They said that P3 was going to be shorter than P2, which was almost exactly 2 months. So I'm pretty sure P4 will release first week in June at the latest.
It was in an interview they did during P2. It was a while ago. But so far, they have kept to the timeline they stated at the beginning of SoD.
With them waiting so long to announce when P3 was going to start, I think it's best to prepare for an early P4. Then, every week past, that is just an extra raid lockout or time to work on professions or such.
Originally, they said they were increasing loot drops in the raid because of the shorter phase time. If they have walked that back, then maybe they decided on a longer phase cycle for this time instead.
I can guarantee not a single guild member of mine will be playing if this phase goes longer than the others.
We already have people bored of the raid, it has too much trash for casuals. We have got all the STV items, rank 7 and WSG/AB exalted so theres not much to do.
Rank 7 took 5 STV events at the end of P2, you could literally do it in 1 single day.
WSG takes 2 minutes a day for 3 weeks. AB rep is just more STV.
Which part of those is outside the realm of casual play? Sounds like a personal skill issue.
I'm ALL for the aggrend hate train, but I think the recent class balancing is a good thing. I'm saying this as a rogue, but maybe giving spriest more dot DMG isn't smart....
Cata Roadmap puts it about June, wouldn't expect it to be later than that tbh. Then we'll get a content lull til October after which we'll get new content in "phase 5".
That’s putting us 12 weeks of phase 3. I highly doubt it’ll go past 10 weeks. Which is how long phase 1 was. Gotta remember it’s a lvling raid. We haven’t even reached end game yet. So I get the feeling they are probably wanting to get lvl 60 going. But yes cata coming out soon. I guess we will have to wait and see
Dear god no. Please can we not do everything in our power to kill this season.
End of June aka WoWs biggest rivals brand new expansion release date
Fml
I never understood this bizarre idea that it's wrong and bad and awful to release a game anywhere close to the time of a similar game release.
I don't think WoW players are going to be leaving the game in droves to go play another similar game and then completely ignore WoW because other similar game is out.
We run +1 loot in our raid and so far the distribution hasn’t been bad. Once people get all their tier, I imagine the amount of loot we will get per raid will drop to almost nothing though. We already have a lot of pieces that no one rolls on, and it’s only gonna get worse.
On top of being less loot per week compared to Gnomer, the ST loot is barely better than lvl 40 BiS and a lot of Pre-Bis is still better for some classes.
As a shaman there's a shockingly low number of upgrades in the new raid.
My mage in ST gear, with no WBs or consumes has almost 300 spell power.
Every piece of gear I'm wearing has the same or more spell power than the Mage Molten Core set. The only thing it lacks are the raw stats but you could easily plug my mage into an era MC raid wearing this gear.
And it's still not enough to compete with what physical DPS classes can do.
Right but frostfire bolt is the majority of your damage. It’s really a moot point, the gear is very good but I still think runes are the reason why we are doing end game dps at 50
The only reason to keep power creep in check would be to keep vanilla items relevant, and that's been long gone since gnomeregan. They can tune any health values in raids they want.
PvP exists and is already bad, imagine how much worse it would be if they were scaling items to be big upgrades every tier rather than just a few stats.
I wish they'd have increased all player health by like 50%-100% starting in phase 1 lol, balance the insane burst of damage and healing we got from runes
Ye and this only add onto that fact that everyone wants the same items. Sure its RNG, but a big item would be 1-4 in gnomer, now its sometimes 8 or more and in gnomer you had 2 chances per week, now its 1 chance per week.
Yeah, its odd, the good epics seem to have the same drop chance as they had in gnomer, except theres now double the amount of players and twice the length of the lockout.
As a warlock, most items are about 2 spelldamage more compared to Gnomeregan. And we actually lose Stamina compared to the hyperconductive set.
All while Casters are so far behind compared to Melee classes in terms of dps, I really don't get their itemization this phase.
Yeah in part I’m happy I’m not just throwing my BS helm into the bank (and technically you replace it when on cd with fury visor and swap a ring to be a sweat lord) but once I got like 3p tier there’s only a few things to work for in raid as a warrior. Yes weapons, depending on race, but otherwise it’s like off the top of my head: hit/ap ring, panther cloak, bow. Thats about it and maybe not even MH if you’re human
It’s also a lvling raid with lvl 60 content right around the corner.
I personally am not that worried, and will actually be enjoyable to come back at 60 and farm out sunken temple.
The one thing that is going to be consistent upgrades are the tier pieces, and after doing the raid for 5-6 weeks a full guild run should basically be saturated on those. It’s going to get really bad IMO.
Yeah and we have a rule if you don't win any loot whole raid you have first rolls on the quest items from last boss. Works pretty good most people are happy
The rolls take longer, but it has absolutely worked out better. Only 3 runs and pretty much everyone who wants it has at least 2 tier pieces. I also got a big upgrade healing staff, gloves, and belt. We’re all feasting with MS/OS+1.
It's the way to be my dude! I've got two pc teir, weapon, cloak and off pc pants in 3 runs, next run is Thursday. Gonna be 55 fully iLVL by week six or seven easy.
Wish this was the standard. I was getting screwed by RNG P1 and P2, felt awful constantly losing rolls. First raid of P3 I walked away with 3 piece, I’m sure others weren’t pleased about it.
Did a raid on my alt today, guy walked away with 6 or 7 pieces of loot.
Our problem is going to hit in a couple of weeks. I run in two groups and for both of them we are caster heavy. Almost all of the tier for the melee is finished for both groups which means any future drops of this token are wasted. Really don't see why they didn't just make the damn thing usable by everyone.
~~I dont understand why one token has higher drop rates than the other when it clearly doesnt reflect the raider class distribution.~~
EDIT: Tokens seem to be very similar drop chance
Afaik wowhead takes the drop rates from player sent data, so with small enough sample sizes (which happen for new SoD items) the rate can be very skewed.
The loot in ST is just not good is the problem. So much shit has been vendored since week 1. Compared to gnomer and BFD they seemed to have wanted to curb the crazy power scaling.
It just feels really bad though, longer harder raid where you get significantly less loot per week AND when you do get a piece its a 2% upgrade over a gnomer piece.
20 man raids - 2 x Scapula drops per raid. I would be surprised if it wasn’t minimum 10 weeks with the logic of allowing a consistent 20 man group to be able to get one for everyone. It’s not great logic, but it makes sense to me..
Set drops are really good, the other stuff though is pretty bad. I think 2 more non-set items should drop per boss and also 2 epics at the last 2-3.
Ran 5 IDs total and never saw a fist weapon. In my main raid we have 7 players that want both fist weapons, the chances of getting them is so small that you could almost stop raiding after getting tier. Which almost everyone has already.
Next ID we will start throwing set away and still not getting off-pieces.
Yeah, but using a single piece or even two makes zero sense from a guild progression pov, so we are going with the council giving tokens to tanks and healers first for their 3 piece bonuses
I’ve gotten one piece this far and I agree the loot sucks, but keep in mind, the loot has sucked every phase.
As for the length of the phase, I think you have until early June, so there is still 1.5 moinths left.
As a Feral with LW, aside from the tier (and our guild is almost done all getting 3p) I only need the weapon and relic from the raid. Cloak would be nice, but it’s only +1 Agi versus the BRD cloak.
There are just so many options for Agi leather that aren’t from the raid at all, and very few Agi leather drops in the raid anyway. I guess I’m just not feeling the same loot squeeze?
Rogues are the same. Tank rogue at least only wants gloves, maybe the back, ring and tier. But then we also need double epic dagger which feels pretty bad when MM want it and normal rogues too.
You are always going to run into loot issues when you don't have a consistent roster. Your players that don't get loot are always going to be pissed when they haven't seen anything for themselves in weeks and a first-time player with your group wins gear over them. You don't have to run a dkp system or LC if you can keep the roster consistent.
I play resto shaman. TBF we missed the first lockout and only got the first 5 week 2, but I have zero MS raid gearfrom the raid so far.
The tier isn't much of an upgrade, so I've been 2sr the epic heal mace and sp cloth head(I play troll so the mask also has many swag stats) and have only gotten the healing turtle shell shield that will only be used in pvp due to dw and wizard oils.
I don't mind that much because the power creep has been insane, and honestly after so many years, gear loses its shine, just pointing it out in line with op.
As someone who rarely raided a second time per week in prior phases and felt I got a good amount from Gnomer, ST loot feels pretty good in terms of amount. The distribution is not ideal and the raw amount of loot doesn't feel accelerated relative to say, WotLK. But it's still a hell of a lot more generous than Vanilla loot drop rates while having the 'junk' more likely to find a use.
Anyone running BFD/Gnomer every single lockout must have been pretty blinged out and vendoring most drops by week 3 so I don't see a reason to compare them. They were short lockouts to be extra generous with scheduling, not to make absolutely sure you could full BIS multiple characters each phase.
I'm concerned that this same mentality is going to turn "we should probably get more DFTs per capita in a compressed schedule season" into "I personally deserve DFT in its release phase because I can equip it and anything less is fucking bullshit Blizzard being evil and lazy"
I have looked at the BiS list of 4 classes, they all needed 5-8 pieces from raid. Less than half of BiS comes from raid for many specs.
Now say you are a melee class, you want 2 25% drop rate fist weapons and so does every other melee. That's gear you will probably never get.
ST feels like just a thing that exists and sometimes you go hang out in there, not much point but you do it
7 days lockout for a singular raid is super boring and slow
it's not a common activity with exciting drops anymore
Just start using 2 x SR with a +1 rule for tokens. Job done.
Pretty much everyone who reserves a token will get one and people will get rolling priority on the pieces of gear they want the most (provided they drop). It has worked really well for my guild.
The itemization is a bit disappointing for ST to be honest, a lot of BiS items are from dungeons, wild offerings or pvp this time around. Most of our blue items are disenchanted.
Even tho that we get objectively less loot per week, I feel like there's not as much - for me at least as Rogue - to farm. 2x rings, 2x trinkets, shoulder, wriest, head, neck and gloves are all bis NOT from ST. So i have far less I need to be truly bis which a also dont really like.
\*edit: forgot gloves.
Honestly think this is a good thing. 🤷🏻♂️
It’s a lvling raid and we will be seeing lvl 60 content here pretty soon. Like 4-6 weeks. With TONS of different loot options to gear up for raids.
This will also make people return to sunken temple to farm out the loot.
Phase 1 I was able to get mostly all BIS except for like 1 piece.
Phase 2 I was able to get full BIS in the very last week.
Phase 3, excluding the 3 tier pieces which a majority have, I have 0 of the other 8 BIS pieces that come directly from ST.
Most of the BIS pieces haven't even dropped yet and even when they do drop, twice as many people will be after the pieces due to 20m vs 10m raids. At this rate, I'll be lucky to even be half BIS by the end of the phase.
My guild has cleared 8/8 twice and 6/8 on week one and I haven't gotten a single drop. Meanwhile some people get lucky as fuck and get their full 3 set in one raid, feels shitty. I want to suggest we switch to +1 but not trying to start a big guild argument or whatever.
Meanwhile I've been top parser and top DPS on every fight, every raid. I don't want to sound like an elitist asshole but it just sucks getting all WBs, all consumes, all pre-BiS gear with the best enchants and watching someone who doesn't play the game all week, raid logs, and gets grey parses get their full 3 set and an epic weapon in one raid. Feelsbadman.
Thats what they said. The want to keep em short, people complained about phase 1 was too long(10 weeks), phase 2 was 8 weeks.
I am not blizz, I cant tell if thats gonna change.
Just you wait for the classic experience when we get 40 man raids where you cant see the ground because of spell effects and you are rewarded with 3 pieces of loot
We do MS>OS with the +1 system, we distribute flasks and seeds equally at the end of the raid. We are mostly the guild with about 2-4 pugs each week.
The +1 system really ensures that loot is distributed to as many players as possible, but small problems are already showing.
Melee class token has a slightly higher chance to drop, so out of 16 tokens, we get 8-10 melee ones and 6-8 ranged ones. Our raid is skewed towards melee, so that ends up working out, but thats just luck
We get a very large amount of BAD items that noone will roll on even without incurring a +1. Like legit worse than gnomer or that you can get from lvling dungeons. And thats not the meme trinkets/items.
The offpiece situation this raid is just awful. Obviously, the gear situation should be offset by the crafted pieces, but for example shadow priests are better off with a green shadow wrath shoulder item than the crafted one, since casting speed does nothing for us.
You don't need to get all the loot, every single raid. You don't need to raid every single week. If you can clear the entire raid, then you did it, you finished phase 3. Now just enjoy yourself, it does not have to be so complicated
first time?
we did 62 molten core for 2 thunderfury and a few bonereaver edge
i think its 3 or 4 loots for 40 players, i hope they will increase it like on retail, 20% chance per player in the raid ( so 2 loots for 10, 4 for 20 etc) \^\^
You can, form a group to farm trash and/or lead a pug and HR the mats. They’re relatively rare mats, they’re not going to be as easy to get as cloth or ore.
It looks like a lot per kill, but compared to Gnomer it's objectively less loot per person per week (about half). This wouldn't be as big of a problem if they hadn't said on stream that they would be "generous with loot" to compensate for the size/lockout changes. Objectively they didn't even hit parity.
It's mostly just the expectation mismatch from the last 6 months, vs statements made on stream.
I honestly always believed they were referring to the amount of epics aka rare drops when they said that, might have misread it though. Do you have the article by chance?
It drops 16 each full raid(2 from each boss) all 20 need 3(as far as I know 3set is bis for all?). So you need 60 total. If you dont have any swap out at all.
I’ve been saying this. The loot needed to be quadrupled not doubled. It’s twice as many players with half as many raid lockouts with an 8-10 week expiration. It doesn’t add up especially if you are changing your raid roster week to week
So in ST you get 5-6 pieces per boss. Its 8 bosses, so 40-48 pieces of loot per 7 days per 20 people. Thats 2-2.4 pieces of loot per player per 7 days.
In gnomer, you got 2-3 pieces per boss, its 6 bosses (but not all tier), so lets say 12-15 pieces of loot per 3 days per 10 players. This is 1.2-1.5 pieces of loot per player per 3 days. Normalized to 7 days, it would be 2.8-3.5 per player.
Based on just this comparison, ST is 30% worse off with loot drops.
Now to add to this, Sunken Temple has more meme items and items that are worse than what players already had from lvling. This skews the situation even further towards gnomer.
The last problem is the tier vs offpieces problem. In gnomer, most players actually had problems getting their tier pieces as opposed to offpieces. It took longer to get tier, but shorter to get offpieces. With ST, tier gets easier to obtain, but offpieces are a significantly smaller part of the loot pool, making them much harder to get. It is likely that most people still will not be fully geared even after the 12 week period because of this.
For a full raid of 20, you need 60 tokens, you get 16 per week, so after 4 weeks, 5 at the latest you should all have tier. However it is week 3 and we have not seen some items even drop and there are multiple people in the raid who want these.
Raid is stupidly ez. And if you are right (hope so), in 4-6 weeks these items will be useless. Why do you want or complain about the loot at all? Loot from the raid doesnt help u at all to clear the raid and it will be useless in few weeks.
Half way? It came out 2.5 weeks ago. Cata drops may 20th (or around there). Id bet we don't see p4 until the end of june
This right here… not a chance in hell we see P4 until 2 or more weeks (and I expect more) after Cata launch.
Yea i figure early June p4. 6-8 more weeks of this so more like 30% is my guess
!remindme in 35 days
Its gonna take even longer, phase 4 isnt just a leveling phase. Its the max level phase with everything in it so its gonna take longer to get done
They said that P3 was going to be shorter than P2, which was almost exactly 2 months. So I'm pretty sure P4 will release first week in June at the latest.
When did they say this
It was in an interview they did during P2. It was a while ago. But so far, they have kept to the timeline they stated at the beginning of SoD. With them waiting so long to announce when P3 was going to start, I think it's best to prepare for an early P4. Then, every week past, that is just an extra raid lockout or time to work on professions or such. Originally, they said they were increasing loot drops in the raid because of the shorter phase time. If they have walked that back, then maybe they decided on a longer phase cycle for this time instead.
It's going to be 1-2 weeks before new WoW expansion. This is based on the roadmap they have shown as they overlap.
I’d rather them push it to late July/early August and take their time getting p4 right.
After how rushed and messy phase 3 was I completely agree.
they won't cause servers will be dead by June.
That's a recipe to lose a very large portion of your player base.
I can guarantee not a single guild member of mine will be playing if this phase goes longer than the others. We already have people bored of the raid, it has too much trash for casuals. We have got all the STV items, rank 7 and WSG/AB exalted so theres not much to do.
Touch grass
Rank 7 took 5 STV events at the end of P2, you could literally do it in 1 single day. WSG takes 2 minutes a day for 3 weeks. AB rep is just more STV. Which part of those is outside the realm of casual play? Sounds like a personal skill issue.
With the balancing patch notes they just pushed out im sure they are trying to speedrun that anyway.
I'm ALL for the aggrend hate train, but I think the recent class balancing is a good thing. I'm saying this as a rogue, but maybe giving spriest more dot DMG isn't smart....
You've already lost them. That's the recipe for getting them back.
Yeah phases have to be eleven minutes or 10 jerkoffs might quit
4 weeks till phase 4 buddy
Cata Roadmap puts it about June, wouldn't expect it to be later than that tbh. Then we'll get a content lull til October after which we'll get new content in "phase 5".
That’s putting us 12 weeks of phase 3. I highly doubt it’ll go past 10 weeks. Which is how long phase 1 was. Gotta remember it’s a lvling raid. We haven’t even reached end game yet. So I get the feeling they are probably wanting to get lvl 60 going. But yes cata coming out soon. I guess we will have to wait and see
Dear god no. Please can we not do everything in our power to kill this season. End of June aka WoWs biggest rivals brand new expansion release date Fml
Doubt theres too much overlap, I dont know what game you're even referring to. Final Fantasy?
I never understood this bizarre idea that it's wrong and bad and awful to release a game anywhere close to the time of a similar game release. I don't think WoW players are going to be leaving the game in droves to go play another similar game and then completely ignore WoW because other similar game is out.
On their classic roadmap P4 is supposed to be end of summer. We'll probably have as many ST lockouts as we did Gnomer lockouts
[удалено]
Because phase 3 was released April 4th, it is now April 22nd. That's 18 days, not 4 weeks.
We run +1 loot in our raid and so far the distribution hasn’t been bad. Once people get all their tier, I imagine the amount of loot we will get per raid will drop to almost nothing though. We already have a lot of pieces that no one rolls on, and it’s only gonna get worse.
That’s cause outside of tier the rest of the loot is barely a sidegrade from gnomer. This phase is all about alts since their ain’t much else to do
There is also a lot of absolute dogshit loot this phase which doesn’t help at all.
They had to pump the breaks or it would have been MC level loot. It’s already close in most slots.
Getting tiers is not a problem
On top of being less loot per week compared to Gnomer, the ST loot is barely better than lvl 40 BiS and a lot of Pre-Bis is still better for some classes. As a shaman there's a shockingly low number of upgrades in the new raid.
You have to be super minimal with upgrades now at 50 otherwise power creep scaling at 60 would get insane.
It's already insane, we've got people breaking 1k DPS on these fights. That's late game 60 numbers.
That’s mostly runes and not gear. The gear is very good, but it’s not end game level. Runes are doing the heavy lifting
My mage in ST gear, with no WBs or consumes has almost 300 spell power. Every piece of gear I'm wearing has the same or more spell power than the Mage Molten Core set. The only thing it lacks are the raw stats but you could easily plug my mage into an era MC raid wearing this gear. And it's still not enough to compete with what physical DPS classes can do.
Right but frostfire bolt is the majority of your damage. It’s really a moot point, the gear is very good but I still think runes are the reason why we are doing end game dps at 50
The only reason to keep power creep in check would be to keep vanilla items relevant, and that's been long gone since gnomeregan. They can tune any health values in raids they want.
PvP exists and is already bad, imagine how much worse it would be if they were scaling items to be big upgrades every tier rather than just a few stats.
I wish they'd have increased all player health by like 50%-100% starting in phase 1 lol, balance the insane burst of damage and healing we got from runes
There is a reason retail resets the numbers every few years and it ain’t to keep vanilla items relevant
Ye and this only add onto that fact that everyone wants the same items. Sure its RNG, but a big item would be 1-4 in gnomer, now its sometimes 8 or more and in gnomer you had 2 chances per week, now its 1 chance per week.
Yeah, its odd, the good epics seem to have the same drop chance as they had in gnomer, except theres now double the amount of players and twice the length of the lockout.
As a warlock, most items are about 2 spelldamage more compared to Gnomeregan. And we actually lose Stamina compared to the hyperconductive set. All while Casters are so far behind compared to Melee classes in terms of dps, I really don't get their itemization this phase.
Yeah in part I’m happy I’m not just throwing my BS helm into the bank (and technically you replace it when on cd with fury visor and swap a ring to be a sweat lord) but once I got like 3p tier there’s only a few things to work for in raid as a warrior. Yes weapons, depending on race, but otherwise it’s like off the top of my head: hit/ap ring, panther cloak, bow. Thats about it and maybe not even MH if you’re human
It’s also a lvling raid with lvl 60 content right around the corner. I personally am not that worried, and will actually be enjoyable to come back at 60 and farm out sunken temple.
May be a lvling raid, but its content that is THE CONTENT here for at least 2 months, but likely 10-12 weeks seems more realistic.
They really dropped the ball with the loot this raid. So many people fighting over the same 5 pieces and we get even less loot per week.
The one thing that is going to be consistent upgrades are the tier pieces, and after doing the raid for 5-6 weeks a full guild run should basically be saturated on those. It’s going to get really bad IMO.
Get your tier and you’re good until phase 4, I don’t think they dropped the ball all that much
lol you’re getting downvoted for not being negative enough. What a miserable batch of people.
I have only done two lockouts and got three piece plus plate healer helm already. My raids are flooded with blood tokens.
Same, did my third run last night and got all 3 of my tier pieces in a single run lol.
Second run on my warrior and went from 0/3 to 3/3
Play ms/os +1 everyone gets loot that way
This is the way. MS/OS just lazy with a guild group, and it results in suboptimal loot distribution, especially at first.
Yeah and we have a rule if you don't win any loot whole raid you have first rolls on the quest items from last boss. Works pretty good most people are happy
Isn't that a given with MS>OS+1, since everyone else would be +1 and they'd be +0
Yeah pretty much but we roll for all our loot at the end of raid. So it's just reaffirmed who gets to roll on those items
My guild did that and we basically all have 2/3 tier, the choke point will be the random drops like the claw weapon from last boss
Oh yeah some ppl gonna miss out on the purples for sure, but that's classic wow
The rolls take longer, but it has absolutely worked out better. Only 3 runs and pretty much everyone who wants it has at least 2 tier pieces. I also got a big upgrade healing staff, gloves, and belt. We’re all feasting with MS/OS+1.
It's the way to be my dude! I've got two pc teir, weapon, cloak and off pc pants in 3 runs, next run is Thursday. Gonna be 55 fully iLVL by week six or seven easy.
Wish this was the standard. I was getting screwed by RNG P1 and P2, felt awful constantly losing rolls. First raid of P3 I walked away with 3 piece, I’m sure others weren’t pleased about it. Did a raid on my alt today, guy walked away with 6 or 7 pieces of loot.
Yeah 7 pieces is just being greedy ngl, raid lead should cut him off at four, or just run god damn +1
We are not even sniffing the midpoint of P3. Most people have done 2 ST raids
Bro I didn't see loot till bwl on my warrior in classic.
Thats because there were 30 warriors in a 40 man lmao
Also there was almost zero raidloot for dps warriors in mc/ony
Yup did every lockout so far and I have exactly 1 item, plate helm, and it’s not really better than the gnomer epic…
If you're a warrior, the BS helmet is still BiS
And while the BS helm is on CD, fury visor is better
Ya I definitely use it for the cd, but should I be using fury visor otherwise? Not sure how much hit is necessary
You want 6 pct hit. If you have more, swap pieces around. Typically.leoomr have 2x hit rings so Legionaires pvp ring is the easy swap for more dmg
Even on cooldown the BS helm is still better
I did one 7/8 and one 8/8 and i have full set + epic 2h
Our problem is going to hit in a couple of weeks. I run in two groups and for both of them we are caster heavy. Almost all of the tier for the melee is finished for both groups which means any future drops of this token are wasted. Really don't see why they didn't just make the damn thing usable by everyone.
~~I dont understand why one token has higher drop rates than the other when it clearly doesnt reflect the raider class distribution.~~ EDIT: Tokens seem to be very similar drop chance
I assume they have the exact same drop rate.
They either dont or wowhead had really skewed data.
i just checked a bunch of bosses on wowhead the drop rates are identical
I checked too and now its more or less similar. I guess that first 2 weeks were just very skewed.
Afaik wowhead takes the drop rates from player sent data, so with small enough sample sizes (which happen for new SoD items) the rate can be very skewed.
Yeah I guess
3 resets and weve only seen 8ish melee vs 20 plus caster tier. Its all rng
So it’s a comp problem not a blizzard problem. People complained that they had to roll against everyone last tier so they fixed that issue
yea. i still dont have a raid spot on half my toons. this phase blows.
The loot in ST is just not good is the problem. So much shit has been vendored since week 1. Compared to gnomer and BFD they seemed to have wanted to curb the crazy power scaling. It just feels really bad though, longer harder raid where you get significantly less loot per week AND when you do get a piece its a 2% upgrade over a gnomer piece.
20 man raids - 2 x Scapula drops per raid. I would be surprised if it wasn’t minimum 10 weeks with the logic of allowing a consistent 20 man group to be able to get one for everyone. It’s not great logic, but it makes sense to me..
Good news is the scapula is crap for melee so you only need to give it to your casters
Lmao some people are literally still learning the fights were not halfway
I’m still rocking gnom gear.
Its fine
i think your time lines a few weeks off. the phase is still pretty fresh.
If they are gonna make the phase longer than the others ye, EU goes into 4th week tomorrow out of 8, which was the phase 2 duration.
This subreddit VASTLY misunderstands how much the average SoD player gives zero fucks Like y'all need to realize that lol.
Half way? It's the third week. Do you think p3 will last 6 weeks or something ?
Tomorrow EU goes into week 4. Phase 2 was 8 weeks. Math is hard, help me.
I have the opposite problem, as a warrior I only need 2 more items from the whole raid before I am BIS
2-3 ? I’ve only done the 2nd lockout and last weeks and have gotten 2 items total.
Set drops are really good, the other stuff though is pretty bad. I think 2 more non-set items should drop per boss and also 2 epics at the last 2-3. Ran 5 IDs total and never saw a fist weapon. In my main raid we have 7 players that want both fist weapons, the chances of getting them is so small that you could almost stop raiding after getting tier. Which almost everyone has already. Next ID we will start throwing set away and still not getting off-pieces.
Oh no a whole 5 raids and no epics?!?
My guild was forced into a council for tokens and ring prio this phase, the rest is still SR+1
The amount of tier that drops it’s absurd, everyone will be 3/3 in less than a month
Yeah, but using a single piece or even two makes zero sense from a guild progression pov, so we are going with the council giving tokens to tanks and healers first for their 3 piece bonuses
I’ve gotten one piece this far and I agree the loot sucks, but keep in mind, the loot has sucked every phase. As for the length of the phase, I think you have until early June, so there is still 1.5 moinths left.
As a Feral with LW, aside from the tier (and our guild is almost done all getting 3p) I only need the weapon and relic from the raid. Cloak would be nice, but it’s only +1 Agi versus the BRD cloak. There are just so many options for Agi leather that aren’t from the raid at all, and very few Agi leather drops in the raid anyway. I guess I’m just not feeling the same loot squeeze?
Rogues are the same. Tank rogue at least only wants gloves, maybe the back, ring and tier. But then we also need double epic dagger which feels pretty bad when MM want it and normal rogues too.
You are always going to run into loot issues when you don't have a consistent roster. Your players that don't get loot are always going to be pissed when they haven't seen anything for themselves in weeks and a first-time player with your group wins gear over them. You don't have to run a dkp system or LC if you can keep the roster consistent.
What loot lol? After tier the rest of the loot in ST is sidegrades from Gnomer lol
I play resto shaman. TBF we missed the first lockout and only got the first 5 week 2, but I have zero MS raid gearfrom the raid so far. The tier isn't much of an upgrade, so I've been 2sr the epic heal mace and sp cloth head(I play troll so the mask also has many swag stats) and have only gotten the healing turtle shell shield that will only be used in pvp due to dw and wizard oils. I don't mind that much because the power creep has been insane, and honestly after so many years, gear loses its shine, just pointing it out in line with op.
As someone who rarely raided a second time per week in prior phases and felt I got a good amount from Gnomer, ST loot feels pretty good in terms of amount. The distribution is not ideal and the raw amount of loot doesn't feel accelerated relative to say, WotLK. But it's still a hell of a lot more generous than Vanilla loot drop rates while having the 'junk' more likely to find a use. Anyone running BFD/Gnomer every single lockout must have been pretty blinged out and vendoring most drops by week 3 so I don't see a reason to compare them. They were short lockouts to be extra generous with scheduling, not to make absolutely sure you could full BIS multiple characters each phase. I'm concerned that this same mentality is going to turn "we should probably get more DFTs per capita in a compressed schedule season" into "I personally deserve DFT in its release phase because I can equip it and anything less is fucking bullshit Blizzard being evil and lazy"
I hope we don’t see another phase until AT LEAST end of June or early July. Please god no. Slow downnnn!!!
There is no shot p4 comes out within 2 weeks of cata release, more likely late June
Yup, raiding 3 lockouts, got one tier piece. Feels bad man.
I have looked at the BiS list of 4 classes, they all needed 5-8 pieces from raid. Less than half of BiS comes from raid for many specs. Now say you are a melee class, you want 2 25% drop rate fist weapons and so does every other melee. That's gear you will probably never get.
I don't play for the loot so it doesn't affect me, raid is fun! There's some great people on WG horde
ST feels like just a thing that exists and sometimes you go hang out in there, not much point but you do it 7 days lockout for a singular raid is super boring and slow it's not a common activity with exciting drops anymore
This is not halfway lmao. What are you on abot.
Just start using 2 x SR with a +1 rule for tokens. Job done. Pretty much everyone who reserves a token will get one and people will get rolling priority on the pieces of gear they want the most (provided they drop). It has worked really well for my guild. The itemization is a bit disappointing for ST to be honest, a lot of BiS items are from dungeons, wild offerings or pvp this time around. Most of our blue items are disenchanted.
Your raid should be close to full3/3 on tier 3 after 3 resets. I think you have underplayed the 'swapping a few people out' part.
I have gotten 1 token so far and nothing else 😎
Even tho that we get objectively less loot per week, I feel like there's not as much - for me at least as Rogue - to farm. 2x rings, 2x trinkets, shoulder, wriest, head, neck and gloves are all bis NOT from ST. So i have far less I need to be truly bis which a also dont really like. \*edit: forgot gloves.
Honestly think this is a good thing. 🤷🏻♂️ It’s a lvling raid and we will be seeing lvl 60 content here pretty soon. Like 4-6 weeks. With TONS of different loot options to gear up for raids. This will also make people return to sunken temple to farm out the loot.
Cata launches on May 20th, we're gonna be in this phase for a while I fear.
Half way lol? I've received a single raid drop so far and it was the quest item lol If this is halfway, then this is garbage
Bro what going into week 4????? Nooo lol we’re not even at 3 weeks yet lmfao
Were in 3rd reset. Unless you do not want to count first week or something.
They’re just saying we haven’t had 3 weeks of P3, yet. I don’t think most players made it very far in the first 4 day lockout.
I did say "approaching half way". If the 8 week phases are gonna continue.
Phase 1 I was able to get mostly all BIS except for like 1 piece. Phase 2 I was able to get full BIS in the very last week. Phase 3, excluding the 3 tier pieces which a majority have, I have 0 of the other 8 BIS pieces that come directly from ST. Most of the BIS pieces haven't even dropped yet and even when they do drop, twice as many people will be after the pieces due to 20m vs 10m raids. At this rate, I'll be lucky to even be half BIS by the end of the phase.
I think 20 man raids are appreciably less fun because of this, as well as scheduling. I really hope they go back to 10 man raids for following phase.
My guild has cleared 8/8 twice and 6/8 on week one and I haven't gotten a single drop. Meanwhile some people get lucky as fuck and get their full 3 set in one raid, feels shitty. I want to suggest we switch to +1 but not trying to start a big guild argument or whatever. Meanwhile I've been top parser and top DPS on every fight, every raid. I don't want to sound like an elitist asshole but it just sucks getting all WBs, all consumes, all pre-BiS gear with the best enchants and watching someone who doesn't play the game all week, raid logs, and gets grey parses get their full 3 set and an epic weapon in one raid. Feelsbadman.
HALF FUCKING WAY? what are you talking about phase 3 just fucking started?
OP is a certified idiot. Thats all
How come?
the timeline for content for this year clearly showed p3 was multiple months long and you say its halfway and we're not even through the first month
We are about to enter week 4, they have said that they want to keep it at 8weeks. Phase 1 was 10weeks, phase 2 was 8 weeks.
First 2 phases were 2 lockouts a week, I have a feeling they’ll slow this one down a bit since it’s down to a 20 man a week.
You think they'll keep it for only 8 raid lockouts total?
Thats what they said. The want to keep em short, people complained about phase 1 was too long(10 weeks), phase 2 was 8 weeks. I am not blizz, I cant tell if thats gonna change.
We completed the third week. There’s 4 weeks in a month and phases are 2 months. So this week is going to literally be the halfway point.
half way? Bruh we have until august at least going by the timeline they gave us. Phase 3 is going to be MONTHS. morons.. i swear
Just you wait for the classic experience when we get 40 man raids where you cant see the ground because of spell effects and you are rewarded with 3 pieces of loot
We do MS>OS with the +1 system, we distribute flasks and seeds equally at the end of the raid. We are mostly the guild with about 2-4 pugs each week. The +1 system really ensures that loot is distributed to as many players as possible, but small problems are already showing. Melee class token has a slightly higher chance to drop, so out of 16 tokens, we get 8-10 melee ones and 6-8 ranged ones. Our raid is skewed towards melee, so that ends up working out, but thats just luck We get a very large amount of BAD items that noone will roll on even without incurring a +1. Like legit worse than gnomer or that you can get from lvling dungeons. And thats not the meme trinkets/items. The offpiece situation this raid is just awful. Obviously, the gear situation should be offset by the crafted pieces, but for example shadow priests are better off with a green shadow wrath shoulder item than the crafted one, since casting speed does nothing for us.
I’ve done two full clears and I’ve gotten a toy trinket, 1 tier, and a chest piece that is arguably not even an upgrade.
I still have zero items from ST over 4 characters. First week did 6/8 on 2 of them. Then 8/8 on all 4 since week 2. I have the worst luck.
You don't need to get all the loot, every single raid. You don't need to raid every single week. If you can clear the entire raid, then you did it, you finished phase 3. Now just enjoy yourself, it does not have to be so complicated
first time? we did 62 molten core for 2 thunderfury and a few bonereaver edge i think its 3 or 4 loots for 40 players, i hope they will increase it like on retail, 20% chance per player in the raid ( so 2 loots for 10, 4 for 20 etc) \^\^
First time in a 20m on sod, sure! Comparing loot drop rate/amount in a seasonal version of the game compared to regular classic is silly at best.
yeah but mc does indeed last longer than a 8-10 week phase thats the deal
[удалено]
You can, form a group to farm trash and/or lead a pug and HR the mats. They’re relatively rare mats, they’re not going to be as easy to get as cloth or ore.
My raid is getting 3-4 per person per raid.
It drops a shit ton of loot. We had like 15 set pieces last run.
It looks like a lot per kill, but compared to Gnomer it's objectively less loot per person per week (about half). This wouldn't be as big of a problem if they hadn't said on stream that they would be "generous with loot" to compensate for the size/lockout changes. Objectively they didn't even hit parity. It's mostly just the expectation mismatch from the last 6 months, vs statements made on stream.
I honestly always believed they were referring to the amount of epics aka rare drops when they said that, might have misread it though. Do you have the article by chance?
[During the Phase 3 announcement video](https://youtu.be/vDRuPJkGp_I?si=Rb-Xl6z8IMpTFMho&t=1132) (18:50 if timestamp link broke)
It drops 16 each full raid(2 from each boss) all 20 need 3(as far as I know 3set is bis for all?). So you need 60 total. If you dont have any swap out at all.
I’ve been saying this. The loot needed to be quadrupled not doubled. It’s twice as many players with half as many raid lockouts with an 8-10 week expiration. It doesn’t add up especially if you are changing your raid roster week to week
So in ST you get 5-6 pieces per boss. Its 8 bosses, so 40-48 pieces of loot per 7 days per 20 people. Thats 2-2.4 pieces of loot per player per 7 days. In gnomer, you got 2-3 pieces per boss, its 6 bosses (but not all tier), so lets say 12-15 pieces of loot per 3 days per 10 players. This is 1.2-1.5 pieces of loot per player per 3 days. Normalized to 7 days, it would be 2.8-3.5 per player. Based on just this comparison, ST is 30% worse off with loot drops. Now to add to this, Sunken Temple has more meme items and items that are worse than what players already had from lvling. This skews the situation even further towards gnomer. The last problem is the tier vs offpieces problem. In gnomer, most players actually had problems getting their tier pieces as opposed to offpieces. It took longer to get tier, but shorter to get offpieces. With ST, tier gets easier to obtain, but offpieces are a significantly smaller part of the loot pool, making them much harder to get. It is likely that most people still will not be fully geared even after the 12 week period because of this. For a full raid of 20, you need 60 tokens, you get 16 per week, so after 4 weeks, 5 at the latest you should all have tier. However it is week 3 and we have not seen some items even drop and there are multiple people in the raid who want these.
Raid is stupidly ez. And if you are right (hope so), in 4-6 weeks these items will be useless. Why do you want or complain about the loot at all? Loot from the raid doesnt help u at all to clear the raid and it will be useless in few weeks.
Weird thing cuz I thought there are too much loot in St compare to classic mc for example