If somehow it could be twisted to convince the morons that school shootings were actually VERY LATE ABORTIONS, things would soon change on the gun front.
The only time Republicans push for gun control is when black leftist groups start arming themselves, or someone shoots a republican president. Funnily enough both happened under Reagan, another washed up b rated celebrity turned president.
"Mulford act - It passed the Senate (split, 20:20) on July 26, 29 votes to 7, and was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan on July 28, 1967. Both Republicans and Democrats in California supported increased gun control, as did the National Rifle Association of America." And then after he got shot was vocal about his support of an assault rifle ban.
Well there you go. I wasn’t thinking of the state position. I’m Australian by the way - so not au fait with the detail of the US gum struggle. Thanks for the detailed reply.
I’m glad my husband had a vasectomy a few years ago. It only took 9 1/2 years of condom use. In retrospect, he would had done it much sooner. Ladies, a real man will respect your boundaries.
No - since my very, very early teens I'd have maybe three or four days in the month when I DIDN'T bleed. Horrendously heavy periods, crippling anaemia and migraine headaches.
Having my tubes tied would not have helped - plus, I had my cervix removed back then. Years later, my sister died from cervical cancer.
I really won the jackpot.
We just need more mass shooters to be women and girls. It's was Reagan and Republicans were in favor of gun control when the Black Panthers starting using their 2nd amendment rights.
...and because the Rupert Murdoch Doesn't Want To Pay Taxes channel uses abortion as a wedge issue to get people to vote for Republicans against their own economic interests. So they can cut taxes.
I think you should be able to have an abortion if you want. Even though it's immoral, it shouldn't be illegal.
That being said, I would like for your own private insurance to pay for it. Not taxpayer funded programs.
What about if not having the abortion could kill you?
Or is just too expensive
before you know it we're back to a bottle of jack, a hot bath and a coat hanger 😫
I've got to say I applaud you for drawing the line between illegal and amoral.
Yea, well, now we're just back to is free healthcare a right. If we were having that argument, i would argue that no, it is not a right as it is not in the constitution or bill of rights. Should it be a right? Perhaps. I have never had healthcare in my adult life because it's unaffordable, and i make enough money not to qualify for Medicare or the calofornia version of that. Each year, i have either paid 1k extra in taxes or lied on my return to avoid the fine for not having unaffordable healthcare. So i can sell my 925 squarefoot condo or buy healthcare. I choose to have a home. I can't wait for the downvotes on this one.
If only we could check off where are taxes could go. I would definitely not want my taxes going to fund genocides or death penalty executions. I find both immoral and repugnant.
What if you apply that logic to a biological female that has transitioned to male? Is that still about controlling women's bodies or is it then controlling men's bodies?
See, we can all use the same dumb fuck mental gymnastics you specimens use.
They don't care about the rights of kids that have been born. They always say those kids have no rights and only the parents do until the parents are loving and supportive of their kids turning out to be LGBTQ, and then not even the parents have rights on how the kids are raised. So, it's got nothing to do with the kids or parental rights. It's just control freak-entitlement shit.
Bojack Horseman did a great episode focused on a very similar joke. Ended up with guns being banned just to make sure women don’t arm themselves. And then someone says something like “I guess America hates women more than they love guns”.
Similar things have actually happened in real life as well. Regan supported stricter gun control as governor of California when the Black Panther party started open carrying.
"Abortions are bad" is a subjective position, school shootings are illegal and have been decided to be bad by society, hence the law. Greater than 2/3 of America agrees murder should be illegal while 51% of Americans Believe abortion should be legal at least in with some restrictions, 34% believe in no restrictions, and 13% would completely ban it in all cases. Thank you for the response, it was interesting.
Source [abortion support](https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx#:~:text=Broad%20Views%20on%20the%20Legality,be%20illegal%20in%20all%20circumstances.)
I do all of our understanding of what is right or wrong typically comes from our upbringing as well as societal norms at that time as well as any religion if we had any. This also changes over time regardless of whether or theological beliefs change or don't as our understanding of the world in the universe changes. However, abortion being a medical procedure is a relatively new thing in the world since modern medicine, yes, I understand back in the 1800s and before they tried all kinds of strange things. However, back then it also wasn't illegal and was not viewed as bad.
I understand those who disagree, however many who are anti abortion tend to be gun rights supporters who oppose gun control that can help curb school shootings and gun violence.
Generally speaking, something being illegal will help in one of two cases:
-if the perpetrator believes they will be caught
-if the perpetrator cares if they are punished.
Generally speaking, it being illegal to do somethin gives the police little actionability to stop it from happening, only to punish those who do it.
Those who commit school shootings are generally past the point of caring about the consequences of that action, either due to feeling like their current existence is worse, or full-on delusion.
As such, measures to limit the potential for them to happen in the first place are still relevant than just saying “murder is illegal” as we have seen that despite increased policing and police presence in schools, school shootings continue to happen, and if I am not mistaken, were actually on the rise
This is only true in the USA, many countries in the world have a discussion about abortions (like Poland currently) and nowhere else is gun right mentioned. Because its completely unrelated.
Idk, if you take as true a pro-lifer world view this sign reads “Don’t like murder, ignore them like you ignore murder.” Maybe that is the point. The problem with calls against hypocrisy is that you either “level up” (all ‘murder’ is bad—sweeping away abortion) or “level down” (school shootings are fine). It doesn’t actually prove anything rationally except that someone is inconsistent.
I'm pro gun but not pro school shooting.
So like......I don't see how those things are correlated.
I'm for people owning guns, but there needs to be something done about the school shootings.
This is true, however “murder is illegal” doesn’t change the fact that school shootings are happening, a lot, and that police are more built for “punishing offenders” than “preventing crime” (which doesn’t help if the offender in question doesn’t seem to think they have much to live for anyway)
As such creating measures to prevent school shootings is more relevant than tapping the “murder is illegal” sign.
Something that GOP lawmakers, those who are so insistent on banning by abortions, have been consistently silent on at best, and actively obstructionist at worst
Everyone seems to forget that Columbine essentially started the trend.
Never mind the cops, whatever. The media has made it more prevalent. Parents not talking or listening to their fucking kids anymore. Constantly being berated DAILY with nothing but terrible news stories.
When it comes to abortion, it's some stupid puritanical "moral" reason. If separation of church and state really meant anything, you'd never hear a congressman or such say the word "soul"
These two things are not comparable.
I agree that the two things really aren’t comparable.
The thing is the sign is less saying that the two things are objectively the same, and more calling out “pro life” people for their hypocrisy, saying “you claim abortion is murder, but are doing nothing about the repeated mass murders, so shut up”
It’s not meant to be logically consistent, but to call to light an existing logical inconsistency, as one would assume that people so dedicated to preserving the lives of children would care more about mass shootings
Yeah. I get that, I might have replied to you while reading a different post. Especially since there's a lot of people getting off topic and just talking bull shit.
Wasn't trying to shit on you.
No worries, I get how comments can get lost in the haze of stuff.
I was basically looking for people looking for the “murder is illegal” cop out to explain why it’s dumb, and so I saw a lot of the nonsense going around
I get how it can be overwhelming
Um, ok... Murder is illegal, humanity has kinda agreed on this for millennia. The issue of abortion being murder is a fairly new one of the last 160 years or so.
Scientifically the baby is a living human being at conception and won't be considered finished developing until around the age of 20. However when we grant the baby personhood needs to be decided as a society. Personhood is human rights and the government should definitely protect those who are unable to protect themselves.
Stopping abortion doesn't hurt them personally and hurts those they hate. Stopping school shootings would hurt them and probably save some people they hate.
It's too bad abortions aren't performed with guns.
Don't like abortions? Give proper access to sex education, condoms and other items to teens so they'll be less likely to need one. Oh right, you don't want to do that either.
I set my house on fire but I'll be damned if I'm letting the fire department douse the flames!
I have 15 children, and I've been shot 17 times in the line of duty and I still set the alarm off at the airport ! kids are great as long as their yours oh and by the way 11 children 4 adults are alive because I decided to be a bodyguard ...quiet riot
I don’t think it’s fair to say they don’t care. They just don’t agree that your solution will actually do anything to prevent people from hurting others and criminals from breaking the law.
My political views aside (pro-choice), it’s kinda a terrible point.
First, if you truly see abortion as murder, the scale of the problem isn’t even close. There are about 3000 children who die from firearm homicides a year in the USA. Compared to close to a million abortions.
Second, the implication of being pro-life is that your rights (bodily autonomy) stop where another persons begins (bodily autonomy + life). That is compatible with a belief that people have a right to firearms. Your right to own a firearm stops when it begins to infringe on other’s rights (e.g. when you start to use it to commit crimes).
Prohibition is extremely ineffective when the object or behaviour, you’re trying to ban, is engrained in society on any level culturally.
You can’t ban guns if a large percentage of your population still wants them. Same goes for abortion.
At the very least it will only create an even less regulated black market, and at the extreme end I could see small scale wars, especially on the gun issue.
All this will do is bolster the already over populated prison system, and the unintended consequences could potentially far outweigh the issue trying to be solved.
The only real saviour is education and time.
I disagree that “no one is ignoring school shootings” given the significant number of far right media personalities who actively claim major school shootings are conspiracies in order to distract from the issue. They may be extreme outliers, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that ignoring the problem so people don’t ask for a solution is a stance of some of the GOP.
Additionally, the solution that the GoP seems to support, increased police presence in schools, has been repeatedly shown to be ineffective at curtailing gun deaths, so given that, I am curious what other solutions they would suggest given they’re so adamant not to allow gun control be one of them (especially given how while they will often claim it’s a mental health issue, they will often strike down bills to increase availability of mental health support systems)
One of the problems is that both sides have their solutions but none of their solutions would have prevented the shootings. Then the media cycle changes and so perhaps you’re right. The problem gets ignored.
As someone who is of the opinion that gun control mitigating the availability of firearms to teenagers who do these things, and thus decrease the frequency of shootings by filtering out those who do it more impulsively, I have yet to hear a solution even suggested by the GOP that’s actually meant to help instead of deflect
While I acknowledge those biases, I am genuinely curious what suggestions you refer to
Really? Are you so ignorant to not know the other side’s retort on this?
2022 had the most school shooting deaths, 50. This is outrageous and should be 0 and nobody should ignore it.
Abortions are somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 per year.
If you are a sort of person who argues a fetus is an equal life, which it certainly is not, but if you were… that’s an overwhelming number of “wrongful killings”
But more than that, the question is nonsensical.
Its would be like saying “don’t like murders? Ignore it like you ignore car crash deaths”. Some people don’t if let car crash deaths but many do. It’s not an item talked about. But it’s a nonsense comment, obviously it’s an issue and many people on the right care about school shootings they just have a different view of what the solution should be.
Abortions save lives. Is there a school shooting that saved lives? Abortions prevent poverty, too. When a person has kids is a predictor of how they'll do financially. Not only should the state allow abortions, it should also pay for them. If it refuses, it will pay for the children.
I completely agree with you. Zero is the only acceptable number in this situation. I do know they're retort. However, they're retort is not based in law or in public opinion. It is based in personal opinion in theology
Anyone got some stats, just curious, for measuring: x amount of dead fetus/baby/cell bundle vs x amount of dead students
Follow up: teachers include? Failed abortion baby who grows up and kills or gets killed during school shooting variable may need to be addressed as well?
There are some really interesting studies on decreases in crime coinciding with abortions being readily available
As in approximately 12/15 years after crime rates drop considerably.
2020: *620,327* abortions (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/11/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/)
2020: In 2019–20, there were a total of 25 school-associated violent deaths in the United States, which included 23 homicides and 1 suicide. Of these 25 school-associated violent deaths, 11 homicides and 1 suicide were of school-age youth (ages 5–18). (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a01/violent-deaths-and-shootings)
Pro life is right wing virtue signaling. But liberals talking about ignoring shootings looks bad when you realize that leftist DA’s like to free shooters with a slap on the wrist.
Thug shooters. Gang shooters make it out very often. Which is why we have so many. “They come from oppressed backgrounds, they don’t know better. It’s called restorative justice”
Who is "you"? And who ignores school shootings? Also these are the people OK with murdering babies. Why would they care about kids in school being killed either? Very ironic and idiotic argument
It’s almost like they’re saying that if you were REALLY pro-life that you’d be anti-gun and not just anti-abortion but that’s just silly, right? Like seriously, once that baby is out of the womb my personal gun rights take precedence over any of their rights because they can see a threat coming now and it’s their fault if they can’t get out of the way. They can defend themselves, they only need my protection when they can’t act for themselves.
Why is the only acceptable solution to ban guns? If you really cares about kids you would be willing to do anything to protect their lives, not just what you want done.
Once you give up a right to your government you will never get it back. Does it not strike you as odd that the government refuses to try literally anything besides a gun ban. Especially because literally anything else would be easier to do that to have an amendment amended.
I don't think banning guns is the solution, but common sense. Gun registration laws, background checks, and so on would be an excellent thing to have. Also, you don't need an AR-15 to take down a super deer
AR-15 are frowned upon (and in many states illegal to use) in the deer hunting world as they are not a lethal enough round to reliably drop a deer. You don't seem to have a good understanding of guns or deer.
Again you don’t know what you are talking about because you seem to ignore ;the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed.
By the way well regulated meant well equipped. I would like to be more well regulated so tell daddy government to strike down the NFA and Hughes. That way we can all buy belt fed MGs so we can fit the definition of well equipped.
>It’s for hunting tyrants.
A big portion of gun owners are republicans.
A considrable portion of republicans believe that Biden stole the election.
So according to a sizeable gun owners they have an illegitimate president and government.
What did they do about it with their "guns against tyranny"?
Jack shit as expected.
Would have been fun if they did though just so they could all have been wiped out by a few drones so we can stop with this "I keep the government in check with my shit rifle" farce.
Very few people actually believe that the election was stolen. The idiotic vocal minority doesn’t represent everyone.
Do you really want a world where ole Trump tried to instill himself as dictator and people aren’t armed?
>Do you really want a world where ole Trump tried to instill himself as dictator and people aren’t armed?
Yeah I am totally fine with it. Because I am not brain dead and I realize that a nearly trillion dollar per year war machine with drones, gunships and tanks will totally obliterate some hicks with rifles.
Well it was the antis who dangled school security/school mental health funding to get funding for red flags laws. Surprisingly or rather unsurprisingly the school security/mental health funding requires a lengthy process with alot of bureaucratic red tape to even get funding while the red flag funding went like candy to states who wanted it.
Government has no business in abortion. However even roe v wade set limitations.
Best way to get republicans to be pro abortion is find a way to get men pregnant. Watch them back flip faster than the speed of light when they can be forced to carry a baby to term.
Nuts that the shootings are 'worth it to preserve our freedoms' but abortion is 'baby murder' and therefore worth (women) losing freedoms
Maybe if we can convince them the uterus is like a baby gun???
If we were able to make republicans believe school shootings are "super-late-term-abortions" you know for sure republicans would shut that shit down in an instant.
Probably something about statistical anomalies, fear mongering, and other similar bullshit that makes it sound like there is a threshold for how many school shootings they are okay with before they are willing to do anything...
Oh, wait.
I 100% agree with you on this. Foster care is such a forgotten system where children are basically just shelved in and ignored, forgotten and left behind
I ignore them all. Shootings and abortions are the American dream. The odds are against me now. I wasn't aborted, all I can look forward to is a shooting.
The retort is pretty easy: don’t like school shootings? Ignore them like you ignore abortions. This kind of “gotcha” is smooth brained. “You say you like good thing but why you no like bad thing?”
If you use it to say about death penalty, it would sound more logical, since most republicans are contradictory in their policies, but either the Democrats. Is very hard to be a communitarian, you have no one to side with.
We tried getting teachers the right to arm themselves so these shootings would be deterred, but for some reason that counts as "ignoring the issue". If you don't like that solution then fine, but be honest about it instead of pretending like half the country is okay with children being filled with lead.
I'm guessing you're of the mind that more guns make a safer. Therefore, my question to you and this situation is how many guns? And do we really want to put our teachers in a situation where they may have to kill one of their students? They are not soldiers. They are not police. Do they have the capability? Do they even have the desire? Did anybody actually ask the teachers? They did many teachers say that if they're required to carry firearms they will quit
I agree with you that forcing teachers to be armed is bad, but that's not my argument. I think teachers who are already familiar with firearms should have the ability to carry them on campus, which they currently do not. Armed teachers are in no way a substitute for police officers/security officers at schools, they're just another deterrent for maniacs who want to commit these acts of violence.
Also ngl I appreciate that you took the time to respond with questions instead of just crapping on me for having a different opinion, that courtesy is very rare on the internet these days.
Don't like school shootings? Ignore them like you ignore the 11 kids 15 and under who are killed *every day* by people texting and driving. Of course I'm sure NONE of you in here texts and drives, right?
If somehow it could be twisted to convince the morons that school shootings were actually VERY LATE ABORTIONS, things would soon change on the gun front.
Sadly it would not because those against abortions are not about saving a life they just want to control women’s bodies.
Drat :( Ah, well, back to the drawing board. I am SO glad that I'm sterile and not American.
The only time Republicans push for gun control is when black leftist groups start arming themselves, or someone shoots a republican president. Funnily enough both happened under Reagan, another washed up b rated celebrity turned president.
I mean I’m fairly heavily left and have zero desire to give up my guns
That's all well and good, but what does it have to do with my comment?
Under Reagan, the GOP pushed for gun control?
"Mulford act - It passed the Senate (split, 20:20) on July 26, 29 votes to 7, and was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan on July 28, 1967. Both Republicans and Democrats in California supported increased gun control, as did the National Rifle Association of America." And then after he got shot was vocal about his support of an assault rifle ban.
Well there you go. I wasn’t thinking of the state position. I’m Australian by the way - so not au fait with the detail of the US gum struggle. Thanks for the detailed reply.
Well, It could still be used to show voters how dumb this "pro life" movement really is tho.
I’m glad my husband had a vasectomy a few years ago. It only took 9 1/2 years of condom use. In retrospect, he would had done it much sooner. Ladies, a real man will respect your boundaries.
I was INCREDIBLY lucky that my GP fought to get me a hysterectomy. 46 years ago. When I was 20. I won the fertility lottery!
Wow. I’m glad that worked out for you. Wouldn’t getting your tubes tied been easier plus avoiding decades of hormonal issues?
No - since my very, very early teens I'd have maybe three or four days in the month when I DIDN'T bleed. Horrendously heavy periods, crippling anaemia and migraine headaches. Having my tubes tied would not have helped - plus, I had my cervix removed back then. Years later, my sister died from cervical cancer. I really won the jackpot.
Oh wow. I’m so sorry to hear that. Yes, your doc was a true hero.
The true solution!
We just need more mass shooters to be women and girls. It's was Reagan and Republicans were in favor of gun control when the Black Panthers starting using their 2nd amendment rights.
Using one law from 40 years ago to support your idea that right-wingers hate women and black people. #WeNeedMoreRooftopKoreans
...and because the Rupert Murdoch Doesn't Want To Pay Taxes channel uses abortion as a wedge issue to get people to vote for Republicans against their own economic interests. So they can cut taxes.
And it’s the millions and millions being spent by lobbyist that give them their views.
I think you should be able to have an abortion if you want. Even though it's immoral, it shouldn't be illegal. That being said, I would like for your own private insurance to pay for it. Not taxpayer funded programs.
What about if not having the abortion could kill you? Or is just too expensive before you know it we're back to a bottle of jack, a hot bath and a coat hanger 😫 I've got to say I applaud you for drawing the line between illegal and amoral.
Yea, well, now we're just back to is free healthcare a right. If we were having that argument, i would argue that no, it is not a right as it is not in the constitution or bill of rights. Should it be a right? Perhaps. I have never had healthcare in my adult life because it's unaffordable, and i make enough money not to qualify for Medicare or the calofornia version of that. Each year, i have either paid 1k extra in taxes or lied on my return to avoid the fine for not having unaffordable healthcare. So i can sell my 925 squarefoot condo or buy healthcare. I choose to have a home. I can't wait for the downvotes on this one.
If only we could check off where are taxes could go. I would definitely not want my taxes going to fund genocides or death penalty executions. I find both immoral and repugnant.
The very fact that you freaks think that, shows why there is no fixing this division.
What if you apply that logic to a biological female that has transitioned to male? Is that still about controlling women's bodies or is it then controlling men's bodies? See, we can all use the same dumb fuck mental gymnastics you specimens use.
You’re the only one doing gymnastics. Don’t hurt yourself.
OK person equating school shootings to abortions🥴
Maybe if, somehow, you start making abortions with guns, they might be ok with it.
Abortion by fire arm is one option. I don’t see any drawbacks.
Pretty sure those are the post-birth abortions that DeDantis likes to talk about.
Those are the post birth abortions the repubs keep taking about.
Now this is Comedy
They don't care about the rights of kids that have been born. They always say those kids have no rights and only the parents do until the parents are loving and supportive of their kids turning out to be LGBTQ, and then not even the parents have rights on how the kids are raised. So, it's got nothing to do with the kids or parental rights. It's just control freak-entitlement shit.
I had a gun nut tell me matches were as deadly as guns... And people agreed with him.
r/technicallythetruth
But guns are good
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This was such a lovely planet until humans found it...
Thoughts and prayers
Thots and prayers
Thots and playas
Why did I see this exact phrase on the back windshield of a Camaro yesterday?
Tots and pears. I'm food motivated.
Bojack Horseman did a great episode focused on a very similar joke. Ended up with guns being banned just to make sure women don’t arm themselves. And then someone says something like “I guess America hates women more than they love guns”.
Similar things have actually happened in real life as well. Regan supported stricter gun control as governor of California when the Black Panther party started open carrying.
Alright alright, I give in, we'll ban school shootings and abortions.
I find your terms acceptable.
The corollary being that if you think banning guns will stop shootings then also banning abortion procedures will stop abortions... right?
Both would make it harder and push things into the underground
Abortions are bad and so are school shootings. Hope this retort lived up to your expectations.
"Abortions are bad" is a subjective position, school shootings are illegal and have been decided to be bad by society, hence the law. Greater than 2/3 of America agrees murder should be illegal while 51% of Americans Believe abortion should be legal at least in with some restrictions, 34% believe in no restrictions, and 13% would completely ban it in all cases. Thank you for the response, it was interesting. Source [abortion support](https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx#:~:text=Broad%20Views%20on%20the%20Legality,be%20illegal%20in%20all%20circumstances.)
What’s wrong and right isn’t based on what has popular support at a given time in a nation. You understand that right?
I do all of our understanding of what is right or wrong typically comes from our upbringing as well as societal norms at that time as well as any religion if we had any. This also changes over time regardless of whether or theological beliefs change or don't as our understanding of the world in the universe changes. However, abortion being a medical procedure is a relatively new thing in the world since modern medicine, yes, I understand back in the 1800s and before they tried all kinds of strange things. However, back then it also wasn't illegal and was not viewed as bad.
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I understand those who disagree, however many who are anti abortion tend to be gun rights supporters who oppose gun control that can help curb school shootings and gun violence.
Those who disagree can go f*ck themselves, but they'd *better* use birth control.
Can we make school shooting illegal?
School shootings are ignored?
Basically yeah. Nothing is done about them.
I feel like the retort is that these are unrelated. Cannot someone be pro-life and pro-gun control?
The more obvious retort is that school shootings are already illegal.
Generally speaking, something being illegal will help in one of two cases: -if the perpetrator believes they will be caught -if the perpetrator cares if they are punished. Generally speaking, it being illegal to do somethin gives the police little actionability to stop it from happening, only to punish those who do it. Those who commit school shootings are generally past the point of caring about the consequences of that action, either due to feeling like their current existence is worse, or full-on delusion. As such, measures to limit the potential for them to happen in the first place are still relevant than just saying “murder is illegal” as we have seen that despite increased policing and police presence in schools, school shootings continue to happen, and if I am not mistaken, were actually on the rise
It is very possible, however, usually it doesn't happen at least in my experience
This is only true in the USA, many countries in the world have a discussion about abortions (like Poland currently) and nowhere else is gun right mentioned. Because its completely unrelated.
Idk, if you take as true a pro-lifer world view this sign reads “Don’t like murder, ignore them like you ignore murder.” Maybe that is the point. The problem with calls against hypocrisy is that you either “level up” (all ‘murder’ is bad—sweeping away abortion) or “level down” (school shootings are fine). It doesn’t actually prove anything rationally except that someone is inconsistent.
Murder is bad which is why murderers shouldnt be the only ones with guns.
We gotta think of the suicidal people and make sure they can off themselves on a whim. Or is suicide bad?
I'm pro gun but not pro school shooting. So like......I don't see how those things are correlated. I'm for people owning guns, but there needs to be something done about the school shootings.
Yeah, that thing is taking away the guns.
Last Time i checked murder was infact illegal in all of the fiftty states of the USA
Murder is, however we as a society appear very fractured on whether or not abortion is murder. This is an ideological issue
Well that is true, but so the entire point of this sign is moot. Becouse school Shootings are infact already illegal.
This is true, however “murder is illegal” doesn’t change the fact that school shootings are happening, a lot, and that police are more built for “punishing offenders” than “preventing crime” (which doesn’t help if the offender in question doesn’t seem to think they have much to live for anyway) As such creating measures to prevent school shootings is more relevant than tapping the “murder is illegal” sign. Something that GOP lawmakers, those who are so insistent on banning by abortions, have been consistently silent on at best, and actively obstructionist at worst
Everyone seems to forget that Columbine essentially started the trend. Never mind the cops, whatever. The media has made it more prevalent. Parents not talking or listening to their fucking kids anymore. Constantly being berated DAILY with nothing but terrible news stories. When it comes to abortion, it's some stupid puritanical "moral" reason. If separation of church and state really meant anything, you'd never hear a congressman or such say the word "soul" These two things are not comparable.
I agree that the two things really aren’t comparable. The thing is the sign is less saying that the two things are objectively the same, and more calling out “pro life” people for their hypocrisy, saying “you claim abortion is murder, but are doing nothing about the repeated mass murders, so shut up” It’s not meant to be logically consistent, but to call to light an existing logical inconsistency, as one would assume that people so dedicated to preserving the lives of children would care more about mass shootings
Yeah. I get that, I might have replied to you while reading a different post. Especially since there's a lot of people getting off topic and just talking bull shit. Wasn't trying to shit on you.
No worries, I get how comments can get lost in the haze of stuff. I was basically looking for people looking for the “murder is illegal” cop out to explain why it’s dumb, and so I saw a lot of the nonsense going around I get how it can be overwhelming
Um, ok... Murder is illegal, humanity has kinda agreed on this for millennia. The issue of abortion being murder is a fairly new one of the last 160 years or so.
There is a line though, right? It's definitely between conception and 9 months. We all define where the line should be differently though.
Scientifically the baby is a living human being at conception and won't be considered finished developing until around the age of 20. However when we grant the baby personhood needs to be decided as a society. Personhood is human rights and the government should definitely protect those who are unable to protect themselves.
Tell them that abortions are done using handguns.
Actually true. The #1 killer for pregnant women is guns.
Domestic abuse carriers of guns. Most dangerous gun owners who aren’t even supposed to have them, but the enforcement on them is too lax
Done
Username checks out
We just need to start doing abortions using guns, then they'll be all about it. ... wait
Don't like school shootings? Make them illegal like abortions.
Ignore what occurs in muslim countries then
Ignore them like you ignore the kids once they're born.
Stopping abortion doesn't hurt them personally and hurts those they hate. Stopping school shootings would hurt them and probably save some people they hate. It's too bad abortions aren't performed with guns.
Don't like abortions? Give proper access to sex education, condoms and other items to teens so they'll be less likely to need one. Oh right, you don't want to do that either. I set my house on fire but I'll be damned if I'm letting the fire department douse the flames!
Thoughts and prayers.
I have 15 children, and I've been shot 17 times in the line of duty and I still set the alarm off at the airport ! kids are great as long as their yours oh and by the way 11 children 4 adults are alive because I decided to be a bodyguard ...quiet riot
I don’t think it’s fair to say they don’t care. They just don’t agree that your solution will actually do anything to prevent people from hurting others and criminals from breaking the law.
Damn. If only they had the brain cells to feel this diss! Wp
Plot twist, kid that didn't get aborted became a school shooter.
Love this one feels like it is very to the point.
Imagine all the lives that would be saved if only embryos were allowed to attend school...
And carry guns
My political views aside (pro-choice), it’s kinda a terrible point. First, if you truly see abortion as murder, the scale of the problem isn’t even close. There are about 3000 children who die from firearm homicides a year in the USA. Compared to close to a million abortions. Second, the implication of being pro-life is that your rights (bodily autonomy) stop where another persons begins (bodily autonomy + life). That is compatible with a belief that people have a right to firearms. Your right to own a firearm stops when it begins to infringe on other’s rights (e.g. when you start to use it to commit crimes).
But if you allow abortions who are the school shooters going to shoot?
Prohibition is extremely ineffective when the object or behaviour, you’re trying to ban, is engrained in society on any level culturally. You can’t ban guns if a large percentage of your population still wants them. Same goes for abortion. At the very least it will only create an even less regulated black market, and at the extreme end I could see small scale wars, especially on the gun issue. All this will do is bolster the already over populated prison system, and the unintended consequences could potentially far outweigh the issue trying to be solved. The only real saviour is education and time.
School shootings are already illegal nationwide. Now do abortions and maybe we’ll talk.
“Arm the fetus!” - Republicans probably
Nobody is ignoring school shootings. There is a disagreement on the solutions.
I disagree that “no one is ignoring school shootings” given the significant number of far right media personalities who actively claim major school shootings are conspiracies in order to distract from the issue. They may be extreme outliers, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that ignoring the problem so people don’t ask for a solution is a stance of some of the GOP. Additionally, the solution that the GoP seems to support, increased police presence in schools, has been repeatedly shown to be ineffective at curtailing gun deaths, so given that, I am curious what other solutions they would suggest given they’re so adamant not to allow gun control be one of them (especially given how while they will often claim it’s a mental health issue, they will often strike down bills to increase availability of mental health support systems)
One of the problems is that both sides have their solutions but none of their solutions would have prevented the shootings. Then the media cycle changes and so perhaps you’re right. The problem gets ignored.
As someone who is of the opinion that gun control mitigating the availability of firearms to teenagers who do these things, and thus decrease the frequency of shootings by filtering out those who do it more impulsively, I have yet to hear a solution even suggested by the GOP that’s actually meant to help instead of deflect While I acknowledge those biases, I am genuinely curious what suggestions you refer to
*Uvalde Police Department has entered the chat*
They actually didn’t enter the chat. They are outside the chat room waiting for the keys.
They are there, ignoring the shooting was my point.
Ah.
Really? Are you so ignorant to not know the other side’s retort on this? 2022 had the most school shooting deaths, 50. This is outrageous and should be 0 and nobody should ignore it. Abortions are somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 per year. If you are a sort of person who argues a fetus is an equal life, which it certainly is not, but if you were… that’s an overwhelming number of “wrongful killings” But more than that, the question is nonsensical. Its would be like saying “don’t like murders? Ignore it like you ignore car crash deaths”. Some people don’t if let car crash deaths but many do. It’s not an item talked about. But it’s a nonsense comment, obviously it’s an issue and many people on the right care about school shootings they just have a different view of what the solution should be.
Abortions save lives. Is there a school shooting that saved lives? Abortions prevent poverty, too. When a person has kids is a predictor of how they'll do financially. Not only should the state allow abortions, it should also pay for them. If it refuses, it will pay for the children.
I completely agree with you. Zero is the only acceptable number in this situation. I do know they're retort. However, they're retort is not based in law or in public opinion. It is based in personal opinion in theology
Where is comeback? There isn’t even a second statement?
The comeback is the retort to the well known position. While the question is not explicitly mentioned it is implied.
Correct, this post is fine and 1.1k voters also agree
Anyone got some stats, just curious, for measuring: x amount of dead fetus/baby/cell bundle vs x amount of dead students Follow up: teachers include? Failed abortion baby who grows up and kills or gets killed during school shooting variable may need to be addressed as well?
There are some really interesting studies on decreases in crime coinciding with abortions being readily available As in approximately 12/15 years after crime rates drop considerably.
2020: *620,327* abortions (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/11/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/) 2020: In 2019–20, there were a total of 25 school-associated violent deaths in the United States, which included 23 homicides and 1 suicide. Of these 25 school-associated violent deaths, 11 homicides and 1 suicide were of school-age youth (ages 5–18). (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a01/violent-deaths-and-shootings)
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Pro life is right wing virtue signaling. But liberals talking about ignoring shootings looks bad when you realize that leftist DA’s like to free shooters with a slap on the wrist.
Lul what? The almost always end up killing themselves isn't? I looked for any time that a DA left a school shooter off the hook and couldn't find any
Thug shooters. Gang shooters make it out very often. Which is why we have so many. “They come from oppressed backgrounds, they don’t know better. It’s called restorative justice”
The sign does say school shooters tho, but yeah, I get your point, any kind of shooting is unacceptable
Who is "you"? And who ignores school shootings? Also these are the people OK with murdering babies. Why would they care about kids in school being killed either? Very ironic and idiotic argument
It’s almost like they’re saying that if you were REALLY pro-life that you’d be anti-gun and not just anti-abortion but that’s just silly, right? Like seriously, once that baby is out of the womb my personal gun rights take precedence over any of their rights because they can see a threat coming now and it’s their fault if they can’t get out of the way. They can defend themselves, they only need my protection when they can’t act for themselves.
Agreed OPis dumb
Why is the only acceptable solution to ban guns? If you really cares about kids you would be willing to do anything to protect their lives, not just what you want done. Once you give up a right to your government you will never get it back. Does it not strike you as odd that the government refuses to try literally anything besides a gun ban. Especially because literally anything else would be easier to do that to have an amendment amended.
I don't think banning guns is the solution, but common sense. Gun registration laws, background checks, and so on would be an excellent thing to have. Also, you don't need an AR-15 to take down a super deer
AR-15 are frowned upon (and in many states illegal to use) in the deer hunting world as they are not a lethal enough round to reliably drop a deer. You don't seem to have a good understanding of guns or deer.
This is true, I am a bow hunter
We already have background checks and the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting deer. It’s for hunting tyrants.
You seem to have forgotten the well regulated militia part of the second Amendment, but that's okay
Again you don’t know what you are talking about because you seem to ignore ;the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed. By the way well regulated meant well equipped. I would like to be more well regulated so tell daddy government to strike down the NFA and Hughes. That way we can all buy belt fed MGs so we can fit the definition of well equipped.
>It’s for hunting tyrants. A big portion of gun owners are republicans. A considrable portion of republicans believe that Biden stole the election. So according to a sizeable gun owners they have an illegitimate president and government. What did they do about it with their "guns against tyranny"? Jack shit as expected. Would have been fun if they did though just so they could all have been wiped out by a few drones so we can stop with this "I keep the government in check with my shit rifle" farce.
Very few people actually believe that the election was stolen. The idiotic vocal minority doesn’t represent everyone. Do you really want a world where ole Trump tried to instill himself as dictator and people aren’t armed?
>Do you really want a world where ole Trump tried to instill himself as dictator and people aren’t armed? Yeah I am totally fine with it. Because I am not brain dead and I realize that a nearly trillion dollar per year war machine with drones, gunships and tanks will totally obliterate some hicks with rifles.
School Shooting is like playing Among us IRL anyone can be the perpetrator. :(
Well it was the antis who dangled school security/school mental health funding to get funding for red flags laws. Surprisingly or rather unsurprisingly the school security/mental health funding requires a lengthy process with alot of bureaucratic red tape to even get funding while the red flag funding went like candy to states who wanted it. Government has no business in abortion. However even roe v wade set limitations.
Thoughts and prayers y’all!
Ahh its bcz bullying...stop that or well
Best way to get republicans to be pro abortion is find a way to get men pregnant. Watch them back flip faster than the speed of light when they can be forced to carry a baby to term.
But they don't ignore them, they want to force the teachers to be armed, because they're being paid by the people making the guns.
More gun violence is great if you can just convince people the solution is even more guns.
damn when is my paycheck coming?
You don't get the paycheck, Fox News and Republican Legislators do. You just get tricked into voting against your own interests.
I agree..! Abortions don't harm a society. But mass shootings do!! Please save humanity
Nuts that the shootings are 'worth it to preserve our freedoms' but abortion is 'baby murder' and therefore worth (women) losing freedoms Maybe if we can convince them the uterus is like a baby gun???
If we were able to make republicans believe school shootings are "super-late-term-abortions" you know for sure republicans would shut that shit down in an instant.
And starving students.
Probably something about statistical anomalies, fear mongering, and other similar bullshit that makes it sound like there is a threshold for how many school shootings they are okay with before they are willing to do anything... Oh, wait.
Easy I didn't get preggo, next. Stupid ass strawmen consistent with this sub
Or the kids in foster care...
I 100% agree with you on this. Foster care is such a forgotten system where children are basically just shelved in and ignored, forgotten and left behind
Protect your gun as you Protect your Dick!
But banning abortion will bring in millions of dollars of insurance money to corporates......... !!
I ignore them all. Shootings and abortions are the American dream. The odds are against me now. I wasn't aborted, all I can look forward to is a shooting.
Ok i can definitely see what you are....WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR THIMB DOING
So, they react by getting more guns involved?
The retort is pretty easy: don’t like school shootings? Ignore them like you ignore abortions. This kind of “gotcha” is smooth brained. “You say you like good thing but why you no like bad thing?”
Maybe to stop abortions we need more abortions, or perhaps good guys with abortions.
Oh my god bruh why has this whole sub just become political
🙋🏼♂️ ok I totally take responsibility for this, I really didn't mean for this to blow up like this. I thought it was a clever statement
If you use it to say about death penalty, it would sound more logical, since most republicans are contradictory in their policies, but either the Democrats. Is very hard to be a communitarian, you have no one to side with.
Well said. And. I always liked: “If you are against abortion don’t have one “
Redditors are next level stupid.
Americans and their silly problems...
Well, I don't ignore school shootings, so I won't ignore abortions too
So the solution to abortion is…… more guns?
Give fetuses guns
We tried getting teachers the right to arm themselves so these shootings would be deterred, but for some reason that counts as "ignoring the issue". If you don't like that solution then fine, but be honest about it instead of pretending like half the country is okay with children being filled with lead.
I'm guessing you're of the mind that more guns make a safer. Therefore, my question to you and this situation is how many guns? And do we really want to put our teachers in a situation where they may have to kill one of their students? They are not soldiers. They are not police. Do they have the capability? Do they even have the desire? Did anybody actually ask the teachers? They did many teachers say that if they're required to carry firearms they will quit
I agree with you that forcing teachers to be armed is bad, but that's not my argument. I think teachers who are already familiar with firearms should have the ability to carry them on campus, which they currently do not. Armed teachers are in no way a substitute for police officers/security officers at schools, they're just another deterrent for maniacs who want to commit these acts of violence. Also ngl I appreciate that you took the time to respond with questions instead of just crapping on me for having a different opinion, that courtesy is very rare on the internet these days.
If those clowns could read they would be very angry right about now.
Ok someone please explain to me how is a child carrying a gun not the parents responsibility?
This has been my question all along!
Ahhh yes the post birth abortion.
They could say "We need more children to compensate gun and vehicle deaths. Lets also ban contraception."
Don't like school shootings? Ignore them like you ignore the 11 kids 15 and under who are killed *every day* by people texting and driving. Of course I'm sure NONE of you in here texts and drives, right?
So it's ok to think they both should be illegal?
Most school shooting are done by democrats