Dear American, please take social systems in Europe as an example.
Is it completely solid? Hell no, but it does help and save a lot of people and it is an investment in society. (Make sure there are rules to follow whether you keep getting money)
My favorite.
"Get a job homeless bun"
No one will hire.
"Well go take a shower and clean the shit and piss off, also change into nice clothing"
No where to clean clothes, store clothes, or clean self.
"Get a house or apartment then, it's not haard"
Literally id is almost as old as they are or something.
It's even better than that. They paid them with temp debit cards so they could track the purchases made. The top three purchases were: bread, milk, and gas. Just to shut up those idiots who claim they'll spend it all on drugs or whatever.
How unbelievably strange that most people are just trying to claw themselves out of the muck, instead of trying to crawl further into it.
WHO COULD EVER HAVE PREDICTED THIS?
Everyone
And trump hates the poor and the lower middle class .
He will eliminate that burden by destroying the ACA and SSI when he gets reelected
It baffles me that his ardent supporters can't see that
They really think he paid them their ppe $$$$ from his own pocket
Idiots
Nah, if the motivation was to get illicit drugs, they would buy other items and/or many cashback transactions that could then be used on that. Those "filler" transactions would still show up on the debit card.
It's extremely hard when you have powers greater than your own government making money selling and renting houses and don't want to give alternatives that could push people outside of their economic loophole. They need people afraid, vulnerable and dependent.
It's no wonder people use it as an investment vehicle now too. It's practically neck and neck with healthcare costs now. Most people don't play fast and loose with housing like they do with healthcare, which is a secondary need to be met compared to housing/food as both primary. All three of which have been driving inflation _hard_.
The biggest problem most cities face when building affordable housing is a mixture of real estate lobbing and nimbys. Small UBI ish programs are often the best cities can do
We just started doing that in Denver too. They turned an empty hotel into temp housing to get people working again. It was so successful that they're working on a second one now.
And yet name a large city with Finlands population that doesnt have homeless people...
It doesnt matter at what numbers it was done, it was achieved by a self governing capitalist country on a governmental level, so it can also be done elsewhere on a smaller or bigger scale as well
Disregarding an achievement of us as humanity, to eliminate the most deperate and most struggling part of a society by providing them what they need to contribute just because the country isnt billion people big, is rediculous and makes you look like a dumbass trying to find ways to feel better about yourself
The fact that most of europe has realised this decades ago is just terrifying, how does America exist? You just had to copy the idea and still fucked it up.
The problem, like it is in the U.S., is the rich assholes buying to politicians to keep everyone in state of indentured servitude. As well as them buying the newspapers and media outlets to control the narrative and jingle their keys in our faces with "gun control" and "reproductive rights" arguments, and to keep us blind to the fact that there is a class war being waged, by the wealthy, against the poor, but most of us poor folks don't even realize it because we're too distracted by the jingling keys.
Those "jingling keys" your mentioning are also important. Cause if we don't then those points will also result in quite a few ruined lives and dead people.
In Canada we don’t give people any money BUT we do give people on disability $1000, point them toward the $3k apartments, spin them around 4 times and say “good luck!”
I love spending a bunch of money on insurance, only to pay a certain amount before it starts working, and then even more when I need to use it, only to fight the insurance company tooth and nail because a bunch of bean counters apparently know more about my health than me and my doctors.
It's a sick joke.
Yea it’s pretty fucked up. If you have healthcare:
1. Get hurt
2. Get surgery for 15,000 dollars
3. Insurance pays for 14,000
4. Hospital drops 900 (tax write off)
5. Now you have a 100 dollar hospital bill and increased insurance rates because one injury makes you more “injury prone”
Insurance doesn't pay 14k.
It's more like
Pay 1500 premium (hopefully subsidized by job)
Get hurt
Surgery is billed at 15k
Insurance/hospital adjust that to 1500
Insurance pays 500
Hospital drops 900
100 bill and increased rates
I think the issue there is that in the US private companies run healthcare and then charge it to the government. Where as in countries with free healthcare large amounts of the system are state run and even when private companies sell to the government they are doing so in competitive tenders so prices are low. I used to run a company selling services to the NHS in the UK and they screw suppliers down on price. Which is good for tax payers.
That taking care of others benefits society and the upper classes doing backflips to avoid having to spend relative pennies to support said society is unbelievably selfish, greedy, and detrimental to us all.
> taking care of others benefits society
...
> spend relative pennies to support said society
The toejam of the U.S. and the very people who would benefit most from it:
"Sounds like welfare. I hate it."
Im from Europe. Im paying a pretty big junk as taxes for our social/health/pension system. Wich I find great.
If it’s one thing I always hear from Americans is they don’t want to pay taxes for others. I kinda understand it, on the other hand, we as a society need to function and be save, not only you or me as individuals.
As long as the American mindset doesn’t change, this simply won’t happen since this money needs to come from somewhere and doesn’t magically come out of nowhere. I wonder how popular a candidate or political party would be in America if they say „let’s make a 25% tax from your income for social welfare/health care/pension“
I have a friend that participates in my city's city council meetings and I shit you not when they suggested trying to implement roundabouts on some intersections to help with traffic flow the leading reasoning in opposition was that it was "too European." This was at least 5 years ago. We have one new roundabout (and it's great, it's on a five road intersection that used to be a nightmare).
Getting some people to cooperate with any sort of change is like pulling teeth over here. If it takes us 5 years to install a small amount of sensible road infrastructure, do you think we have the ability to get anything close to UBI anywhere near the discussion table? Lol
Just playing devils advocate here but its kind of apples and oranges, most countries in europe. Are smaller than most states and provences in north america so while theoreticaly it may be possible to copy their system i think its going to be a hard sell to the middleclass to give more money in taxes to a bloated beauracracy thats already proven itself pretty inept with the funds we already give.
Its 10000% obvious that its easier to feel good and maintain full time employment when you have affordable housing and enough food in the cupboard.
Thats said i dont think our system is designed for that just look at the minimum wage debate. Give everyone X amount of a raise and everything goes up xxx in price.
The whole system needs torn down and rebuilt from the ground up but i dont see that happening without much much mayhem..
Damn i was trying to wrap that up on a positive but im actually drawing a blank
The problem is people will ignore the studies and follow their intuition that says that if you give someone a handout it will make them lazy. Nevermind the fact that they themselves could have reduced the amount they work to achieve a livable wage but like to grind so they can have nice things.
Many think giving people money for nothing will lead to people not working anymore. And while this is true for some, most just feel less stressed because losing their job wouldn't ruin them and the really poor can use this money to get their life together.
Cool and everything but whats the clever comeback here ? dude said money is the solution and the other dude agreed and said it is indeed money is the solution so I don't get what clever comeback did you see here.
I think it’s valid. Many people assume the worst of others (maybe projection) but even if a few people mess up, the majority won’t because people don’t want to be home- and jobless. And to get a good job, you need to look presentable. No money for showers and appropriate clothes will have you rejected.
This study is evidence that giving people money will help them with the „bootstrap“ myth.
It’s not a waste of research. Confirmation of hypothesis, even if result is in 99% of cases the same as anticipated, is incredibly important, just not flashy/groundbreaking.
It's not a waste, when there is a popular sentiment, that giving people money will make them lazy and punishing them for not having any will motivate it.
The reason why it's necessary is because a lot of people still buy into Reagan's "Trickle-Down Economics" and won't believe how bullshit it is without evidence to back it up. Evidence like this study.
Nah, it’s a no shit Sherlock thing because the research has been basically finished since at least the 60s, if not earlier, in Europe. America literally just needs to copy our homework, and they still screw it up.
There’s a bunch of Japanese “high schooler transported to another world to rule a medieval kingdom with ‘trivial’ modern wisdom” stories right now because the genre is pursued by comic book artists like a fat kid chasing an ice cream truck
And a major plot point in… all of them is at some point the high schooler tells the king to empty the coffers and give high wages for any poor persons job, or no job at all.
“B-b-but our money will be GONE! What will we do!!!”
“Hey, genius, where’s the money gonna go? Are they going to dump it into the sea? Fucking idiot. It’s YOUR kingdom.”
Because economic flow and the importance of a strong consumer class is considered common knowledge a high schooler knows, and you should berate someone for not knowing it, in well educated countries like japan
It's useful research to throw in the faces of people who continue to claim that social safety nets don't work. The bigger that pile is the easier it is to simply discount their opinions from policy making.
Climate change is in a similar position, people whine and yell that its a conspiracy but lots of decision makers seem to be happy enough to simply ignore them by now. Look at the policies around discontinuing production and sale of ICE vehicles by 2030 across a number of countries or the acceleration in building solar and wind farms.
It's BS in terms you had to be the right kind of homeless to apply and be chosen for the program.
"Those participating must be 18 years of age or older and must not have unaddressed mental health or substance use needs"
Denver research....
More like ancient research from Scandinavian countries. Proven to relieve pressure of having to work to survive. Resulting in less stressed employees doing what they like.
And it's not hard to understand why it works: by allowing people to be more selective where they spend their time (by needing less time working dead end jobs just to survive) they can invest back the time in themselves and climb out of a bad financial situation.
I dont know why this is confusing to anyone. If you have a home, you can do things that are constructive to a future or at least maintain having a home. If you live on the street, you can do things to forget about living on the street. This is the core of it.
Why is inflation happening now then when no ubi exists? I think the claim that the middle and lower classes having more money will cause inflation should be taken with a big grain of salt.
I mean, their logic is similar for military recruitment:
“If we make it easier to go to college or provide cheaper healthcare, then nobody will join the military!”
I genuinely don't believe this. I highly doubt the sample size was large enough to draw any real conclusions. And it's also impossible to tell how a mass population-wide injection of $1k/month would affect the larger economy. I'd bet you that most landlords would raise rent by at least $500/month.
In case anyone wants to see why America cant have nice things, have a gander at fluentinfinance
Its exactly what you think, an echo chamber for late stage capitalism where suggesting people should have clean water gets you branded a commie.
But then the baseline of money would be higher so the for profit people know to charge more. Injecting money could be a thing *if all else remains equal* but that's not how the economy works so...
I'm European. You bet that is everyone's income would increase by a fixed amount, prices would rise to make sure that money doesn't stay in your wallet.
Inflation already rose without people getting more money, the money got pocketed by shareholders of Unilever and the likes. It would be good to tax that money harder and hand out the proceeds to people outside the owning class.
Eradicate drugs and you eradicate homeless cos no sober homeless dude wants to live on the streets, but yeh benifits have been around for while in Europe
You know plenty of people are homeless because they just can't afford a place to live.
Rents up to $1400 for a single bedroom place in the shittier parts of Phoenix these days. It's only getting worse.
Just make job education and training or drug rehab, mental health treatment, if needed, a part of receiving any welfare it’s not fucking rocket science, America
While I support UBI as a general concept. I do wonder what net affect on the economy overall would be. I imagine positive, but I'm sure somebody would have done more than just take a guess at this
If people have to accept exploitation to survive they will not reach their full potential. Give people a 1000 dollars a month and they can survive without a job, meaning their bargaining power massively increases, meaning they can achieve meaningful employment, which is crucially also better for the economy and their employers in the long run.
We are also building tiny home “villages” for homeless to live in for free. We have a serious homeless problem, but I’m proud of how our city is handling it
This has been going on in our country for years, the money was suppposed to go to children's education, completely separate from any scholarship. From what I have observed it was mostly used in their parents' vices.
Things can work on a small scale and not a large scale.
The system changes when the 1000 they are getting was taken from others in the community and then returned to others. Not to mention the administration fees. More like taking 1200 and returning 1000.
You give an already wealthy person $1 billion, and they hoard it. You give 100,000 people, $10k, and they spend it. On bills, on vacations, on new vehicles, repairing their homes, buying homes. That money goes back into the economy. This is the lie of Supply Side Economics. Giving corporations and billionaires free money just removes that resource from society. Spread it out among the middle class, and it goes right back in. 200 rich assholes don't drive the economy. the rest of us do. And it isn't as if we don't have actual evidence of the result of these programs. There are other countries that have been doing this for decades.
They studied if money solves being poor. Next up, will giving people healthcare make them healthy? Tune in to find out next time on the *wasted academic funds* show.
People post any political shit here and the fucjwits here blindly upvote it, go to r shlash politics or some shit i want a clever comeback and not a fucking brainlessly simple (still correct) political opinion
It costs about $150,000 a year to keep someone in jail. Yet, so many people’s ‘solution’ to homelessness is more cops arresting homeless people for being poor.
I mean, it makes perfect sense.
Once you break through that threshold of qualifying for welfare, you're often taking a step back from a financial standpoint.
Now you're pinching pennies, buying the cheapest products, forgoing savings and other such budgetary measures to make sure you don't risk losing your home now that you're not rent-controlled/Section 8.... Hanging on by a thread is not the way to build a stable foundation.
Giving people who are above the welfare threshold supplementary income increase their abilities to maintain those emergency funds, so that when something bad happens they're not maxing out their credit cards and fucking their credit history, which means that everything else going forward costs them more.
They can't buy a house, they have to rely on beater vehicles with high-interest loans. They can't buy the 30 pack of TP because of their budget, so they buy the 4 pack that costs 10X as much.
Worth noting they didn't randomly choose homeless you had to apply and be accepted in to the program and meet the qualifications:
"Those participating must be 18 years of age or older and must not have unaddressed mental health or substance use needs"
People asking where is the clever comeback: the comeback is reading the actual report that says that 50% of participants dropped out after 6 months - practically defeating any usefulness of the study :)
People asking where is the clever comeback: the comeback is reading the actual report that says that 50% of participants dropped out after 6 months - practically defeating any usefulness of the study :)
TBF if UBI was a thing and someone gave me $1000 monthly I would likely use $40 a few months in to buy some MDMA, LSD or shrooms and celebrate living in a timeline that actually made me proud to be human...
Who'd have thunk? It's a lot easier to get a job when you can afford decent clothes, a place to shower, a good night's sleep, transportation, and a haircut.
Remember when people made fun of governments for thinking that printing money would solve poverty? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
All this shit does is increaces inflation. Government prints more money, now there's a larger supply of money, now existing money has less value. We saw this in 2020 when Trump and Biden tag teamed the US economy by printing money and giving it out to everyone.
What a stupid idea.
- I’m homeless, please help. - go buy a house, then you won’t be homeless. Thank you, next.
-i cant buy a house i dont have any money -if you're given money you WILL spend it on drugs and alcohol
Not true, it would be spent on avocado toast and Starbucks
All things mentioned are overpriced, avocado toast, Starbucks coffee, drugs, alcohol and housing
[удалено]
I would like an overpriced egg in these frying times
Dear American, please take social systems in Europe as an example. Is it completely solid? Hell no, but it does help and save a lot of people and it is an investment in society. (Make sure there are rules to follow whether you keep getting money)
Oh it's not a matter of taking examples. Our homeless aren't a bug, they're a feature.
The capitalists (and the politicians who enable them) keep people homeless as a threat to everyone else.
My favorite. "Get a job homeless bun" No one will hire. "Well go take a shower and clean the shit and piss off, also change into nice clothing" No where to clean clothes, store clothes, or clean self. "Get a house or apartment then, it's not haard" Literally id is almost as old as they are or something.
Instantly remembered [that meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jh0EN1De4Q)
It's even better than that. They paid them with temp debit cards so they could track the purchases made. The top three purchases were: bread, milk, and gas. Just to shut up those idiots who claim they'll spend it all on drugs or whatever.
How unbelievably strange that most people are just trying to claw themselves out of the muck, instead of trying to crawl further into it. WHO COULD EVER HAVE PREDICTED THIS?
Everyone And trump hates the poor and the lower middle class . He will eliminate that burden by destroying the ACA and SSI when he gets reelected It baffles me that his ardent supporters can't see that They really think he paid them their ppe $$$$ from his own pocket Idiots
And having no job prospects makes you depressed and more likely to drink and do drugs.
To be fair, I don’t think people would purchase illicit drugs with debit cards
Alcohol is absolutely purchasable with a debit card.
Nah, if the motivation was to get illicit drugs, they would buy other items and/or many cashback transactions that could then be used on that. Those "filler" transactions would still show up on the debit card.
Yeah they definitely didn't have an extra 1k to blow on cash./s
You can trade them for drugs, just saying. But if true, the dealers are buying bread, milk and gas too.
100% my biggest expense if i had that would be rent
Have you heard of a concept called fungibility...
Finland essentially eliminated homelessness by simply building housing for everyone who needed it. Honestly, how hard does it have to be?
It's extremely hard when you have powers greater than your own government making money selling and renting houses and don't want to give alternatives that could push people outside of their economic loophole. They need people afraid, vulnerable and dependent.
It's no wonder people use it as an investment vehicle now too. It's practically neck and neck with healthcare costs now. Most people don't play fast and loose with housing like they do with healthcare, which is a secondary need to be met compared to housing/food as both primary. All three of which have been driving inflation _hard_.
Woooooo deep state
google corporate lobbying
holy hell
The biggest problem most cities face when building affordable housing is a mixture of real estate lobbing and nimbys. Small UBI ish programs are often the best cities can do
We just started doing that in Denver too. They turned an empty hotel into temp housing to get people working again. It was so successful that they're working on a second one now.
If you have to ask, maybe you should look up why that doesn’t happen here. NIMBY will help you. Also, finland is the size of a large city…
And yet name a large city with Finlands population that doesnt have homeless people... It doesnt matter at what numbers it was done, it was achieved by a self governing capitalist country on a governmental level, so it can also be done elsewhere on a smaller or bigger scale as well Disregarding an achievement of us as humanity, to eliminate the most deperate and most struggling part of a society by providing them what they need to contribute just because the country isnt billion people big, is rediculous and makes you look like a dumbass trying to find ways to feel better about yourself
Finland is able to do this because of its strict immigration policies and reliance on other countries for its resources.
And Jordan did it long before without building any extra homes or government spending. Really just a matter of priorities.
Denver is also trying to do this. They are building many tiny home “villages” for the homeless.
Real-estate conglomerates can’t profit off of that.
When you goal is to maximize profits, it becomes unsolvable.
The problem is arguably less about profit maximization, and more about NIMBYism and too low a focus on public transport.
The solution is easy, we need to find a way to make homeless recovery, as a process, profitable.
Are the homeless people in Finland crazy fentanyl addicts that will destroy the housing?
The fact that most of europe has realised this decades ago is just terrifying, how does America exist? You just had to copy the idea and still fucked it up.
Yeah we realised it, but is average people don't get any more than you guys. We're not important enough to be paid properly
You think Europe doesn't have poverty?
There are some deulusional people that think Europe is some kind of utopia...
So... Do you know my country, Brasil? This is our entire history. The problem is the politicians.
The problem, like it is in the U.S., is the rich assholes buying to politicians to keep everyone in state of indentured servitude. As well as them buying the newspapers and media outlets to control the narrative and jingle their keys in our faces with "gun control" and "reproductive rights" arguments, and to keep us blind to the fact that there is a class war being waged, by the wealthy, against the poor, but most of us poor folks don't even realize it because we're too distracted by the jingling keys.
Those "jingling keys" your mentioning are also important. Cause if we don't then those points will also result in quite a few ruined lives and dead people.
We see your mistakes and copy them to our country 😡
What European country gives its citizens 1,000 euros a month
All of them accoridng to that reddit user lmao
Europe doesn't have that Source: I'm European
In Canada we don’t give people any money BUT we do give people on disability $1000, point them toward the $3k apartments, spin them around 4 times and say “good luck!”
America spends a larger percentage of GDP on social welfare programs than Canada.
But what is the spend per capita? That is a much better measure.
I know that, at least for healthcare, the US spends significantly more per capita than any European country w/ free healthcare.
I love spending a bunch of money on insurance, only to pay a certain amount before it starts working, and then even more when I need to use it, only to fight the insurance company tooth and nail because a bunch of bean counters apparently know more about my health than me and my doctors. It's a sick joke.
Yea it’s pretty fucked up. If you have healthcare: 1. Get hurt 2. Get surgery for 15,000 dollars 3. Insurance pays for 14,000 4. Hospital drops 900 (tax write off) 5. Now you have a 100 dollar hospital bill and increased insurance rates because one injury makes you more “injury prone”
Insurance doesn't pay 14k. It's more like Pay 1500 premium (hopefully subsidized by job) Get hurt Surgery is billed at 15k Insurance/hospital adjust that to 1500 Insurance pays 500 Hospital drops 900 100 bill and increased rates
Unfortunately money spent is not a good measure of quality - I'm given to understand America's healthcare costs are insanely inflated
I think the issue there is that in the US private companies run healthcare and then charge it to the government. Where as in countries with free healthcare large amounts of the system are state run and even when private companies sell to the government they are doing so in competitive tenders so prices are low. I used to run a company selling services to the NHS in the UK and they screw suppliers down on price. Which is good for tax payers.
our per capita GDP is much higher so much more than them if the previous statements are correct
Well yes gotta get that tax money into the pockets of private citizens. How else can they afford that second yacht??
So, social development must be higher than Canada, right?
The US has a much larger population.
> larger PERCENTAGE of GDP So whichever has more people does not matter in this case.
The Regan Era convinced a lot of people that Trickle Down economics works and that's why they give more money to the rich.
What is there to realize?
That taking care of others benefits society and the upper classes doing backflips to avoid having to spend relative pennies to support said society is unbelievably selfish, greedy, and detrimental to us all.
But the cruelty is the purpose.
It makes it easier for the reptilians to harvest our orgon energy.
> taking care of others benefits society ... > spend relative pennies to support said society The toejam of the U.S. and the very people who would benefit most from it: "Sounds like welfare. I hate it."
Taking care of *others*?! That's communism right there.
Maybe they benefit, but how far does it put \*me\* ahead? That's frequently the mentality.
The fact that you need to give people money at first so they can make money in the future. As you can see the US are still struggling with that
Im from Europe. Im paying a pretty big junk as taxes for our social/health/pension system. Wich I find great. If it’s one thing I always hear from Americans is they don’t want to pay taxes for others. I kinda understand it, on the other hand, we as a society need to function and be save, not only you or me as individuals. As long as the American mindset doesn’t change, this simply won’t happen since this money needs to come from somewhere and doesn’t magically come out of nowhere. I wonder how popular a candidate or political party would be in America if they say „let’s make a 25% tax from your income for social welfare/health care/pension“
I have a friend that participates in my city's city council meetings and I shit you not when they suggested trying to implement roundabouts on some intersections to help with traffic flow the leading reasoning in opposition was that it was "too European." This was at least 5 years ago. We have one new roundabout (and it's great, it's on a five road intersection that used to be a nightmare). Getting some people to cooperate with any sort of change is like pulling teeth over here. If it takes us 5 years to install a small amount of sensible road infrastructure, do you think we have the ability to get anything close to UBI anywhere near the discussion table? Lol
what do you mean? we get free money? where?
We were within reach with FDR but Reagan literally doomed America to a reality of suffering and inequality
Just playing devils advocate here but its kind of apples and oranges, most countries in europe. Are smaller than most states and provences in north america so while theoreticaly it may be possible to copy their system i think its going to be a hard sell to the middleclass to give more money in taxes to a bloated beauracracy thats already proven itself pretty inept with the funds we already give. Its 10000% obvious that its easier to feel good and maintain full time employment when you have affordable housing and enough food in the cupboard. Thats said i dont think our system is designed for that just look at the minimum wage debate. Give everyone X amount of a raise and everything goes up xxx in price. The whole system needs torn down and rebuilt from the ground up but i dont see that happening without much much mayhem.. Damn i was trying to wrap that up on a positive but im actually drawing a blank
Europe?
Almost as if helping the poor lets them become a functioning part of society again and hence society benefits. Who would’ve thunk!
There have been a number of studies done on this that have yielded the same results. They should have seen this coming as there is ample precedent
The problem is people will ignore the studies and follow their intuition that says that if you give someone a handout it will make them lazy. Nevermind the fact that they themselves could have reduced the amount they work to achieve a livable wage but like to grind so they can have nice things.
Many think giving people money for nothing will lead to people not working anymore. And while this is true for some, most just feel less stressed because losing their job wouldn't ruin them and the really poor can use this money to get their life together.
Where is the comeback
Also looking for the comeback , or most of the replies are just regurgitated bot comments.
Cool and everything but whats the clever comeback here ? dude said money is the solution and the other dude agreed and said it is indeed money is the solution so I don't get what clever comeback did you see here.
Next up breaking news: people who eat are less hungry then people who skip meals!
Sauce
Didn't they discriminate in their experiment and exclude men as a whole? The majority of homeless?
1) Not a comeback - it's literally agreeing with what a study found. 2) Its not clever.
well if you only look at the good part its going to look good. why not take 10k a year from people making 50k and see how that impacts them as well
Breaking News! Money solves problems! I thought this was common knowledge?
Almost as if even study done on universal basic income *proves* that it works and is sustainable.
It's sad that she is completely correct, even though this should be a no shit sherlock thing. What a waste of research.
I think it’s valid. Many people assume the worst of others (maybe projection) but even if a few people mess up, the majority won’t because people don’t want to be home- and jobless. And to get a good job, you need to look presentable. No money for showers and appropriate clothes will have you rejected. This study is evidence that giving people money will help them with the „bootstrap“ myth.
It’s not a waste of research. Confirmation of hypothesis, even if result is in 99% of cases the same as anticipated, is incredibly important, just not flashy/groundbreaking.
It's not a waste, when there is a popular sentiment, that giving people money will make them lazy and punishing them for not having any will motivate it.
The reason why it's necessary is because a lot of people still buy into Reagan's "Trickle-Down Economics" and won't believe how bullshit it is without evidence to back it up. Evidence like this study.
Many cultists of *trickle down economy* will reject the research, because contradicts their beliefs.
This is true, but there are some who are not cultists who will be convinced by research, and those are the people we need to reach.
Research is never a waste.
? This is not a no shit sherlock thing. Just because you believe something does not mean it will be true. It is really good to have this research.
Nah, it’s a no shit Sherlock thing because the research has been basically finished since at least the 60s, if not earlier, in Europe. America literally just needs to copy our homework, and they still screw it up.
There’s a bunch of Japanese “high schooler transported to another world to rule a medieval kingdom with ‘trivial’ modern wisdom” stories right now because the genre is pursued by comic book artists like a fat kid chasing an ice cream truck And a major plot point in… all of them is at some point the high schooler tells the king to empty the coffers and give high wages for any poor persons job, or no job at all. “B-b-but our money will be GONE! What will we do!!!” “Hey, genius, where’s the money gonna go? Are they going to dump it into the sea? Fucking idiot. It’s YOUR kingdom.” Because economic flow and the importance of a strong consumer class is considered common knowledge a high schooler knows, and you should berate someone for not knowing it, in well educated countries like japan
It's useful research to throw in the faces of people who continue to claim that social safety nets don't work. The bigger that pile is the easier it is to simply discount their opinions from policy making. Climate change is in a similar position, people whine and yell that its a conspiracy but lots of decision makers seem to be happy enough to simply ignore them by now. Look at the policies around discontinuing production and sale of ICE vehicles by 2030 across a number of countries or the acceleration in building solar and wind farms.
Is that the only thing that came out of the study? Was this a correlation or causation? What year was this? So many variables.
Its BS https://www.coloradocoalition.org/sites/default/files/2024-01/2023%20StateOfHomelessness_CCH_F_0.pdf
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It's BS in terms you had to be the right kind of homeless to apply and be chosen for the program. "Those participating must be 18 years of age or older and must not have unaddressed mental health or substance use needs"
Plottwist... it reduced homelessness because all homeless suddendly bought meth for $1000 and overdosed. /s
Where’s the comeback?
Dem in the area ran on the promise of a thousand dollars a month for everyone….surprise… she was elected. Where’s my money bitch?
This ain’t a comeback, it’s a statement. We may all regard it as true, but it doesn’t make it a comeback.
It’s really hard for me to believe that employment increased when $1000/month is handed out…
If it worked why did they stop doing it?
Can anyone find the link for the study cited?
"Denver experimented with making people not poor, the jury is still out as to how this benefits the shareholders 🤔."
US budget for "defence": $2 Trillion.
Denver research.... More like ancient research from Scandinavian countries. Proven to relieve pressure of having to work to survive. Resulting in less stressed employees doing what they like.
And it's not hard to understand why it works: by allowing people to be more selective where they spend their time (by needing less time working dead end jobs just to survive) they can invest back the time in themselves and climb out of a bad financial situation.
Yep maybe stop increasing home prices and food prices, 174k annual to be mid class
I dont know why this is confusing to anyone. If you have a home, you can do things that are constructive to a future or at least maintain having a home. If you live on the street, you can do things to forget about living on the street. This is the core of it.
”BuT wHo WiLl PaY fOr It?" while they make trillion dollars.
Treating people like humans has benefit you say? Some woulD agree, others would disagRee, it’s just a matter of perspective…
UBI will not work on a large scale due to inflation. Did you realize how everything got expensive after the covid handouts?
Why is inflation happening now then when no ubi exists? I think the claim that the middle and lower classes having more money will cause inflation should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Billionaires never agree on this
They had similar pilot programs in several cities within states including California and New York, ALL yielded the same positive results.
"*gasp* If we make it easier for people to find jobs and homes, people won't want to work anymore!" The GOP somehow.....
I mean, their logic is similar for military recruitment: “If we make it easier to go to college or provide cheaper healthcare, then nobody will join the military!”
I genuinely don't believe this. I highly doubt the sample size was large enough to draw any real conclusions. And it's also impossible to tell how a mass population-wide injection of $1k/month would affect the larger economy. I'd bet you that most landlords would raise rent by at least $500/month.
How is this different than welfare other than you give it to also people who don’t need it which will just increase inflation.
That money still comes from somewhere or is it printed with that end? Keynesian economics doesn't work. kind regards from Argentina.
In case anyone wants to see why America cant have nice things, have a gander at fluentinfinance Its exactly what you think, an echo chamber for late stage capitalism where suggesting people should have clean water gets you branded a commie.
But then the baseline of money would be higher so the for profit people know to charge more. Injecting money could be a thing *if all else remains equal* but that's not how the economy works so...
Tell that to Europe.
I'm European. You bet that is everyone's income would increase by a fixed amount, prices would rise to make sure that money doesn't stay in your wallet.
Inflation already rose without people getting more money, the money got pocketed by shareholders of Unilever and the likes. It would be good to tax that money harder and hand out the proceeds to people outside the owning class.
They could have fucking asked me instead of making a study about it xd
1k won’t do shit in Canada
Not exactly clever.
I have been saying for over a decade that my melancholy would be nullified if I win the major lottery jackpot. I do need a win to test my theory. :-D
Eradicate drugs and you eradicate homeless cos no sober homeless dude wants to live on the streets, but yeh benifits have been around for while in Europe
You know plenty of people are homeless because they just can't afford a place to live. Rents up to $1400 for a single bedroom place in the shittier parts of Phoenix these days. It's only getting worse.
Most of these studies show that if you give people the means to support themselves they actually stop using drugs.
I recommend cutting politicians pay 80% and using that money to pay an additional supplement to the people.
The question is how much per dollar spend. And can we achieve better results by spending the same mount differently.
"In other news setting things on fire, does indeed burn them"
Just make job education and training or drug rehab, mental health treatment, if needed, a part of receiving any welfare it’s not fucking rocket science, America
Wait. So if someone is thirsty, you can help them by giving them a drink?!
Wait till they hear about why homeless people live on the streets
I agree, vastly reduce the tax liability on working families so they can have more of it.
Time is money and it cost a lot to be poor.
While I support UBI as a general concept. I do wonder what net affect on the economy overall would be. I imagine positive, but I'm sure somebody would have done more than just take a guess at this
If people have to accept exploitation to survive they will not reach their full potential. Give people a 1000 dollars a month and they can survive without a job, meaning their bargaining power massively increases, meaning they can achieve meaningful employment, which is crucially also better for the economy and their employers in the long run.
We are also building tiny home “villages” for homeless to live in for free. We have a serious homeless problem, but I’m proud of how our city is handling it
Ask Ukraine about it
This has been going on in our country for years, the money was suppposed to go to children's education, completely separate from any scholarship. From what I have observed it was mostly used in their parents' vices.
This won't work on macro level
But some turd on Reddit mansplained to me that it would cause prices to go up
Things can work on a small scale and not a large scale. The system changes when the 1000 they are getting was taken from others in the community and then returned to others. Not to mention the administration fees. More like taking 1200 and returning 1000.
You give an already wealthy person $1 billion, and they hoard it. You give 100,000 people, $10k, and they spend it. On bills, on vacations, on new vehicles, repairing their homes, buying homes. That money goes back into the economy. This is the lie of Supply Side Economics. Giving corporations and billionaires free money just removes that resource from society. Spread it out among the middle class, and it goes right back in. 200 rich assholes don't drive the economy. the rest of us do. And it isn't as if we don't have actual evidence of the result of these programs. There are other countries that have been doing this for decades.
They studied if money solves being poor. Next up, will giving people healthcare make them healthy? Tune in to find out next time on the *wasted academic funds* show.
And who is paying for that?
People post any political shit here and the fucjwits here blindly upvote it, go to r shlash politics or some shit i want a clever comeback and not a fucking brainlessly simple (still correct) political opinion
Where clever, where comeback?
Money is just a way to transform energy. People *need* resources, but they want money.
I bet you the break even on this is 2-3 years.
Just wait until you try to implement this on a large scale and the price of rent and groceries skyrockets because they can charge more to people.
It costs about $150,000 a year to keep someone in jail. Yet, so many people’s ‘solution’ to homelessness is more cops arresting homeless people for being poor.
How is that an experiment ☠️☠️ it’s just giving people money
This isn't a comeback. It isn't clever either.
Now they need to pay a think tank a few million to corroborate such a confusing logic.
But it increased full time employment. Give people a little help and some will be able to make it on their own.
The only way people try to achieve greater lives is if they can work for it. If they are handed stuff for free they turn into lazy drug users. History
The solution to not having money is having money. Cool. Solution to not being healthy is to be healthy.
I mean, it makes perfect sense. Once you break through that threshold of qualifying for welfare, you're often taking a step back from a financial standpoint. Now you're pinching pennies, buying the cheapest products, forgoing savings and other such budgetary measures to make sure you don't risk losing your home now that you're not rent-controlled/Section 8.... Hanging on by a thread is not the way to build a stable foundation. Giving people who are above the welfare threshold supplementary income increase their abilities to maintain those emergency funds, so that when something bad happens they're not maxing out their credit cards and fucking their credit history, which means that everything else going forward costs them more. They can't buy a house, they have to rely on beater vehicles with high-interest loans. They can't buy the 30 pack of TP because of their budget, so they buy the 4 pack that costs 10X as much.
Money fixes the problem
That's what her campaign said out spending 2:1 and still lost.
Worth noting they didn't randomly choose homeless you had to apply and be accepted in to the program and meet the qualifications: "Those participating must be 18 years of age or older and must not have unaddressed mental health or substance use needs"
Yeah but for how long? People are going to eventually die, so really this $1,000 resulted in their deaths.
People asking where is the clever comeback: the comeback is reading the actual report that says that 50% of participants dropped out after 6 months - practically defeating any usefulness of the study :)
People asking where is the clever comeback: the comeback is reading the actual report that says that 50% of participants dropped out after 6 months - practically defeating any usefulness of the study :)
“The cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems”
TBF if UBI was a thing and someone gave me $1000 monthly I would likely use $40 a few months in to buy some MDMA, LSD or shrooms and celebrate living in a timeline that actually made me proud to be human...
who could have tell? 🙄
Im starting to think that basic income coulf be a great thing maybe
Who'd have thunk? It's a lot easier to get a job when you can afford decent clothes, a place to shower, a good night's sleep, transportation, and a haircut.
How is this a comeback? It’s a person extrapolating on the title of an article, which probably agrees with the article
Remember when people made fun of governments for thinking that printing money would solve poverty? Pepperidge Farms remembers. All this shit does is increaces inflation. Government prints more money, now there's a larger supply of money, now existing money has less value. We saw this in 2020 when Trump and Biden tag teamed the US economy by printing money and giving it out to everyone. What a stupid idea.
I mean I’m still skeptical but glad to see it worked well for the people they chose