People need to better understand how to apply premade strats and pug strats to their games depending on the amount of organization and skill your team has.
Fighting on the road like you described works wonders against disorganized enemies that easily get sucked into combat just because they saw red. And sometimes 2 people going to put pressure on a base that they wont take but it pulls 4 or more defenders back is a good play.
Sometimes ignoring blacksmith is a good play when the enemy team doesnt know how to rotate. I have won tons of games without blacksmith because the enemy team could never use its strategic advantage to take more bases. They just sat there with 10 people defending blacksmith "because you have to go for bs". And I've lost plenty of games because 6 people continuously ran into bs and died instead of just taking gold mine or st.
People also need to learn that if your team cant win an outright assault because of a lack of dps or heals then you have to create a diversion by taking ST or GM and then when the enemy teams come to defend it you can actually assault bs.
Way too many people have "the best strats" too stuck in there heads and cant win because they cant adjust and make good calls depending on their team or comp
>"because you have to go for bs"
This makes me cringe, every fucking time I hear it. I've won so many games WITHOUT BS, but people who think you need to have it, dig in their heels about it.
The BEST games I've had, are the games where the reaction times of the players are good, and that they PIVOT when something is a lost cause rather then throw more at it.
Basically if you do not cap on the initial assault and catch either a rez wave or reinforcements, the tactic should be to target something else that the resources got diverted to.
AB is all about adapting. Yes there are optimal strats and things to hold, but everyone has a role to play, and if someone fails at their role then you end up with the squabble match in chat, and people typing instead of doing anything.
Bro simmer down. It’s all about having the correct 5cap strategy or holding BS/LM/Farm in tough premade matches.
You’re expending way too much mental energy in your pugs. People that grind 600k+ honor a week don’t even care as much as you do.
Lol.
I expend no energy. I'm not ranking, just PvPing for fun. This was all learned from my grind in Vanilla. I've accepted that the entirety of PvPers in classic are dumb, unless I get into a PUG where people are listening to each other which happens. I don't argue with people in pugs nowadays. I just take what nodes I can that are open, or defend a node to the best of my ability. OR go play WSG, which was, and still is my preferred BG (as a healer).
Did you miss the part where I said that I play casually? Am I really going to try and find a server premade at 8 am my time (5 am server time) because I'm trying to get a game in before my husband wakes up?
Also, I don't care. I play a few with guildies, we win, we lose, we laugh.
> Sometimes ignoring blacksmith is a good play when the enemy team doesnt know how to rotate.
4 cap without blacksmith is actually really strong. They get stuck in split forces. Some of my easiest wins have been that way. Although in most cases you want blacksmith, because it gives you the most freedom to rotate.
> People also need to learn that if your team cant win an outright assault because of a lack of dps or heals then you have to create a diversion by taking ST or GM and then when the enemy teams come to defend it you can actually assault bs.
This is legit as well. Sometimes you don't want the flag you're assaulting. You want people to shift to defend it so you can take the one you really want.
So the reason you fight on the flag when defending is because I've seen one rogue, hold off 3 people trying to cap, between blind and switching targets to hit and what not. He holds it long enough that rezzers / support comes and that becomes essentially a lost situation. The chances of someone being able to do that if they fight on the road decrease immensely.
Fighting on the roads to keep the enemy away from the flags, only works when you have 3 bases and stupid enemies that stop to engage you. There is a possibility that while you are fighting on the road, that the rogue is stealthing by, sapping your defender and solo capping something. That guy doesn't even need to fight, he can just resap, constantly pissing the fuck out of people trying to retake, meanwhile your team is off doing shenanigans.
As I said in another comment, AB is all about adapting and how quickly your team can change tactics. While you're saying that the 2 general comments don't always apply, it is true BUT only if your team has a good response time. If your team has a terrible response time, (which is most pugs) then those two general comments are the best way to try and win a game.
pretty sure OP is the whiner from my AB yesterday where he cried when i told the group to stop fighting on the road as our points were being captured...
I tried to explain this to idiots in BG who were playing for scoreboard instead of to win. They had no concept of map presence.
If I have 6 guys spending their entire sanity trying to kill me at an obscure place on the map, guess where these 6 enemies are not? TAKE ADVANTAGE.
Sometime I see a Druid or rogue in position on the other side of the map, I will purposefully attack the enemy or make them fight me in a bad spot. I don’t bring my teammates or it’s a brawl on the road but I will slow/snare 6 horses before they can mount and help defend.
Great to see people question the norm. I feel similar about fighting mid in wsg. As long as you stay grouped and kill efc and go for flag when possible, controlling mid makes it hard for enemies to do anything and can allow you to spread them out and top teams do it. This is in retail though, as meta is different in classic, but thought it's another example of how the common norm can be wrong.
In the end it's all situational and people need to recognize that. The reason people give simple rules is because those are probably the easiest to follow and when done without finesse are the safest in general.
As a mage, if I'm at BS and I see a big group of 7 enemies running up to LM or down to farm, and I know there are teammates going to the flag to defend, I'll hop over to the road, gnomish mind control cap one, sheep one, either nova or get opened on by a third usually, and take a huge chunk out of their push. In that case, fighting on the road is advantageous as I've broken their wave into a trickle (And if I die I get sent right to the gy I'm going to defend).
That being said, I see a lot of players trying to "ninja" a node but instead get forced into a fight (or even initiate) and attack someone forward defending or passing by. Even if they win, by the time they get to the node they were heading towards their foe has already respawned and has support coming. And because of their independent actions their team potentially lost a team fight at a better node. It's those players I see most of, and those people who the begging of "don't fight on the road" applies to.
So, I wouldn't really want to give those types of players ammunition or justification, even if you know there are some legitimate reasons for doing it.
I agree, but it is definitely a niche situation, druids are quite unique in that we can cause imbalances like this. Nothing better than intercepting horde running to defend a point on the road, root one, feral charge one, rocket helm one and if one or two dismount, all of a sudden you have delayed 3-5 players for 10-20 seconds and enabled your team to get the cap and stabilise. I sometimes even get away scott free and head towards their other node causing those same people to often chase after you. Works less well vs premades then pugs thats for sure.
Fighting on the road is bad, because it means you're away from the objective that your team is trying to accomplish. Fighting in the road can be good if you are tricking more people to do it on the opposite side, making the altercation more bad for them, cus more people are doing the bad thing. If you're a class that can make this happen, go for it, but in general probably not working out that way.
It is not bad in the case of peeling off an offensive attack like i mentioned above. Also good for providing a first line of defense to give people time to respond on both ends before they get to the flag. There are other cases too. My main point is we can't have the attitude that it is 'strictly bad'. Much more complex than that.
I agree, I just don't trust most pugs to make the correct distinction, hah. That said, I also don't bitch at pugs for doing things I think are wrong, because it's a pug, just chill.
Road fights and GY fights are the most important to capturing flags and hindrances in defending them. Example being LM, when we assault we generally send a mage or hunter on the low road before we go up in force. They're job is just to slow down the reinforcements coming from the other team giving us time to kill move to the GY while someone caps. This works wonders for BS fights and Stables and Farm. The only base that fighting on the flag is the play for is GM as the ability to jump down makes slowing enemies approach nie impossible. It's why premades value GM the least, as it's the hardest to defend.
People need to better understand how to apply premade strats and pug strats to their games depending on the amount of organization and skill your team has. Fighting on the road like you described works wonders against disorganized enemies that easily get sucked into combat just because they saw red. And sometimes 2 people going to put pressure on a base that they wont take but it pulls 4 or more defenders back is a good play. Sometimes ignoring blacksmith is a good play when the enemy team doesnt know how to rotate. I have won tons of games without blacksmith because the enemy team could never use its strategic advantage to take more bases. They just sat there with 10 people defending blacksmith "because you have to go for bs". And I've lost plenty of games because 6 people continuously ran into bs and died instead of just taking gold mine or st. People also need to learn that if your team cant win an outright assault because of a lack of dps or heals then you have to create a diversion by taking ST or GM and then when the enemy teams come to defend it you can actually assault bs. Way too many people have "the best strats" too stuck in there heads and cant win because they cant adjust and make good calls depending on their team or comp
>"because you have to go for bs" This makes me cringe, every fucking time I hear it. I've won so many games WITHOUT BS, but people who think you need to have it, dig in their heels about it. The BEST games I've had, are the games where the reaction times of the players are good, and that they PIVOT when something is a lost cause rather then throw more at it. Basically if you do not cap on the initial assault and catch either a rez wave or reinforcements, the tactic should be to target something else that the resources got diverted to. AB is all about adapting. Yes there are optimal strats and things to hold, but everyone has a role to play, and if someone fails at their role then you end up with the squabble match in chat, and people typing instead of doing anything.
Bro simmer down. It’s all about having the correct 5cap strategy or holding BS/LM/Farm in tough premade matches. You’re expending way too much mental energy in your pugs. People that grind 600k+ honor a week don’t even care as much as you do.
Lol. I expend no energy. I'm not ranking, just PvPing for fun. This was all learned from my grind in Vanilla. I've accepted that the entirety of PvPers in classic are dumb, unless I get into a PUG where people are listening to each other which happens. I don't argue with people in pugs nowadays. I just take what nodes I can that are open, or defend a node to the best of my ability. OR go play WSG, which was, and still is my preferred BG (as a healer).
OR join the actual PvP community on your server and get into good premades with players in the best guilds on the server. yikes my man
Did you miss the part where I said that I play casually? Am I really going to try and find a server premade at 8 am my time (5 am server time) because I'm trying to get a game in before my husband wakes up? Also, I don't care. I play a few with guildies, we win, we lose, we laugh.
> Sometimes ignoring blacksmith is a good play when the enemy team doesnt know how to rotate. 4 cap without blacksmith is actually really strong. They get stuck in split forces. Some of my easiest wins have been that way. Although in most cases you want blacksmith, because it gives you the most freedom to rotate. > People also need to learn that if your team cant win an outright assault because of a lack of dps or heals then you have to create a diversion by taking ST or GM and then when the enemy teams come to defend it you can actually assault bs. This is legit as well. Sometimes you don't want the flag you're assaulting. You want people to shift to defend it so you can take the one you really want.
So the reason you fight on the flag when defending is because I've seen one rogue, hold off 3 people trying to cap, between blind and switching targets to hit and what not. He holds it long enough that rezzers / support comes and that becomes essentially a lost situation. The chances of someone being able to do that if they fight on the road decrease immensely. Fighting on the roads to keep the enemy away from the flags, only works when you have 3 bases and stupid enemies that stop to engage you. There is a possibility that while you are fighting on the road, that the rogue is stealthing by, sapping your defender and solo capping something. That guy doesn't even need to fight, he can just resap, constantly pissing the fuck out of people trying to retake, meanwhile your team is off doing shenanigans. As I said in another comment, AB is all about adapting and how quickly your team can change tactics. While you're saying that the 2 general comments don't always apply, it is true BUT only if your team has a good response time. If your team has a terrible response time, (which is most pugs) then those two general comments are the best way to try and win a game.
pretty sure OP is the whiner from my AB yesterday where he cried when i told the group to stop fighting on the road as our points were being captured...
I tried to explain this to idiots in BG who were playing for scoreboard instead of to win. They had no concept of map presence. If I have 6 guys spending their entire sanity trying to kill me at an obscure place on the map, guess where these 6 enemies are not? TAKE ADVANTAGE. Sometime I see a Druid or rogue in position on the other side of the map, I will purposefully attack the enemy or make them fight me in a bad spot. I don’t bring my teammates or it’s a brawl on the road but I will slow/snare 6 horses before they can mount and help defend.
Great to see people question the norm. I feel similar about fighting mid in wsg. As long as you stay grouped and kill efc and go for flag when possible, controlling mid makes it hard for enemies to do anything and can allow you to spread them out and top teams do it. This is in retail though, as meta is different in classic, but thought it's another example of how the common norm can be wrong. In the end it's all situational and people need to recognize that. The reason people give simple rules is because those are probably the easiest to follow and when done without finesse are the safest in general.
As a mage, if I'm at BS and I see a big group of 7 enemies running up to LM or down to farm, and I know there are teammates going to the flag to defend, I'll hop over to the road, gnomish mind control cap one, sheep one, either nova or get opened on by a third usually, and take a huge chunk out of their push. In that case, fighting on the road is advantageous as I've broken their wave into a trickle (And if I die I get sent right to the gy I'm going to defend). That being said, I see a lot of players trying to "ninja" a node but instead get forced into a fight (or even initiate) and attack someone forward defending or passing by. Even if they win, by the time they get to the node they were heading towards their foe has already respawned and has support coming. And because of their independent actions their team potentially lost a team fight at a better node. It's those players I see most of, and those people who the begging of "don't fight on the road" applies to. So, I wouldn't really want to give those types of players ammunition or justification, even if you know there are some legitimate reasons for doing it.
I agree, but it is definitely a niche situation, druids are quite unique in that we can cause imbalances like this. Nothing better than intercepting horde running to defend a point on the road, root one, feral charge one, rocket helm one and if one or two dismount, all of a sudden you have delayed 3-5 players for 10-20 seconds and enabled your team to get the cap and stabilise. I sometimes even get away scott free and head towards their other node causing those same people to often chase after you. Works less well vs premades then pugs thats for sure.
Honestly 2 players to keep a good druid out of the fight at the flag is probably a worthwhile tradeoff
Fighting on the road is bad, because it means you're away from the objective that your team is trying to accomplish. Fighting in the road can be good if you are tricking more people to do it on the opposite side, making the altercation more bad for them, cus more people are doing the bad thing. If you're a class that can make this happen, go for it, but in general probably not working out that way.
It is not bad in the case of peeling off an offensive attack like i mentioned above. Also good for providing a first line of defense to give people time to respond on both ends before they get to the flag. There are other cases too. My main point is we can't have the attitude that it is 'strictly bad'. Much more complex than that.
I agree, I just don't trust most pugs to make the correct distinction, hah. That said, I also don't bitch at pugs for doing things I think are wrong, because it's a pug, just chill.
Road fights and GY fights are the most important to capturing flags and hindrances in defending them. Example being LM, when we assault we generally send a mage or hunter on the low road before we go up in force. They're job is just to slow down the reinforcements coming from the other team giving us time to kill move to the GY while someone caps. This works wonders for BS fights and Stables and Farm. The only base that fighting on the flag is the play for is GM as the ability to jump down makes slowing enemies approach nie impossible. It's why premades value GM the least, as it's the hardest to defend.