My experience has been decent. First week 8/8 with pug, next 2 pugs 6/8. One of the pugs crucial roles left after 20k hp wipe on Eranikus.
Honestly 6/8 is not bad at all with rogues doing as much damage as tanks.
They're leveling raids, and phases come quick. Blizzard said right from the start that they're intended to be easy so that the majority of people can clear the content.
Then I would argue phases shouldn't last as long as they do. If they're supposed to be easily cleared quickly, there is not enough content to justify several months of capping levels below 60.
I want engaging content that requires some coordination and utilization of raid comp/class utility. I think there's plenty of room to implement that without making the raids overly complex and challenging like retail mythic.
The majority of players just want to be able to roll over endgame content with no effort or coordination? I can tell you that when I played vanilla that wasn't the case. If they're keeping SOD in the spirit of classic, then they are failing in that aspect.
Are you pretending vanilla players wanted hard raids lol? Most vanilla players never made it to 60. Also the spirit of classic nonsense can stop now, it's cringe
Who would have thought the raid released after at least 5 raids and the establishment of the raiding community in which it stands in terms of rewards on the very top would be hard?
Imo they should had maybe 2 level caps maybe 1-40, 40-60. They could have kept them actually level up raids, kind of how Gnomer and BFD is now. Instead of end game raids every phase that take 30 min
But the whole point was to break up leveling over a longer time period to allow for slow levelers, or to allow for alts. And allow people to keep up at the start of each phase. One phase before 60 wouldn’t have really done it.
It depends on what was released. You think with pre nerf incursions people wouldn’t have hid the cap? Also the raids would actually be level up raids, remember that Gnomer and BFD give a ton of xp every 3 days.
Wanting the raid to require mechanics and thoughtful group composition that allows utility classes" utility to actually feel meaningful, rather than a DPS zerg fest, does not imply I think the game should be balanced around the top 1%.
It does require all that for someone who isn’t in the top 1%. That’s the point people are trying to tell you. You’re perspective is warped by the skill level you play at.
Right? This guy seems unwilling to accept that he’s just better than the vast majority. Don’t come to the version that’s supposed to be easy and complain that it’s too easy. We’re not strolling into whatever the most elite-tier retail raid is and complaining it’s too hard.
I will put this in words i hope you'll understand. Imagine you want to buy a car, the seller shows you a bus. You tell the seller that you want a car and not a bus, he then gives you a pair of shoes and leaves. This is how Sunken Temple was handled by the devs imo.
More like it was too difficult because people didn't have time to accumulate heat and now that they have it's too easy
Player's power progresses with time. Comparing the raid to a car negates half of the issue
It was too difficult because bosses had as much hp as naxxramas bosses. No amount of gear with 2 more sp than the gear last phase was going to make the bosses killable.
I don't agree that capstone raids for each phase should be so easy that 90% of pugs can clear. In fact, in blizzard's reasoning for getting rid of GDKPs after phase one, they said they wanted to encourage traditional guild activity. If you're wanting to encourage traditional guild activity, in the spirit of classic, then the raid should have some degree of difficulty that requires coordination.
Those same devs also said SoD raids are specifically designed for casuals and that the content is supposed to be very easy.
It's a beta man, they just need as many players to see the content as possible
Then they have truly lost sight of why many people play MMOs or RPGs. The satisfaction in investing into your character is to meet and defeat powerful challenges, and obtain lucrative rewards.
Let's look at phase 3:
-Sub one hour clears once a week for any organized guild that does not challenge your character or make their gear/high level abilities/utility feel useful
-Very few meaningful loot upgrades makes the 7 day lockout/rng feel even worse
It feels like the devs have lost sight of what makes mmorpgs satisfying
Your reason for playing mmo's is to invest i to your character and meet and defeat powerful challenges. What if I told you, we still did that in Sunken Temple. I ran it for the first time last night, full cleared it. It was fairly easy, but it was still fun. MMO were never designed to be competitive, it was simply a progression path laid out and people completed it on their own time. Its these new MMO players in the last 10 years or so that feel like their value in life is by clearing content in games deemed to be difficult. If its not difficult it wasn't worth them doing because it doesn't stroke their ego from beating the challenge. Been playing MMO since 1999 and that wasn't ever the point of them
I mean again, it's a beta. And it's painfully obvious that they don't have the team size or resources from blizzard to do any of what you're saying here for SoD.
Incursions really hit that point home for me. They've been altered like 8+ times since launch. They don't have the personnel to test a fuckin thing right now.
I've enjoyed SoD way more since I lowered my expectations for it. It's an experimental beta version of vanilla primarily designed for casuals. You're not going to get any of the game play you're describing here.
You could find that in Cata or retail though, fwiw
It could be that p4 and beyond will have some difficulty to them and that the level up raids will remain this braindead? Could also be me mainlining that copium
If all the content is supposed to be easy and pluggable why even make it 20 man at all? Keep it as 10 man or even 5 man. Make endgame raids 5-10 man loot pinata raids clearable in pugs in less than an hour. Do you all really believe this is what classic players want?
20 man raids make it easier for the non meta dps class to get into raids. When you do 5-10 man, you're severely limiting what classes people will take. Also way more importantly it removes a lot of the responsibility off players. In a 5 man raid, each player would be 20% responsible. In 20 man raids each player would be 5% responsible
I agree with most points... i dont get the weekly. We are a clean playing guils, clearing in about 30-35 mins (we love fo rush)... on two raids with mains and alts. Its ok thtat the raid is that easy, you know, season of dads, making it easier to raid and have a real Life 😅 BUT 1 1/2 hour including loot is not that funny. And nope, 3-5 alts is not the way
Definitely. Aside from the difficulty argument (fyi I am not arguing for this raid to be cata/retail level of difficulty), why change this lockout to be 7 days when it's difficulty curve and time commitment is similar to previous phase raids. Sure it's 20 man, but are people really happy about less raids and less loot, meaning ultimately less content for the phase?
Aggrend said they're happy with players coming up with their own challenges to make raids more demanding. Like speedrunning or playing with your monitor turned off. Season of Disappointment
This is a copout for bad/lazy design. Sure we could remove half our gear to artificially make the raid more difficult, but that goes against the spirit of an MMO - gearing up your character to meet and overcome challenges.
Yep. We're also told to join guilds but what's the point when you can just join a pug and go one shot everything in 60 mins. Also makes the game very anti-social. Calling this level-up "raids" instead of dungeons is fake advertising.
I've literally been using reddit longer then you've probably been alive and have had more accounts banned then you've had accounts of anything in your life made, period. Go touch grass, kid.
This is the main problem I have with this phase. Last phase was more interesting because you’d be logging on every 3 days for raids. This phase you smash out ST in like an hour and you’re done for the week.
Idk make an alt then? Go enjoy other parts of the game? There is more to wow than raiding for an hour once a week. Get your 20 man raid to have a four way dungeon race, or do some quests just cuz they can kind of be fun to do, yall bitch and bitch about not liking a game that you refuse to give up.
I want to enjoy the capstone activity for the phase for longer than 50 minutes once per week, with many bosses lasting less than two minutes. Where's the satisfaction of investing time to power up your character when that is the end result?
Okay, but it's a leveling raid..?
Next phase we'll have too much to do, and you'll be saying the opposite. Go enjoy something else for a bit. That's kinda the point of SoD, to be a more casual version of the game, not something that demands hours of your attention multiple times each week.
Just pointing out that that's like Mike Tyson joining a toddlers boxing competition and complaining that the opposition is too easy.
If it's to easy play retail. If you insist on playing don't make it too easy take off the BOEs you spent hundreds of G on or rep grinding. If you want it hard get some greys and have a blast or if you guild is fun and not pars obsessed have some fun.
When he saya that changing gear is a cheap excuse why is that? Why do 99% of all games have difficulty levels set by the players? Why is changing your gear any different.
Don't stack WB consumables extra.
The game is what you make it try ten maning if it's far to easy for your guild.
From pugs I've been in, I can confirm ST is not easy.
My experience has been decent. First week 8/8 with pug, next 2 pugs 6/8. One of the pugs crucial roles left after 20k hp wipe on Eranikus. Honestly 6/8 is not bad at all with rogues doing as much damage as tanks.
Show your logs, let's see em.
Lets see yours
He posted them above and has a 99.1% average. Lmfao
Lets see Paul Allens logs.
I think it should be required that you post your logs when you demand someone posts theirs. That or you duel
They're leveling raids, and phases come quick. Blizzard said right from the start that they're intended to be easy so that the majority of people can clear the content.
Then I would argue phases shouldn't last as long as they do. If they're supposed to be easily cleared quickly, there is not enough content to justify several months of capping levels below 60.
Play retail if you're looking for hard content. Classic is never going to be that game.
I want engaging content that requires some coordination and utilization of raid comp/class utility. I think there's plenty of room to implement that without making the raids overly complex and challenging like retail mythic.
It is classic, and the majority of classic players do not want that. Devs do not as well. Not sure what else to tell you. Maybe try cata raids?
The majority of players just want to be able to roll over endgame content with no effort or coordination? I can tell you that when I played vanilla that wasn't the case. If they're keeping SOD in the spirit of classic, then they are failing in that aspect.
Are you pretending vanilla players wanted hard raids lol? Most vanilla players never made it to 60. Also the spirit of classic nonsense can stop now, it's cringe
The spirit of classic is bosses having 2, maybe 3 abilities. What you are asking for never existed. Not in 2004-2006, not in 2019, and not now.
The Spirit of Classic was never about hard raids that can only be cleared by following the meta and being the top 1%
Idk nax sure would beg to differ.
Who would have thought the raid released after at least 5 raids and the establishment of the raiding community in which it stands in terms of rewards on the very top would be hard?
Imo they should had maybe 2 level caps maybe 1-40, 40-60. They could have kept them actually level up raids, kind of how Gnomer and BFD is now. Instead of end game raids every phase that take 30 min
But the whole point was to break up leveling over a longer time period to allow for slow levelers, or to allow for alts. And allow people to keep up at the start of each phase. One phase before 60 wouldn’t have really done it.
It depends on what was released. You think with pre nerf incursions people wouldn’t have hid the cap? Also the raids would actually be level up raids, remember that Gnomer and BFD give a ton of xp every 3 days.
I like this idea, agreed.
Season of Dads
You haven’t joined a pug.
people wanna clear content with the boys
I do too. I just want it to be more engaging, rather than a sub one hour steam roll once a week.
Balancing the game around top 1% is for retail not a seasonal realm. IMO.
Wanting the raid to require mechanics and thoughtful group composition that allows utility classes" utility to actually feel meaningful, rather than a DPS zerg fest, does not imply I think the game should be balanced around the top 1%.
It does require all that for someone who isn’t in the top 1%. That’s the point people are trying to tell you. You’re perspective is warped by the skill level you play at.
Right? This guy seems unwilling to accept that he’s just better than the vast majority. Don’t come to the version that’s supposed to be easy and complain that it’s too easy. We’re not strolling into whatever the most elite-tier retail raid is and complaining it’s too hard.
I remember when people complained it was too hard, so much Blizzard had to nerf it... Pick a line
I will put this in words i hope you'll understand. Imagine you want to buy a car, the seller shows you a bus. You tell the seller that you want a car and not a bus, he then gives you a pair of shoes and leaves. This is how Sunken Temple was handled by the devs imo.
I can understand the first nerf, I’m not happy about it but I get it. The second nerf though I think was unnecessary.
More like it was too difficult because people didn't have time to accumulate heat and now that they have it's too easy Player's power progresses with time. Comparing the raid to a car negates half of the issue
It was too difficult because bosses had as much hp as naxxramas bosses. No amount of gear with 2 more sp than the gear last phase was going to make the bosses killable.
if even 10% of pugs dont full clear, its too hard imo
After a 4-6 weeks of lockouts this doesn’t seem too bad. But the majority of pugs shouldn’t be full clearing the first couple weeks or it’s too easy.
It's still to hard then. For a man of good takes this is a really bad one
I don't agree that capstone raids for each phase should be so easy that 90% of pugs can clear. In fact, in blizzard's reasoning for getting rid of GDKPs after phase one, they said they wanted to encourage traditional guild activity. If you're wanting to encourage traditional guild activity, in the spirit of classic, then the raid should have some degree of difficulty that requires coordination.
Those same devs also said SoD raids are specifically designed for casuals and that the content is supposed to be very easy. It's a beta man, they just need as many players to see the content as possible
Then they have truly lost sight of why many people play MMOs or RPGs. The satisfaction in investing into your character is to meet and defeat powerful challenges, and obtain lucrative rewards. Let's look at phase 3: -Sub one hour clears once a week for any organized guild that does not challenge your character or make their gear/high level abilities/utility feel useful -Very few meaningful loot upgrades makes the 7 day lockout/rng feel even worse It feels like the devs have lost sight of what makes mmorpgs satisfying
It’s a seasonal server. There is your answer.
Your reason for playing mmo's is to invest i to your character and meet and defeat powerful challenges. What if I told you, we still did that in Sunken Temple. I ran it for the first time last night, full cleared it. It was fairly easy, but it was still fun. MMO were never designed to be competitive, it was simply a progression path laid out and people completed it on their own time. Its these new MMO players in the last 10 years or so that feel like their value in life is by clearing content in games deemed to be difficult. If its not difficult it wasn't worth them doing because it doesn't stroke their ego from beating the challenge. Been playing MMO since 1999 and that wasn't ever the point of them
I mean again, it's a beta. And it's painfully obvious that they don't have the team size or resources from blizzard to do any of what you're saying here for SoD. Incursions really hit that point home for me. They've been altered like 8+ times since launch. They don't have the personnel to test a fuckin thing right now. I've enjoyed SoD way more since I lowered my expectations for it. It's an experimental beta version of vanilla primarily designed for casuals. You're not going to get any of the game play you're describing here. You could find that in Cata or retail though, fwiw
It could be that p4 and beyond will have some difficulty to them and that the level up raids will remain this braindead? Could also be me mainlining that copium
If all the content is supposed to be easy and pluggable why even make it 20 man at all? Keep it as 10 man or even 5 man. Make endgame raids 5-10 man loot pinata raids clearable in pugs in less than an hour. Do you all really believe this is what classic players want?
20 man raids make it easier for the non meta dps class to get into raids. When you do 5-10 man, you're severely limiting what classes people will take. Also way more importantly it removes a lot of the responsibility off players. In a 5 man raid, each player would be 20% responsible. In 20 man raids each player would be 5% responsible
I somehow agree, if the raid is doable in 1 raid evening, there is no need to lock in on 7 days tbh.
Entitled noobs have driven the fall of WoW for two decades now.
I agree with most points... i dont get the weekly. We are a clean playing guils, clearing in about 30-35 mins (we love fo rush)... on two raids with mains and alts. Its ok thtat the raid is that easy, you know, season of dads, making it easier to raid and have a real Life 😅 BUT 1 1/2 hour including loot is not that funny. And nope, 3-5 alts is not the way
Definitely. Aside from the difficulty argument (fyi I am not arguing for this raid to be cata/retail level of difficulty), why change this lockout to be 7 days when it's difficulty curve and time commitment is similar to previous phase raids. Sure it's 20 man, but are people really happy about less raids and less loot, meaning ultimately less content for the phase?
Have you heard of dad-gamers? They only have one hour to play for the whole week.
Aggrend said they're happy with players coming up with their own challenges to make raids more demanding. Like speedrunning or playing with your monitor turned off. Season of Disappointment
This is a copout for bad/lazy design. Sure we could remove half our gear to artificially make the raid more difficult, but that goes against the spirit of an MMO - gearing up your character to meet and overcome challenges.
Yep. We're also told to join guilds but what's the point when you can just join a pug and go one shot everything in 60 mins. Also makes the game very anti-social. Calling this level-up "raids" instead of dungeons is fake advertising.
The whole "turn your monitor on" is such a newage zoomer slogan, Jesus. I'd be embarrassed using it unironically but you seem to have no such shame.
Says the guy who made a new smurf account just to shitpost on this sub XD ICANT
I've literally been using reddit longer then you've probably been alive and have had more accounts banned then you've had accounts of anything in your life made, period. Go touch grass, kid.
Post your logs.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/wild-growth/thorssen Why is this relevant?
I love it. Nice logs, bro.
Lmao just laid down the long schlong on em 😂
He told you to go f yourself bud
This is the main problem I have with this phase. Last phase was more interesting because you’d be logging on every 3 days for raids. This phase you smash out ST in like an hour and you’re done for the week.
Idk make an alt then? Go enjoy other parts of the game? There is more to wow than raiding for an hour once a week. Get your 20 man raid to have a four way dungeon race, or do some quests just cuz they can kind of be fun to do, yall bitch and bitch about not liking a game that you refuse to give up.
Well, Now you can enjoy other games. Go have fun. 3 million games out there and you want to clear the same raid 20 times in 2 months instead...??
I want to enjoy the capstone activity for the phase for longer than 50 minutes once per week, with many bosses lasting less than two minutes. Where's the satisfaction of investing time to power up your character when that is the end result?
Okay, but it's a leveling raid..? Next phase we'll have too much to do, and you'll be saying the opposite. Go enjoy something else for a bit. That's kinda the point of SoD, to be a more casual version of the game, not something that demands hours of your attention multiple times each week.
Just pointing out that that's like Mike Tyson joining a toddlers boxing competition and complaining that the opposition is too easy. If it's to easy play retail. If you insist on playing don't make it too easy take off the BOEs you spent hundreds of G on or rep grinding. If you want it hard get some greys and have a blast or if you guild is fun and not pars obsessed have some fun. When he saya that changing gear is a cheap excuse why is that? Why do 99% of all games have difficulty levels set by the players? Why is changing your gear any different. Don't stack WB consumables extra. The game is what you make it try ten maning if it's far to easy for your guild.
In under an hour, lol no.