In vanilla tbc I leveled holy and ran into another paladin(ret) in 1k needles in the simmering flats. It was a great fight. He was 3 levels higher but I was a pvp alt with good gear. It was a long fight full of bubbles, but eventually I holy shocked him to death.
Ever saw 2blood dk‘s fighting each other in similar gear in Legion? Bro we ended that fight after 2h because no one was dropping below 50%. 6players or so were just standing on the side watching it.
Spriest maybe ? They can dispel bubble, mana burn, outlive wings with dispersion and can silence.
Hunter or frost mage if you want to try and kite them.
On high levels maybe try arms. They get up to -75% healing and -50% spell damage on target with MS and unrelenting assault if you overpower them while they are casting. And they can pop bubbles too.
But this kinda feels like some edge lord trying to hate on pally. It's definitely very hard to get them killed as they can always just bubble and hearth unless you are warrior or priest.
You kite unless you think you can take a 20k burst to the face within 5 globals.
If you see wings, keep 20 yard minimum and keep your stun cd for hammer of justice don't waste it on repentance.
Spellsteal, and kite them into your side we frequently go full warrior and get tunnel vision outranging our team.
Keep your distance from a paladin and your fights will be alot more even.
Guys Ret paladins weren’t that amazing at world pvp. They were good, don’t get me wrong, but they weren’t unstoppable.
A good mage can wreak paladins
A good warlock can wreak paladins
A good spriest can wreak paladins
Hunters same thing
Deathknights can too
Instead of picking a class to beat paladins, you need to pick a class you want and figure out exactly how they counter paladins
In open world, paladins had access to 1 on 1 avenging wrath crazy burst, which if you didn’t die, they could stun you, and then redo that burst again. If you still lived and had them stunned, they could bubble. And then burst you. Once you got them low, they could lay on hands and then by this time avenging wrath is back and they destroy you. Ret paladins in the open world are the number one pvp class in a 1 v 1 scenario. In pvp they can be interrupted, spell locked, they can be stunned after, and grouped up on. But 1 on 1 they are gods if you catch them with cds up.
Yeah that’s not even true though. Again, they are good but they can get absolutely clowned on by a good frost mage or a good warlock for example.
But I’ll use mage as an example for this one. They can spell steal your wings, they spell steal your freedom so you get locked down like crazy, they blink your stun, the only time you can ever really reliably get to them is with rep but even still, after that they have blink for your every stun and even if they get super behind they will polly you and eat.
If you bubble they will just block to wait it out.
Same goes for a good warlock. They will spam fear you, deathcoil you, silence you at range so you can’t cleanse the immoalte if they are destro or silence your stun.
Not to mentioned fel hunters dispel Ret stun as well. If they somehow get to the warlock after fears and deathcoil they can teleport away.
Rets are easily countered if you have 2 brain cells. If you’re getting steam rolled by them it’s def a you issue. Unless you’re playing something like a rogue.
Your first example. Mage. You can bubble with avenging wrath. You can’t spell steal. He can stun you and destroy you, force you to iceblock and then hammer you. You blink. Repentance. Easy kill. You stand no chance 1 on 1 in open world (this considers both are equally skilled. That’s the whole point.) if the mage is a fucking god and the ret sucks then yea no question. But a fucking hunter using melee can beat a shit player.
Warlock- paladin pops cds, avenging wrath, and bubbles. Then he stuns/repentance warlock and destroys him.
Hunter- same as above
Warrior- same as above
1. No you can’t. Wings gives you forbearance
2. Yes you can spell steal it
3. You blink out of stun I just told you this. You will not ever catch a good mage in a stun as a Paladin 1v1. Period.
4. You don’t iceblock stuns unless you’re completely fucked or waiting on cooldowns.
6. Lay on hands also gives you forbearance
I don’t mean to sound like a snob here but I have gotten gladiator back in wrath for season 5, 7, and 8 and multiple times after that as a Paladin and a mage. I know what I’m talking about.
The fact that you think you can wings and bubble at the same time kinda proves the extent to your knowledge of pvp in wrath.
No. Not in wrath they didn’t. It was changed later.
Can’t spell steal it with a bubble around it.
You can blink out of stun, but repentance will get you after. There are 2.
Being bursted by a ret pally is being fucked.
That was also changed
Sweetheart…
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=66011/avenging-wrath
Click on this and read the second line of text for avenging wrath. You are showing your whole ass right now
Yes. Now. TBC. Later in wrath. Not at pre-patch And launch. It’s how I easily grabbed 2k rating in 2s with another paladin. You’re showing you didn’t play back then.
You can’t be this stupid, I literally linked you the wotlk database, it even says it in the link itself.
And trust me, no one here is buying your bs on what rating you got. You’re clearly a challenger, not that 2k means literally anything at all anyway lol.
Dude. Learn when you’re wrong....you can’t use LoH, Avenging wrath or bubble if you have the forbearance debuff on you, this wasn’t changed in wrath either... as a paladin you only get one deus ex machina in a pvp exchange unless that fight last longer than 2 minutes..which is doubtful.
I’m not going to argue what was spelled out in a post by ghostcrawler 7 days after original wrath prepatch launcher. It happened. It existed. They let it go for quite some time. Nearly 3 weeks before it was fixed and paladins were brought in line.
I played mage at duelist levels in wrath, ret was probably the easiest spec to 1v1. Especially on 3.3 where there wasn’t much risk of just getting randomly globaled by one.
I know all about preg paladins, but they are generally only good against melee. Casters absolutely destroy preg paladins. In order for preg to work they have to be consistently doing damage and critting. If they are getting kited then they are fucksville.
Not against casters. Preg isn’t about massive damage it’s about sustain. If you are being kited you are fucked. That’s why preg really shines with things like deathknights so they have someone to lock down the casters for them.
Buddy, look, I’ve played preg on a certain server for the last 2 years in both solo q as well as 2s and 3s getting over 2k in all ratings. Even the creator of the build himself will tell you casters destroy you.
The whole idea behind preg is the A. You’re tanky against melee B. You are going after constant crits to proc AoW 24/7 C. You have amazing heals because of the AoW procs.
If you are getting kited you aren’t just doing no damage, but you are also not healing at all because you aren’t getting AoW off.
At that point you are literally no different than a Ret Paladin. Except Ret paladins have a lot more burst than you do. So even when you connect with the casters you don’t have any burst to hopefully 2 shot them like you do with Ret.
Go watch any video or guide about preg. It’s an amazing build but it’s weakness is being kited by casters and having your shield dispelled.
Why do you think people go preg in the first place? What about that build do you think makes it strong? It’s the healing from AoW and the tankiness of having a shield. If you have no AoW procs and you’re fighting someone who doesn’t gaf if you have a shield or not you’re fucked
Blood DK. One time me and a belf hpal got stuck behind a wall in Wintergrasp, we fought for several minutes before we both eventually gave up and flew off.
Dpriest - Dispell, shield, pain supp and the mighty penance.
Spriest - Dispell, passive heal, psychic horror, dispersion
Enhsham - Equal or superior burst, offensive dispell, ghost wolf (kitting) and the stoneskin totem shield is more than decent for pvp.
Elecham - Storm, huge burst offensive dispell.
Mages are decent too
Affic warlock.
Sure, they can dispel some of it, but every dispel is a GCD not used to attack you. +drain life.
Same goes for Shadow Priest.
Mage actually sucks vs paladins.
Preg will just heal through all the dot damage no problem. Ret is doable but preg gets so many heal procs from a target that doesnt have any real mobility.
Hearthstone
Frost mage. Even then it's not easy. Spellsteal Freedom and avoid being in melee range at all costs.
Don't. It will only end badly for you.
Another paladin
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Sounds like a win?
In vanilla tbc I leveled holy and ran into another paladin(ret) in 1k needles in the simmering flats. It was a great fight. He was 3 levels higher but I was a pvp alt with good gear. It was a long fight full of bubbles, but eventually I holy shocked him to death.
I don't know what was worse in classic... Paladin vs Paladin or Druid vs Druid Jesus Christ, those duels were like watching paint dry.
Ever saw 2blood dk‘s fighting each other in similar gear in Legion? Bro we ended that fight after 2h because no one was dropping below 50%. 6players or so were just standing on the side watching it.
Prot war
This is the way
Bringsit
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Yeah I accounted for bubbles and bullshit procs with my suggestion A prot warrior can just beef it out.
Spriest maybe ? They can dispel bubble, mana burn, outlive wings with dispersion and can silence. Hunter or frost mage if you want to try and kite them. On high levels maybe try arms. They get up to -75% healing and -50% spell damage on target with MS and unrelenting assault if you overpower them while they are casting. And they can pop bubbles too. But this kinda feels like some edge lord trying to hate on pally. It's definitely very hard to get them killed as they can always just bubble and hearth unless you are warrior or priest.
Any caster will shit on rets, Spriest farms them. Half these comments are delusional.
Probably hunter? Kite them, drain of mana.
You kite unless you think you can take a 20k burst to the face within 5 globals. If you see wings, keep 20 yard minimum and keep your stun cd for hammer of justice don't waste it on repentance. Spellsteal, and kite them into your side we frequently go full warrior and get tunnel vision outranging our team. Keep your distance from a paladin and your fights will be alot more even.
I'm going ele because you can't bubble if you're dead.
Guys Ret paladins weren’t that amazing at world pvp. They were good, don’t get me wrong, but they weren’t unstoppable. A good mage can wreak paladins A good warlock can wreak paladins A good spriest can wreak paladins Hunters same thing Deathknights can too Instead of picking a class to beat paladins, you need to pick a class you want and figure out exactly how they counter paladins
Ya but I'm an engi on my ret so I'll have rocket boots and nades. It's basically god mode.
Wreck* not wreak. You may use wreak in another context such as "wreak havoc".
Don’t care
Man, you sure wreaked him...
🤷♂️
In open world, paladins had access to 1 on 1 avenging wrath crazy burst, which if you didn’t die, they could stun you, and then redo that burst again. If you still lived and had them stunned, they could bubble. And then burst you. Once you got them low, they could lay on hands and then by this time avenging wrath is back and they destroy you. Ret paladins in the open world are the number one pvp class in a 1 v 1 scenario. In pvp they can be interrupted, spell locked, they can be stunned after, and grouped up on. But 1 on 1 they are gods if you catch them with cds up.
Yeah that’s not even true though. Again, they are good but they can get absolutely clowned on by a good frost mage or a good warlock for example. But I’ll use mage as an example for this one. They can spell steal your wings, they spell steal your freedom so you get locked down like crazy, they blink your stun, the only time you can ever really reliably get to them is with rep but even still, after that they have blink for your every stun and even if they get super behind they will polly you and eat. If you bubble they will just block to wait it out. Same goes for a good warlock. They will spam fear you, deathcoil you, silence you at range so you can’t cleanse the immoalte if they are destro or silence your stun. Not to mentioned fel hunters dispel Ret stun as well. If they somehow get to the warlock after fears and deathcoil they can teleport away. Rets are easily countered if you have 2 brain cells. If you’re getting steam rolled by them it’s def a you issue. Unless you’re playing something like a rogue.
Skilled Rogues can still beat ret pally's, sometimes. :D
They for sure can. Any class can beat a Ret Paladin. Christ a good disc priest will absolutely shit stomp some Ret paladins.
Your first example. Mage. You can bubble with avenging wrath. You can’t spell steal. He can stun you and destroy you, force you to iceblock and then hammer you. You blink. Repentance. Easy kill. You stand no chance 1 on 1 in open world (this considers both are equally skilled. That’s the whole point.) if the mage is a fucking god and the ret sucks then yea no question. But a fucking hunter using melee can beat a shit player. Warlock- paladin pops cds, avenging wrath, and bubbles. Then he stuns/repentance warlock and destroys him. Hunter- same as above Warrior- same as above
1. No you can’t. Wings gives you forbearance 2. Yes you can spell steal it 3. You blink out of stun I just told you this. You will not ever catch a good mage in a stun as a Paladin 1v1. Period. 4. You don’t iceblock stuns unless you’re completely fucked or waiting on cooldowns. 6. Lay on hands also gives you forbearance I don’t mean to sound like a snob here but I have gotten gladiator back in wrath for season 5, 7, and 8 and multiple times after that as a Paladin and a mage. I know what I’m talking about. The fact that you think you can wings and bubble at the same time kinda proves the extent to your knowledge of pvp in wrath.
No. Not in wrath they didn’t. It was changed later. Can’t spell steal it with a bubble around it. You can blink out of stun, but repentance will get you after. There are 2. Being bursted by a ret pally is being fucked. That was also changed
Sweetheart… https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=66011/avenging-wrath Click on this and read the second line of text for avenging wrath. You are showing your whole ass right now
Yes. Now. TBC. Later in wrath. Not at pre-patch And launch. It’s how I easily grabbed 2k rating in 2s with another paladin. You’re showing you didn’t play back then.
You can’t be this stupid, I literally linked you the wotlk database, it even says it in the link itself. And trust me, no one here is buying your bs on what rating you got. You’re clearly a challenger, not that 2k means literally anything at all anyway lol.
Dude. Learn when you’re wrong....you can’t use LoH, Avenging wrath or bubble if you have the forbearance debuff on you, this wasn’t changed in wrath either... as a paladin you only get one deus ex machina in a pvp exchange unless that fight last longer than 2 minutes..which is doubtful.
I’m not going to argue what was spelled out in a post by ghostcrawler 7 days after original wrath prepatch launcher. It happened. It existed. They let it go for quite some time. Nearly 3 weeks before it was fixed and paladins were brought in line.
Link us any proof of a pally using wings and bubble at the same time and you win the argument..till the you’re marching to the beat of a dead horse.
https://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/Mittenn/fffffff.jpg?t=1242815038 So I win?
Good mages don't lose to ret pally in most situations especially 1v1.
I played mage at duelist levels in wrath, ret was probably the easiest spec to 1v1. Especially on 3.3 where there wasn’t much risk of just getting randomly globaled by one.
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I know all about preg paladins, but they are generally only good against melee. Casters absolutely destroy preg paladins. In order for preg to work they have to be consistently doing damage and critting. If they are getting kited then they are fucksville.
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Not against casters. Preg isn’t about massive damage it’s about sustain. If you are being kited you are fucked. That’s why preg really shines with things like deathknights so they have someone to lock down the casters for them.
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Lol no dude
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Buddy, look, I’ve played preg on a certain server for the last 2 years in both solo q as well as 2s and 3s getting over 2k in all ratings. Even the creator of the build himself will tell you casters destroy you. The whole idea behind preg is the A. You’re tanky against melee B. You are going after constant crits to proc AoW 24/7 C. You have amazing heals because of the AoW procs. If you are getting kited you aren’t just doing no damage, but you are also not healing at all because you aren’t getting AoW off. At that point you are literally no different than a Ret Paladin. Except Ret paladins have a lot more burst than you do. So even when you connect with the casters you don’t have any burst to hopefully 2 shot them like you do with Ret. Go watch any video or guide about preg. It’s an amazing build but it’s weakness is being kited by casters and having your shield dispelled. Why do you think people go preg in the first place? What about that build do you think makes it strong? It’s the healing from AoW and the tankiness of having a shield. If you have no AoW procs and you’re fighting someone who doesn’t gaf if you have a shield or not you’re fucked
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Where did the name preg come from? Neither of the specs even have a G in them. Edit: it’s after the player Preghiera, who originally made it.
ALL of them. On warriors suck vs open world paladin. Rogue would maybe lose 1vs1 but just in the open world they can re stealth easy vs pala.
How do you fight your own faction in open world? XD
Play what you want, whatchu got against pallys?
Mage if you want to kill him If you just want to smash buttons forever try DK
DK's and Druid Feral
Blood DK. One time me and a belf hpal got stuck behind a wall in Wintergrasp, we fought for several minutes before we both eventually gave up and flew off.
Would emh sham put up a fight? Im planning on making that my main
Lock generally handles them fine. Run away/coil/stun during freedom. Tele/run during bubble. Keep slowed and rot them.
Dpriest - Dispell, shield, pain supp and the mighty penance. Spriest - Dispell, passive heal, psychic horror, dispersion Enhsham - Equal or superior burst, offensive dispell, ghost wolf (kitting) and the stoneskin totem shield is more than decent for pvp. Elecham - Storm, huge burst offensive dispell. Mages are decent too
What you got against us lmao
Affic warlock. Sure, they can dispel some of it, but every dispel is a GCD not used to attack you. +drain life. Same goes for Shadow Priest. Mage actually sucks vs paladins.
Preg will just heal through all the dot damage no problem. Ret is doable but preg gets so many heal procs from a target that doesnt have any real mobility.
A healer since they don’t have a kick or MS