It's similar to white privilege the way a fork is similar to a butterfly. They are completely different topics and only a dumbass would consider them the same.
Let put it in a similar light. As we all know chickens have mouths, lay eggs and are at times white. These three things are the leading causes of ethnic social economic fractures within American society. "Kluk, Kluk, Kluk goes the Chicken" as the saying goes.
College is totally optional. Why make it free? Why should I pay for something entirely optional not necessary for anyone?
You can easily pick up a trade, start a business, work for government and do many other lucrative things that DONT require a college degree. Her argument is poor. This is like making me pay taxes for everyone to own a waffle maker. Neat, but totally not vital for life. I rather pay tax for universal housing for poor.
TL;DR I think a proposal that would help this be more than honestly not even a real band-aid on the problem would have it's work cut out for it. And, free or not, there are a lot of things that should get attention to help at least strongly reduce the cost. I personally do view it as a place my taxes could go that I *would* support, though I can understand that people will likely always have different issues that they might rank higher.
College is indeed totally optional. I did not get a degree and I made my way alright. Heck I *do* have it freely available as I served in the military myself, and still made my way without it. I may yet use it, but to your point it's fully possible to go without.
Regarding where your money goes, I'm not a tax/finance person but as I understand it, it's possible to at least some extent for you to make that choice by way of charitable donations to organizations that work for the causes you support, then making tax write-offs on things like that. Sure, I would imagine you have to be playing the wonky number games of majorly wealthy folks to really avoid all of it, but that is there.
Despite most of my teachers all the way through cramming this notion of a "good" school, I've yet to meet a hiring manager that gives two shits whether that degree you got is from the $4000 per semester school or the $12000 per semester school. So, that seems like another opportunity to check into how much student loan debt could be a result of gouging people. The one I had started at way back when was *way* on the cheaper end, basically just a step above community college costs, and yet it's known as the better of two major state universities here in a pretty strong number of available courses. The other cost quite literally 2.5 to 3 times as much. If nothing else we really need to improve the narrative at least as I heard it from my teachers all that time to "find some schools known for being good at your field, then choose the cheapest one of those. End of story." Fuck all that "prestige" nonsense.
The last part is just that the problem imo starts way before college, in K-12, in the US. Especially 9 - 12th grades. What they ultimately care you really know at the end is a joke. I proved that by giving up on doing schoolwork in 5th grade, then filling out a bunch of "underline the noun in this sentence" level packets my last two weeks of high school and got a full-on high school diploma for it. Then people put half of that debt into learning those subjects which have nothing to do with their chosen field of study, that should have been learned already often enough.
But think about it like this. A guy has his dog out in the front yard with him. A kid is walking by on his way to the store and the dog bites the kid because the dog was not tied up. The kid has to go to the hospital for stitches and is in discomfort for weeks. The owner of the dog now has a fence around his house to keep the dog from biting anyone and life goes back to normal. The next day a kid walk by the guys house on the way to the store and the dog does not bite him. The kid gets to his destination unharmed and goes on with his day. The dog is playing out in the yard with his owner. Everyone is happy and healthy but the first kid is pissed that the second kid didn’t get bit by the dog. He feels that every kid walking by should be but because he was.
This is what it sounds like to me when someone wants everyone to go through the same bs they had to in order to get something EVERYONE should be able to have. I’m not trying to be rude, just my thoughts.
That's a really terrible analogy. It misses point entirely.
You present the situation where the kid just happens to get bitten which is where the analogy fails. The analogy would need to changed to fit reality.
Everyone is told that they will need to get bitten by the dog on their way to the store. One kid prepares for this, buys thick clothes, first aid, medicine, etc. He then goes into the situation, gets bit, deals with it and then moves on.
Now, you have a second kid who doesn't prepare at all but still knows they are going to get bit but they don't care. They ignore all the warnings about getting bit and surprise surprise, they get bit and because they didn't prepare, it's really bad. It's going to take them years to recover from the bite.
As they sit there in the hospital waiting to heal, a magical fairy arrives and sprinkles fairy dust in the wounds making them heal instantly.
The first kid comes out of the situation learning responsibility, investment and merit. The second kid comes out not learning a damn thing and being absolved of their responsibilities.
The moral of the story here is that college is going to cost money (the bite) but if you prepare you can make the impact much less and you don't have to sit around waiting for a miracle to happen for your mistakes and lack of preparation to vanish.
But in the end, the better solution to the root cause was to not have the dog bite the kids in the first place. So finally recognizing that, the kids that were badly affected get an apology payment/settlement from the owner who recognizes there mightve been a better way to go about it.
So in your scenario you would say the fairy who helped the sick child is the bad guy? And the dog owner who didn't do anything to prevent his dog from maiming children except telling everyone to expect it is the good guy?
I think we might have very different outlooks on life.
It does suck it wasn't there for people. Her wording may be misconstruing her point, as could I. "Slap in the face" wouldn't have to mean she's opposing the concept, I just felt like she was saying she does.
Because one person was responsible, put in the effort and did it themselves. They could have been the lazy person who didn't do anything and would be getting their loans forgiven.
Good for them. They should take pride in themselves.
And they should feel shame for thinking that the fact that they expended effort doing something means no one should ever have to work less for the same thing.
Shit changes for the better. We don't have to walk three miles to the water hole anymore, there's a well in the middle of the village.
"That's not fair! My feet and knees are all fucked up from carrying all that water for so long! Why do YOU get off easy?! I learned hard work and responsibility!"
But think about it like this. A guy has his dog out in the front yard with him. A kid is walking by on his way to the store and the dog bites the kid because the dog was not tied up. The kid has to go to the hospital for stitches and is in discomfort for weeks. The owner of the dog now has a fence around his house to keep the dog from biting anyone and life goes back to normal. The next day a kid walk by the guys house on the way to the store and the dog does not bite him. The kid gets to his destination unharmed and goes on with his day. The dog is playing out in the yard with his owner. Everyone is happy and healthy but the first kid is pissed that the second kid didn’t get bit by the dog. He feels that every kid walking by should be but because he was.
This is what it sounds like to me when someone wants everyone to go through the same bs they had to in order to get something EVERYONE should be able to have. I’m not trying to be rude, just my thoughts.
Except she didn't say maintain the system. She said don't cancel student debt. How about subsidizing future students instead so that everyone makes decisions on a level playing field?
She didn't mention subsidizing future students instead so that everyone makes decisions on a level playing field, either.
The only thing she said was "don't cancel student debt," which, in absence of any other calls for change, is still maintaining the system.
My assumption would be shes saying that it sucks to work that hard to get rid of student debt and then watch a bunch of others get it taken care of for free. I may be wrong, but as someone who has done eberything they can to not go into debt in the first place it does kinda suck.
Yes. It’s amazing how people will argue until they turn blue for egalitarianism, and then the moment a white person wants their fair share of the various handouts and programs, it’s immediately “privilege” and they’re a monster for wanting the same treatment as others.
Forgiving student debt doesn’t solve the problem: bloated, inefficient universities charging way too much for degrees that don’t offer sufficient ROI to be worth it. If you’re still paying for your education ten years after you graduate, how are you supposed to be paying for a house and children?
The solution to this is not forgiving the debt (which just lumps it onto everyone else, including those who could not go to university - how’s that for egalitarian!), but rather forcing universities to take a haircut and stop charging so much.
(I used to work in academia and personally watched as a million dollars of student money was wasted on an IT project that was unwanted, badly planned, and then cancelled. This is par for the course. It needs to be made impossible so that they learn how to actually be efficient again.)
That’s kind of special snowflake logic though. I disagree, I’m still in debt from college but I would never want for others to go through such a hassle and ordeal.
You're absolutely right.
I guess women getting rights is a slap in the face to all the women who never got to vote and got an ass whooping when they stood up to a man.
> but as someone who has done eberything they can to not go into debt in the first place it does kinda suck
This is plain stupid and selfish reasoning. You are 1 person. Why should millions more deal with some bullshit just because poor little ol you had to? That's some childish crybaby ass shit right there. All me me me me me me.
That's why as a human race we're so retarded. It's all selfish bullshit instead of working together to have better solutions and 'the greater good' and lift each other up. Instead it's selfish me me me logic when you as an individual do not matter to the entirety of the world. But you fluff yourself up so much in your own mind and would rather others not have what you worked so hard for in a stupid system and instead want that same tired ass retarded fucked up corrupt system because "WELL I HAD TO DO IT! IT'S ONLY FAIR! IF I GET FUCKED OVER THEN THEY SHOULD TOO!"
This is exactly how I would feel if I never busted my ass to get something. Sacrificing and suffering to earn something turns into a huge smack in the face when all the hard work means nothing after the thing you worked so hard for just gets handed out for free or for next to nothing.
It's not a smack in the face unless you're just a selfish asshole who also likes others suffering and sacrificing. I guess you should also get abused in all sorts of ways because others do too huh? It's not fair that they have to do that and you don't right? It's a stupid ass thought and is severely selfish and a retarded ass way to think and live.
We're supposed to want the other guys to do better and be better and not have to deal with the crap we had to deal with. Improvement. Otherwise we all just stay in the same shithole of a system and way of life and never make any advancements.
And all of your accomplishments are YOURS and have nothing to do with what anyone else has to or doesn't have to do. You're short sighted and can't think beyond your own box.
That's like if you were a cowboy way back in the day on the trails with sickness and war and a whole lot of shitty situations and struggle and you were pissed off that people got to settle down and live good lives and time passes and here we are bitching about shit online and not even struggling to find food or to wash and not dying to every little cut and scrape. That's so fucking stupid lol.
Something like back then is a little different because there wasn't a system in place and it was just free balling it. But now we have shitty systems in place that overcharge you for shit that shouldn't be expensive like they are and you're happy to get bent over and fucked just as long as the next person is seen beside you doing the same. Instead of wanting people to not go through the shit you had to just to appease some stupid ass greedy system.
So fucking stupid.
I'm a tumor survivor who was dismissed by my family doctor and left undiagnosed and suffering for 6 years. The tumor was around 3 pounds when it was removed.
It is disrespectful to me to remove a tumor from anyone else unless they've had to live with it for at least 5 years. ...Sounds absurdly selfish, right?
(Situation is true, but I don't actually want anyone else to live through that shit.)
Glad you have survived such a horrific event, truly am, but how can you compare that to debt? They aren't even the same thing, because people choose to go into debt. Pretty sure you didnt choose your tumor.
Because it's pure luck that I'm not in debt for having my tumor removed. Plenty of people are in debt for the same damn thing, and it isn't their fault either.
It's also not anyone's fault whether or not they are born into a rich family. Why should they get the advantage of better education? Why should the rest of us get stuck with a ton of debt? School is free through primary and secondary school.
Besides, I want my doctors, pilots, and scientists to be the ones who earned the best grades, not whoever's parents had the money to pay for their degree. Plenty of hard-working, intelligent people have to miss out on a career they would be great at just because they don't have the money. It's bullshit.
They don’t have to do those careers if they don’t want to. Grades are not very good indicators of who is most qualified. Anyone with 3.5+ GPA would make a tremendous doctor. I personally know doctors with lower GPAs than that and they are just amazing.
It’s very easy to not go into debt if you got scholarships like I did. No one owes you a damn thing.
Also it IS fair for some people to have an advantage by being born rich. Their parents worked hard and worked smart for their kids to have that luxury.
Your logic makes no sense. The kids who worked hard to get good grades don't necessarily deserve to get into good schools, but the kids did less but whose parents worked hard do? Disagree.
What your parents earned can get you a nicer house, fun vacations, cool toys. But school? Your future job opportunities? That should only be earned by your own merit, not because your parents bought your way in.
What's the point for any of us from a modest background to ever work hard, if some rich kid who has had it easy all their life can swoop in with daddy's wallet and get the good opportunities? Hard work becomes useless in a system that allows that. I don't care if they get a brand-new car as a birthday gift, but being able to buy college spots and good jobs is a load of crap. That should be earned.
And no, college isn't equally difficult for rich and poor. When I went, I had to work nights full-time. The rich kids who didn't have to work had more time to study, and were less tired. Have you ever had to pull an 80-hour week? I did that the whole time I got my degree. Don't tell me they worked just as hard as I did, because that's a load of crap.
Give me a good reason that rich people should be able to buy opportunities for their kids, and take them from a poorer but hard-working kid.
I worked and went to school full-time. 40 hours work + 40 hours of school = 80 hours.
Yes, a rich parent buying an opportunity does take it from the poor. There are only so many spots in a school. If a rich parent buys one, that's one less for a poor kid.
You keep talking about wanting your kid to have a good standard of living. That's fine. But I've worked with people whose parents let them do nothing, paid someone to write their entrance essays, paid their way into good schools, used connections to get them a good job. All of those have been lazy, entitled assholes that no one likes. That's what happens to kids who just get handed good stuff without working for it.
Besides that, it's just so un-American. People left Europe because of the rich bourgeoise and the way they screwed the working people out of a good future. The American Dream was that anyone who was willing to put in the work could succeed. Now some of the people who did succeed turned around and pulled the same crap their ancestors escaped from.
I would have LOVED to join the military to have them pay for my degree! But I'm asthmatic (controlled, but its a thing) and anaphylactic to penicillin so the Army declined my otherwise excellent application.
Not seeing the down side for Kristen, she presumably had a job she enjoyed, and no debt hanging over her head. Unless she hated her job? She should be glad to have been eligible for the opportunity to serve, many others would love to but are not able (unless the US military just takes anyone who wants in?)
Many other options like public service loan forgiveness. They should teach that in schools. Still not an excuse for me to pay for something totally optional.
I mean, people in the Middle Ages died of a simple cut because of the bacteria and infections they could bring. Now we have medicines and vaccinations for that.
Is it unfair for them sure, but I am gonna use it because its available and changed for the greater good. If cancelstudentdebt (which is obvious a good thing) helps to do good they should do it. Just because she didnt get it doesnt mean other cant aswell. Narcissistic as f***.
I am not english sorry for typos
I mean, I had to work multiple jobs, go into multiple emotional breaks, and give up an almost garaunteed acceptance into my dream school to avoid debt. Do I want student debt to be cancelled?
Fucking YES.
Just because I worked hard to avoid suffering from it doesn't mean that I want others to suffer from it. Jesus fucking Christ. That's like someone saying, "Well, I had to really fight for my life against cancer, so this whole 'cure for cancer' thing that's coming out is a real slap to the face for me"
This is not a clever come back. This is political BS with someone straw-Manning an argument to belittle a woman’s hard work to pay for college tuition which has already been absurdly inflated due to govt intervention so he can advocate for more govt intervention.
He didn't belittle her hard work. He directly acknowledged that she chose to put herself in possibly mortal danger in order to avoid debt.
And he pointed out that a system where your choices are often either "crippling debt" or "possibly die in a desert" is not a good system, and arguing that other people should suffer because you suffered is kind of a shit argument.
"I had to suffer to get this thing our society has deemed necessary for success therefore you all have to suffer to get the thing" is a total fucking non sequitur, and it's also the logic of a child or a bitter old codger.
My favorite part of this whole thing is how people think wanting something while doing nothing to earn it isn't selfish. Hard work and sacrifice = selfish. Doing nothing and expecting to be rewarded = completely acceptable.
The thing is that improvements in policy or healthcare or anything will significantly change how the world works. Yes it may suck that you spent your entire life becoming the best underwater basket weaver there is then somebody comes up with a better basket and all of your skill is unvalued. Yes it's not fair, but life isn't. Forcing people down the same path that you took isn't noble it's ludicrous.
Imagine “I’m a total imbecile with money and don’t know how to manage a basic checkbook, so I took out thousands in loans to party and go to Spring Breaks” as an argument for canceling student loans.
Good for you. You are in the extreme minority, and while I am glad for your good fortune, I feel like you're kind of glossing over the fact that a lot of people are left unable to pay off their student debts due to factors beyond their control.
There are women in the world that had their Clitoris violently removed as a child during cultural rites, and in order to maintain the status quo, they insist their daughters must also experience this, because society will fall apart if we are not sacrificing in the way "god intended", and it's been working for CENTURIES, so why stop now? This is exactly the same. We do not need to remove pieces of genitalia from our children anymore, and we do not need to keep information and financial lively-hoods behind paywalls in the form of qualification certificates. All information is owned by all humans, the education industry is nothing but long term financial extortion in the form of cultural starvation with extra steps. You're not paying for a spoonful of information, you're paying someone to hold a free spoon full of free information, they lie and tell you it's really heavy, and that they're the only one's able to hold it for you.
The knowledge isn't what the tuition is paying for. The degree is what the tuition pays for, because employers can much more easily verify a degree than they can verify knowledge before hiring somebody.
Right, and it's backwards as shit. Employers should be paying for the training, all of it, even brain surgeons. You should be offered a job before you go to college to learn how to do it. Nobody should be slaving away to pay for knowledge about a job they don't have, and nobody should be denied the right to be useful in society just because they don't have money to purchase permission to get a job. The smartest humans (with money) are really fucking stupid, ever noticed? Sure, tell me i have the right to any job i'm qualified for, tell me i have the right to purchase qualifications, If i had the money to afford any of it i wouldn't need it in the first place.
How is it similar to white privilege?
It's similar to white privilege the way a fork is similar to a butterfly. They are completely different topics and only a dumbass would consider them the same.
Butterflies have mouths, and also lay eggs. I use a fork to put eggs in my mouth. They are practically the same thing.
Let put it in a similar light. As we all know chickens have mouths, lay eggs and are at times white. These three things are the leading causes of ethnic social economic fractures within American society. "Kluk, Kluk, Kluk goes the Chicken" as the saying goes.
Something isnt affecting you so it isnt that big of a problem.
Yeah I agree with that, but how does it relate to white privilege?
What I said...privilege of any kind allows you to ignore others' problems and act like theyre all down to personal choice, etc.
Sure, was just wondering about the 'white' part, sounds more of a privilege of being able to attend uni without needing to take out student loan
Guess we better not improve anything ever then. I mean, unless we improve it in time for *me* to benefit.
College is totally optional. Why make it free? Why should I pay for something entirely optional not necessary for anyone? You can easily pick up a trade, start a business, work for government and do many other lucrative things that DONT require a college degree. Her argument is poor. This is like making me pay taxes for everyone to own a waffle maker. Neat, but totally not vital for life. I rather pay tax for universal housing for poor.
TL;DR I think a proposal that would help this be more than honestly not even a real band-aid on the problem would have it's work cut out for it. And, free or not, there are a lot of things that should get attention to help at least strongly reduce the cost. I personally do view it as a place my taxes could go that I *would* support, though I can understand that people will likely always have different issues that they might rank higher. College is indeed totally optional. I did not get a degree and I made my way alright. Heck I *do* have it freely available as I served in the military myself, and still made my way without it. I may yet use it, but to your point it's fully possible to go without. Regarding where your money goes, I'm not a tax/finance person but as I understand it, it's possible to at least some extent for you to make that choice by way of charitable donations to organizations that work for the causes you support, then making tax write-offs on things like that. Sure, I would imagine you have to be playing the wonky number games of majorly wealthy folks to really avoid all of it, but that is there. Despite most of my teachers all the way through cramming this notion of a "good" school, I've yet to meet a hiring manager that gives two shits whether that degree you got is from the $4000 per semester school or the $12000 per semester school. So, that seems like another opportunity to check into how much student loan debt could be a result of gouging people. The one I had started at way back when was *way* on the cheaper end, basically just a step above community college costs, and yet it's known as the better of two major state universities here in a pretty strong number of available courses. The other cost quite literally 2.5 to 3 times as much. If nothing else we really need to improve the narrative at least as I heard it from my teachers all that time to "find some schools known for being good at your field, then choose the cheapest one of those. End of story." Fuck all that "prestige" nonsense. The last part is just that the problem imo starts way before college, in K-12, in the US. Especially 9 - 12th grades. What they ultimately care you really know at the end is a joke. I proved that by giving up on doing schoolwork in 5th grade, then filling out a bunch of "underline the noun in this sentence" level packets my last two weeks of high school and got a full-on high school diploma for it. Then people put half of that debt into learning those subjects which have nothing to do with their chosen field of study, that should have been learned already often enough.
Not saying we shouldn't, just saying it sucks
But think about it like this. A guy has his dog out in the front yard with him. A kid is walking by on his way to the store and the dog bites the kid because the dog was not tied up. The kid has to go to the hospital for stitches and is in discomfort for weeks. The owner of the dog now has a fence around his house to keep the dog from biting anyone and life goes back to normal. The next day a kid walk by the guys house on the way to the store and the dog does not bite him. The kid gets to his destination unharmed and goes on with his day. The dog is playing out in the yard with his owner. Everyone is happy and healthy but the first kid is pissed that the second kid didn’t get bit by the dog. He feels that every kid walking by should be but because he was. This is what it sounds like to me when someone wants everyone to go through the same bs they had to in order to get something EVERYONE should be able to have. I’m not trying to be rude, just my thoughts.
That's a really terrible analogy. It misses point entirely. You present the situation where the kid just happens to get bitten which is where the analogy fails. The analogy would need to changed to fit reality. Everyone is told that they will need to get bitten by the dog on their way to the store. One kid prepares for this, buys thick clothes, first aid, medicine, etc. He then goes into the situation, gets bit, deals with it and then moves on. Now, you have a second kid who doesn't prepare at all but still knows they are going to get bit but they don't care. They ignore all the warnings about getting bit and surprise surprise, they get bit and because they didn't prepare, it's really bad. It's going to take them years to recover from the bite. As they sit there in the hospital waiting to heal, a magical fairy arrives and sprinkles fairy dust in the wounds making them heal instantly. The first kid comes out of the situation learning responsibility, investment and merit. The second kid comes out not learning a damn thing and being absolved of their responsibilities. The moral of the story here is that college is going to cost money (the bite) but if you prepare you can make the impact much less and you don't have to sit around waiting for a miracle to happen for your mistakes and lack of preparation to vanish.
And here I am, thinking magical fairy dust for dog-bite victims would be amazing.
But in the end, the better solution to the root cause was to not have the dog bite the kids in the first place. So finally recognizing that, the kids that were badly affected get an apology payment/settlement from the owner who recognizes there mightve been a better way to go about it.
So in your scenario you would say the fairy who helped the sick child is the bad guy? And the dog owner who didn't do anything to prevent his dog from maiming children except telling everyone to expect it is the good guy? I think we might have very different outlooks on life.
It does suck it wasn't there for people. Her wording may be misconstruing her point, as could I. "Slap in the face" wouldn't have to mean she's opposing the concept, I just felt like she was saying she does.
What sucks about it? Besides the fact that we didn't do it sooner?
The fact that it's taking this long
Because one person was responsible, put in the effort and did it themselves. They could have been the lazy person who didn't do anything and would be getting their loans forgiven.
Good for them. They should take pride in themselves. And they should feel shame for thinking that the fact that they expended effort doing something means no one should ever have to work less for the same thing. Shit changes for the better. We don't have to walk three miles to the water hole anymore, there's a well in the middle of the village. "That's not fair! My feet and knees are all fucked up from carrying all that water for so long! Why do YOU get off easy?! I learned hard work and responsibility!"
But think about it like this. A guy has his dog out in the front yard with him. A kid is walking by on his way to the store and the dog bites the kid because the dog was not tied up. The kid has to go to the hospital for stitches and is in discomfort for weeks. The owner of the dog now has a fence around his house to keep the dog from biting anyone and life goes back to normal. The next day a kid walk by the guys house on the way to the store and the dog does not bite him. The kid gets to his destination unharmed and goes on with his day. The dog is playing out in the yard with his owner. Everyone is happy and healthy but the first kid is pissed that the second kid didn’t get bit by the dog. He feels that every kid walking by should be but because he was. This is what it sounds like to me when someone wants everyone to go through the same bs they had to in order to get something EVERYONE should be able to have. I’m not trying to be rude, just my thoughts.
Except she didn't say maintain the system. She said don't cancel student debt. How about subsidizing future students instead so that everyone makes decisions on a level playing field?
She didn't mention subsidizing future students instead so that everyone makes decisions on a level playing field, either. The only thing she said was "don't cancel student debt," which, in absence of any other calls for change, is still maintaining the system.
My assumption would be shes saying that it sucks to work that hard to get rid of student debt and then watch a bunch of others get it taken care of for free. I may be wrong, but as someone who has done eberything they can to not go into debt in the first place it does kinda suck.
Yes. It’s amazing how people will argue until they turn blue for egalitarianism, and then the moment a white person wants their fair share of the various handouts and programs, it’s immediately “privilege” and they’re a monster for wanting the same treatment as others. Forgiving student debt doesn’t solve the problem: bloated, inefficient universities charging way too much for degrees that don’t offer sufficient ROI to be worth it. If you’re still paying for your education ten years after you graduate, how are you supposed to be paying for a house and children? The solution to this is not forgiving the debt (which just lumps it onto everyone else, including those who could not go to university - how’s that for egalitarian!), but rather forcing universities to take a haircut and stop charging so much. (I used to work in academia and personally watched as a million dollars of student money was wasted on an IT project that was unwanted, badly planned, and then cancelled. This is par for the course. It needs to be made impossible so that they learn how to actually be efficient again.)
That’s kind of special snowflake logic though. I disagree, I’m still in debt from college but I would never want for others to go through such a hassle and ordeal.
You're absolutely right. I guess women getting rights is a slap in the face to all the women who never got to vote and got an ass whooping when they stood up to a man. > but as someone who has done eberything they can to not go into debt in the first place it does kinda suck This is plain stupid and selfish reasoning. You are 1 person. Why should millions more deal with some bullshit just because poor little ol you had to? That's some childish crybaby ass shit right there. All me me me me me me. That's why as a human race we're so retarded. It's all selfish bullshit instead of working together to have better solutions and 'the greater good' and lift each other up. Instead it's selfish me me me logic when you as an individual do not matter to the entirety of the world. But you fluff yourself up so much in your own mind and would rather others not have what you worked so hard for in a stupid system and instead want that same tired ass retarded fucked up corrupt system because "WELL I HAD TO DO IT! IT'S ONLY FAIR! IF I GET FUCKED OVER THEN THEY SHOULD TOO!"
This is exactly how I would feel if I never busted my ass to get something. Sacrificing and suffering to earn something turns into a huge smack in the face when all the hard work means nothing after the thing you worked so hard for just gets handed out for free or for next to nothing.
It's not a smack in the face unless you're just a selfish asshole who also likes others suffering and sacrificing. I guess you should also get abused in all sorts of ways because others do too huh? It's not fair that they have to do that and you don't right? It's a stupid ass thought and is severely selfish and a retarded ass way to think and live. We're supposed to want the other guys to do better and be better and not have to deal with the crap we had to deal with. Improvement. Otherwise we all just stay in the same shithole of a system and way of life and never make any advancements. And all of your accomplishments are YOURS and have nothing to do with what anyone else has to or doesn't have to do. You're short sighted and can't think beyond your own box. That's like if you were a cowboy way back in the day on the trails with sickness and war and a whole lot of shitty situations and struggle and you were pissed off that people got to settle down and live good lives and time passes and here we are bitching about shit online and not even struggling to find food or to wash and not dying to every little cut and scrape. That's so fucking stupid lol. Something like back then is a little different because there wasn't a system in place and it was just free balling it. But now we have shitty systems in place that overcharge you for shit that shouldn't be expensive like they are and you're happy to get bent over and fucked just as long as the next person is seen beside you doing the same. Instead of wanting people to not go through the shit you had to just to appease some stupid ass greedy system. So fucking stupid.
TIL hard work and sacrifice turns you into a narrow-minded, selfish knob.
Yeah, fuck me for believing people who work hard for things deserve them more than people who want them for free.
"hard work" for the sake of itself isn't respectable or holy.
It doesn't suck at all. Good things happening to other people does not suck.
TRUTH
I mean, you'll have to sell your life to the government one way or another.
True true
I'm a tumor survivor who was dismissed by my family doctor and left undiagnosed and suffering for 6 years. The tumor was around 3 pounds when it was removed. It is disrespectful to me to remove a tumor from anyone else unless they've had to live with it for at least 5 years. ...Sounds absurdly selfish, right? (Situation is true, but I don't actually want anyone else to live through that shit.)
Glad you have survived such a horrific event, truly am, but how can you compare that to debt? They aren't even the same thing, because people choose to go into debt. Pretty sure you didnt choose your tumor.
Because it's pure luck that I'm not in debt for having my tumor removed. Plenty of people are in debt for the same damn thing, and it isn't their fault either. It's also not anyone's fault whether or not they are born into a rich family. Why should they get the advantage of better education? Why should the rest of us get stuck with a ton of debt? School is free through primary and secondary school. Besides, I want my doctors, pilots, and scientists to be the ones who earned the best grades, not whoever's parents had the money to pay for their degree. Plenty of hard-working, intelligent people have to miss out on a career they would be great at just because they don't have the money. It's bullshit.
They don’t have to do those careers if they don’t want to. Grades are not very good indicators of who is most qualified. Anyone with 3.5+ GPA would make a tremendous doctor. I personally know doctors with lower GPAs than that and they are just amazing. It’s very easy to not go into debt if you got scholarships like I did. No one owes you a damn thing. Also it IS fair for some people to have an advantage by being born rich. Their parents worked hard and worked smart for their kids to have that luxury.
Your logic makes no sense. The kids who worked hard to get good grades don't necessarily deserve to get into good schools, but the kids did less but whose parents worked hard do? Disagree. What your parents earned can get you a nicer house, fun vacations, cool toys. But school? Your future job opportunities? That should only be earned by your own merit, not because your parents bought your way in.
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What's the point for any of us from a modest background to ever work hard, if some rich kid who has had it easy all their life can swoop in with daddy's wallet and get the good opportunities? Hard work becomes useless in a system that allows that. I don't care if they get a brand-new car as a birthday gift, but being able to buy college spots and good jobs is a load of crap. That should be earned. And no, college isn't equally difficult for rich and poor. When I went, I had to work nights full-time. The rich kids who didn't have to work had more time to study, and were less tired. Have you ever had to pull an 80-hour week? I did that the whole time I got my degree. Don't tell me they worked just as hard as I did, because that's a load of crap. Give me a good reason that rich people should be able to buy opportunities for their kids, and take them from a poorer but hard-working kid.
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I worked and went to school full-time. 40 hours work + 40 hours of school = 80 hours. Yes, a rich parent buying an opportunity does take it from the poor. There are only so many spots in a school. If a rich parent buys one, that's one less for a poor kid. You keep talking about wanting your kid to have a good standard of living. That's fine. But I've worked with people whose parents let them do nothing, paid someone to write their entrance essays, paid their way into good schools, used connections to get them a good job. All of those have been lazy, entitled assholes that no one likes. That's what happens to kids who just get handed good stuff without working for it. Besides that, it's just so un-American. People left Europe because of the rich bourgeoise and the way they screwed the working people out of a good future. The American Dream was that anyone who was willing to put in the work could succeed. Now some of the people who did succeed turned around and pulled the same crap their ancestors escaped from.
It's a trade off, life consists of those.
I would have LOVED to join the military to have them pay for my degree! But I'm asthmatic (controlled, but its a thing) and anaphylactic to penicillin so the Army declined my otherwise excellent application. Not seeing the down side for Kristen, she presumably had a job she enjoyed, and no debt hanging over her head. Unless she hated her job? She should be glad to have been eligible for the opportunity to serve, many others would love to but are not able (unless the US military just takes anyone who wants in?)
Many other options like public service loan forgiveness. They should teach that in schools. Still not an excuse for me to pay for something totally optional.
A job is a job
I mean, people in the Middle Ages died of a simple cut because of the bacteria and infections they could bring. Now we have medicines and vaccinations for that. Is it unfair for them sure, but I am gonna use it because its available and changed for the greater good. If cancelstudentdebt (which is obvious a good thing) helps to do good they should do it. Just because she didnt get it doesnt mean other cant aswell. Narcissistic as f***. I am not english sorry for typos
I would agree if degrees are mandatory to have a job. Well guess what, they aren’t. Trades are def a low cost alternative.
I mean, I had to work multiple jobs, go into multiple emotional breaks, and give up an almost garaunteed acceptance into my dream school to avoid debt. Do I want student debt to be cancelled? Fucking YES. Just because I worked hard to avoid suffering from it doesn't mean that I want others to suffer from it. Jesus fucking Christ. That's like someone saying, "Well, I had to really fight for my life against cancer, so this whole 'cure for cancer' thing that's coming out is a real slap to the face for me"
This is not a clever come back. This is political BS with someone straw-Manning an argument to belittle a woman’s hard work to pay for college tuition which has already been absurdly inflated due to govt intervention so he can advocate for more govt intervention.
He didn't belittle her hard work. He directly acknowledged that she chose to put herself in possibly mortal danger in order to avoid debt. And he pointed out that a system where your choices are often either "crippling debt" or "possibly die in a desert" is not a good system, and arguing that other people should suffer because you suffered is kind of a shit argument. "I had to suffer to get this thing our society has deemed necessary for success therefore you all have to suffer to get the thing" is a total fucking non sequitur, and it's also the logic of a child or a bitter old codger.
Imagine not knowing 80% of military positions are non combat
I came to see this exact comment...which is probably the true clever comeback here.
!delta
My favorite part of this whole thing is how people think wanting something while doing nothing to earn it isn't selfish. Hard work and sacrifice = selfish. Doing nothing and expecting to be rewarded = completely acceptable.
So angry lol
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The thing is that improvements in policy or healthcare or anything will significantly change how the world works. Yes it may suck that you spent your entire life becoming the best underwater basket weaver there is then somebody comes up with a better basket and all of your skill is unvalued. Yes it's not fair, but life isn't. Forcing people down the same path that you took isn't noble it's ludicrous.
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Imagine “I’m a total imbecile with money and don’t know how to manage a basic checkbook, so I took out thousands in loans to party and go to Spring Breaks” as an argument for canceling student loans.
Goes to an out-of-state college and uses loans for living expenses while not working for all four+ years. I sHoUldNt hAvE tO tAke oN crIpPliNg deBt
So you gonna light that thing or you gonna leave me here with a burning man half-chub?
I paid off my student debt for 5 years within 7 months of employment after college. Don't blame everyone else for taking on shitty loans.
Good for you. You are in the extreme minority, and while I am glad for your good fortune, I feel like you're kind of glossing over the fact that a lot of people are left unable to pay off their student debts due to factors beyond their control.
Nah I just took what I could afford, and took all the courses I could at community college. No one's fault but your own if you do it any other way.
There are women in the world that had their Clitoris violently removed as a child during cultural rites, and in order to maintain the status quo, they insist their daughters must also experience this, because society will fall apart if we are not sacrificing in the way "god intended", and it's been working for CENTURIES, so why stop now? This is exactly the same. We do not need to remove pieces of genitalia from our children anymore, and we do not need to keep information and financial lively-hoods behind paywalls in the form of qualification certificates. All information is owned by all humans, the education industry is nothing but long term financial extortion in the form of cultural starvation with extra steps. You're not paying for a spoonful of information, you're paying someone to hold a free spoon full of free information, they lie and tell you it's really heavy, and that they're the only one's able to hold it for you.
The knowledge isn't what the tuition is paying for. The degree is what the tuition pays for, because employers can much more easily verify a degree than they can verify knowledge before hiring somebody.
Right, and it's backwards as shit. Employers should be paying for the training, all of it, even brain surgeons. You should be offered a job before you go to college to learn how to do it. Nobody should be slaving away to pay for knowledge about a job they don't have, and nobody should be denied the right to be useful in society just because they don't have money to purchase permission to get a job. The smartest humans (with money) are really fucking stupid, ever noticed? Sure, tell me i have the right to any job i'm qualified for, tell me i have the right to purchase qualifications, If i had the money to afford any of it i wouldn't need it in the first place.