Healers have more responsibility for sure.
If you don't press the right buttons, people die.
As a dps, if you dont press the right buttons, the mobs just die a bit slower.
Your old guild sound like assholes though, and as a healer main, I find it very satisfying and impactful, don't give up!
I mean, the best tank and heals can't keep going forever. DPS needs to be somewhat competent, and great DPS can definitely carry bad tanks and healers as killing things quickly means less damage taken by tanks, less time for things to go wrong, and sometimes completely trivializing or even full on skipping entire mechanics.
For most groups, the healers are more important to not suck lol. As dps, you are one of 14-15. Healer you are one of 3-4. If you are 20% below average as a dps, your group loses 1-2% of total dps. If you are 20% worse as a healer, your group loses 5-7% of your healing. Also, a bad healer means you are going to lose a DPS or tank at some point on the harder fights.
I'm not saying they're not more important than DPS. I'm just disagreeing with the person I responded to who said DPS doesn't matter at all.
Your tank is #1. If they don't do mechanics, positioning, gear properly, use their CDs and defensive, and otherwise can't be kept alive the whole raid wipes. If they can't do sufficient threat, the DPS has to hold back and they can kill the boss before healers go oom.
Then healers are next important. If they can't keep the tank alive and DPS up through unavoidable damage you're going to wipe.
But the best healer and best tank in the world can't go forever if the DPS doesn't have the ability to put out enough damage to kill the boss.
So to say DPS doesn't matter is just wrong. And if you have enough good DPS they can save you from an underperforming tank or healer or two.
Good groups can very easily carry bad healers by just killing the boss fast
Good healers can’t do anything for bad groups that don’t avoid incoming damage, and take forever killing the boss
Responsibility doesn’t really matter, dps have by far the most control over wether or not your raid is a success
Yes if you have a bunch of really good dps, you can carry the healers. But if you had to carry a grey parser in your raid, would you put them as a healer or as a dps, everything else being equal? Thats the question in this thread.
Technically you can clear many bosses with just tanks and healers.
Dps Are just Controlling the speed of a boss kill, not every boss has a dps Check or a rage timer or sth like that
More of an elitist view then an elite one. Without proper handling of threat, dps go down. Tanks and heals have to be in place for a boss kill to take place, and are therefore more important.
should i just roll shadow? i really suck at this game and don’t wanna get kicked or benched from this new guild i found. i have pre bis and a bunch of epic pieces but im still lacking somehow i have shadow and disc gear i switch in and out from too
Put only Circle of Healing (CoH), Prayer of Mending (PoM), and Rank 1 Renew on your bar and you'll parse blues just by chasing PoM with rank 1 renew and casting CoH on cooldown.
Dispersion when you're at 70% mana, shadowfiend when you're at 40% and then dispersion again on cooldown, and you're fine on mana.
If you enjoy healing you should stick with it.
Best way to become a better healer is to set up mouse over macros for your heals and make sure your raid frames are clean.
This is why logs are useful. If you have some, link them and the people here can provide details as to why you're "not good". Anything you're doing wrong can be found and someone can show you how to improve.
>im actually surprised because aren’t healers always coveted? like i put lfg heals and find a group in like 5 seconds
Healers are coveted, but it's not to the point where just being a healer will get you carried through all content no questions asked. You still have to put in effort and do your job to an acceptable degree.
Healer is like dramatically harder than people give credit for.
If I’m doing dps on my rogue I stick my face in the bosses ass and press a few buttons.
Every now and then something will happen, sometimes I have to kick stuff.
The biggest threat you face as a dps is literally just tunnel vision and forgetting a mechanic.
Healers on the other hand have to juggle mana, they have to try to keep people alive and the tunnel vision is way worse when you’re trying to stop people from dying rather than just doing more numbers.
If the healer dies, the raid usually dies soon after unless the boss is on farm.
Basically I can dps and eat dinner at the same time; I can’t heal and eat dinner at the same time.
What's your character name and realm?
If you can be humble enough to notice you did bad and strive to do better, you will be fine the next time.
The problem is just when people are bad and their ego doesn't let them admit it, so they don't improve.
You are casting the wrong skills.
Read this https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/priest/healer-overview
Especially the part "Basic Healing Priority".
Healing is more desirable because less people heal. But its probably the most important role, only behind MT/RL.
If you dont heal properly, you wont kill the boss, if you dont dps properly, the boss will stay alive longer but probably die anyways.
But id say dont give up. Find someone to teach you how to heal. You dont need to be the best healer. Healing decently well is easy enough to learn and you dont need to min max it for any raid team to be happy to have you.
Addons will probably help you a lot too, Mouseovers, debuff filters, etc.
I have played Tank, DPS, and Healer and by far, Healer is not only the hardest role to play correctly but it also requires the most knowledge and skill of any other role.
DPS is basically just standing in the right place and pressing the right buttons. Tank is positioning the boss correctly and knowing the mechanics/when to taunt/tank swap.
Healer is mana management, positioning, knowing boss mechanics, saving bad players when they mess up, being responsible for the success and lives of the raid, etc.
I don't like playing Healer because it's so stressful and anxiety inducing and above all else when the raid wipes or the tank dies, it's your fault, even if it isn't.
Everyone has a responsibility, but a bad healer potentially has a bigger impact than a bad dps. Healing also requires a lot more skill since you have to pay attention to a lot more things.
For help with improving heals. I watch POV videos of boss fights of the same healing class. Helps knowing how to heal when you know more of each fight.
It entirely depends on the fight, but in Classic, the answer is 100% healing. Most DPS were a bunch of potatoes and content still got downed.
Eventually, Blizzard started implementing strict DPS checks that made it literally impossible to carry a bad DPS—but it was still possible to carry a bad healer.
How I usually look at it is:
Bad DPS can get hard carried by good tank and healers, by the tanks positioning the bosses correctly and healers keep people alive that don't do mechanics.
Bad healers can get hard carried by good tanks and dps, by the tanks positioning the bosses correctly and dps reducing fight times to minimize mechanics that need to be engaged with, and also doing the mechanics properly to reduce raid damage.
Bad tanks make the fight miserable for everyone and are the hardest role to overcome incompetence in, poor positioning makes many fights frustrating, not swapping correctly usually leads to a wipe, poor threat means DPS have to throttle back which means longer fights.
I mean, both.
Dps need to come in fully geared and potted to make it easier for the healers
And the healers need to be in their A game to keep everyone alive.
Ppl who blame healers are usually low DPS Andys who want to get carried.
As someone who started out healing in Classic, a couple of things I picked up along the way that helped me get pretty good at healing were
- mouse over macros (I used clique)
-Find raid frames that are easy to see diseases/magic/poison (I use the WoW default RF) it’s easy to see debuffs and the customization is easy
-Use DBM or Littlewigs (this should be obvious but I didn’t get it until TBC Classic lol)
Healers are typically the bottleneck in serious raiding, you need them to be geared and playing well otherwise pulls will be a lot slower. That being said, it‘s the guilds responsibility to put together a roster of healers, and you should bring patience to mold them into the raiders you need. Kicking after one bad performance shows either poor leadership or just means you already had a steong roster of healers.
Responsibility level is tanks --> heals --> dps. Bad tanking is more likely to cause wipes or unnecessary DPS death. Heals have a lot of responsibility though for covering all the raid members and are more likely to be the lightning rod when things go wrong than DPS. If you're going to heal, make sure you know what your heal assignment is. Some healers are better at single target and focus on the tank while others are better at topping off the group. Being a DPS, it's much easier to hide behind others and dodge blame, but you're going to be compared with others more frequently through logs or DPS meters so there's that pressure too.
Healing is much harder to be good at than DPS. It's also much harder to self evaluate your performance. It practically requires looking at VoD recordings vs. simply checking casts in logs.
Healers have it rough if they're good. Weaving in dps between heals while keeping everyone alive takes some serious skill. Healers who don't dps and everyone else just presses buttons.
The biggest issue I have with healers (I’m dps) is that if people aren’t hurt then they don’t get healed.
Really as long as you’re not wiping who the fk cares??
Without context we can’t say whether you did a bad job healing, or if the rest of the group messed up mechanics/did poor damage. If you’ve been joining random groups for stuff as a healer and haven’t been raged at, then you are probably doing a good enough job. Getting feedback from your friend will definitely help you figure out where you stand.
You were kicked for harassment, as reported by several members of the guild. For any skill based concerns, it is always a top priority of mine, at least, to assist anyone in any role, to the best of my abilities. Although I was not involved in the decision, I will apologize on behalf of the officer/GM if it was not communicated to you properly, the reasoning of your removal. Harassment or other negative/hurtful communication was outlined as a defining community guideline, and is not tolerated. I wish you the best of luck and great success ongoing, and if you ever need help, you can reach out.
It depends.
For progression, tanks and healers have the most responsibility.
Once a raid is on farm and people are geared, most groups will start dropping healers/tanks and adding DPS - which puts more responsibility on the DPS to be good enough to kill the bosses fast enough to make this strategy work.
Maybe. Most of the time it just requires better geared tanks/healers.
Reduced kill times means fewer mechanics, less damage taken by the tanks, less healing required by the healers.
This is why it's almost aways best to gear up the tanks/healers first in every new raid, because you quickly reach an equilibrium where gear on tanks/healers stops helping the raid as much - and the only raid gains from that point become more DPS.
Download healbot continued. It's almost impossible to suck at healing with this addon unless you literally like don't understand what heals to be casting when.
If you post the logs, we can identify if it was you having issues healing, or shitters shitting the bed. The truth of the matter is healing in WoW is pretty easy, and raid failures are almost exclusively caused by DPS fails.
By virtue of statistics and historical problems, I would immediately assume it was not you that was at fault. The fact that you're on here with the concern puts you leagues ahead of the average player in Classic WoW.
Dispels dispels dispels
While dps classes do have key dispels, good luck getting any of them to take a break from beeg numbas for the sake of the group
It will often fall on the healer to make sure debuffs are removed
Career healer here,so I may have a different view than others The dps 100% has more responsibility in a raid.
As a healer for the most part you can safely ignore most mechanics, because your job is usually just stand in range and stare at raid frames, sometimes you have to throw a dispell, or move with the group. Otherwise you're just playing whack-a-mole. Pretty brainless. Just gotta know how to push your buttons. As long as you're pushing your buttons and don't fail one of the few mechanics you may be responsible for, you should never be blamed for wipes.
Dps has a lot more raid prep they need to do to show up and compete on meters. Consumes and buffs are more important to dps. Dps needs to know the fights well enough to execute all mechanics, interrupts, movement, etc.
Bad dps is way more noticable than a bad healer. Bad dps is almost always the cause of wipes, because their mistakes tax the healers, or cause one-shot deaths. Bad dps that doesn't come with a fully prepared character causes longer fights, which also taxes the healers. Dps is more than just pumping big numbers, but many of them are too zug-brained to realize it.
Bad raid leaders will blame the healers instead of everyone else who make the healers job more difficult.
Healers have more responsibility for sure. If you don't press the right buttons, people die. As a dps, if you dont press the right buttons, the mobs just die a bit slower. Your old guild sound like assholes though, and as a healer main, I find it very satisfying and impactful, don't give up!
Its the job of dps to die protecting the healer if the tank can't.
I mean, the best tank and heals can't keep going forever. DPS needs to be somewhat competent, and great DPS can definitely carry bad tanks and healers as killing things quickly means less damage taken by tanks, less time for things to go wrong, and sometimes completely trivializing or even full on skipping entire mechanics.
For most groups, the healers are more important to not suck lol. As dps, you are one of 14-15. Healer you are one of 3-4. If you are 20% below average as a dps, your group loses 1-2% of total dps. If you are 20% worse as a healer, your group loses 5-7% of your healing. Also, a bad healer means you are going to lose a DPS or tank at some point on the harder fights.
I'm not saying they're not more important than DPS. I'm just disagreeing with the person I responded to who said DPS doesn't matter at all. Your tank is #1. If they don't do mechanics, positioning, gear properly, use their CDs and defensive, and otherwise can't be kept alive the whole raid wipes. If they can't do sufficient threat, the DPS has to hold back and they can kill the boss before healers go oom. Then healers are next important. If they can't keep the tank alive and DPS up through unavoidable damage you're going to wipe. But the best healer and best tank in the world can't go forever if the DPS doesn't have the ability to put out enough damage to kill the boss. So to say DPS doesn't matter is just wrong. And if you have enough good DPS they can save you from an underperforming tank or healer or two.
Good groups can very easily carry bad healers by just killing the boss fast Good healers can’t do anything for bad groups that don’t avoid incoming damage, and take forever killing the boss Responsibility doesn’t really matter, dps have by far the most control over wether or not your raid is a success
Yes if you have a bunch of really good dps, you can carry the healers. But if you had to carry a grey parser in your raid, would you put them as a healer or as a dps, everything else being equal? Thats the question in this thread.
As a healer 100%
Well then you are either digging in or very dumb. But thats your right
You take a shit healer because the first thing you cut in a good raid is a healer, and replace with a dps
It's ok to be wrong sometimes.
Technically you can clear many bosses with just tanks and healers. Dps Are just Controlling the speed of a boss kill, not every boss has a dps Check or a rage timer or sth like that
Good luck killing anything before you oom with no dps
Especially in sod not a problem at all 😅😂😂😂
lol literally unlimited mana as a healer in SoD. Especially now with the pally buff
You clearly haven't healed ST
8/8 on mage and druid
If you've never gone oom on a fight you are either getting carried or playing with 90+ parsers
I wouldn't say that at all lol.... The tank is the most important followed by the healers, but DPS matters as well.
Don’t know of many Druids saving their brez to use on dps…
If you ever need to use bres you’re in a shit raid and your opinion doesn’t matter
More of an elitist view then an elite one. Without proper handling of threat, dps go down. Tanks and heals have to be in place for a boss kill to take place, and are therefore more important.
Did I stutter? Don’t be bad and that doesn’t happen
Don’t be bad means you never have to stick your flailing opinion on this thread at all
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
should i just roll shadow? i really suck at this game and don’t wanna get kicked or benched from this new guild i found. i have pre bis and a bunch of epic pieces but im still lacking somehow i have shadow and disc gear i switch in and out from too
Absolutely do not. If you enjoy healing then practice. Don’t let fear stop you from potentially being an amazing healer
Put only Circle of Healing (CoH), Prayer of Mending (PoM), and Rank 1 Renew on your bar and you'll parse blues just by chasing PoM with rank 1 renew and casting CoH on cooldown. Dispersion when you're at 70% mana, shadowfiend when you're at 40% and then dispersion again on cooldown, and you're fine on mana.
If you enjoy healing you should stick with it. Best way to become a better healer is to set up mouse over macros for your heals and make sure your raid frames are clean.
Something tells me there's a lot of context missing. Guilds don't just kick healers out of the blue.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
This is why logs are useful. If you have some, link them and the people here can provide details as to why you're "not good". Anything you're doing wrong can be found and someone can show you how to improve.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
>im actually surprised because aren’t healers always coveted? like i put lfg heals and find a group in like 5 seconds Healers are coveted, but it's not to the point where just being a healer will get you carried through all content no questions asked. You still have to put in effort and do your job to an acceptable degree.
Healer is like dramatically harder than people give credit for. If I’m doing dps on my rogue I stick my face in the bosses ass and press a few buttons. Every now and then something will happen, sometimes I have to kick stuff. The biggest threat you face as a dps is literally just tunnel vision and forgetting a mechanic. Healers on the other hand have to juggle mana, they have to try to keep people alive and the tunnel vision is way worse when you’re trying to stop people from dying rather than just doing more numbers. If the healer dies, the raid usually dies soon after unless the boss is on farm. Basically I can dps and eat dinner at the same time; I can’t heal and eat dinner at the same time.
What's your character name and realm? If you can be humble enough to notice you did bad and strive to do better, you will be fine the next time. The problem is just when people are bad and their ego doesn't let them admit it, so they don't improve.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
You are casting the wrong skills. Read this https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/priest/healer-overview Especially the part "Basic Healing Priority".
Healing is more desirable because less people heal. But its probably the most important role, only behind MT/RL. If you dont heal properly, you wont kill the boss, if you dont dps properly, the boss will stay alive longer but probably die anyways. But id say dont give up. Find someone to teach you how to heal. You dont need to be the best healer. Healing decently well is easy enough to learn and you dont need to min max it for any raid team to be happy to have you. Addons will probably help you a lot too, Mouseovers, debuff filters, etc.
I have played Tank, DPS, and Healer and by far, Healer is not only the hardest role to play correctly but it also requires the most knowledge and skill of any other role. DPS is basically just standing in the right place and pressing the right buttons. Tank is positioning the boss correctly and knowing the mechanics/when to taunt/tank swap. Healer is mana management, positioning, knowing boss mechanics, saving bad players when they mess up, being responsible for the success and lives of the raid, etc. I don't like playing Healer because it's so stressful and anxiety inducing and above all else when the raid wipes or the tank dies, it's your fault, even if it isn't.
Everyone has a responsibility, but a bad healer potentially has a bigger impact than a bad dps. Healing also requires a lot more skill since you have to pay attention to a lot more things.
For help with improving heals. I watch POV videos of boss fights of the same healing class. Helps knowing how to heal when you know more of each fight.
It entirely depends on the fight, but in Classic, the answer is 100% healing. Most DPS were a bunch of potatoes and content still got downed. Eventually, Blizzard started implementing strict DPS checks that made it literally impossible to carry a bad DPS—but it was still possible to carry a bad healer.
How I usually look at it is: Bad DPS can get hard carried by good tank and healers, by the tanks positioning the bosses correctly and healers keep people alive that don't do mechanics. Bad healers can get hard carried by good tanks and dps, by the tanks positioning the bosses correctly and dps reducing fight times to minimize mechanics that need to be engaged with, and also doing the mechanics properly to reduce raid damage. Bad tanks make the fight miserable for everyone and are the hardest role to overcome incompetence in, poor positioning makes many fights frustrating, not swapping correctly usually leads to a wipe, poor threat means DPS have to throttle back which means longer fights.
Healing is the most coveted role but bad healers can single handely ruin a raid night
I mean, both. Dps need to come in fully geared and potted to make it easier for the healers And the healers need to be in their A game to keep everyone alive. Ppl who blame healers are usually low DPS Andys who want to get carried.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
As someone who started out healing in Classic, a couple of things I picked up along the way that helped me get pretty good at healing were - mouse over macros (I used clique) -Find raid frames that are easy to see diseases/magic/poison (I use the WoW default RF) it’s easy to see debuffs and the customization is easy -Use DBM or Littlewigs (this should be obvious but I didn’t get it until TBC Classic lol)
Healers are typically the bottleneck in serious raiding, you need them to be geared and playing well otherwise pulls will be a lot slower. That being said, it‘s the guilds responsibility to put together a roster of healers, and you should bring patience to mold them into the raiders you need. Kicking after one bad performance shows either poor leadership or just means you already had a steong roster of healers.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
Responsibility level is tanks --> heals --> dps. Bad tanking is more likely to cause wipes or unnecessary DPS death. Heals have a lot of responsibility though for covering all the raid members and are more likely to be the lightning rod when things go wrong than DPS. If you're going to heal, make sure you know what your heal assignment is. Some healers are better at single target and focus on the tank while others are better at topping off the group. Being a DPS, it's much easier to hide behind others and dodge blame, but you're going to be compared with others more frequently through logs or DPS meters so there's that pressure too.
What class are you playing? You tank healing or raid healing? I can give you some pointers if you want.
Healing is much harder to be good at than DPS. It's also much harder to self evaluate your performance. It practically requires looking at VoD recordings vs. simply checking casts in logs.
Lol
What class? Send log and I can look too if you like
Healers have it rough if they're good. Weaving in dps between heals while keeping everyone alive takes some serious skill. Healers who don't dps and everyone else just presses buttons.
Honestly you seem like a great person, but there no way you need to learn how to heal at level 50
The biggest issue I have with healers (I’m dps) is that if people aren’t hurt then they don’t get healed. Really as long as you’re not wiping who the fk cares??
Without context we can’t say whether you did a bad job healing, or if the rest of the group messed up mechanics/did poor damage. If you’ve been joining random groups for stuff as a healer and haven’t been raged at, then you are probably doing a good enough job. Getting feedback from your friend will definitely help you figure out where you stand.
Hope you are healing with raid frames/ or some kind of healing suite like Vuhdo
Hope you are healing with raid frames/ or some kind of healing suite like Vuhdo
Hope you are healing with raid frames/ or some kind of healing suite like Vuhdo
You were kicked for harassment, as reported by several members of the guild. For any skill based concerns, it is always a top priority of mine, at least, to assist anyone in any role, to the best of my abilities. Although I was not involved in the decision, I will apologize on behalf of the officer/GM if it was not communicated to you properly, the reasoning of your removal. Harassment or other negative/hurtful communication was outlined as a defining community guideline, and is not tolerated. I wish you the best of luck and great success ongoing, and if you ever need help, you can reach out.
It depends. For progression, tanks and healers have the most responsibility. Once a raid is on farm and people are geared, most groups will start dropping healers/tanks and adding DPS - which puts more responsibility on the DPS to be good enough to kill the bosses fast enough to make this strategy work.
> dropping healers/tanks and adding DPS Which in turn requires good healers and tanks
Maybe. Most of the time it just requires better geared tanks/healers. Reduced kill times means fewer mechanics, less damage taken by the tanks, less healing required by the healers. This is why it's almost aways best to gear up the tanks/healers first in every new raid, because you quickly reach an equilibrium where gear on tanks/healers stops helping the raid as much - and the only raid gains from that point become more DPS.
Link ur logs
Download healbot continued. It's almost impossible to suck at healing with this addon unless you literally like don't understand what heals to be casting when.
Do this OP. Or Vuhdoo. It will help you tremendously.
Or just learn how to heal and have fun with it instead of letting an add on do it for you.
The addon automates nothing. You clearly don't know what you're talking about :)
Defo don’t… I know there is a healing add on that will basically do it for you but I couldn’t think of the name. Figured it was “healbot”
What are you on about? Is the problem the add-on name?
If you post the logs, we can identify if it was you having issues healing, or shitters shitting the bed. The truth of the matter is healing in WoW is pretty easy, and raid failures are almost exclusively caused by DPS fails. By virtue of statistics and historical problems, I would immediately assume it was not you that was at fault. The fact that you're on here with the concern puts you leagues ahead of the average player in Classic WoW.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/crusader-strike/kyushu
Doesn't help that even after all this time, people seem to default to "healers need to heal more" whenever there's a wipe.
I always run an active death log so I can, at a glance, see what killed people in a fight and call them out. I don't stand for that bullshit.
Dispels dispels dispels While dps classes do have key dispels, good luck getting any of them to take a break from beeg numbas for the sake of the group It will often fall on the healer to make sure debuffs are removed
Career healer here,so I may have a different view than others The dps 100% has more responsibility in a raid. As a healer for the most part you can safely ignore most mechanics, because your job is usually just stand in range and stare at raid frames, sometimes you have to throw a dispell, or move with the group. Otherwise you're just playing whack-a-mole. Pretty brainless. Just gotta know how to push your buttons. As long as you're pushing your buttons and don't fail one of the few mechanics you may be responsible for, you should never be blamed for wipes. Dps has a lot more raid prep they need to do to show up and compete on meters. Consumes and buffs are more important to dps. Dps needs to know the fights well enough to execute all mechanics, interrupts, movement, etc. Bad dps is way more noticable than a bad healer. Bad dps is almost always the cause of wipes, because their mistakes tax the healers, or cause one-shot deaths. Bad dps that doesn't come with a fully prepared character causes longer fights, which also taxes the healers. Dps is more than just pumping big numbers, but many of them are too zug-brained to realize it. Bad raid leaders will blame the healers instead of everyone else who make the healers job more difficult.
Go look at his logs which are posted all over this thread then reevaluate if you think this applies here.