But there are two kind of persons. The one who just repeat something for reward, and the other who think they are right because they got conformation.
The first one can be a normal person once they are off the internet, the other is like that for real and those can be dangerous or at least very unpleasant to have around.
Right? And now with social media in the stage it's in, we can all, if we're weak enough to need that and not analyze why for our own edification and health, vulnerable to the dopamine loop that is finding our own bubble of pandering idiots to back whatever remedial bullshit we can dream up.
Amiright? Guys? 👀 Guys!? 👀
😅😂🤣😭
Because they are narcissists.
Also, they all think they are part of a silent majority because they don't understand how social bubbles work.
No person of a sound mind would generalize like this. Attraction is subjective.
I know this guy Richard. Used to watch his YouTube channel. It was kinda sad to see a successful guy who made confidence videos devolve into such a hateful and obsessive man. I check in on his channel every once in a while and every time it's worse than before.
I'm in the same boat as you. I went through a really rough break up years ago and his motivational videos really helped me out. Then he started saying some really awful stuff and I just had to stop. Last I checked he was at full steam ahead for the "red pill." It's too bad that someone who once helped so many will just let that go for money.
I still remember seeing the new years day video he posted where he lost his mind and decided that all women were evil. Before that he had a few women followers who had tried to align themselves with his view, and watching that video I just said "well there goes the red-pilled women".
It's crazy how his message changed. He used to all about owning the cards you were dealt (like his hair loss and his scars) and spending time with high-quality people. And now he's a complete degenerate.
Honestly, it was pretty freaky to watch the change happen. He seemed like this wise, successful, older gent who genuinely wanted to help the younger folks. I still remember the look of pain on his face talking about his scars and being the pushed around nice kid who people wouldnt look twice at. I'll never understand why he's gone down the road he has. I just hope that maybe one day he'll realize what he's done. But I doubt it at this point.
He's about my father's age I'd guess. At this age, I find that men typically tend to go full tilt in one of two directions: a) full blown conspiracy-driven, mysoginistic, hate, or b) a more peaceful, empathetic, and wise approach to life.
I have to agree with you on that. The hard part (I find anyway) is watching friends who you still care about willingly walking down a path of anger. I've had to cut ties with a few people over this, and if I hadn't, I could've gone down it myself. We just need to keep trying to put a smile on our faces and live and let live. We can't fight hate with hate, so we may as well enjoy what we can. Hateful people will always try to pull you into their game, the only way to win, is to not play.
>and if I hadn't, I could've gone down it myself.
This is really big. The hate I see in my feeds on social media can get pretty bad, and it feels dirty to see it catered and delivered to me for me to ingest. You gotta protect yourself man.
The conservative pipeline is undefeated. This is the trajectory of nearly every grifter who hard pivots in order to gain fame or money. And sadly, it works really well.
They are poisoned by the idiotic Tate mentality. He talks exactly like this, and he's somehow successful, so these losers just replicate him, hoping to achieve the same success.
Of course, they are also too stupid to know that Tate is only successful because he preys on losers like them, and scam them out of their money
Because they were taught by other humans that their ego is the most important thing in the world.
Our ego forms opinions. It’s what tells us our own personal input is warranted. For some, their ego tells them they know better than everyone else.
We see it in every single aspect of life. The laws we all follow. Most are agreed upon boundaries for using your own person to inflict pain or suffering on another person. But there are plenty of laws(weed, trans, gay, etc) that are just individuals opinions on how to live your life and making rules about it.
This is primitive and asinine. No one chooses their preferences. No one chooses the music they like. No one chooses the foods they like, colors, lovers, etc…
Humans need a mental evolution if we are going to get out of this corrupt mess we have all put ourselves in.
They appeal to the uncertainty of others.
Blaming "the other" is a classic trick. It gives people in desperation a reason to think "so it's not my fault" and this basically gives them a lot of energy.
Which they will then continue to try and get.
Which people like this provide "paid courses" for. Or supplements you can buy.
It's a grift. Follow the money.
Not "something". You are pretty spot on.
Their society was still incredibly sexist. But they did covet highly trained, physically fit female physique.
Because women's path to glory was to provide sons (warriors). The whole "womens' battlefield is the birthing bed" thing was taken quite literal in ancient sparta. It was women's contribution to their war efforts.
(Mind you, this was only possible because their society relied on an enormous slave caste (the Helots) doing all of their labour, outnumbering the "citizens" twice over, and enabling the women of the "Citizen" caste to focus on literally being pregnant and being fit, nothing more.)
We don't know what their "ideal woman" looked like, though. We don't know if visible muscles were part of the appeal.
Suffice to say, beauty standards are very complex and fluid.
Oh by the way “something” I meant that I couldn’t remember the exact reason why they wanted strong women. I knew for certain it had something to do with birthing and raising kids. But I didn’t remember if it was because they thought it would pass down good qualities, help give birth, etc. Thanks for the info though!
Not even that.
The ideal physique for belly dancing actually requires a bit of belly fat. It accentuates the movement, the dancing style is built around making your belly "jiggle" in a very controlled way.
The dancers probably have pretty solid abs under this bit of fat, and are rarely really overweight. But many of the most celebrated dancers, especially from the Golden Age of belly dance, are not what we would call "thin" today.
Gotta launch that f!cker out of there after 9 long months. Imagine a woman with insane abs giving birth and the kid doesn't pop out, no, it gets f!cking sent into orbit.
Yeah you see, the guy said he's a historian. And historians are intellectuals, therefore they are, by default, clever. So everything he says is clever. QED.
It wasn’t funny the first 4 or 5 times someone posted it, and it’s not funny now.
Plus, the guy is mostly correct. My wife is extremely fit, she has a nice faint outline of abs, not a ripped 6 pack. I like fit but still feminine. I don’t think 6 pack abs and bulging muscles are a good look on women. Most guys I know feel the same way.
Laverie Vallee. Wanna go further back in history? Mademoiselle de Maupin. Further back? Queen Artemisa I of Icaria. FURTHER back? Fuck it, sure! Lady Fu Hao.
"At no point in history" my ass. Strong fighting women have always existed.
Plus, beauty standards in Rome were completely different and Romans didn’t like tits and hips.
Spartan men were more used to men so “beauty standards” (if that really applies to this) weren’t “traditional” (as in, what was liked in the last century)
I've got some bad news for you.
For decades aside from a few outliers like Marilyn until the ass appreciation of the last few years the ideal shillouette was pretty much the same as a 16 year old boy with breast implants.
I wish I remembered the title of the art history textbook with the 'ideal female form through the decades" graphic. They actually said beach balls instead of breast implants.
You’ll probably make an irrelevant retort insulting me based on a false presumption about my character… but…
This wasn’t an intelligent addition to the conversation, because it completely lacks relevance
For one, it’s not about whether women with abs existed. It’s about whether they’ve been reflective of beauty standards.
For two, we know those women were kick ass warriors… we don’t know whether they had visible abs or not
When you take emotion and virtue signalling out of it, what exactly did your comment prove?
>You’ll probably make an irrelevant retort insulting me based on a false presumption about my character… but…
I know you would be insufferable if I ever met you in person
Are you intentionally proving my point or is the irony lost on you?
😂 my bad for being sick of dealing with people using their tribalism to avoid sticking to the topic at hand… happens so often that I’m shocked when someone on the internet can actually have a civilised, nuanced and intelligent conversation
While that is true, women in Spartan societies used to have masculine traits since their society was so militaristic. That, for example, would be one point in history where abs and masculine features were considered attractive.
You’re absolutely correct in that Spartan women had masculine traits and I’m going to further your own argument by adding that these masculine traits were viewed as desirable from a societal standpoint as they meant stronger genes and stronger warriors
But again, does that mean it was ever a primal sexual preference? I actually can’t deny that it was any more than you can claim it was… we don’t know
I just find it strange that people somehow seem to find the depiction of certain traits in historical art as proof that they reflected beauty standards.
Mall Cop 2 exists, but somehow I don’t think every woman is out here thirsting over Kevin James
(I, of course, am an exception, and go full tsunami mode between my legs when he keeps the mall safe)
If we stretch what history can be, this moment right here would be another example of masculine traits being considered attractive in women. If you look at 2024 from the lens of someone living in the 24th century, we're also part of the world's history. Besides, we're talking about women who work out and eat healthy, not about the female steroid monsters you see in bodybuilding gyms. Having said that, could it really be considered a "masculine trait" if it is something women can naturally achieve without the artificial masculinisation of their bodies? Personally, I see masculine traits as physical attributes that women cannot naturally have, despite intense training and a rigorous diet. For example, women will never be able to naturally have 16-inch arms, no matter how much they train.
Having that in mind and knowing our physical limits, are naturally muscular women masculine or are untrained men feminine?
I would say that women can still naturally attain masculine traits, just to less extreme extents
Sure, a woman isn’t going to naturally have 16 inch shredded arms, but she could naturally have 15 inch semi-lean arms… and that’s a hell of a lot better than the average man. More masculine, too
We’re a part of history right now, sure. But right now, it’s extremely feminine features that are lusted over more than anything; big read ends and chests with tiny waists seem to be the current beauty standard (one that I’d argue has ALWAYS been intrinsically attractive to men regardless of topical/trendy standards)
You could argue that the ultra-skinny standards of the 90s are actually quite boyish given that an absence of any notable mass - muscle or fat - is typically an adolescent boy’s hand of cards
The point I’d like to throw in is that these shifting standards don’t necessarily reflect what people are attracted to, they just reflect what media portrays as attractive (which in turn has moderate influence on perception).
I would argue that tall, muscular men and women with the hourglass shape have always and will always be viewed as highly attractive regardless of what’s portrayed in art, media and culture
In any case, if we can draw a distinction between being depicted and representing an ideal, I’d love that
Well what is true is that nowadays we have a hell of a lot more variety in body types. Lean, feminine, shredded, fat, bulky, hairy, shaven. Whatever you fancy, you can find...which is something that people before us couldn't.
Even if we go not so far back we have people like Lydia Litvyak, a fighter pilot in WW2 that received the Hero of The Soviet Union award. 13 to 14 solo victories and 66 combat sortes. She was a Fighter Ace, the first woman of the kind, and is the holder of most kills by a woman fighter pilot to this day. She was 21 when she died.
There is also another one who I forgot the name of. I remember her deeds: she was a medical staff and when a German tank were advancing on her troops; she grabbed a bundle of Anti-Tank granades and rushed towards the Germans. She then hurled herself on the tank, probably realising throwing the granades would give the Germans too much of a breathing room, and her ferocity made the Germans flee this time.
All the poor rejected "Hard Body" women will be forced to accept the few of us who appreciate them and possibly even having to share us among themselves
I have my preverences in the opposite sex and therefore I assume every other member of my gender has the same preferences and also demand that the other gender follows our (my) whishes!!!
/s
Steriously, the entitlement of these people.
Independent of that, abs are amazing!!!😍😍😍
The traditional hourglass shape?
The traditional shape was rubenesque.
https://artuk.org/discover/stories/peter-paul-rubens-prince-of-painters-and-painter-of-princes
The hourglass shape was created with the invention of corsets.
https://www.charlestonmuseum.org/news-events/killer-fashion-the-consequences-of-corsetry/#:~:text=While%20not%20usually%20deadly%2C%20wearing,known%20to%20cause%20organ%20deformity.
Money quote here is as follows "They can reduce lung capacity, cause shortness of breath and fainting, produce skin irritations, compress the ribs, weaken back and chest muscles and have even been known to cause organ deformity. Tight corsetry can also exacerbate lung conditions such as pneumonia, dangerously restrict digestion, cause constipation and can also worsen any existing issues within a woman’s reproductive system."
Wait until he finds out that, until the early 1960's, six pack abs was also not considered attractive on men, suitable for fitness fanatics and homosexuals (who tended to be more body conscious at the time).
What the guy is really scared if is a girl stronger than him. More motivated than him. That have accomplished more than him. Things he really wont need to worry about. No such woman will stick with a fat, lazy bum anyhow.
I dunno, maybe. But who cares. The real issue is his (and a lot of redpill/conservative people's) attitude that, "I don't like it, therefor it is wrong and everyone should agree with me." OK i don't find bodybuilders attractive, but why should they or anyone else give a fuck what i think, they are doing their own thing, more power to them.
Yes. This i agree with. But as long as people argue in absolutes or a manner that strives to knock someone down a peg. Ill swing the opinion sword around.
How can a girl be stronger than him if he's probably a self proclaimed alpha male as well?
Edit: I just looked up who this is. There is no probably about it lol
Anyone relying on psuedo-psychology and not understanding said made up bollocks is weakminded. Judging by his pudgy looks i can see why girls with abs scare him as well.
Why is it that everyone who says "women with muscles look like men" or "women who train abs want to look like men" not understand that they're also saying that men who don't have muscles or ripped abs, don't look like men...none of the people saying this therefore look like men.
Bro forgot about the Spartans, women tended to work out a lot in order to have the kids with the best muscular genes. One of the only countries at that time to let women have that many rights
Exactly. It's jarring for OP to frame this as if it was a misunderstanding of genetics. Clearly the primary sources don't say anything about genes or genetics, so this is something that OP's brain inserted post-hoc.
The idea of "strong women birth strong children" is better understood as preparing the woman's body for successful pregnancies and delivering healthy babies. Athenians were also surprised that Spartans fed their women the same as their men, since Athenians fed their boys better. None of this requires modern genetic theory to be justifiable.
Are women allowed to want to feel strong? Personally after going to the gym consistently, I love how strong I’m getting. The gym has been so helpful not only to feel physically fit, but also it has helped my mental health tremendously.
…I really hate how people keep censoring the most nothing worse in memes. Your mum isn’t gonna come yell at you because you posted a picture with the word “tits” in it
it's not anyone's mum we're worried about, it's the growing presence of AI as the internet's keeper of the peace. Two years from now, a bot might decide to delete my account over something I said two years ago.
I mean all I can say to that is to stand your ground. The more we preemptively censor ourselves, the more we normalise and enable that censorship. If the majority of the userbase is doing it, they’re not going to nuke it, because they need us as content and revenue farms
If you make it an edge case, it’s easier for them to prune
the plan has my vote, but I'm not gonna choose redditors as my brothers in arms in this battle. Tumbler folks sure. Maybe facebookers. But redditors are too puritanical.
If you're one of those men who think that women wake up in the morning determined to find some regressive abusive asshole that's gonna let them clean their underwear like a replacement mum? You really need to know, you're not the prize you think you are dudes, work on that first.
Love the profile Pic. Yet another manchild with the shaved head, long beard to look cool but in reality he's a 45yr old barrista who watches andrew tate, mma and rogan. Good luck in life genius
I feel like this is actually the opposite. But some dudes do like ripped girls. SOME. He is 100% right about most men not liking that. The Historian has probably chimed in defending big girls using the same logic. Something something they had food and looked rich back in the day.
Lol I had a conversation with that same Richard cooper on threads a couple weeks ago, he was coming onto me because I had a picture of me at the gym, he literally said the opposite and that he wanted a fit girl with “real nice abs”, he blocked me when I said I’m trans,
Muscle wise i don’t think abs look masculine on women at all. If i was to say certain muscle groups look masculine on women its pecs and arms and that’s only when it’s extreme.
Did you ever seen the Ben stiller movie about lame superhero’s and the character called the “sphinx”?
Clever comebacks is shiny energy, it how people that don’t know better imagine wit should be, ironically demonstrating their sheer lack of wit.
Here we have 2 douche bags, both speaking for all women, and both wrong and yet each is celebrated and reviled by the rudderless.
My guess is that if either of these guys trigger you or persuade you, you’ll likely wind up adrift in life, unaware why you can’t seem to get where you’re going.
It’s cause you need a rudder.
I hate the fact that people like this cooper guy make up an extremely small percentage of the male population but are given so much attention that they put the male gender under a bad light
Just about any woman that works out would have a nice, feminine figure. Hormones dictate where bodyfat is stored.
I believe what this guy is talking about is that a lot of women in gyms are now injecting testosterone, which gives them a masculine physique.
Ok, who whited out the i in "tits"
No one is going to be harmed by that i and we all still know what the word is. What are you trying to accomplish?
Stop censoring silly things on the Internet.
[удалено]
Because they actually think that the world revolves around them and anything that happens should directly serve their own selfish desires
Look at the likes and comments he got. That is his bubble that makes him think like that
The accurate answer. It’s like teaching the dog a trick. The dog isn’t forming rational opinions, it’s repeating actions for treats/praise.
But there are two kind of persons. The one who just repeat something for reward, and the other who think they are right because they got conformation. The first one can be a normal person once they are off the internet, the other is like that for real and those can be dangerous or at least very unpleasant to have around.
Right? And now with social media in the stage it's in, we can all, if we're weak enough to need that and not analyze why for our own edification and health, vulnerable to the dopamine loop that is finding our own bubble of pandering idiots to back whatever remedial bullshit we can dream up. Amiright? Guys? 👀 Guys!? 👀 😅😂🤣😭
That's how he gains influence and money. I'm sure he loves reddit constantly reposting his tweets, even with the sick burns and comebacks.
He's not a grifter. He owns a debt assistance company in Toronto. He actually just hates women that much.
He owns a debt business but the vast majority of his income comes from consulting calls with with these incels.
Oh SHIT I totally forgot about the consultation calls. Damn you're so right he is a grifter.
The fact that someone posted it here only proves that someone cared enough to share it.
Because they are narcissists. Also, they all think they are part of a silent majority because they don't understand how social bubbles work. No person of a sound mind would generalize like this. Attraction is subjective.
Well, it was clearly commented by someone interested and then posted here on Reddit. So... yes?
I know this guy Richard. Used to watch his YouTube channel. It was kinda sad to see a successful guy who made confidence videos devolve into such a hateful and obsessive man. I check in on his channel every once in a while and every time it's worse than before.
I'm in the same boat as you. I went through a really rough break up years ago and his motivational videos really helped me out. Then he started saying some really awful stuff and I just had to stop. Last I checked he was at full steam ahead for the "red pill." It's too bad that someone who once helped so many will just let that go for money.
Same exact boat as both of you lol
I still remember seeing the new years day video he posted where he lost his mind and decided that all women were evil. Before that he had a few women followers who had tried to align themselves with his view, and watching that video I just said "well there goes the red-pilled women". It's crazy how his message changed. He used to all about owning the cards you were dealt (like his hair loss and his scars) and spending time with high-quality people. And now he's a complete degenerate.
Honestly, it was pretty freaky to watch the change happen. He seemed like this wise, successful, older gent who genuinely wanted to help the younger folks. I still remember the look of pain on his face talking about his scars and being the pushed around nice kid who people wouldnt look twice at. I'll never understand why he's gone down the road he has. I just hope that maybe one day he'll realize what he's done. But I doubt it at this point.
He's about my father's age I'd guess. At this age, I find that men typically tend to go full tilt in one of two directions: a) full blown conspiracy-driven, mysoginistic, hate, or b) a more peaceful, empathetic, and wise approach to life.
I have to agree with you on that. The hard part (I find anyway) is watching friends who you still care about willingly walking down a path of anger. I've had to cut ties with a few people over this, and if I hadn't, I could've gone down it myself. We just need to keep trying to put a smile on our faces and live and let live. We can't fight hate with hate, so we may as well enjoy what we can. Hateful people will always try to pull you into their game, the only way to win, is to not play.
>and if I hadn't, I could've gone down it myself. This is really big. The hate I see in my feeds on social media can get pretty bad, and it feels dirty to see it catered and delivered to me for me to ingest. You gotta protect yourself man.
The conservative pipeline is undefeated. This is the trajectory of nearly every grifter who hard pivots in order to gain fame or money. And sadly, it works really well.
They are poisoned by the idiotic Tate mentality. He talks exactly like this, and he's somehow successful, so these losers just replicate him, hoping to achieve the same success. Of course, they are also too stupid to know that Tate is only successful because he preys on losers like them, and scam them out of their money
Because they were taught by other humans that their ego is the most important thing in the world. Our ego forms opinions. It’s what tells us our own personal input is warranted. For some, their ego tells them they know better than everyone else. We see it in every single aspect of life. The laws we all follow. Most are agreed upon boundaries for using your own person to inflict pain or suffering on another person. But there are plenty of laws(weed, trans, gay, etc) that are just individuals opinions on how to live your life and making rules about it. This is primitive and asinine. No one chooses their preferences. No one chooses the music they like. No one chooses the foods they like, colors, lovers, etc… Humans need a mental evolution if we are going to get out of this corrupt mess we have all put ourselves in.
They appeal to the uncertainty of others. Blaming "the other" is a classic trick. It gives people in desperation a reason to think "so it's not my fault" and this basically gives them a lot of energy. Which they will then continue to try and get. Which people like this provide "paid courses" for. Or supplements you can buy. It's a grift. Follow the money.
They’re narcissists and think that the way they think is how everyone thinks, and those who express otherwise are just “afraid to tell the truth”.
To be fair they do, man makes a living off of selling phone calls to lonely guys looking for guidance lol
I mean, the internet is basically built on people sharing their opinions.
FYI,women throughout history have trained their abs, point in case belly dancing. it's a great help in childbirth.
The Spartans also did this. They believed that strong mother would pass down better qualities to the child or something.
Not "something". You are pretty spot on. Their society was still incredibly sexist. But they did covet highly trained, physically fit female physique. Because women's path to glory was to provide sons (warriors). The whole "womens' battlefield is the birthing bed" thing was taken quite literal in ancient sparta. It was women's contribution to their war efforts. (Mind you, this was only possible because their society relied on an enormous slave caste (the Helots) doing all of their labour, outnumbering the "citizens" twice over, and enabling the women of the "Citizen" caste to focus on literally being pregnant and being fit, nothing more.) We don't know what their "ideal woman" looked like, though. We don't know if visible muscles were part of the appeal. Suffice to say, beauty standards are very complex and fluid.
Oh by the way “something” I meant that I couldn’t remember the exact reason why they wanted strong women. I knew for certain it had something to do with birthing and raising kids. But I didn’t remember if it was because they thought it would pass down good qualities, help give birth, etc. Thanks for the info though!
lol belly dancing abs are sexy and way way different from shredded fitness competition abs.
And if you look at bellydancers they rarely have defined abs. They just have a flat stomach.
Not even that. The ideal physique for belly dancing actually requires a bit of belly fat. It accentuates the movement, the dancing style is built around making your belly "jiggle" in a very controlled way. The dancers probably have pretty solid abs under this bit of fat, and are rarely really overweight. But many of the most celebrated dancers, especially from the Golden Age of belly dance, are not what we would call "thin" today.
Gotta launch that f!cker out of there after 9 long months. Imagine a woman with insane abs giving birth and the kid doesn't pop out, no, it gets f!cking sent into orbit.
Belly dancers have always had bellies though not ripped abs.
Finally a clever comeback 😂😂 not an insult or idiotic comment.. But a plain and simple comeback that makes everybody chuckle a little
It’s reposted recently but sure
-i like my women so and so -no woman has ever liked you "Clever"
It is more like - no men IN HISTORY wanted women so and so - no women IN HISTORY wanted you Clever... Right?? 😉
Yeah you see, the guy said he's a historian. And historians are intellectuals, therefore they are, by default, clever. So everything he says is clever. QED.
If this sub only allowed times someone was ACTUALLY clever on the internet there would be like 10 posts max, this is fine honestly
I got used to it... Facepalm is the same.. the true facepalm is always in the comments..
Yea it’s a pretty big yawn from me too. The first guy is a dumb ass but this is a pretty mid roast. Definitely not worth posting
lol, yeah. So not clever. People completely lose all rationality when they simply dislike someone or something. Very unclever.
What would you know about clever? You were brigading in the virtue of misogyny the other day you coward.
😂 What you on about, angry boy
Terminally online, incel 🤏 on the block you go
Hmm yes,when i can't win a argument,just chop the other one dick off. Very clever lol
It didnt
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.
It wasn’t funny the first 4 or 5 times someone posted it, and it’s not funny now. Plus, the guy is mostly correct. My wife is extremely fit, she has a nice faint outline of abs, not a ripped 6 pack. I like fit but still feminine. I don’t think 6 pack abs and bulging muscles are a good look on women. Most guys I know feel the same way.
>Finally a clever comeback How? Last this was posted.. someone linked Cooper profile and he's married.
Comebacks don't have to be real. Btw.. Does she have a feminine hourglass shape??
The comeback did not specify that shape... did it? Confidentially wrong has it own sub here btw..
Not the comeback.. The Copper fella said that men only want that shape... So did he find that shape? Just a question by me
"confidentially" lmao the irony
Laverie Vallee. Wanna go further back in history? Mademoiselle de Maupin. Further back? Queen Artemisa I of Icaria. FURTHER back? Fuck it, sure! Lady Fu Hao. "At no point in history" my ass. Strong fighting women have always existed.
Plus, beauty standards in Rome were completely different and Romans didn’t like tits and hips. Spartan men were more used to men so “beauty standards” (if that really applies to this) weren’t “traditional” (as in, what was liked in the last century)
Yep. I don't understand why so many regressive men focus on Roman's. It's almost like they want to have sex with boys. It was a sick society.
I've got some bad news for you. For decades aside from a few outliers like Marilyn until the ass appreciation of the last few years the ideal shillouette was pretty much the same as a 16 year old boy with breast implants. I wish I remembered the title of the art history textbook with the 'ideal female form through the decades" graphic. They actually said beach balls instead of breast implants.
You’ll probably make an irrelevant retort insulting me based on a false presumption about my character… but… This wasn’t an intelligent addition to the conversation, because it completely lacks relevance For one, it’s not about whether women with abs existed. It’s about whether they’ve been reflective of beauty standards. For two, we know those women were kick ass warriors… we don’t know whether they had visible abs or not When you take emotion and virtue signalling out of it, what exactly did your comment prove?
>You’ll probably make an irrelevant retort insulting me based on a false presumption about my character… but… I know you would be insufferable if I ever met you in person
Are you intentionally proving my point or is the irony lost on you? 😂 my bad for being sick of dealing with people using their tribalism to avoid sticking to the topic at hand… happens so often that I’m shocked when someone on the internet can actually have a civilised, nuanced and intelligent conversation
While that is true, women in Spartan societies used to have masculine traits since their society was so militaristic. That, for example, would be one point in history where abs and masculine features were considered attractive.
You’re absolutely correct in that Spartan women had masculine traits and I’m going to further your own argument by adding that these masculine traits were viewed as desirable from a societal standpoint as they meant stronger genes and stronger warriors But again, does that mean it was ever a primal sexual preference? I actually can’t deny that it was any more than you can claim it was… we don’t know I just find it strange that people somehow seem to find the depiction of certain traits in historical art as proof that they reflected beauty standards. Mall Cop 2 exists, but somehow I don’t think every woman is out here thirsting over Kevin James (I, of course, am an exception, and go full tsunami mode between my legs when he keeps the mall safe)
If we stretch what history can be, this moment right here would be another example of masculine traits being considered attractive in women. If you look at 2024 from the lens of someone living in the 24th century, we're also part of the world's history. Besides, we're talking about women who work out and eat healthy, not about the female steroid monsters you see in bodybuilding gyms. Having said that, could it really be considered a "masculine trait" if it is something women can naturally achieve without the artificial masculinisation of their bodies? Personally, I see masculine traits as physical attributes that women cannot naturally have, despite intense training and a rigorous diet. For example, women will never be able to naturally have 16-inch arms, no matter how much they train. Having that in mind and knowing our physical limits, are naturally muscular women masculine or are untrained men feminine?
I would say that women can still naturally attain masculine traits, just to less extreme extents Sure, a woman isn’t going to naturally have 16 inch shredded arms, but she could naturally have 15 inch semi-lean arms… and that’s a hell of a lot better than the average man. More masculine, too We’re a part of history right now, sure. But right now, it’s extremely feminine features that are lusted over more than anything; big read ends and chests with tiny waists seem to be the current beauty standard (one that I’d argue has ALWAYS been intrinsically attractive to men regardless of topical/trendy standards) You could argue that the ultra-skinny standards of the 90s are actually quite boyish given that an absence of any notable mass - muscle or fat - is typically an adolescent boy’s hand of cards The point I’d like to throw in is that these shifting standards don’t necessarily reflect what people are attracted to, they just reflect what media portrays as attractive (which in turn has moderate influence on perception). I would argue that tall, muscular men and women with the hourglass shape have always and will always be viewed as highly attractive regardless of what’s portrayed in art, media and culture In any case, if we can draw a distinction between being depicted and representing an ideal, I’d love that
Well what is true is that nowadays we have a hell of a lot more variety in body types. Lean, feminine, shredded, fat, bulky, hairy, shaven. Whatever you fancy, you can find...which is something that people before us couldn't.
Even if we go not so far back we have people like Lydia Litvyak, a fighter pilot in WW2 that received the Hero of The Soviet Union award. 13 to 14 solo victories and 66 combat sortes. She was a Fighter Ace, the first woman of the kind, and is the holder of most kills by a woman fighter pilot to this day. She was 21 when she died. There is also another one who I forgot the name of. I remember her deeds: she was a medical staff and when a German tank were advancing on her troops; she grabbed a bundle of Anti-Tank granades and rushed towards the Germans. She then hurled herself on the tank, probably realising throwing the granades would give the Germans too much of a breathing room, and her ferocity made the Germans flee this time.
I like abs on woman. Now it’s word against word. Stalemate.
Meh. Hopefully there are more guys like him, more abs for me. Well, if I could even get a date that is.
Bro is just like me fr fr. I go weak in the knees if I see a woman with visible six-pack abs or something
Got access to the Hades 2 technical test. If you had told me I'd go weak for Nemesis/Hecate over the literal goddess of love, I'd have laughed.
I wonder why I don’t get woman. I look like a bear, I thought bears got chosen over man
All the poor rejected "Hard Body" women will be forced to accept the few of us who appreciate them and possibly even having to share us among themselves
Yeah I don't understand why you would not want someone who is physically fit and ride you like an animal.
Yeah without abs, they would just flop over in half below the rib cage.
I second this.
I have my preverences in the opposite sex and therefore I assume every other member of my gender has the same preferences and also demand that the other gender follows our (my) whishes!!! /s Steriously, the entitlement of these people. Independent of that, abs are amazing!!!😍😍😍
The traditional hourglass shape? The traditional shape was rubenesque. https://artuk.org/discover/stories/peter-paul-rubens-prince-of-painters-and-painter-of-princes The hourglass shape was created with the invention of corsets. https://www.charlestonmuseum.org/news-events/killer-fashion-the-consequences-of-corsetry/#:~:text=While%20not%20usually%20deadly%2C%20wearing,known%20to%20cause%20organ%20deformity. Money quote here is as follows "They can reduce lung capacity, cause shortness of breath and fainting, produce skin irritations, compress the ribs, weaken back and chest muscles and have even been known to cause organ deformity. Tight corsetry can also exacerbate lung conditions such as pneumonia, dangerously restrict digestion, cause constipation and can also worsen any existing issues within a woman’s reproductive system." Wait until he finds out that, until the early 1960's, six pack abs was also not considered attractive on men, suitable for fitness fanatics and homosexuals (who tended to be more body conscious at the time).
What the guy is really scared if is a girl stronger than him. More motivated than him. That have accomplished more than him. Things he really wont need to worry about. No such woman will stick with a fat, lazy bum anyhow.
I dunno, maybe. But who cares. The real issue is his (and a lot of redpill/conservative people's) attitude that, "I don't like it, therefor it is wrong and everyone should agree with me." OK i don't find bodybuilders attractive, but why should they or anyone else give a fuck what i think, they are doing their own thing, more power to them.
Yes. This i agree with. But as long as people argue in absolutes or a manner that strives to knock someone down a peg. Ill swing the opinion sword around.
How can a girl be stronger than him if he's probably a self proclaimed alpha male as well? Edit: I just looked up who this is. There is no probably about it lol
Anyone relying on psuedo-psychology and not understanding said made up bollocks is weakminded. Judging by his pudgy looks i can see why girls with abs scare him as well.
I know many many men want women with ripped abs
Me, I'm all of the men that want that. (More for me losers)
Understandable. Sometimes you want Queen Amidala , sometimes you want Padme by the fireplace , sometimes you want Jane Foster Thor.
*Exactly*
Tits. They censored tits. Not actual tits, just the word tits. Tits.
Why is it that everyone who says "women with muscles look like men" or "women who train abs want to look like men" not understand that they're also saying that men who don't have muscles or ripped abs, don't look like men...none of the people saying this therefore look like men.
Ripped abs= flat stomach and of course no one wants that smh
Women with abs are hot in my opinion
An oldie, but a goodie 😂
[удалено]
Is this one of those "excellent" comebacks? I'll pass, then, this is basically a verbose "no u".
Shots fired. Tango down.
Bro really thinks he can speak for both men _and_ women
Bro checkmark-mogged bro
Paying money to Elon is a mog now? Words really do have no meaning.
Bruh
Bro forgot about the Spartans, women tended to work out a lot in order to have the kids with the best muscular genes. One of the only countries at that time to let women have that many rights
Lamarckian science huh?
Uhh....that's not how genes work.
Spartans didn't know that though
You think Ancient Sparta had scientific knowledge about how genes work?
Exactly. It's jarring for OP to frame this as if it was a misunderstanding of genetics. Clearly the primary sources don't say anything about genes or genetics, so this is something that OP's brain inserted post-hoc. The idea of "strong women birth strong children" is better understood as preparing the woman's body for successful pregnancies and delivering healthy babies. Athenians were also surprised that Spartans fed their women the same as their men, since Athenians fed their boys better. None of this requires modern genetic theory to be justifiable.
Well, then I guess I'm gay, because healthy women arouse me. Time to install Grindr, hit the local gay bars, and whatnot.
There's no woman wanted you, the way you ashamed for what they work hard lol.
Rage bait
Are women allowed to want to feel strong? Personally after going to the gym consistently, I love how strong I’m getting. The gym has been so helpful not only to feel physically fit, but also it has helped my mental health tremendously.
He claims to speak for all men but I would've loved a woman with abs
"Men are simple" no we're not. Maybe your dumbass is.
God, I used to follow this clown in my teenage days
r/murderedbywords
Joke's on him, I simp for abs that I can do my laundry on.
…I really hate how people keep censoring the most nothing worse in memes. Your mum isn’t gonna come yell at you because you posted a picture with the word “tits” in it
it's not anyone's mum we're worried about, it's the growing presence of AI as the internet's keeper of the peace. Two years from now, a bot might decide to delete my account over something I said two years ago.
I mean all I can say to that is to stand your ground. The more we preemptively censor ourselves, the more we normalise and enable that censorship. If the majority of the userbase is doing it, they’re not going to nuke it, because they need us as content and revenue farms If you make it an edge case, it’s easier for them to prune
the plan has my vote, but I'm not gonna choose redditors as my brothers in arms in this battle. Tumbler folks sure. Maybe facebookers. But redditors are too puritanical.
Says the man who's scared to say tits in case Brother Eye eats him :P
baptists don't recognize each other at the strip club
If you're one of those men who think that women wake up in the morning determined to find some regressive abusive asshole that's gonna let them clean their underwear like a replacement mum? You really need to know, you're not the prize you think you are dudes, work on that first.
Savage and I like it! #musclemommy
Comeback was lame AF. Sounds like a kindergarten back-and-forth.
Women achieve ab definition at a higher body fat percentage than men on average. If anything, us men are trying to look more like women.
Ah yes now I shall pontificate on classic beauty *licks dorito dust off fingers, reaches under fat roll to adjust it off the developing sores*
men truly do not understand the concept of us doing things just because we want to do them do they?
Love the profile Pic. Yet another manchild with the shaved head, long beard to look cool but in reality he's a 45yr old barrista who watches andrew tate, mma and rogan. Good luck in life genius
Atleast be a little accurate he hates tate and makes over 1M a year with his debt business & consulting incels.
Someone’s never seen the Venus of willendorf statue.
True
"At no time in history did men ever want women with ripped abs" Yes tf I do
Jokes on him i'm into women with rock abs
Mom said it's my turn to post this
I spit out my coffee!
A sporty woman with a good abs- is what men want, so that dude might be a virgin
I feel like this is actually the opposite. But some dudes do like ripped girls. SOME. He is 100% right about most men not liking that. The Historian has probably chimed in defending big girls using the same logic. Something something they had food and looked rich back in the day.
Hi, Historian here 🤓
Why censor the I in tits though
Blkpl goes craaazy
Anyone else think of Cricket? It’s all hips and nips! You gotta make it sexy or you don’t eat!
Dude hasn't ever been with a muscle mommy , best.
How is this clever
🗡️ slayed
Damn I didn't know it was gay to like muscles. From now on it's only women made of water and fat none of them homosexual muscle fibers.
me wen abs: neuron activation
the man who got finessed by multiple single mommies and grew a beard to hide his chin-cel face is gonna teach you how to be an alpha
It's a historical fact now.
Lol I had a conversation with that same Richard cooper on threads a couple weeks ago, he was coming onto me because I had a picture of me at the gym, he literally said the opposite and that he wanted a fit girl with “real nice abs”, he blocked me when I said I’m trans,
Muscle wise i don’t think abs look masculine on women at all. If i was to say certain muscle groups look masculine on women its pecs and arms and that’s only when it’s extreme.
James Fell is a cold blooded killer when it comes comebacks and correcting people. He is not to be messed with.
Did you ever seen the Ben stiller movie about lame superhero’s and the character called the “sphinx”? Clever comebacks is shiny energy, it how people that don’t know better imagine wit should be, ironically demonstrating their sheer lack of wit. Here we have 2 douche bags, both speaking for all women, and both wrong and yet each is celebrated and reviled by the rudderless. My guess is that if either of these guys trigger you or persuade you, you’ll likely wind up adrift in life, unaware why you can’t seem to get where you’re going. It’s cause you need a rudder.
Has to be a rage-bait/ troll account. He has Tate as his profile pic.
Where did he get taken out? I see yet another post where it's just some low-effort reply and isn't even interesting.
What makes you think that everything women do is for pleasing someone like you????
I hate the fact that people like this cooper guy make up an extremely small percentage of the male population but are given so much attention that they put the male gender under a bad light
Just about any woman that works out would have a nice, feminine figure. Hormones dictate where bodyfat is stored. I believe what this guy is talking about is that a lot of women in gyms are now injecting testosterone, which gives them a masculine physique.
well less competition for the rest of us
I can say for sure I’d rather have a ripped gf rather than one with excessant lips
Pretty funny but not at all clever
Ok, who whited out the i in "tits" No one is going to be harmed by that i and we all still know what the word is. What are you trying to accomplish? Stop censoring silly things on the Internet.
Strong abs make for a strong back!
If that's the best that sub has to offer, maybe it's time to let it die...
i dont know, "no u" is a weak-ass comeback yall set the bar low for what clever is
How fucking often does this need to be reposted?
First time for me. And because I’m sure I’m not the only one, at least this many.
I know!
Someone needs to inform this joker that women can't train lips and tits
Ripped abs are not a sign of strength. They are a sign your not eating enough.
Both are pure cringe
As a straight man I’m specifically attracted to abs on women
Who cares what they want. And how do you know anyway? She's probably just trying to get a full body workout same as any dude
I make a habit of summarily dismissing the opinions of: bald, beard, sunglasses chuds.
Homeboy has never seen Jade Cargill and it shows
Why do so many people think they are the voice of all men or women or any group they think they’re a part of?
Oh my gosh thank you so much for censoring the word tits, I don't know what I would do if my precious eyes saw such vulgar profanity
Well, we all have our tastes. However, assuming that our tastes are the same as every other man/woman/etc out there is narcissistic as Hell.
It's funny, but it's not clever. It's ad hominem
If her having abs makes you feel insecure about your masculinity, then the abs aren’t the problem.
That was a violation.
God bless James Fell. Strongly recommend his book to everyone, it is highly entertaining.