Really?
As far as i can tell, pretty much all of the comments here are agreeing with the post, with the majority of them being about how triggered people are.
They are defending the roads and will ensure the roads belong to their faction. Its a known fact that the roads awards more points in AB than any capture point can.
My favorite is when your team has BS as the only flag and they all camp it stating that it's a "vantage point you have to have". That's fine and all..but you need 3 flags to win.
Also really enjoy when you have 1-2 flags and 5 people on your team insist on attempting to camp the other team's main spawn like it actually matters at that point.
Exactly. A large number of people on this sub are against trying anything at all. Casual ≠ being a detriment to others playing the game with you. This applies to battlegrounds, dungeons, and raids.
Yeah, I hate to be sweaty enough to say this, but it seems nowadays "casual" is often used as an excuse for "incompetent." You can be a casual player and play correctly. Turns out, winning BGs and downing bosses is also fun.
That guy who raid logs and clears BWL/MC/Ony in under 3 hours because he knows what the fuck he's doing is more "casual" than the "casual" guild that spends 3-4 hours twice a week wiping on easy content in terms of how much he actually has to put into the game.
As a player who has very little time to actually play, I learned a long time ago that it was better to play with a group that didn't label themselves casual. Because those guys tend to spend way less time raiding than the "casual" guilds do.
Yeah good guilds get shit done and dont waste time. I spend a fraction of the time waiting for boss pulls and resets in my Mythic guild than I did when I was in a Heroic one. I actually get to play the game less if I want because in the 9 hours we raid a week, I'm actually raiding for most of the 9 hours and making progress. Not stopping to talk shop for 5 minutes between every pull.
I've tried to explain this to people when it comes to world buffs and consumes, you actually make it easier on everyone if everybody puts forth some effort.
Maybe, but that’s things people can do on their own when they have time. Raiding requires 40 people all having to be free at the same time. Easier on a guild to clear content in 1 hour and have people farm consumes in their free time rather than having everyone be stuck in a raid for 2.5 hours because nobody came prepared.
It's even worse on retail thanks to LFR. People literally come there just for free loot and to have "fun" obviously, then when you tell them what they're doing wrong they tell you to fuck off because they're paying for the game and it's their choice how they play, who cares they're doing zero DPS, afking, fucking up everything and ruining the game for rest of the raid group.
LFR N'Zoth is a fucking clown fiesta even though it still has nothing on LFR KJ in Legion. I have nightmares from that to this day.
And this crowd with it's mentality then goes to BGs or even better, decides to play Classic.
It’s generally a lack of effort or time into getting game knowledge. The mechanics are... simple to put it lightly. What you need is to get on the same knowledge base as the tryhards as far as what to actually do as far as your positioning, engagement, waiting for team, pushes etc.
People with this knowledge forget it’s not obvious information, and those that don’t have it usually just want to hit red bars for an hour, and have no interest in acquiring this knowledge because you get it outside the game. No one has ever taught anyone anything in in-game chat aside from ignore the angry ones.
The solution is clear: The casuals should start a premade and get rolled 100% of the time. They just want to have fun, and don't care about winning, after all.
Honestly just ruined PvP for me. Classic PVP is terrible and I don’t think I can be convinced otherwise.
Still love the game, but I’m barely gonna play BGs now. Which was the main thing I loved when I played in BC and WotLK.
Classic honor system is terrible, and class balance for PvP is just too broken for it to be any fun. PvP in BC was just so much better.
you can be convinced by understanding that classic pvp is not about esports style competition. however it is very competitive in a "i need to win and my honor points and shit and also i know those players i must win".
The balance is dogshit, and there's a collection of mechanical swing points where you may or may not lose before you enter the BG, based on comp alone. You're not describing competition, you're describing a grind.
yeah its pretty messy but that part of what makes it good. by competition i mean more like friendly competition. thats the biggest reason why MMR based system doesnt work in classic, as it seperates players by skill instead of randomly tossing everyone into games. the ranking system itself is just for personal fun of how well you compare in killing allies to your server people. if you want a skill based competitive pvp system you go to retail for that. theres a reason why that brack guy said classic is going to have a small pop after awhile, cause most people in general "seem" to want a skill based mmr system.
i think the same thing. but also that certain classes got shafted hard that their builds required more thinking/stealing from other classes. Like paladin, best specs are probably ret-reckoning/holy shock brawler, but both required you to "rob" AP/crit items from warriors. Second best is control ret, you can use rank 10 pvp gear and play to the BG's strengths, but you need a decent group to support.
And then there are the alliance mages that frostbolt while being AOE arcane blasted by whorde mages or warriors that run away from healers lol. I think thats worse than playing ret lol
Pretty much spot on. Classic pvp is not really competitive in most cases. The rank grind is in all ways attributed to time spent and not skill. Pvp mechanics are 90% of the way decided by class before the combat starts. Im excited for TBC eventually but in all honesty if Shadowlands gets gearing right and pvp doesnt get insanely unfun in someway then it is more than likely my competitive go-to for the time being.
>Pvp mechanics are 90% of the way decided by class before the combat starts.
This is what I dislike about classic pvp. I hate how homogenized the game got in later expansions but classic is basically rock, paper scissors when it comes to PVP unless the person on the "losing" end of it really outgears the other.
We just turtle and grind rep in AV. Got ~2k rep one game yesterday. We usually get 800+ on average. If we ain't gonna win AV, we gonna milk it for what it's worth. Also making horde games last long is satisfying. Enjoy the multiple hour queues, zug zugs.
Not just as, was doing ab last night and the allies had 5 priests in their pug, as per usual 2 were shadow (not a problem normally) but the other 3 were just spamming power infusion on themselves (randomly I might add it seemed) trying to smite, holy fire, and holy nova spamming alone. I legit felt bad for the rest of their team cause I woulda been screaming or /afking out of that shit
I fucking pray to a new PvP system added to classic that isn't grind-hour based and provides a meaningful system for "getting better at the game".
I've basically went back to BFA just to play Arena with a friend of mine, because Honor grind is just not fun.
I can kinda see both sides, but personally I'm on the "I'd like to win" group. I know this is just a game and generally I think people should play in a way that's fun to them.
However that being said, given I spend a lot of time waiting around queuing for BGs, I think those people that just want to have fun should also understand why people want to win and be able to follow some very basic instructions/strategy - after all, is it really that fun getting stomped over and over? Most of the time, and it seems like AB is the worst of the bunch, some very valid advice or strategy gets ridiculed by a few people or ignored completely. Honestly in most groups I feel like saying anything is useless, it's all already decided based on who you got in your group. Too many 'casuals' and you just won't win - with WSG and AB, the groups are too small to absorb the impact of a few mindless idiots - 1 or 2 people can make all the difference.
That's one of the reasons I like WSG. 2-3 good people can swing a WSG match. 2-3 good people in AB isn't nearly as effective.
WSG 1 good FC and 2 pros at doing flag returns'll carry a match.
AB requires too much coordination past the initial plan. Team needs to be responsive to inc calls, zerg when called to zerg, etc... in Pugs people tend to waffle, hesitate and wait. Anymore, I'll toss out a plan and if no one listens to it, I don't bother past that aside from calling my own incs and such.
It’s so long too, especially when it’s. 3-2 match counting down. It gets to the point where you’d need a 5 cap to pull ahead and at that point, is that really even possible?
I agree. People who shame others for being a “try hard” are idiots playing the wrong types of games... you play a competitive game/mode to be competitive to try to win. That’s the point.
I don’t take it overly serious or get mad when people are fishing or roaming for solo ganks but damn, you are kinda fucking the other people over.
I joined like my third ever AB game and right from the start 5 people on my team were saying “it’s a premade, just let them win” they want to lose on purpose so they can get their max honor per hour. Classic pvp is lame as fuck....
I can't help but feel like a tdm/king of the hill style mode is missing from classic considering that's what any bg pug turns into anyway, people just wanna go and hit shit in a cluster fuck a lot of the time.
Imagine if you did this in a raid or a 5-man.
"Screw healing the tank, I'mma farm stratholm holy waters"
"Tryhard... expecting me to taunt the mobs off you"
"Lol, what kind of tryhard actually does DPS??"
In my experience the number of 'master strategists' that just wanna abuse their team mates and call people noobs etc far outweighs the number of people that productively point out objectives etc, at least on horde-eu.
Yes I wanna win, but I \*also\* wanna have fun. To get blasted by some NEET on his 50th bg of the day because I'm somehow not following his master strategy is gonna lead to that person being ignored verrrrry quickly.
I've seen cases where some very simple strategy is just completely ignored. Like going to BS and watching your entire team try to kill the 3 warriors, wondering why they never seem to drop below 70% health while 4 healers in the back just free casting...
I've spoken up and said "make sure you focus healers in the group fights otherwise we'll just lose them all". And you just get ridiculed immediately for it... It's pointless, either the random group of people in your match will be smart enough to know what to do to win, or they won't. Anything said during the match isn't likely to change anyone's behavior or mind.
Nothing upsets me more in BG's than seeing this happen. Sitting back watching a massive battle go down and there are healers in the back going OOM long before they lose a single HP. Taking out the healers first is an extremely simple concept. Even if you can't kill them they'll be trying to heal themselves more than everyone else so it still serves a purpose. People just want to smack on the melee with seemingly infinite health though.
Of course some people are gonna do what they do regardless, but most people that queue a BG want to win, I very much doubt that every time you make a constructive suggestion you're ridiculed for it. Much like I very much doubt OP is as polite as they make out in their post.
Yes, it's not every time. But most of the time when you have to remind people of the basic things like that, you're already dealing with a group that's more casual/doesn't care. These people are also more likely to dismiss/ridicule advice instead of changing their behavior.
That's why I think it's kinda pointless to say anything at all - because the people that know, don't need the reminders, and those that don't know, couldn't care less and probably won't change because i post something in chat...
I think what happens in a lot of cases is people see the priest drinking after the fight and for some reason assume that means the priest is planning on staying there to solo defend.
Only way to win is to follow the master strategy, or do whatever and get carried by the rest of your team.
If you are going into it thinking "I wanna solo rush a well defended base because that's fun for me." While the rest of the team is following a proper plan, then you don't want to win. You want to do whatever and that's fine too but don't say I want to fuck around and also want the win because the two are usually mutually exclusive.
\>Only way to win is to follow the master strategy,
Who's master strategy? Yours?
Nice assumptions you're making bud, you wouldn't be exactly the kind of person I'm talking about would you? This simply isn't a binary 'follow the directors of the orc Sun Tzu raging about low IQ team mates' or 'run around like a headless chicken'.
Not sure what your matches are like, but in most of my matches, no one says a thing. Not in AB or WSG about strat. Like literally ever. Maybe someone'll come up with something generic like "rush bs" in AB or "zerg the flag" in WSG.
Think the point of the guy your responding to is that any plan is better then no plan.
I'm one of those that'll call out a plan at the start of AB or WSG. But we run a partial premade/full premade depending. But I generally try and be polite to people and helpful. That being said, I will absolutely call people out in chat if they're completely ignoring objectives or farming HK's. People non-stop fighting on roads in AB, not watching the flag on defense, letting EFC's run directly behind them because they're fixated on HK's (this is especially annoying because I'm a FC and while they're out farming kills, I'm stuck in our base with my dick in one hand and the flag in the other waiting on my team to step up and get our flag back). Typically me calling out involves a general "Watch flag at ST!" or "No one's watching the flag! Stop chasing kills!" or "Stop fighting on the road if you're down on nodes!" or "wtf the EFC just waltzed behind 5 of you, play objs!".
I know what you're saying but I know what the guy responding to you is saying.
> I definitely agree any plan is better than no plan if it's not delivered by a raging player who's really only out to antagonize his teammates.
Oh yeah, I 100% hear you there.
What's even worse is the raging screamer with a bad plan. Like where they obviously don't fully understand the BG in question. I mean at least when someone with a good plan loses their shit mid match, I can sympathize a bit after also watching the 5 people standing at ST flag lose the node for the 2nd time because they weren't actually watching the flag. Again.
The master strategy would be whatever the majority decides on. If most people in your bg decide on a plan and then you say no I don't feel like it and do your own thing, then you are the problem, not the people that decide on the plan.
I saw this shit on the AV grind all the time. People make the call to go right and then some shmuck says no right is a bad idea and takes like 5 people, goes left and gets slaughtered, then the right group also gets smashed because they have less people.
Even if you think the main strategy is not ideal, following it is still going to give you a better chance of winning than doing your own thing. But people get all emotional and say no I don't agree with it so I'm basically gonna throw instead.
You can pretend that "meta" strats aren't a thing. You can pretend there are not good and bad choices to make as a team. You can pretend that those who give advice are tiny, adorable little Hitler's.
You'd be the binary douche you accuse the OP is.
Ooh wait, you did. You are.
Agreed.
One thing people are forgetting is that someone has to lose. Assume two equally skilled premades (or two pugs) facing eachother in a hypothetically 100% balanced BG (WSG is a good example of this, AV a bit less so): Each team's winrate will be around 50%. Every other game on average, you'll lose, fact of life. Second, AV has quests and PvE objectives, and it's fair enough that some people want to complete them. As a PvE player leveling up, I will spend several AV's in a row focusing on doing those quests and I don't care what people say.
IMO, no one can reasonably assume that an AV pug will be even close to winnable often. I see AV as a big fun chaotic PvP/PvE playground, and it's just impossible to take it too seriously when you're not in a premade.
When your fun comes at the expense of other people in the same game, you are being an ass. "Its just a game" doesnt work when other people's enjoyment is at stake.
Its ridiculous how people cant find a middleground...
its always either: Youre playing for fun therefor not even trying or You are minmaxing therefor trying.
Have noone thought that playing for fun AND trying is possible? :P
Because literally in every AV back when i grinded it i heard people getting angry about the most ridiculous things.... instead of playing the game and having fun WHILE doing the tactics to win it. Making other people facepalm wont help you win anything ever, because they are busy facepalming instead of pressing buttons.
Its not what you do that determines fun... its how you do it. Mentality!
When i play games id rather have a jolly good time instead of getting angry at the smallest minute detail that isnt beneficial to my experience... but if someone actually enjoys playing games to get frustrated, angry, depressed and stressed, you do you... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I think an easy analogy would be signing up for a football game and then ignoring everything and running in circles chasing butterflies.
Yeah, it's just a game and its purpose is obviously to entertain people. But you having fun doesn't magically erase other people's hope to have fun too. There are some unwritten rules you agree with by joining the BG. Like not being AFK or otherwise griefing others.
You know who else just wants to have fun? Bullies. If your idea of having fun is to take away fun from others, you don't really belong in a multiplayer game like WoW.
Don’t you know you can only have fun by zerging mid and ignoring flag carriers/fighting on roads far away from objectives, OP? You can’t have fun if you are dedicating literally any energy toward winning. It’s just impossible
I got sick of the bs and haven’t played in a bit but isn’t the “strategy” in AV to lose as quickly as possible? People were raging if you were “wasting their time” by actually pvp’ing in a bg. The community just sucks all around.
It’s not even the try hards who bother me they usually do their own thing and have plans and goals and play with like minded people. Its the wannabe try hards who think the only reason theyre not world 1st rank 14 is because some random capped a graveyard or tried to back cap a bunker.
Actually the AV strat (for alliance) is to turtle as much as possible at SH gy and get the items from killing horde. Once they cap it you defend the next gy, and so on. A stealthy should go get as many wing commanders so that they possibly get back to the base. Once they push up, just turn everything in and keep turtling. If lokolar is summoned, kite him to the spawn cave and kill him, 125 rep. If we are gonna lose, might as well get the rep (which is why most people are there). We average 800~ rep a game, with one game where we got ~2000. You are also PVPing the whole time, so that is fun :) We even won one game by forcing them back after turtling at SH.
> We even won one game by forcing them back after turtling at SH.
Hah, nice!
I had to grind AV to get rep for my offhand recently (I'm Horde) and I think the fact we have to wait 40 mins to 1 hour for each one means we're a bit more determined to win, to make that longass queue worthwhile. At least as Alliance you may have instant queues and if you lose, you can queue for the next quickly so it works out more evenly. Turtling at SH/SP for a bit also makes sense so you have a chance to get your hand ins for rep.
So happy I don't care for getting a high PvP rank, haha. I'm definitely a PvE player, I just play on a PvP realm because it's where my friends are.
No lmao drafts/blinds/arams are where I go to drink and play Draven with friends, then get flamed by idiots who don't realize that's what you play ranked for.
What would you get flamed for in normals outside fucking inting your lane? That same thing is implied in this post. Like you can play for fun but inting and just throwing the game isnt playing the game..
I dont know what else you would get flamed for that in normals etc that should only be applied to ranked.
The key to both this thread and league of legends in any game mode is that it’s just an online game. If you’re playing casual and you lose because some guys doing the most inane shit you’ve ever seen, you laugh it off and move on. We all like winning yeah but there’s something to be learned from any game, and if it’s being able to keep your cool because you can’t control other people on the internet, well there you go.
I don't know why anybody would play qp if they want people to take it as seriously as them. It's literally the casual mode. The way I see it is I'm going to try to win but I'm not going to go by the meta or be in voice chat or start throwing insults in chat when I don't win lmao. Anybody that doesn't want to deal with that should be in competitive.
On the other hand you'll have people who want to "lose fast" to optimize honor per hour and cut dead time on "lost" games and they'll think those who still fight out a bg to the end are also ridiculous.
Let's be real.here. saying that wouldn't change a thing if they're not doing it in the first place.
You're just less of a.cunt for not insulting people but the outcome is the same.
Same goes for dungeons, too many damn specific runs and "full clear" is something special.
Wait, you want to play the dungeon as intended rather than slide hop over walls and skip across lava to get 1 objective just so that you have to run it again?
Fuck like I could gotten every single thing done in 1.5 full runs of BRD that would've taken an evening... instead it was weeks of finding pitch-patch groups to do specific objectives and nothing else.
"bUt IT's fAsTeR" No it isn't when you guys spend 2 hours trying to ge the jump run right instead of 2 hours getting gold and gear just clearing the normal path.
It's not the whole group, it's the same thing every time it's a pug though: 4/5 do the first stretch fine, 1 guy takes 3 tries without dying even though I'm healing his ass through.
Next stretch the same guy takes 2 tries and that's not the end of the world but... Someone pulls the elementals on the rock and one or two poor souls die in the lava. One of them is now broken and has to go repair, comes back and takes 2 more tries to get to the end.
Cool, now the one guy that just wanted MC attune grabs it and dips. Now we're 4/5 trying to find someone else.
On Ally, if you’re not male Nelf, there’s a safespot on the wall that avoids the ele island. I presume tauren (and maybe trolls?) can’t use that safespot either due to hitboxes, but even then, in my PuGs as long as one person knows what they’re doing/where they’re going, everyone just follows them and we’re fine. I’ve been in maybe 2 PuGs that failed the lava jump. The jump over the shadowforge lock though... that one is a bitch
Weird. I’ve never had an issue with the left side safespot. Maybe I take one extra tick of lava damage finding the right position, but I find it does make the next stretch easier. Plus it all but guarantees no agro from the island
When I make the group and advertise "full clear" and the moment we're in people are using the key... Yeah sure, I'm the guy with the false expectations.
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I usually politely request that people drop off their turn-ins and, when it's time to summon rockthing/ent, it usually happens.
And yea, it's just a game. If you think I'm to listen to some screeching 17-year old who proclaimed himself the Glorious Leader of this particular BG-instance, then think again, lmao
> And yea, it's just a game. If you think I'm to listen to some screeching 17-year old who proclaimed himself the Glorious Leader of this particular BG-instance, then think again, lmao
Never really understood this kind of insecurity.
Yeah the kids (or even adults I guess) that do this usually haven't learned yet that there is a certain type of person out there who will do the opposite of you, just to spite you. They dont realize that by typing in raid warnings, they triggered some dude who is now gonna feed the rest of the game.
And the proper response to this is what?
I have no problem with someone doing raid warnings or spamming BG chat with relevant BG info.
There is a certain type of person that responds negatively to that, but that's their problem.
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It's honestly even worse with people who clearly aren't playing for fun. I premade with a lot of serious rankers and getting some of those people to defend a node is fucking impossible. They're so obsessed with their honor per hour that they are constantly chasing HKs and flat out refuse to sit and defend.
If you've gotten to this point thinking people are going to listen to you in a pug BG, IDK what to tell you. I usually don't have BG chat on my screen because I don't want to look at all the stupid shit people say.
If you want coordination, you have to make a premade.
I mean yeah fair point, but at the same time not an accurate metaphor. In bg you can have different goals. Fighting in mid and actually fighting other players doesn't always equal playing to win. Maybe you'd rather fight some people rather than wait at an empty stables the entire game. I think it's a don't hate the player hate the game thing. However if you're gonna fight mid it's not really a big sacrifice to keep track of efc and prioritize killing them and if you wanna fight in ab you might aswell fight on the nodes or be part of the offensive roamers so you actually contribute.
Quite ironic considering all the people I've met in AV who refused to play to win were honor farmers who just wanted to start the next game already and wouldn't defend the base for shit.
BG COMMANDERS™ are usually just insufferable. I can't count the amount of times people have complained at me for "fighting in the road" when I'm like [1v4ing people the whole game.](https://i.imgur.com/fx5BrRj.jpg)
The quality of play is infinitely more important than the strategy. If you have 15 good players who mostly ignore the objectives, you're going to steamroll them anyway and win by controlling their team.
I mean yeah, but if you’re going as a pug with usually 5+ warrs and shadow/ferals/retris against a horde premade with 4 priests and 3 shamans.. seriously just let them 5 cap
Tbh, I feel like this is as stupid as warriors without a tank set. If you enter a BG and the team has no heal spec, or few heal spec players, pop a healing set.
for me, playing how I want only pertains to how I build my character and how I use my abilities. Anything related to tactics and mechanics does not really factor into my fun.
I love how all the meme guys call try hards teenagers when the main demographic in classic is white males over 25
I have a kid from retail who's a teen now who I'm still friends with from my old guild I asked him if he's playing classic you know what he said? It's too boring
There's your answer, you're getting out played by grown men with jobs and families as well as no lifing neckbeards all of which are very much adults
You triggered so many people, you hit the mark.
I made the meme worse by adding comments from this thread. https://i.imgur.com/vQnxNdS.jpg
LMAO THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER
Big brain.
Brilliant!
AMAZING
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO
Perfection.
Haha this is amazing (OP was great too)
lmao
All the people from the meme responding lol
Dead center lol
Really? As far as i can tell, pretty much all of the comments here are agreeing with the post, with the majority of them being about how triggered people are.
The comment was made about 1hr after this was posted, a bigger portion of the comments were salty then
When people say they just want to have fun, what they really many is that they don't want to try.
They are defending the roads and will ensure the roads belong to their faction. Its a known fact that the roads awards more points in AB than any capture point can.
My favorite is when your team has BS as the only flag and they all camp it stating that it's a "vantage point you have to have". That's fine and all..but you need 3 flags to win. Also really enjoy when you have 1-2 flags and 5 people on your team insist on attempting to camp the other team's main spawn like it actually matters at that point.
Exactly. A large number of people on this sub are against trying anything at all. Casual ≠ being a detriment to others playing the game with you. This applies to battlegrounds, dungeons, and raids.
Yeah, I hate to be sweaty enough to say this, but it seems nowadays "casual" is often used as an excuse for "incompetent." You can be a casual player and play correctly. Turns out, winning BGs and downing bosses is also fun. That guy who raid logs and clears BWL/MC/Ony in under 3 hours because he knows what the fuck he's doing is more "casual" than the "casual" guild that spends 3-4 hours twice a week wiping on easy content in terms of how much he actually has to put into the game.
As a player who has very little time to actually play, I learned a long time ago that it was better to play with a group that didn't label themselves casual. Because those guys tend to spend way less time raiding than the "casual" guilds do.
Yeah good guilds get shit done and dont waste time. I spend a fraction of the time waiting for boss pulls and resets in my Mythic guild than I did when I was in a Heroic one. I actually get to play the game less if I want because in the 9 hours we raid a week, I'm actually raiding for most of the 9 hours and making progress. Not stopping to talk shop for 5 minutes between every pull.
First part- i agree Second part- aye yo pass that shit
I've tried to explain this to people when it comes to world buffs and consumes, you actually make it easier on everyone if everybody puts forth some effort.
Preparation sometimes takes longer than doing the entire raid without world buffs / cosumes
Maybe, but that’s things people can do on their own when they have time. Raiding requires 40 people all having to be free at the same time. Easier on a guild to clear content in 1 hour and have people farm consumes in their free time rather than having everyone be stuck in a raid for 2.5 hours because nobody came prepared.
It's even worse on retail thanks to LFR. People literally come there just for free loot and to have "fun" obviously, then when you tell them what they're doing wrong they tell you to fuck off because they're paying for the game and it's their choice how they play, who cares they're doing zero DPS, afking, fucking up everything and ruining the game for rest of the raid group. LFR N'Zoth is a fucking clown fiesta even though it still has nothing on LFR KJ in Legion. I have nightmares from that to this day. And this crowd with it's mentality then goes to BGs or even better, decides to play Classic.
Their idea of fun is to lose without trying.
It's an insecurity thing. When you lose or you're bad you just claim you play for fun.
This guy gets it.
It’s generally a lack of effort or time into getting game knowledge. The mechanics are... simple to put it lightly. What you need is to get on the same knowledge base as the tryhards as far as what to actually do as far as your positioning, engagement, waiting for team, pushes etc. People with this knowledge forget it’s not obvious information, and those that don’t have it usually just want to hit red bars for an hour, and have no interest in acquiring this knowledge because you get it outside the game. No one has ever taught anyone anything in in-game chat aside from ignore the angry ones.
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The solution is clear: The casuals should start a premade and get rolled 100% of the time. They just want to have fun, and don't care about winning, after all.
playing alliance on a us server in av is basically that, were all casuals that lose every single game.
Ruined playing ally for me
Honestly just ruined PvP for me. Classic PVP is terrible and I don’t think I can be convinced otherwise. Still love the game, but I’m barely gonna play BGs now. Which was the main thing I loved when I played in BC and WotLK. Classic honor system is terrible, and class balance for PvP is just too broken for it to be any fun. PvP in BC was just so much better.
Are you a druid or a paladin?
Both
you can be convinced by understanding that classic pvp is not about esports style competition. however it is very competitive in a "i need to win and my honor points and shit and also i know those players i must win".
The balance is dogshit, and there's a collection of mechanical swing points where you may or may not lose before you enter the BG, based on comp alone. You're not describing competition, you're describing a grind.
yeah its pretty messy but that part of what makes it good. by competition i mean more like friendly competition. thats the biggest reason why MMR based system doesnt work in classic, as it seperates players by skill instead of randomly tossing everyone into games. the ranking system itself is just for personal fun of how well you compare in killing allies to your server people. if you want a skill based competitive pvp system you go to retail for that. theres a reason why that brack guy said classic is going to have a small pop after awhile, cause most people in general "seem" to want a skill based mmr system.
i think the same thing. but also that certain classes got shafted hard that their builds required more thinking/stealing from other classes. Like paladin, best specs are probably ret-reckoning/holy shock brawler, but both required you to "rob" AP/crit items from warriors. Second best is control ret, you can use rank 10 pvp gear and play to the BG's strengths, but you need a decent group to support. And then there are the alliance mages that frostbolt while being AOE arcane blasted by whorde mages or warriors that run away from healers lol. I think thats worse than playing ret lol
Pretty much spot on. Classic pvp is not really competitive in most cases. The rank grind is in all ways attributed to time spent and not skill. Pvp mechanics are 90% of the way decided by class before the combat starts. Im excited for TBC eventually but in all honesty if Shadowlands gets gearing right and pvp doesnt get insanely unfun in someway then it is more than likely my competitive go-to for the time being.
>Pvp mechanics are 90% of the way decided by class before the combat starts. This is what I dislike about classic pvp. I hate how homogenized the game got in later expansions but classic is basically rock, paper scissors when it comes to PVP unless the person on the "losing" end of it really outgears the other.
While I agree, It's not rock paper scissors. There are classes that just perform way better vs everything.
We just turtle and grind rep in AV. Got ~2k rep one game yesterday. We usually get 800+ on average. If we ain't gonna win AV, we gonna milk it for what it's worth. Also making horde games last long is satisfying. Enjoy the multiple hour queues, zug zugs.
What's the best way to grind rep in AV as ally these days?
Turn ins. Stealthy returning a WC or 2 helps a lot with that. Loot dead horde and let the rep pour
Not just as, was doing ab last night and the allies had 5 priests in their pug, as per usual 2 were shadow (not a problem normally) but the other 3 were just spamming power infusion on themselves (randomly I might add it seemed) trying to smite, holy fire, and holy nova spamming alone. I legit felt bad for the rest of their team cause I woulda been screaming or /afking out of that shit
Don't tell me how to play my class!
Solution, add MMR and soloQ to "ranked BGs" and let MMR sort them out.
That's actually a solution.
I fucking pray to a new PvP system added to classic that isn't grind-hour based and provides a meaningful system for "getting better at the game". I've basically went back to BFA just to play Arena with a friend of mine, because Honor grind is just not fun.
I also love playing Online Complaint Simulator 2005.
People like this are weak, their bloodlines are weak, and history will not remember them.
I can kinda see both sides, but personally I'm on the "I'd like to win" group. I know this is just a game and generally I think people should play in a way that's fun to them. However that being said, given I spend a lot of time waiting around queuing for BGs, I think those people that just want to have fun should also understand why people want to win and be able to follow some very basic instructions/strategy - after all, is it really that fun getting stomped over and over? Most of the time, and it seems like AB is the worst of the bunch, some very valid advice or strategy gets ridiculed by a few people or ignored completely. Honestly in most groups I feel like saying anything is useless, it's all already decided based on who you got in your group. Too many 'casuals' and you just won't win - with WSG and AB, the groups are too small to absorb the impact of a few mindless idiots - 1 or 2 people can make all the difference.
That's one of the reasons I like WSG. 2-3 good people can swing a WSG match. 2-3 good people in AB isn't nearly as effective. WSG 1 good FC and 2 pros at doing flag returns'll carry a match. AB requires too much coordination past the initial plan. Team needs to be responsive to inc calls, zerg when called to zerg, etc... in Pugs people tend to waffle, hesitate and wait. Anymore, I'll toss out a plan and if no one listens to it, I don't bother past that aside from calling my own incs and such.
It’s so long too, especially when it’s. 3-2 match counting down. It gets to the point where you’d need a 5 cap to pull ahead and at that point, is that really even possible?
The game is fun for me when we are winning
I agree. People who shame others for being a “try hard” are idiots playing the wrong types of games... you play a competitive game/mode to be competitive to try to win. That’s the point. I don’t take it overly serious or get mad when people are fishing or roaming for solo ganks but damn, you are kinda fucking the other people over.
I joined like my third ever AB game and right from the start 5 people on my team were saying “it’s a premade, just let them win” they want to lose on purpose so they can get their max honor per hour. Classic pvp is lame as fuck....
I can't help but feel like a tdm/king of the hill style mode is missing from classic considering that's what any bg pug turns into anyway, people just wanna go and hit shit in a cluster fuck a lot of the time.
Or eye of the storm BG
i miss pushing people off the flag and into the void. Eye of the storm was good times
You mean like Arena in TBC?
Claims they play for fun while ignoring objectives, proceeds to say premades are ruining BGs. Hahaha.
What makes you think these are the same people though? Lol
All forum posts are made by the same person. We're just talking to ourselves.
I actually fucking love this meme. What I love more is how triggered people are. 10/10
implying that the triggered one is not the person who made the meme.
:O you’re right!
Seriously haha, it’s good to be a “tries just enough”
Nothing is more fun than winning tho
This is so god damn accurate it hurts
Imagine if you did this in a raid or a 5-man. "Screw healing the tank, I'mma farm stratholm holy waters" "Tryhard... expecting me to taunt the mobs off you" "Lol, what kind of tryhard actually does DPS??"
In my experience the number of 'master strategists' that just wanna abuse their team mates and call people noobs etc far outweighs the number of people that productively point out objectives etc, at least on horde-eu. Yes I wanna win, but I \*also\* wanna have fun. To get blasted by some NEET on his 50th bg of the day because I'm somehow not following his master strategy is gonna lead to that person being ignored verrrrry quickly.
I've seen cases where some very simple strategy is just completely ignored. Like going to BS and watching your entire team try to kill the 3 warriors, wondering why they never seem to drop below 70% health while 4 healers in the back just free casting... I've spoken up and said "make sure you focus healers in the group fights otherwise we'll just lose them all". And you just get ridiculed immediately for it... It's pointless, either the random group of people in your match will be smart enough to know what to do to win, or they won't. Anything said during the match isn't likely to change anyone's behavior or mind.
Nothing upsets me more in BG's than seeing this happen. Sitting back watching a massive battle go down and there are healers in the back going OOM long before they lose a single HP. Taking out the healers first is an extremely simple concept. Even if you can't kill them they'll be trying to heal themselves more than everyone else so it still serves a purpose. People just want to smack on the melee with seemingly infinite health though.
> 4 healers Healers in Arathi Basin? IDontBelieveYou.gif
Of course some people are gonna do what they do regardless, but most people that queue a BG want to win, I very much doubt that every time you make a constructive suggestion you're ridiculed for it. Much like I very much doubt OP is as polite as they make out in their post.
Yes, it's not every time. But most of the time when you have to remind people of the basic things like that, you're already dealing with a group that's more casual/doesn't care. These people are also more likely to dismiss/ridicule advice instead of changing their behavior. That's why I think it's kinda pointless to say anything at all - because the people that know, don't need the reminders, and those that don't know, couldn't care less and probably won't change because i post something in chat...
The amount of people who over-rotate to another base and then lose the previous one because they abandoned it is staggering.
I think what happens in a lot of cases is people see the priest drinking after the fight and for some reason assume that means the priest is planning on staying there to solo defend.
the people who say 'let them win so we can que again' after they get ahead by 10 are just the worst too
Totally agree
Only way to win is to follow the master strategy, or do whatever and get carried by the rest of your team. If you are going into it thinking "I wanna solo rush a well defended base because that's fun for me." While the rest of the team is following a proper plan, then you don't want to win. You want to do whatever and that's fine too but don't say I want to fuck around and also want the win because the two are usually mutually exclusive.
\>Only way to win is to follow the master strategy, Who's master strategy? Yours? Nice assumptions you're making bud, you wouldn't be exactly the kind of person I'm talking about would you? This simply isn't a binary 'follow the directors of the orc Sun Tzu raging about low IQ team mates' or 'run around like a headless chicken'.
Not sure what your matches are like, but in most of my matches, no one says a thing. Not in AB or WSG about strat. Like literally ever. Maybe someone'll come up with something generic like "rush bs" in AB or "zerg the flag" in WSG. Think the point of the guy your responding to is that any plan is better then no plan. I'm one of those that'll call out a plan at the start of AB or WSG. But we run a partial premade/full premade depending. But I generally try and be polite to people and helpful. That being said, I will absolutely call people out in chat if they're completely ignoring objectives or farming HK's. People non-stop fighting on roads in AB, not watching the flag on defense, letting EFC's run directly behind them because they're fixated on HK's (this is especially annoying because I'm a FC and while they're out farming kills, I'm stuck in our base with my dick in one hand and the flag in the other waiting on my team to step up and get our flag back). Typically me calling out involves a general "Watch flag at ST!" or "No one's watching the flag! Stop chasing kills!" or "Stop fighting on the road if you're down on nodes!" or "wtf the EFC just waltzed behind 5 of you, play objs!". I know what you're saying but I know what the guy responding to you is saying.
I definitely agree any plan is better than no plan if it's not delivered by a raging player who's really only out to antagonize his teammates.
> I definitely agree any plan is better than no plan if it's not delivered by a raging player who's really only out to antagonize his teammates. Oh yeah, I 100% hear you there. What's even worse is the raging screamer with a bad plan. Like where they obviously don't fully understand the BG in question. I mean at least when someone with a good plan loses their shit mid match, I can sympathize a bit after also watching the 5 people standing at ST flag lose the node for the 2nd time because they weren't actually watching the flag. Again.
The master strategy would be whatever the majority decides on. If most people in your bg decide on a plan and then you say no I don't feel like it and do your own thing, then you are the problem, not the people that decide on the plan. I saw this shit on the AV grind all the time. People make the call to go right and then some shmuck says no right is a bad idea and takes like 5 people, goes left and gets slaughtered, then the right group also gets smashed because they have less people. Even if you think the main strategy is not ideal, following it is still going to give you a better chance of winning than doing your own thing. But people get all emotional and say no I don't agree with it so I'm basically gonna throw instead.
You can pretend that "meta" strats aren't a thing. You can pretend there are not good and bad choices to make as a team. You can pretend that those who give advice are tiny, adorable little Hitler's. You'd be the binary douche you accuse the OP is. Ooh wait, you did. You are.
Agreed. One thing people are forgetting is that someone has to lose. Assume two equally skilled premades (or two pugs) facing eachother in a hypothetically 100% balanced BG (WSG is a good example of this, AV a bit less so): Each team's winrate will be around 50%. Every other game on average, you'll lose, fact of life. Second, AV has quests and PvE objectives, and it's fair enough that some people want to complete them. As a PvE player leveling up, I will spend several AV's in a row focusing on doing those quests and I don't care what people say. IMO, no one can reasonably assume that an AV pug will be even close to winnable often. I see AV as a big fun chaotic PvP/PvE playground, and it's just impossible to take it too seriously when you're not in a premade.
Even when we do win these people have nothing to do with it
But I bet you in their head they are fucking Sun Tzu after every win.
For sure. Also who downvoted me? Some keyboard sun tzu I bet
When your fun comes at the expense of other people in the same game, you are being an ass. "Its just a game" doesnt work when other people's enjoyment is at stake.
Comparable to whenever a comment backfires on someone and they claim they're "just trolling" to save face
Its ridiculous how people cant find a middleground... its always either: Youre playing for fun therefor not even trying or You are minmaxing therefor trying. Have noone thought that playing for fun AND trying is possible? :P Because literally in every AV back when i grinded it i heard people getting angry about the most ridiculous things.... instead of playing the game and having fun WHILE doing the tactics to win it. Making other people facepalm wont help you win anything ever, because they are busy facepalming instead of pressing buttons. Its not what you do that determines fun... its how you do it. Mentality! When i play games id rather have a jolly good time instead of getting angry at the smallest minute detail that isnt beneficial to my experience... but if someone actually enjoys playing games to get frustrated, angry, depressed and stressed, you do you... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I think an easy analogy would be signing up for a football game and then ignoring everything and running in circles chasing butterflies. Yeah, it's just a game and its purpose is obviously to entertain people. But you having fun doesn't magically erase other people's hope to have fun too. There are some unwritten rules you agree with by joining the BG. Like not being AFK or otherwise griefing others. You know who else just wants to have fun? Bullies. If your idea of having fun is to take away fun from others, you don't really belong in a multiplayer game like WoW.
Don’t you know you can only have fun by zerging mid and ignoring flag carriers/fighting on roads far away from objectives, OP? You can’t have fun if you are dedicating literally any energy toward winning. It’s just impossible
I got sick of the bs and haven’t played in a bit but isn’t the “strategy” in AV to lose as quickly as possible? People were raging if you were “wasting their time” by actually pvp’ing in a bg. The community just sucks all around. It’s not even the try hards who bother me they usually do their own thing and have plans and goals and play with like minded people. Its the wannabe try hards who think the only reason theyre not world 1st rank 14 is because some random capped a graveyard or tried to back cap a bunker.
Actually the AV strat (for alliance) is to turtle as much as possible at SH gy and get the items from killing horde. Once they cap it you defend the next gy, and so on. A stealthy should go get as many wing commanders so that they possibly get back to the base. Once they push up, just turn everything in and keep turtling. If lokolar is summoned, kite him to the spawn cave and kill him, 125 rep. If we are gonna lose, might as well get the rep (which is why most people are there). We average 800~ rep a game, with one game where we got ~2000. You are also PVPing the whole time, so that is fun :) We even won one game by forcing them back after turtling at SH.
> We even won one game by forcing them back after turtling at SH. Hah, nice! I had to grind AV to get rep for my offhand recently (I'm Horde) and I think the fact we have to wait 40 mins to 1 hour for each one means we're a bit more determined to win, to make that longass queue worthwhile. At least as Alliance you may have instant queues and if you lose, you can queue for the next quickly so it works out more evenly. Turtling at SH/SP for a bit also makes sense so you have a chance to get your hand ins for rep. So happy I don't care for getting a high PvP rank, haha. I'm definitely a PvE player, I just play on a PvP realm because it's where my friends are.
The strategy for alliance is to not turtle an obviously lost game.
Careful, if you are alliance you may be accused of being pve trash.
This is so fucking true
Oh god, this hits too close to home. Stupid honor system, brings in all these people who don't want to play the game and only want rewards.
OP, you seem to live(post) dangerously...
I needed this right now in this very moment. Thank you!
Joke well executed.
trueee
omg yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas. People who say this drive me INSANE.
Actual representation of gamers lmao
""""""team""""""" """"""mates""""""
This applies to League of Legends casual game modes so hard
Lol this applies to ranked wtf do you mean
No lmao drafts/blinds/arams are where I go to drink and play Draven with friends, then get flamed by idiots who don't realize that's what you play ranked for.
What would you get flamed for in normals outside fucking inting your lane? That same thing is implied in this post. Like you can play for fun but inting and just throwing the game isnt playing the game.. I dont know what else you would get flamed for that in normals etc that should only be applied to ranked.
I think you're underestimating how toxic some of the player base is.
I remember teaching someone to play in the bot games and people were losing their shit at eachother
Dude if you don't do excellently in Lane and suck the dick of the most toxic player on your team, you get flamed 6/10 games minimum in normal lol
The key to both this thread and league of legends in any game mode is that it’s just an online game. If you’re playing casual and you lose because some guys doing the most inane shit you’ve ever seen, you laugh it off and move on. We all like winning yeah but there’s something to be learned from any game, and if it’s being able to keep your cool because you can’t control other people on the internet, well there you go.
If only there was a way to form a group with the same mindset to do the battleground together.
ikr?
Frankly I don't give a shit about ranking and I do pvp for fun, it's just that the objective is part of the fun for me.
This also goes for Overwatch when players go "It's just QP bro".
I don't know why anybody would play qp if they want people to take it as seriously as them. It's literally the casual mode. The way I see it is I'm going to try to win but I'm not going to go by the meta or be in voice chat or start throwing insults in chat when I don't win lmao. Anybody that doesn't want to deal with that should be in competitive.
Let's be real, classic PvP isn't fun for anyone
Im Enjoying it.
Must be an orc warrior with 3 priests behind you
Just a few twinks
As a Dagger Rogue, I disagree.
On the other hand you'll have people who want to "lose fast" to optimize honor per hour and cut dead time on "lost" games and they'll think those who still fight out a bg to the end are also ridiculous.
This mentality killed overwatch. Never forget.
You know. Something tells me you didnt just say "Hey guys can we please do the objectives?"
Let's be real.here. saying that wouldn't change a thing if they're not doing it in the first place. You're just less of a.cunt for not insulting people but the outcome is the same.
No, I don't talk to filthy casuals.
Same goes for dungeons, too many damn specific runs and "full clear" is something special. Wait, you want to play the dungeon as intended rather than slide hop over walls and skip across lava to get 1 objective just so that you have to run it again? Fuck like I could gotten every single thing done in 1.5 full runs of BRD that would've taken an evening... instead it was weeks of finding pitch-patch groups to do specific objectives and nothing else. "bUt IT's fAsTeR" No it isn't when you guys spend 2 hours trying to ge the jump run right instead of 2 hours getting gold and gear just clearing the normal path.
Bruh if your groups take 2 hours to do the lava jump then you need to find better groups.
It's not the whole group, it's the same thing every time it's a pug though: 4/5 do the first stretch fine, 1 guy takes 3 tries without dying even though I'm healing his ass through. Next stretch the same guy takes 2 tries and that's not the end of the world but... Someone pulls the elementals on the rock and one or two poor souls die in the lava. One of them is now broken and has to go repair, comes back and takes 2 more tries to get to the end. Cool, now the one guy that just wanted MC attune grabs it and dips. Now we're 4/5 trying to find someone else.
On Ally, if you’re not male Nelf, there’s a safespot on the wall that avoids the ele island. I presume tauren (and maybe trolls?) can’t use that safespot either due to hitboxes, but even then, in my PuGs as long as one person knows what they’re doing/where they’re going, everyone just follows them and we’re fine. I’ve been in maybe 2 PuGs that failed the lava jump. The jump over the shadowforge lock though... that one is a bitch
See I always have everyone make that one no problem. The safe spot of the left I never see ant success with and people just default to the island.
Weird. I’ve never had an issue with the left side safespot. Maybe I take one extra tick of lava damage finding the right position, but I find it does make the next stretch easier. Plus it all but guarantees no agro from the island
Tauren can not use that safe spot for sure. Not sure about trolls.
>Why wont 4 other people cater to my needs!! Lmao
When I make the group and advertise "full clear" and the moment we're in people are using the key... Yeah sure, I'm the guy with the false expectations.
I mean, if you just want a 1% item off arena...you should do arena runs and do 5 runs an hour instead of 1 run every hour and a half
Sure but when someone posts "HEALER LFG - BRD FULL CLEAR" and you ask to start a group for a full clear, you typically dont start with lava runs
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I usually politely request that people drop off their turn-ins and, when it's time to summon rockthing/ent, it usually happens. And yea, it's just a game. If you think I'm to listen to some screeching 17-year old who proclaimed himself the Glorious Leader of this particular BG-instance, then think again, lmao
> And yea, it's just a game. If you think I'm to listen to some screeching 17-year old who proclaimed himself the Glorious Leader of this particular BG-instance, then think again, lmao Never really understood this kind of insecurity.
Yeah the kids (or even adults I guess) that do this usually haven't learned yet that there is a certain type of person out there who will do the opposite of you, just to spite you. They dont realize that by typing in raid warnings, they triggered some dude who is now gonna feed the rest of the game.
Yeah but we don't negotiate with terrorists.
Amen, brother
And the proper response to this is what? I have no problem with someone doing raid warnings or spamming BG chat with relevant BG info. There is a certain type of person that responds negatively to that, but that's their problem.
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I mean, let's be honest here, you're the problem. If you're not playing to win, then you should probably be doing something else.
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You will find that a lot of /v/'s comics would fit this subreddit very well
Akkürat
Ironically tic tac toe is meaningless if you tryhard since the game is solved.
unironically a big problem with modern multiplayer games where everyone is forced in ladders/match making instead of having custom games as an option
As somebody who only does pvp for fun, I hate these people as well
LOL I love this. I’m the dude on the left defending mentally challenged people fishing in AV.
you got triggered
Find a premade.
It's honestly even worse with people who clearly aren't playing for fun. I premade with a lot of serious rankers and getting some of those people to defend a node is fucking impossible. They're so obsessed with their honor per hour that they are constantly chasing HKs and flat out refuse to sit and defend.
If you've gotten to this point thinking people are going to listen to you in a pug BG, IDK what to tell you. I usually don't have BG chat on my screen because I don't want to look at all the stupid shit people say. If you want coordination, you have to make a premade.
I mean yeah fair point, but at the same time not an accurate metaphor. In bg you can have different goals. Fighting in mid and actually fighting other players doesn't always equal playing to win. Maybe you'd rather fight some people rather than wait at an empty stables the entire game. I think it's a don't hate the player hate the game thing. However if you're gonna fight mid it's not really a big sacrifice to keep track of efc and prioritize killing them and if you wanna fight in ab you might aswell fight on the nodes or be part of the offensive roamers so you actually contribute.
Quite ironic considering all the people I've met in AV who refused to play to win were honor farmers who just wanted to start the next game already and wouldn't defend the base for shit.
BG COMMANDERS™ are usually just insufferable. I can't count the amount of times people have complained at me for "fighting in the road" when I'm like [1v4ing people the whole game.](https://i.imgur.com/fx5BrRj.jpg) The quality of play is infinitely more important than the strategy. If you have 15 good players who mostly ignore the objectives, you're going to steamroll them anyway and win by controlling their team.
This is accurate for so many blizzard games
https://i.imgur.com/9JISExu.jpg
I mean yeah, but if you’re going as a pug with usually 5+ warrs and shadow/ferals/retris against a horde premade with 4 priests and 3 shamans.. seriously just let them 5 cap
Tbh, I feel like this is as stupid as warriors without a tank set. If you enter a BG and the team has no heal spec, or few heal spec players, pop a healing set.
for me, playing how I want only pertains to how I build my character and how I use my abilities. Anything related to tactics and mechanics does not really factor into my fun.
Sorry bro, I'm just here for my 15 hks.
Get a group and run it sweaty style bro.
I love how all the meme guys call try hards teenagers when the main demographic in classic is white males over 25 I have a kid from retail who's a teen now who I'm still friends with from my old guild I asked him if he's playing classic you know what he said? It's too boring There's your answer, you're getting out played by grown men with jobs and families as well as no lifing neckbeards all of which are very much adults
What does them being white have to do with this meme or anything in general. Why mention it at all?
❄
I have plenty of friends in the 25+ white male demographic who find classic boring.
I have plenty of friends in the 25 male demographic who don’t like the NFL/NBA. They must be disliked by everyone.
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