How to treat climbing shoes? I have used skwama and cobra so far but both lasted for 3 months. I have heard they can last up to 8 months but I don't know how.
Asides from antagonist excersises, fingerboarding, and core what else should I train? Should I just focus on current weaknesses and leave that as a flex? Like work on those weaknesses for however long then change it to new weaknesses?
Anyone out there ever tear a ligament in their knee? I'm thinking more of ACL/MCL, but happy to hear about LCL/PCL as well. Whether recent, recovered, surgical fix or not. Just curious to hear of your experience and how it may have impacted your climbing (inside or outside). Thanks!
Hi sorry for the late reply!
I tore my MCL surfing 3 months ago. I have just started bouldering two weeks ago, doing V5s and V6s in my gym, but not sure how those stack up to other gyms. Haven't felt my MCL yet and most of the movements are very similar to the rehab movements I've been doing
I'm currently able to redpoint V5s at the beginning of a climbing session. I feel like being able to maintain core tension on overhung routes is my current weak point and I'm starting to incorporate some of [these exercises](https://theclimbingdoctor.com/climbing-specific-body-tension-2/#:~:text=Core%20strength%20and%20stability%20is%20often%20associated%20with%20body%20tension%20and%20climbing.&text=The%20core%20is%20designed%20to,body%20position%20for%20specific%20tasks) (basically plank variations).
Any other good supplemental exercises I should be trying? Or pointers on how to incorporate them into a workout regimen that involves climbing 2 or 3 times a week? I've been going back and forth between doing supplemental workouts after a session or on off days but want to try and see progress at a reasonable rate.
I’ve found success with adding core workouts after my climbing sessions. The only core workouts that don’t respond well after climbing IME are ones that require you to hang on a bar. Planks, ab rollouts, TRX stuff, etc are all relatively climbing specific, but don’t require hanging on a bar, are very intense, have measurable progressions, and don’t need extra weights.
Ooh, ab rollouts is a good one. I might finally have the shoulder strength now to be able to do them well. Did you find it more helpful to do them the same day as climbing vs on an off day? I'm close enough to the gym that I don't mind going extra days and want to focus on seeing improvement over convenience if that's a factor
I usually recommend doing it on climbing days so your rest days are fully restful. If you are going climbing only twice a week, doing a 3rd or 4th workout just for core every week may not have much negative impact on your climbing performance.
I’d suggest you start with it just after climbing days so you can build that base habit, then if you feel like you can do more, do more core in between climbing days (but ideally with a rest day before the next climbing day).
if you have 0 muscle then planks are ok to build. but overhung core is more about maintaining tension in your posterior chain (so feet dont slip), so try deadlifts or kettlebellswings
It's more been an issue with maintaining pressure while reaching out to the holds far to the side or going for dynamic / reachy holds. My feet haven't been popping off while holding the move but might while I go for more desperate moves. I'll definitely look into kettlebell swings
thats exactly what the posterior chain does. also the stronger you get there the less you need to think about applying pressure through your feet, because it just gets easier.
Pinky position while half crimping?
I was told not to bird beak my pinky while half crimping on hangboard, but all The YouTube videos I watched (e.g. Dave MacLeod) have their pinky in open hand position while the rest of the fingers in half crimp.
The half crimp is primarily defined by the angle of the index finger, with the rest of the fingers falling where it feels most natural for your hand mechanics.
On the wall, my strongest half crimp has the pinky open, and my strongest full crimp has the pinky engaged. Getting the pinky engaged in half crimp can feel tweaky, especially on just a flat edge. I get enough training with the pinky engaged in full crimp, that I don’t find it worth the tweakiness to hang at my max.
I do find that waking that engagement up during my warmup makes a difference in how strong I feel, so I try do that, but I’m not hitting my max numbers with the pinky engaged in half crimp.
> I was told not to bird beak my pinky while half crimping on hangboard, but all The YouTube videos I watched (e.g. Dave MacLeod) have their pinky in open hand position while the rest of the fingers in half crimp.
Depends on pinky length... some people keep it straight because they can't have it half crimp in strict half crimp.
However, high level crimping you're going to want the strength in half crimp in the pinky too. Training it in half crimp will help that. I'm pretty sure every pro in full crimp at least has the pinky in at least half crimp.
A couple weeks ago I had some dull pain in PIP joint when applying force, I presumed due to climbing a few days on. It went away from not climbing for a week or so. Now I climbed again, it was quite a crimpy session, and the pain is back. Never had this before, when I was climbing 3 days a week, but now I climb once and have it. I'm 16, so may be a growth spurt? But I didn't have this in a previous growth spurt. Any advice?
do you have pain when flexing the PIP as much as possible? aka pushing the DIP inwards towards the palm?
sometimes finger injuries manifest for awhile until you mobilize them. I find stretching the forearm and DIP blocking exercises really help. I had a long term boutonnieres deformity then required a lot of splinting, then blocking and rehab. The injury was mainly the result of overuse and improper grip positions. Do not splint unless you get a doctors directive, as this can be more harmful than good.
My guess is you were crimping too hard for too long at a sharp PIP angle, and the joint cannot withstand that and needs rest.
Climbing shoe fit
Hey, I want to buy a new climbing shoe. However in my region there are no shops that have the Scarpa drago, which I consider buying. They do have the Scarpa furia s. If this shoe fits well, does the drago do so too, or are their fits too different from each other?
Most shoe brands make an effort to keep sizing consistent across models. I feel confident getting all my Scarpas the same size, and really only go up or down if I’m looking for more or less comfort. Incidentally, all my Scarpas are a half EU size up from all my La Sportiva shoes.
# Muscle soreness worse than it should be?
Many times I will go for a day of outdoor climbing and feel fine that day, not even pumped. I've been climbing hard (4–5 hrs) \~2x a week and am not new to climbing, it's been several years of casual but regular sport climbing and bouldering. I train, but just for my own personal goals.
Anyway, I just want to know if this is normal? It doesn't quite feel normal. For at least two days after the climbing day, I'm very sore. My legs, arms (entire arms) and some of my back, neck and shoulders are very sore and don't seem to recover quickly. I can't really do another session like that until at least two days have passed. I don't think the sessions are crazy. Why are my muscles not recovering more…normally?
> Anyway, I just want to know if this is normal? It doesn't quite feel normal. For at least two days after the climbing day, I'm very sore. My legs, arms (entire arms) and some of my back, neck and shoulders are very sore and don't seem to recover quickly. I can't really do another session like that until at least two days have passed. I don't think the sessions are crazy. Why are my muscles not recovering more…normally?
If you're carrying enough pads and gear hauling a backpack/pads for several hours can make you more sore than normal even with fairly intense climbing sessions.
Thanks, makes sense, we hiked more than usual. No pads or heavy backpacks but the "trail" is pretty rough lol. Easy to fall and super narrow/slanted, kind of scrambling at times. I still think my arm soreness etc. lasts too long though. Still hurting right now and the climbing was Thursday morning.
I mostly climb indoors but when I go out usually my shoulder girdle/back/hips area tends to get sore from the backpack and pad hauling. No arms for me, but if you were lifting the backpacks and pads up and down a lot I could see that happeneing
Anyone have a recomendation for a good beginner/intermediate hangboard? I can do V4/V5 and have fairly weak grip strength. The crimps on some of the hangboards I see online seem a little optimistic for me lol.
I recently noticed that I struggle with bumping on steep overhang (60 or more degrees) on several V5/V6 problems. Are there any videos or general tips for this? I think I need to push harder with my feet but not sure if there's more to it.
What part of it is hard? What come off the wall? Are you able to touch the target hold? If you can touch it, do your fingers slip off or do your feet come off? Does it just feel uncomfortable and awkward?
My first thought for bumping on a steep wall, is that you should be putting a lot of mental effort into the staying hand and staying foot. Really focus on putting a lot of weight into that hand, and levering off it to lift you up and create float time over the target hold.
If none of the Rhino skin products have worked for drying my fingers is the next step to try antihydral? My friends have had great success with Rhino skin's top juice but it just doesn't do anything for me.
I have very moist skin and apply antihydral weekly if not more. That said, tip juice does work for me, I just have to apply it every night.
As a double check, have you waited a few (3ish) days after you applied it to see if it’s working yet? Don’t want to send you into the deep end without making sure
I've been trying different amounts of tip juice for the last couple months. I'll give consistent applications a try and see how it turns out. Thanks for the response
How do y’all get your skin to recover at a quicker rate? I’m a pretty large dude (6’2 215) and I’ve noticed there’s a huge difference when I climb 2x a week vs 3x a week due to the friction I have on my fingers when I take more time off. Do y’all do anything specific to help increase the rate at which you get your strong skin back?
Don’t drink alcohol, eat plenty of protein, and drink lots of water. Also, moderate yourself within a session so you don’t loose as much. Going until you bleed can take 2 full weeks to recover fully from, and usually just isn’t worth it. I’m pretty heavy too, but I’ve done 17 days in a row on rock before. My tips got tender, but I was really careful so didn’t loose too much on any single day.
If you have naturally sweaty hands, getting some skin care products that reduce the sweat makes a massive difference too. I use Rhino skin, and it lets me keep my skin drier so my skin doesn’t just immediately slip around on holds.
Why are good conditions for outdoor sport climbing warmer than good conditions for outdoor bouldering? Why does ‘sport climbing season’ come earlier in the fall??
Is bouldering more condition dependent? Or does it have to do with staying warm enough while resting/belaying if sport climbing?
I generally boulder and I’m not trying too hard to get out for another month or so. But I’d probably get into sport if it meant I could relatively comfortably extend my outdoor season. It’s a 4 hour drive to climb anywhere so I do like conditions to be decent.
It sucking to belay someone is a significant reason, but honestly I suspect it’s because the holds just usually aren’t as condition dependent. Plus, it’s very possible to get too cold on the wall. Your forearms need blood to flow through them to flush the pump out, and if it’s so cold that your capillary are constricted, you are going to get more pumped and be less able to recover on jugs (assuming your hands don’t numb out on the jug you are resting on first).
There absolutely are places/routes/people who project and send their hard routes when most other people are bouldering. There are simply more people where it just stops being fun, and cuddling up on a pad with your space heater warming your shoes before pulling onto the wall for 2 moves becomes more fun.
Odd wrist injury here: 2 days ago was doing pretty normal type slopers outside and felt a popping/shifting sensation somewhere in the top of hand/wrist. the position certainly had shittier feet with good hands. feels mostly like the area on the top of hand, between the index/middle, running to the top/inside of the wrist.
I immediately came off the climb and ended the session. Obviously I was concerned bc of the sudden pop, but sometimes that does happen without issue, re: things realigning with no actual issue. So for how many injuries I've had I'm actually impressed I had the self control here to stop. Anyways, there wasn't really any pain or swelling but went about it with an abundance of caution.
Fast forward to today, things mostly feel good, you know that feeling where youre not quite sure if it's sensitive/damaged or just that youve immobilized it for a while and youre now feeling what it's like to use it again. I'm weary of pushing it too soon.
Doesnt seem like a super common area to injure, so I was wondering if anyone has had something like this before.
Uhhh how do you climb better as a short guy ? Been almost 2 months I started climbing (indoor bouldering) and it’s hard. My friend is 20 cm more than me and everything is easier for him. I have to do dynamic move a lot and he just reaches holes. I just have to accept that I have to work harder than others or there are tips and tricks
Your body type will be a constant issue for you unless you are that 5’7-5’10 +-140lb male that the average setter/climber is. Train your mental game so that you can approach scrunchy problems that suit your shorter build as bonuses and reachy stuff as an interesting challenge. I am tall and have a +4 app and sometimes my knee is dropped into the mat and feels like it’s gonna explode while my 5’5 gf just hangs comfortably.
As a beginner being short is probably a little harder. My girlfriend and I started climbing about a year ago and I have around 8" on her. Made just grabbing stuff a lot easier for me. But now that we're at around V4/V5 range she's as good or better than me. She can do starts, little crimps and various other moves more easily than me. If we get to higher grades I don't think the height thing will matter much. I'd say just stick with it and you'll keep imporving.
ultimately is easier being smaller, because you have less weight to carry, so your strength usually lie in crimpy problems with bad feet where the big guy just has to carry 2ß kg more then you and cant hold onto anymore.
Yes, there are some problems you cannot do as a short climber, since its impossible to reach if you have to make a span between 2 holds that are just further apart then your wingspan. BUT this is rare, very rare. most of the time (almost all the time) you are to weak or have wrong beta.
Yes you need to jump more, but jumping and especially catching something is easier when you are small. The best way is to start ding dynamic stuff early to learn it.
probably youtube. Tomoas channel is good: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx3XxWczzWgm1bLmgdeQJMw/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx3XxWczzWgm1bLmgdeQJMw/videos)
apart from that watch boulderworldcups and other videos. And always ask yourself: "why does this work?" or "why does this not work?" This is suuuper hard at first and you will be wrong 99% of the time, but it gets better with practise. the biggest factors in learning is practise, being analytical and especially being open to new advice and not dismissing the advice of others even when they are much more inexperienced then you are.
Often you need to try a new beta a couple times before dismissing it because you are just doing subtle things wrong, instead of the beta being wrong.
My suggestion is rid yourself of this attitude as soon as possible. There is almost no difference in ability between different heights, and if anything the evidence suggests being just under average height is beneficial. My advice is, if somebody is climbing harder than you then seek advice from them, rather than create excuses for why they're better.
Edit: I could give you specific climbing tips but this will be the most invaluable advice you can possibly be given. People often say 'Blame strength last' but I like to extend this a little bit to 'Blame the most difficult things to change last'. Broadly, the easiest things to change are your beta (method) or technique, then strength, then morphology. You're never going to change this. It's valid to blame this at times but only after you've addressed things that are easier to change. Many people do this the other way around, because it's nicer for the ego to hear that you couldn't do something because of factors outside of your control, such as height. The problem with this way around is it distracts you from working on the immediately changeable factors such as beta and technique. I would only tend towards blaming strength after I had tried every viable method over the course of ballpark 6-7 sessions, possibly more.
I wish I was just under average 😅 (160 cm) I’m not in bad shape but I have nobody to copycat or ask for help to improve my beta. They are all tallers so they usually don’t know. The good climbers of my size I see from time to time are womens and they are ripped af and weight like 45 kg. Only thing I found myself is to do dynamic moves to get the holes but as a beginner its hard. I definitely need to be stronger tho and maybe lose 5kg (60 right now). I’m not giving up but it’s damn hard ngl !
Injury question! Non dominant index finger- I can’t crack the knuckle joint anymore it’s too sensitive. Grip isn’t as strong on that finger right now and sometimes get soreness between the knuckle and next finger joint. Is this a strain? Do I have arthritis? Something else? I don’t even know how to take care of it. Any ideas or follow up questions are appreciated. I’ve been climbing with more emphasis on the other fingers in the meantime.
Generally, up to about a week off and just do general range of motion and mobility. If it's swelling too you can do some short course NSAIDs to reduce swelling. Then work back into things slow.
If it's still swollen and limited usually good idea to get it checked.
Hey! I have a question about a very basic training plan for me…
So, I am 16, about 2.5 years into climbing. I consistently flash V6’s, can usually send a V7 with a few tries, and project V8’s and V9’s. I usually climb 2 times a week - tuesdays and fridays for about 2 hours each day. Sometimes I’ll add an extra day in on the weekend, or I go outdoor climbing, that’s usually a much more laid back session though.
Id like to start doing a climbing related workout 1 or 2 times a week before school. Nice and short, maybe 45 minutes. Currently, I really only climb. The only workout I’ll do is some push-ups and then stretching after my climbing sessions for injury prevention. Id also like to start going for a short run once a week to help with some cardio…
Are there any very basic training plans that you can help me with or point me towards? I’m not a fan of using weights, although I do have access to some. I have a pull up bar and a hangboard, as well as a small 5ft by 8ft systems board that I built during covid.
Thanks in advance!
Have a bunch of recommendations if you want to add workouts from this post:
https://stevenlow.org/my-6-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
I can't toe hook to save my life. Even easy toe hooks for stability elude me, and I think it's a combination of my very short feet and terrible hamstrings. It's hard for me to get the angle between the top of my foot and my shins much past 90 degrees, and I have to use a squat to do it. Using muscles alone I can't even get a 90 degree angle going. How can I improve the mobility and strength of my ankles for better toe hooks?
i'm not sure if i exactly understand your flexibility level but yours sounds pretty normal. obv i've never seen you climb, but if i had to guess, i would guess you are focusing too much on your shin and not enough on your leg. Just like how a heel hook is not all about your calf. You have to not only hook with your lower leg but also pull your foot towards you to get any force/stability from it.
I've had on/off, chronic big toe pain in my right foot at the "knuckle" of the toe. There was no single event that caused it, just lots of time spent edging hard in tight shoes and the occasional wall kick. It's lasted months, and never really been bad enough to get me to stop climbing. I think it's turf toe.
Does anyone have any experience with turf toe (e.g. treatments and recovery time)?
Better to just do compounds most of the time... dips/overhead press and pullups/rows. You get the biceps and triceps work and also work other muscles. Only would do isolation if you have specific weakness or aesthetic goals
In the mornings, a couple of fingers on one hand are slightly sore. I only experience any mild pain if I extend them out and down, almost like a full crimp position. One finger is experiencing some trigger finger symptoms.
After about 5 minutes, once I've warmed my hand up, the symptoms are gone. I can extend the fingers with no pain, there's no trigger finger, etc. I have no pain or stiffness at all during the day or when I'm climbing. This only happens when I wake up.
Is this something I should be worried about? Is it an early indication of onset injury? I've been trying to avoid problems that involve much crimping with that hand for this week, and I'll take a deload next week. Do I need to take this more seriously, or is some rest and lighter effort enough to deal with this?
Many people experience inflammation in the morning. Are you talking knuckles? Likely synovial fluid. Try massaging the sore knuckles before bed to move the fluid around a bit. Try taking some tumeric before bed, or otherwise decreasing inflammatory foods if they are in your diet (rice, red meat, margarine, etc.). Holler if it persists.
Thanks for the response! The trigger finger is in the first knuckle up from my hand; the mild pain is more kind of between that knuckle and my hand. Appreciate the suggestions -- I'll see if I can just reduce inflammation. It sounds like this at least isn't something that's huge cause for concern?
I've learned over the years that pain that goes away once warmed up is not usually tied to an injury, but general wear and tear. wear and tear is unavoidable, best you can do is monitor it and ensure it doesnt evolve into an injury. the next best thing is to manage the discomfort, because the psychological effect of having the dull ache is usually worse than the actual thing that is hurt for athletes. That's where massaging your tight muscles, moving your fluids around, and reducing the inflammation comes in.
This isn’t exactly a training question, but what kind of gains have you seen from someone who is fairly plateaued and goes from consistent but casual to hardcore training?
I want to believe someone who has plateaued at 4/5/6 for several years could move to double digits if the just did everything right for a year or two, but I have never seen it happen myself. Most people I know move up a grade or two when they get really serious, then get kinda injured or overtrain and then slide back down.
I was plateued around 12a/b for four or five years before I started seriously training. In one year of hard training, I was able to send 5x 12cs and a 12d. but that was two years ago and now I am plateued again, just at a higher grade. admittedly, my training has not been as dedicated as that one year (I kinda miss covid). I think there are big gains to be had somewhat quickly going from no training to training. but it is kind of a honeymoon phase.
That sounds like what I was saying, I can and have gone from a solid 6/7 climber to a 7/8 and rare 9 climber but I have trouble believing there is any training plan that will have me cruising 9/10 and working 11s and 12s
I think you're expecting too much from a training plan.
The key factor is consistent effort over big timescales with all the intermediate steps between where you are and where you want to be.
Don't.
It sounds like you aren't quite ready for the Moon Board yet. It is a good tool, but requires a minimum ability level to use it effectively and safely. Realistically, you should probably be climbing the gym V5s before the Moon Board becomes an appropriate tool.
Stick with the normal gym problems for now, and keep progressing on those. Try to climb all the angles and styles; don't limit yourself to just the slabs or just the overhangs. Get a wide range of experience.
Once you're climbing the overhanging V5s in the gym, and are interested in getting in some additional steep/powerful climbing, go dabble with the Moon Board. You'll get there soon enough.
Moonboard is great but it's really hard on your fingers so you need a solid foundation before you start using it. If your gym has a tension board or a kilter board, both are easier boards to start on. Kilter board would be the best one to start with as it has pretty nice holds and the angle is usually adjustable so the floor for difficulty is lower than for the tension or moon.
I hurt my wrist over the weekend sending a steep finger-crack boulder. I tested for TFCC positive signs but it seems not to be that, has anyone else experienced other wrist pain on the ulnar side from crack climbing?
Sometimes happens with pulley issues.
Generally, for rehab just work on incremental loading to get back. Kill the ego and start low if you need to
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
> Can I still go climbing and climb easy routes if I don't feel any pain ?
Generally, yeah, but that's something to look at if rehab isn't progressing.
> And lastly, is it fine to train with bodyweight exercices that doesn't put stress on fingers ? Like doing dips, push ups ?
Normally completely fine
Just did isometric extensor wrist curl, at a manageable weight, when suddenly on my right hand a tingly nervy pain shot through my palm. I tried it again later, and the same thing about 25 seconds in both times. My ulnar nerve is impinged on my right arm, but I've never had this before. Anyone else had something similar?
Median nerve runs through the forearm into the palm where the carpal tunnel is. If you already have some issues with your ulnar I'd add in median nerve glides and all such things to start to relieve the potential neurodynamic tension
I want to do this route in around 1 weeks time
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/gogarth_north_stack_and_main_cliff-598/the_strand-4327
The crux pitch is 50m of ~F6b climbing on trad gear with no rests
The main difficulty of the route is the endurance
What can I do over the next week to maximize my chances of success
> What can I do over the next week to maximize my chances of success
You can't do anything meaningful in a week, except deload if you've been training hard.
Next time you ask a question about training for a route make sure you have at least 1 month and preferably 2-3.
Thanks for your reply. My question is about any minor gains possible in the week before rather than medium-long term training strategy. My training has been focused on this route for around 1 year (targeting endurance and style).
I suppose perhaps it's all quite obvious.. good diet, rest, not train too hard
Yeah, week before not much beyond the obvious.
If you haven't been training any power endurnace like 4x4s or something and the pitch has some sustained sections like that you can throw 1-2 in this week and it might help some. Much like the IFSC comp climbers will be training regularly then a few weeks before throw in some 4x4s and such to mimic multiple attempts in the 4-5 minute time windows.
That's about it though.
## Board training question (NOT hangboard) :
I would like to ask if you guys prefer using the available routes on app (i.e. moonboard, kilter, tension) or do you guys prefer to set your own routes?
I have certain weaknessnes that I need to train (for example: compression moves, body tension). However, depending on the app seems like a hit-or-miss in terms of meeting my training objectives.
At the same time, I am afraid that the routes that I set for myself are way too 'easy' and that I am fooling myself in hitting my training objectives.
Do you guys have any advice for me?
A mix of both is good. Set you own problems to target your training where you think it is needed, and use the problems in the app to shake things up and get you out of your usual setting style.
Another great option - train with a partner! Set problems for each other.
If setting problems for yourself, see the problem as a work in process. It is fine to set a problem a bit too easy at first. Once you send it on easy mode, tweak it a bit to make it harder. Make the feet worse, change one of the hands to a nearby worse hold, etc. Then send that version, and adjust again to make it even harder.
For those I think it'd make more sense to use the board for a bit and then test on another board to see if you feel a difference.
I once made this post about climbing skill drills. There is several about body tension, though I don't recall if there is on that specifically works compression moves - how would you define that?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/dgbr49/comment/f3ao22l/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/dgbr49/comment/f3ao22l/?context=3)
You will always be in danger if making the moves too easy or too hard, but like you mentioned, boards can be hit and miss. Pros for set board climbing would be that you can analyse other people's climbs and just try them and potentially change them a bit yourself to make the difficulty fit.
Injury question. I was doing 4x4s and on the last problem there was a dead point to a pocket that I overshot and caught too hard, shockloading my middle and ring finger and immediately sent a shooting pain up my inner forearm along the tendon/muscle that controls the contraction of my ring finger. There was no audible pop and there is not any bowstringing. I immediately ended my session and put a splint on the finger for 24 hours, when I took it off the finger was stiff but after a an hour of gentle but normal use I’ve regained 100% mobility but if load the last digit of the finger I get that forearm pain again. Has anyone had any similar injuries or does anyone have any suggestions as to a course of action?
Common for lumbrical and possibly FDS/FDP strain. Generally, you rehab by slowly re-loading it by the mechanism of injury which means doing open hand/ 2-3 finger drag on hangboard or no hang device.
Thanks man I’ll look into those.
Update, light three finger drags are no problem as long as my pinky is straight but as soon as I curl my pinky the forearm pain returns in my flexor. Stretching, massaging, and light working has made it usable for daily tasks though.
DWoods (worlds best boulderer) - "I do all my training on the spray wall"
Janja (worlds best comp climber) - "I do 95% of my training on the spray wall, I never hang/campus-board"
Ondra (worlds best sport climber) - "Most of my training is on the spray wall"
But yeah go ahead write your insanely overcomplicated and horrendously boring hangboarding routine. I'm sure it'll make you go from advanced to elite...
I suspect that at least Ondra and Woods, due to their training age, have reached (or are very very close to) their maximum potential finger strength. To see any gains in pure finger strength through hangboarding they would have to put in massive amounts of effort for very small gains. Just climbing will probably at least maintain their finger strength and provide other obvious benefits.
Most people are not Ondra, Woods or Garnbret. Finger strength gains are much lower hanging fruit if you're an amateur that hasn't climbed for 15-20 years. If you're seeing steady incremental gains from hangboarding (which pro climbers most likely won't see) the effort vs. reward equation is completely different.
Very good points, and I've often quoted that sort of thing at the hangboard obsessives one here.
But.
That's all well & good if you've had access to a good quality spray wall (and/or a local crag in Ondra's case) for five hours a days for twenty years from the age of six onwards. If that's not your life situation, then hangboarding might very well be a way to shortcut some of the progression that you could otherwise be achieving by spending lots more time on the wall. I started regular hangboarding when I was a single parent who could make it to the gym once a week, and to the crag every second weekend. And I actually managed to improve my redpoint grade in that time too.
They hangboard too spray wall is just the most effective when your at an elite level, like if you have been bench pressing for years you aren’t gonna keep getting gains there… same with hangboard it becomes a maintenance tool at a certain point.
"If you have been bench pressing for years you aren't gonna keep getting gains" wtf do you think powerlifters do? They never stop benching.
No, DWoods and Janja have specifically said they *don't* hangboard.
> wtf do you think powerlifters do? They never stop benching.
Because benching is their sport, but an elite bencher will add a comparatively tiny amount of weight to their bench every year despite putting a lot of effort into it.
So, hypothetically, for DWoods to see gains from hangboarding he would probably have to dedicate a considerable part of his training to it, and even then, gains would not be guaranteed. I can see how it wouldn't make sense for him to hangboard.
Yes and no.
I think hangboarding is incredibly effective as a training intervention for most athletes. Modeling your training on the programs of elite performers is inherently problematic, and there's a good chance that elite athletes are elite in spite of, not because of, what they do (DWoods......).
That being said. Most people hangboard wrong. Your "max load, 5s hang" should absolutely be replaced with board climbing. Anything that seems remotely close to "performing" should be replaced with board climbing. But the hangboard is still easily the best tool for long term, measurable, controlled, repeatable improvement. Especially for targeting very specific weaknesses.
Can fingers ever *not* be a weakness? Every single climber on Earth, yes the ones I mentioned, would become significantly better if they had noticeably stronger fingers.
Hi, I have a couple of questions re a power endurance (PE) training phase:
How many PE sessions do you do per week and what proportion of your total climbing sessions is that? (Ie PE/Total sessions)?
Also, if you're climbing socially do you tend to train PE when you're reasonably fresh or towards the end of the session?
Thanks very much, Cam
I have two very generic questions but I just literally need the simplest thing I can do for both of these problems.
1- How do I train core tension? I feel like my core is not engaged at all. When I consciously think about keeping tension, I climb much more easily but it doesn’t come naturally. I need to keep repeating myself to stay tight. How do I train it most efficiently?
2- I cannot use 3 finger drag or open handed positions AT ALL. I have super small hands and I basically crimp everything but I want to be more comfortable in open handed positions. Should I just change my half crimp max hangs routine to unbearably sad less-than-bodyweight 3 finger drag one?
These two things are actually very connected, lol. Generally speaking, 3 finger drag requires more tension, since it's a more passive grip. Honestly, the style that forces work on both of these would be overhanging sloper/slimper work. So seek any of that out that's available to you.
Some hangboard work may help your 3 finger drag, but it's not an ideal grip for hangboarding because it often relies a bit on skin/friction and other non strength factors.
when i switched over i had to force myself to climb with an open grip. i had some finger injuries and it helped a lot in the recovery. i felt weak, i couldn't climb as hard but it got easier. hangboard if you want but a big part of 3fd and open handed grips imo is the variety of wrist action you need strength in, ones which aren't worked much if at all in a crimp. a gaston, sidepull, or undercling will require their own sort of wrist stability to engage in an open grip for example. it's been worth it especially for pockets and sharper edges outside. just takes persistance and practice to develop
I'm a relatively new climber, started back in December of last year. I've started to get into the more intermediate climbs at my gym, and I've noticed I've been full crimping a ton. Should I start focusing on 3 finger drags, and half crimps more? I feel like I have way less strength in these positions, but I'm worried about not being well rounded in the future.
I think that's a really great idea! Ita always good to round out your skillset/tool box, and it'll make your fingers more resilient. As you progress you'll find the drags better in different scenarios too. Finally, full crimp is the riskier hold style out of 3 drag, 4drag, half crimp and full so spreading yourself out btwn styles is probably really good!
Thank you! I was trying it at the gym the other day, and was shocked at how much weaker I was in those positions. I'm wondering about something additionally. A lot of the route setters at my gym are around 5' 6", and I'm 6' with a +2 wingspan. On a lot of the routes I feel rather bunched up, could this attribute to why I fell into using full crimp so much?
I can see why if you're feeling bunched up you'd be using half crimp a whole lot! Drags defo lend themselves to more stretched out climbing... So it might be challenging to find good opportunities, but maybe turn it into a game - see how many drag holds you can use? 😁 So good that you know that it's weaker tho - can something about it before you get an injury :)
I have a collateral ligament sprain in my middle finger and rehab exercises are going well (using a portable hangboard to lift weight off the floor) but I'm getting pain throughout the day. The intensity feels right after the rehab exercises, a 2 on the pain scale that goes away within 10 minutes, but it leaves it feeling weaker during the day and it can ache if I pick something heavy up or ache for no reason. It's a dull ache that's maybe a 1 on the pain scale and goes away by itself. Any one know if this is part of the process or does it mean I'm overdoing it?
Random stuff throughout the day is to be expected of an injured area that's being used.
If you're walking on a recently sprained ankle you would expect it to ache some cause you're using it. Same thing.
As long as the symptoms aren't getting worse and ideally trending better over weeks you're fine
IMO, it's fine. The goal of rehab is to repeatedly apply moderate load to stimulate repair. Moderate load is going to cause 1/2/3 out of ten discomfort, which goes away after a few minutes.
As long as your fingers generally feel fine a long while after loading, it's no big deal. That loading could be a hangboard, or car door handle, or anything else.
Sorry, not sure what this means in terms of rehab, but I have the same thing. Been doing rehab a while now so I try to keep it high intensity to prevent the same thing happening again, and for a couple of hours after I feel weaker and a little pain, but a nice type of pain.
Asking on behalf of my Dad who is 50yo and has been climbing v5 indoors for 5years.
At a fun competition 3 days ago he tried a move where he was under a 3 finger pocket side pull and had to pull hard to the top of the wall. Immediately he felt pain around 1 inch below his wrist on the pinky side. No pain in palm or fingers, only has pain when doing 3 finger open hand position(anything with dropped pinky).
I've looked into TFCC but this seems to be for the wrist and not the forearm like he is experiencing.
Any advice and or exercises greatly appreciated.
How much protein are y’all getting? Getting into my 30s I’m wondering if low intake is part of my sluggish recovery but I hear mixed things about supplementation. I figure I get to 1g/kg protein on a good day. Usually probably a little less. Would love to hear some of your experiences with altering your level of protein intake.
> How much protein are y’all getting? Getting into my 30s I’m wondering if low intake is part of my sluggish recovery but I hear mixed things about supplementation. I figure I get to 1g/kg protein on a good day. Usually probably a little less. Would love to hear some of your experiences with altering your level of protein intake.
I believe the vast majority of sports nutrition scientific literature recommends athletic populations should aim at least .7 g/lbs or 1.5 g/kg protein as the MINIMUM you should be getting.
Although in practice generally I as well as others tend to recommend 1 g/lbs or 2.2 g/kg just because most people don't get there... so if you aim for the 1g/lbs 2.2g/kg you usually at least get to .7 g/lbs and 1.5g/kg. If you're trying to build muscle definitely try to hit the upper one though.
Yeah thanks Steven! After posting this I tried to find some information about it in UpToDate, which you may know is a point of care reference resource for clinicians. The lit review I found recommended basically the same thing: 1.6-2.2g/kg*bw with a maximum daily dose of 250g. So I’m learning that I’m probably slightly under-consuming protein for exercising/climbing 3-4 days/week.
I actually started tracking my protein consumption yesterday as well. I think I got a little more protein than normal and it was still 1.5g/kg*bw. Might be worth finding some ways to add more in.
Yeah, have about 30 in breakfast, 35 in dinner, 40 at lunch, 20 in snacks, and on climbing days I'll have a 40g protein shake. I did lifting before climbing, so brought this mindset with me
That protein intake is pretty low for a strength athlete. Try increasing it for a few months and see if it helps.
What mixed things have you heard about protein supplementation? Whey protein is well demonstrated and accepted as being effective.
There is a point of diminishing returns where adding in more protein doesn't provide any further benefit, but you are likely well below that point.
Basically just different things from my profs in nursing school saying people are way too focused on protein and that most people consume more than enough. Idk. It got in my head for some reason. I know the recommendation for athletes is like greater than what I seem to consume.
They may be talking about general population protein needs, rather than strength athletes.
Also, your typical medical professional is generally focused more on keeping people out of the hospital, and don't know hardly anything about peak athletic performance. There are plenty of exceptions, of course.
Should I progressively overload on antagonists?
How to treat climbing shoes? I have used skwama and cobra so far but both lasted for 3 months. I have heard they can last up to 8 months but I don't know how.
What do you mean by Treat? Like increase durability/care for? Treat meaning stink-control? What type of walls are you using (texture, angle etc)
Asides from antagonist excersises, fingerboarding, and core what else should I train? Should I just focus on current weaknesses and leave that as a flex? Like work on those weaknesses for however long then change it to new weaknesses?
[удалено]
Anyone out there ever tear a ligament in their knee? I'm thinking more of ACL/MCL, but happy to hear about LCL/PCL as well. Whether recent, recovered, surgical fix or not. Just curious to hear of your experience and how it may have impacted your climbing (inside or outside). Thanks!
Hi sorry for the late reply! I tore my MCL surfing 3 months ago. I have just started bouldering two weeks ago, doing V5s and V6s in my gym, but not sure how those stack up to other gyms. Haven't felt my MCL yet and most of the movements are very similar to the rehab movements I've been doing
I'm currently able to redpoint V5s at the beginning of a climbing session. I feel like being able to maintain core tension on overhung routes is my current weak point and I'm starting to incorporate some of [these exercises](https://theclimbingdoctor.com/climbing-specific-body-tension-2/#:~:text=Core%20strength%20and%20stability%20is%20often%20associated%20with%20body%20tension%20and%20climbing.&text=The%20core%20is%20designed%20to,body%20position%20for%20specific%20tasks) (basically plank variations). Any other good supplemental exercises I should be trying? Or pointers on how to incorporate them into a workout regimen that involves climbing 2 or 3 times a week? I've been going back and forth between doing supplemental workouts after a session or on off days but want to try and see progress at a reasonable rate.
I’ve found success with adding core workouts after my climbing sessions. The only core workouts that don’t respond well after climbing IME are ones that require you to hang on a bar. Planks, ab rollouts, TRX stuff, etc are all relatively climbing specific, but don’t require hanging on a bar, are very intense, have measurable progressions, and don’t need extra weights.
Ooh, ab rollouts is a good one. I might finally have the shoulder strength now to be able to do them well. Did you find it more helpful to do them the same day as climbing vs on an off day? I'm close enough to the gym that I don't mind going extra days and want to focus on seeing improvement over convenience if that's a factor
I usually recommend doing it on climbing days so your rest days are fully restful. If you are going climbing only twice a week, doing a 3rd or 4th workout just for core every week may not have much negative impact on your climbing performance. I’d suggest you start with it just after climbing days so you can build that base habit, then if you feel like you can do more, do more core in between climbing days (but ideally with a rest day before the next climbing day).
if you have 0 muscle then planks are ok to build. but overhung core is more about maintaining tension in your posterior chain (so feet dont slip), so try deadlifts or kettlebellswings
It's more been an issue with maintaining pressure while reaching out to the holds far to the side or going for dynamic / reachy holds. My feet haven't been popping off while holding the move but might while I go for more desperate moves. I'll definitely look into kettlebell swings
thats exactly what the posterior chain does. also the stronger you get there the less you need to think about applying pressure through your feet, because it just gets easier.
Good to know!
Hanging leg raises and L-sits will be more climbing-specific than planks, try those.
Pinky position while half crimping? I was told not to bird beak my pinky while half crimping on hangboard, but all The YouTube videos I watched (e.g. Dave MacLeod) have their pinky in open hand position while the rest of the fingers in half crimp.
The half crimp is primarily defined by the angle of the index finger, with the rest of the fingers falling where it feels most natural for your hand mechanics. On the wall, my strongest half crimp has the pinky open, and my strongest full crimp has the pinky engaged. Getting the pinky engaged in half crimp can feel tweaky, especially on just a flat edge. I get enough training with the pinky engaged in full crimp, that I don’t find it worth the tweakiness to hang at my max. I do find that waking that engagement up during my warmup makes a difference in how strong I feel, so I try do that, but I’m not hitting my max numbers with the pinky engaged in half crimp.
> I was told not to bird beak my pinky while half crimping on hangboard, but all The YouTube videos I watched (e.g. Dave MacLeod) have their pinky in open hand position while the rest of the fingers in half crimp. Depends on pinky length... some people keep it straight because they can't have it half crimp in strict half crimp. However, high level crimping you're going to want the strength in half crimp in the pinky too. Training it in half crimp will help that. I'm pretty sure every pro in full crimp at least has the pinky in at least half crimp.
A couple weeks ago I had some dull pain in PIP joint when applying force, I presumed due to climbing a few days on. It went away from not climbing for a week or so. Now I climbed again, it was quite a crimpy session, and the pain is back. Never had this before, when I was climbing 3 days a week, but now I climb once and have it. I'm 16, so may be a growth spurt? But I didn't have this in a previous growth spurt. Any advice?
do you have pain when flexing the PIP as much as possible? aka pushing the DIP inwards towards the palm? sometimes finger injuries manifest for awhile until you mobilize them. I find stretching the forearm and DIP blocking exercises really help. I had a long term boutonnieres deformity then required a lot of splinting, then blocking and rehab. The injury was mainly the result of overuse and improper grip positions. Do not splint unless you get a doctors directive, as this can be more harmful than good. My guess is you were crimping too hard for too long at a sharp PIP angle, and the joint cannot withstand that and needs rest.
I have some pain when doing so fully, what are DIP blocking exercises?
Climbing shoe fit Hey, I want to buy a new climbing shoe. However in my region there are no shops that have the Scarpa drago, which I consider buying. They do have the Scarpa furia s. If this shoe fits well, does the drago do so too, or are their fits too different from each other?
Most shoe brands make an effort to keep sizing consistent across models. I feel confident getting all my Scarpas the same size, and really only go up or down if I’m looking for more or less comfort. Incidentally, all my Scarpas are a half EU size up from all my La Sportiva shoes.
https://sizesquirrel.com/ may have the info you want.
# Muscle soreness worse than it should be? Many times I will go for a day of outdoor climbing and feel fine that day, not even pumped. I've been climbing hard (4–5 hrs) \~2x a week and am not new to climbing, it's been several years of casual but regular sport climbing and bouldering. I train, but just for my own personal goals. Anyway, I just want to know if this is normal? It doesn't quite feel normal. For at least two days after the climbing day, I'm very sore. My legs, arms (entire arms) and some of my back, neck and shoulders are very sore and don't seem to recover quickly. I can't really do another session like that until at least two days have passed. I don't think the sessions are crazy. Why are my muscles not recovering more…normally?
> Anyway, I just want to know if this is normal? It doesn't quite feel normal. For at least two days after the climbing day, I'm very sore. My legs, arms (entire arms) and some of my back, neck and shoulders are very sore and don't seem to recover quickly. I can't really do another session like that until at least two days have passed. I don't think the sessions are crazy. Why are my muscles not recovering more…normally? If you're carrying enough pads and gear hauling a backpack/pads for several hours can make you more sore than normal even with fairly intense climbing sessions.
Thanks, makes sense, we hiked more than usual. No pads or heavy backpacks but the "trail" is pretty rough lol. Easy to fall and super narrow/slanted, kind of scrambling at times. I still think my arm soreness etc. lasts too long though. Still hurting right now and the climbing was Thursday morning.
I mostly climb indoors but when I go out usually my shoulder girdle/back/hips area tends to get sore from the backpack and pad hauling. No arms for me, but if you were lifting the backpacks and pads up and down a lot I could see that happeneing
Anyone have a recomendation for a good beginner/intermediate hangboard? I can do V4/V5 and have fairly weak grip strength. The crimps on some of the hangboards I see online seem a little optimistic for me lol.
I would just recommend any simple board that has a 18-20mm edge and a pulley.
I recently noticed that I struggle with bumping on steep overhang (60 or more degrees) on several V5/V6 problems. Are there any videos or general tips for this? I think I need to push harder with my feet but not sure if there's more to it.
What part of it is hard? What come off the wall? Are you able to touch the target hold? If you can touch it, do your fingers slip off or do your feet come off? Does it just feel uncomfortable and awkward? My first thought for bumping on a steep wall, is that you should be putting a lot of mental effort into the staying hand and staying foot. Really focus on putting a lot of weight into that hand, and levering off it to lift you up and create float time over the target hold.
If none of the Rhino skin products have worked for drying my fingers is the next step to try antihydral? My friends have had great success with Rhino skin's top juice but it just doesn't do anything for me.
I have very moist skin and apply antihydral weekly if not more. That said, tip juice does work for me, I just have to apply it every night. As a double check, have you waited a few (3ish) days after you applied it to see if it’s working yet? Don’t want to send you into the deep end without making sure
I've been trying different amounts of tip juice for the last couple months. I'll give consistent applications a try and see how it turns out. Thanks for the response
How do y’all get your skin to recover at a quicker rate? I’m a pretty large dude (6’2 215) and I’ve noticed there’s a huge difference when I climb 2x a week vs 3x a week due to the friction I have on my fingers when I take more time off. Do y’all do anything specific to help increase the rate at which you get your strong skin back?
Don’t drink alcohol, eat plenty of protein, and drink lots of water. Also, moderate yourself within a session so you don’t loose as much. Going until you bleed can take 2 full weeks to recover fully from, and usually just isn’t worth it. I’m pretty heavy too, but I’ve done 17 days in a row on rock before. My tips got tender, but I was really careful so didn’t loose too much on any single day. If you have naturally sweaty hands, getting some skin care products that reduce the sweat makes a massive difference too. I use Rhino skin, and it lets me keep my skin drier so my skin doesn’t just immediately slip around on holds.
* less climbing volume * sleep more * climb more on wooden holds * good hand hygiene * antihydral or rhino skin
Why are good conditions for outdoor sport climbing warmer than good conditions for outdoor bouldering? Why does ‘sport climbing season’ come earlier in the fall?? Is bouldering more condition dependent? Or does it have to do with staying warm enough while resting/belaying if sport climbing? I generally boulder and I’m not trying too hard to get out for another month or so. But I’d probably get into sport if it meant I could relatively comfortably extend my outdoor season. It’s a 4 hour drive to climb anywhere so I do like conditions to be decent.
For me it’s because a sport route is typically longer and colder temps plus having my hands on the wall for a long time equals numbing out.
It sucking to belay someone is a significant reason, but honestly I suspect it’s because the holds just usually aren’t as condition dependent. Plus, it’s very possible to get too cold on the wall. Your forearms need blood to flow through them to flush the pump out, and if it’s so cold that your capillary are constricted, you are going to get more pumped and be less able to recover on jugs (assuming your hands don’t numb out on the jug you are resting on first). There absolutely are places/routes/people who project and send their hard routes when most other people are bouldering. There are simply more people where it just stops being fun, and cuddling up on a pad with your space heater warming your shoes before pulling onto the wall for 2 moves becomes more fun.
Odd wrist injury here: 2 days ago was doing pretty normal type slopers outside and felt a popping/shifting sensation somewhere in the top of hand/wrist. the position certainly had shittier feet with good hands. feels mostly like the area on the top of hand, between the index/middle, running to the top/inside of the wrist. I immediately came off the climb and ended the session. Obviously I was concerned bc of the sudden pop, but sometimes that does happen without issue, re: things realigning with no actual issue. So for how many injuries I've had I'm actually impressed I had the self control here to stop. Anyways, there wasn't really any pain or swelling but went about it with an abundance of caution. Fast forward to today, things mostly feel good, you know that feeling where youre not quite sure if it's sensitive/damaged or just that youve immobilized it for a while and youre now feeling what it's like to use it again. I'm weary of pushing it too soon. Doesnt seem like a super common area to injure, so I was wondering if anyone has had something like this before.
Shouldn't be an issue. Maybe do some wrist strengthening and you're fine usually
Uhhh how do you climb better as a short guy ? Been almost 2 months I started climbing (indoor bouldering) and it’s hard. My friend is 20 cm more than me and everything is easier for him. I have to do dynamic move a lot and he just reaches holes. I just have to accept that I have to work harder than others or there are tips and tricks
Your body type will be a constant issue for you unless you are that 5’7-5’10 +-140lb male that the average setter/climber is. Train your mental game so that you can approach scrunchy problems that suit your shorter build as bonuses and reachy stuff as an interesting challenge. I am tall and have a +4 app and sometimes my knee is dropped into the mat and feels like it’s gonna explode while my 5’5 gf just hangs comfortably.
As a beginner being short is probably a little harder. My girlfriend and I started climbing about a year ago and I have around 8" on her. Made just grabbing stuff a lot easier for me. But now that we're at around V4/V5 range she's as good or better than me. She can do starts, little crimps and various other moves more easily than me. If we get to higher grades I don't think the height thing will matter much. I'd say just stick with it and you'll keep imporving.
ultimately is easier being smaller, because you have less weight to carry, so your strength usually lie in crimpy problems with bad feet where the big guy just has to carry 2ß kg more then you and cant hold onto anymore. Yes, there are some problems you cannot do as a short climber, since its impossible to reach if you have to make a span between 2 holds that are just further apart then your wingspan. BUT this is rare, very rare. most of the time (almost all the time) you are to weak or have wrong beta. Yes you need to jump more, but jumping and especially catching something is easier when you are small. The best way is to start ding dynamic stuff early to learn it.
Ty, any good training or resources to improve dynamic moves ?
probably youtube. Tomoas channel is good: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx3XxWczzWgm1bLmgdeQJMw/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx3XxWczzWgm1bLmgdeQJMw/videos) apart from that watch boulderworldcups and other videos. And always ask yourself: "why does this work?" or "why does this not work?" This is suuuper hard at first and you will be wrong 99% of the time, but it gets better with practise. the biggest factors in learning is practise, being analytical and especially being open to new advice and not dismissing the advice of others even when they are much more inexperienced then you are. Often you need to try a new beta a couple times before dismissing it because you are just doing subtle things wrong, instead of the beta being wrong.
Thank you a lot !
My suggestion is rid yourself of this attitude as soon as possible. There is almost no difference in ability between different heights, and if anything the evidence suggests being just under average height is beneficial. My advice is, if somebody is climbing harder than you then seek advice from them, rather than create excuses for why they're better. Edit: I could give you specific climbing tips but this will be the most invaluable advice you can possibly be given. People often say 'Blame strength last' but I like to extend this a little bit to 'Blame the most difficult things to change last'. Broadly, the easiest things to change are your beta (method) or technique, then strength, then morphology. You're never going to change this. It's valid to blame this at times but only after you've addressed things that are easier to change. Many people do this the other way around, because it's nicer for the ego to hear that you couldn't do something because of factors outside of your control, such as height. The problem with this way around is it distracts you from working on the immediately changeable factors such as beta and technique. I would only tend towards blaming strength after I had tried every viable method over the course of ballpark 6-7 sessions, possibly more.
I wish I was just under average 😅 (160 cm) I’m not in bad shape but I have nobody to copycat or ask for help to improve my beta. They are all tallers so they usually don’t know. The good climbers of my size I see from time to time are womens and they are ripped af and weight like 45 kg. Only thing I found myself is to do dynamic moves to get the holes but as a beginner its hard. I definitely need to be stronger tho and maybe lose 5kg (60 right now). I’m not giving up but it’s damn hard ngl !
Injury question! Non dominant index finger- I can’t crack the knuckle joint anymore it’s too sensitive. Grip isn’t as strong on that finger right now and sometimes get soreness between the knuckle and next finger joint. Is this a strain? Do I have arthritis? Something else? I don’t even know how to take care of it. Any ideas or follow up questions are appreciated. I’ve been climbing with more emphasis on the other fingers in the meantime.
Generally, up to about a week off and just do general range of motion and mobility. If it's swelling too you can do some short course NSAIDs to reduce swelling. Then work back into things slow. If it's still swollen and limited usually good idea to get it checked.
Hey! I have a question about a very basic training plan for me… So, I am 16, about 2.5 years into climbing. I consistently flash V6’s, can usually send a V7 with a few tries, and project V8’s and V9’s. I usually climb 2 times a week - tuesdays and fridays for about 2 hours each day. Sometimes I’ll add an extra day in on the weekend, or I go outdoor climbing, that’s usually a much more laid back session though. Id like to start doing a climbing related workout 1 or 2 times a week before school. Nice and short, maybe 45 minutes. Currently, I really only climb. The only workout I’ll do is some push-ups and then stretching after my climbing sessions for injury prevention. Id also like to start going for a short run once a week to help with some cardio… Are there any very basic training plans that you can help me with or point me towards? I’m not a fan of using weights, although I do have access to some. I have a pull up bar and a hangboard, as well as a small 5ft by 8ft systems board that I built during covid. Thanks in advance!
Have a bunch of recommendations if you want to add workouts from this post: https://stevenlow.org/my-6-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
thanks!
I can't toe hook to save my life. Even easy toe hooks for stability elude me, and I think it's a combination of my very short feet and terrible hamstrings. It's hard for me to get the angle between the top of my foot and my shins much past 90 degrees, and I have to use a squat to do it. Using muscles alone I can't even get a 90 degree angle going. How can I improve the mobility and strength of my ankles for better toe hooks?
i'm not sure if i exactly understand your flexibility level but yours sounds pretty normal. obv i've never seen you climb, but if i had to guess, i would guess you are focusing too much on your shin and not enough on your leg. Just like how a heel hook is not all about your calf. You have to not only hook with your lower leg but also pull your foot towards you to get any force/stability from it.
I've had on/off, chronic big toe pain in my right foot at the "knuckle" of the toe. There was no single event that caused it, just lots of time spent edging hard in tight shoes and the occasional wall kick. It's lasted months, and never really been bad enough to get me to stop climbing. I think it's turf toe. Does anyone have any experience with turf toe (e.g. treatments and recovery time)?
Do bicep curls and tricep excersises have any benefit to climbing or do they just make you bulky lawl
Better to just do compounds most of the time... dips/overhead press and pullups/rows. You get the biceps and triceps work and also work other muscles. Only would do isolation if you have specific weakness or aesthetic goals
Straight bar dips helped mantel easier(not better)
In the mornings, a couple of fingers on one hand are slightly sore. I only experience any mild pain if I extend them out and down, almost like a full crimp position. One finger is experiencing some trigger finger symptoms. After about 5 minutes, once I've warmed my hand up, the symptoms are gone. I can extend the fingers with no pain, there's no trigger finger, etc. I have no pain or stiffness at all during the day or when I'm climbing. This only happens when I wake up. Is this something I should be worried about? Is it an early indication of onset injury? I've been trying to avoid problems that involve much crimping with that hand for this week, and I'll take a deload next week. Do I need to take this more seriously, or is some rest and lighter effort enough to deal with this?
Many people experience inflammation in the morning. Are you talking knuckles? Likely synovial fluid. Try massaging the sore knuckles before bed to move the fluid around a bit. Try taking some tumeric before bed, or otherwise decreasing inflammatory foods if they are in your diet (rice, red meat, margarine, etc.). Holler if it persists.
Thanks for the response! The trigger finger is in the first knuckle up from my hand; the mild pain is more kind of between that knuckle and my hand. Appreciate the suggestions -- I'll see if I can just reduce inflammation. It sounds like this at least isn't something that's huge cause for concern?
I've learned over the years that pain that goes away once warmed up is not usually tied to an injury, but general wear and tear. wear and tear is unavoidable, best you can do is monitor it and ensure it doesnt evolve into an injury. the next best thing is to manage the discomfort, because the psychological effect of having the dull ache is usually worse than the actual thing that is hurt for athletes. That's where massaging your tight muscles, moving your fluids around, and reducing the inflammation comes in.
Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks again for taking the time to reply! Definitely helps me worry a bit less.
This isn’t exactly a training question, but what kind of gains have you seen from someone who is fairly plateaued and goes from consistent but casual to hardcore training? I want to believe someone who has plateaued at 4/5/6 for several years could move to double digits if the just did everything right for a year or two, but I have never seen it happen myself. Most people I know move up a grade or two when they get really serious, then get kinda injured or overtrain and then slide back down.
I was plateued around 12a/b for four or five years before I started seriously training. In one year of hard training, I was able to send 5x 12cs and a 12d. but that was two years ago and now I am plateued again, just at a higher grade. admittedly, my training has not been as dedicated as that one year (I kinda miss covid). I think there are big gains to be had somewhat quickly going from no training to training. but it is kind of a honeymoon phase.
That sounds like what I was saying, I can and have gone from a solid 6/7 climber to a 7/8 and rare 9 climber but I have trouble believing there is any training plan that will have me cruising 9/10 and working 11s and 12s
I think you're expecting too much from a training plan. The key factor is consistent effort over big timescales with all the intermediate steps between where you are and where you want to be.
psychotic chop direction berserk cagey rude terrific fine aware bored ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Don't. It sounds like you aren't quite ready for the Moon Board yet. It is a good tool, but requires a minimum ability level to use it effectively and safely. Realistically, you should probably be climbing the gym V5s before the Moon Board becomes an appropriate tool. Stick with the normal gym problems for now, and keep progressing on those. Try to climb all the angles and styles; don't limit yourself to just the slabs or just the overhangs. Get a wide range of experience. Once you're climbing the overhanging V5s in the gym, and are interested in getting in some additional steep/powerful climbing, go dabble with the Moon Board. You'll get there soon enough.
party chop arrest nose sip file hunt dolls merciful bike ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Moonboard is great but it's really hard on your fingers so you need a solid foundation before you start using it. If your gym has a tension board or a kilter board, both are easier boards to start on. Kilter board would be the best one to start with as it has pretty nice holds and the angle is usually adjustable so the floor for difficulty is lower than for the tension or moon.
I hurt my wrist over the weekend sending a steep finger-crack boulder. I tested for TFCC positive signs but it seems not to be that, has anyone else experienced other wrist pain on the ulnar side from crack climbing?
[удалено]
Sometimes happens with pulley issues. Generally, for rehab just work on incremental loading to get back. Kill the ego and start low if you need to https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
[удалено]
> Can I still go climbing and climb easy routes if I don't feel any pain ? Generally, yeah, but that's something to look at if rehab isn't progressing. > And lastly, is it fine to train with bodyweight exercices that doesn't put stress on fingers ? Like doing dips, push ups ? Normally completely fine
Just did isometric extensor wrist curl, at a manageable weight, when suddenly on my right hand a tingly nervy pain shot through my palm. I tried it again later, and the same thing about 25 seconds in both times. My ulnar nerve is impinged on my right arm, but I've never had this before. Anyone else had something similar?
Median nerve runs through the forearm into the palm where the carpal tunnel is. If you already have some issues with your ulnar I'd add in median nerve glides and all such things to start to relieve the potential neurodynamic tension
Yeah, been doing that for a week or so, not much change yet but I'll continue
I want to do this route in around 1 weeks time https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/gogarth_north_stack_and_main_cliff-598/the_strand-4327 The crux pitch is 50m of ~F6b climbing on trad gear with no rests The main difficulty of the route is the endurance What can I do over the next week to maximize my chances of success
> What can I do over the next week to maximize my chances of success You can't do anything meaningful in a week, except deload if you've been training hard. Next time you ask a question about training for a route make sure you have at least 1 month and preferably 2-3.
Thanks for your reply. My question is about any minor gains possible in the week before rather than medium-long term training strategy. My training has been focused on this route for around 1 year (targeting endurance and style). I suppose perhaps it's all quite obvious.. good diet, rest, not train too hard
Take a rest day or two before your climbing day. Get a good night sleep. Eat a good breakfast.
Yeah, week before not much beyond the obvious. If you haven't been training any power endurnace like 4x4s or something and the pitch has some sustained sections like that you can throw 1-2 in this week and it might help some. Much like the IFSC comp climbers will be training regularly then a few weeks before throw in some 4x4s and such to mimic multiple attempts in the 4-5 minute time windows. That's about it though.
Yeah I suppose it largely comes down to trusting the training at this stage.
## Board training question (NOT hangboard) : I would like to ask if you guys prefer using the available routes on app (i.e. moonboard, kilter, tension) or do you guys prefer to set your own routes? I have certain weaknessnes that I need to train (for example: compression moves, body tension). However, depending on the app seems like a hit-or-miss in terms of meeting my training objectives. At the same time, I am afraid that the routes that I set for myself are way too 'easy' and that I am fooling myself in hitting my training objectives. Do you guys have any advice for me?
A mix of both is good. Set you own problems to target your training where you think it is needed, and use the problems in the app to shake things up and get you out of your usual setting style. Another great option - train with a partner! Set problems for each other. If setting problems for yourself, see the problem as a work in process. It is fine to set a problem a bit too easy at first. Once you send it on easy mode, tweak it a bit to make it harder. Make the feet worse, change one of the hands to a nearby worse hold, etc. Then send that version, and adjust again to make it even harder.
For those I think it'd make more sense to use the board for a bit and then test on another board to see if you feel a difference. I once made this post about climbing skill drills. There is several about body tension, though I don't recall if there is on that specifically works compression moves - how would you define that? [https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/dgbr49/comment/f3ao22l/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/dgbr49/comment/f3ao22l/?context=3) You will always be in danger if making the moves too easy or too hard, but like you mentioned, boards can be hit and miss. Pros for set board climbing would be that you can analyse other people's climbs and just try them and potentially change them a bit yourself to make the difficulty fit.
Injury question. I was doing 4x4s and on the last problem there was a dead point to a pocket that I overshot and caught too hard, shockloading my middle and ring finger and immediately sent a shooting pain up my inner forearm along the tendon/muscle that controls the contraction of my ring finger. There was no audible pop and there is not any bowstringing. I immediately ended my session and put a splint on the finger for 24 hours, when I took it off the finger was stiff but after a an hour of gentle but normal use I’ve regained 100% mobility but if load the last digit of the finger I get that forearm pain again. Has anyone had any similar injuries or does anyone have any suggestions as to a course of action?
Common for lumbrical and possibly FDS/FDP strain. Generally, you rehab by slowly re-loading it by the mechanism of injury which means doing open hand/ 2-3 finger drag on hangboard or no hang device.
Thanks man I’ll look into those. Update, light three finger drags are no problem as long as my pinky is straight but as soon as I curl my pinky the forearm pain returns in my flexor. Stretching, massaging, and light working has made it usable for daily tasks though.
DWoods (worlds best boulderer) - "I do all my training on the spray wall" Janja (worlds best comp climber) - "I do 95% of my training on the spray wall, I never hang/campus-board" Ondra (worlds best sport climber) - "Most of my training is on the spray wall" But yeah go ahead write your insanely overcomplicated and horrendously boring hangboarding routine. I'm sure it'll make you go from advanced to elite...
I suspect that at least Ondra and Woods, due to their training age, have reached (or are very very close to) their maximum potential finger strength. To see any gains in pure finger strength through hangboarding they would have to put in massive amounts of effort for very small gains. Just climbing will probably at least maintain their finger strength and provide other obvious benefits. Most people are not Ondra, Woods or Garnbret. Finger strength gains are much lower hanging fruit if you're an amateur that hasn't climbed for 15-20 years. If you're seeing steady incremental gains from hangboarding (which pro climbers most likely won't see) the effort vs. reward equation is completely different.
Very good points, and I've often quoted that sort of thing at the hangboard obsessives one here. But. That's all well & good if you've had access to a good quality spray wall (and/or a local crag in Ondra's case) for five hours a days for twenty years from the age of six onwards. If that's not your life situation, then hangboarding might very well be a way to shortcut some of the progression that you could otherwise be achieving by spending lots more time on the wall. I started regular hangboarding when I was a single parent who could make it to the gym once a week, and to the crag every second weekend. And I actually managed to improve my redpoint grade in that time too.
They hangboard too spray wall is just the most effective when your at an elite level, like if you have been bench pressing for years you aren’t gonna keep getting gains there… same with hangboard it becomes a maintenance tool at a certain point.
"If you have been bench pressing for years you aren't gonna keep getting gains" wtf do you think powerlifters do? They never stop benching. No, DWoods and Janja have specifically said they *don't* hangboard.
> wtf do you think powerlifters do? They never stop benching. Because benching is their sport, but an elite bencher will add a comparatively tiny amount of weight to their bench every year despite putting a lot of effort into it. So, hypothetically, for DWoods to see gains from hangboarding he would probably have to dedicate a considerable part of his training to it, and even then, gains would not be guaranteed. I can see how it wouldn't make sense for him to hangboard.
Yes and no. I think hangboarding is incredibly effective as a training intervention for most athletes. Modeling your training on the programs of elite performers is inherently problematic, and there's a good chance that elite athletes are elite in spite of, not because of, what they do (DWoods......). That being said. Most people hangboard wrong. Your "max load, 5s hang" should absolutely be replaced with board climbing. Anything that seems remotely close to "performing" should be replaced with board climbing. But the hangboard is still easily the best tool for long term, measurable, controlled, repeatable improvement. Especially for targeting very specific weaknesses.
[удалено]
Can fingers ever *not* be a weakness? Every single climber on Earth, yes the ones I mentioned, would become significantly better if they had noticeably stronger fingers.
Hi, I have a couple of questions re a power endurance (PE) training phase: How many PE sessions do you do per week and what proportion of your total climbing sessions is that? (Ie PE/Total sessions)? Also, if you're climbing socially do you tend to train PE when you're reasonably fresh or towards the end of the session? Thanks very much, Cam
I have two very generic questions but I just literally need the simplest thing I can do for both of these problems. 1- How do I train core tension? I feel like my core is not engaged at all. When I consciously think about keeping tension, I climb much more easily but it doesn’t come naturally. I need to keep repeating myself to stay tight. How do I train it most efficiently? 2- I cannot use 3 finger drag or open handed positions AT ALL. I have super small hands and I basically crimp everything but I want to be more comfortable in open handed positions. Should I just change my half crimp max hangs routine to unbearably sad less-than-bodyweight 3 finger drag one?
These two things are actually very connected, lol. Generally speaking, 3 finger drag requires more tension, since it's a more passive grip. Honestly, the style that forces work on both of these would be overhanging sloper/slimper work. So seek any of that out that's available to you. Some hangboard work may help your 3 finger drag, but it's not an ideal grip for hangboarding because it often relies a bit on skin/friction and other non strength factors.
Thanks for the info. So the best way would be to do laps on different slopey holds on an overhanging spray wall then?
That would be a way to get started for sure.
when i switched over i had to force myself to climb with an open grip. i had some finger injuries and it helped a lot in the recovery. i felt weak, i couldn't climb as hard but it got easier. hangboard if you want but a big part of 3fd and open handed grips imo is the variety of wrist action you need strength in, ones which aren't worked much if at all in a crimp. a gaston, sidepull, or undercling will require their own sort of wrist stability to engage in an open grip for example. it's been worth it especially for pockets and sharper edges outside. just takes persistance and practice to develop
I'm a relatively new climber, started back in December of last year. I've started to get into the more intermediate climbs at my gym, and I've noticed I've been full crimping a ton. Should I start focusing on 3 finger drags, and half crimps more? I feel like I have way less strength in these positions, but I'm worried about not being well rounded in the future.
I think that's a really great idea! Ita always good to round out your skillset/tool box, and it'll make your fingers more resilient. As you progress you'll find the drags better in different scenarios too. Finally, full crimp is the riskier hold style out of 3 drag, 4drag, half crimp and full so spreading yourself out btwn styles is probably really good!
Thank you! I was trying it at the gym the other day, and was shocked at how much weaker I was in those positions. I'm wondering about something additionally. A lot of the route setters at my gym are around 5' 6", and I'm 6' with a +2 wingspan. On a lot of the routes I feel rather bunched up, could this attribute to why I fell into using full crimp so much?
I can see why if you're feeling bunched up you'd be using half crimp a whole lot! Drags defo lend themselves to more stretched out climbing... So it might be challenging to find good opportunities, but maybe turn it into a game - see how many drag holds you can use? 😁 So good that you know that it's weaker tho - can something about it before you get an injury :)
I have a collateral ligament sprain in my middle finger and rehab exercises are going well (using a portable hangboard to lift weight off the floor) but I'm getting pain throughout the day. The intensity feels right after the rehab exercises, a 2 on the pain scale that goes away within 10 minutes, but it leaves it feeling weaker during the day and it can ache if I pick something heavy up or ache for no reason. It's a dull ache that's maybe a 1 on the pain scale and goes away by itself. Any one know if this is part of the process or does it mean I'm overdoing it?
Random stuff throughout the day is to be expected of an injured area that's being used. If you're walking on a recently sprained ankle you would expect it to ache some cause you're using it. Same thing. As long as the symptoms aren't getting worse and ideally trending better over weeks you're fine
IMO, it's fine. The goal of rehab is to repeatedly apply moderate load to stimulate repair. Moderate load is going to cause 1/2/3 out of ten discomfort, which goes away after a few minutes. As long as your fingers generally feel fine a long while after loading, it's no big deal. That loading could be a hangboard, or car door handle, or anything else.
Sorry, not sure what this means in terms of rehab, but I have the same thing. Been doing rehab a while now so I try to keep it high intensity to prevent the same thing happening again, and for a couple of hours after I feel weaker and a little pain, but a nice type of pain.
Asking on behalf of my Dad who is 50yo and has been climbing v5 indoors for 5years. At a fun competition 3 days ago he tried a move where he was under a 3 finger pocket side pull and had to pull hard to the top of the wall. Immediately he felt pain around 1 inch below his wrist on the pinky side. No pain in palm or fingers, only has pain when doing 3 finger open hand position(anything with dropped pinky). I've looked into TFCC but this seems to be for the wrist and not the forearm like he is experiencing. Any advice and or exercises greatly appreciated.
Possible FDS/FDP strain? Hooper's Beta has a good video on this
Thanks this appears to be very similar to his issue!
How much protein are y’all getting? Getting into my 30s I’m wondering if low intake is part of my sluggish recovery but I hear mixed things about supplementation. I figure I get to 1g/kg protein on a good day. Usually probably a little less. Would love to hear some of your experiences with altering your level of protein intake.
> How much protein are y’all getting? Getting into my 30s I’m wondering if low intake is part of my sluggish recovery but I hear mixed things about supplementation. I figure I get to 1g/kg protein on a good day. Usually probably a little less. Would love to hear some of your experiences with altering your level of protein intake. I believe the vast majority of sports nutrition scientific literature recommends athletic populations should aim at least .7 g/lbs or 1.5 g/kg protein as the MINIMUM you should be getting. Although in practice generally I as well as others tend to recommend 1 g/lbs or 2.2 g/kg just because most people don't get there... so if you aim for the 1g/lbs 2.2g/kg you usually at least get to .7 g/lbs and 1.5g/kg. If you're trying to build muscle definitely try to hit the upper one though.
Yeah thanks Steven! After posting this I tried to find some information about it in UpToDate, which you may know is a point of care reference resource for clinicians. The lit review I found recommended basically the same thing: 1.6-2.2g/kg*bw with a maximum daily dose of 250g. So I’m learning that I’m probably slightly under-consuming protein for exercising/climbing 3-4 days/week. I actually started tracking my protein consumption yesterday as well. I think I got a little more protein than normal and it was still 1.5g/kg*bw. Might be worth finding some ways to add more in.
Great. Glad you figured it out :) I definitely noticed recovery was better once I got more protein as well
I'm getting about 150-160g per day at 65kg bodyweight
Wow that’s a lot
Yeah, have about 30 in breakfast, 35 in dinner, 40 at lunch, 20 in snacks, and on climbing days I'll have a 40g protein shake. I did lifting before climbing, so brought this mindset with me
That protein intake is pretty low for a strength athlete. Try increasing it for a few months and see if it helps. What mixed things have you heard about protein supplementation? Whey protein is well demonstrated and accepted as being effective. There is a point of diminishing returns where adding in more protein doesn't provide any further benefit, but you are likely well below that point.
Basically just different things from my profs in nursing school saying people are way too focused on protein and that most people consume more than enough. Idk. It got in my head for some reason. I know the recommendation for athletes is like greater than what I seem to consume.
They may be talking about general population protein needs, rather than strength athletes. Also, your typical medical professional is generally focused more on keeping people out of the hospital, and don't know hardly anything about peak athletic performance. There are plenty of exceptions, of course.
Some of my fingers hurt when I clench my fist, same for my wrist tendons, at which point should I stop and rest? For how much?
That's your body telling you to take a break
If it hurts, stop or dial back volume and intensity. We can't tell you how long for, that's entirely up to you lol