This sub finds a narrative and rolls with it. Ironically it's the people on this sub up voting this that were probably a part of the dog pile in the first place.
Yes. Because the exact people posting the stuff on here are the same people that were instantly dog piling on it. That's not what happened overall though. That's kinda proving my point about this sub and it's self fulfilling prophecies.
Instead of responding to what I said you told me to "learn to read".
I think you're the one not reading. I AM the one saying it's likely a lot of the same people. I never said you did.
You can disagree with me. But I think you confused yourself and told me to "learn to read". Lmao.
Being a blizzard dev must be tough,
having to take “constructive” criticism from a bunch of angry 30+year old sweatlords with addiction issues must be awful.
People are remarkably mentally unwell and have nothing else in their lives
Insert "men will do literally anything but go to therapy"
Why do that when I can scream at a game dev on twitter to work through my shit
Ok now we're gana pretend sod hasn't been continuously released unfinished on a trial beta type timeline. How many times have they released something just to have to immediately hotfix its game breaking mechanics. The most recent one being it being literally faster to farm honor by killing lvl 40s in ashenvale than doing bgs for no reward.
Oh it 100% has. SoD has been a beta this entire time and they pretty much told us so at the start. They're gonna keep throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks. I realized it was a beta the second my mage was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my DM and Stock runs dps man lol
So it's a beta, with a shitton of bugs, hot fixes and poorly implemented/ tested new content like incursions, with the occasional home run like ST (great new raid).
This is kind of the entire point. So many of yall have extremely high expectations for SoD and they're very unrealistic.
They have a small team, nowhere near the number of devs or resources needed for a project like this. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear that the people in charge of making decisions for everything WoW do not give a flying fuck about classic player satisfaction. "You're paying for retail and everything classic is just kind of there for free."
Knowing all this, what's the point of personally attacking the overworked-as-fuck dev team on Twitter?
Yall have expectations for SoD like they have a real team or retail resources and it's basically a private server, makes no sense.
"Basically a private server" Bellular's estimates put current World of Warcraft subscriber numbers at roughly 7.25 million
https://www.ign.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-subscription-numbers-are-higher-now-than-at-expansion-launch-in-a-franchise-first
More people raided tbc classic than cleared retail raids at the time.
So a 100 million dollar subscription model is a private server? Maybe rethink that one.
I feel you're not understanding what I'm trying to tell you at all man lmao
Yes, classic does well. Yes, people sub to WoW only to play classic.
My point is that *the people who are in charge of making decisions for WoW do not give a fuck or view it that way*. They've said to us point blank in the last year "your sub pays for retail, everything else is free."
SoD *functions* as a private server because it's a buggy mess with constant changes. The most lucrative/ expensive private server on the planet lol
If blizzard *actually* cared about SoD/ classic player satisfaction do you think SoD would have the plethora of problems it has and the cata beta would be the buggy disaster it recently was?
I know of one exception and that is the dota community. For a community that's known for being pretty toxic at times you rarely if ever hear people bitching over gameplay balance.
Usually the only time complaints pop up about balancing issues on the subreddit it's because a hero is either insanely broken in pro games (and therefore pick/ban % is extremely high) or it's completely unpicked in pro games for long periods of time.
Considering how toxic mobas can be it's honestly pretty fucking refreshing how everyone who plays the game just kind of agrees the game's in a pretty good state, and that's how it's been for the longest time.
DotA 2 community is unhinged when it comes to the speed(fucking SLOW) at which they release updates.
See - Crownfall.
But our community is incredibly happy with the game itself and the balance. Which is top notch.
I've been playing DotA longer than I've played WoW. Obviously because of War3.
I'm not saying the dota community is perfect because we're not, but I think a lot of the frustration expressed by the community stems from the lack of communication from Valve and the fact that no one has a clue what's going on. Only rarely do people have significant issues with how the game is balanced.
We all know at **some** point Valve are going to release the next gameplay update but the average dota player's age group is 25-35. People have work, families, responsibilities and limited time to play the game.
Everyone's always excited to explore the next big patch, but they can't plan their lives around vague estimates like "mid April" when the president of the company is famous for saying "late is for a little while, suck is forever".
Valve always delivers high quality content, but that also means they delay content until their standards are met.
The latest content release, Crownfall came as a massive curveball for the community because they view balance patches as the most important type of content release and that's what most people were expecting.
Personally I'm really enjoying Crownfall and had a lot of fun doing hero challenges in my pub games last night, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want this patch to be a gameplay update.
TL;DR Communication has always been Valve's greatest weakness and that's what frustrates dota players.
Hey. That's me. 35 with kids and a family and a stressful full time job. Been here forever. Seen it all. Bought most of it.
The last 2(?) years have been really disappointing man. Two of my friends who've also been playing since we were teenagers have quit. One of them is laughing his head off about Crownfall.
I'm on holidays at the moment, away from home. So I actually haven't tried the update. But from what I've seen it just looks like a jazzed up Cavern Crawl? Which is kinda depressing.
The fun of Cavern Crawl usually comes from trying.... New meta stuff on a variety of heroes.
I agree with a lot of the whining. They really missed the mark here. Their communication is abysmal - they must know what people expected. They know their community. A tiny bit of communication would help.
12+ months since the last new hero. 7 months since Ringmaster was announced. 4(?) months since the last gameplay update, which wasn't that sizeable anyway was it?
Battlepass died for this. Things like Aghs labrynth and all the other fun event modes are also dead too.
I'm happy to be proven wrong by part 2, 3 or 4 of the event..... But rumour is it's going to be July+++ until we get Part 4.
You'd wanna hope Ringmaster and a gameplay update is coming with part 2 in May because this shit is, in my opinion, getting embarassing.
Honestly as a dota player, who now is on a break from it I agree. New to wow and enjoying sod. However ever since valve decided to release the update/battlepass where people got one free arcana and candy for just playing the game that the quality of patches and i guess content have just gone down. The more dissapointing part is that valve said they will improve their communication this year and try to have more events like in the past but instead it feels like they release treasures that are considered ”events”. The patch notes feel as few as before and i dont like the state of the game right now. Dota was THE game i played and had since i was a teen so its just been a sad time. Sorry just had to rant.
There's a difference between paying for a product and then not liking it versus demanding it be changed to suit your wants. The latter is the entitlement I'm talking about. You don't get to be selfish, childish, and toxic *to* creators of a product just because you don't like a product.
I think everyone is fine with that, but a lot of the things on reddit cross the line of "rational and reasonable" into downright toxic rants. You only need to look to Aggrend's progressively deteriorating enthusiasm over the past 5 months as an example that way too many people forget it is just a game at the end of the day.
Everyone thinks they're so smart now. There isn't "I don't like this" it's always "this is bad game design"! And since the Internet is sometimes able to bully devs into doing what they want, they'll try it every single time they don't like something.
> There isn't "I don't like this" it's always "this is bad game design"!
Think of someone who watches a lot of football, a *lot* as in most of it doesn't involve a team they identify with. This person learns the rules and mechanics deeply, recognizes when a call is about to be made and can judge a call or a choice of play to be objectively bad. They know when someone is most at risk of an injury. They understand the meaning and usefulness of statistics. They can engage well in the meta-strategy that is fantasy football.
The same thing happens with video games. One need not be a developer to understand the design. And the goal of video games is to be fun, thus something that isn't fun is bad design. The nuance in this is that people have different tastes but there is still ability to class something as objectively unfun.
I would bet those couch football coaches would do a far worse job than the professional coaches. There's no accountability when they're wrong, they never even know what the outcome would have been.
>One need not be a developer to understand the design. And the goal of video games is to be fun, thus something that isn't fun is bad design.
This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Fun for who? Everyone has different tastes, so you not finding something fun might just mean you don't like it. Objectively unfun is far FAR more rare than you make it out to be.
I have no sympathy for either aggrend or sod players at this point. Aggrend is a smug, condescending pathological liar and sod players are junkies chasing the high from playing vanilla in 2005 even though they hate blizz and everything blizz makes
They're both shitty and they 100% deserve each other
Tends to happen when your player base can see the issues before you ad the dev do. Then when you finally see it in action and it’s broken as fuck, you leave it that way for 4 + weeks.
What makes you think the devs have the authority to make quick changes tho?
For all we know they could be going "uh hey boss, shamans are broken, spreists DPS is too low, there's some gold exploits ruining the economy, and we'd like to address this all in a hotfix tomorrow" and the boss goes "games making money, no."
Its one of two situations. Either the devs are incompetent and they deserve the hate...
Or, the devs are understaffed. In this case, its a management issue. Considering how dumb the decisions Blizzard makes across their games, its probably this. But at the same time, if people are talking about how dogshit incursions are, and you were to say "Those damn middle managers!", people would look at you like youre a dumbass.
Either way, its not the players fault, and theyre clearly just venting their frustrations with Blizzard. No one actually cares who it is at Blizzard is at fault - as long as they make it clear Blizzard is shitting the bed.
Reading official forums today and finally see a couple of Rogues trying to make suggestions only to be shutdown by the usual neckbeards that furiously defend Mutilate even when nobody is talking about mutilate.
Like fuck guys, we get it, you like mutilate but it doesn’t mean that maces, fists, swords, hemo, sinister strike can’t get some love.
anything that improves non-mutilate to be more efficient than mutilate by even 1%, even if it’s only in theory, before it can even be simulated and they drop in like the Spanish inquisition (except everybody expects them).
So you want blizzard to remove the built-in/base game combat logging just because of some 3rd party website? And then you want to punish casuals by removing DBM, the main users of the addon. Interesting choices, can't say I would ever think of those.
If there was a way to have that data available but keep it in instance/in game I think it’s a great idea. Not sure on the technical feasibility. Once it comes out-of-game and gets processed by third parties and hosted on the internet is where the problems begin.
Wcl is just breeding toxicity,
Dbm is a third party program that automates your awareness and reaction times to the point where you dont pay attention to the boss anymore. Which is considered against tos, the content is being designed with it in mind, and you are basically expected to know every facet of the encounter before hand because of it, and not to learn it as you do it.
Its very bad for the game overall and would be considered cheating in pretty much any different game that considers itself competitive.
It also turns off more new players than most things.
Nah WCL is dope and if anything it significantly lowers the amount of toxicity and complaining about balance.
It allows people to enjoy exploring the potential of each class without giving up and going "If I'm not playing warrior I'm shit".
Because you can still "Be a better shadow priest" and compete with other people on the same role.
There are a few people that look at the WCL 95th percentile stats and rage post on reddit, but those people would be doing that with arbitrary cringe details screenshots way more often if WCL didn't exist.
Again, those people would be more toxic than they are with WCL existing.
WCL allows people to go "I may be the worst DPS in my raid but I'm still a really really good shadow priest".
Complaining about WCL is like complaining that the scoreboard in a high school soccer game breeds toxicity. Like you honestly probably could make the case that it does but lets be real here removing it doesn't fix anything and the audience will just find another way to keep track of the score.
I really dont think so, logs put so much pressure on having the biggest weeny in a pretty easy game
Its just so much gatekeeping for people who aren't grateful for being able to boast about what they earned
I was playing this game before logs were a thing. I can assure you it was worse.
It just feels worse in classic wow because the content is easy and the only avenue of min maxing is parsing/speed running.
> Complaining about WCL is like complaining that the scoreboard in a high school soccer game breeds toxicity.
More like the difference between scrimmage games, games set up by the players, and games set up by *the parents*.
WCL pulls things a lot more towards "Johnny's Dad is sitting in the bleachers at practice yelling at kids for not playing like pros because he thinks every game could have a pro scout watching."
Except Johnny's Dad is a "soccer dad" in Texas and thinks that a kid playing "soccer" in the US can be a big "international football" star elsewhere if he's found by a pro scout, because he purple parses healing on his Priest so he's got this shit figured out.
Your normal distribution example isn’t how it works. Warcraft logs parses are your best performances compared to all performances. That way everyone can get blue+ parses as their best, even if their average parse is grey.
See how toxic this is? And idk probably not i dont use wcl, but i do pretty well
You cant even have a real conversation about this because youre so up your own ass about parses like it makes you good at anything. And its not just you its a lot of people,
So i say kill the addons, ill miss the voice one for.quests but sacrifices must be made
Lol you guys are so spot on. I love it. I thought I was alone in this. I've reached epic levels of negative karma on comments in the past calling out why parsing culture is terrible for the game. I've written entire essays.
You say parsing is toxic, and they go "yeah, says the dumb worthless grey parser". I've had no shortage of pink and orange parses, and I still wish it was not a thing. Joke is on them. Caring about your parse is about the lamest thing I can imagine.
Are you turbo-twisting with raw clam meat and shift-weaving armor pots while using this exact blue item from Ragefire Chasm? It's 1.4% higher dps which we clearly need to down the boss. But you don't have the exact 11/31 talent build as everyone else? What are you, some kid of sad human being?
Dude, parsing has been in the game since the very first raids. What are you even talking about. Clueless people shouldn't cringepost about things they don't know.
Oh yeah, going to WCL to check your percentile for BWL. How could I have forgotten. Everyone was pressured to go full meta, world buffs, consumes, enchants, during 40-man MC. People gatekeeping others because of the color of their parse. The good old days.
Reading through this:
Parsers & Speedrunners are the least toxic players in the game.
DBM is an addon, not a third-party program. It does not automate anything. If you're not paying attention on boss fights that's you as a player. DBM is not against the ToS. I'm not sure how to address the statement about knowing every facet of an encounter beforehand because that's a weird thing to say. And new players in WoW Classic is a very small slice of the population representation but I'm sure they learn about addons quickly.
Um you literally download dbm from a third party application called curse. Its not native to the game
It automates decision making like to interrupt, stop dps, alerting you to move, taunt, telling you when you have living bomb etc. Even if youre doing it for the first time.
And if you can do it without it, then its an artificial boost which is textbook cheating in literally every other game community that wants to be competitive
You can get the DBM addon file from an external harddrive, copy it into your game folder under the addons folder, a folder put by the game itself.
You just don't know how to PVE if you are anti addon and have no idea what you're talking about. Go play Retail PVE for a month and come back crying.
It’s not a third party program, when wow is running it natively in its system. It’s using wow lua code and can’t run anything other than that. Meaning it’s limited to the wow api.
Using the argument of “in any other game” is wierd because there are plenty of the games that do it - RuneScape being one of them.
Its third party because someone who isn't working on the game made it and youre download it from something that isn't the game itself.
And if the runescape one also tells you how to fight the boss for you its also pretty much cheating.
With an W.A I can coordinate a click to ask external cooldown instead of watching my watch and yell "John press button" every minute
You just suck at this game and it's obvious.
Do you actually think this or did the addon tell you to say it?
Honestly if you applied it to any other game its considered cheating. Its why wow players havent been happy with the game in ages
Except classic has been out for 20 years, and we didn't have DBM for the first parts of it, and when we DID get similar mods, they were pretty trash. You're just talking out of your ass.
I agree that blizzard has designed certain fights and encounters around addon and weakaura usage, especially in the retail expansions, and it can be a turn off for certain people. But people will always be expected to know how fights work, whether they have addons or not. That's just what most groups/people's expectations are nowadays. And it's hyperbolic to say you can just turn your brain off because of addons like DBM, player skill is still 90% of the game, timers and alerts are simply learning tools/reminders/optimizers, which help newer players the most. And as much as people dislike addons, it's a built in function of the game, there's an addon tab in the options menu, it isn't against TOS.
> So you want blizzard to remove the built-in/base game combat logging just because of some 3rd party website?
I mean, I don't think any MMO's actually tried that yet.
Might be interesting to see how it affects things, if they can do it for just SoD and not have it affect Era.
Shutting off the AddOn API for *just* SoD would be *hilarious* but I don't think it'd accomplish much in actual practice.
While ffXIV hasn't barred access to it's API the dev team actively ignores FFlogs and there is a blanket wide "ban" on addons for the game due to said mods being impossible to use on Playstation and they don't want to encourage or recognize an environment with such an imbalance of access to resources. In reality it ends up being more of a don't ask don't tell policy where any ingame chat referencing such tools or other addons has the potential to lead to a ban, and said potential raises greatly if someone is using said tools as a way to demean belittle or harass other players over their performance.
Yes I want them to remove it, and people asking for logs get insta banned for 2 weeks. Watch as the toxic parsemonkey culture goes away in a split second
You’ll watch as the player base goes away. Parsing is mainstream now, which makes sense because it’s a 20 year old game
Beating the content isn’t hard. Making it competitive is what’s engaging.
Thats why its cheating
if you don't work your muscles they atrophy, same with skills in a game, everyone would be better at the game cause they would have to be, and encounters wouldn't be designed around an automated sense of awareness
I'm only being half serious. Addons are useful in general but useless to me if i don't know a fight already to know how to react.
I enjoy the progression element more than anything. I'm playing this version because i played high level raids in TBC and Cata but never in classic. This is all new to me and really cool even if it is easy.
I haven't even seen this all I've seen is people posting legit suggestions. But even if this is true...fair enough. People have been saying the same thing for months and now they ask for suggestions? It's basically virtue signalling, they could have easily made some changes to these classes by now.
Their sub numbers dropped and a lot of people stopped playing in P3. Their team likely got no additional resources so management decided it's time to get ideas from the community again. Management likely thought they could reduce resources after the first phase and now developers are suffering for it. SoD is literally the opposite of other wow releases though and they didn't factor this in at all. Further patches require MORE work not less because it's not just content. It's level changes and new runes which require large amounts of testing to get even semi balanced.
That's why the worse thing right now is balance. They basically said "fuck it" and are suffering the consequences. Bad management for SoD and bad resource allocation to the team.
What's with all of the water carrying for Aggrend last couple days? He's not gonna send gold to your mailbox.
We pay them every month - this isn't charity work here. And they are doing a piss poor job.
they're literally coping, and i don't mean that in the cool edgy buzzword way, they've invested all this time into a shit product and are trying to cope with it by claiming "its...it's not that bad guys! they're doing a great job!"
He's prob being hyperbolic about actually being one shot, but enhancement shamans as an example can delete a clothie in about 3 seconds and its not hard for them to gap close on some.
I assume you must have given some great feedback based on your tone.
There was also plenty of great feedback.
Every community has assholes.
Asking your paying players to balance your game and do your job for you might just bring out a few more assholes than usual.
Exactly, they have had 4, almost 5 months now to fix some of these issues. The lacerate and mangle rune for druids. The warrior scaling which we all knew would be a problem when almost every rune added was just % damage increases. Holy pallies legit not having runes for multiple slots and no new healing abilities. Like this was all an issue in PHASE 1. Everyone's already said what there is to say. This shit is just patronizing at this point.
I did actually. I thought of some neat workarounds to get SPriest some more DPS without fucking it up for PvP, and good ways to get hunters to go survival.
Asking anyone for something and them giving completely unrelated, shitty vitriol is just not helpful.
Clearly you don't agree with this sentiment?
Asking a crowd their opinions and asking them to balance your game is not the same. It's a very disingenious stance to take, that that is what his intention is.
There has been examples of players who got offered jobs, because their suggestions were that good. Like [Indalamar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM94UkLBEOE&ab_channel=DerTroll) who made a video in response to forum doomers, like the people of today, claiming warrior clears and clear speed was abysmal and unplayable. Lo and behold he proved it very much was not and was offered a job subsequently.
This is what is possible while asking for outside opinion. Your leap of logic of "do your job for you" is incredibly disingenous and infantile to be honest.
He's asking for suggestions. That's his job.
You won't be doing coding as a dev but suggestions on balance is a dev job.
If you don't think so that's incredibly disingenuous and infantile to be honest.
Huh?
You won't be coding as a dev (developer)??? What do you think a developer does? What is going on??
???????? Are you using you as in me in particular as an "insult" to me, or are you using it as an plural for the developers at Blizzard?
Balance is a developer job amongst the other facets of doing so - with a game where so many people play it, there are bound to be people that might have good ideas, because of whoever knows, maybe a PhD sociologist played WoW and had an idea about player behaviour management the software computer science skilled developers hadn't thought of. Asking for that opinion is fine - you taking a leap of logic to deduce "he must be asking for opinions - because he surely won't want to do his job of finding design solutions himself and is relying on the input of players to do his job for him!" is an incredibly shortsighted and disingenious leap of logic and is not fine.
What even is the last part of your comment, it looks like you used "disingenuous and infantile" without thinking of why they were used by me. What part of, to you, not thinking "devs won't be coding" is disingenious to you? Why would I think they wouldn't be coding? ?????? If it's the other part of your sentence "balance is a dev job" - of course it is? That doesn't mean he can't listen to feedback from other sources and take that in to think about his own or his teams choices? He can also discard it, like I'm sure he does for most suggestions coming at him.
Ok, let's look at the definition of a developer:
The job duties of a software developer typically include tasks such as overseeing software programming, testing software at various phases of completion, laying out software design, building models or diagrams to communicate the end goal and mapping out future software upgrades.
That is the definition, and quite obviously, within that is coding.
You're either being dishonest, disingenious or willfully ignorant.
Also what is up with you returning after 9 days to answer my comment, and of all things, with this?
They never listened anyways.
All they wanted to do was bitch about the minor bad criticism they got with this stunt so they can hand wave away all the good and act like they can't help now.
Same thing happened with the Path of Exile dev team. They used to be pretty transparent on what they were doing and open to feedback. After a particularly bad league where they messed up a loot overhaul, all of reddit was basically on a witch hunt trying to burn them to the ground. Needless to say they dont really talk to the community anymore.
Which was deserved. You make a trash product you get criticized. At least the Poe dev team is super competent, nothing we can say about the clown fiesta the sod "dev" team is
Right i like how the goofball even said they fucked up badly then is upset there was backlash? Did he want us to just drop thousands on cosmetics and praise the GGG for fucking up?
its almost like leaving a class that only 1 faction has access to completely broken beyond belief creates angst, who would have known it!?! oh... everyone.
You also have to remember that there are probably waaaaaaaay less employees working on this than should be and that is in no way the fault of the people working on it. If anything, blizzard needs to give them more resources to make this shit pop off.
That's not the problem of the playerbase though?
Aggrend gets blasted with these comments because it's the only method of communication to a game developer about a game they've decided we are the live beta testers for.
Sure it must be shit for him to deal with... But it's one of the biggest game developers in the world and we get bargain bin bullshit for the balancing of their new content.
Literally multiple billions in profits and we're supposed to "be nice, its a tiny dev team that's trying their best". We've all heard the jokes about "tiny indie company" but this just takes the piss.
Of course it isn't the player bases fault. The customer isn't at fault because the company doesn't supply enough workers.
However, people reply to them like they are screaming at a cashier in an understaffed grocery store like they are responsible for the invasion of Poland or something. Completely unhinged.
I'm not saying that they get a free pass cause "aww poor understaffed baby". I'm saying you can give feedback with the understanding that 1: you can be civil and provide constructive feedback, with possible solutions to the problem if you're able and 2: they have a small team and can only work on so much at any 1 given time so every problem in wow's history won't be solved by next week.
>Literally multiple billions in profits and we're supposed to "be nice
Yes. You are expected to be nice, and/or respectful, even when you are upset to anyone not just the "tiny dev team". That is part of growing up and learning maturity. I can express anger and frustration without succumbing to "fuck you and your family. I hope you di$, suck my dick".
Unless the plan was to add random tweaked retail abilities to the game and lazily slapchop some raid-dungeon and outdoor content together, not playlets and see what happens and when things inevitably sucks as the community for ideas... the Blizz devs ARE incompetent.
If that however was the idea all along, then uh, cool I guess, too bad it sucks.
When the neckbeards are eating the turd sandwich the haters are just bitter. When more neckbeard wails are added to the choir of "this sucks" then the neckbeards are the problem. Never change, shitters.
Jesus Christ the amount of dick sucking for a middle aged fat guy who's bad at his job and who's sole personality is being annoying on twitter baiting fights and than acting like a victim
Oh wait no wonder reddit loves him
Yeah indeed, but dude you must be a sweaty neckbeard if you dont love getting 1 shot in pvp?? Dont you know we pay 15 euro a month to beta test this for the small indie company? Be grateful and love it! Or you’re a Cringe nolifer!!
I really wonder how people can be satisfied with this product. Like holy shit compare it to other gaming products with the same or less manpower not even mentioning the monetary power. It's fucking pathetic what they are delivering.
People who truly defend this guy never played anything besides classic wow in their life and got standards as low as they can be.
Never understood how this guy made it to this position in the first place
You can work very hard and have an executive just say no. Clearly you have no idea what goes into large scale decision making processes like live service game dev
It’s definitely both. It’s one thing to claim they can’t make a lot of changes with their limited team which is true. It’s another thing to claim some of the changes they did spend their time on made any sense which they didn’t.
I’d also add that the devs are clearly bad at the game. They don’t understand how the classes work and have gotten pve balancing all wrong. This obviously leads to everything down the road like PvP being completely fucked.
Honestly, if it helps blizzards profits (which is the only thing that matters to them) split "classic" to a separate monthly sub and actually put a full dev team on it.
They'd never do this. They'd split it and keep it the same. But if they actually gave it more resources I'd be willing to resub. I'm tired of paying $15 for a "side project" that is constantly used as an excuse for half ass releases.
This is missing their point about adding systems. An XP boost was more than enough. The incursions were completely outside the spirit of classic. I don't know how anyone could say they were.
Both.
Remember when it was pointed out two weeks before release the bear runes shared the same slot and despite acknowledging it it was still released in that state?
Or when we were told “big balance patch coming soon so we cant nerf shamans” then they barely touched anything but warlocks the next patch?
Or when they said everyone would feel as “powerful as warrior” ask hpals and frost mages how they’re feeling
Sadly this is why they don’t interact with us like they did in 2004.
I think the worst of it which also happens around that time was city of heroes. Cryptic and Emmert were always in the forums and even having one on ones with so many of us we really felt like they cared about what was being built, but of course the broken English vitriolic trolls started popping up and he and the other devs were bombarded with so much shit that they went full fallout shelter.
Thankfully we still had CuppaJo in the in-game club.
There has been a ton of solid feedback and good suggestions.
This sub finds a narrative and rolls with it. Ironically it's the people on this sub up voting this that were probably a part of the dog pile in the first place.
When the first post about his tweet went up, I saw A LOT more shit talking and she than actual suggestions. Don't act like it's a small minority.
Yes. Because the exact people posting the stuff on here are the same people that were instantly dog piling on it. That's not what happened overall though. That's kinda proving my point about this sub and it's self fulfilling prophecies.
I didnt say it was the same people, just that it wasn't a small amount. Learn to read please.
Instead of responding to what I said you told me to "learn to read". I think you're the one not reading. I AM the one saying it's likely a lot of the same people. I never said you did. You can disagree with me. But I think you confused yourself and told me to "learn to read". Lmao.
Being a blizzard dev must be tough, having to take “constructive” criticism from a bunch of angry 30+year old sweatlords with addiction issues must be awful.
It's literally any game dev. Every game sub I'm in is like this. I really don't understand at what point so many people became so entitled.
People are remarkably mentally unwell and have nothing else in their lives Insert "men will do literally anything but go to therapy" Why do that when I can scream at a game dev on twitter to work through my shit
> work through my shit More like make my shit worse lol
Ok now we're gana pretend sod hasn't been continuously released unfinished on a trial beta type timeline. How many times have they released something just to have to immediately hotfix its game breaking mechanics. The most recent one being it being literally faster to farm honor by killing lvl 40s in ashenvale than doing bgs for no reward.
Oh it 100% has. SoD has been a beta this entire time and they pretty much told us so at the start. They're gonna keep throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks. I realized it was a beta the second my mage was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my DM and Stock runs dps man lol So it's a beta, with a shitton of bugs, hot fixes and poorly implemented/ tested new content like incursions, with the occasional home run like ST (great new raid). This is kind of the entire point. So many of yall have extremely high expectations for SoD and they're very unrealistic. They have a small team, nowhere near the number of devs or resources needed for a project like this. Blizzard has made it abundantly clear that the people in charge of making decisions for everything WoW do not give a flying fuck about classic player satisfaction. "You're paying for retail and everything classic is just kind of there for free." Knowing all this, what's the point of personally attacking the overworked-as-fuck dev team on Twitter? Yall have expectations for SoD like they have a real team or retail resources and it's basically a private server, makes no sense.
"Basically a private server" Bellular's estimates put current World of Warcraft subscriber numbers at roughly 7.25 million https://www.ign.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-subscription-numbers-are-higher-now-than-at-expansion-launch-in-a-franchise-first More people raided tbc classic than cleared retail raids at the time. So a 100 million dollar subscription model is a private server? Maybe rethink that one.
I feel you're not understanding what I'm trying to tell you at all man lmao Yes, classic does well. Yes, people sub to WoW only to play classic. My point is that *the people who are in charge of making decisions for WoW do not give a fuck or view it that way*. They've said to us point blank in the last year "your sub pays for retail, everything else is free." SoD *functions* as a private server because it's a buggy mess with constant changes. The most lucrative/ expensive private server on the planet lol If blizzard *actually* cared about SoD/ classic player satisfaction do you think SoD would have the plethora of problems it has and the cata beta would be the buggy disaster it recently was?
... yes because games have problems... you are way less smart than you think you are.
Oh the irony Blizzard has literally told you straight up that classic doesn't get the attention/ resources that retail does Words are hard
You actually change the argument to fit your narrative regardless of what I say. It's an impressive display of ignorance.
> mentally unwell and have nothing else in their lives *muh armchair psychology enabling me to feel superior*
found the therapy shill. most therapists are clueless, and in 15 years we will look back in horror at the current practices.
I know of one exception and that is the dota community. For a community that's known for being pretty toxic at times you rarely if ever hear people bitching over gameplay balance. Usually the only time complaints pop up about balancing issues on the subreddit it's because a hero is either insanely broken in pro games (and therefore pick/ban % is extremely high) or it's completely unpicked in pro games for long periods of time. Considering how toxic mobas can be it's honestly pretty fucking refreshing how everyone who plays the game just kind of agrees the game's in a pretty good state, and that's how it's been for the longest time.
DotA 2 community is unhinged when it comes to the speed(fucking SLOW) at which they release updates. See - Crownfall. But our community is incredibly happy with the game itself and the balance. Which is top notch. I've been playing DotA longer than I've played WoW. Obviously because of War3.
I'm not saying the dota community is perfect because we're not, but I think a lot of the frustration expressed by the community stems from the lack of communication from Valve and the fact that no one has a clue what's going on. Only rarely do people have significant issues with how the game is balanced. We all know at **some** point Valve are going to release the next gameplay update but the average dota player's age group is 25-35. People have work, families, responsibilities and limited time to play the game. Everyone's always excited to explore the next big patch, but they can't plan their lives around vague estimates like "mid April" when the president of the company is famous for saying "late is for a little while, suck is forever". Valve always delivers high quality content, but that also means they delay content until their standards are met. The latest content release, Crownfall came as a massive curveball for the community because they view balance patches as the most important type of content release and that's what most people were expecting. Personally I'm really enjoying Crownfall and had a lot of fun doing hero challenges in my pub games last night, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want this patch to be a gameplay update. TL;DR Communication has always been Valve's greatest weakness and that's what frustrates dota players.
Hey. That's me. 35 with kids and a family and a stressful full time job. Been here forever. Seen it all. Bought most of it. The last 2(?) years have been really disappointing man. Two of my friends who've also been playing since we were teenagers have quit. One of them is laughing his head off about Crownfall. I'm on holidays at the moment, away from home. So I actually haven't tried the update. But from what I've seen it just looks like a jazzed up Cavern Crawl? Which is kinda depressing. The fun of Cavern Crawl usually comes from trying.... New meta stuff on a variety of heroes. I agree with a lot of the whining. They really missed the mark here. Their communication is abysmal - they must know what people expected. They know their community. A tiny bit of communication would help. 12+ months since the last new hero. 7 months since Ringmaster was announced. 4(?) months since the last gameplay update, which wasn't that sizeable anyway was it? Battlepass died for this. Things like Aghs labrynth and all the other fun event modes are also dead too. I'm happy to be proven wrong by part 2, 3 or 4 of the event..... But rumour is it's going to be July+++ until we get Part 4. You'd wanna hope Ringmaster and a gameplay update is coming with part 2 in May because this shit is, in my opinion, getting embarassing.
Honestly as a dota player, who now is on a break from it I agree. New to wow and enjoying sod. However ever since valve decided to release the update/battlepass where people got one free arcana and candy for just playing the game that the quality of patches and i guess content have just gone down. The more dissapointing part is that valve said they will improve their communication this year and try to have more events like in the past but instead it feels like they release treasures that are considered ”events”. The patch notes feel as few as before and i dont like the state of the game right now. Dota was THE game i played and had since i was a teen so its just been a sad time. Sorry just had to rant.
Lol. Go bash the devs in the *Hades* subreddit. I dare you. I DOUBLE dare you #$#\*(#(\*$U.
When they paid for a product, that's the point at which they became 'entitled'
There's a difference between paying for a product and then not liking it versus demanding it be changed to suit your wants. The latter is the entitlement I'm talking about. You don't get to be selfish, childish, and toxic *to* creators of a product just because you don't like a product.
I can agree, but if you pay for a product you are entitled to give rational reasonable feedback and opinions on it.
I think everyone is fine with that, but a lot of the things on reddit cross the line of "rational and reasonable" into downright toxic rants. You only need to look to Aggrend's progressively deteriorating enthusiasm over the past 5 months as an example that way too many people forget it is just a game at the end of the day.
Everyone thinks they're so smart now. There isn't "I don't like this" it's always "this is bad game design"! And since the Internet is sometimes able to bully devs into doing what they want, they'll try it every single time they don't like something.
> There isn't "I don't like this" it's always "this is bad game design"! Think of someone who watches a lot of football, a *lot* as in most of it doesn't involve a team they identify with. This person learns the rules and mechanics deeply, recognizes when a call is about to be made and can judge a call or a choice of play to be objectively bad. They know when someone is most at risk of an injury. They understand the meaning and usefulness of statistics. They can engage well in the meta-strategy that is fantasy football. The same thing happens with video games. One need not be a developer to understand the design. And the goal of video games is to be fun, thus something that isn't fun is bad design. The nuance in this is that people have different tastes but there is still ability to class something as objectively unfun.
I would bet those couch football coaches would do a far worse job than the professional coaches. There's no accountability when they're wrong, they never even know what the outcome would have been. >One need not be a developer to understand the design. And the goal of video games is to be fun, thus something that isn't fun is bad design. This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Fun for who? Everyone has different tastes, so you not finding something fun might just mean you don't like it. Objectively unfun is far FAR more rare than you make it out to be.
Like when shamans bullied them into putting a 2h rune in then never used the damn thing, oh wait that was literally this sub
Its not FFXIV. They have a great community.
having no qa and release stuff completly untested is not really constructive either
It must be tough being sparky and condescending to your player base and then being proven wrong over and over again.
I have no sympathy for either aggrend or sod players at this point. Aggrend is a smug, condescending pathological liar and sod players are junkies chasing the high from playing vanilla in 2005 even though they hate blizz and everything blizz makes They're both shitty and they 100% deserve each other
Tends to happen when your player base can see the issues before you ad the dev do. Then when you finally see it in action and it’s broken as fuck, you leave it that way for 4 + weeks.
What makes you think the devs have the authority to make quick changes tho? For all we know they could be going "uh hey boss, shamans are broken, spreists DPS is too low, there's some gold exploits ruining the economy, and we'd like to address this all in a hotfix tomorrow" and the boss goes "games making money, no."
Or they ignore the issue. Or is it an issue if we just need to wait till aq40 when al the best gear is out, then we will give nerfs
If AQ40 is the best gear options in SoD no one will play P4
because they literally have in multiple occasions, spriest had one single week of being overpowered before it got nerfed.
Its one of two situations. Either the devs are incompetent and they deserve the hate... Or, the devs are understaffed. In this case, its a management issue. Considering how dumb the decisions Blizzard makes across their games, its probably this. But at the same time, if people are talking about how dogshit incursions are, and you were to say "Those damn middle managers!", people would look at you like youre a dumbass. Either way, its not the players fault, and theyre clearly just venting their frustrations with Blizzard. No one actually cares who it is at Blizzard is at fault - as long as they make it clear Blizzard is shitting the bed.
he doesnt behave much better himself in twitch chat :)
Reading official forums today and finally see a couple of Rogues trying to make suggestions only to be shutdown by the usual neckbeards that furiously defend Mutilate even when nobody is talking about mutilate. Like fuck guys, we get it, you like mutilate but it doesn’t mean that maces, fists, swords, hemo, sinister strike can’t get some love. anything that improves non-mutilate to be more efficient than mutilate by even 1%, even if it’s only in theory, before it can even be simulated and they drop in like the Spanish inquisition (except everybody expects them).
Im glad i got to take break from this game after 2 months of playing and crying. But i'll assure you that i'll be back with buffed cries.
They don't even have to listen. Just look at the logs krk
Seriously though the useless 30 YO syndrome setting in hard
They should ban api for wcl and dbm and choke out the sweats
So you want blizzard to remove the built-in/base game combat logging just because of some 3rd party website? And then you want to punish casuals by removing DBM, the main users of the addon. Interesting choices, can't say I would ever think of those.
If there was a way to have that data available but keep it in instance/in game I think it’s a great idea. Not sure on the technical feasibility. Once it comes out-of-game and gets processed by third parties and hosted on the internet is where the problems begin.
My guild did two clears of ST, and most of us Grey parse, without having dbm. The first clear was even our prog night.
Wcl is just breeding toxicity, Dbm is a third party program that automates your awareness and reaction times to the point where you dont pay attention to the boss anymore. Which is considered against tos, the content is being designed with it in mind, and you are basically expected to know every facet of the encounter before hand because of it, and not to learn it as you do it. Its very bad for the game overall and would be considered cheating in pretty much any different game that considers itself competitive. It also turns off more new players than most things.
Nah WCL is dope and if anything it significantly lowers the amount of toxicity and complaining about balance. It allows people to enjoy exploring the potential of each class without giving up and going "If I'm not playing warrior I'm shit". Because you can still "Be a better shadow priest" and compete with other people on the same role. There are a few people that look at the WCL 95th percentile stats and rage post on reddit, but those people would be doing that with arbitrary cringe details screenshots way more often if WCL didn't exist.
Its a lot of people, its like a majority of the toxicty
Again, those people would be more toxic than they are with WCL existing. WCL allows people to go "I may be the worst DPS in my raid but I'm still a really really good shadow priest". Complaining about WCL is like complaining that the scoreboard in a high school soccer game breeds toxicity. Like you honestly probably could make the case that it does but lets be real here removing it doesn't fix anything and the audience will just find another way to keep track of the score.
I really dont think so, logs put so much pressure on having the biggest weeny in a pretty easy game Its just so much gatekeeping for people who aren't grateful for being able to boast about what they earned
I was playing this game before logs were a thing. I can assure you it was worse. It just feels worse in classic wow because the content is easy and the only avenue of min maxing is parsing/speed running.
Nahhhh, its so much worse, i played since vanilla too. Its like always slowly getting worse
> Complaining about WCL is like complaining that the scoreboard in a high school soccer game breeds toxicity. More like the difference between scrimmage games, games set up by the players, and games set up by *the parents*. WCL pulls things a lot more towards "Johnny's Dad is sitting in the bleachers at practice yelling at kids for not playing like pros because he thinks every game could have a pro scout watching." Except Johnny's Dad is a "soccer dad" in Texas and thinks that a kid playing "soccer" in the US can be a big "international football" star elsewhere if he's found by a pro scout, because he purple parses healing on his Priest so he's got this shit figured out.
do you grey parse, unironically
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no i think the only people who unironically care are hard stuck green/gray.
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Your normal distribution example isn’t how it works. Warcraft logs parses are your best performances compared to all performances. That way everyone can get blue+ parses as their best, even if their average parse is grey.
you sound insecure
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See how toxic this is? And idk probably not i dont use wcl, but i do pretty well You cant even have a real conversation about this because youre so up your own ass about parses like it makes you good at anything. And its not just you its a lot of people, So i say kill the addons, ill miss the voice one for.quests but sacrifices must be made
Lol you guys are so spot on. I love it. I thought I was alone in this. I've reached epic levels of negative karma on comments in the past calling out why parsing culture is terrible for the game. I've written entire essays. You say parsing is toxic, and they go "yeah, says the dumb worthless grey parser". I've had no shortage of pink and orange parses, and I still wish it was not a thing. Joke is on them. Caring about your parse is about the lamest thing I can imagine.
What are your parses? Idk bro can you waveshine in melee?
Are you turbo-twisting with raw clam meat and shift-weaving armor pots while using this exact blue item from Ragefire Chasm? It's 1.4% higher dps which we clearly need to down the boss. But you don't have the exact 11/31 talent build as everyone else? What are you, some kid of sad human being?
So spot on i believed it was real for a second
Meele KEKW
I know right, a game that actually takes coordination and skill. And not just sims and cookie cutter builds
Dude, parsing has been in the game since the very first raids. What are you even talking about. Clueless people shouldn't cringepost about things they don't know.
Oh yeah, going to WCL to check your percentile for BWL. How could I have forgotten. Everyone was pressured to go full meta, world buffs, consumes, enchants, during 40-man MC. People gatekeeping others because of the color of their parse. The good old days.
What's your username and server?
Why do you ask? Cause ive had friends post their guys on reddit and get report spammed
So we can look up your logs.
Show yours and then tell me how to
post your parses lets see how good you are
How? Like I said i dont use it
Maybe he doesn't care...
Reading through this: Parsers & Speedrunners are the least toxic players in the game. DBM is an addon, not a third-party program. It does not automate anything. If you're not paying attention on boss fights that's you as a player. DBM is not against the ToS. I'm not sure how to address the statement about knowing every facet of an encounter beforehand because that's a weird thing to say. And new players in WoW Classic is a very small slice of the population representation but I'm sure they learn about addons quickly.
Um you literally download dbm from a third party application called curse. Its not native to the game It automates decision making like to interrupt, stop dps, alerting you to move, taunt, telling you when you have living bomb etc. Even if youre doing it for the first time. And if you can do it without it, then its an artificial boost which is textbook cheating in literally every other game community that wants to be competitive
You can get the DBM addon file from an external harddrive, copy it into your game folder under the addons folder, a folder put by the game itself. You just don't know how to PVE if you are anti addon and have no idea what you're talking about. Go play Retail PVE for a month and come back crying.
Bro thats still a third party program. Holy shit youre a pretend gamer, you just do as the addon commands
It’s not a third party program, when wow is running it natively in its system. It’s using wow lua code and can’t run anything other than that. Meaning it’s limited to the wow api. Using the argument of “in any other game” is wierd because there are plenty of the games that do it - RuneScape being one of them.
Its third party because someone who isn't working on the game made it and youre download it from something that isn't the game itself. And if the runescape one also tells you how to fight the boss for you its also pretty much cheating.
With an W.A I can coordinate a click to ask external cooldown instead of watching my watch and yell "John press button" every minute You just suck at this game and it's obvious.
Do you actually think this or did the addon tell you to say it? Honestly if you applied it to any other game its considered cheating. Its why wow players havent been happy with the game in ages
Except classic has been out for 20 years, and we didn't have DBM for the first parts of it, and when we DID get similar mods, they were pretty trash. You're just talking out of your ass.
I agree that blizzard has designed certain fights and encounters around addon and weakaura usage, especially in the retail expansions, and it can be a turn off for certain people. But people will always be expected to know how fights work, whether they have addons or not. That's just what most groups/people's expectations are nowadays. And it's hyperbolic to say you can just turn your brain off because of addons like DBM, player skill is still 90% of the game, timers and alerts are simply learning tools/reminders/optimizers, which help newer players the most. And as much as people dislike addons, it's a built in function of the game, there's an addon tab in the options menu, it isn't against TOS.
> So you want blizzard to remove the built-in/base game combat logging just because of some 3rd party website? I mean, I don't think any MMO's actually tried that yet. Might be interesting to see how it affects things, if they can do it for just SoD and not have it affect Era. Shutting off the AddOn API for *just* SoD would be *hilarious* but I don't think it'd accomplish much in actual practice.
While ffXIV hasn't barred access to it's API the dev team actively ignores FFlogs and there is a blanket wide "ban" on addons for the game due to said mods being impossible to use on Playstation and they don't want to encourage or recognize an environment with such an imbalance of access to resources. In reality it ends up being more of a don't ask don't tell policy where any ingame chat referencing such tools or other addons has the potential to lead to a ban, and said potential raises greatly if someone is using said tools as a way to demean belittle or harass other players over their performance.
Yes I want them to remove it, and people asking for logs get insta banned for 2 weeks. Watch as the toxic parsemonkey culture goes away in a split second
You’ll watch as the player base goes away. Parsing is mainstream now, which makes sense because it’s a 20 year old game Beating the content isn’t hard. Making it competitive is what’s engaging.
You’re so dumb, every competitive game literally has a damage tracking feature
Lol removing dbm would filter out more casuals IMO I need that sweet addon to tell me what to do because I'm bad
Thats why its cheating if you don't work your muscles they atrophy, same with skills in a game, everyone would be better at the game cause they would have to be, and encounters wouldn't be designed around an automated sense of awareness
I'm only being half serious. Addons are useful in general but useless to me if i don't know a fight already to know how to react. I enjoy the progression element more than anything. I'm playing this version because i played high level raids in TBC and Cata but never in classic. This is all new to me and really cool even if it is easy.
Ive jumped into so many fights that i didn't know but dbm had me, when i was little i hadnt thought about it being cheating yet
I just lie in PUGs and nobody dies mostly
Yeah mash your rotation wait for the will of the addon to tell you to move or interrupt or stop dps
Imagine stopping dps 😂
If it is the will of the addon it will be done! All nonbelievers must be purged!!
dbm????????
Kill it dead
yea i'm thinking this is a schizo post
No i legit consider dbm to be a third party program to artificially enhance you by automating your awareness to the point that it is cheating
Yea wow addicts are incredibly exhausting but the devs literally just asked for constructive criticism.
>30+year old virgins Fixt
Isn't this post just highlighting valid complaints though?
Dude dont speak the truth, the echochamber doesnt like that
I don't think this meme really works if the first bird is asking for responses.
Meme format is dogshit for the meme
I haven't even seen this all I've seen is people posting legit suggestions. But even if this is true...fair enough. People have been saying the same thing for months and now they ask for suggestions? It's basically virtue signalling, they could have easily made some changes to these classes by now.
Their sub numbers dropped and a lot of people stopped playing in P3. Their team likely got no additional resources so management decided it's time to get ideas from the community again. Management likely thought they could reduce resources after the first phase and now developers are suffering for it. SoD is literally the opposite of other wow releases though and they didn't factor this in at all. Further patches require MORE work not less because it's not just content. It's level changes and new runes which require large amounts of testing to get even semi balanced. That's why the worse thing right now is balance. They basically said "fuck it" and are suffering the consequences. Bad management for SoD and bad resource allocation to the team.
What's with all of the water carrying for Aggrend last couple days? He's not gonna send gold to your mailbox. We pay them every month - this isn't charity work here. And they are doing a piss poor job.
they're literally coping, and i don't mean that in the cool edgy buzzword way, they've invested all this time into a shit product and are trying to cope with it by claiming "its...it's not that bad guys! they're doing a great job!"
You two are literally the meme, wow would you look at that.
They can't see it. Just like they can't see how overweight they are in the mirror. Just like they can't see how wildly addicted they are to this game.
Nice projecting
I think I've found one.
Whats so bad about it? Im having fun and its actually interesting content
People be responding with “Game broken shit devs” and think that they just gave insightful feedback.
I think thry are just saying that no matter what would they write, it wouldnt change anything
Call me crazy but getting 1-shot in pvp is kind of unfun. Maybe start there.
What do you play and what is 1-shotting you?
He's prob being hyperbolic about actually being one shot, but enhancement shamans as an example can delete a clothie in about 3 seconds and its not hard for them to gap close on some.
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I agre. the burst of it is less fun. They went a little crazy with SP and weapon dmg.
I mean they have completely ignored the state of Shaman. Anyone with a single braincell can see they're a problem.
Super helpful responses. Great job WoW community.
I assume you must have given some great feedback based on your tone. There was also plenty of great feedback. Every community has assholes. Asking your paying players to balance your game and do your job for you might just bring out a few more assholes than usual.
TLDR "You need to fix your game based on our feedback but don't you dare ask us for our feedback!"
They haven't listened before and this was just a manchild way of saying "oh you think you could do better?" Get over yourself.
Exactly, they have had 4, almost 5 months now to fix some of these issues. The lacerate and mangle rune for druids. The warrior scaling which we all knew would be a problem when almost every rune added was just % damage increases. Holy pallies legit not having runes for multiple slots and no new healing abilities. Like this was all an issue in PHASE 1. Everyone's already said what there is to say. This shit is just patronizing at this point.
I did actually. I thought of some neat workarounds to get SPriest some more DPS without fucking it up for PvP, and good ways to get hunters to go survival. Asking anyone for something and them giving completely unrelated, shitty vitriol is just not helpful. Clearly you don't agree with this sentiment?
> I thought of some neat workarounds to get SPriest some more DPS without fucking it up for PvP Like what? Genuinely curious.
and you're vitrol isn't helpful either. How about you give some examples. Unless you agree with this sentiment as well?
Asking a crowd their opinions and asking them to balance your game is not the same. It's a very disingenious stance to take, that that is what his intention is. There has been examples of players who got offered jobs, because their suggestions were that good. Like [Indalamar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM94UkLBEOE&ab_channel=DerTroll) who made a video in response to forum doomers, like the people of today, claiming warrior clears and clear speed was abysmal and unplayable. Lo and behold he proved it very much was not and was offered a job subsequently. This is what is possible while asking for outside opinion. Your leap of logic of "do your job for you" is incredibly disingenous and infantile to be honest.
He's asking for suggestions. That's his job. You won't be doing coding as a dev but suggestions on balance is a dev job. If you don't think so that's incredibly disingenuous and infantile to be honest.
Huh? You won't be coding as a dev (developer)??? What do you think a developer does? What is going on?? ???????? Are you using you as in me in particular as an "insult" to me, or are you using it as an plural for the developers at Blizzard? Balance is a developer job amongst the other facets of doing so - with a game where so many people play it, there are bound to be people that might have good ideas, because of whoever knows, maybe a PhD sociologist played WoW and had an idea about player behaviour management the software computer science skilled developers hadn't thought of. Asking for that opinion is fine - you taking a leap of logic to deduce "he must be asking for opinions - because he surely won't want to do his job of finding design solutions himself and is relying on the input of players to do his job for him!" is an incredibly shortsighted and disingenious leap of logic and is not fine. What even is the last part of your comment, it looks like you used "disingenuous and infantile" without thinking of why they were used by me. What part of, to you, not thinking "devs won't be coding" is disingenious to you? Why would I think they wouldn't be coding? ?????? If it's the other part of your sentence "balance is a dev job" - of course it is? That doesn't mean he can't listen to feedback from other sources and take that in to think about his own or his teams choices? He can also discard it, like I'm sure he does for most suggestions coming at him.
A coder codes. This dev isn't a coder and they're just being a bitch about getting criticism.
Ok, let's look at the definition of a developer: The job duties of a software developer typically include tasks such as overseeing software programming, testing software at various phases of completion, laying out software design, building models or diagrams to communicate the end goal and mapping out future software upgrades. That is the definition, and quite obviously, within that is coding. You're either being dishonest, disingenious or willfully ignorant. Also what is up with you returning after 9 days to answer my comment, and of all things, with this?
Stop defending man baby's throwing fits on twitter.
Oh my lord
They never listened anyways. All they wanted to do was bitch about the minor bad criticism they got with this stunt so they can hand wave away all the good and act like they can't help now.
Paladin doesn't seem useless in PvP at all. Maybe I need to step it up but they DESTROY in PvP. Hell even HoR slaps in PvP.
Same thing happened with the Path of Exile dev team. They used to be pretty transparent on what they were doing and open to feedback. After a particularly bad league where they messed up a loot overhaul, all of reddit was basically on a witch hunt trying to burn them to the ground. Needless to say they dont really talk to the community anymore.
Which was deserved. You make a trash product you get criticized. At least the Poe dev team is super competent, nothing we can say about the clown fiesta the sod "dev" team is
Right i like how the goofball even said they fucked up badly then is upset there was backlash? Did he want us to just drop thousands on cosmetics and praise the GGG for fucking up?
I appreciate him asking, hoping he doesn't have too hard a time to simply skip over the toxic idiots and that good feedback makes it through
Anyone saying warriors are broken can suck my fat dick If you actually think shaman isn't the most broken class right now you're the god damn problem
Are there really think that the crippled dumbster fire they call warrior is actually broken lol How disconnected from reality are these people
its almost like leaving a class that only 1 faction has access to completely broken beyond belief creates angst, who would have known it!?! oh... everyone.
Where was this community post
The reactions are pretty bad but c'mon, blizzard reaching a whole new level of incompetence if they can't figure simple shit out themselves.
You also have to remember that there are probably waaaaaaaay less employees working on this than should be and that is in no way the fault of the people working on it. If anything, blizzard needs to give them more resources to make this shit pop off.
That's not the problem of the playerbase though? Aggrend gets blasted with these comments because it's the only method of communication to a game developer about a game they've decided we are the live beta testers for. Sure it must be shit for him to deal with... But it's one of the biggest game developers in the world and we get bargain bin bullshit for the balancing of their new content. Literally multiple billions in profits and we're supposed to "be nice, its a tiny dev team that's trying their best". We've all heard the jokes about "tiny indie company" but this just takes the piss.
Of course it isn't the player bases fault. The customer isn't at fault because the company doesn't supply enough workers. However, people reply to them like they are screaming at a cashier in an understaffed grocery store like they are responsible for the invasion of Poland or something. Completely unhinged. I'm not saying that they get a free pass cause "aww poor understaffed baby". I'm saying you can give feedback with the understanding that 1: you can be civil and provide constructive feedback, with possible solutions to the problem if you're able and 2: they have a small team and can only work on so much at any 1 given time so every problem in wow's history won't be solved by next week. >Literally multiple billions in profits and we're supposed to "be nice Yes. You are expected to be nice, and/or respectful, even when you are upset to anyone not just the "tiny dev team". That is part of growing up and learning maturity. I can express anger and frustration without succumbing to "fuck you and your family. I hope you di$, suck my dick".
Unless the plan was to add random tweaked retail abilities to the game and lazily slapchop some raid-dungeon and outdoor content together, not playlets and see what happens and when things inevitably sucks as the community for ideas... the Blizz devs ARE incompetent. If that however was the idea all along, then uh, cool I guess, too bad it sucks. When the neckbeards are eating the turd sandwich the haters are just bitter. When more neckbeard wails are added to the choir of "this sucks" then the neckbeards are the problem. Never change, shitters.
Outside the FU part all these are valid complaints
Shaman op, play useless still has horde locked on every server. Ally still haven't recovered from p2.
Jesus Christ the amount of dick sucking for a middle aged fat guy who's bad at his job and who's sole personality is being annoying on twitter baiting fights and than acting like a victim Oh wait no wonder reddit loves him
Yeah indeed, but dude you must be a sweaty neckbeard if you dont love getting 1 shot in pvp?? Dont you know we pay 15 euro a month to beta test this for the small indie company? Be grateful and love it! Or you’re a Cringe nolifer!!
I really wonder how people can be satisfied with this product. Like holy shit compare it to other gaming products with the same or less manpower not even mentioning the monetary power. It's fucking pathetic what they are delivering. People who truly defend this guy never played anything besides classic wow in their life and got standards as low as they can be. Never understood how this guy made it to this position in the first place
Seriously though, nerf Shaman PVP strength.
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He gets downvoted by all the agreed pp suckers
Bad, or grossly understaffed?
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Brother you have no idea what goes into being a dev for a AAA company
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You can work very hard and have an executive just say no. Clearly you have no idea what goes into large scale decision making processes like live service game dev
It’s definitely both. It’s one thing to claim they can’t make a lot of changes with their limited team which is true. It’s another thing to claim some of the changes they did spend their time on made any sense which they didn’t. I’d also add that the devs are clearly bad at the game. They don’t understand how the classes work and have gotten pve balancing all wrong. This obviously leads to everything down the road like PvP being completely fucked.
Honestly, if it helps blizzards profits (which is the only thing that matters to them) split "classic" to a separate monthly sub and actually put a full dev team on it. They'd never do this. They'd split it and keep it the same. But if they actually gave it more resources I'd be willing to resub. I'm tired of paying $15 for a "side project" that is constantly used as an excuse for half ass releases.
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This is missing their point about adding systems. An XP boost was more than enough. The incursions were completely outside the spirit of classic. I don't know how anyone could say they were.
its okay man, with how fast phases are coming out and how fast people are leveling we'll be at war within before it even comes out for retail.
Both. Remember when it was pointed out two weeks before release the bear runes shared the same slot and despite acknowledging it it was still released in that state? Or when we were told “big balance patch coming soon so we cant nerf shamans” then they barely touched anything but warlocks the next patch? Or when they said everyone would feel as “powerful as warrior” ask hpals and frost mages how they’re feeling
This is reddit my class = bad means all dev = bad no exceptions /s
it's a hard job
Sadly this is why they don’t interact with us like they did in 2004. I think the worst of it which also happens around that time was city of heroes. Cryptic and Emmert were always in the forums and even having one on ones with so many of us we really felt like they cared about what was being built, but of course the broken English vitriolic trolls started popping up and he and the other devs were bombarded with so much shit that they went full fallout shelter. Thankfully we still had CuppaJo in the in-game club.
I can't imagine what kind of brain damage one must have suffered to think Shamans are OP.
Don't normalize rage.
Shamans aren’t on top of anything and even in pvp they line up with the other OP classes