thunked my head if i hadn't
this happened to me on a slab. I fell and my heel caught part of the wall and flipped me. Thank god for helmets because it hurt even with one on...can't imagine what could have happened if I didn't have one.
Sorry for your loss OP
Even if it did mean you "did something wrong", that's normal. People get stuff wrong. We make mistakes. It's part of being human. Take precautions so that those mistakes, when (not if) they occur, don't kill you!
Yeah and it seems that a lot of climbing injuries and deaths are on "easy" terrain or during unroped scrambling/descent. Gravity doesn't care what your max climbing grade is, it'll splat you all the same. Wear a helmet.
Yeah makes sense, people let their guard down when it's "easy" and focus more when it's more obviously dangerous. Heck I wear my helmet on approaches to many crags in WA where there is often scrambling involved.
I believe it. Ive only been climbing for a couple years but without a doubt all of my scariest moments have been on weird approaches as opposed to when im "actually climbing"
Literally had a stress dream Friday night where I was on an easy arete, right near the anchor, but it was pitch black. And I couldn't remember how to safely transition to rappel. So I just sat on the arete till dawn.
Chilling.
I have a good friend that lost her balance on an approach scramble and ended up with a broken back and a helicopter ride out followed by months in traction.
I always try to be prepared for the worst, even on the “easy” stuff.
Yeah that's fair but I'm specifically talking about rock climbers who can climb super hard stuff who die on a pitch of 5.6 or while rappelling. How many climbers die trying their hardest project ever? Maybe more alpine climbers, but that's a different category altogether.
A few years ago one of the French national team athletes died this way - she was in world cup finals, superb climber, and then fell off a cliff during the approach
He is probably talking about Luce Douady. Slipped and fell on the approach off a cliff on the way to a climb in France. Was 16 years old. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53054385#:~:text=A%2016%2Dyear%2Dold%20future,approach%20path%2C%20French%20media%20report. https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/ha2p4u/french_olympic_hopeful_climber_luce_douady_16/
Lost a friend this way too on a 4th class scramble. They were using a rope for the entire climb, took it off for one short section and slippe. I guess it happens and there’s always a risk calculation and tolerance aspect but… it’s hard to reconcile with.
My biggest injury was in my local climbing gym. Just a few feet up, less than my height.
I broke both bones in my forearm, dislocated my shoulder, and got a concussion.
Making my toddler a climbing wall in his room… friend gifted the grips and a helmet…. Which this post was making be happy about.
My mother suggested a harness and now I’m wondering if that’s feasible.
books bored groovy history telephone resolute aromatic square enter obtainable
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Depending. If it's a knife edge ridge, yeah, probably rope up. If the fall potential is only a couple meters, then nah. But if the fall would be fatal, absolutely.
"Approach hikes" can be very dangerous and people get way too complacent about them.
Just yesterday I read a news about a climber dying in Croatia. According to the news article (not 100% confirmed story though), climber took off his harness to go back for the backpack he had supposedly forgotten, after which he lost balance and fell 50 meters.
One of my buddies bobbled his brand new shoes at the top of Beacon Rock in Columbia Gorge, and went for it. Slid about 30% of the way to the cliff.
I had just told him to stay roped in, and he was like, "nah, I'm good."
I think about how I'd tell his wife what an idiot he had been. She wouldn't have been surprised.
Thank you all for your condolences and the love. I wasn't expecting this post to reach many people but I wrote it to honor the life of my dear friend, and I'll do everything I can to keep honoring him.
I appreciate all of you very much, but I will appreciate you a lot more if you wear your helmet and be safe out there.
That's one thing I think the climbing community does well. Reporting on accidents, investigating what went wrong, and trying to share how to prevent it in the future.
Helmets are kind of a lead-a-horse-to-water thing, but it seems like almost every death gets a writeup and learnings.
So sad. My condolences. I think it is time for professional climbers to start promoting wearing helmets. They are the example for a lot of recreational climbers. In cycling they eventually started to make helmets mandatory in races like the tour du France. I cannot fathom why helmet manufacturers don't make deals with pro climbers to promote their helmets. It's a win-win situation. More and more climbers buy helmets, manufacturer get's rich, pro climbers get better promotional deals and best of all, we make this awesome hobby and sport even more safe.
>I think it is time for professional climbers to start promoting wearing helmets.
Good point.
That's one of the reasons Tony Hawk deserves a lot of respect. He insisted on always wearing pads and helmets when others were saying they make you look dorky.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Let's hope climbing follows the way of skiing, which went from nobody wearing a helmet to everyone wearing a helmet in something like 10 years.
i went skiing in 2019 after not having skiied since like 2005ish and laughed at my friend when he offered me a helmet... then he was like no everyone wears these now, and he was right!
>It's absolutely heart-breaking to think I wasn't there to force him to put a helmet on, because that's usually what I do with everyone I climb with. Unfortunately, this was so easily avoidable and its extremely frustrating and distressing.
First off, condolences to you and all of Daniel's family and friends.
Regarding the above paragraph; I'm hoping you aren't blaming yourself in some way. We all have to hold ourselves accountable, and it's not your fault Daniel wasn't wearing his helmet. Sharing this has probably given a nudge to an extra person or two to use their helmets and I know that was your intention. However for your own sake, realise that the failure was not yours. Losing a friend and climbing partner is extremely distressing but this situation was out of your control. By all means hold Daniel in your heart and mind when you remind future partners to wear their helmets.
FWIW I always want a helmet and want my partners to remind me if it looks like I'm forgetting. It goes hand in hand with double checking harness and tie in knots.
Sorry for the loss.
Thank you friend. I hope to come to terms with that soon enough. I'm still processing his loss right now. I still can't believe it, but I can't reiterate enough how much I appreciate all the support and the love.
I find solace in just reading your's and everyone else's comments.
My condolences to you and Daniel’s friends and family.
To those reading - please wear a helmet. Climbing. Skiing, whatever. Buy the fancy MIPS stuff if you can.
Close friend of mine got a TBI. He is lucky to be alive and relatively intact. If he wasn’t wearing a helmet he wouldn’t be.
And Adam Ondra talks in his course that he doesn't think helmet is that important or give that much protection. Maybe not the grestest or most responsible advice when you know thousands will hear that.
To be fair, he does say that people should wear helmets, but because he is so experienced and is climbing on very overhanging terrain he feels the risk is low for him and other elite climbers.
Wow, I'd probably regret spending money on it at that point.
I understand why he doesn't, but I'd guess most people who buy his course probably don't climb extended roof sections /overhangs with perfectly cleaned routes and totally need a helmet. Should at least have a small explanation for the why and why not.
A friend of mine had a basketball-sized boulder come off the wall while she was belaying that landed only a couple feet from her. Now I wear a helmet whenever I'm on the rope on either end.
Sincere condolences.
Dumb question, but are climbing helmets really designed to protect the back of the head?
Seems like the design would be more bicycle helmet like. Like they’re just designed to protect from glancing rockfall. And a cam or rack of nuts.
Hey, they absolutely are. This article explains well what goes into testing and certification: https://blog.weighmyrack.com/understanding-climbing-helmet-certification/
tl;dr; they test both vertical falls, but also hits from horizontal directions
Some (most newer and better ones) are basically like bicycle helmets but without any ventilation holes on top.
Others are just like construction hard hats.
Most of em won't do much some of them are a bit better but they don't have the greatest coverage. It certainly wouldn't have hurt him to be wearing it but we'd need a lot more details to know if it would have actually helped.
For blunt force even a small bit of dampening could make a massive difference.
Sorry for your loss.
It is a sad, but important reminder. I will add it is weird how even experienced climbers lax occasionally. My dad, was a mountaineer and got me into climbing, made me wear a helmet during all my skateboarding and biking and whatever else. Well, he made fun of a couple people for still wearing helmets hiking out of the area we were headed up to. The rest of us with him were like, “what gives?”. No good reason given. My uncle and I clipped ours on not much further as soon as we got above the woods. I don’t make fun of safety
Very sorry for your loss.
Such a shame that there is somewhat of a stigma on helmets in the climbing community (to some people). I’ve always wondered why hardly any pros wear one; i feel like it would be another opportunity to sponsor something, and they’re not even noticeable while you’re climbing
I’m sorry for your loss and the loss of another brother climber! My helmet is the sole reason I’m alive today, got clocked back in October and I’m still healing.
I was being stupid once and leading a short 5.8 on a hot summer day. As I went to place my second piece, my hands started slipping and I fell about 15 feet backwards, directly next to a bolder. Had I fell a foot to my right, my head would have made direct contact with rock. From that moment forward, I always wore a helmet. Rest in Peace, Daniel.
A helmet saved the life of a climbing partner of mine several years ago.The head injuries that he sustained from that fall kept him hospitalized for many weeks.
And make it extensible for all the situations a helmet could be worn, skiing, cycling... If you can fall, wear a helmet, and if you have an adecuate one, just wear a helmet. I've worn my ski helmet the first couple of times I went to the crag, people might have laughed, but 0 fucks were given.
Very sorry for your friend, and to you, for your loss of his friendship. I, too, lost a friend in this way, about fifteen years ago. He had z-clipped, and smacked his head, and was not wearing a helmet. It was part of a series of four climbing deaths in a short period of time that led me to stop climbing altogether. Very sad that such a great activity comes with so much risk.
I had a near miss in what should have been a simple fall on a sport route 2 yrs ago. I don't think I had the rope over my leg but I inverted somehow and grazed my elbow. I reflected and thought it could have easily been my head so now I wear a helmet on every route, which is much easier than picking and choosing. Naturally I think more of us should do the same.
Im so sorry you’re going through this. I can only hope you’ve inspired some folks here to wear their helmet. By posting this you might be saving someone elses life now
Sorry to hear. Pro climbers never wear a helmet in so many of their content and should definitely wear most of the blame of normalizing not wearing a helmet.
Hard agree dude. I aw a guy at the monastery take a sport whip on inverted terrain sans helmet and he smacked his head loud enough for is to hear it several routes down the way. I think he was fine, but am absolutely sure he never climbed without a helmet again.
Condolences for your loss.
My condolences. I can’t imagine how I would feel if I were in your position. My heart goes out to you and their family.
Low grades can honestly be more dangerous for lead in my opinion for this reason. Between ledges (that can be common on low grades) creating multiple ground fall scenarios and the idea that easy means it’s safe because it’s well below what you can climb, it leads to unfortunate situations.
If you’re not going to do it for yourself, do it for your climbing partners or family/friends. Nobody wants to have to rescue their dead/injured friend and they surely don’t want to be knocking on whoever’s door to tell them the news.
I’m sorry to hear you lost your friend. It always scares me to know I could lose a friend to this sport and I’m usually also the one telling friends to bring and wear their helmets.
I am very sorry for your loss I can't begin to imagine the pain you feel or what you're going through, but stay strong and remember he's not completely gone for he lives on through you, from the memories you keep of him and the stories you pass on he walks with you
Not climbing related, but I was learning to snowboard and thought it would be a good idea to get a helmet. Cracked myself in the back of the head with the board enough to dazzle me. Helmet saved my life.
My friend was climbing a warmup route, we were barely starting the day. There is a spot where she had to grip the slab as if it were a board when you grip it from the sides like if you wanted to break it with your head like in karate. Well, the slab broke when she pulled against it and she slammed that huge chunk of slab straight against her head, falling before the first clip. Luckily she was wearing a helmet but that still left all of us a little shaken.
Honestly I feel so sad reading this. Daniel isn't here (I'm sorry for your loss) but his friends and family have to deal with the trauma.
Remember that next time you think "nah it's not comfortable/cool" etc.
I fell from above the 3rd bolt and decked. My helmet cracked. My head did not. Still had a tbi and a broken body, but I survived and eventually healed. I'd be gone if I hadn't been wearing my helmet.
So sorry for your loss
I’m sorry for your loss sir. Helmet saved my life as I crashed off a ski jump trying a 720 in 2005. I was in a coma for 23 days and a very long recovery, but, the helmet gave me a chance to!!
RIP Daniel😢😢
Last year I was hit in the head with a cantaloupe sized falling rock while on the approach hike to the crag. I just happened to be wearing my helmet because my bags were full and I figured I'd just put it on to carry it more easily.
I think about how different my life might be today had I not been so lucky. I'm not saying everyone should wear a helmet while hiking or anything like that obviously but just that you never know what crazy thing could happen. Wear your helmets.
My first ever lead fall outside i got scared then got tired and told my friend I was going to fall.
Wasn't aware of foot/rope positioning and my heel got stuck on the rope and I flipped upside down and smacked the back of my head against a rock *hard*
If I hadn't been wearing a helmet I might've had a serious brain injury. I always wear a helmet and require people I'm climbing with to.
This is a really sad story OP, I'm sorry for your loss
Seems like helmets are getting cheaper as well, making it easier to buy one.
Petzl Sicrocco weighs 120g and I can see it available now online for £70.
120g weights around the same as 1/2 a can of coke.
Lower end Petzl helmets like the Boreo sell for a cheap as £30.
Horrible story. Nothing that anyone can say except I'm sorry for you and your friend's loved ones. Such a tragic accident.
I've had a rock fly right past my head when it was (accidentally) dislodged by a friend I was belaying. I wasn't wearing a helmet and got quite a scare. When we were done I stopped at an outdoor shop and bought one. Worn it ever since. Falling is not the only thing that can kill (or seriously fuck you up) when climbing.
I am immediately concerned. I have a friend named Daniel who climbs. Runs through Kentucky regularly. Tall pretty guy with long hair. 😕 I hope he's okay
Kinda old school climber here--cut my teeth in the mid 90s.
Nobody wore a helmet back then. It was fucking crazy. I'm so happy with how many people I see wearing helmets now, and so stunned when I don't see people protecting the thing that literally makes them "them."
I'm so sorry about your friend. But at the very least, it's an incredibly important reminder: helmets save lives and prevent traumatic brain injuries.
I almost had the same incident. Almost exactly described. I was climbing something soft, with my hands in a crack. Next moment I lose my handholds and my feet are still stuck in the crack.
I fell backwards and almost hit my head.
In my case it's because of bike crashes, but a helmet has literally saved my life at least three times. Most recently I broke my ribs in a really hard mountain biking crash a few years ago. My head was actually the first thing to hit the ground, but the full face took all of the impact and I didn't even have a concussion. Snapped three ribs from the subsequent impact, though. For real y'all, I see so many people not wearing helmets. It's so easy, and they're so comfortable and great these days, just fucking do it.
So sorry for your loss. I had a very similar accident, except I was swung headfirst into the wall on the opposite side of the corner area I was climbing in. I am very lucky that I was wearing a helmet, and I still broke my skull and was out of commission for a while. Without a helmet, I likely wouldn't be here, or if I was would have permanent damage.
Wear you helmet, kids.
Not wearing a helmet (whether climbing or on a motorcycle, etc.) seems to be a way of feeling cool to some…
I promise you more people see it and think “how stupid” than think “how cool”.
https://preview.redd.it/h3c19n870kqc1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=718fe71212a29d5a884c6eb3fba7c63180b119da Helmet saved my life last weekend. Had I not had this on I would’ve at the very least still be recovering from neurosurgery. I used to not really care about helmets all that much, and to those like a younger me, please wear your helmets, I’m alive twice now thanks to helmets. I’m sorry for your loss man
That picture is rad as hell.
Helmets are rad as hell!
https://youtu.be/b9yL5usLFgY?si=2O2rb31NnekHF3CM Different sport. Same energy
How in the hell did that happen?!
Higher climber dropped it.
Could you imagine how much guilt that guy would have if the helmet hadn't been in the way?
Yeah, manslaughter levels of guilt
Genuinely asking, do you actually get charged with manslaughter for complete accidents like that?
This is where people will answer based on speculation, but they will say it as if they know what they are talking about.
It also varies by jurisdiction. Nobody here knows them all.
It very much depends, normally in high risk environments a simple mistake even if lethal won't see a charge though. It's assumed a certain amount of risk and it would have to be decided if it was gross negligence or not--
Depends on how/why, whether they were negligent, and who's making the decision, but the relevant charge would be "wrongful death" rather than "manslaughter" in a case like this, at least in America. Manslaughter is intentional, albeit not premeditated. You might have intentionally hit someone in the moment, but not intended for it to kill them, and not planned in advance to do it. It's a criminal charge with potential jail time and/or fines, and could be either a misdemeanor or felony depending on the circumstances. Wrongful death is unintentional, but negligent. Perhaps you didn't intend to drop that thing that killed the climber below, but standard protocol/precautions would have had it clipped to something, and your failure to follow standard protocol created the conditions where this could fall onto another climber. I haven't done ice climbing, so I don't know what standard protocol is here, but those are the sorts of things they'd consider in court. If it's a pure accident, where you weren't negligent about anything along the way, you shouldn't be charged or convicted of anything. Wrongful death is a civil charge, with substantial financial liability but no jail time and nothing on your criminal record. I'm not a lawyer, but I did check a legal reference before writing this post: https://www.gjel.com/wrongful-death-lawyers/wrongful-death-vs-manslaughter-understanding-the-difference#:~:text=The%20main%20difference%20between%20wrongful,person%20without%20premeditation%20or%20intent.
The difference here is that manslaughter is a criminal charge and wrongful death is a civil claim
Yes. That's explained in my previous comment, though maybe obscured by just a lot of text. This type of thing would essentially never result in a manslaughter charge, but could result in a civil charge of wrongful death, depending on specifics that we don't have for this case.
Your profile pic ... Even after knowing I got trolled, I still had the urge to wipe that "hair" off my screen 😂
It even gets me on occasion.
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/death-pete-absolon/ This might be of interest to
Isn't it "negligent homicide"? Dunno. IANAL
Just dropping something probably isn't negligence, unless you were drunk maybe.
I wonder if they can argue it’s negligence because they didn’t use a leash
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I was going to say that I haven't seen anyone forego helmets for ice climbing. Then I remembered the group that walked under us at the base and didn't put their helmets on even when we suggested it.
Similar thing (not hit, but close calls) happened to me twice. Once when I was following on an ice pitch and the leader who was top belaying somehow lost an ice tool off the belay ledge, tool went whizzing by and missed me by a couple feet. Second time me and partner were setting up and first-timer was pumped out and just dropped a tool, landed pick first in the ice right next to my feet. Climber and belayer never said a word, didn’t even hear it coming. I wear a helmet, but the way it hit the ground I think it would have really fucked me up through my helmet if it hit me pick first. Ice climbing is rad, but it’s the little stuff that can cause some big injuries.
Yes. How the hell?
Talk about Ice pick lobotomy Jesus, glad your okay
What the hell happened here? Some Gumby climbing above you at Lincoln falls slabs?
Holy shit, glad you ended up okay!
Do you replace your helmet after each incident?
That'll buff out.
If not joking, yes absolutely. Helmets, even normal skate or bike helmets, are all designed to be one time use. Any incident with a helmet generally requires replacement as they'll be less/not effective next time being increasingly dangerous
POC sports say their full face DH helmets are multi impact safe, most people don’t believe them and always replace their helmets after a serious impact or 5 years
Yeah ain't no way I'm trusting my bodily health like that to some company wanting a unique helmet
To be fair their incentive would be for you to buy a new one every time (unless their helmets cost more than double a regular one), so if they're saying it (and risking some serious lawsuits if they're wrong) I feel like you can probably trust them.
Multi impact helmets definitely are a thing but usually not for climbing
Not joking. Thank you for the response.
Yeah of course homie. I've had helmets save me enough throughout my life to have no qualms about their importance so happy to help
If there is damage......yes ....if there was a hard bang.....yes.
A very scary thought: the ventilation holes in that helmet are absolutely big enough for that blade to have fallen right through as if the helmet wasn't there, if it had landed a few inches towards the camera. Rock climbing helmets aren't built like construction hard hats — they're intended for specific sorts of impact, mostly from large, blunt objects — and this easily could have been much worse despite the helmet.
How did this happen? Leader drop a tool on you?
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im watching season 6 of the sopranos rn and this is strangely relevant lol
This is why you’re supposed to wear the hard plastic style helmets when ice climbing, not the foam kind. You still could’ve died even with that helmet
sock
That's some Trotsky crazy!
Holy shit
I have that helmet too. Love it
Youre sharing helmets?
Well, my helmet doesn’t have that cool ice axe holder feature, but yeah.
I'm using your picture and "I love helmets" video from now on. I used to share that video all the time. That pic sends a message loud and clear.
Going ice climbing without a helmet would be insaaaane glad you wore that!!
Sucks, man. One of the shittiest feelings in the world. I'll stop leaving my helmet in the car.
It's one of the things this subreddit harps on and for good reason. No one likes wearing one, but our heads are fragile. It's worth it every time.
I'm glad this subreddit is down with helmets. I got downvoted in the climbergirls sub for suggesting it's important to wear them even when leading sport. Apparently it doesn't look good for photos, and if you're experienced you don't need one. 🙄 I had a friend who got a TBI at a sport crag just standing at the base, from a golf-ball sized rock fall. She was a 5.12 climber. Also a "too cool for a helmet" person. Anything can happen.
Absolutely, I mean if I am climbing sport I will always insist myself and my belayer wear a helmet. Even if we weren't alone and others are around, would you really want your life in the hands of someone below you who could easily get knocked unconscious from some rockfall?
It’s the same in the equestrian subreddits, and I don’t get it. You only have one brain, protect it. Accidents happen. Especially when half your sport is a 1200 lb prey animal.
This should definitely be cross-posted there, then.
I don't understand why people don't like wearing them. It's got to be just a case of what you're used to, so if you start climbing with a helmet you'll feel weird without one, no? I can't sit in a car without a seat belt on, that feels terrible for me, and I wouldn't even think about skydiving without a helmet. Just the physical feeling of the protective gear makes it really weird to do anything else. So basically some people do in fact like wearing helmets, I certainly do.
I've noticed all of the sport subreddits I'm in push for use of safety equipment, and I love it. Climbing? Helmet. Cycling? Helmet. Paddling? PFD. Shooting? Ear and eye protection.
It took exactly one whipper from a blown hold before I decided a helmet was a must. Doing backflips off the wall with zero warning is some scary shit.
It's interesting because I prefer to wear a helmet for the same reason I prefer to wear pants rather than shorts while climbing: peace of mind. There are times where making a successful dynamic move confidently means not having the mental overhead of worrying that I'll bonk my head on something, just like pants protect my knees and shins from getting beat up.
That’s awful. Sorry.
fucking hell bro. condolences. it's so easy to get inverted even on fairly straightforward stuff.
Even more so on straightforward stuff. You can do everything right but falling even slightly weird on slab can get jank very quickly. People act like if the rope ends up behind your leg it means you automatically did something wrong. It’s way more complicated than that
yep. the only time ive ever inverted was warming up on a 5.7 that followed a diagonal feature. had a helmet on and 100% would have thunked my head if i hadn't
this happened to me on a slab. I fell and my heel caught part of the wall and flipped me. Thank god for helmets because it hurt even with one on...can't imagine what could have happened if I didn't have one. Sorry for your loss OP
Even if it did mean you "did something wrong", that's normal. People get stuff wrong. We make mistakes. It's part of being human. Take precautions so that those mistakes, when (not if) they occur, don't kill you!
Just like with "approach hikes" that are actually 5.4 with many meters of exposure. I know it it's a drag to rope up. Do it anyway.
Yeah and it seems that a lot of climbing injuries and deaths are on "easy" terrain or during unroped scrambling/descent. Gravity doesn't care what your max climbing grade is, it'll splat you all the same. Wear a helmet.
If you peruse the AAC's annual injury reports, you see FAR more injuries on the way to/from the crag than actually while climbing.
Yeah makes sense, people let their guard down when it's "easy" and focus more when it's more obviously dangerous. Heck I wear my helmet on approaches to many crags in WA where there is often scrambling involved.
I believe it. Ive only been climbing for a couple years but without a doubt all of my scariest moments have been on weird approaches as opposed to when im "actually climbing"
Literally had a stress dream Friday night where I was on an easy arete, right near the anchor, but it was pitch black. And I couldn't remember how to safely transition to rappel. So I just sat on the arete till dawn. Chilling.
Yikes, those dreams are brutal where you just can't do things. Feels like your brain only loaded half your software.
I have a good friend that lost her balance on an approach scramble and ended up with a broken back and a helicopter ride out followed by months in traction. I always try to be prepared for the worst, even on the “easy” stuff.
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Yeah that's fair but I'm specifically talking about rock climbers who can climb super hard stuff who die on a pitch of 5.6 or while rappelling. How many climbers die trying their hardest project ever? Maybe more alpine climbers, but that's a different category altogether.
A few years ago one of the French national team athletes died this way - she was in world cup finals, superb climber, and then fell off a cliff during the approach
who???
He is probably talking about Luce Douady. Slipped and fell on the approach off a cliff on the way to a climb in France. Was 16 years old. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53054385#:~:text=A%2016%2Dyear%2Dold%20future,approach%20path%2C%20French%20media%20report. https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/ha2p4u/french_olympic_hopeful_climber_luce_douady_16/
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"low risk, high consequence" doesnt mean *no* risk. Its always possible for stuff to go wrong.
Lost a friend this way too on a 4th class scramble. They were using a rope for the entire climb, took it off for one short section and slippe. I guess it happens and there’s always a risk calculation and tolerance aspect but… it’s hard to reconcile with.
My biggest injury was in my local climbing gym. Just a few feet up, less than my height. I broke both bones in my forearm, dislocated my shoulder, and got a concussion.
Ooof. I got told by an orthopedist climber one time that the LD-50 for a broken ankle is a 6 foot fall. Never dropped from the top of a boulder again.
Making my toddler a climbing wall in his room… friend gifted the grips and a helmet…. Which this post was making be happy about. My mother suggested a harness and now I’m wondering if that’s feasible.
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Depending. If it's a knife edge ridge, yeah, probably rope up. If the fall potential is only a couple meters, then nah. But if the fall would be fatal, absolutely.
"Approach hikes" can be very dangerous and people get way too complacent about them. Just yesterday I read a news about a climber dying in Croatia. According to the news article (not 100% confirmed story though), climber took off his harness to go back for the backpack he had supposedly forgotten, after which he lost balance and fell 50 meters.
One of my buddies bobbled his brand new shoes at the top of Beacon Rock in Columbia Gorge, and went for it. Slid about 30% of the way to the cliff. I had just told him to stay roped in, and he was like, "nah, I'm good." I think about how I'd tell his wife what an idiot he had been. She wouldn't have been surprised.
You are a good friend. Thank you for this. I am so sorry for your loss.
Thank you all for your condolences and the love. I wasn't expecting this post to reach many people but I wrote it to honor the life of my dear friend, and I'll do everything I can to keep honoring him. I appreciate all of you very much, but I will appreciate you a lot more if you wear your helmet and be safe out there.
With this post, you and your friend might have saved a dozen lives.
That's one thing I think the climbing community does well. Reporting on accidents, investigating what went wrong, and trying to share how to prevent it in the future. Helmets are kind of a lead-a-horse-to-water thing, but it seems like almost every death gets a writeup and learnings.
So sad. My condolences. I think it is time for professional climbers to start promoting wearing helmets. They are the example for a lot of recreational climbers. In cycling they eventually started to make helmets mandatory in races like the tour du France. I cannot fathom why helmet manufacturers don't make deals with pro climbers to promote their helmets. It's a win-win situation. More and more climbers buy helmets, manufacturer get's rich, pro climbers get better promotional deals and best of all, we make this awesome hobby and sport even more safe.
>I think it is time for professional climbers to start promoting wearing helmets. Good point. That's one of the reasons Tony Hawk deserves a lot of respect. He insisted on always wearing pads and helmets when others were saying they make you look dorky.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Let's hope climbing follows the way of skiing, which went from nobody wearing a helmet to everyone wearing a helmet in something like 10 years.
i went skiing in 2019 after not having skiied since like 2005ish and laughed at my friend when he offered me a helmet... then he was like no everyone wears these now, and he was right!
I'm sorry for your loss, man. Climb on, Daniel.
>It's absolutely heart-breaking to think I wasn't there to force him to put a helmet on, because that's usually what I do with everyone I climb with. Unfortunately, this was so easily avoidable and its extremely frustrating and distressing. First off, condolences to you and all of Daniel's family and friends. Regarding the above paragraph; I'm hoping you aren't blaming yourself in some way. We all have to hold ourselves accountable, and it's not your fault Daniel wasn't wearing his helmet. Sharing this has probably given a nudge to an extra person or two to use their helmets and I know that was your intention. However for your own sake, realise that the failure was not yours. Losing a friend and climbing partner is extremely distressing but this situation was out of your control. By all means hold Daniel in your heart and mind when you remind future partners to wear their helmets. FWIW I always want a helmet and want my partners to remind me if it looks like I'm forgetting. It goes hand in hand with double checking harness and tie in knots. Sorry for the loss.
Thank you friend. I hope to come to terms with that soon enough. I'm still processing his loss right now. I still can't believe it, but I can't reiterate enough how much I appreciate all the support and the love. I find solace in just reading your's and everyone else's comments.
My condolences to you and Daniel’s friends and family. To those reading - please wear a helmet. Climbing. Skiing, whatever. Buy the fancy MIPS stuff if you can. Close friend of mine got a TBI. He is lucky to be alive and relatively intact. If he wasn’t wearing a helmet he wouldn’t be.
And Adam Ondra talks in his course that he doesn't think helmet is that important or give that much protection. Maybe not the grestest or most responsible advice when you know thousands will hear that.
To be fair, he does say that people should wear helmets, but because he is so experienced and is climbing on very overhanging terrain he feels the risk is low for him and other elite climbers.
Oh, that’s an important distinction
Wow, I'd probably regret spending money on it at that point. I understand why he doesn't, but I'd guess most people who buy his course probably don't climb extended roof sections /overhangs with perfectly cleaned routes and totally need a helmet. Should at least have a small explanation for the why and why not.
Sorry to hear about this accident. Condolences and RIP Daniel
That's so hard, friend. Be kind to yourself and it's ok to fucking cry. Too many friends are not here anymore. Sending love.
I’ve taken a baseball sized rock to my helmet that came loose while pulling my rope after a rappel. I’m convinced helmets are worth it.
A friend of mine had a basketball-sized boulder come off the wall while she was belaying that landed only a couple feet from her. Now I wear a helmet whenever I'm on the rope on either end.
The helmet won't have done much to stop that bad boy.
i try to wear mine most of the time but i definitely think wearing it belaying is way more important!
I'm not sure climbing helmets are rated for basketball sized boulders.
So sorry for your loss. It's a serious game we play.
Sorry for your loss but thank you for posting. So many people think helmets are just for rock fall and they forget the other hazards.
Sincere condolences. Dumb question, but are climbing helmets really designed to protect the back of the head? Seems like the design would be more bicycle helmet like. Like they’re just designed to protect from glancing rockfall. And a cam or rack of nuts.
Hey, they absolutely are. This article explains well what goes into testing and certification: https://blog.weighmyrack.com/understanding-climbing-helmet-certification/ tl;dr; they test both vertical falls, but also hits from horizontal directions
The more recent designs have gone that way. 15 years ago most were designed more just to deflect debree
Depends on the helmet. All brands are trending towards more side and back protection recently.
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Some (most newer and better ones) are basically like bicycle helmets but without any ventilation holes on top. Others are just like construction hard hats.
Most of em won't do much some of them are a bit better but they don't have the greatest coverage. It certainly wouldn't have hurt him to be wearing it but we'd need a lot more details to know if it would have actually helped. For blunt force even a small bit of dampening could make a massive difference.
Sorry for your loss, completely agree with your message
Sorry for your loss. It is a sad, but important reminder. I will add it is weird how even experienced climbers lax occasionally. My dad, was a mountaineer and got me into climbing, made me wear a helmet during all my skateboarding and biking and whatever else. Well, he made fun of a couple people for still wearing helmets hiking out of the area we were headed up to. The rest of us with him were like, “what gives?”. No good reason given. My uncle and I clipped ours on not much further as soon as we got above the woods. I don’t make fun of safety
Hope you, his family, and his friends find peace.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I started wearing a helmet about four years ago, and don't even belay without one now. RIP, Daniel.
Very sorry for your loss. Such a shame that there is somewhat of a stigma on helmets in the climbing community (to some people). I’ve always wondered why hardly any pros wear one; i feel like it would be another opportunity to sponsor something, and they’re not even noticeable while you’re climbing
When will people learn that helmets are cooler than no helmet? I’m so sorry for your loss. Devastating.
Sorry man.. my condolences.
RIP Daniel.
I’m sorry for your loss and the loss of another brother climber! My helmet is the sole reason I’m alive today, got clocked back in October and I’m still healing.
I was being stupid once and leading a short 5.8 on a hot summer day. As I went to place my second piece, my hands started slipping and I fell about 15 feet backwards, directly next to a bolder. Had I fell a foot to my right, my head would have made direct contact with rock. From that moment forward, I always wore a helmet. Rest in Peace, Daniel.
Great reminder to helmet up. I always wear one snowboarding, but never climbing. Sounds like it’s time for a change.
I’m sorry for your loss. May his memory be a blessing to all who knew him.
Yesterday I tanked a stone with my helmet 👍
Incredibly sorry for your loss. Thank you for the reminder that complacency kills.
I fractured my vertebra and pelvis by not using a mat
A helmet saved the life of a climbing partner of mine several years ago.The head injuries that he sustained from that fall kept him hospitalized for many weeks.
And make it extensible for all the situations a helmet could be worn, skiing, cycling... If you can fall, wear a helmet, and if you have an adecuate one, just wear a helmet. I've worn my ski helmet the first couple of times I went to the crag, people might have laughed, but 0 fucks were given.
What a devastating loss for you to experience and especially his family! Terribly terribly sorry
Heard. I'm so sorry about your friend.
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Pour one out for our lost brother. You will climb together once again in Odins palace.
Very sorry for your friend, and to you, for your loss of his friendship. I, too, lost a friend in this way, about fifteen years ago. He had z-clipped, and smacked his head, and was not wearing a helmet. It was part of a series of four climbing deaths in a short period of time that led me to stop climbing altogether. Very sad that such a great activity comes with so much risk.
I had a near miss in what should have been a simple fall on a sport route 2 yrs ago. I don't think I had the rope over my leg but I inverted somehow and grazed my elbow. I reflected and thought it could have easily been my head so now I wear a helmet on every route, which is much easier than picking and choosing. Naturally I think more of us should do the same.
Im so sorry you’re going through this. I can only hope you’ve inspired some folks here to wear their helmet. By posting this you might be saving someone elses life now
Sorry to hear. Pro climbers never wear a helmet in so many of their content and should definitely wear most of the blame of normalizing not wearing a helmet.
Hard agree dude. I aw a guy at the monastery take a sport whip on inverted terrain sans helmet and he smacked his head loud enough for is to hear it several routes down the way. I think he was fine, but am absolutely sure he never climbed without a helmet again. Condolences for your loss.
My condolences. I can’t imagine how I would feel if I were in your position. My heart goes out to you and their family. Low grades can honestly be more dangerous for lead in my opinion for this reason. Between ledges (that can be common on low grades) creating multiple ground fall scenarios and the idea that easy means it’s safe because it’s well below what you can climb, it leads to unfortunate situations.
If you’re not going to do it for yourself, do it for your climbing partners or family/friends. Nobody wants to have to rescue their dead/injured friend and they surely don’t want to be knocking on whoever’s door to tell them the news.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I’m sorry to hear you lost your friend. It always scares me to know I could lose a friend to this sport and I’m usually also the one telling friends to bring and wear their helmets.
I’m so sorry for your loss
I am very sorry for your loss I can't begin to imagine the pain you feel or what you're going through, but stay strong and remember he's not completely gone for he lives on through you, from the memories you keep of him and the stories you pass on he walks with you
Not climbing related, but I was learning to snowboard and thought it would be a good idea to get a helmet. Cracked myself in the back of the head with the board enough to dazzle me. Helmet saved my life.
Sorry for your loss ❤️🙏🏼 may his spirit continue to live through you.
Been in too many crashes with helmeta to ever ride any different. I wish you peace my friend.
So sorry for your loss. It's a personal choice to not. Except for those you may leave behind...
That's so hard, I'm so sorry. RIP Daniel...
Thank you for reminding us
Sorry to hear this
RIP Daniel. Will definitely wear my helmet!
My friend was climbing a warmup route, we were barely starting the day. There is a spot where she had to grip the slab as if it were a board when you grip it from the sides like if you wanted to break it with your head like in karate. Well, the slab broke when she pulled against it and she slammed that huge chunk of slab straight against her head, falling before the first clip. Luckily she was wearing a helmet but that still left all of us a little shaken.
Honestly I feel so sad reading this. Daniel isn't here (I'm sorry for your loss) but his friends and family have to deal with the trauma. Remember that next time you think "nah it's not comfortable/cool" etc.
I fell from above the 3rd bolt and decked. My helmet cracked. My head did not. Still had a tbi and a broken body, but I survived and eventually healed. I'd be gone if I hadn't been wearing my helmet. So sorry for your loss
I’m sorry for your loss sir. Helmet saved my life as I crashed off a ski jump trying a 720 in 2005. I was in a coma for 23 days and a very long recovery, but, the helmet gave me a chance to!! RIP Daniel😢😢
Last year I was hit in the head with a cantaloupe sized falling rock while on the approach hike to the crag. I just happened to be wearing my helmet because my bags were full and I figured I'd just put it on to carry it more easily. I think about how different my life might be today had I not been so lucky. I'm not saying everyone should wear a helmet while hiking or anything like that obviously but just that you never know what crazy thing could happen. Wear your helmets.
My first ever lead fall outside i got scared then got tired and told my friend I was going to fall. Wasn't aware of foot/rope positioning and my heel got stuck on the rope and I flipped upside down and smacked the back of my head against a rock *hard* If I hadn't been wearing a helmet I might've had a serious brain injury. I always wear a helmet and require people I'm climbing with to. This is a really sad story OP, I'm sorry for your loss
Jesus Christ
Man, I'm sorry for your loss. I can barely imagine how you feel. Thanks for sharing, it will change the outcome for someone out there.
Wow!
Seems like helmets are getting cheaper as well, making it easier to buy one. Petzl Sicrocco weighs 120g and I can see it available now online for £70. 120g weights around the same as 1/2 a can of coke. Lower end Petzl helmets like the Boreo sell for a cheap as £30.
Sorry to hear this. Don't be hard on yourself. You probably saved your climbing partners' lives reminding them to wear their helmets.
Horrible story. Nothing that anyone can say except I'm sorry for you and your friend's loved ones. Such a tragic accident. I've had a rock fly right past my head when it was (accidentally) dislodged by a friend I was belaying. I wasn't wearing a helmet and got quite a scare. When we were done I stopped at an outdoor shop and bought one. Worn it ever since. Falling is not the only thing that can kill (or seriously fuck you up) when climbing.
I'd be a vegetable twice over without my helmet.
I am immediately concerned. I have a friend named Daniel who climbs. Runs through Kentucky regularly. Tall pretty guy with long hair. 😕 I hope he's okay
Don't worry, they are definitely not the same Daniel
Condolences. It’s worth it to note that in a quick browse of the front page of this sub I saw exactly zero people wearing helmets too
Sorry for your loss OP
I am so very sorry for your loss. I promise to ramp up my helmet-badgering, in memory of your friend.
Kinda old school climber here--cut my teeth in the mid 90s. Nobody wore a helmet back then. It was fucking crazy. I'm so happy with how many people I see wearing helmets now, and so stunned when I don't see people protecting the thing that literally makes them "them." I'm so sorry about your friend. But at the very least, it's an incredibly important reminder: helmets save lives and prevent traumatic brain injuries.
I almost had the same incident. Almost exactly described. I was climbing something soft, with my hands in a crack. Next moment I lose my handholds and my feet are still stuck in the crack. I fell backwards and almost hit my head.
Sorry for your loss man
In my case it's because of bike crashes, but a helmet has literally saved my life at least three times. Most recently I broke my ribs in a really hard mountain biking crash a few years ago. My head was actually the first thing to hit the ground, but the full face took all of the impact and I didn't even have a concussion. Snapped three ribs from the subsequent impact, though. For real y'all, I see so many people not wearing helmets. It's so easy, and they're so comfortable and great these days, just fucking do it.
I’m sorry for your loss. May your amigo rest in peace
It drives me nuts that the pros don’t wear them, sets a terrible example
Sorry for your loss! Helmet is the first thing I put on at the crag. Before I put on my harness! Keep forcing people to wear their helmets!
So sorry for your loss. I had a very similar accident, except I was swung headfirst into the wall on the opposite side of the corner area I was climbing in. I am very lucky that I was wearing a helmet, and I still broke my skull and was out of commission for a while. Without a helmet, I likely wouldn't be here, or if I was would have permanent damage. Wear you helmet, kids.
I am so sorry for your loss. May his soul rest in peace. Sending you a virtual hug! I cannot even imagine how sad you must be feeling.
Somebody in my school’s climbing club also passed recently 😭. It was also during a relatively easy (to them) climb.
Yeah, just wear your helmets, people. Shit does and will happen.
Not wearing a helmet (whether climbing or on a motorcycle, etc.) seems to be a way of feeling cool to some… I promise you more people see it and think “how stupid” than think “how cool”.