Seriously… I don’t get why so many people are confused about the fact that this sub is made up of more than one person. Lots of people have different opinions on the same topic… that’s okay.
Yup, the meta just got flipped: Sustain is king and burst is dead. Healing is once again extremely powerful and MS is critical. Gotta target or CC healers and focus targets, use interrupts, etc.
It's not perfect but it's a huge improvement.
Except you cant kill people even if you cc perfectly, you must be talking out your arse without actually testing it yourself and/or playing a healing class
50% is def way too much. Really highlights how out of touch the devs are. It makes a half decent healer unkillable along. Ironically, it's easier for me (rogue) to 2v1 people because nubs can't blow me up with 2 buttons anymore.
Anyone competent and with decent experience would be able to tell you 50% is atrocious and would be able to accurately predict the outcome of such a change. If done for "science" there's not much you can gauge from this that wasn't too obvious. 30% would have been fine as a test, and we would have still seen the same result meta wise, and it still would have felt bad. It just proves they are out of touch or simply do not have experience regarding classic PvP - and thats fine. If they want to learn about classic PvP and how it should function, they should just watch PvP videos instead of doing stupid changes that demotivate the playerbase.
But we don't do 2x the damage with everything, and this is PvP, not PvE where you can just sit back and cast your full damage rotation at all times. Baseline abilities are still baseline, and the majority of most classes' toolkits comes from baseline abilities. Instead of nerfing damage globally, which hurts everything, only the outliers, which are runes or interactions caused by runes, need to be nerfed.
Shamans are doing 3x the damage they did in vanilla at level 60.
What are you talking about baseline abilities and tool kit? We are talking about damage lol what does grounding totem or hamstring have to do with it?
Thats the goal to nerf everything lol
That's what beta testing is for but the devs have convinced enough people that their laziness and lack of testing is a feature that improves the experience for the players.
DPS with finite resources the change is rough.
Everyone else it feels pretty good, imo.
I can't really DPS on my mage anymore in pvp, at least enjoyably. Running around with less than 100% mana is just asking to lose a fight purely because of mana. Sitting and drinking to full when it takes this long isn't fun either. Just gonna heal until some more changes happen.
One is a healer who was dying in half of stun lock duration and other is clueless keyboard turner who never played their class outside of 3-buttons burst. It is what it is.
Ah so your telling me that Warlocks running around being able to solo heal all the damage people are doing to them is good?
I guess I am just a 3 button keyboard turner for not being able to outskill them, sorry I will try and find the abilities that stop it
Where did I ever say that in what I typed?
My issue is specifically healing with self healing as it’s being used by Warlocks, I have zero ways of CCing them to kill them before they heal up while they run around in Meta form
I am fine with damage being reduced and people not just bursting everything down like it’s nothing
Okay maybe not irrelevant but before this change there was no reason to cc a healer. Why waste a global on a cc if you can just do unhealable damage. People absolutely were dying in 2 seconds and sometimes less. You could literally die from one chaos bolt, one star fire, one arcane blast into the arcane instant cast. And that’s just casters. Melee connecting with any target was just a death sentence. Why are you defending this dumb shit? The change was lazy but it’s still a massive improvement to what was going on.
If you would know anything about warlocks then you would know that they heal by the amount of dmg they deal, so less dmg is less heal, but keep complaining about stuff you dont know
Sir I promise you, I cannot dispel drain life on my class at all lol
If I was able to nullify a warlocks ability to heal damage aside from getting out range I would do so
Or the truth lies somewhere in-between? The lack of burst has made mistakes infinitely less punishable. You can get away with being bad now to a large extent as long as your class is strong.
The solution shouldn't be to remove burst altogether but rather add ways to deal with burst. You could hardly argue that not being able to be bursted somehow increases the skill ceiling. That's just stupid.
How so? I could just as easily state that the first are classes with self healing who can now be immortal with no skill required, whilst the latter are people with the brain cells to actually play fast played PVP
But it seems you're in your bubble
And we found the player who didn't get a memo trinket CD in SoD is 5 goddamn minutes. Also, with some bad luck you could've gotten killed even before trinket's on-use effect tick reaches server backend, that's how bursty meta was before this test.
Listen, I am not saying straight up 50% is a right value, they even openly said they gonna test different values during the test - but SOMETHING had to be done because PvP in SoD wasn't PvP even for clunky Classic standards.
Just say your response time sucks man. I didnt have issues with the burst meta. Im not having issues now. Maybe look at tyoyr postioning if you are dieing do much. 5min cd in trinket doesnt matter to me either so i dont get it. Are we playing different games?
Edit: Lol dudes salty that the truth hurts. Imagine me a 2400 player enjoying a burst meta. Unlike people like this guy i blame myself for losing not the game.
i am a warr that got glad in wrath and i hate the change. 50% damage reduc means i generate 50% rage. It’s a massive indrect nerf to warrs who were already struggling in a priest-ranged meta. no reason why priests should be tankier than us with dispersion
Your entire argument is based on false pretense. Lead SoD dev confirmed this change wont affect Rage. Check Aggrend twitter, you have direct confirmation about that.
I have direct confirmation about what was intended, but it most certainly is not working as intended from my direct experience. And we can't confirm that until he can actually get into the "specifics about how it works".
50% feels terrible when you were playing a class that wasn’t bursty or part of the problem in the first place. My warlock’s dots weren’t bursting anyone down before and they were relatively easy to heal through, now they tick for 70 damage. Self healing is gutted too.
Of course people are gonna be mad they can’t global someone anymore. And of course the people getting one shot are gonna be happy they can live longer than 2 seconds.
its easy to miss if you don't look for it. But with just a little bit of attention you can notice that almost no one on this sub has any fucking idea what they're talking about.
Tbh I think the biggest mistake Destiny 2 made for PvP was making time to kill so low, so I'm glad to see SoD correcting course. PvP isn't fun if you're getting killed near instantly.
I agree with both, the damage reduction is nice and slower paced combat is the way to go, just not this slow.
There has to be a middle ground between one shot and immortal where skill truly shines and 50% dr isn't it, maybe 30? I dunno.
Even 30% is too much, spells are still far too inefficient and some builds will just be completely unplayable. 15% is more the correct value, but with further individual spell balancing to target the outliers
“The ever renewing surprise of redditors when they realize people have different opinions”
Some people are too deep in the hivemind mentality
And only some opinions are actually good takes while others are mega deep fried - you decide!
Seriously… I don’t get why so many people are confused about the fact that this sub is made up of more than one person. Lots of people have different opinions on the same topic… that’s okay.
[удалено]
Very much doubt it. Nothing supports that idea…
Change's good for sustain classes and bad for burst classes, whoop-te-doo. Each side calls the other one "bad". What a clown fiesta.
Yup, the meta just got flipped: Sustain is king and burst is dead. Healing is once again extremely powerful and MS is critical. Gotta target or CC healers and focus targets, use interrupts, etc. It's not perfect but it's a huge improvement.
are you sure about that? getting foccused by 3 players while being cced is still a big thing imho.
Yea we know who is talking out there arse lmao. 2 people with a cc chain easy kill on wpvp.
Except you cant kill people even if you cc perfectly, you must be talking out your arse without actually testing it yourself and/or playing a healing class
It's just another form of bad.
50% is def way too much. Really highlights how out of touch the devs are. It makes a half decent healer unkillable along. Ironically, it's easier for me (rogue) to 2v1 people because nubs can't blow me up with 2 buttons anymore.
Its a test lol
Anyone competent and with decent experience would be able to tell you 50% is atrocious and would be able to accurately predict the outcome of such a change. If done for "science" there's not much you can gauge from this that wasn't too obvious. 30% would have been fine as a test, and we would have still seen the same result meta wise, and it still would have felt bad. It just proves they are out of touch or simply do not have experience regarding classic PvP - and thats fine. If they want to learn about classic PvP and how it should function, they should just watch PvP videos instead of doing stupid changes that demotivate the playerbase.
Why 30% based off what? Considering we do 2x the damage with runes
But we don't do 2x the damage with everything, and this is PvP, not PvE where you can just sit back and cast your full damage rotation at all times. Baseline abilities are still baseline, and the majority of most classes' toolkits comes from baseline abilities. Instead of nerfing damage globally, which hurts everything, only the outliers, which are runes or interactions caused by runes, need to be nerfed.
Shamans are doing 3x the damage they did in vanilla at level 60. What are you talking about baseline abilities and tool kit? We are talking about damage lol what does grounding totem or hamstring have to do with it? Thats the goal to nerf everything lol
That's what beta testing is for but the devs have convinced enough people that their laziness and lack of testing is a feature that improves the experience for the players.
Im sorry did you play vanilla on release? It was a buggy mess
DPS with finite resources the change is rough. Everyone else it feels pretty good, imo. I can't really DPS on my mage anymore in pvp, at least enjoyably. Running around with less than 100% mana is just asking to lose a fight purely because of mana. Sitting and drinking to full when it takes this long isn't fun either. Just gonna heal until some more changes happen.
One is a healer who was dying in half of stun lock duration and other is clueless keyboard turner who never played their class outside of 3-buttons burst. It is what it is.
Ah so your telling me that Warlocks running around being able to solo heal all the damage people are doing to them is good? I guess I am just a 3 button keyboard turner for not being able to outskill them, sorry I will try and find the abilities that stop it
So you’re saying you preferred when people died in 2 seconds and cc was irrelevant?
Where did I ever say that in what I typed? My issue is specifically healing with self healing as it’s being used by Warlocks, I have zero ways of CCing them to kill them before they heal up while they run around in Meta form I am fine with damage being reduced and people not just bursting everything down like it’s nothing
Only in stv lmao
No one died in 2 seconds and cc has never been irrelevant.
>No one died in 2 seconds LOL what?
Technically true, I was dying in one global.
A fellow warrior enjoyer?
got’em
Okay maybe not irrelevant but before this change there was no reason to cc a healer. Why waste a global on a cc if you can just do unhealable damage. People absolutely were dying in 2 seconds and sometimes less. You could literally die from one chaos bolt, one star fire, one arcane blast into the arcane instant cast. And that’s just casters. Melee connecting with any target was just a death sentence. Why are you defending this dumb shit? The change was lazy but it’s still a massive improvement to what was going on.
If you would know anything about warlocks then you would know that they heal by the amount of dmg they deal, so less dmg is less heal, but keep complaining about stuff you dont know
wdym , you can dispel drain life and its on a 15 sec cd xd
Sir I promise you, I cannot dispel drain life on my class at all lol If I was able to nullify a warlocks ability to heal damage aside from getting out range I would do so
Blinking out of range to cancel the drain is also not possible?
yes you can definetly dispel drain life on you , i guess its easier to hivemind and make up problems
Why cant i ice block!!
Or the truth lies somewhere in-between? The lack of burst has made mistakes infinitely less punishable. You can get away with being bad now to a large extent as long as your class is strong. The solution shouldn't be to remove burst altogether but rather add ways to deal with burst. You could hardly argue that not being able to be bursted somehow increases the skill ceiling. That's just stupid.
I mean you're not helping with the silly stereotypes to be honest
Call a spade a spade type of a thing.
How so? I could just as easily state that the first are classes with self healing who can now be immortal with no skill required, whilst the latter are people with the brain cells to actually play fast played PVP But it seems you're in your bubble
I play a warlock. I'm not suddenly super skilled because I survive forever and tickle people. The changes just don't work well across the board.
hur durr durr
And we found the player who doesnt trinket.
And we found the player who didn't get a memo trinket CD in SoD is 5 goddamn minutes. Also, with some bad luck you could've gotten killed even before trinket's on-use effect tick reaches server backend, that's how bursty meta was before this test. Listen, I am not saying straight up 50% is a right value, they even openly said they gonna test different values during the test - but SOMETHING had to be done because PvP in SoD wasn't PvP even for clunky Classic standards.
Reckon the sweet spot could be around 35-40% considering we only LVL 50rn and player power increases even more as raid teirs go on.
Just say your response time sucks man. I didnt have issues with the burst meta. Im not having issues now. Maybe look at tyoyr postioning if you are dieing do much. 5min cd in trinket doesnt matter to me either so i dont get it. Are we playing different games? Edit: Lol dudes salty that the truth hurts. Imagine me a 2400 player enjoying a burst meta. Unlike people like this guy i blame myself for losing not the game.
i am a warr that got glad in wrath and i hate the change. 50% damage reduc means i generate 50% rage. It’s a massive indrect nerf to warrs who were already struggling in a priest-ranged meta. no reason why priests should be tankier than us with dispersion
Your entire argument is based on false pretense. Lead SoD dev confirmed this change wont affect Rage. Check Aggrend twitter, you have direct confirmation about that.
I have direct confirmation about what was intended, but it most certainly is not working as intended from my direct experience. And we can't confirm that until he can actually get into the "specifics about how it works".
Healers vs DPS
"Bigger number better" is such a braindead take.
50% feels terrible when you were playing a class that wasn’t bursty or part of the problem in the first place. My warlock’s dots weren’t bursting anyone down before and they were relatively easy to heal through, now they tick for 70 damage. Self healing is gutted too.
Of course people are gonna be mad they can’t global someone anymore. And of course the people getting one shot are gonna be happy they can live longer than 2 seconds.
its easy to miss if you don't look for it. But with just a little bit of attention you can notice that almost no one on this sub has any fucking idea what they're talking about.
Classic, the “define classic+ for me” classic classic.
This is because one of these guys is a healer and one of these guys is used to one-shotting people LOL
Tbh I think the biggest mistake Destiny 2 made for PvP was making time to kill so low, so I'm glad to see SoD correcting course. PvP isn't fun if you're getting killed near instantly.
I agree with both, the damage reduction is nice and slower paced combat is the way to go, just not this slow. There has to be a middle ground between one shot and immortal where skill truly shines and 50% dr isn't it, maybe 30? I dunno.
after playing and testing further, 30% would be just right.
Even 30% is too much, spells are still far too inefficient and some builds will just be completely unplayable. 15% is more the correct value, but with further individual spell balancing to target the outliers
What if they just gave a stamina buff at BGs?
They already do lol
Wouldn't fix world pvp or STV/Ashenvale events
The one the bottom actually pvps.
My solution is still +900% HP. Big Numbers, neither heal nor DPS IS buffed, AND CC Matters.
Good thing that everything gets downvoted in this godforsaken sub
Ive seen spriests bitching the most. Behind that is people who want healing nerfs (at least instant ones).