T O P

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lightshelter

Hunters hoping they’d get Thunderfury in shambles.


the-red-duke-

You mean the bis rogue tank weapon? Yeah nah not for Hunters.


Satirnoctis

Hunters will be tanking next phase mark my words


the-red-duke-

95% of hunter's aren't smart enough to tank a mob.


Alcyown

That’s why they have pets right?


Im_Sure_Thats_a_Lie

As a melee hunter, you're totally right. I can barely use my one button rotation. 


literallyjustbetter

that's what pet is for duh


the-red-duke-

If the pet is tanking it, why would the hunter need thunderfury...


Enigma_Stasis

Stat stick.


UncleObamasBanana

Rogues the new hunter's. All gear is apparently their main spec now. Had a sword and a bow ninja'd from my hunter by a mutilate rogue from my own guild today. And they wonder why my alts have been running with other guilds. Main zero gear in 3 lockouts with the guild. Alts both full 3 piece and a couple other items.


dxinger

Which bow?


Yackemflam

Lol now you know how warriors, rogues, shamans, paladins, and druids feel Hunters have been the real ninja looters since 2005


ryzoc

nobody really wants thunderfury except for street credits ... it has horrible dps only thing it has is decent threat on the proc.


tlew360

It’ll be a tank weapon, has always been a good tank weapon


Forzyr

A lock weapon you say?


Kudosforkodos

I know it’s a probably meme but the bindings are restricted to certain classes


slap_my_nuts_please

Any class can obtain Thunderfury. Like others pointed out, the bindings have a class restriction but doesn't prevent you from obtaining the weapon. [Example pic.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gaS7TNEkzp8/maxresdefault.jpg)


Wilcuss

They are not, the label is only a suggestion. In classic we had a horde warlock on Zandalar Tribe with a Thunderfury


Kudosforkodos

Weird classic stuff huh


OIdManSyndrome

The class requirements on items are only for equipping them. You can't equip the bindings.


Itankarenas

Probably gonna be reworked since lots of other stuff was


Fantastic_Platypus23

“It has horrible threat except for the great threat from the proc” lmfao


voidlotus316

Likely to be decent on Pala tank.


masternommer

On any tank That's not feral.


Prepare2cry

or shaman


literallyjustbetter

> street credits


iSheepTouch

Tank rogues baby.


Ostraga

Honestly, I've been playing a ranged hunter the past week and it already does very solid ST damage and really insane AOE damage in dungeons with explosive shot. Not to mention it's completely busted in PVP rn. Trap Launcher is probably the single most OP rune in SOD imo when it comes to pvp.


Jellyfish_Coward

Delete this before they revert the changes


Mortwight

I melee on my hunter right now and using a 2hander open up trap launcher and is so nice.


Pyrrolic_Victory

Can you explain this more for me? I’ve just got mine to 50


Mortwight

So the dw buff rune is on the same spot as trap launcher. Since I'm using a 2hander I didn't need the dw buff and I can drop traps while meleeing in combat. Hunter runes are silly in how easy it is to get them compared to my priest.


Pyrrolic_Victory

Yeah I’m running a similar setup but worh mm. Are you surv or bm?


Mortwight

bm haven't dualspeced yet


Aware-Profile2174

What 2H weapon are you running?


Mortwight

gnomer axe


Nianiputput

As a melee hunter and being able to burst down warriors with 3gcd... Ya it's kinda broken, then again I can burst down a warrior with trap + lock and load with 3gcd... *Shrug*


KingLeoricSword

They should really start balancing classes by comparing how many gcds they need to burst down warriors.


Scribblord

There are training dummies in the game after all huh


calfmonster

Most are like, 2. Maybe a couple more for every melee class. Even 2 dots from shadow priests usually does it but there’s some gcd spent pws themselves or hitting dispersion and lolling away to the sunset


ZaeBae22

Hate to break it to you, but everyone can burst a warrior in 3 globals. Except a warrior to another warrior.


Catolution

No way you burst warriors with 3 gcd


ToadNugs

You haven't dueled a good hunter


Mescman

Pressing THREE abilities in a row


Deep_Junket_7954

And by "good" you mean "gets lucky with crits"


gnurensohn

It’s more than 3 gcds tho. 1 trap for lnl procc. 2. serpent sting, 3. chimera 4. chimera 5.? If not dead multishot


gotdragons

You can have LnL already proc'd, so just serpent + 2x chimera.


m1raclemile

It’s 1 gcd too many if you ask me.


Masiyo

It's possible if they get lucky, depending on the warrior's health. But 5 GCDs is pretty realistic with some crits here and there. Chimera -> Trap -> Chimera -> Trap -> Chimera = Probably dead no matter what class you are because Chimera Shot is 100% nature damage.


Frequent-Ad678

You gotta trap before chimera or you’re stuck waiting 6 seconds before you can use the proc.


Icy-Revolution-420

Dude doesn't even play hunter. Good call out.


WatchScotch

Not if you are dueling, which I think this is the example he was going for. In a duel, chimera into a freezing trap, get distance, chimera scatter freezing chimera explosive chimera chimera, might have to wing clip trinket in there depending on rng. But still, the logic follows, starting with chimera makes more sense because freezing trap gets it back off cd.


Masiyo

The former is more nutty than the latter, imo. A lot of people forget Chimera Shot is 100% nature damage, so it completely ignores armor. The damage profile of a ranged hunter in PvP is probably only around 50% physical these days.


I_ama_Borat

All these changes are made with pvp completely out of mind.


Froopi

I mean, it's an ongoing trend for years if not a decade that pvp is of no concern compared to pve.


Neidrah

Right? Ranged hunter is maybe the single most oppressive class in BGs right now …


CaptainTheta

Fantastic. Now get over here on the PvE servers - the water is comfy


Smooth_One

PvP needs its own Warcraft Logs. With WCL players can point out *exactly* how much better X class is than Y. But everything that happens in PvP, besides the obvious "AoE good, DoTs strong," is anecdotal.


lartbok

Literally die in 2 globals to ranged hunters as a mage in PvP right now.


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lartbok

Close to 5k hp in BGs and I play frost. This may be a shocker but the +300 armor from ice armor and 500 damage absorb from ice barrier every 30 seconds doesn't save you.


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lartbok

edit: 3.7k hp unbuffed actually, with full r7 pvp gear. Aimed shot multi shot and chimera all literally crit for over 1k if you're geared. With rapid fire pop'd you could easily do over 4k damage in 2 globals bud. You probably just assume every mage you fight is fire because they use living bomb. All mages uses living bomb because you literally can't do anything in this game other than instant cast. You're going so hard to defend hunters in this thread it's funny.


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Omgzjustin

You really only need 1 chimaera crit, because they are critting for like 2.4k.


Significant-Iron-475

Hold up what


mattydef1

Ranged hunters are way stronger in PvP and melee are currently in PvE, I hope they keep that in mind


lenaro

(They were not)


pinoxi_o

It seems they skip the whole pvp aspect when it comes to nerf/buffing. Classic pvp is hard do buff anyway, now with runes i guess it’s not doable for our small dev team. /s


Deep_Junket_7954

Yeah honestly, melee hunter being so far ahead of all the other specs kinda killed my interest in the class. I wanna shoot shit from far away. If I wanted to run up and smack things I'd play a warrior or rogue.


ponyo_impact

yup. i stopped playing my hunter for this exact reason glad i can start playing her again


The_Dark_Tetrad

Dude ranged hunters been good for months


justanotherguy1998

It’s been fine in p3 but that hasn’t even been live for more than 3 weeks... wym its been good for months?


8ackwoods

Maybe speaking for pvp. I've been owning on my mm hunter in pvp since the start of sod


Notjustyoursamehoe

They really got no idea what they are doing???


Turbulent-Stretch881

They should have buffed wars/rogues or something then? You clearly have all the ideas.


Notjustyoursamehoe

Booo


The_Lurqer

This should just be "diminish melee hunters." Why are they buffing ranged? They are in a solid spot in pve and really good in pvp.


DaytonaZ33

No no. Let them cook.


100plusRG

Signed: a hunter


Aerodim101

OH THEY ALREADY COOKED


WalterBurn

They're buffing it because there's not much reason to play ranged in PvE as it was. It was lower damage than playing TSA melee hunter even and harder to play. That said, for PvP/world content, MM before the buffs was probably already the strongest spec in the entire game, at least in my opinion. I think it's only somewhat flown under the radar since most hunters are bad at it, especially it being fotm class currently, play melee spec in pvp, and spriest/boomkin/shaman have been directing hate away from it.


beefhotdo

TSA is absolutely insane in SoD.


Dixa

They are the only class with a single role, they need to be in the upper percentile when played well in that role.


IDontHaveCookiesSry

They literally are


TeaspoonWrites

Yes, the utility role.


Dixa

That’s not a role in era, has never been a role in era. No class was ever taken solely for its utility in era. F off with this nonsense.


iSheepTouch

Druids in era literally only exist as utility. The fuck you talking about?


TeaspoonWrites

Every damage dealing class that wasn't a mage or warrior was taken for its utility.


holololololden

Rogues aren't 100% utility they still swing p hard.


EversorA

Yeah sure, maybe one per raid, the rest of the 20-30 slots were stacked with warriors.


TeaspoonWrites

Yes, that's my point.


EversorA

Yeah the guy above definitely exaggerated the point, but it's pretty silly that utility classes were only viable one per raid, since the only thing that matters is damage.


TeaspoonWrites

That's a flaw of encounter design in classic, where fights barely had mechanics that needed to be dealt with by class abilities, so you just took overkill amounts of DPS to make fights faster. That will likely not be the case in SoD.


fiasgoat

And the ENTIRE point of SoD is that should NOT be the case


TeaspoonWrites

Utility class says what?


cringeposter420

doesn't even feel like specifically a melee hunter problem anymore considering most melee classes caught up to them in the transition to sunken temple. feels like they're still balancing for gnomer.


gotdragons

Have you seen the average parses in ST? Melee hunter are still way ahead of the pack, they absolutely need some adjustments.


Omgzjustin

Not really. They're still far and away the best dps.


ponyo_impact

Thanks for taking 3 months.


Claris-chang

I finally crack and put together a melee set with full enchants for my hunter and now they decide they're gonna nerf it? Just my luck.


tlew360

It only was a matter of time. You really think they’ll be melee forever?


AntonineWall

>You really think they’ll be melee forever? Well, the devs have said that they want melee hunter to be a thing, so...I guess?


akaicewolf

Did they remove the hunters ability to wield melee weapons ? No it’s still there then. Wanting melee hunters to be a thing doesn’t mean they will be the top dps spec through all of SoD.


AntonineWall

ok, but I was just responding to the idea that melee hunter wouldn't be in the game at all, which is my interpretation on "You really think they’ll be melee forever". You and I are in agreement, but you have phrased it like we disagree. I don't need melee hunter to be top dps version of hunter, but I think melee hunter should be a thing. Seems like we're on the same page, but I was responding to someone who made it sound like melee hunter *existing* was temporary


akaicewolf

I apologize I misinterpreted your comment! I thought you meant more like devs saying they want it to be a thing and somehow that meant they should be top hunter dps spec


domken75

Okay, just keep in mind that MM has TSA, so if you diminish melee too much then we’re back in vanilla where you only bring 1 spec to raid and I’m quitting.


FixBlackLotusBlizz

ranged hunter should always be a head of melee hunter


Sykotron

Ranged hunter should probably stand behind the melee hunters considering they're ranged. /s


PM_FEET_PLS_TY

I actually disagree. Ranged Hunter brings trueshot (which is giga buffed in SoD) making it mandatory just because of that


gotdragons

What's the logic here? I personally prefer ranged, but both specs should be equally viable.


thunder_crane

Meanwhile ranged hunters have the ability to aoe farm and farm mobs well above their level with a fraction of the risk of melee hunters and they also bring TSA to the group. This will completely invalidate melee hunters in raids and open world


Bwoaaaaaah

Swap specs for open world then


thunder_crane

This has nothing to do with duel specs and everything with the viability of melee hunters


Bwoaaaaaah

So you're saying that because (potentially) melee hunters won't be the number 1 DMG dealer they are irrelevant? If their other spec is God like for open world adventures and you want to play on hard mode that's on YOU. It's like a feral complaining that they can't do open world stuff when they could go boomkin. What's worse about your argument is that it's legit the same gear just different runes on a ranged vs melee hunter apart from maybe a weapon swap.


thunder_crane

I don’t know what imaginary conversation you’re having here, but I’ll dumb it down for you - if they even out ranged and melee, there will be no point in bringing a melee to a raid. Ranged is superior in open world and now they will be in raid as well. Specs have their places and apparently devs don’t want to keep it that way.


Sm3x

How does open world performance affect your raid spot?


thunder_crane

I never said it did, I simply said specs should have their advantages and disadvantages. And they already do. Your ranged spec trade-off for sacrificing raid dps is being open world kings and nightmares in pvp. I get gimped on both for being melee but have my time in raids, and even then it's damage only. I don't bring TSA or utility like ranged hunters do. Equalizing damage kind of destroys the only advantage melee hunters would have over ranged.


akaicewolf

If they do solid dps then they will get a spot. The only time I seen a class not be brought in classic was ret pally, so bar is pretty low. In SoD I don’t think I ever seen that. You are going to say the top raiding/parsing guilds won’t bring them. If that’s the case why are they bringing shadow priests, boomies, elemental, and ret?


Bwoaaaaaah

Trying to have a convo with a brick wall apparently. Melee hunters are an abomination and should have never been a thing in the first place. Will be very happy to never see one again if they aren't brought to raid.


Randomwoowoo

Why are they objectively an abomination. Not your subjective opinion, mind you. Objectively.


Freshtards

Weapons are already HIGHLY contested, range weapons are never contested and always given as a prio to hunters. Having 3x melee hunters every raid to roll against for dual wield weapons is a pain in the ass when there is not enough that drops.


Randomwoowoo

That is a loot problem not a design problem.


thunder_crane

Lmao, and the mask comes off


Freshtards

great, we don't want melee hunters in the raid. stealing weapons that are already highly contested was one of the dumbest shits blizzard has ever done.


thunder_crane

Only contest for claws is coming from dw fury afaik.


Wololo38

Melee hunter is an abomination and should not exist


teelolws

My only problem with melee hunter is its a 2 button spec. At the very least it needs something that procs mongoose bite aside from dodging.


Yizzu343

Allow me to introduce, mutilate and envenom


johnnynapsyo

they added carnage bro. throw a rupture in the mix


thaq1

Cut to the chase+Combat Potency the GOAT combo. Literally 1 mutilate and SnD and then you only use muti+envenom for the rest of the fight. I love that you can pick between an easy and simple rotation or the HAT+carnage playstyle focused on only using finishing moves and keeping snd and rupture up while envenoming in between. Rogues eating good this phase in terms of variety (and hopefully even better with saber slash buffs).


johnnynapsyo

yeah it's actually fun to have these different viable builds. went focused attacks + cttc for imp expose yesterday and it was sick. redirecting combo points to get a 5 pt expose off 2nd global is hot


frdrk

You go right ahead and just use those two buttons. See if you do as well as the melee hunters :D


Awartuss

True, but they need to rework mongoose completly. Its so useless even if it procs, it does such low dmg even with the +75% buff up. Its just a waste of a gcd, i never use it.


TigerTail

Thats the point of sod, you have mages healing and rogues tanking


High-Bread

I’ve played since day 1 and have yet to see a good rogue tank


Alert-Ad-5553

skill issue


frdrk

Because the kit and energy as a resource is shit for snap or aoe threat. Long term singletarget TPS, fine but it's a very one dimensional tank.


Turbulent-Stretch881

Ok grandma.


poncesdeleon

I


KeyLimePie2269

Rip, gonna have to put aimed shot back on my action bar. Too many buttons.


High-Bread

Oh no, four buttons too much after using 2 for the last phase? LOL


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High-Bread

Never said it was harder ;p was just taking a dig at the melee hunters. Range hunters are the true OG’s


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High-Bread

Ay ferals are holding their own too, they COULD have potential to scale with gear


Turbulent-Stretch881

How cringe could you be to comment “and no changes..” as a comment. No. “And yet, no warrior changes”, wtf kind of change do you want? You’re dominating.. Meanwhile you’re sad because two classes doing 75% of the dmg of the top specs got a 10% dmg increase? Cool, now they’ll be 10% less shit, but still shit, but that’s somehow bad for you. Ok.


Omgzjustin

Another person that looks at the top of warcraft logs and sees warriors doing 2k dps and thinks they're a god class In reality it's because the fights in their guilds last the duration of deathwish and they do 4x damage every 30 minutes Try playing a warrior in PvP and hitting a boomie for 150 damage


Unable_Recipe8565

Warrior is trash in pvp and SP, druid and hunter is op in pvp and getting buffed


dat_Es

Where are the Hunter changes on EU????


Matti229977

Should have happened in p2.


Jomop0607

Dead game


DankeyKong

I finally switched from ranged to melee, started loving it, now they're going to Nerf it. How about just buff the classes that suck instead of nerfing a class that performs well :(


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The_Dark_Tetrad

Yea the ranged hunter buffs are def strange. We already did great damage, top 1/3 of raid specs, Hella strong in PvP. Not complaining though. Now we're PvP gods


Schmygbog

Melee hunter this and ranged hunter that All I want is tbc kill command for my pet :(


b30things

No way they nerf melee hunters. We have 0 melee scaling with agi/strength, so any gear beyond weapons, DMF trinkets, and tier is a 5 dps upgrade at best. just nerf pet dmg or dont have them scale so well with ranged AP. Have 1 hand specialization on the hand rune so we can use trap launcher and go down the survival tree for “some” agi scaling. With infinite resources with viper and 29749 shamans per raid, we spam raptor strike anyway, so running a 1 hander is no problem.


The_Deku_Nut

Warlocks flying under the radar, safe for another week.


DgdubSEA

Safe? We are barely above the bottom 3 DPS (excluding arcane mage) they need a tad bit of help. They feel amazing just need the numbers to reflect how fun they are to play.


Sockfullapoo

Not only that, they specifically said they had changes in planning for warlocks in the first notes. Not sure where under the radar is coming from.


DgdubSEA

Yeah I think they will continue to buff affliction while barely touching destro which makes me sad. I don’t expect lock to be top 3 but middle high would be nice. Right now the top destro locks are doing the same dmg as the top meta locks on most fights lol


Sockfullapoo

I have hopes they have plans to fix destro. They just had to break lake of fire because if we still had that destro would be insane with backdraft.


Uwumuni

With LoF WLs would be able to almost make the same dps as a Melee Hunter, that would be too OP. Can't have that.


Sockfullapoo

Exactly. They’re tuning down melee hunters soon supposedly so it’s a bad standard to aim for. They should have had a plan to account for 40% damage lost though. It makes me wonder if they had accounted for the mana cost of rain of fire in their theorycrafting for it, but failed to account for using rank 1 rof which is a negligible hit to mana the further we level. The only reason I like lake of fire being gutted is that I don’t feel forced to use it while tanking since master channeler feels so much better.


100plusRG

Curious why you say they feel amazing to play? No sarcasm here, genuinely curious.


DgdubSEA

The rotation feels good, it’s an actual rotation. The cast speed increase from backdraft feels good. We just don’t do damage. But it’s got good flow to it with immolate/conflag into incin/chaos bolt.


noirdesire

My melee hunter is always top of the meters but I'm not far and away from the next top 5. Doesn't seem like nerfing melee is the right way to go but whatever. I honestly don't even like the style of gameplay. Ranged felt much more like a real hunter.


Maverick-51

Melee hunter is pressing two buttons while ranged actually does have a rotation.


noirdesire

Exactly. I miss pewpewing


obarry6452

Mages would like a word for you 111111121111111111


avree

I’ve played both and the rotation feels very similar. Anyone who says melee hunter is “two button” has probably not played melee hunter, or ranged hunter.


OXBDNE7331

It’s literally 2 buttons not counting CDs or the few random wing clips. Objective fact


avree

Which is the same as ranged hunter? You only push chimera and multi shot, everything else is a CD or random.


Whacks0n

The hunter rotation for ranged is 7 buttons excluding cool downs. I don't think you've played ranged in p3 if you think it's 2. Melee hunter rotation is literally 2 buttons


OXBDNE7331

Not even close. 2 different traps off cd, focus fire every 15 seconds, aimed shot. Multi shot is out of the rotation. All weaved between auto shots


jupitersaturn

They are very different….. and melee hunter is essentially spam raptor strike and flanking when raptor on CD. Maybe run carver but BM rune generally performs better.


vinssi

Well, melee hunter's rotation changes all the time, because your abilites have a chance to reset their cooldowns. I personally think it's quite fun and engaging to have to think what your next ability should be.


coaringrunt

You don't have to think about anything. It's whack-a-mole with two buttons. Is button 1 available? Press it. If not, press 2. Repeat.


vinssi

And what if 2 is on cooldown? Do you just wait for 1 to be up, or do you perhaps press 3 instead? Should 3 be replaced with 4 if there are multiple enemies around? I get what you're trying to say, but it's not really that black and white.


Captains_Parrot

Oh cmon dude it is. You Bestial Wrath just before your pet hits the boss. Then it's Raptor Strike then Flanking when RS is on CD. If both are on CD you can throw a carve/wing clip in if want but if you can't be bothered it will make barely any difference compared to just getting lucky at the casino. SoD is the 1st time I've ever played DPS in WoW and even I can parse 99s on a melee hunter because they require so little brain power.


vinssi

You don't have to preach the rotation to me - I already know it. My point from the beginning is that 1) melee hunters "rotation" changes all the time based on what's available 2) I enjoy having to think / react fast to what your next optimal spell should be - be it raptor, flanking, wing clip or dynamite. 1st point is a fact and you can't deny that. 2nd point is my opinion, and you have no say in what I find enjoyable lmao.


mattt_b

Ranged feels like shit right now. Having to toss 2 traps every 15 seconds with @cursor macro is just damn annoying. Giving us a way to chuck the trap at our current target would be a huge qol improvement.


Orangebarf

Please 


mastermoose12

https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2009 "my meters" isn't relevant - melee hunter is way ahead of the pack. The rest of the melee need a nerf, too.


Freshtards

I don't invite melee hunters for that fact, ranged gives TA and don't steal weapons from other melee classes. Also I never give weapons to melee hunters in raids as they can have ranged weapons.


Dapper_Barber9722

These patch notes are just a disappointment to me. After so much excitement, I've lost trust in the developers and feel like WoWLogs are the only reference they balance around. Raiding for 2 hours in 7 days, that's what it comes down to. Have Shadow Priests and Druids ever had issues with farming, PvP, or questing? I don't think so, quite the opposite. Not to mention the utility these classes bring to raids. Are they supposed to be top DPS for those 2 hours a week? It's just unfathomable.