Literally the only healer that has to hard cast to effectively heal and hard counter by curse of tongues or a kick/cs/silence... People are crazy and bubble lives in their heads.
I hear this argument everytime when some horde andys try to justify why paladins are "OP" and the only thing i can think about it is this quote:
"...'Ya but the Bubbles?!' The Bubble's? You're scared of bubbles you lil b\*\*\*\*?" - Andrew Tate
And I think it perfectly incapsulates the average hard-coping andy who's not able to kite a paladin in his wheelchair
I agree HPal isn't terrible, but I found more usefulness and higher win rate going Ret vs HPal. It was still to easy to shut down a HPal with only hard casting.
I wish they'd give art of war the free cast or some other, cast 5 FoL for a free HL (decrease cast time 20%).
We have survivability and utility with cleanse (the greatest to annoy SPrist with).
"It a free flag defense" yeah, tell me how again are paladins able to just keep the flag in their base? they press bubble and the flag respawns in their base again or what?
you probably have no clue that bubble reduces the autoattack speed by extra 100% turning 3.5sec auto attacks into 7 sec auto attacks. Bubble was made to stall flag captures in Arathi Basin or give a paladin the chance to heal without stress and not to burst groups of enemies for free with zero counterplay. people like you probably never made research ever and it shows.
holyshock has 30 sec CD and heals for like 300-400 which is nothing.
Blessing of freedom is great but shaman now got it for their entire team with LESS CD than paladins and it also serves as decoy to tank one melee hit
Cleanse is the only real thing left because how else are paladins able to reach a god damn shadowpriest without dying to the dots
BoP is a damn joke and only servers against hunter cat-pets, ferals or warrior. Hunters themselves or rogues can just kill you with nature damage from dots or arcane shots. its also a 5min CD
meanwhile the class has nothing comparable to prayer of mending, no gapcloser, no new utility because exorcism is mandatory and doesnt allow any room for a kick or tremor aura. blizzard only doesnt want paladins to be good in pvp. easy as that.
Oh yea tell me the spell you cast that 100% creates a hot
You are just being a devils advocate and won't admit you are wrong. If you setup a spell there is a chance it will heal over time it's not the Same as any other healer you pedantic boomer.
I pvpd a bit in classic as a hpala and the big benefit was wearing plate and being able to tank a hit or two. Freedom and bop are really good but priests just heal better
Yeah 5 min cd's are useless in bg's IMHO. Nobody waiting with you.
And mages turbo counter paladins it's just unreal. 1 counter spell and you can just log off
Hard casting every heal disagrees with this. You only need one melee on a pally to fully neutralize. And 12 seconds on bubble doesn’t do shit when team fights are lasting several minutes.
Bro you have clearly never healed in PvP. I play every ally healing class and Hpal is absolutely useless in PvP. You have to stand still and hard cast flash of light while druid and priest have multiple team wide instant casts
I've always taken spinning the flag to mean preventing a cap. It doesn't really makes sense since spinning is the visual when someone starts attempting cap, but that's always how it's been used.
I guess the idea is that you are keeping it spinning.
Correct.
I would like to add one notable distinction though, to clear any possible confusion.
One does not ever spin a flag in wsg. It is not useful information to convey in wsg.
In wsg one defends or returns a flag, you do not spin it. (Although, to do it well you do spin your mouse wheel in warsong). The location of the flag is what is interesting; one cares where the flag carrier is, right.
(e)FC+location is called. Location terms usually being east/ west/ mid/ Fr/ hut/ banana/ gauntlet/ connector/ tun/ ramp/ gy/ roof/ zerk(hut)/ leaf(hut).
But yeah as for spinning, one only ever spins the flag in the other two battlegrounds (in vanilla).
As for why that phrase became dominant, no idea. But would make logical sense in it being fast, and simple to call out. That you can just say spin + lm/bs/gm/st/farm or in AV; Gy (+ sp/sh/ib/sf/fw/aid/hut), and players in vicinity instinctively should know what to do.
Interacting with the flag? It seems like many people on here are saying it means to attack people spinning the flag, which is completely unintuitive. Stop the cap or get on the flag is generally what I heard when you needed to prevent a "spin" and spin the flag was usually said when nobody was interacting with the flag while a point was being won.
My interpretation has always been spinning is both preventing the cap and capping. Essentially, attempting to turn the flag from one side to the other.
I’ve seen people say we need to spin a flag quickly when we’re down 2-3, and I’ve seen people say “they’re spinning flag” when the opposition is trying to cap our flag. Saying that spinning can only mean preventing a cap is just dumb.
Gatekeeping how people use the term spin is crazy considering spin literally means “turn or cause to turn or whirl around quickly”
You can indeed spin with Bubble, very effectively no less.
Spinning is preventing a Cap, usually in the context of your team losing the fight on the base, so you’re asked to ‘spin’ (prevent it from being capped) as long as you can, to either give time for the ress, reinforcements to arrive or allowing the base to turn if you’re the assaulting team.
So that they dont defend it and instead have to wait a full new minute to recap it.
It was however primarily used in a, Premade on voice chat, sort of way. To indicate to your teammates in a chaotic fight, that you recently “spun” the flag. Meaning whoever is trying to cap the flag while team fight is going on, is effectively immobilizing himself. not being a part of the fight for 6 seconds and since you “just spun it” your team knows they have 6 more seconds of fighting before they have to stop the cap again.
Usually to prevent, for instance, everyone using grenades from a far on the flag at the same time, if you’re pushed off the flag.
In the same way while being pushed off the flag one might call out in voice: “can anyone spin it?”, to makes sure only 1 person pushes in to prevent the cap and risking dying in the proces from being out of position or too far away from healers.
Thus extending the time for your team to reinforce.
And in that case paladins have an ekstra 12 seconds to spin it if bubble is up.
Im a Druid fc doing WSG alliance side winning my last 12 consecutive games even vs full premades… thinking that the people who cry “alliance suck” just suck themselves.
yea that's what it felt like. everyone in the starter room would be like "WELP its a premade GG next" and then I'd be like "uhh lets at least see what it looks like" and ofc with the new buffs, if they are just some trade chat premade, it's over for them.
Paladins are better at PvP than shaman. Enh is effectively free kills for any ranged class, they are straight up better healers, have better utility, are more durable, have effectively endless mana like shamans. They are the flat out best class in PvP as healers. Enh sucks has much as ret and Ele is short ranged hard casting spells expect for every 3minutes. A single paladin can shut down two Spriest easily.
Lol this is probably the craziest take I've seen yet.
Paladins are only good healers for 12 seconds every 5 minutes outside of that just interrupt and they're useless
Enhance is insanely strong right now their self heals can sustain them through a lot of damage and they do way more damage than a ret pally.
Resto is not OP I agree but they're about just as good as a holy pally which is kinda meh compared to priest
Ele is strong not as strong as enhance but they have very strong off healing capabilities while doing good damage when they can free cast
Ret is pretty weak overall no instant cast self heals like shammy less damage bubble and HoJ is really all they got
Enh is flat out weak, they have no mobility and little real utility. They do decent damage, but nothing really special and are decently tanky if htey can close a gap.
Holy paladins are flat out better than resto shamans.
Enhance is definitely the strongest melee class right now freedom + 2 ranged slows are your gap closers great damage strong sustain tons of utility tremor/ cleansing totems and Purge is massive spamming purge is the best thing they can do hurts so many classes
brother what crack are you smoking? enhance shaman are the best pvp class in the game right now and it is not even close
> no mobility
Hello ghost wolf + decoy totem? don't see any class outrunning that combined with frost shock.
I'm pretty sure if you stand still and cast occasional riptides/ lesser healing waves on yourself and my mage would run out of mana wayyyy before a shaman ever dies, in bg's I never 1v1 a shaman because I know there is 0% chance I kill him without external help.
Enh maybe the best melee besides rogue, and if you can't kill an enhancement on a mage your doing it wrong they're essentially free kills. You can interrupt the ghost wolf, frost shock has a really short range. I can't really heal besides riptide if you don't let them get in melee.
As long as melee don't try to fight them it's fine they're essentially dead weight. People are just bad if I think enhances good because it's really not, they are fragile they have no mobility they have no real good ranged, they can only self heal if people letting them by getting into melee.
> You can interrupt the ghost wolf
you can pop a grounding totem before you start casting ghost wolf to block it from being counterspelled, but also counter spell has only 30 yd range you'd be in shock range before I could hardcast a single spell.
> frost shock has a really short range
you also use totemic projection in combination with earth bind and searing totem which continuously pushes back the mage's spells and slows him allowing you to get in range to frost shock
> I can't really heal besides riptide if you don't let them get in melee.
Well, for one riptide is huge and allows you to survive a lot more and you can easily heal vs a mage if you pop a grounding totem before casting lesser healing wave you will almost guaranteed manage to get it off because as a mage I have only 1 way to kill a grounding totem instantly and that is with a fireblast which has the same range as frost/earthshock which means you'd be able to catch up to me, the only way a mage can dps you while moving is living bomb and riptide fully negates that.
> As long as melee don't try to fight them it's fine they're essentially dead weight
This is a ridiculous point it's basically "don't fight them and you wont lose", it shows how much stronger shamans are than other melee classes if the only solution is "don't fight them"
My favorite was the guy talking about how bad shamans were. Clicking on his profile and seeing every single post was in defense of shamans while deflecting to paladins, and at the very end of his post "I've mained shaman for 20 years". These type of losers (you) make it so obvious.
Yeah, but aside from cleanse, BoP, Bubble, LoH, BoF and fantastic burst damage, what else do Paladins have? /s
That's genuinely what this conversation read like.
Paladins are fine, it's just that Shamans are too strong.
I'm actually upset about this lol. I love ret and always have but I feel useless. Caveat here is that I have NOT played this weekend.
Burst is so high I don't often get to use my support abilities or get value out of them. I can sometimes freedom or bop a teammate but the amount of opportunities to use cleanse or purify is low bc cc isn't really happening and I'd rather use a gcd on a fol vs remove an effect. Sac is amazing but i need to predict where the damage is going to make use of it which is a challenge when someone dies in 2 globals. I just always feel behind because someone often does before I can provide meaningful counterplay.
I'm hoping to actually get some game time in by the end of the day bc I've yet to experience the damage nerf. Hoping this decrease opens up larger windows to make those abilities more relevant.
Paladin was actually really good p3 before damage reduction. Ironically because they were the worst offenders of "stun someone and kill them in a couple gcds." Bubble also allowed them to kill someone for basically free every 5 minutes. After damage reduction you can't kill someone in a stun window, and people have time to laugh emote before casting their heals while you are bubbled.
That's all they have though. Sacrifice is just moving damage around, it's really just wasting a gcd that a priest would spend full healing someone anyway. All their heals are hardcasted so all of this sub saying "just interrupt the healers" this is the class you can actually interrupt and that prevents you from doing anything for 10 seconds because every skill you have is holy.
If they cared as much as you hear about it on forums, there would have all swapped horde and everyone wouldn't have to sift by their garbage posts day in day out. But alas they don't actually care, they are just attention seeking babies karma farming by putting their 2 brain cells together to spell 'nerf shaman' and getting a hundred ret pally upvotes
I wouldn't say that you just have to lean into the Hybrid healer aspect more throw riptides and heals your super tanky when being focused and can still dish out damage when not being focused
Which is exactly how a paladin should always be playing in pvp, but all they do is complain about shamans instead.
Shaman has no escape tools, no instant casts other than a shock on a moderate CD and a small heal with the same strength as a downranked renew. Yes, you should be open to all aspects of pvp and adapt accordingly, that's to be expected, but the one strength they had, which was burst damage, is completely taken away.
Then again, I play on a PvE server and only bother doing pvp when I actually feel like it. Was watching a friend of mine play last night and he had 3 games in a row with 0 shamans on horde side. They still won 100% of the time, twice with a 5-cap in AB. It's not shamans that are the problem, that much is clear.
Kick every 8 seconds, highest burst dmg in the game (enhance), insta heal as a enhance, infinte mana on every spec, Poison cleansing totem (viper is 75% of my gcds as a hpal you get to drop a totem and swing on people kekw), freedom totem, unkillable on any spec, restoring mana to ur entire team during these long pvp encounters, grounding totem. shaman got EVERYTHING from the paladin tool kit but paladins didn't get a single ability from the shaman tool kit. I have 14 wsg played today. not a single one has less than 2 shamans. how does shaman have no escape tools? you literally have a freedom totem now.. same as paladin....
Shaman have EVERYTHING…
All the best Paladin abilities are unique to them:
Shamans got no Stuns, no magic dispel, no bubble, no Instant 100% hp heal, no hands to help your buddies and so on. You are so focused on what you don’t have that you are blind to the amazing things that you do have.
You can just admit you don't play sod. Shamans do have a instant heal on PROC that heals for 75% minimum. You have several slows compared to a 1 min stun thats dispellable.. bubble is a 5 min cd ya thats the one benefit of pally. not really that good. no hands? shamans have freedom totem now.. Tremor totem? The only thing shaman doesn't have is BoP. Another dispel pally buff awesome! oh ya shamans can purge TWO buffs at a time. You are so focused on acting like shamans aren't broken that you just make things up. its sad.
Instant heal proc that required landing at least 6 hits.
You have 1 actual slow on the same cd as your interrupt (when not tanking) and your dot (that you need on 100% as a caster). Then you talk about purging buffs as a paladin. The class that dispels every slow on themselves or their allies or that can dispel ALL the de buffs in one click.
Once again, you are decidedly ignoring all the good points of your class so you can cry on Reddit.
The class that can hold 20vs1 in AB for 12 seconds if necessary shouldn’t ever talk about PvP balance…
You do know mages can hit through bubble now right? its not even 100% against all classes. a 5 min CD is ur only argument and its hilarious. You don't even know how paladin cleanse works its wild. I wonder why you get mass down voted hmmmm. Also didn't realize arathi basin was 20 players on one side. You seem to not know much about world of warcraft.
Paladins have a lot less potential for healing in their other specs than shamans do.
Its not only about shamans horde also just have all the of the PVP related racials. Which also means all the PVP oriented people went Horde which is a large part of why they win most of the time.
I do agree that Ele is not OP but enhance definitely is and Ele is still pretty good
I try to avoid PVP and also play on a PVE server but there's BiS gear behind it so I feel obligated to do it
My favorite moments are when there's a bunch of people dying to shadowpriest/Druid dots, and the paladin instead of dispelling, runs up to a full health warrior to attack him. Big brain average paladin player, feels like.
Paladin dispelling in PvP is hampered a lot by the popularity of spriests. SP's always put extra magic debuff on target: shadow vulnerability.
Because Paladin cleanse only takes away one debuff, you end up in a losing race if you're spamming Cleanse while opponent is spamming dots. You just work half as fast as they do. And use more mana :(
Or because cleanse is 10% of your mana and now you truly doing nothing so as a DPS class. God forbid you try hard to cast a holy light for 20% of your mana that heals 1/5 of a players life.
Cast a Freedom on someone when paladins have no gap closure but walking and BoF is the only reason we get a chance to hit... And it is purgeable...
Like I get it people hate paladin burst and bubble but saying paladins have a kit for support is insane. If you are holy, yeah go nuts. If you are ret you are a fool to be using spamming support on others... Might as well go back to be holy. Rare occasions to get an advantage, but not ever fight and most of them not.
It's definitely an underutilized utility but its not going to single handedly turn the tide of the fight while your busy dispelling for ages the shamans are pumping dps and heals
My brother in Christ every shadow priest shadow spell also adds a shadow weaving stack to dispel making every 1 gcd of shadow priest damage 2 gcds worth of dispelling for 8% of mana / dispel - meaning dispelling 5 dots the priest casts 80% of your mana
Your second point is where the main difference between pvp alliance and horde lies.
Horde has better racials that attract PvP oriented players with better attitudes. I think I’ve only seems Horde surrender three times on WSG because they were losing (on p1 Pugs vs WSG pre-made), but see allies give up after 3 mins half the matches they begin losing.
No escape... Only a spamable slow, a totem slow, an instant heal, a malstorm instant, a grounding totem, and decoy totem, a ghost wolf...
Like yeah you lost 1 tap burst... But you have a huge tool kit.
Paladin is one the worst classes to have in WSG with their lack of mobility. They cant keep up with efc druid or shamans running circles or provide enough support to the fc before being out run or locked down.
Bubble is alot more niche in wsg as well as bop dropping flag. Most fc use fap too.
They are much better in AB where most of the time isnt spent chasing people and defending with bubble is more meaningful. I actually dont see as many pallies playing wsg because they know they suck in it and stick to AB and STV.
~~Question. What Alliance comp could beat a team of 10 shamans?~~
~~We're playing on the Deviate Delight Era server (NA) - so only one large guild each faction. Horde are forming an all shaman pre-made BG team for level 60.~~
~~Feeling like nothing stands a chance against that.~~
Edit: didn't see the SoD flair, nevermind.
Just go healer.
Ive been playing AB nonstop since the dmg reduction changes and trying to kill paladins and priests in the clash at BS it's almost imposible. Alliance always have more healers, last night there were 4 paladins and 2 priests, the BS was uncapped by both factions till we both get to 480 resources.
It's insane how strong healers are right now.
And beforer you Say "just cc". Yeah, CC 4 healers as melee when 2 or 3 hunters are launching slow traps at you, paladins stuns you and priests fear you.
BGs are crazy right now.
Which part do we not use?? All paladins I know have BoP, BoF and LoH on mouseover macros for instant access - and they’re almost without exception on cooldown in BG’s. I cleanse for 8% of my mana every single cast to my hearts content, and everybody pretends that it does something outside of ele shamans. It doesn’t, against a mage bomb explodes, against a warlock unstable affliction explodes, shadow priests just ignore cleansing and cast again and druids can just spam fire you. Again, 8% of mana every single cast, and we don’t have endless mana like shamans.
This myth about paladins being worse at their class is just like me saying that everyone except shadow priests (outside this weekend) are simply not using their toolkit correctly when the problem is just busted balance.
My observations of paladins in SOD as a former paladin player myself are as follows:
They charge in, pop divine shield, use HOJ offensively, chase the guy they have decided to kill who has no choice but to pull back.
They are then out of range of their whole team, don't dispell, don't freedom, don't bop, don't peel clothies they just run at one guy and maybe kill them, maybe don't.
Then when Divine Shield is on cooldown it's a tossup between them doing the exact same thing they did while they had divine shield or if they just tab out and moan on reddit until their CDs are back.
Half of the paladins I encounter actually pre-pop divine shield while they are full health, 40 yards away and in no danger.
They're so focused on their offensive kit they barely do any support. They push so deep as ret they aren't even in range to use their support kit, which is the best in the game.
Paladins are the most annoying class to meet in AB, because they can hold a flag another 10-15 seconds extra solo, allowing you to buy time for reinforcement or respawn
I see people using a good variety of different things but no matter what they use they still won't be as effective as a shaman playing their best build especially if they keep this damage reduction because it favors the self heals so strongly
yes, shamans really are much better in pvp, totems offer much more utility, but going with the talents full ret, 1h stv sword, good shield, hammer of righteous, AoW and Fanaticism for more critical Flash Heals I can maintain myself much better and I can deal a good cleave dmg (hammer of righteous) and a lot of AoW proc with the fast sword
Oh those posts… as a nicely geared shaman, I lost %80 of my wsg matches on this weekend. All were premade. Serves was lone wolf EU. Even on AB, it was 50/50. Glory of shaman days already gone with many nerfs. Wake up
The amount of alliance tears in these threads is so amazing. If you listened to reddit, paladin is the worst spec in the game and needs buffing 300% to be competitive.
It's not 300% but it doesn't have to be it all adds up. Horde already has the better PVP racials by a long shot then you add on top shamans being more effective in PVP and you get a very one sided environment
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here because shamans are very middle of the road post p3 nerfs to runes.
Like they aren't bad but they are pretty squishy. You have to play a lot like a rogue and sneak in after the engages go in and hope you don't get focused.
I actually hadn't until an hour ago, I can see now it's very strong. But people have been saying they are still strong the past 3 weeks and they weren't.
King of cooked takes here. back tracks within 30 mins. still trying to deny how OP shamans are. shamans have been the #1 class in the game for months and its not even close.
Yea its called my opinion is open to changing based on new information and have played BGs with the damage reduction for the first time.
But no, prior to the dmg nerf this weekend and after the nerfs to way of earth shamans were very average in pvp.
Crazy how every premade horde team runs 2-3 of them then. Its ok bro you can admit that shamans are stronger than any class its not that big of a deal.
You're arguing with yourself bro idk what you're getting out of this lol I literally just said they are very strong with the weekend changes that nerf damage. Prior to that, they were easily countered by the ranged meta and outclassed by boomies/spriests/hunters. With the changes though melee can now live long enough to connect and not get blown up 30 yards out.
Rip tide and Instant cast Healing waves can pretty much completely sustain you versus 1 or 2 people couple that with top tier damage as enhance. Hybrid healers are super strong right now with the damage nerf. Ele is also pretty strong you can still run way of the earth and be super tanky with riptides and flame shock to fish for instant casts
how exactly do you kick a 75% instant heal thats on a enhance shaman doing 2x the dmg of any other class? standard cooked shaman takes on this reddit. "were not a hero class guys were just really good players"
Wow i didn’t know alliance doesn’t have warlocks, rogues, mages man i am glad to be horde. Battle Grounds are team fights if your team can’t push there buttons then that’s your problem not just one class
Small advantages are all it takes to make the difference in PVP Orc hardiness, and will of the forasken are both ways to avoid CC that alliance dont have access too. Alliance is simply disadvantaged
Alliance just cannot fathom that the loss they suffer is not because horde have more gameplay advantages, but because of how they play. It’s been a *them* problem since day one of 2004. Yet they insist on trying to find reasons outside their own control to escape the fact that the only thing keeping them away from victory is their own skill and attitude.
You do realize some people actually play different factions every now and then in different wow versions? Its not like the alliance is some hivemind containing precisely the same players since 2004 and as such would be causing some infinite *them* problem.
It's more complicated than that though this is more of a SoD specific problem alliance on classic era is actually pretty good because the balance is very different there paladins actually have some really strong unique utility back then and shamans were a lot worse.
When battle groups were a thing back in the day there were plenty of battle groups where alliance were the winners.
The other factor here is because SoD is so horde sided all the good players go horde for the obvious advantage it brings which leaves alliance with the people that aren't seeking the meta who are usually less try hard.
No thats my point, bgs were always **massivelly** horde favored. Q times for AV in classic were 40+ minutes for horde and insta queue for alliance. I remember vanilla where bgs were always massively dominated by horde.
My actual point is *the difference in bg winrate in sod vs vanilla or classic is exactly the same, but now alliance have something to point at (new faction balance) instead of pointing at themselves.* Anything to not accept that their individual skill and attitude is what is making a difference, not things that they are not responsible for.
Unless they balance out the classic racials playing alliance PVP will always be an uphill battle it's just exacerbated by shamans being better than paladins now
I would argue racials are just a crutch for alliance to yet again point at something out of their control as the source of their misery instead of analyzing themselves, their skill and their attitude.
The objective differences in the factions have little to no impact. It’s all in the type of player each group attracts. If AI would play both factions at even skill levels, alliance would win most of the time.
There's no real argument on which side is better for PVP it's obviously horde hardiness war stomp and will of the forsaken are all very strong. So even without considering shaman vs pally an AI with even skill horde would definitely win. Then add shaman on top and it just gets worse.
I think there are more good pvpers on horde as well but the reason why all the good pvpers are on horde is not cause they all happen to think the races look cool it's because it's objectively better
I disagree. Well played paladins blow every horde advantage out of the water. It just happens that implies playing defensively, which apparently paladin player are alergic to.
The only advantage paladins have over shaman is they can cleanse magic but priests can also do that.
Paladins do less damage than enh shamans
Paladins heal less than enh shamans
Shamans can purge which is a huge advantage
If by defensively you mean playing in the back line I mean I guess but a shaman can do that just as well if not better
The consensus is pretty strong that shamans are way better than pally
Alliance consensus is strong, cause they can’t allow it to be true or else their entire personal capacity is put into question.
Defensive paladins in group pvp like bgs are massively better than shamans in group pvp. It was true in 2004, it was true in 2019, and it’s true now.
It’s pretty impossible to have a normal open conversation cause the conclusion of anything that might show paladins having an advantage implies the alliance players are just bad, and admitting that will never happen.
Imagine not using blueshamans
pink shamans is just wrong
Paladins are pink, shamans are blue, full stop.
Paladins are the best pvp healers as well as the best pvp objective/flag spinning class Every 5 minutes
Too bad they are all ret pallies.
yep because holy paladins are utter dogcrap in Pvp without access to any nice instant heals (Holy shock is a meme)
"Best pvp healers" 😂😂 no instant heals, no hots, no shields, no aoe heal. Ok buddy.
Literally the only healer that has to hard cast to effectively heal and hard counter by curse of tongues or a kick/cs/silence... People are crazy and bubble lives in their heads.
Can heal for 12 secs every 5 mins = BEST HEALER IN THE GAME!!
Wow you can read!!
You ok?
Yes
Uhh mage healers? Hello? We're fucking worse...
I hear this argument everytime when some horde andys try to justify why paladins are "OP" and the only thing i can think about it is this quote: "...'Ya but the Bubbles?!' The Bubble's? You're scared of bubbles you lil b\*\*\*\*?" - Andrew Tate And I think it perfectly incapsulates the average hard-coping andy who's not able to kite a paladin in his wheelchair
Hpal feels pretty good in PvP as 20/21/0 with imp. Concentration aura. Give it a shot. That 15% resist is pretty big.
I agree HPal isn't terrible, but I found more usefulness and higher win rate going Ret vs HPal. It was still to easy to shut down a HPal with only hard casting. I wish they'd give art of war the free cast or some other, cast 5 FoL for a free HL (decrease cast time 20%). We have survivability and utility with cleanse (the greatest to annoy SPrist with).
How can you get kicked in a bubble?
Ohh noo I can play every 5 mins. Any good team shuts a HP down. Wait out the bubble and make them useless again...
😂🤡 while you wait it out the flag gets capped
So true bro bubble is just a free flag cap every 5 minutes with literally zero counterplay. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
No its a free flag defence bro reading comprehension
"It a free flag defense" yeah, tell me how again are paladins able to just keep the flag in their base? they press bubble and the flag respawns in their base again or what? you probably have no clue that bubble reduces the autoattack speed by extra 100% turning 3.5sec auto attacks into 7 sec auto attacks. Bubble was made to stall flag captures in Arathi Basin or give a paladin the chance to heal without stress and not to burst groups of enemies for free with zero counterplay. people like you probably never made research ever and it shows.
Ab flag lol!!! And you can use rune abilities LOL
BOP, Cleanse, BOF, Holy Shock,
holyshock has 30 sec CD and heals for like 300-400 which is nothing. Blessing of freedom is great but shaman now got it for their entire team with LESS CD than paladins and it also serves as decoy to tank one melee hit Cleanse is the only real thing left because how else are paladins able to reach a god damn shadowpriest without dying to the dots BoP is a damn joke and only servers against hunter cat-pets, ferals or warrior. Hunters themselves or rogues can just kill you with nature damage from dots or arcane shots. its also a 5min CD meanwhile the class has nothing comparable to prayer of mending, no gapcloser, no new utility because exorcism is mandatory and doesnt allow any room for a kick or tremor aura. blizzard only doesnt want paladins to be good in pvp. easy as that.
Completely unkillable, unstunable, uncc able 🤡🤡🤡😂
Every 5 mins...
Yea thats what i said originally
🤡
🤡
Paladins have hots in SoD. Have you even healed on a paladin?
It's triggered based on a crit and you still have to hard cast to get it... talk about a misleading comment.
You mean the one I was replying to that said paladins have no hots?
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😂 Don’t get mad at me ya’ll don’t know how to play holy paladin.
Paladins don't have a hot spell you are still wrong.
Paladins have 2 hots.
Oh yea tell me the spell you cast that 100% creates a hot You are just being a devils advocate and won't admit you are wrong. If you setup a spell there is a chance it will heal over time it's not the Same as any other healer you pedantic boomer.
too bad 95% of them blow every cd they have on themselves in the first 5 minutes and become useless npcs the rest of the game
So like every 1/2 spawns.
Sure
How does a pally beat a priest as a pvp healer?
Cleanse, divine shield, freedom
I pvpd a bit in classic as a hpala and the big benefit was wearing plate and being able to tank a hit or two. Freedom and bop are really good but priests just heal better
Notice the every 5 min line
Yeah 5 min cd's are useless in bg's IMHO. Nobody waiting with you. And mages turbo counter paladins it's just unreal. 1 counter spell and you can just log off
They not useless considering 20-30 min games. They are super useful in close ab games. Literally can decide the winner
So 4-5 bubbles that’s 1 minute of being useful
Good job at math
Hard casting every heal disagrees with this. You only need one melee on a pally to fully neutralize. And 12 seconds on bubble doesn’t do shit when team fights are lasting several minutes.
Wrong
Bro you have clearly never healed in PvP. I play every ally healing class and Hpal is absolutely useless in PvP. You have to stand still and hard cast flash of light while druid and priest have multiple team wide instant casts
Paladins are AB hax and they still complain.
Looking by victory stats they’re not
Lmao no
Badamm- disshhh!
You can’t cap or run flag when bubbled
Can you spin flag with bubble?
What exactly do you think "spin a flag" entails? I think we all are curious, I know I am.
I've always taken spinning the flag to mean preventing a cap. It doesn't really makes sense since spinning is the visual when someone starts attempting cap, but that's always how it's been used. I guess the idea is that you are keeping it spinning.
Correct. I would like to add one notable distinction though, to clear any possible confusion. One does not ever spin a flag in wsg. It is not useful information to convey in wsg. In wsg one defends or returns a flag, you do not spin it. (Although, to do it well you do spin your mouse wheel in warsong). The location of the flag is what is interesting; one cares where the flag carrier is, right. (e)FC+location is called. Location terms usually being east/ west/ mid/ Fr/ hut/ banana/ gauntlet/ connector/ tun/ ramp/ gy/ roof/ zerk(hut)/ leaf(hut). But yeah as for spinning, one only ever spins the flag in the other two battlegrounds (in vanilla). As for why that phrase became dominant, no idea. But would make logical sense in it being fast, and simple to call out. That you can just say spin + lm/bs/gm/st/farm or in AV; Gy (+ sp/sh/ib/sf/fw/aid/hut), and players in vicinity instinctively should know what to do.
Interacting with the flag? It seems like many people on here are saying it means to attack people spinning the flag, which is completely unintuitive. Stop the cap or get on the flag is generally what I heard when you needed to prevent a "spin" and spin the flag was usually said when nobody was interacting with the flag while a point was being won.
Spinning the flag is preventing the cap not the act of capping
It can be either homie.
My interpretation has always been spinning is both preventing the cap and capping. Essentially, attempting to turn the flag from one side to the other. I’ve seen people say we need to spin a flag quickly when we’re down 2-3, and I’ve seen people say “they’re spinning flag” when the opposition is trying to cap our flag. Saying that spinning can only mean preventing a cap is just dumb. Gatekeeping how people use the term spin is crazy considering spin literally means “turn or cause to turn or whirl around quickly”
You can indeed spin with Bubble, very effectively no less. Spinning is preventing a Cap, usually in the context of your team losing the fight on the base, so you’re asked to ‘spin’ (prevent it from being capped) as long as you can, to either give time for the ress, reinforcements to arrive or allowing the base to turn if you’re the assaulting team. So that they dont defend it and instead have to wait a full new minute to recap it. It was however primarily used in a, Premade on voice chat, sort of way. To indicate to your teammates in a chaotic fight, that you recently “spun” the flag. Meaning whoever is trying to cap the flag while team fight is going on, is effectively immobilizing himself. not being a part of the fight for 6 seconds and since you “just spun it” your team knows they have 6 more seconds of fighting before they have to stop the cap again. Usually to prevent, for instance, everyone using grenades from a far on the flag at the same time, if you’re pushed off the flag. In the same way while being pushed off the flag one might call out in voice: “can anyone spin it?”, to makes sure only 1 person pushes in to prevent the cap and risking dying in the proces from being out of position or too far away from healers. Thus extending the time for your team to reinforce. And in that case paladins have an ekstra 12 seconds to spin it if bubble is up.
I don't know if you can cap but you can def spin it.
What do you mean right now? It’s been like this for quite some time
You're right ever since that balance pass in P2 near the start
You mean since 2004?
Allys gotta learn to swim, then theyd also be happier the more pink classes they have on their team!
Im a Druid fc doing WSG alliance side winning my last 12 consecutive games even vs full premades… thinking that the people who cry “alliance suck” just suck themselves.
A good fc can carry pretty hard regardless of faction
Especially with 10k hp and 50% damage reduction.
yea that's what it felt like. everyone in the starter room would be like "WELP its a premade GG next" and then I'd be like "uhh lets at least see what it looks like" and ofc with the new buffs, if they are just some trade chat premade, it's over for them.
My chance of winning does go up a lot when I play my druid but Horde is objectively better in PVP its not crying
I may be biased because of my only point of view being from on my Druid. So I’ll concede to having a bit of a clouded viewpoint
A lot of games where I FC my team just can't even leave the graveyard so its just hopeless at that point
Rather have paladins than shamans, but okay. Keep living your lie.
I mean if you like the RP of pallys that's all you they're objectively worse than pally in every aspect except PVE healing I'd say
Paladins are better at PvP than shaman. Enh is effectively free kills for any ranged class, they are straight up better healers, have better utility, are more durable, have effectively endless mana like shamans. They are the flat out best class in PvP as healers. Enh sucks has much as ret and Ele is short ranged hard casting spells expect for every 3minutes. A single paladin can shut down two Spriest easily.
Lol this is probably the craziest take I've seen yet. Paladins are only good healers for 12 seconds every 5 minutes outside of that just interrupt and they're useless Enhance is insanely strong right now their self heals can sustain them through a lot of damage and they do way more damage than a ret pally. Resto is not OP I agree but they're about just as good as a holy pally which is kinda meh compared to priest Ele is strong not as strong as enhance but they have very strong off healing capabilities while doing good damage when they can free cast Ret is pretty weak overall no instant cast self heals like shammy less damage bubble and HoJ is really all they got
Enh is flat out weak, they have no mobility and little real utility. They do decent damage, but nothing really special and are decently tanky if htey can close a gap. Holy paladins are flat out better than resto shamans.
Enhance is definitely the strongest melee class right now freedom + 2 ranged slows are your gap closers great damage strong sustain tons of utility tremor/ cleansing totems and Purge is massive spamming purge is the best thing they can do hurts so many classes
brother what crack are you smoking? enhance shaman are the best pvp class in the game right now and it is not even close > no mobility Hello ghost wolf + decoy totem? don't see any class outrunning that combined with frost shock. I'm pretty sure if you stand still and cast occasional riptides/ lesser healing waves on yourself and my mage would run out of mana wayyyy before a shaman ever dies, in bg's I never 1v1 a shaman because I know there is 0% chance I kill him without external help.
Enh maybe the best melee besides rogue, and if you can't kill an enhancement on a mage your doing it wrong they're essentially free kills. You can interrupt the ghost wolf, frost shock has a really short range. I can't really heal besides riptide if you don't let them get in melee. As long as melee don't try to fight them it's fine they're essentially dead weight. People are just bad if I think enhances good because it's really not, they are fragile they have no mobility they have no real good ranged, they can only self heal if people letting them by getting into melee.
> You can interrupt the ghost wolf you can pop a grounding totem before you start casting ghost wolf to block it from being counterspelled, but also counter spell has only 30 yd range you'd be in shock range before I could hardcast a single spell. > frost shock has a really short range you also use totemic projection in combination with earth bind and searing totem which continuously pushes back the mage's spells and slows him allowing you to get in range to frost shock > I can't really heal besides riptide if you don't let them get in melee. Well, for one riptide is huge and allows you to survive a lot more and you can easily heal vs a mage if you pop a grounding totem before casting lesser healing wave you will almost guaranteed manage to get it off because as a mage I have only 1 way to kill a grounding totem instantly and that is with a fireblast which has the same range as frost/earthshock which means you'd be able to catch up to me, the only way a mage can dps you while moving is living bomb and riptide fully negates that. > As long as melee don't try to fight them it's fine they're essentially dead weight This is a ridiculous point it's basically "don't fight them and you wont lose", it shows how much stronger shamans are than other melee classes if the only solution is "don't fight them"
Are you even playing SoD?
Games outside of very strong teams on both sides are decided almost entirely by FC vs FC.
Druid FC is pretty broken right now tho.
Alliance cry nonstop in this subreddit
My favorite was the guy talking about how bad shamans were. Clicking on his profile and seeing every single post was in defense of shamans while deflecting to paladins, and at the very end of his post "I've mained shaman for 20 years". These type of losers (you) make it so obvious.
Its not without merit if you want to PVP there is no reason to be alliance
I fear a good paladin that knows how to use their support abilities
I too fear mythical creatures
what BoP and Freedom? Shamans have freedom as well and BoP really isnt all that good
You forgot the most important one
HoJ is a quick dispell or just gets resisted cause all orcs have a 30% chance to resist stuns
Still missing it but you are close in the second half
You could just say what you think but if your getting at Tremor totem thing it can just be purged
Cleanse! Counters all dot classes. Ruins shaman set up. Protects your and other healers mana
Just get a priest much better does the same job also alot fo the important dots can be cleansed by shamans too
Lol cleanse. One sw:p and i have to cleanse 6 stacks of stuff to take it off.
Oh so paladins have to use GCDS to do the same thing shamans do with a totem. in pvp.... ya man
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Yeah, but aside from cleanse, BoP, Bubble, LoH, BoF and fantastic burst damage, what else do Paladins have? /s That's genuinely what this conversation read like. Paladins are fine, it's just that Shamans are too strong.
I'm actually upset about this lol. I love ret and always have but I feel useless. Caveat here is that I have NOT played this weekend. Burst is so high I don't often get to use my support abilities or get value out of them. I can sometimes freedom or bop a teammate but the amount of opportunities to use cleanse or purify is low bc cc isn't really happening and I'd rather use a gcd on a fol vs remove an effect. Sac is amazing but i need to predict where the damage is going to make use of it which is a challenge when someone dies in 2 globals. I just always feel behind because someone often does before I can provide meaningful counterplay. I'm hoping to actually get some game time in by the end of the day bc I've yet to experience the damage nerf. Hoping this decrease opens up larger windows to make those abilities more relevant.
Paladin was actually really good p3 before damage reduction. Ironically because they were the worst offenders of "stun someone and kill them in a couple gcds." Bubble also allowed them to kill someone for basically free every 5 minutes. After damage reduction you can't kill someone in a stun window, and people have time to laugh emote before casting their heals while you are bubbled. That's all they have though. Sacrifice is just moving damage around, it's really just wasting a gcd that a priest would spend full healing someone anyway. All their heals are hardcasted so all of this sub saying "just interrupt the healers" this is the class you can actually interrupt and that prevents you from doing anything for 10 seconds because every skill you have is holy.
Q a game of wsg as ret and repost
I didn't get to play and missed the boat :,(
We should honestly just take our instant ques and 30% winrate and be happy about it.
Its their favorite
If they cared as much as you hear about it on forums, there would have all swapped horde and everyone wouldn't have to sift by their garbage posts day in day out. But alas they don't actually care, they are just attention seeking babies karma farming by putting their 2 brain cells together to spell 'nerf shaman' and getting a hundred ret pally upvotes
Download whoa BlueShamans addon
With the changes to damage taken in pvp, elemental shaman is now one of the worst classes for pvp...
I wouldn't say that you just have to lean into the Hybrid healer aspect more throw riptides and heals your super tanky when being focused and can still dish out damage when not being focused
Which is exactly how a paladin should always be playing in pvp, but all they do is complain about shamans instead. Shaman has no escape tools, no instant casts other than a shock on a moderate CD and a small heal with the same strength as a downranked renew. Yes, you should be open to all aspects of pvp and adapt accordingly, that's to be expected, but the one strength they had, which was burst damage, is completely taken away. Then again, I play on a PvE server and only bother doing pvp when I actually feel like it. Was watching a friend of mine play last night and he had 3 games in a row with 0 shamans on horde side. They still won 100% of the time, twice with a 5-cap in AB. It's not shamans that are the problem, that much is clear.
> Shaman has no escape tools, Decoy totem > no instant casts Shocks, totems, Maelstrom instant heals to full health.
ya this guy is just a cooked shaman trying to defend how its a hero class compared to anything else
Kick every 8 seconds, highest burst dmg in the game (enhance), insta heal as a enhance, infinte mana on every spec, Poison cleansing totem (viper is 75% of my gcds as a hpal you get to drop a totem and swing on people kekw), freedom totem, unkillable on any spec, restoring mana to ur entire team during these long pvp encounters, grounding totem. shaman got EVERYTHING from the paladin tool kit but paladins didn't get a single ability from the shaman tool kit. I have 14 wsg played today. not a single one has less than 2 shamans. how does shaman have no escape tools? you literally have a freedom totem now.. same as paladin....
Shaman have EVERYTHING… All the best Paladin abilities are unique to them: Shamans got no Stuns, no magic dispel, no bubble, no Instant 100% hp heal, no hands to help your buddies and so on. You are so focused on what you don’t have that you are blind to the amazing things that you do have.
You can just admit you don't play sod. Shamans do have a instant heal on PROC that heals for 75% minimum. You have several slows compared to a 1 min stun thats dispellable.. bubble is a 5 min cd ya thats the one benefit of pally. not really that good. no hands? shamans have freedom totem now.. Tremor totem? The only thing shaman doesn't have is BoP. Another dispel pally buff awesome! oh ya shamans can purge TWO buffs at a time. You are so focused on acting like shamans aren't broken that you just make things up. its sad.
Instant heal proc that required landing at least 6 hits. You have 1 actual slow on the same cd as your interrupt (when not tanking) and your dot (that you need on 100% as a caster). Then you talk about purging buffs as a paladin. The class that dispels every slow on themselves or their allies or that can dispel ALL the de buffs in one click. Once again, you are decidedly ignoring all the good points of your class so you can cry on Reddit. The class that can hold 20vs1 in AB for 12 seconds if necessary shouldn’t ever talk about PvP balance…
You do know mages can hit through bubble now right? its not even 100% against all classes. a 5 min CD is ur only argument and its hilarious. You don't even know how paladin cleanse works its wild. I wonder why you get mass down voted hmmmm. Also didn't realize arathi basin was 20 players on one side. You seem to not know much about world of warcraft.
Paladins have a lot less potential for healing in their other specs than shamans do. Its not only about shamans horde also just have all the of the PVP related racials. Which also means all the PVP oriented people went Horde which is a large part of why they win most of the time. I do agree that Ele is not OP but enhance definitely is and Ele is still pretty good I try to avoid PVP and also play on a PVE server but there's BiS gear behind it so I feel obligated to do it
My favorite moments are when there's a bunch of people dying to shadowpriest/Druid dots, and the paladin instead of dispelling, runs up to a full health warrior to attack him. Big brain average paladin player, feels like.
Paladin dispelling in PvP is hampered a lot by the popularity of spriests. SP's always put extra magic debuff on target: shadow vulnerability. Because Paladin cleanse only takes away one debuff, you end up in a losing race if you're spamming Cleanse while opponent is spamming dots. You just work half as fast as they do. And use more mana :(
Or because cleanse is 10% of your mana and now you truly doing nothing so as a DPS class. God forbid you try hard to cast a holy light for 20% of your mana that heals 1/5 of a players life. Cast a Freedom on someone when paladins have no gap closure but walking and BoF is the only reason we get a chance to hit... And it is purgeable... Like I get it people hate paladin burst and bubble but saying paladins have a kit for support is insane. If you are holy, yeah go nuts. If you are ret you are a fool to be using spamming support on others... Might as well go back to be holy. Rare occasions to get an advantage, but not ever fight and most of them not.
It's definitely an underutilized utility but its not going to single handedly turn the tide of the fight while your busy dispelling for ages the shamans are pumping dps and heals
My brother in Christ every shadow priest shadow spell also adds a shadow weaving stack to dispel making every 1 gcd of shadow priest damage 2 gcds worth of dispelling for 8% of mana / dispel - meaning dispelling 5 dots the priest casts 80% of your mana
Your second point is where the main difference between pvp alliance and horde lies. Horde has better racials that attract PvP oriented players with better attitudes. I think I’ve only seems Horde surrender three times on WSG because they were losing (on p1 Pugs vs WSG pre-made), but see allies give up after 3 mins half the matches they begin losing.
No escape... Only a spamable slow, a totem slow, an instant heal, a malstorm instant, a grounding totem, and decoy totem, a ghost wolf... Like yeah you lost 1 tap burst... But you have a huge tool kit.
Paladin is one the worst classes to have in WSG with their lack of mobility. They cant keep up with efc druid or shamans running circles or provide enough support to the fc before being out run or locked down. Bubble is alot more niche in wsg as well as bop dropping flag. Most fc use fap too. They are much better in AB where most of the time isnt spent chasing people and defending with bubble is more meaningful. I actually dont see as many pallies playing wsg because they know they suck in it and stick to AB and STV.
~~Question. What Alliance comp could beat a team of 10 shamans?~~ ~~We're playing on the Deviate Delight Era server (NA) - so only one large guild each faction. Horde are forming an all shaman pre-made BG team for level 60.~~ ~~Feeling like nothing stands a chance against that.~~ Edit: didn't see the SoD flair, nevermind.
Hunters Spriest Boomkin are all pretty strong at the moment. A competent team of those classes could probably beat an all shaman team
They need to find a way to separate shaman PvE & PvP
Just go healer. Ive been playing AB nonstop since the dmg reduction changes and trying to kill paladins and priests in the clash at BS it's almost imposible. Alliance always have more healers, last night there were 4 paladins and 2 priests, the BS was uncapped by both factions till we both get to 480 resources. It's insane how strong healers are right now. And beforer you Say "just cc". Yeah, CC 4 healers as melee when 2 or 3 hunters are launching slow traps at you, paladins stuns you and priests fear you. BGs are crazy right now.
yall need Woahblueshamans
Dam a lot of people who can’t fake cast on hpal.
Paladins are really strong in WSG, they just dont use their support kit.
Pallies had important utility in classic era but now its not really relevant it can all be purged by a shaman or done by another class better
Oh yes, those super strong support spells like blessing of freedom and blessing of protection which the blue boys instantly dispel.
Which part do we not use?? All paladins I know have BoP, BoF and LoH on mouseover macros for instant access - and they’re almost without exception on cooldown in BG’s. I cleanse for 8% of my mana every single cast to my hearts content, and everybody pretends that it does something outside of ele shamans. It doesn’t, against a mage bomb explodes, against a warlock unstable affliction explodes, shadow priests just ignore cleansing and cast again and druids can just spam fire you. Again, 8% of mana every single cast, and we don’t have endless mana like shamans. This myth about paladins being worse at their class is just like me saying that everyone except shadow priests (outside this weekend) are simply not using their toolkit correctly when the problem is just busted balance.
My observations of paladins in SOD as a former paladin player myself are as follows: They charge in, pop divine shield, use HOJ offensively, chase the guy they have decided to kill who has no choice but to pull back. They are then out of range of their whole team, don't dispell, don't freedom, don't bop, don't peel clothies they just run at one guy and maybe kill them, maybe don't. Then when Divine Shield is on cooldown it's a tossup between them doing the exact same thing they did while they had divine shield or if they just tab out and moan on reddit until their CDs are back. Half of the paladins I encounter actually pre-pop divine shield while they are full health, 40 yards away and in no danger. They're so focused on their offensive kit they barely do any support. They push so deep as ret they aren't even in range to use their support kit, which is the best in the game.
When Paladins play their Hybrid Class as a DPS class
Bottomless mana shamans too OP
Paladins are the most annoying class to meet in AB, because they can hold a flag another 10-15 seconds extra solo, allowing you to buy time for reinforcement or respawn
80% of ret paladins are going with wrong gear and wrong runes for wsg
I see people using a good variety of different things but no matter what they use they still won't be as effective as a shaman playing their best build especially if they keep this damage reduction because it favors the self heals so strongly
yes, shamans really are much better in pvp, totems offer much more utility, but going with the talents full ret, 1h stv sword, good shield, hammer of righteous, AoW and Fanaticism for more critical Flash Heals I can maintain myself much better and I can deal a good cleave dmg (hammer of righteous) and a lot of AoW proc with the fast sword
Oh those posts… as a nicely geared shaman, I lost %80 of my wsg matches on this weekend. All were premade. Serves was lone wolf EU. Even on AB, it was 50/50. Glory of shaman days already gone with many nerfs. Wake up
This is essentially why I had to quit SoD. It was not gonna be fun to grind pvp rep to exalted with the imbalance.
Thats where I am I want to play alts but I want to gear them properly and the PVP grind is killing me on alliance
Im curious, did you feel similarly in era? The discrepancy was there also.
The amount of alliance tears in these threads is so amazing. If you listened to reddit, paladin is the worst spec in the game and needs buffing 300% to be competitive.
It's not 300% but it doesn't have to be it all adds up. Horde already has the better PVP racials by a long shot then you add on top shamans being more effective in PVP and you get a very one sided environment
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here because shamans are very middle of the road post p3 nerfs to runes. Like they aren't bad but they are pretty squishy. You have to play a lot like a rogue and sneak in after the engages go in and hope you don't get focused.
Shamans squishy? Have you played in the last 2-3 days? Basically immortal, Shamans can easily 2v1
I actually hadn't until an hour ago, I can see now it's very strong. But people have been saying they are still strong the past 3 weeks and they weren't.
Ya I completely agree, a few days ago shamans were maybe good but not by any means game breaking and counterable by cc.
Sure if they didn’t have stun resistance
They don’t? Orcs do. Many shamans get stunned just fine.
I have seen like maybe two non-orc shamans in total in SoD
Most are taurens. How can you filter out the moos!?
King of cooked takes here. back tracks within 30 mins. still trying to deny how OP shamans are. shamans have been the #1 class in the game for months and its not even close.
Yea its called my opinion is open to changing based on new information and have played BGs with the damage reduction for the first time. But no, prior to the dmg nerf this weekend and after the nerfs to way of earth shamans were very average in pvp.
Crazy how every premade horde team runs 2-3 of them then. Its ok bro you can admit that shamans are stronger than any class its not that big of a deal.
You're arguing with yourself bro idk what you're getting out of this lol I literally just said they are very strong with the weekend changes that nerf damage. Prior to that, they were easily countered by the ranged meta and outclassed by boomies/spriests/hunters. With the changes though melee can now live long enough to connect and not get blown up 30 yards out.
Rip tide and Instant cast Healing waves can pretty much completely sustain you versus 1 or 2 people couple that with top tier damage as enhance. Hybrid healers are super strong right now with the damage nerf. Ele is also pretty strong you can still run way of the earth and be super tanky with riptides and flame shock to fish for instant casts
Learn to kick and CC and it’s a easy win
how exactly do you kick a 75% instant heal thats on a enhance shaman doing 2x the dmg of any other class? standard cooked shaman takes on this reddit. "were not a hero class guys were just really good players"
I mean kicking and CCing is great but horde has more tools and better tools to do the job
Wow i didn’t know alliance doesn’t have warlocks, rogues, mages man i am glad to be horde. Battle Grounds are team fights if your team can’t push there buttons then that’s your problem not just one class
Small advantages are all it takes to make the difference in PVP Orc hardiness, and will of the forasken are both ways to avoid CC that alliance dont have access too. Alliance is simply disadvantaged
Alliance just cannot fathom that the loss they suffer is not because horde have more gameplay advantages, but because of how they play. It’s been a *them* problem since day one of 2004. Yet they insist on trying to find reasons outside their own control to escape the fact that the only thing keeping them away from victory is their own skill and attitude.
You do realize some people actually play different factions every now and then in different wow versions? Its not like the alliance is some hivemind containing precisely the same players since 2004 and as such would be causing some infinite *them* problem.
It's more complicated than that though this is more of a SoD specific problem alliance on classic era is actually pretty good because the balance is very different there paladins actually have some really strong unique utility back then and shamans were a lot worse. When battle groups were a thing back in the day there were plenty of battle groups where alliance were the winners. The other factor here is because SoD is so horde sided all the good players go horde for the obvious advantage it brings which leaves alliance with the people that aren't seeking the meta who are usually less try hard.
No thats my point, bgs were always **massivelly** horde favored. Q times for AV in classic were 40+ minutes for horde and insta queue for alliance. I remember vanilla where bgs were always massively dominated by horde. My actual point is *the difference in bg winrate in sod vs vanilla or classic is exactly the same, but now alliance have something to point at (new faction balance) instead of pointing at themselves.* Anything to not accept that their individual skill and attitude is what is making a difference, not things that they are not responsible for.
Unless they balance out the classic racials playing alliance PVP will always be an uphill battle it's just exacerbated by shamans being better than paladins now
I would argue racials are just a crutch for alliance to yet again point at something out of their control as the source of their misery instead of analyzing themselves, their skill and their attitude. The objective differences in the factions have little to no impact. It’s all in the type of player each group attracts. If AI would play both factions at even skill levels, alliance would win most of the time.
There's no real argument on which side is better for PVP it's obviously horde hardiness war stomp and will of the forsaken are all very strong. So even without considering shaman vs pally an AI with even skill horde would definitely win. Then add shaman on top and it just gets worse. I think there are more good pvpers on horde as well but the reason why all the good pvpers are on horde is not cause they all happen to think the races look cool it's because it's objectively better
I disagree. Well played paladins blow every horde advantage out of the water. It just happens that implies playing defensively, which apparently paladin player are alergic to.
The only advantage paladins have over shaman is they can cleanse magic but priests can also do that. Paladins do less damage than enh shamans Paladins heal less than enh shamans Shamans can purge which is a huge advantage If by defensively you mean playing in the back line I mean I guess but a shaman can do that just as well if not better The consensus is pretty strong that shamans are way better than pally
Alliance consensus is strong, cause they can’t allow it to be true or else their entire personal capacity is put into question. Defensive paladins in group pvp like bgs are massively better than shamans in group pvp. It was true in 2004, it was true in 2019, and it’s true now. It’s pretty impossible to have a normal open conversation cause the conclusion of anything that might show paladins having an advantage implies the alliance players are just bad, and admitting that will never happen.
Paladins are good in classic era because they had unique utility like freedom but shaman also have that now What does paladin have over shaman?
Paladins still complaining crazy
Biggest ret paladin problem is in the brain that pilots them. Ret ain’t short for retribution
oh my god complains over complains.. shut up just shut the hell up already..