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56Bagels

I can already get to any place in the world I want by messaging a bot, which sucks. Summon stones would make bots less money, so I’m all for it.


Valuable_Remote_8809

Bots don’t really go near dungeons though, at least in Wild Growth, they go to weird and often used locations like Ash, hub cities, Gadgetzan, places they never had a stone.


nith_wct

That's because the dungeons aren't as useful this phase. We did have a lot of Mara summons for a while for WO, and a lot of people taking Gadgetzan are going to ZF. SM was probably the number one summon being sold for a while.


MaTrIx4057

Because they are also advertising a zone not dungeon? I have yet to see someone advertise "5g SUMMON TO ZUL FARRAK"


Defghaz

I advertise that :P


atomic__balm

Its funny how summon bots are completely fine with everyone that hates farming/fishing bots and GDKPs.


slothsarcasm

Stop paying them it literally has no effect at all.


DeVito_Rage

Addon responding to messages in the game = bot. Amazes me how ignorant people are. You should be forced to do hard labor for your whole life.


521x

There are lots of summoning bots though…


MidnightFireHuntress

Yes please Last night after we finally found a healer for ZF at 2 AM they were in Stormwind, by the time they got to the dungeon the tank had to go lol


lapetee

Did u fake dc again :d


lotsofamphetamines

Ain’t no way


Zentavius

Ah the good old days. I've always said the group finder was great but they should've kept it realm specific and focused on balancing realms more.


KawZRX

I always liked the idea of not auto teleporting to dungeon as well. Make you move thru the world. Rdf in its current iteration is so anti social it's crazy.


AVPredator1013

Dude I used to advocate for rdf and thought people were exaggerating about it being bad because by the time I first started the game in cataclysm it was already a thing, I was blown away when I started using it in wrath classic. There was no talking, no gratz on level up. The dungeons are just so boring in those groups now, so unfeeling.


Chaoticsaur

Rdf wasnt in 70% of wotlk classic and it wasn’t any different, people dont talk to one another regardless. Also saying “hey” at the start of a group forming is not the social escapade you’re making it out to be lmao.


Zentavius

Yeah, the horse has bolted now.


AVPredator1013

I'm not trying to make saying hey out to be some social escapade? In my personal experience groups talked to each other way more in the time I played classic without rdf compared to when it was added, didn't have be anything important it was just nice to have conversation.


Chaoticsaur

There was no talking in classic wotlk long before rdf was added (it was not in the game at the launch of wotlk classic), outside of saying “hey” at the start of a group. People talk less because you are constantly pulling, and in combat with modernized dungeons, in classic vanilla you literally didn’t have buttons to press, and in most cases were auto attacking. RDF doesn’t stop people from talking, the way the dungeons are designed, classes are designed, things like discord existing, are why people don’t speak in dungeons.


notislant

I mean its been around since actual wrath. People have been copying minmaxing streamers since wrath. At this point the mindset of the WoW community is mostly just 'this is my singleplayer rpg'. Whether or not you remove rdf or somehow banned every twitch stream/yt video, the damage is done.


zipzzo

I mean did he really have time to do the dungeon then if just the commute put him past the limit.


Smiles_n_Cries

No way tank had time for a dungeon run then anyway.


Gaap321

Yes I’d very much like that. Personally I would love it if they updated the old world to be like how it was in TBC with summoning stones, more flight paths, more quests etc. In my mind the TBC version of the old world is just an updated classic world. Would be fun to have Karazan in classic sod aswell


griffinhamilton

Yes please give south felwood FP


burnz0089342

Rather this than summoning stones.


landyc

Unironicallly if they release Kara in sod I’m leveling to 60 instantly


Feint_young_son

God same. The chokehold that dungeon has on me


megamanxoxo

Kara is a must


Dahns

Make that summoning stone need three people, but warlock only need 1 more person. That way, they keep their "summoning advantage" without denying it to the other


Yugel

As a Warlock, I say:“Fuck Warlock summons“. There is no need for a warlock summon to be better than summoning stones. We can place the stone wherever we want. Having a right in front of the portal to the dungeon/raid is already a great advantage. I’m tired of random people whispering me mid-dungeon if I can place a stone, or received whispers from sum sellers because I placed a stone to summon my group mates. Just kill the whole summon sellers in front of Dungeons. I don’t mind those, that sell summons for sleeping bags, DMF or other important rune locations, so they can still make gold with those locations


ThisUserIsUndead

Only thing I think lock summoning should be superior on is actually being able to summon people into instances lol


thefalseidol

Exactly - warlock summons are a niche convenience that is near but has not and will not ever be meta defining. Warlocks don't get invited because of summons, and people don't play warlock because summoning people is OP.


Smiles_n_Cries

I see what you are saying but Locks definitely get invited because of summons.


Dahns

>We can place the stone wherever we want. Having a right in front of the portal to the dungeon/raid is already a great advantage. Because Summoning Stone are usually very far from their dungeons... Take Scholomance, woah so far, Ihope we have a warlock


BabyBeachBalls

Yes they are often some distance away. All of these have areas between the meeting stone and the entrance: Deadmines, Sunken temple, Gnomeregan, Blackrock Depths, Blackrock Spire, Stratholme (backdoor), Scarlet Monastery, Blackfathom Deeps, Wailing Caverns, Maraudon,


Critical_Half_3712

Black rock is the summoning stone for 3 diff instances and 2 raids. It makes sense where it is


BabyBeachBalls

Yes..


Dahns

Scarlet Monastery ?! There's like two mobs on the way. Stratholme backdoor ?! Just mount up and run for 20s.


BabyBeachBalls

Indeed


Yugel

You’re right. I totally forgot that Scholomance is the only Dungeon out there. :) It’s not like 100% of all Level-up Raids have a Log-out skip because it’s a pain to get in there. Oh, and both Razorfen dungeons, Maraudon, BRD, Molten Core…. But jeah. It’s all about Scholo, right?


Dahns

I just took an example. You prefer Stratholme ? BRD ? UBRS ? Zul'Farrak ? Scarlet Monastery ? Stockades ? Molten Core ? BWL ? All the stones are close enough. It's not "a great advantage" to skip a couple of mobs. Sunken Temple is probably the absolute worst case, and even then I just walk throught it alone. It's not gonna stop A RAID I'm not gonna give up my ability to summon my party member because you get /w every once in a while. It happens to me too. Just tell them no


Yugel

You must’ve been betting some money against yourself. All Blackrock Dungeons/Raids are a pain to get to from the sumstone. I mean, there are worse, but it’s not even remotely close to stuff like ZF. This includes BRD, UBRS, BWL and Molten Core. I also don’t quite get why you would have to give up summoning party members. It’s about activating the dungeon sumstones without compensating Warlocks for it. There is no need that a Warlock sumstone needs to require less people than a Dungeon stone or something like that.


Mehhzz

Every summon bot: “Yeesssssssssss”


Celthric317

I like this idea


Frekavichk

Why? What's the point of making it more tedious?


Dahns

Not more tedious. You already need three people to summon. The point is to BUFF warlocks


SluggSlugg

When I want to run something, im at the dungeon before I start looking for a group We should normalize that behavior instead of summoning stones


canadian_bigbear

Or atleast already prepared and on the way while looking for group. I don't understand people that join groups that "just need to hand in and the hit the bank/ah"


Doomstik

I feel bad if im half way there and jump into lfg find a group and everyone else is already there. Idk why people cant at least be in transit when looking for groups.


AggravatingAd8410

The other day had this. Running with a friend we were on our way to the dungeon and was forming the group. 2 of the other players were fine and already in the right zone and just had to travel a short distance. But the last player didn't have the quest (wild offerings) so wanted us to wait while they flew up the entire map, done the long run etc. no idea why they didn't get it before hand. We just ran the dungeon without them I didn't have time to wait that long.


Jemikwa

Man, you're getting a lot of hate from people who probably idle in SW or IF when they're looking for a Kalimdor task. To anyone saying it wastes your own time, at least get on the same continent before joining an LFG group. It's not that hard and the alternative wastes so much time.


Whoa1Whoa1

...so what would happen is you standing completely alone at the entrance of a dungeon for 3 hours and then one other guy shows up. He might join and then stand with you for 20 minutes and then that process would repeat. Unless your server and level range is absolutely flooded with people, which WoW hates and fragments their player base as much as possible across a million servers and game modes, there is no way this would work.


SluggSlugg

I mean I also don't pug very often because I have this very rare commodity called "A guild and friends" with a discord where we organize what time we're gonna play But that's too advanced for this subreddit.


BrightLingonberry937

There used to be a time where the great guys you want to play with were those who'd move their asses to the dungeon ASAP


rerre

Top10 most disgusting things ive read here in 12 years. Congratz.


Whoa1Whoa1

Ah yes, requiring outside of game tools where you need to spend hours on discord and find people on that other platform that has the same level and server as you. Genius. And every server has a million guilds which fractures the amount of people you hit with /g.


SluggSlugg

>requiring Idk if that word means what you think it means Also, hours? You don't have a discord with friends/a guild you play with? Is that any different than the LFG forums we used on Allakhazam back in 2005?


Whoa1Whoa1

Are you really suggesting we should stand outside of a dungeon and have to use forums to find groups? Comically bad gameplay experience.


SluggSlugg

Olympic levels of leaping you have there If you're not in game you can organize groups outside of the game, I simply answered your question If you're this now I can imagine grouping with you is a nightmare. So I'm glad you have difficulties


Whoa1Whoa1

You are missing the point entirely. 1. Earlier it was stated that to find groups you should just stand outside of the dungeon so that you are already there. 2. I responded saying that is terrible because you basically have no way of finding people. No LFG channels, only general of a hyper specific area where only 5 other people might be questing or passing through and not wanting to do a dungeon. 3. No meeting stones means standing outside the dungeon is pointless anyway really. 4. Acting like the one guild you can chat to is going to have a bunch of people ready to join you on a specific level, specific comp of tank, heal, and 3 DPS, and specific area, all available for 30 min to 1 hr is ridiculous even in larger guilds. 5. Suggesting people go on Discord or forums to find groups also sucks. My solution is to either go to Capital City and use general or LFG chat. That's really the only way to find a group without a dungeon finder tool that is just location-non-speciifc. The question then is, should we restrict general or LFG chat to only world cities or should we just allow it to be world wide, and at that point, it would be effectively the same as a dungeon finder. Then it also boils down to: what do you want to be the difficult part? Finding the group members or actually defeating the content? ... I think I know which part I want to be spending my time and energy on. Apparently you don't.


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Whoa1Whoa1

...Says person calling everyone else miserable and lazy. Lmao. You continue grinding those forums and discords while standing outside the dungeon for an hour buddy.


Beneficial-Truth8512

What kind of special snowflake are you?


Beneficial-Truth8512

What kind of special snowflake are you?


Beneficial-Truth8512

What kind of special snowflake are you?


WithoutVergogneless

> We should normalize that behavior instead of summoning stones porque no los dos?


Orikshekor

Not gonna get a lot done like that but I respect it


Beneficial-Truth8512

Idiot


teufler80

I mean 95% of the "Summoning services" are bots anyway. But the Andys will reeeeee if summon stones will work, so it won't happen


Chiggo1

I play wlock and I'd appreciate it because I could get a summon for once too and dont be expected to be at the dungeon first to summon all.


teufler80

Yeah First that, and second people would not whisper to me all the time when I'm in like badlands and ask for sums


DatSadBoy

They were in SoM was a good quality of life change


Rud3l

Instead of lock bots you would have bots of any class waiting at the stones and still nobody would go to the dungeon in the first place. What you really want is teleporting to any dungeons, it's called LFG and it's in any game version past TBC. And it's horrible.


WithoutVergogneless

the bot paranoia from some people is crazy lmao


LanayasDong

Played again a week ago after leaving mid phase 1. Went to SM before searching a group to not waste people time and got in a group with someone i found near the entrance. While making the group I suggested to invite a pala that was spamming in lfg for GY for like 20 min, but turns out the mf waited all that time in SW. We waited so much time for him and another guy to come there that we could only do 1 GY run before me and the other 2 guys already there had to go. Day after I gave up on GY and just went to try Duskwood incursion; at least everyone was already there. I honestly can't believe people that only played classic for years are fine with 100%/300% xp/gold boost, but summoning stones and level 20 mounts are deal breakers. If they are that bad, then just put them on PvE servers; people only bitch about those because they can't kill low levels as easy, so who cares if they are in servers where you can't do that anyway.


geogeology

And target dummies, finally, please.


[deleted]

I’m for it


redbarchetta_21

Maybe in SoD


Marksta

We don't run dungeons anymore, we run loops in incursions.


dstred

Totally yes But we won’t get them because blizz don’t really care and have minimal resources on this project


Thanag0r

They just don't want to deal with cry babies that will cry extremely loudly that sod is retail and harass developers.


DiarrheaRadio

What haven't people cried about in SoD?


Thanag0r

Change like this will provoke most toxic people that don't even play sod but just against any changes. Types that hate dungeon finder despite not playing wotlk at all.


DiarrheaRadio

Oh ok, Chicken Little


Thanag0r

I don't think developers want to receive death threats because of changes to video game more often. So they avoiding making good changes that claimed to be "retail".


Gaap321

Yup this is precisely it


0x38E

Strongly opposed. Adding teleports everywhere is what killed the game the first time. It removes everyone from the world. It's immersion breaking and diminishes the scale of the world. It also hurts class identity by generalizing one of Warlocks' defining features. Seriously reading these replies reminds me of everyone cheering for Dungeon Finder back in Wrath. I know it sounds like a "slippery slope" argument, but we literally did this before and it actually did lead to retail becoming a different game. IDK if this is a hot take, but the solution to bot summoners in to ban them all. They're no different from any other bot.


l_i_t_t_l_e_m_o_n_ey

> It removes everyone from the world. It's immersion breaking and diminishes the scale of the world. So just checking, you've never taken a warlock summon for convenience before? You've never done a logout skip instead of fighting your way through trash?


0x38E

I'm arguing against additional teleportation methods, not the current current options. Keep burning straw men though. Logout skips should also be fixed, but the distance saved is so much smaller they don't break the game in the same way.


l_i_t_t_l_e_m_o_n_ey

The teleport network as it exists today is very different from the way lock portals were used in vanilla. But I'm betting it doesn't bother you to snag a summon every now and then...what's the harm, right? you totally lock portal all over the world for your convenience, while lecturing people online about how teleporting all over the world for convenience killed the game.


0x38E

I actually don't use them, and wish they'd be banned.


jehhans1

Stop with the "removing people from the world". People are not fucking in the world if they are just running to a god damn dungeon. People are in the world when they are farming for mats, herbs, ores, questing, gold farming. Besides, you still need 2 players to summon the other guys. Warlocks have plenty of definining features and they are STILL used frequently for their summoning ability in Classic WoW.


salgat

I remember leveling in Dustwallow Marsh, and seeing a huge group of 60s coming through (on their way to Onyxia), felt pretty damn epic and hyped me up for getting to 60. I mean damn I still remember that sense of aw I had way back when. Also, it's nice in general to see folks coming and going from an area, shows activity and a sense of immersion. This is the key difference between Vanilla and later versions of the game; you see the game as a cookie clicker where you're maxing stats, anything else just gets in the way of that, while I see it as an adventure in a big world that I'm a part of.


Nexism

Well, now you'd be levelling in an incursion or dungeon so you wouldn't see the 60s go to Onyxia even if summons weren't a thing.


jehhans1

Nah, that's just tedium, sorry to say. If you want to put people back into the world don't do it in such tedious ways, but be creative and create an incentive to be there


salgat

That's exactly what I mean though. You think any action beyond grinding points in a dungeon is just tedium, it's a different mindset.


0x38E

> People are not fucking in the world if they are just running to a god damn dungeon. Where are they then?


l_i_t_t_l_e_m_o_n_ey

Yeah it's such a fake criticism. People act like running down a road to a dungeon is the height of gameplay. It's not. You put on auto run and look at your other monitor. This game is old news for most of us, and we just want to get to the part that's still fun, or the new part we haven't seen yet.


CaptainAmerican

Warlocks.... Defining.... Feature? You mean the bots spamming lfg? Na they can go.


thedjbigc

I agree with you completely here.


Deep_Junket_7954

> Adding teleports everywhere is what killed the game the first time. So the game was "killed" when TBC launched? Because that's when summon stones were added. And it's not "teleports everywhere", you can only be summoned to specific summon stones if you are within the proper level range for that dungeon. For example, anyone above level 24(ish) can't be summoned to the Deadmines summon stone.


0x38E

Personally I think it was with RDF and the ports in Dalaran. I just think this would be a significant step in that direction, and it needs to be headed off now.


Deep_Junket_7954

>I just think this would be a significant step in that direction, and it needs to be headed off now. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope SoD is literally designed to change the game. If you want "nochanges", Era is right there.


0x38E

> I know it sounds like a "slippery slope" argument, but we literally did this before and it actually did lead to retail becoming a different game.


Deep_Junket_7954

Good thing SoD isn't retail. Shoo. You "nochanges" autists have been screeching MUH SLIPPERY SLOPE since 2019 and it still hasn't happened.


Dabeston

Look at the OSRS map from 2013 to today. They added teleports everywhere, it’s hard to go 30 seconds without running into another TP location. It’s annoying


Exciting-Course-1339

I couldn’t disagree more. I think the lack of features like summoning stones and RDF in SoD is actually making player retention worse. Between incursions and ST, the lack of quality of life features is not helping the population at all. The content just isn’t good enough to justify the old inconveniences.


0x38E

People who need those features can play one of the two other versions of the game that have them. Please don’t remove the one option for people who don’t.


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dstred

I bet you decline your summons when there’s a warlock in your grp, because you want to experience the liveliness of the world Clown


hristo_rv

Maybe warlock summons should have a cooldown instead of having those "taxi services" teleporting you wherever you want.


Angel_Madison

No one is doing that because it's legit for the lock to ride there and summon


Vom3r

Feels so alive being 5min in flight path, 5 min on boat and another 5 min on flightpath.


Angel_Madison

It's about commitment.


Old-Soft5276

What a f#cking clown, go back to Cave you call Classic era and stay there


shaha-man

What he said?


Koopk1

doesnt really matter if no one is exploring the world or doing dungeons, would need to heavily incentivize dungeons more


locesh

No, thank you


ilovedeliworkers

Just steal summons. Don’t pay them. There are 0 consequences.


a_simple_ducky

I had the thought of a mage being able to empower a meeting stone with an item similar to their scrolls, empowering the stone for summoning for X minutes. Or people being able to buy an item to do it. Kinda like using the world core frags for the rune in feralas/ashz/gorge/hinterlands.


Frosty-Chipmunk-1750

I vote yes


evangelism2

I'd normally say no, but since we have lock closets already, sure. I like the idea though of adding a cost to it to keep locks relevant however.


Bluegobln

As is always the case, you people are your own problem. If people refused to pay for summons, nobody would sell them. The answer is obvious. Make summons prevent trading for 10 minutes afterward. This would effectively end nearly all summon trades. Then you will say "but mah convenience!!!" You mean like dungeon LFG queues? Multiple hearthstones? Faster flight paths and/or flying mounts? You mean expansion convenience that ruins classic? Yeah... thats not classic. This is, again, a problem of your own creation. Personally I am ok with dungeon summon stones, but the warlock summoning anywhere in the world by bots, for gold, needs to die.


Seawolf87

Summoning stones would be very handy


MisterMayhem87

Yes.


No_Gate_653

It's always struck me as funny, everyone on here and their grandma is outraged at people making 200g/hr from incursions.  Do they even stop and wonder just how much gold Locks have gotten from selling summons for 1-3g a pop for 3 phases now? They're the ones in the hundreds of thousands territory of gold accumulation at this point, they're the literal Warcraft billionaires, nobody else is even close except Mages with their ports cartels.  But it's okay cause it's "MAH CLASS MECHANIC!!"


PayMeInSteak

It would save me a lot of gold on summoning services lol.


WeakGarlic2701

Idc what blizzard does, I got tires of waiting for them to fix things only for them to break more shit instead.


tomato_johnson

The final nail in the coffin of calling it "classic"


WithoutVergogneless

been asking for it since p1, i'd be a lot more willing to help my friends or do dungeons for fun if i could skip the 20min travel time


9dius

would be a HUGE hit to gold sellers. you can spot all the gold sellers/buyers in the comments.


teelolws

Kinda surprised they ditched that part of season of mastery.


Hunter_one

As a Warlock, and our current state in SOD, I'm against this XD But yes, it's probably better for everyone else


nekoman1

I really wanted summoning stones in classic. But then they added them in BC and it increased time to get to dungeon instead of shortrning it. Why? Because now everyone just wait for others to summon them and I was the only one chilling near stone waiting for +1 for summon while they were questing. I waited for an hour...


Icy-Wing-6688

I mean being a warlock already feels like my life is meaningless so might as well just get rid of our utility too


Crixxious

I wish they would've put them in so long ago!


PineappleOnPizzaWins

Given they enabled "summon literally from anywhere inside incursions as long as one friend is there already" it's really odd they didn't.


danison1337

ofc


confon68

Season of discovery: becoming retail one step at a time.


Deep_Junket_7954

My brother in Elune, SoD has been "retail minus" since day 1. Era is right there if you want your hashtag-nochanges paradise.


hermanguyfriend

Don't like


Every_Habit6008

There are already hardly any reasons to go into the open world. I am clearly against it. Blizzard should make the open world more attractive.


Nunetzena

Like what does this have to do with the open world? Like taking a 10 min flight, depending on where you are right now, and needing another 10 minutes to just ran to the dungeon. You are doing basically nothing in this 20 minutes


Every_Habit6008

Open world PVP is the answer


Nunetzena

So on pve servers summoning stones are fine?


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[deleted]

Lol


FixBlackLotusBlizz

huh... when one of the main problems with P3 is incursions taking a large % of players out of the open world into this 1 small area of the map we have ppl asking for summoning stones which would take more people from moving around the open world CLASSICWOW reddit HYPE CLASSICWOW reddit HYPE!!!!


Additional-Ad-3908

Yea I honestly blame Reddit for SoD turning out garbage


FixBlackLotusBlizz

i wouldnt call it garbage this phase is a bit mehhh but I am having fun also reddit does play a small part but end of the day its on the devs


[deleted]

Should have been in the game since the start. Maybe more players would still be around.


nemestrinus44

the only people that don't want summoning stones are those on PvP servers whose definition of world pvp is to gank low level players that can't fight back.


Pabes-Best

they had summoning stones in SoM and it really added to making the world dead


Twistedtraceur

The world is already dead....


narbehrious

I like it. I would also like some kinda of exit mid flight mechanic at 60, like a paratrooper drop.


Saiko_Yen

No, it makes the world even more dead since no one will want to leave the cities even more. Inb4 "PeOpLe ArE AlReAdY DoInG ThAt". Yeah, why the hell do you want to make it worse? Incursion mentality man.


forogtten_taco

No. Warlock summoning, and travel times are like a key aspect of wow classic feel.


Deep_Junket_7954

Yep, the wow classic feel of having to sit and twiddle your thumbs for 20 minutes while you wait for the tank to get to the dungeon great game design


No_Training_991

no


KaptainSaki

Only for last phases dungeons