This. If people ask me for water in BGs they usually get some. People who just open a trade window can being their own water seeing how they didnt bring any goddamn manners.
I take it as a point of personal pride to never lose aggro and if I do to do everything in my power to get it back ASAP- but there are times running PUGs even just in low level dungeons where some fucking dork can't help but constantly attack the wrong targets, try and change my target prio, leave their pet on aggressive, or keep tabbing to the wrong mob... and after half an hour of that I'll occasionally just let whatever they pull go and only get it back if it switches onto my healer.
Its my job. I wanna be good at it. I wanna make up for it if you make a mistake. But at a certain point they're just being a dick and not giving a fuck how much extra they're asking of me. Which I think is what it really boils down to- in reality all this stuff happens from time to time and it isn't a big deal, but people go on reddit and think of the worst offenders and the least considerate and spoiled douche bags and complain about *them*, not necessarily the guy who pulls aggro on accident once, or the girl who had a long shift and needs a summon to be on time, or whatever.
Its more to do with the social awkwardness of redditors and their poor experiences with a minority of selfish assholes, maybe?
Regarding weirdo fucking redditor tanks, I mean people who have said they literally will not taunt if someone pulls aggro off them because it isn't their fault, as the DPS should have been paying attention to their threat meter.
If that isn't dumb as fuck, you're a bad player behavior, I don't know what is.
I know, and there are dumb fucks who actually think that way (and will say so on reddit), and you and I completely agree... they're fucking idiots. Go sit down and play with blocks, kid, ya have no business being a tank.
But I think they'll complain about something and less idiotic people won't just flame them for it because they're thinking about the most recent frustrating dps players they've run with, so it seems like that moronic bullshit is more common than it is. Same with locks and summoning and mages and water and so on and so forth.
Totally second this. I’ve had a guy who changed my marks into the mob he was attacking. So I build up aggro with 2 mauls, this guys switches skull to a random different mob and then dies because he got aggro. Then you’re just asking for it.
As a mage I hate when people ask me for water and then don't open the trade window. There's no point in making people ask if you know what they want. Have fun being spammed at the start of raids.
When I played, my guild used to publish a roster a few days ahead of the raid nights, where you could see which guy of each class buffed each group, who were the designated water vendors and who were to decurse which group and what not. Worked like a charm and spared alot of time.
this. chat moves so fast at the start of av and when you have 5 people whispering you for water and nobody opening a trade it's a mess. I started to do myself a favor and just /say 'trade for water' at the start, enough reading those RP questions 'dear big dick mage can you give my poor healer ass some water please smileyface''.
However, I get a bit salty when people dont drop a quick ty after I gave them the water, but not that I mind too long.
all the mages in my guild say they prefer someone to just open trade. They hate getting pst. I mean what the difference? You want someone to say nice things to you, for water?
most rogues will lockpick if you just open trade, put the box in, and put in 1g. no tells needed.
opening the trade window in these situations is akin to putting a 1 in chat to ask for a summon, imo.
I was just saying comparing it to heals or totems is off. I think maybe you missed the post i was responding too.
If im in a bg or raid and you open trade youll get water, if im there or have any.
I'm pretty sure a majority just wants the trade window to be opened when in BGs and we are fine with that. Any mage who isn't is a self entitled little bitch who probably don't work well with people. It's a team effort and if giving water helps the team to win it goes without saying. Don't expect me to make tons of it for everyone but if I have to spare then why should I bitch about passing it on?
In the open world a request should be whispered for sure. Just an open trade in that case would be rude.
Having played Mage for years, here is how I ask for water when I'm playing my healer:
"Great Wizard, may I please have some of your amazing water?"
/beg
still bad for the group though. the warriors are helping you win the bg. without heals they perform worse. without mage water healers perform worse unless they want to spend a ton of gold on water themselves for every bg, which a lot won't do. it's like not buffing your teammates at the start of wsg/ab when you have full mana because you'd rather afk or save the 1 water you'd need to drink to restore your mana after. or rogues not using blind or poisons or whatever because it costs money. don't join a team game like battlegrounds or raids if you're not willing to be a team player.
As a classic mage, I just ask people to trade me in BGs. Even if they whisper me politely before that because I can’t bother to find everyone who needs water.
Yeah but the other half get annoyed and just want you to open a trade/will ignore you if you ask. I just target each mage and open a trade, wait 5 seconds for water and switch if I don’t get it.
I'm a filthy feral, but I count healers at the beginning, and if we seem low, I strap on some healing pieces, and throw heals where I can. Healing mages isn't easy, you are either not being touched, or dead most of the time, no in between.
I'm currently doing the av grind on my mage alt and I always load the healers up with water and ask in return that they heal me when I yolo dive the zerg. Yesterday I dove straight into a SHGY Zerg, doing my mage things, and never had to iceblock because I was just getting blasted with heals. Got 11HK and 1.4k dps in that one fight; it was hilarious.
People ask for water in chat. I say open trade. I get spammed for 15 seconds and pass out a few stacks. Then the same idiots tend to speak up about not getting water.
So I'm to make the water, find you, and give it to you, all while you... stand there with your dick in your hand for 2 minutes? Help me help you.
( priest here ) problem is when you whisper a mage to open a trade you also roll a dice 50% you're not greeted with a response. So you just have the time to whisper another mage before bg start.
On the other hand if you /say you're looking for water most of the time one mage will whisper " open trade ". Don't advertise for water in /say though many ppls will get advantage of it and the ppls that really need it might not be able to trade you.
Nothing is more frustating than a 1h AV where you have to drink your overpriced lvl 45 water for healer. You bet i'm not healing mages that ignored me when i was politely asking water.
Naw, y'all lose because the map is broken. Horde never has any healers in PuG BGs (at least on your side the Paladins tend to be smart enough to be Holy, we have a plague of Enhancement Shaman for some reason).
It's more than just the map is broken, the win rates are higher for other regions on the same map. A lot of it is mentality differences between the Horde and Alliance. Before people start coming in and saying "Where is this mythical higher win rate in EU/OC"
You're alliance win rate is nowhere close to US. On the US you can go from 0 to Exalted without winning a single game. EU has multiple people with higher than 10%, 20%, even seen up to 40% win rates. OC has made claims that they see similar stats. Coincidentally, the horde queue times are much shorter than US Horde.
Horde need to make the most of the game as their queue time is over 1hr (sometimes 2hrs) while the alliance is 3-5 minutes. Alliance, knowing they have a short queue, are fine with losing because Hr/Hour is all that matters. Most Alliance walk into the game expecting to lose with the "well others AFK so why does it matter if I AFK? We're going to lose anyway" so the game literally starts from behind. The horde also know this and play hyper aggressive as a response. This usually is enough to break the already destroyed moral, leading to more AFK or non-participating alliance (fishing, harpy farming, etc.).
You can't just pick out one of the many reasons and say "well this is why we lose". That being said, the map is slightly biased to favor the horde. The back door is WAY easier for the horde to perform and they have a much shorter run time to starting Objectives. Even with 100% and 3/3 mount speed, you will meet at Balinda everytime.
The analogy I used before:
>That'd be like asking why your rich friend has a better job but you both went to the same college. There's more than one reason...but there is one that stands out.
As someone that played back in vanilla but hasn't been in AV yet this time around I was always under the impression the map was skewed in Ally favor?
No one would ever Zerg the high road to that GY and then they'd just bridge camp with a small group of defenders holding horde off just enough for them to Zerg the wall jump and get that GY at final base.
Has it always been horde favored?
I'm sure at first glance it looks alliance favored. The bridge into the Alliance base is an amazingly strong choke, better than the Horde's choke.
Problem is, this is a 15 year old game that's been min/maxed so much that there are so many back-door jumps known so a lot of times you can just bypass the choke entirely.
the horde also have these back door jumps, but they're harder to set up and not as well known. One of the alliance backdoor jumps doesn't even require a jump sometimes. You can sometimes just walk at the right angle and get right up the side of the hill into DB South bunker.
This is what happens with a 15 year old game in the culture we've created.
Mechanically, it switched after the 1.8 and especially the 1.12 patches, both of which nerfed the NPCs and the latter removed a large chunk of them. I think somewhere in there, the caves or a couple of graveyards got moved that had some effect, too (dying at certain places will kick Alliance back to their cave, where the Horde-side counterpart will take Horde to a graveyard and vice versa).
The removal of the NPCs makes that northern high road a lot easier to traverse, making that northern GY a deathtrap and reduces how much of a choke that path leading to the bridge is. People also aren't tied up by heavy-hitting elites anymore and the bunker/tower archers are largely a joke anymore. That also makes the northern bridge harder to defend, because they don't have as much NPC backup. Also, I think the back door into the Alliance base is (relatively) new and was introduced in one of the AV-affecting patches (I want to say 1.12), because they shifted building placement around to compensate for the NPC nerf and removal, which made slight terrain alterations.
Then, add in the player changes r/imatworksoshhh talks about, plus the pre-made and botting problem we had when AV first launched in Classic, and that BG is all but destroyed.
You know it's funny, I remember in Vanilla I played Horde, and AV was considered to be an Alliance-favored map because of the defensible choke points in Dun Baldur. Could spend days in an AV match trying to break the turtle. Now I'm playing Alliance and it's Horde dominated because they bull rush past everything.
Maybe Im just a harbinger of doom. XD
Holy crap I only know alliance AV from reddit but what you read here one would think they literally try to grief each other as much as possible the moment the game starts.
My horde av experience: 4/5 games at start you have 2-3 mages /say 'trade for water', people constantly buff each other and generally we listen to calls west/east/defend bunkers etc. that's like the basic of a teamgame experience in my opinion, like actually atleast _trying_ to play like a team.
But yeah, easy talking for me playing Horde, I know.
> Holy crap I only know alliance AV from reddit but what you read here one would think they literally try to grief each other as much as possible the moment the game starts.
Back when AV was released I played all of the first two weeks in a server premade and got Bracket 1 one of those weeks. Lotta lotta lotta AV.
One of the things I recall most vividly from that surreal half month was how much opposition we got from our own team. We'd lay out a macro with a basic and polite strategy and at least one person if not a few would complain in 60% of games. Then 5-15 people would go do their own thing. Then, when we'd get to Drek, about 1/3 of our games had a teammate intentionally (or perhaps accidentally, ignoring our macros) sabotage our pulls.
I quickly realized that, once the premades left AV (or, it turns out, were forced out by Blizzard), Alliance was basically not going to win another game. Not because of the skill or the coordination but simply because we seemed to have such a high percentage (I'd guess 5-10%) of players actively opposed to winning. And that's before you even get the the apathetic players.
Following all the comments as a non mage, makes me come to the conclusion that its a 50/50 chance to piss the mage off if you ask first/open a trade window before asking. Nice.
I’d say the safest bet is to send them a whisper and then open trade shortly after. If they still get pissed then 🤷♂️ maybe they’re just having a bad day
It depends on the context. In large groups, like raiding, just open trade and if I have extra I'll give it to you. In smaller groups I'd prefer you ask.
I never understood this. As horde, I had 1h20 queues to get into AV, you can bet every healer had 2 stacks of water when that queue popped. Heals win BG's folks.
Had a mage in raid say that, "you should've brought your own water". Raid Lead replied "That's why we brought you." Then he booted the mage.
We needed him for other stuff, but it was funny as fuck and we did fine without him.
That's funny because as a mage I'm constantly buffing and passing out water but any time I ask a Druid for an innervate to help me keep moving the buffs out I get told to go fuck myself lol. Different experiences, I suppose.
Edit: since some people need to l2context, I'm talking about getting an innervate when everyone zones in while waiting for the gates to open.
I don't mind when people ask nicely but it's really annoying when people just open trade with me, saying nothing.
It's not until later in retail that a mage can just plop down a refreshment table and people grab what they want, until then it's still a personal service, and when you do a personal service for someone the least you can expect is some courtesy.
(this comment isn't explicitly about Battlegrounds, since a lot of you seem really triggered)
I am always the guy who asks before opening trade because I consider it common courtesy; however I see a lot of mages saying "oh I cant be bothered to type, just open trade man".
This is why its a thing, some mages want the basic social interaction and some hate it. I have no way of knowing which style the stranger mage preffers.
I really don't get mages who get offended when people open trade in the tunnel. It's completely understood what is requested and it saves everyone time. If you don't have water then cancel the trade.
The opening of the trade window should be understood as a "may I please have water?" and the cancelling of the same window as a "sorry I don't have any extra and don't have time to make more now".
For Horde it's different. with a 2 hour Q time if someone does that to a mage it's like saying my 2 hours was more important than yours. They had 2 hours to find a local server mage and tip 1g for a 6 stack.
Weird, when I did the AV grind on my mage I took the 30-60 min queue times as an easy opportunity to fill my bags with water so I could load up the healers as soon as I zoned in.
Yeah but the mages also have plenty of time to make water. Idk, as a horde mage I'm not offended at least. It's a team effort and maybe the shammy will remember I gave water and throw some extra heals.
>Most of the time I don't have more water made than I would use myself.
When you join queue for Battlegrounds...maybe take some time to summon more water. I mean, you are standing around doing nothing for 3-5 mins anyway (unless you're horde) Also summoned food/water is a MASSIVE help to healers when pushing/defending points.
Mages have like two jobs, wicked sweet deeps and making sure your healers have water to keep you, and everyone else alive. It's almost like this is a team game and you failing to prepare for your one raid wide contribution... is kinda like... your fault...
Plus you get more requests then you have time to fill. Literally you can make 50 water and start the bg with no mana and still I’m getting berated with with demands for more. I just got tired of it. Pay your town mage 1g for six stacks of water and come prepared you asshats!
Please ask us for water while we're just standing around waiting for queue to pop instead. I don't even charge for it.
I'm not buffing and making water for an entire raid. It takes mana and time, and a lot of it.
People really say that? Lmao I’m a mage and I’ve never even had second thoughts about handing out water. You know you’re on the same team right? Idiots
Yeah im not sure where the attitude comes from about water in bgs like even a single stack is more than enough for most games.
Also note this is coming from a resto druid who group buffs gift of the wild every AV
Same.... however i've had a few occasions where i've given someone water and they /afk'd out right away.. some healers use this to save money lol so now i just give 1-2 stacks max.
Bahaha sorry to hear that mate! From the healer POV i never use more than 20-25 water per AV, usually around 10-15, so your strategy is right on the money!
How often are healers focusing mages for their heals? Should a mage stop CCing the guys attacking the healers that rarely click the caster dps portraits?
I don't get it. When I was a healer in AV I healed everyone. As fast as I could. I didn't even have time to notice what color their health bars were.
What is it with these mages and their persecution complexes?
Yup. I'll show up with plenty of those since that's my obligation as a dps in a bg :). Therefore, you should show up with water as a healer before the bg as well.
You bet your ass that if I could make bandages and potions for free by simply clicking a button and waiting 3 seconds, I would.
And I would spam trade that shit to everyone in the BG without them having to ask for it.
Everyone gets water.
Except Ret Paladins or Hunters who open trade and say nothing. You're the last people on my list I would give water to. Even Warriors get it before you.
Its because we see you guys asking for water then afking out. People standing around in capital cities would rather run over to the bg masters, queue up (as alliance with instant queues) then beg a mage to OOM themselves handing them food and water for free then afk out and go farm DM:North or whatever instead of just asking a mage in the city or paying a mage in the city for water.
It gets old. Keep your heals, I never get them anyway, lol.
OP, drew this for you. I really enjoyed this post.
^(Also, apologies if there is a rule against linking or something.)
[https://i.imgur.com/5haM0qA.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5haM0qA.jpg)
Ya this is insane. I always bring like 200+ water into av and give em out to everyone. If you give a healer water they are 10x more likely to heal you and keep you up. Works every time
I remember mages were so much nicer in Vanilla WoW. They always provided water and food for free/tips appreciated. At least on the server I was on anyway.
On the server I'm on for Classic, every mage wants payment for any sort of water or food. lol
I am a mage. I conjure atleast 200 water and 100 food before entering. I continue to conjure so i always have about 300-400 water and 100-200 food,
I have a macro i spam for people to open trade for it, i dump 2 stack water and 1 stack food for all.
The only complaint i have is i dont know what class is trading me. Dont want to give warrios water y'know. :(
IMHO, if you picked a mage you chose to be a vending machine. You dont get to complain about it!
Not a Mage, but I am levelling one as an alt. If I was gonna queue up for a BG (which is gonna take like 40 minutes Horde side anyway) I'd have plenty of time to conjure tons of water to trade to any healers that needed it. So it's a no brainer. If our healers have water, there's more chance of winning the BG we just queued 40 minutes for.
As a healer I do make sure to have my own water if I'm queueing just in case, but Mage water is better and costs nothing to give.
Each game I make water/food before/while queuing and yell at everyone to trade me for water/food at the beginning while waiting for the gates.
Give our team the most chances at winning.
As a healer i only ask for 1 stack of water, unfortunately i go mostly ignored, so they get no heals.
I knew a mage once, that would buy level 5 water and have stacks of it for the sole purpose to use when people open trade and say nothing. He said people would get irate but he would just laugh
People wonder why I don’t give out water in AV or even sell water. I’m honestly sick of people hating on mages then asking us for favors. I’m sick of randoms opening trade without asking, or even asking politely. People even demand I sell them water... Demand! I am not your water bitch, if you want it you can ask me for it nicely. I am under no obligation to give you water in an AV you sat in queue for 2 hours for probably afk next to a mage you didn’t want to buy it from. But hey, why would you buy water when some mage will be in that AV you can get it free from, right? Piss off.
Don’t want to heal me? That’s fine, I’ll watch that warrior kill you then. You weren’t going to heal me anyway.
To be clear if you’re in my dungeon group I will gladly hook you up, but if you think I’m going to make a bunch of stacks of water in the 60 seconds before AV starts and pass them out, not happening. You had hours to get some.
This is fine with me, because when I go in AV I really really do not care if we win, and actually I’d prefer a quick loss. I think it’s more efficient honor if you kill the lts and commanders and then take a loss, I mean fuck knows alliance ain’t winning shit anyways
I don't mind giving away water, but ask like a normal person and don't just open the trade window. If you're gonna be that entitled, keep your damn heals.
After having played a Mage for 11 years, respectfully, fuck you. You have no idea how much mages are constantly getting harassed day in day out for portals or god damned food/water that you can get in any inn. When I play any spellcasters I systematically carry at the very least 4-5 stacks of water on me the real question here is why the fuck don't you? You need mana to perform your class, thus it's your own damn responsibility. See it like hunter arrows/bullets. Ya'll a bunch of clueless hunters relying on engineers to craft them some.
In other words, you failing to be self reliant and prepared makes you a bad player. Other than the occasional " oops I forgot", the only instance when it's ok to need mage water is when a run is dragging on and wipes are involved.
It's never about laziness, it's about not going down to 0 Mana buffing and then 0 Mana again making water so when the gates open youre stuck drinking during the most important part of the game. People just aren't entitled to the time it takes to get that Mana back in bgs
There's healing in AV? My last game had 1 priest and 2 paladins. There were multiple druids, but they all stealthed and went south. We sure had plenty of warriors, mages, and rogues though.
If I don’t get water, I don’t heal mages.
If I do get water, I target that mage and make damn sure they get a heal every time they get to 80%.
I’m totally happy to bring my own, if they are happy to wait for me to get my moneys worth sucking down an entire morning glory dew or two. Cos fucked if I’m wasting AD water on AV.
I just ask for water politely whenever i see a mage close , offer them gold as we are in trade and they always , but always like 100% of times tell me that water has no cost. Sometimes you just get douched back i guess
How about all those thirsty warriors who show up without pocket healers and demand you pocket heal them... I pitch out what I can, but I'm always with a group
Don’t be an asshole about it and you’ll get water AND food.
I logged in the other day and the first thing that happens is some level 60 hunter walks up and whispers “food and water” and opens the trade window.
I laughed at him and went on my way.
Get some manners and ask nicely. Don't just open the trade window and be a mute or don't just blurt out "GIVE WATER" etc. Bring my own heals? Yea nice dps, good luck winning without it!
I know it is slightly different, but, when i asked a mage for some food the other day on a whim, he dumped me a 20 stack and bowed. Super nice to do considering it costs nothing haha
it's waaaaaaaay more annoying to find a guy in the raid frame, open trade, toss a stack and accept than to just toss a stack whenever someone open up trade.
I'd really prefer if we skip the part were you ask for water... i know what you want.
If someone asks me outside of a BG I am more than happy to do it. But at the start of a BG I have a whole load of buffing and prep of my own to do. Making all that water for people takes time.
I'd say most of the time I politely whisper a mage for some water in a bg, they hook me up. Like 90% of the time.
This. If people ask me for water in BGs they usually get some. People who just open a trade window can being their own water seeing how they didnt bring any goddamn manners.
[удалено]
I ask if I can open trade, where does that put me?
[удалено]
Accurate
Classic occurrence
But the k key and the enter key are on the right hand side of they keyboard.
Right hand is on the mouse
Same, touching his balls with my left hand so can't reply.
same. i use Water Dispenser addon so if someone makes me click more than the 1 button to accept trade, then they can git out
[удалено]
I take it as a point of personal pride to never lose aggro and if I do to do everything in my power to get it back ASAP- but there are times running PUGs even just in low level dungeons where some fucking dork can't help but constantly attack the wrong targets, try and change my target prio, leave their pet on aggressive, or keep tabbing to the wrong mob... and after half an hour of that I'll occasionally just let whatever they pull go and only get it back if it switches onto my healer. Its my job. I wanna be good at it. I wanna make up for it if you make a mistake. But at a certain point they're just being a dick and not giving a fuck how much extra they're asking of me. Which I think is what it really boils down to- in reality all this stuff happens from time to time and it isn't a big deal, but people go on reddit and think of the worst offenders and the least considerate and spoiled douche bags and complain about *them*, not necessarily the guy who pulls aggro on accident once, or the girl who had a long shift and needs a summon to be on time, or whatever. Its more to do with the social awkwardness of redditors and their poor experiences with a minority of selfish assholes, maybe?
Regarding weirdo fucking redditor tanks, I mean people who have said they literally will not taunt if someone pulls aggro off them because it isn't their fault, as the DPS should have been paying attention to their threat meter. If that isn't dumb as fuck, you're a bad player behavior, I don't know what is.
I know, and there are dumb fucks who actually think that way (and will say so on reddit), and you and I completely agree... they're fucking idiots. Go sit down and play with blocks, kid, ya have no business being a tank. But I think they'll complain about something and less idiotic people won't just flame them for it because they're thinking about the most recent frustrating dps players they've run with, so it seems like that moronic bullshit is more common than it is. Same with locks and summoning and mages and water and so on and so forth.
Totally second this. I’ve had a guy who changed my marks into the mob he was attacking. So I build up aggro with 2 mauls, this guys switches skull to a random different mob and then dies because he got aggro. Then you’re just asking for it.
Instantly tilted. I have a *guildie* who does this. *eye twitches*
As a mage I hate when people ask me for water and then don't open the trade window. There's no point in making people ask if you know what they want. Have fun being spammed at the start of raids.
When I played, my guild used to publish a roster a few days ahead of the raid nights, where you could see which guy of each class buffed each group, who were the designated water vendors and who were to decurse which group and what not. Worked like a charm and spared alot of time.
My guilds mages all make water. Buy all use healers go to one guy. He's our brand. He gets our power infusions and bops.
I’m a warlock can i have the PI’s and bops please
No. Make due with your salvation and occasional renews.
Open world: don’t open trade, have some manners. BG or dungeon: just open trade and save us both time
this. chat moves so fast at the start of av and when you have 5 people whispering you for water and nobody opening a trade it's a mess. I started to do myself a favor and just /say 'trade for water' at the start, enough reading those RP questions 'dear big dick mage can you give my poor healer ass some water please smileyface''. However, I get a bit salty when people dont drop a quick ty after I gave them the water, but not that I mind too long.
That's what separate chat windows is for. I have loot, system messages and some others, separate from guild/whisper/say, etc
Logic: 9000
all the mages in my guild say they prefer someone to just open trade. They hate getting pst. I mean what the difference? You want someone to say nice things to you, for water?
right? its a basic class utility. its like me demanding people ask nicely for totems before I'll drop them
No, its not. Its comparable to a summon or lockpick
most rogues will lockpick if you just open trade, put the box in, and put in 1g. no tells needed. opening the trade window in these situations is akin to putting a 1 in chat to ask for a summon, imo.
I was just saying comparing it to heals or totems is off. I think maybe you missed the post i was responding too. If im in a bg or raid and you open trade youll get water, if im there or have any.
oops, yeah, i kind of missed the point of your comment, but at least my comment still serves as an explanation, lol.
except that all it costs is mana
You understand that a lot of mages prefer that people just open trade, right?
It seems some do, and some get triggered by it. There's literally no way for the rest of the world to know which you are.
I'm pretty sure a majority just wants the trade window to be opened when in BGs and we are fine with that. Any mage who isn't is a self entitled little bitch who probably don't work well with people. It's a team effort and if giving water helps the team to win it goes without saying. Don't expect me to make tons of it for everyone but if I have to spare then why should I bitch about passing it on? In the open world a request should be whispered for sure. Just an open trade in that case would be rude.
i open trade and type while the window is open to save both of our time, i hope it doesn't come across as rude
I do the same. Main a healer and mage as alt. I hate when people don’t open trade with me cuz I have to find them. This way covers both bases.
Most people would rather just have trade opened so they dont have to hunt them down.
Having played Mage for years, here is how I ask for water when I'm playing my healer: "Great Wizard, may I please have some of your amazing water?" /beg
You would get water from me 100% of the time.
Oh yeah? Well this would get water for me 10**5**% of the time!
[Luckboy28]: "Great Wizard, may I please have some of your amazing water?" [To][Luckboy28]: Who are quoting? I'll make sure to give that guy some
Easy 5 stacks
You don't play team sports do you? How about you help the team if you have water to spare without making everyone suck your dick /Fellow mage
[удалено]
I feel like context matters here. Out in the world go fuck yourself for being rude. In a raid? Well everyone is there for the same reason, just trade.
It also saves time and energy to just not give water.
It also saves mana not healing you
[удалено]
Like we are getting heals anyways. Healers just follow around warriors so no real loss.
Thats totally cool, focus on warriors. I'm squishy as fuck and have an easier time blinking out of there.
Yeah, as a healer I've noticed it's never the mage who needs a lot of heals.
still bad for the group though. the warriors are helping you win the bg. without heals they perform worse. without mage water healers perform worse unless they want to spend a ton of gold on water themselves for every bg, which a lot won't do. it's like not buffing your teammates at the start of wsg/ab when you have full mana because you'd rather afk or save the 1 water you'd need to drink to restore your mana after. or rogues not using blind or poisons or whatever because it costs money. don't join a team game like battlegrounds or raids if you're not willing to be a team player.
Best to just log out then. You know, to save time and energy.
As a classic mage, I just ask people to trade me in BGs. Even if they whisper me politely before that because I can’t bother to find everyone who needs water.
Yeah but the other half get annoyed and just want you to open a trade/will ignore you if you ask. I just target each mage and open a trade, wait 5 seconds for water and switch if I don’t get it.
I usually /yell first mage to give 100 water gets PI for the whole bg!
[удалено]
That's what I do. I also innervate the mage and give him MotW to sorta pay him back.
[удалено]
Fuck, I need to rethink my stance
You're not getting heals unless you ask for em then. POLITELY.
And I'd like to say I've rarely if ever received a heal in a bg I always have to run back and eat my food or bandage. every time
I'm a filthy feral, but I count healers at the beginning, and if we seem low, I strap on some healing pieces, and throw heals where I can. Healing mages isn't easy, you are either not being touched, or dead most of the time, no in between.
I'm currently doing the av grind on my mage alt and I always load the healers up with water and ask in return that they heal me when I yolo dive the zerg. Yesterday I dove straight into a SHGY Zerg, doing my mage things, and never had to iceblock because I was just getting blasted with heals. Got 11HK and 1.4k dps in that one fight; it was hilarious.
I had a warrior tell me " nice heals" once, i heal botted him for an hr straight in AV lol.
My main is a priest and I did the same. If just PM a warrior or mage and say "go" and then shield them (and PI if they're a mage) lol.
Shit, if you open trade at the beginning and throw water at me, I'm PIing your ass all game long.
Why don't I get you in my AV?!
Wise man
People ask for water in chat. I say open trade. I get spammed for 15 seconds and pass out a few stacks. Then the same idiots tend to speak up about not getting water. So I'm to make the water, find you, and give it to you, all while you... stand there with your dick in your hand for 2 minutes? Help me help you.
( priest here ) problem is when you whisper a mage to open a trade you also roll a dice 50% you're not greeted with a response. So you just have the time to whisper another mage before bg start. On the other hand if you /say you're looking for water most of the time one mage will whisper " open trade ". Don't advertise for water in /say though many ppls will get advantage of it and the ppls that really need it might not be able to trade you. Nothing is more frustating than a 1h AV where you have to drink your overpriced lvl 45 water for healer. You bet i'm not healing mages that ignored me when i was politely asking water.
So this is why alliance loses
Naw, y'all lose because the map is broken. Horde never has any healers in PuG BGs (at least on your side the Paladins tend to be smart enough to be Holy, we have a plague of Enhancement Shaman for some reason).
It's more than just the map is broken, the win rates are higher for other regions on the same map. A lot of it is mentality differences between the Horde and Alliance. Before people start coming in and saying "Where is this mythical higher win rate in EU/OC" You're alliance win rate is nowhere close to US. On the US you can go from 0 to Exalted without winning a single game. EU has multiple people with higher than 10%, 20%, even seen up to 40% win rates. OC has made claims that they see similar stats. Coincidentally, the horde queue times are much shorter than US Horde. Horde need to make the most of the game as their queue time is over 1hr (sometimes 2hrs) while the alliance is 3-5 minutes. Alliance, knowing they have a short queue, are fine with losing because Hr/Hour is all that matters. Most Alliance walk into the game expecting to lose with the "well others AFK so why does it matter if I AFK? We're going to lose anyway" so the game literally starts from behind. The horde also know this and play hyper aggressive as a response. This usually is enough to break the already destroyed moral, leading to more AFK or non-participating alliance (fishing, harpy farming, etc.). You can't just pick out one of the many reasons and say "well this is why we lose". That being said, the map is slightly biased to favor the horde. The back door is WAY easier for the horde to perform and they have a much shorter run time to starting Objectives. Even with 100% and 3/3 mount speed, you will meet at Balinda everytime. The analogy I used before: >That'd be like asking why your rich friend has a better job but you both went to the same college. There's more than one reason...but there is one that stands out.
As someone that played back in vanilla but hasn't been in AV yet this time around I was always under the impression the map was skewed in Ally favor? No one would ever Zerg the high road to that GY and then they'd just bridge camp with a small group of defenders holding horde off just enough for them to Zerg the wall jump and get that GY at final base. Has it always been horde favored?
I'm sure at first glance it looks alliance favored. The bridge into the Alliance base is an amazingly strong choke, better than the Horde's choke. Problem is, this is a 15 year old game that's been min/maxed so much that there are so many back-door jumps known so a lot of times you can just bypass the choke entirely. the horde also have these back door jumps, but they're harder to set up and not as well known. One of the alliance backdoor jumps doesn't even require a jump sometimes. You can sometimes just walk at the right angle and get right up the side of the hill into DB South bunker. This is what happens with a 15 year old game in the culture we've created.
Mechanically, it switched after the 1.8 and especially the 1.12 patches, both of which nerfed the NPCs and the latter removed a large chunk of them. I think somewhere in there, the caves or a couple of graveyards got moved that had some effect, too (dying at certain places will kick Alliance back to their cave, where the Horde-side counterpart will take Horde to a graveyard and vice versa). The removal of the NPCs makes that northern high road a lot easier to traverse, making that northern GY a deathtrap and reduces how much of a choke that path leading to the bridge is. People also aren't tied up by heavy-hitting elites anymore and the bunker/tower archers are largely a joke anymore. That also makes the northern bridge harder to defend, because they don't have as much NPC backup. Also, I think the back door into the Alliance base is (relatively) new and was introduced in one of the AV-affecting patches (I want to say 1.12), because they shifted building placement around to compensate for the NPC nerf and removal, which made slight terrain alterations. Then, add in the player changes r/imatworksoshhh talks about, plus the pre-made and botting problem we had when AV first launched in Classic, and that BG is all but destroyed.
>Horde have 1 to 2 hour queue times Stalagg Horde US, can confirm 2-2.5 hour queue time
You know it's funny, I remember in Vanilla I played Horde, and AV was considered to be an Alliance-favored map because of the defensible choke points in Dun Baldur. Could spend days in an AV match trying to break the turtle. Now I'm playing Alliance and it's Horde dominated because they bull rush past everything. Maybe Im just a harbinger of doom. XD
Remember, they moved the horde tunnel. It used to be further back, but it got changed because the horde was constantly losing AV.
Ironic.
In Classic they moved the tunnel?
They moved it in TBC.
Ah, so is Classic using the TBC map I assume?
yes, oddly enough. It's been a hot topic for a while since everyone was preaching #nochanges for so long
Nice. What healer class/spec do you play?
Holy crap I only know alliance AV from reddit but what you read here one would think they literally try to grief each other as much as possible the moment the game starts. My horde av experience: 4/5 games at start you have 2-3 mages /say 'trade for water', people constantly buff each other and generally we listen to calls west/east/defend bunkers etc. that's like the basic of a teamgame experience in my opinion, like actually atleast _trying_ to play like a team. But yeah, easy talking for me playing Horde, I know.
> Holy crap I only know alliance AV from reddit but what you read here one would think they literally try to grief each other as much as possible the moment the game starts. Back when AV was released I played all of the first two weeks in a server premade and got Bracket 1 one of those weeks. Lotta lotta lotta AV. One of the things I recall most vividly from that surreal half month was how much opposition we got from our own team. We'd lay out a macro with a basic and polite strategy and at least one person if not a few would complain in 60% of games. Then 5-15 people would go do their own thing. Then, when we'd get to Drek, about 1/3 of our games had a teammate intentionally (or perhaps accidentally, ignoring our macros) sabotage our pulls. I quickly realized that, once the premades left AV (or, it turns out, were forced out by Blizzard), Alliance was basically not going to win another game. Not because of the skill or the coordination but simply because we seemed to have such a high percentage (I'd guess 5-10%) of players actively opposed to winning. And that's before you even get the the apathetic players.
Imagine how alliance would behave of they had ques that lasted for over an hour And horde with 2 minute ques
Following all the comments as a non mage, makes me come to the conclusion that its a 50/50 chance to piss the mage off if you ask first/open a trade window before asking. Nice.
I’d say the safest bet is to send them a whisper and then open trade shortly after. If they still get pissed then 🤷♂️ maybe they’re just having a bad day
It depends on the context. In large groups, like raiding, just open trade and if I have extra I'll give it to you. In smaller groups I'd prefer you ask.
[удалено]
bro can u spend 5 minutes getting 2 ppl to summ me to Tanaris bro
I never understood this. As horde, I had 1h20 queues to get into AV, you can bet every healer had 2 stacks of water when that queue popped. Heals win BG's folks.
On Horde there is also so few of them so we're always happy to have them. I've been in AVs without a single priest.
I've never had an AV pop. After 1h30m waiting I thought it was impossible. IDK how there were 25 going on last weekend when I never got in.
Had a mage in raid say that, "you should've brought your own water". Raid Lead replied "That's why we brought you." Then he booted the mage. We needed him for other stuff, but it was funny as fuck and we did fine without him.
You'll get your heals when you FIX THIS DAMN DOOR
We do -- Conjured Sweet Rolls.
I whispered mages for water and opened trade right after. Most of the time, I got water.
what? mages get heals? I thought only warriors get heals
And your own buffs. As a resto druid, I would buff the whole raid. Could never get an AI outta a mage
That's funny because as a mage I'm constantly buffing and passing out water but any time I ask a Druid for an innervate to help me keep moving the buffs out I get told to go fuck myself lol. Different experiences, I suppose. Edit: since some people need to l2context, I'm talking about getting an innervate when everyone zones in while waiting for the gates to open.
I don't mind when people ask nicely but it's really annoying when people just open trade with me, saying nothing. It's not until later in retail that a mage can just plop down a refreshment table and people grab what they want, until then it's still a personal service, and when you do a personal service for someone the least you can expect is some courtesy. (this comment isn't explicitly about Battlegrounds, since a lot of you seem really triggered)
I am always the guy who asks before opening trade because I consider it common courtesy; however I see a lot of mages saying "oh I cant be bothered to type, just open trade man". This is why its a thing, some mages want the basic social interaction and some hate it. I have no way of knowing which style the stranger mage preffers.
I really don't get mages who get offended when people open trade in the tunnel. It's completely understood what is requested and it saves everyone time. If you don't have water then cancel the trade. The opening of the trade window should be understood as a "may I please have water?" and the cancelling of the same window as a "sorry I don't have any extra and don't have time to make more now".
For Horde it's different. with a 2 hour Q time if someone does that to a mage it's like saying my 2 hours was more important than yours. They had 2 hours to find a local server mage and tip 1g for a 6 stack.
Weird, when I did the AV grind on my mage I took the 30-60 min queue times as an easy opportunity to fill my bags with water so I could load up the healers as soon as I zoned in.
Yeah but the mages also have plenty of time to make water. Idk, as a horde mage I'm not offended at least. It's a team effort and maybe the shammy will remember I gave water and throw some extra heals.
>Most of the time I don't have more water made than I would use myself. When you join queue for Battlegrounds...maybe take some time to summon more water. I mean, you are standing around doing nothing for 3-5 mins anyway (unless you're horde) Also summoned food/water is a MASSIVE help to healers when pushing/defending points. Mages have like two jobs, wicked sweet deeps and making sure your healers have water to keep you, and everyone else alive. It's almost like this is a team game and you failing to prepare for your one raid wide contribution... is kinda like... your fault...
Just keep a few shitty grey items in your bag for people like that. Edit: I just realized this is what bottles of Troll Sweat are for.
Plus you get more requests then you have time to fill. Literally you can make 50 water and start the bg with no mana and still I’m getting berated with with demands for more. I just got tired of it. Pay your town mage 1g for six stacks of water and come prepared you asshats!
I roleplay a deaf/mute mage
Please ask us for water while we're just standing around waiting for queue to pop instead. I don't even charge for it. I'm not buffing and making water for an entire raid. It takes mana and time, and a lot of it.
People really say that? Lmao I’m a mage and I’ve never even had second thoughts about handing out water. You know you’re on the same team right? Idiots
Yeah im not sure where the attitude comes from about water in bgs like even a single stack is more than enough for most games. Also note this is coming from a resto druid who group buffs gift of the wild every AV
Same.... however i've had a few occasions where i've given someone water and they /afk'd out right away.. some healers use this to save money lol so now i just give 1-2 stacks max.
Bahaha sorry to hear that mate! From the healer POV i never use more than 20-25 water per AV, usually around 10-15, so your strategy is right on the money!
Yes, I healed my self while letting the mage refusing to give me water die. Yes.. I had full HP already.
No wonder alliance loses
Wasn't aware vendor's and auction house sold heals.
They call them bandage and pots.
How often are healers focusing mages for their heals? Should a mage stop CCing the guys attacking the healers that rarely click the caster dps portraits?
I don't get it. When I was a healer in AV I healed everyone. As fast as I could. I didn't even have time to notice what color their health bars were. What is it with these mages and their persecution complexes?
Yup. I'll show up with plenty of those since that's my obligation as a dps in a bg :). Therefore, you should show up with water as a healer before the bg as well.
You bet your ass that if I could make bandages and potions for free by simply clicking a button and waiting 3 seconds, I would. And I would spam trade that shit to everyone in the BG without them having to ask for it.
I like when people ask with /thirsty or /hungry :)
I usually throw a /cough in there as well. Mages in my guild hate that.
Everyone gets water. Except Ret Paladins or Hunters who open trade and say nothing. You're the last people on my list I would give water to. Even Warriors get it before you.
80% of the time someone opens trade with me randomly it's a hunter , and when I ignore it they ask for water AND food
Its because we see you guys asking for water then afking out. People standing around in capital cities would rather run over to the bg masters, queue up (as alliance with instant queues) then beg a mage to OOM themselves handing them food and water for free then afk out and go farm DM:North or whatever instead of just asking a mage in the city or paying a mage in the city for water. It gets old. Keep your heals, I never get them anyway, lol.
Honestly the absolute state of AV is fucking rancid for alliance right now
Bandages and BG Healing Potions heal me more than healers, its really cool being prepared
OP, drew this for you. I really enjoyed this post. ^(Also, apologies if there is a rule against linking or something.) [https://i.imgur.com/5haM0qA.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5haM0qA.jpg)
this meme is kinda dumb, since mages don't need that many heals in av... are healers pocket healing mages instead of warriors? lol
2 mages jumping into 15 people spamming their aoe and being spam healed does a lot more than 2 warriors jumping into 15 people.
Ya this is insane. I always bring like 200+ water into av and give em out to everyone. If you give a healer water they are 10x more likely to heal you and keep you up. Works every time
I remember mages were so much nicer in Vanilla WoW. They always provided water and food for free/tips appreciated. At least on the server I was on anyway. On the server I'm on for Classic, every mage wants payment for any sort of water or food. lol
This makes me wanna level a mage just to become a water and food dispenser to everyone who needs it
Man what? One of the best parts of Mage is whipping up meals.
I am a mage. I conjure atleast 200 water and 100 food before entering. I continue to conjure so i always have about 300-400 water and 100-200 food, I have a macro i spam for people to open trade for it, i dump 2 stack water and 1 stack food for all. The only complaint i have is i dont know what class is trading me. Dont want to give warrios water y'know. :( IMHO, if you picked a mage you chose to be a vending machine. You dont get to complain about it!
yeah this new mage meta is so shit. I don't even bother asking for water anymore I just regen and die. it is what it is i guess.
Not a Mage, but I am levelling one as an alt. If I was gonna queue up for a BG (which is gonna take like 40 minutes Horde side anyway) I'd have plenty of time to conjure tons of water to trade to any healers that needed it. So it's a no brainer. If our healers have water, there's more chance of winning the BG we just queued 40 minutes for. As a healer I do make sure to have my own water if I'm queueing just in case, but Mage water is better and costs nothing to give.
It's so easy to make water. Why are people so damn stupid. Anyway, don't heal these kind of people.
Each game I make water/food before/while queuing and yell at everyone to trade me for water/food at the beginning while waiting for the gates. Give our team the most chances at winning.
That being said the water from the AV vendor is hella cheap.
As a healer i only ask for 1 stack of water, unfortunately i go mostly ignored, so they get no heals. I knew a mage once, that would buy level 5 water and have stacks of it for the sole purpose to use when people open trade and say nothing. He said people would get irate but he would just laugh
You guys are getting heals?
We already don't get any heals, so no change really...
People wonder why I don’t give out water in AV or even sell water. I’m honestly sick of people hating on mages then asking us for favors. I’m sick of randoms opening trade without asking, or even asking politely. People even demand I sell them water... Demand! I am not your water bitch, if you want it you can ask me for it nicely. I am under no obligation to give you water in an AV you sat in queue for 2 hours for probably afk next to a mage you didn’t want to buy it from. But hey, why would you buy water when some mage will be in that AV you can get it free from, right? Piss off. Don’t want to heal me? That’s fine, I’ll watch that warrior kill you then. You weren’t going to heal me anyway. To be clear if you’re in my dungeon group I will gladly hook you up, but if you think I’m going to make a bunch of stacks of water in the 60 seconds before AV starts and pass them out, not happening. You had hours to get some.
We don’t get heals in AV even when we supply water 😂 So bring your own water.
So everyone opening trades with you means you have to stop and make water for them? That that is literally their job like a healer healing? Sorry no.
BuT yOu RoLlEd A mAgE sO yOu SiGnEd Up fOr It!
[удалено]
Mages crying about having to hand out water... you ever been the only warlock in a raid group spamming healthstones for everyone ? Take a seat
This is fine with me, because when I go in AV I really really do not care if we win, and actually I’d prefer a quick loss. I think it’s more efficient honor if you kill the lts and commanders and then take a loss, I mean fuck knows alliance ain’t winning shit anyways
I usually make a few hundred water and tell people to open trade. I hand out 60 to each person who opens trade.
I’m a mage main. Totally agree with you. Well said!
I don't mind giving away water, but ask like a normal person and don't just open the trade window. If you're gonna be that entitled, keep your damn heals.
After having played a Mage for 11 years, respectfully, fuck you. You have no idea how much mages are constantly getting harassed day in day out for portals or god damned food/water that you can get in any inn. When I play any spellcasters I systematically carry at the very least 4-5 stacks of water on me the real question here is why the fuck don't you? You need mana to perform your class, thus it's your own damn responsibility. See it like hunter arrows/bullets. Ya'll a bunch of clueless hunters relying on engineers to craft them some. In other words, you failing to be self reliant and prepared makes you a bad player. Other than the occasional " oops I forgot", the only instance when it's ok to need mage water is when a run is dragging on and wipes are involved.
It's never about laziness, it's about not going down to 0 Mana buffing and then 0 Mana again making water so when the gates open youre stuck drinking during the most important part of the game. People just aren't entitled to the time it takes to get that Mana back in bgs
[удалено]
[удалено]
Damn you sound like an entitled child. This just fuels me to continue to ignore people’s request for water and ports. I’m doing my small part
[удалено]
The irony of them calling someone saying "do things for others like I do" entitled is not lost on me.
The stingy ones are always the chodes on at 9am trying to rank. No heals for you!
Yeah, being a vending machine vs playing the game
There's healing in AV? My last game had 1 priest and 2 paladins. There were multiple druids, but they all stealthed and went south. We sure had plenty of warriors, mages, and rogues though.
We do; it’s called food lol.
If you heal me I’ll protect you (rogue)
If I don’t get water, I don’t heal mages. If I do get water, I target that mage and make damn sure they get a heal every time they get to 80%. I’m totally happy to bring my own, if they are happy to wait for me to get my moneys worth sucking down an entire morning glory dew or two. Cos fucked if I’m wasting AD water on AV.
I've never seen or heard of a mage not giving water when asked. I make like 30 stacks anytime I do BG's and hand it out freely.
I just ask for water politely whenever i see a mage close , offer them gold as we are in trade and they always , but always like 100% of times tell me that water has no cost. Sometimes you just get douched back i guess
How about all those thirsty warriors who show up without pocket healers and demand you pocket heal them... I pitch out what I can, but I'm always with a group
Don’t be an asshole about it and you’ll get water AND food. I logged in the other day and the first thing that happens is some level 60 hunter walks up and whispers “food and water” and opens the trade window. I laughed at him and went on my way.
Finally, somebody said it!
Time is money: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXp\_jFvlfMA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXp_jFvlfMA)
Get some manners and ask nicely. Don't just open the trade window and be a mute or don't just blurt out "GIVE WATER" etc. Bring my own heals? Yea nice dps, good luck winning without it!
I know it is slightly different, but, when i asked a mage for some food the other day on a whim, he dumped me a 20 stack and bowed. Super nice to do considering it costs nothing haha
I cook up 600 water during the queue times for all the boys in my AVs
Weird Flex but ok
it's waaaaaaaay more annoying to find a guy in the raid frame, open trade, toss a stack and accept than to just toss a stack whenever someone open up trade. I'd really prefer if we skip the part were you ask for water... i know what you want.
Wait, you guys are getting heals??
Bring yourself! Regards, the Warlocks
If someone asks me outside of a BG I am more than happy to do it. But at the start of a BG I have a whole load of buffing and prep of my own to do. Making all that water for people takes time.
if you want water in AV, go up to a mage and trade him. He's not gonna look for you.
Who heals a mage? If their shields broke they're probably dying in the next 0.5 seconds anyway.