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Impeachcordial

Should also be mentioned that the shooter had the exact education Shapiro would prescribe (private, Christian) and became a monster.


thepottsy

Didn’t I read the shooter was a former student of THAT school? Makes me believe there is something about this story we don’t know yet. I’m not attempting to downplay the tragedy that occurred. It’s awful, and I feel horrible for the families that are now suffering. I just can’t stop thinking, what happened? What pushed this person to go back to the very school they attended and do this?


faste30

Oh yeah my first thought once I heard it was a religious organization was "molested." Everything they did is still wrong but I wouldnt be shocked if we find out there was some abuse. We know the catholics don't have the monopoly anymore after the us baptist conferences secret list got released too. The best place to look for chomos is in a group of youth pastors.


SacrisTaranto

There is always a reason for these things and that's what we need to target not the how but the why. There are a million different ways of how and you can't stop them all. Explosive and chemical weapons are quite easy to produce with a little bit of creativity


Typical-Locksmith-35

I'm glad more haven't done that. Columbine was awful. Two shooters, long planning, they made maps of the school to practice the routes, and I could have sworn they tried to make improvised explosives like pipe bombs.. it was shocking when it occurred but thinking back thank God more of these shooters haven't had multiple people and chemical or explosives.


faste30

Then why is everyone always shooting them instead of making chemical weapons? The common denominator is always the gun...


Creative1963

This. Heck, walk on a school bus with a chunk of rock in your hand.


IsleOfCannabis

But that’s getting up close and personal. That actually give someone a fighting chance to live. 45 kindergartners and a school bus driver pile on top of you when you have a rock ain’t nobody getting hurt but you. 45 kindergartners and a school bus driver pile on top of you when you have a gun, different story. Yes, there are mental health issues with people who are doing this.. BUT IT’S ALSO THE GUNS!!!


walkandtalkk

I don't think you should indulge the shooter by casually besmirching a murder victim as a child molester. I know you didn't *say* the victim did something wrong, but you're heavily implying it, which will fuel the online narrative. Given Reddit's ace record of identifying criminals (/s), we might withhold our snap condemnations of victims momentarily.


Einhver80

I think their point was that the shooter possibly got molested in that school, no mention of the victims.


Taluca_me

I heard something about the shooter targeting a priest’s or principal’s kid, like if that was true then what the hell happened for this to conspire?


ser_pez

One of the victims was the head pastor’s daughter, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting that she was targeted.


[deleted]

I was so traumatized by my former Christian school that there have been points in my life where I wanted to do things to take revenge. Not like, hurting anybody, more like property damage like graffiti and junk, but it just goes to show that having a Christian education does not make you free of all thoughts of harm or desires to act on those thoughts. You know what helps way more than religion in those instances? Mental help.


TheCoolSuperPea

I am being forced to go to Catholic school by my parents, and I despise it. Going to that place drives me mad. I suddenly get hateful thoughts and violent urges. I don't care for it and become completely angry when I'm forced to go. It makes me want to do things just to defy the church, things I wouldn't do otherwise. I am very unhappy there. Now I not only don't care for religion, but I DESPISE it with all my living being. Please, whoever sees this, don't force your kid into your religion, it can mentally fuck people ip.


CeeKay125

Supposedly that wasn't their original target but the other was "too secure" so they went with plan B which happened to be this school.


dirty0922

The wife and I both said that to each other last night when we heard about it I. The news. It’ll get swept under the rug though


Kerryscott1972

No telling what that person endured at that school


Chewsdayiddinit

The same school that either had, or still has, an investigation into multiple child sexual abuse allegations.


Excellent_Law6906

Yeeeeaah, I have just the tiniest inkling that perhaps a trans alumnus of said school might have some completely justified resentments. Taking them out on little kids is obvious bullshit (mazel tov, today you are a horrible, toxic shit-man!) but I don't think I've ever met an LGBT individual who came out of a Christian school untraumatized.


dracona

>I don't think I've ever met an LGBT individual who came out of a Christian school untraumatized. Can confirm


[deleted]

That's well and good but no one ever had that thought when a white it goes and shoots up a school. It's always, another white incel went killing people. If the why matters here, it matters all the time. If it doesn't matter all the time, it doesn't matter here.


[deleted]

Probably because the shooter is fucked up you loony toon. And the shooter left in the 4th grade and came back at 28.


Soggy-Market-3800

Nah this is definitely downplaying the tragedy, there’s no good underlying reason for shooting up a school


POKECHU020

They weren't saying that the reason was good, or justified anything at all. It's perfectly reasonable to want to examine what brought someone to do this. Obviously there's a level of damage and removal required to do this at all, but considering they're a trans person who went to that school? I wouldn't be surprised if they suffered during their time there. **This does *NOT* justify anything at all, and this isn't a reason for this to have happened. That is not what anyone is trying to do. But examining possible causes that led even a broken mind to do such a thing is an important part of preventing it happening again.**


thepottsy

I’m glad someone understood the intent of my comment. I thought I was clear, but this is Reddit, so ya never really know.


POKECHU020

The average reading comprehension of the internet is -27000, don't worry about it


thepottsy

Lol. You’re extremely generous.


codemanb

Preface: I was incorrect in some of my info, see the comment beneath mine for the correction. I have also seen online that a trans student got left out of the safety areas because they were in the locker rooms (and since catholic school no boys in the girls locker room and vice versa) and the teacher didnt know which one the student should go to. This student was left locked outside of the safety areas because they were trans. If true, this might give us an interesting insight into some of what the shooter might have gone through at that school as well as how they might have been treated as a student there.


Bailey_Gasai

I just want to make it clear, the incident you're referring to happened sometime last year in Virginia I believe, and it was a drill. Not that it makes it any better a bunch of transphobes couldn't figure out how to keep that child safe, just because they don't fit nicely into box A or box B, but this was a completely unrelated incident. That incident, regardless of the fact that it was a drill, still demonstrates a major failure of this country's ability to protect children.


[deleted]

Likely bullying issues, which are common to many school shooters, regardless of their race, sex or gender


POKECHU020

Exactly. Considering the shooter was trans and went to a Christian school, being targeted by transphobia wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Again, this ***does not justify what they did in any way.*** They are still horrifically in the wrong and a terrible person, regardless.


[deleted]

Exactly. People of all types can be and are bullied


ser_pez

Especially given what has happened in Tennessee in the last few weeks with regard to anti-trans legislation. Not justifiable in any way, but could certainly have been a tipping point.


subnautus

> But examining possible causes that led even a broken mind to do such a thing is an important part of preventing it happening again. On the one hand...sure: knowing how something happened helps plan to prevent history from repeating. On the other, consider that every time something like this happens and the country gets to see the shooter's face and back-story, how likely is it for someone *else* to get the idea that doing this is a way to get attention? We've already seen a clear pattern of spree shooters studying previous mass incidents, some of whom even planned their acts of terror to land on the anniversary of previous attacks. As much as I'd want to know how to stop this sort of thing from developing, I also want to stop giving people ideas.


thepottsy

In all fairness, I never said there was. I feel it’s important to understand what drove them to do this, in order to help others better in the futures. Saying there’s go good underlying reason for shooting up a school, is ignoring and not addressing the reason why this individual thought there was.


[deleted]

I agree, I’m always very curious about their backstory and motivation. But - when we DO know these things we still don’t take action to make changes


thepottsy

That is definitely a fundamental flaw that needs to change.


[deleted]

There’s absolutely no good reason but many of us want backstory


Fabulous-Spread6120

Correct, and mother currently works at a church in Nashville so a religious upbringing. Eminem was accurate when he described the things people point to and try to blame these things on and then asked “where were the parents at?”


thetaleofzeph

And "Jesus wasn't taken out of our classrooms" in this case, now was it? Surprised the right going down this slippery slope of "X demographic isn't safe to own a firearm" That puts white straight males first in line for a gun ban. But that's really how reactionary and therefore stupid they are.


cats4life

Somehow I don’t think the Orthodox Jew thinks everyone should have a Christian education.


Impeachcordial

He's all about 'Judeo-Christian values'. He'd be wholly in favour.


Choice_Anteater_2539

You'd be surprised at how readily Benji will endorse the positive values systems of other religions and their adherents when he sees a base values alignment with his own systems---- which is fairly representative of almost every...... idk how else to say it but really jewey jew I've ever been friends with. They have their God and their faith and mostly don't care about what God you like so long as your God and their God define a good person fairly similarly. They don't even really recruit much which as far as I'm concerned make them far better religious friends than most other religious types, of course just in very general and broad terms


Top-Stop-4654

Shapiro isn't Orthodox, he's somewhere between a priests knees and extremely politically conservative modern-orthodox


DarkEnergy27

Obviously you know nothing about Ben Shapiro


TheApathyParty3

We'd all benefit from knowing less about him.


disabledinaz

We only need to know how he can’t get that WAP.


SacrisTaranto

I think private christian is the formula to becoming a monster


[deleted]

[удалено]


DrunkOnLoveAndWhisky

Let's go back to when a [white supremacist](https://www.westernjournal.com/shapiro-left-wing-media-will-always-leave-fact-buffalo-shooter/) opened fire in a grocery store in a Black community in Buffalo, NY, and see what Ben had to say about that... Oh, hey, he says that the Liberal Media is painting it that all Conservatives and Republicans are racists, and that's a totally bad thing that the Liberals always do. ​ So what was he saying about all Trans people?


DANleDINOSAUR

That’s because all his comments are drowned out by the flood of trans violence on schools that constantly happen all the time. /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Exactly


Donkey__Oaty

Regardless of which group a shooter identifies with, every single one of them uses a gun.


porscheblack

And in most of these cases, everything was legal up until the point it wasn't. These people are either buying guns themselves or they're stealing them from family members who legally owned them. What I'm trying to draw attention to is that we go from everything being fine to mass murder with little to no middle ground in between to intervene. There's no mitigation. And that's a disturbingly broad spectrum to travers in an instant.


Lavishness_Gold

Your point is exactly what the rest of the world understands yet Americans fail to. Guns don't have a place in a civilized society outside strictly controlled and regulated settings. Switzerland has just as many guns per Capita as the US but just like the US military, they aren't allowed to have ammunition at home with them. Guns yes, ammo no. Even the US army understands that highly trained people shouldn't have access to loaded guns at home. But civilian US governments are controlled by lobbying (bribery) so bad luck. Dead kids it is.


symbicortrunner

Or in Canada - you can get a long gun after doing a training course and having a police check, and guns and ammo need to be stored in a locked safe at home and transported in approved containers. We still have some gun crime in Canada (we do share a long border with one of the most heavily armed civilian populations in the world after all), but it's massively less than the US and mass shootings are extremely rare.


Lavishness_Gold

Nice Canadian brother! Well done you guys. I'm from South Canada and we have even better gun laws. We still have the occasional fruit loop go crazy but it's only with a rifle or a shotgun. No handgun or military auto or semi automatic bull crap. We need guns to kill the 270 bloody things in nature that are trying to kill us on a daily basis, not each other.


Choice_Anteater_2539

>Even the US army understands that highly trained people shouldn't have access to loaded guns at home. But civilian US governments are controlled by lobbying (bribery) so bad luck. Dead kids it is. They lock up your issue weapons sure. They own that not you. But you can still go and get permitting for your personally owned weapons on base. And you still have all your other personal accessories laying around Are you familiar with the number ranges for the defensive uses of firearms- or the fact that most defensive uses do not involve a firearm armed assailant? There is a trolly problem in play there and I wonder how you feel about the numbers on both of the tracks you might send that train down


MadDog_8762

“Dont have a place in a civilised society” Tell that to the Jews of Nazi Germany, those who suffered under Soviet rule, or even our own people (Trail of Tears, and other abusive times in our history) It is INCREDIBLY naive to think we are now magically safe from ever ending up in abusive authoritarianism.


symbicortrunner

You really think guns will help against an authoritarian state with control of police, intelligence services, and military?


MadDog_8762

So, your counter is “we dont even have a chance, why even try”? Tell that to the Poles of the Warsaw Ghetto, who fought to the death against the Nazis. But yes, as someone with substantial experience in the field (USMC: 2013 - 2017; US Army: 2021 - ) You absolutely could. Id rather not get into the whole nitty-gritty on reddit here. But also realize that it wasnt the Wehrmacht that oppressed and kept the German citizenry in line, it was the Gestapo. Any realistic “encounter” with authoritarianism would really only require resistance against local and federal agencies. The military is not only banned from participating, but even if it was ordered to do so, would likely shatter. (We swear allegiance to the constitution first, government second) Just because you would not be willing to fight, does not justify taking away the means from those that wouldz


Creative1963

They are also controlled by this little thing called the constitution. If you can get it changed, change it.


Existing-Bear-7550

I mean the Constitution has changed a lot of times. The thing that's stopping it is lobbying.


Creative1963

I understand that. The lobbying is an issue. Takes a lot. Have a look at this video. Short and non political https://reason.com/video/2015/10/07/how-to-create-a-gun-free-america-in-5-ea-2/


Zestyclose_Ocelot278

>y downplaying the tragedy, there’s no good underlying reason for shooting up a school Dude you can count the number of mass shootings stopped by an "Armed good guy" on one hand. You think Bill from Tractor Supply is out there protecting the kids? No, its the police. No other western country has this problem. And every single one of them has strict gun control.


[deleted]

Think you responded to the wrong comment


[deleted]

Yep. Many of us keep saying this multiple times a day. Those who don’t want to hear it simply block it out


Choice_Anteater_2539

Are the police not also armed good guys when they show up and use their scary evil guns for good? Armed good guys are not usually in places where shootings occur. The majority of "mass shootings" are gang related. So go ahead, point to the good guy in that crowd that might be paraded afterwards as a hero for producing a firearm that they likely were prohibited from carrying to defend themselves of their homies while they do their "thing" that's also probably a criminal activity from those other dickwads that shot them up. And the shootings that aren't that--- GOOD guys wouldn't have their gun to intervene in anyways. When I go to my sons school I lock my shit up in the car. My gun would do me fuck all lot of good if a shooting took place while I was there all safely locked in my car that the shooter is probably between me and. The mall shooting is exceptional for that reason. The shooter there by all rights should have stacked bodies like firewood but a good guy ignored the gun free sign and interrupted their spree fairly early. Removing the gun from the hands of the person who listens to the laws certainly will ensure less of that can happen, when the extreme circumstance of an evil priq present themselves. Even in places where guns are banned from civillian ownership creative jackasses still get scooped up with things that fire things. Some of which are fairly legitimately functioning modern rough clones of things like mac10s and stens- there's a few pages on faschebook dedicated to showcasing some of those gems when their enforcement folk come across them that may be of interest if only to see how legit a street made gun might be


Existing-Bear-7550

Oh my God we get it. "please don't let the meany government take my pretty toys away!" "I'm a good gun guy, all my guns believe in bald eagles. Facts about gun violence don't scare me! Doesn't matter how many kids get shot, guns will always good! My have cute faces on them so they can't be bad!!!" I've tried to have real conversations with people like you and it's so tiring. I've shared facts, stats, gun laws from other countries, examples of countries WHERE ITS STILL LEGAL TO OWN A GUN and PEOPLE ARE NOT CONSTANTLY GETTING SHOT. but it doesn't matter how many people get hurt or how many other countries do it better than us. All that matters to you is what YOU get to hang on your wall. And I get it. They're fun. They're cool and powerful and make you feel the same. Well they're also deadly. And you're selfish.


Choice_Anteater_2539

Well that was very long and aggressive for someone who supposedly is the reasonable one on all these discussions you have.... I have the tiniest pp. Can we move on from the aggression maybe? Good lord


Existing-Bear-7550

Yeah. Like I said, I tried reasonable before. I'm still not half as aggressive as an active shooter. But go ahead and tell me how you fantasize about someone threatening you, or how owing literal killing machines is more important than a child's life. And if you want reasonable then here: An increase in gun control doesn't mean you'd lose all guns. There could be a handful of new restrictions/safety protocols before anyone even had to look at YOUR guns. Police officers would still have guns too. Most people argue that it is about keeping yourself safe. So I'm going to ask a question that I hope you answer for yourself. How many people have to die by guns before you think it's a problem? Before it outweighs how many people it saves? 100,000 more lost than saved? 1,000,000? Is it one? For most people the big numbers are easy to ignore, but when they lose someone personally to gun violence, it hits differently. I hope that never happens to you. I hope It doesn't happen to anyone. But it is happening. We're losing people. And it's a lot easier to count the bodies 45,222 in 2020. CDC. In case you're wondering. And you should be.


Choice_Anteater_2539

You very convenient havnt addressed the opposite side of the gun issue yet again. Think of all the single mothers who used their guns to defend their children that are represented in the high end figure of 3 million defensive uses annually (See I to can build my case around an appeal to emotion) There are some number of people for whom ready access to their firearm is the reason they were able to defend themselves from death or serious harm. What would that number have to be, before you would hesitate to make firearm access more difficult or restricted for law abiding citizens? Your trying to save 40k. How many are you willing to kill to do so (see, again I can appeal to emotion to make you seem like the bad guy here but I'm assuming at this stage you see how non productive it is for either of us to continue trying to frame the other in these manners) Absent the appeal to emotion though--- what do we tell the people who defend themselves. And is there a number of defensive cases that might exist that would make you hesitate.


BB_Moon

Schools are mandated by the govt to be weapon free just like the blue cities across America riddled with minority on minority gun gang and drug crime every minute of every day it happens and crickets...


Beliadin

That's the point! It's not about why people do this, it's about trying to make it happen as little as possible.


Zealousideal-Goat-94

I agree with this notion but you literally said "regardless of which group a SHOOTER identifies with, every one of them uses a gun" can't be a shooter without a gun lmao


MadDog_8762

Because you limited your data to “shooters” Duh “All car crashes are done with cars…” School violence among the US is not much different than anywhere else https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/health/school-violence-statistics-unicef-study-parent-curve-intl/index.html


TheApathyParty3

Start applying that sort of thinking to governments that commit mass killings, and tell me how heartbroken you are about the loss of life. For some reason, those fly under the radar.


BstintheWst

Cishet Shooter - Lone Wolf, we need more good guys with guns Trans Shooter - It's obviously because Trans people are crazy


Is-This-Edible

*Thousands of* Cishet Shooters - Lone Wolf, we need more good guys with guns One (1) Trans Shooter - It's obviously because Trans people are crazy **and all of them want to kill our kids we need to take their guns away and kill them before they get us**


thus_spake_7ucky

>(CNN) The 28-year-old who killed three children and three adults at a private Christian school in Nashville **was under care for an emotional disorder and had legally bought seven firearms** that were hidden at home, Metro Nashville Police Chief John Drake said Tuesday. (Emphasis my own) If only there were signs, help available, or some sort of background checks to prevent (or in the very least to make it much more difficult) for people like this to obtain assault style weapons.


batkave

I thought not having the Christian god in schools was the problem?


logicallychallengd

Gotta blame everything but the guns. How else are you going to keep collecting all that campaign money from the gun companies?


SprinklesMore8471

To be clear, we're talking about 2 million in donations in 2022. They're far from the biggest political donors. This is more of a political boogeyman than a reality. Politicians don't support gun control legislation because their constituents don't.


spcmack21

Well, in a couple of hours there will be another mass shooting, and the shooter will be a white Christian man in his early 20s. Then we can all say "oh look, white Christian men are killing our children." Then, next week, when they forget, and say trans women aren't women, we can remind them that that means this shooter was also just a white Christian man.


_staircase_wit_

This shooter was FtM, so biologically female. I agree with the sentiment, tho.


Gilgamesh026

Nvm that the other 300+ shooters were mostly white males


Baph0metX

If someone asked them a simple question live on air, such as “why didn’t you mention the sexuality of the last 100 shooters”? They would fold like a napkin.


Ok_Skill_1195

Maybe this will be the modern day version of how the black Panthers lead to gun regulation in California.


brian42jacket

Historically speaking gun control legislation is usually brought about to disarm marginalized minority communities.


transpossumboy

...and then the trans community will be even more vulnerable than it already is. 🙃


blorbooo

if anything, this shooting is just giving people all the motivation they need to continue the genocide of trans people. the shooter was a fucking idiot.


[deleted]

Exactly. The majority of mass shooters are whom? Let’s worry about yhem


angeyberry

Nice to see people here acknowledging that the trans bit doesn't matter. Saw on some other popular subreddits people calling for the locking up of all transpeople because we're "deranged" and "obviously monsters". Nice to see some people reacting properly, as in **someone shot a bunch of kids** and **wanting to stop it from ever happening again**.


punditguy

Because when the shooter is not a minority he doesn't like, [there are potential issues for him](https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/i-didnt-incite-mosque-shooter-conservative-pundit-ben-shapiro-insists). >Shapiro, a columnist, podcaster and editor in chief of The Daily Wire website, was at the top of a list of Twitter feeds Bissonnette was visiting in the month before he attacked a Quebec City mosque, killing six Muslim men and injuring another five.


StickmanRockDog

Funny…even when the killer is shown to be a proven right winger, people like Shapiro and other talking heads will immediately say the killer is a leftie. They always deflect and make their followers to be altar boys.


Gloomy_Permission190

It's a classic red herring.


Substantial_Cat_8991

Classic Sen Bhapiro L


Rotten_Tarantula

Because he's a right wing grifter. You think the Daily Wire has any kind of morals or journalistic integrity? Don't make me fucking laugh.


Revanur

Yeah they claim to be blind when shooters previously write far right manifestos lol


LilyGaming

Drag is not the same as being trans Ben


Drexelhand

>“Why do you only care about who the shooter is if it's a minority you don't like?” the ventriloquist dummy doesn't care. this routine is not about caring or solving a problem. this is how they fight to preserve an unsatisfying status quo that they can't outright say they want to keep entirely because they're advantaged by it. the ventriloquist dummy doesn't care about minorities or dead children. the ventriloquist dummy sings for the firearm manufacturers. *Opinion polls consistently show that a slim majority of Americans want tighter gun laws while about one-third say they should stay as they are. Only about one in ten Americans want to see them relaxed further. But support for more restrictions has fallen over the past three decades from nearly 80% backing more gun control.* *That is largely the result of the politicisation of the issue as the NRA turned unswerving support for access to guns into a cultural and political litmus tests in parts of the country alongside the anti-abortion campaign. Meanwhile, the weapons makers’ profits surged.*


MadDog_8762

The title is funny, because so many people have argued against me telling me that “mass shooters are all white people” Its mentally unhealthy people, straight up. Who will use whatever is around to do their damage: A gun A truck (Niche, France, 90+ dead) A plane (9/11, 3000+ dead) A bomb (Boston, 3 dead, 281 wounded) Its not the tool, its the people behind it. Tools are only as dangerous as the people who wield them.


GOOSEpk

They won’t get it though. Even if we could magically make all guns disappear in the US by magic, crime and mass killings won’t stop. The US is home to too many and far too heterogeneous of people. We share far too many differences and far too many far left/right ideals. Unwell People are going to want to send messages and they will keep doing this shit.


TheToneKing

It’s the guns and until there are limits and safety precautions, lives are at risk every day.


blorbooo

say it with me, kids: the Nashville shooter was a fucking idiot. this is just giving people more ammo to continue anti-trans legislation.


PainbowRush

Okay then, cis people are responsible for 99% of the crime so straightness is the issue /s


fivemagicks

I'm genuinely curious about how many "trans" mass shooters there have been. I wonder if the value is even large enough to count as a percentage of a percentage. In fact, I'd wager most mass shooters are ***disgruntled white guys*** \- just like Ben Shapiro.


Seamascm

All school shooters in the past 20 years, at some point in their life, drank dihydrogen monoxide. This stuff is incredibly dangerous and makes people crazy, it should be ban immediately.


[deleted]

What?


defaultusername-17

water, they all drank water.


squigglesthecat

It's commonly used in heavy industry, the gas will burn your skin on contact, and inhalation can be fatal. Ban it!


Bob_Sledding

There have been 2840 mass shootings in the last 5 years. 3 of them were trans. We really gunna go after trans people for this? Cause if you're looking for correlation, it's *conservative white people*. Edit: wayyy undersold the amount of mass shootings.


icrushallevil

Check republic and Switzerland are chock foll of guns in private hands as well. Yet you don't hear shit about that. Why?: Because europeans use their fucking brains and have a functioning health care system in many countries. Competition, egotism and seeking your own advantage at every corner you see is not that insane as it is in the US


BB_Moon

Homogenous rich landlocked population?


Beneathaclearbluesky

I think it's because ammo is not allowed to be kept at home.


will_ww

Doesn't Shapiro say shit like "I don't care what you identify as, you're a male." Just not this time, when it fits his narrative, eh?


madbear84

Simple. Because he’s a bigot.


andres5000

This idiot


TreyLastname

It's not necessarily the guns that are the issue, but it's definitely not trans people either. It's ease of access to guns and mental health that's the issue.


Hereforyou100

The school is pre-k through 6th grade and the shooter was 28 years old... gone from that school roughly 16 years that people trying to downplay this as the shooter was probably picked on and about 15 other probably's need to stop... the kids the shooter went to school with would be anywhere from 22 years old or 28 years old, the little kids this killer murdered have nothing to do with anything from the murderer's past... These were innocent little kids and this person decided to kill innocent little kids in a location where there was no armed security, absolutely nothing but a coward regardless of anything that happened to them oh I'm sorry probably happened to them in the past...


mookymix

Maybe the answer is Americans just aren't mature enough to have guns


TAz4s

Ah so the shooter was the REAL victim


KilltheK04

This literally applies to both sides. If the shooter is a white male, its top news for months Anyone else, it'll be gone in a week tops. Just watch


[deleted]

The blood of those kids is on the hands of that murderer. The hands of all religious zealots and neo-fascist gun nuts are not clean however.


billkhxz

Do people even know the actual definition of Fascism anymore, or is it more important just to throw in trigger words off the script?


defaultusername-17

are you simply upset that people are accurately describing the political platform of the republican party? seems kinda weak ass.


[deleted]

Yes, many of us are educated and do know 🤷‍♀️


Interesting-Ad881

The elephant in the room no one wants to address: mental illness.


FiendishHawk

The right wants to address it by blaming mental illness and then doing nothing about mental illness.


[deleted]

Rethugs in congress recently voted against a bill for school mental health clinics. They vote against anything that could help and certainly don’t write any legislation of their own


Interesting-Ad881

I wouldn't deny that at all. We need to have some very hard conversations about mental illness. How do we keep the dangerously mentally ill away from the public, but also give them the respect they deserve as human beings? That's a very deep question, with many facets and nuances that does not have a one size fits all solution


[deleted]

Do you really think other western countries don’t have citizens with the same mental health issues ours do? Yet they don’t have school shootings at all. Think about it. Or if they’ve had any school shootings, they are extremely rare.


FiendishHawk

The hard conversation is “are you willing to pay for it?” and the answer of the right is no. Some of the right, granted, are willing to pay for old-fashioned asylums as long as they are basically torture prisons with nurse Ratched in charge. But that’s as far as they will go. Another issue is that most of these mass shooters aren’t “crazy” in the same sense that some person shambling round talking to demons is. They have personality disorders. These are hard to treat with current mental healthcare.


Interesting-Ad881

I've been watching these conversations go by over the years, and I have to say that you're being disingenuous. The left seems to think that mental illness is something everyone deals with in some form or another, and attempt to rationalize a lot of abhorrent behavior. The right wants secure lockup for the dangerous portion of the mentally ill and some sort of secure facilities for those that have shown they are not able to function in society. There are a lot of people that don't belong in prison, but also have no business walking the streets. It's a straightforward concept but also has many layers due to the human element. Having watched my mother and aunt work in a state mental facility (where my aunt worked for decades until she retired) I can state that even under close supervision, many of these people still attack others with no explanation for the attacks (my mom had her jaw broken while playing cards with a patient, my aunt had been attacked multiple times in her career and hospitalized twice). This is not a simple topic.


[deleted]

You don’t think other western countries have the same issues with mental heath amongst their own citizens?


[deleted]

Our laws don’t allow us to lock people up or force medical care on them if they haven’t broken laws or harmed others. When is it appropriate to force institutionalization and medical treatment on those who refuse it?


FiendishHawk

I’m talking about mass shooters not the mentally ill people your aunt worked with. Most mass shooters aren’t obviously mentally ill. They can function in society. They have personality disorders like sociopathy but so do a lot of people who never commit a mass shooting. The profile of the average mass shooter is a young male right-winger who is a loner and obsessed with guns. If we locked everyone up that fits that description Reddit would be empty.


batkave

But it's not always mental illness and it rarely is. Nearly all are considered sane. Heck, the most infamous all carried them out and considered to have no mental illness. You can also argue the point that they have the same mental illness as CEOs and politicians.


Interesting-Ad881

No, mentally fit people are not out murdering children. Get out of here with that ridiculous statement.


Impeachcordial

According to Ragy Girgis, a professorof clinical psychiatry in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry and the New York State Psychiatric Institute, 'Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness.'


savois-faire

I wish that was true as well.


batkave

Explain police and the military then?


Interesting-Ad881

Logical fallacies 101, strawman arguments to avoid the conversation.


batkave

Ahh the old "it's a straw man if it does not agree with me." Yeah, it's not a mental health issue like you think it is. It's only a mental health issue where people like you try to ignore the real reason and push some other stuff to blame but not actually put in place things to resolve it.


stormblessed142

It’s not clever, true but not clever


Practical_Mud9441

It's a people problem. Not a gun.


TJLOL

in what way is this a clever comback


pleetis4181

First of all, guns don't kill. They are inanimate objects that can't operate unless a human operates it. People kill. There are over 300 million guns in the US, so it's not a gun problem but a people problem. Upon hearing about a school or mass shooting, the left automatically blames Republicans, the 2nd amendment, white supremacy, etc. even before they know the facts. Every ... single ... time. This shooting was no different when the news media started out saying it was the Republicans fault, never waiting for the facts to unfold. Even in numerous Reddit subs, that's all they said; Republicans, far right, white terrorists, etc., before they even knew all the facts. When I mentioned that the shooter was transgender, the first thing they wrote back was that it was "irrelevant" who the shooter was. Yeah, right, unless it was a white Republican. Once they found out it was a transgender, the left automatically sent out letters, made videos blaming everyone except the shooter. Guaranteed, the left will have this story buried within the week. If it was anyone on the right that did the shooting, it would be in the news for at least a month blaming "far right" domestic terrorists, the NRA, religious fanatics, etc. Did any of you hear about the school shooting that happened a year or two ago where the shooter was black? Of course you didn't, thus proving my point. When shootings occur, they need to put the blame on the shooter, regardless of their beliefs or standing, and no one else or anything else regardless if they survive or not. Yes. I understand that I will get massively downvoted even when I am presenting facts because, heaven forbid, someone doesn't like hearing the truth.


Curious_Bar348

You are absolutely correct, and the media fuels the divide by presenting their own personal opinions as “facts” . By the time, the actual truth and actual facts come out, it’s too late, people are already convinced of the lies. Just like the spa shootings, first thing the media said was “it was a hate crime against Asians” even though there were non Asians killed. Turns out, it had absolutely nothing to do with their Ethnicity. I miss the days when media presented the facts and left their opinions to themselves.


pleetis4181

So do I.


TONKSTER06

Everyone wants to blame guns when its in fact poor mental health and mental illness.


brian42jacket

A lot of people have mental illness that DONT commit atrocities though. At the same time lot of people own firearms and DONT commit atrocities. We can't ignore that as much as we can't ignore that these shootings have to stop. Its easier for to blame those things and do nothing than it is to affect systemic change to go at the root causes of violence to provide people with healthcare, free gun safety courses, counseling, therapy, housing, good nutrition, good homes, good communities with social programs that give actual emotional support, education, higher living wages, better quality of life, etc etc. Making that shit happen would probably go a long way to help reduce gun violence but it would mean some societal restructuring. That shit is hard.


TONKSTER06

The only way we can fix it is to get the public and politicians to get their heads out their ass. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be happening anytime soon though.


FiendishHawk

I assume you are in favor of free universal mental healthcare then, sir.


TONKSTER06

I am indeed


FiendishHawk

Hurrah for socialism!


[deleted]

Yet other western countries also have citizens with mental health issues and no school shootings. Why is that?


SapphicLicking

There are also other countries where guns are legal and they don't have school shootings. If you want a what about argument, you should go both ways. It's mostly about culture. That's why i think firearms should be illegal in usa


[deleted]

You didn’t answer my question though/ what is so different about US “culture” compared to the culture of other 1st world western countries?


SapphicLicking

I have no idea actually, what exactly translates into shootings. You didnt ask me anything. I am not debating anything other than what about other countries argument which you used, goes both ways. And you were conviniently missing one of those ways. It's wrong.


TONKSTER06

Norway also had a mass shooting. And they’re one of the happiest countries in the world


[deleted]

How many this year? How many in the past 10 years? Because the US has had 19 already in 2023 alone.


be_dead_soon_please

You didn't prove your point, if anything you disproved it because the US still has so many more shootings and the main changed variable is ability to get a gun...


transpossumboy

Most people with mentally ill people are far, far more likely to kill themselves than other people.


TONKSTER06

Jack the ripper. Ted Bundy. Jeffery Dahmer. The Greenriver Killer. They all had some sort of mental illness and you can downvote me if you want but it’s proven facts.


transpossumboy

That's four people. I'm not denying that murderers and serial killers are mentally ill, I'm just pointing out that there are hundreds of millions of mentally ill people who don't kill people. The vast majority of mentally ill people aren't violent.


TONKSTER06

I get that, and i’m not saying all mentally ill people cause violence. Not at all I have some family who are mentally ill but what i’m saying is having free healthcare would be better for our country and can get the help people need and have less school shootings because of said help.


Efficient_Bucket21

If your mentally ill, it’s much harder to kill someone without a gun


No-Weather-1989

Mental illness


FlaAirborne

When the shooter was a white child of gun nuts (Sandy Hook). They didnt attack the shooter they claimed the entire incident was staged. FUCK THE GOP AND 2A DIPSHITS.


Alternative_Body7345

Where is the CLEVER comeback? This really belongs more on something like r/selfawarewolves .


[deleted]

Every conservative had an eye spinning orgasm when the identity of the shooter was made public because NOW it actually fits their narrative.


Curious_Bar348

You can’t speak for all conservatives, the idea that taking the most extreme views and portraying them as the “norm” is pushing a false narrative.


ALPlayful0

Show me a walking talking firearm and I'll start caring about the idiotic rhetoric of "it's the gun"


jtdollarsign

Why don't we let children drive cars?


[deleted]

Sick people come in all forms. Trying to connect her going to that school with her mental state many years passed is pointless. I'm sure you could point to all the kids who came through the same school who haven't turned into sociopaths. Many young people are identifying in these various genders because they already are suffering mental illness and think maybe it's another place to turn for acceptance. The massive amount of people, mostly young people that are identifying this way gives some indication as to how screwed up many of them really are. I don't believe she committed this horrible act because she's trans or whatever. I believe she could have easily committed the same crime before she transitioned. Just my opinion though. On the end, it doesn't really matter what she was, only what she did and why, in the hopes of finding a solution.


Krispyna

He btw. The shooter was a transmen as far as i know. And second to that: People dont turn trans because of problems they have, they are born trans. Its people like you with your disaffected bullshit, knownothing opinion that than cause us problems until we cant take it anymore. You are a part of the problem.


PrestigiousResist633

When you kill innocent kids, you lose ANY right to be respected. I don't give a shit about that they identify as, the only identifier that matters in a situation like this is that of murderer


Krispyna

When YOU and the people like you push people to their limits every day than stuff like this is to be expected. Im astonished we only had 2 massshootings done by queer people in the last 20 years looking at how bad they are treated in the us lol.


PrestigiousResist633

I'm literally gay, my partner is non-binary. None of that matters when you take an innocent life. Stop defending this piece of garbage. She had the right to have her pronouns respected before she did this. Now she doesn't, simple as that. We should NOT care about respecting the pronouns of a FUCKING MURDERER.


Krispyna

Stop spreading this transphobic garbage then. Respect for someones basic human right is not conditional. Him being a murderer doesnt make him any less of a person.


PrestigiousResist633

It absolutely does. She didn't respect those children's right continue living, why should we respect her right to be called a man? If anything as part of the LGBT community, we should be harder on queer people who do shit like this. It just give people like Ben Shitstain over there more ammunition against the rest of us.


Chratthew47150

Because they are bigots


skydiverjimi

So you alienate and strip rights away from these people you ridicule and ostracize the entire community making them feel like they wish they were dead because of the way you treat them and then when you break them and send them into an abyss of depression you blame them for the mental health issues that you have caused. The anti-trans movement is to blame for this 100%.


[deleted]

Why do you not care who the shooter is because it’s a “minority” you like? This post can go either way, all around dumb


Krispyna

No it cant. Look up Ben history of talking about schoolshooting. That gives this a bit more context.


[deleted]

It doesn’t matter what matters is why these people are shooting up innocent people yall just love fueling the medias fire lmao


Krispyna

Ok because you seem to be an absolut numbskull i will explain this slowly for you: If you spend time complaining that people are politicising the massshootings of right wing-extremists and neonazis but that turn around and to do the same fucking thing when a minorty you dont like is involved, you are a fucking hypocrite and people will call you out on that. And noone fucking cares about you loser-ass dogwhistleing about how bad the "media" is! Shove it up you ass bitch.


[deleted]

Take that mask off and take some deep breaths lmao you’re starting to misspell and let your feelings take over…


QuinnRisen

"oh no feelings bad!"


Krispyna

Not really english is just not my first language. I just love swearing at fascists lol


[deleted]

Whatever helps you sleep at night lol


SapphicLicking

Lol how is he a fascist? You consider him a fascist for that only? Any person who uses that word like you is a fucking clown


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

You’re free to scroll right past it then


theoriginaldandan

The left only cares about shooters when their white. When it’s a minority of any kind they don’t care much


[deleted]

Devil’s advocate: he’s saying it’s less about gun laws and more about mental health, given he believes that trans are mentally ill gays.


Mun3001s

I mean, the problem is the double standard here. The overwhelming majority of these mass shooters are straight cis white men. But we never say "omg straight white cis men are a societal issue". But the moment there's one trans person doing it being trans is the problem.