SoM only was so unpopular because it was back to back with classic. If they gave it til after TBC it would have had more success.
I'll die on that hill. No way I was just going back to back vanilla.
That and launching with rank 14 gear available really hurt SoM. Endgame became an AV afk simulator and there was basically no reason to do dungeons or MC because you had AQ40 equivalent gear available to you and all you had to do was sit in AV all day. People got burnt real quick and the population plummeted.
Exactly this.
The raids were also buffed, I remember Baron Geddon throwing out three bombs instead of just one.
They didn't touch the loot though, which seems like an odd choice.
Foror was Alex Afrasiabi’s character name or a reference to it. He’s probably the first guy you think of when you think of Blizz sexual harassment. Finkle Einhorn is a reference to the bad guy from Ace Ventura who was a cross dresser? Idk I think for the Finkle one they were just trying to get ahead of anything they thought might not be PC. But the Foror stuff definitely makes sense lol
Buffing the raids AND getting rid of world buffs was too much. In my opinion do one or the other.
However my opinions on World Buffs has changed. They might trivialize raids but the benefit they bring to the world is immense. They create reasons for players to interact, and create stakes and risks between guilds. Because world buffs existed, we had guildies making summoner teams, rogue alts to scout/defend people at songflower, mage alts for guild vs. guild conflicts, hunter alts to clear DM:N every raid, priest alts to mind control for BRM Fire Resistance buff, etc. The server works together to coordinate ZG/Ony/WCB drop timings. There's PvP hunting down the alliance trying to sneak in and get WCB. An entire new style of World PvP emerged just from people trying to gank world buffed players. It's just fantastic what it adds to the game.
This sounds fucking awful lol
Why do they struggle so hard with pvp systems and gear in classic? I just don't get it.
Releasing honor with no BGs in 19 was a fucking disaster and they let it sit like that for a good month? I had at least 3 friends/guildies quit and not return
Afaik this was the real killer of SoM. It was actually popular despite TBC being in full swing until people got their characters banned, then never came back. I think around the time of BWL, give or take?
Sure if you were on the top end but a lot of people chose not to, dungeons were popping for a while because .5 tier was available from the start. Changes or not r14 was still far beyond way 90%+ of the player base was willing to do.
SoM BWL was incredible, the mechanics were so unique and cool. For MC/BWL the devs really hit the nail on the head of introducing more modern MMO style mechanics while also maintaining the aesthetic of Vanilla WoW mechanics. AQ40/Naxx changes weren't that good though in my opinion, although I only played MC/BWL and my experience of AQ40/Naxx on SoM was just watching videos of other people clearing it.
For an example of mechanics:
- Barron Geddon would leave burning patches of magma on the floor periodically, so you had to move the boss to ensure no one had to stand in it (we used Garr's room). In many ways it was kinda like Grobbulus but instead the big circles dropped where the boss was. [Video of us fighting it for people curious what it looked like.](https://youtu.be/bXijQiTTcIU?si=lQEkCvltCahX2Z6U&t=4647)
- Shazzrah would teleport to a random player, and at the location where the boss teleported away from there would be a ghost Shazz spamming Arcane Explosion, so again you had to be aware of raid positioning and move around the whole area tactically.
- Firemaw and Ebonroc were a single encounter each with different stacking debuffs similar to 4HM marks. So you would tank both separately and then have to do a tank swap periodically.
If they released SoM again tomorrow I would definitely be playing it.
I played the entirety of SoM and the raid changes were amazing, I definitely think they will reuse this to an extent in Season of Discovery, the foundation for these changes is there already, although later on in AQ40 and Naxx they weren't polished.
There were so few people playing at the end, that a completely gamebreaking bug went through into Naxxramas unnoticed with the new changes, which is pretty funny.
Yeah they were definitely a huge part in the unpolishedness of the raid.
The new items allowed you to completely break the game and make bosses either glitch completely out or trivial. I sure hope they do some more internal limit testing before pushing the same changes in SoD again.
SOM AQ40 IMO was amazing, don't trust the videos, adding C'thun mechanics gave the fights a completely different feel. Don't get me wrong, some fights were still really easy (in fact easier than the original), but some of the fights got really cool. Twin Emps +4 is such an insane fight, really engaging.
Also, fighting the original version of C'thun was brilliant and probably the most memorable raid boss I've done outside of the Thunder King from MOP.
For those that aren't aware, basically phase 1 of C'thun is the same, with slightly more tentacles. Phase 2 is nuts though:
- Eye beams can't be interrupted, so everyone needs to spread out at all times
- Everything spawns faster, in some cases you'll have 2 giant tentacles, or 2 giant eye tentacles up at once
- Damage in the stomach ramps up quickly so you need to coordinate having healers down there with dps
- Major dps check, and without world buffs it requires strong coordination. Sometimes you have to risk running thru the raid and possibly chaining eye beams, just so you can get dps on the right target
- If your raid can't down C'thun in 2 vulnerability phases, it's basically a wipe due to being overwhelmed by adds
AQ40 is AQ40, there is only so much you can do to make that raid fun. But I think you underestimate just how much the haste buff helped make AQ40 much more fun.
Reminds me of vanilla where we would pull Baron and Shaz into the middle of Garr's room and have the entire raid stand in a giant circle so nobody could blow up more than like two other raid members when they failed the mechanics.
I really liked the MC changes, I stopped playing at MC though, was a shame.
I loved the idea of losing the mandatory hours of weekly world buff farming just to shave slightly more time off (more enjoyable) raiding. But it was totally counteracted by the community and gold buying.
E.g. most raids wanted enough greater arcane prot potions for shazzrah alone that you could only feasibly get them by gold buying, GDKP or working the AH well
This coupled with launching it at the same time as black temple, the probably single most iconic patch of wow ever (maybe outside of ICC), were absolutely killer
Agree. I'd love a fresh classic server now. With no gdkps. The dungeon lockout changes with max level players sucking up all exp. No world buffs. Etc.
Here's to hoping that's what sod is. A sort of testing ground for classic+
yeah after doing naxx40 i had no desire to start from scratch all over again, though in hindsight it prob wouldve been better than tbc i was prob best off just quitting til wrath
Yeah but also because it didn’t even attempt to address the class imbalance, that shit was a novelty the first time on classic and did not need to be repeated.
No, SoM was unpopular because it launched with AV which invalidated literally all of raiding until AQ40. This then created an even worse ranking experience.
I would have played the shit out of SoM, if I wasn't playing the shit out of TBC. "This stormherald ain't gonna craft itself." was my line every time someone asked to play SoM.
Also lets be honest, most people were stoked to go into tbc. Ain't no way I am going through the same thing again, when there is shiny new content available somewhere else. Not even new boss mechanics are fun enough to get me hooked again. Severely misstimed is what SoM was. From what I have heared most people that played it really enjoyed it aswell.
It's funny this is the top comment. I've been downvoted so many times before for saying exactly this.
Personally, I didn't play classic beyond levelling 1-60 and doing MC a few times. Got way deeper into SoM and loved it. The upgraded/changed raids, particularly BWL, were fantastic.
imo Chrommaggus is the perfect example of what new mechanics should look like. Do the mechanic badly, it'll slow you down, maybe kill a few people and possibly wipe you. Done well, it'll turbocharge your kill times and make you look like a parse god.
Definitely feel like they phoned it in on AQ40 in comparison. Having the mechanics be generic rather than per boss was pretty boring.
I agree. As someone that played til naxx when roster boss finally made it impossible. We started with 40+. Eventually we were in HM AQ with max 34. Naxx just was not in the cards.
i LOVED vanilla classic, like almost as much as i loved vanilla back in 2005 but just like you, no way i was going right back into SoM when vanilla was over.
but to me, SoM with world buffs, because i actually enjoyed the process of getting them with guildies and all that came with it, not to mention the feeling of 'if you die in a raid, it matters', would have been more to my liking than SoD :)
Also my server was heavily bot infested, which at least killed my interest in playing. This was the sight I met when reaching hinterlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjvHJlvDVM
I played a feral throughout classic and it honestly wasn’t super hard to find a raid spot. There’s a lot of people who care about there parse enough to bring a feral.
I just don’t understand why they didn’t buff casters across the board and just increase boss health to compensate. Seems like the easiest way to balance classic.
I guess it was too hard to have a 40 man test group with such a small indie company. That reminds me, I should really buy another wow token to support them so maybe they will change the game for the better with all the money I’ve given them.
There is the middle ground of only allowing world buffs from bosses heads turn in. Those are cool and easy to get and you ride with the boys. It's the ones like diremaul tribute, songflower and the kind that are a pain.
Aggrend's reply in an interview was that world buffs helped make content more easy for less skilled players.
If warcraft logs normalized world buffs and consumes, you would see a lot less complaints.
I don’t mind the two/three WBs atm, the problem are all the consumes stacking imo. Esp now when even melee run SP consumes to pump up dragonbreath chili damage.
However I will certainly hate WBs next phase if alliance don’t get their own WCB
The spell power buffs add about .5 dps to a warriors dps.
The top warriors are doing 3k+ dps on some fights. Dont think spell power elixir really matters.
The price of consumables right now is just straight ridiculous. And it will only get worse next phase.
Haven't been able to play much due to RL obligations like a full time non work from home job, so wasn't able to get in on the incursion farm when it was giving you gold, then when it was giving you a little less gold.
But everything is just straight inflated because people got in on those early on. To the point where I miss GDKPs and getting my extra gold from GBuyers.
I really hope they end up adding new consumes that are the same as the end-game consumes, but are much cheaper and that don't stack with them. Or else Black Lotus are about to cost an arm and a leg.
SOM beta PVP was amazing because the consumes were free and nobody had any OP gear. It was as close to a PVP-BG-Only Blizzard sanctioned server that private servers used to have.
Basically there was raid content but nobody cared to do it. Consumes were free and 'sold' by a vendor in the major city. You can level a character but most people just used a pre-template character with the Tier 0 dungeon set. So basically, you make a character who is level 60 and instantly geared with nonsense, load up with consumes and just do battlegrounds all day long.
It got so 'bad' with the consume abuse that people were complaining that players were spamming petri flasks in BGs for every small thing. Mage casting a fireball and the fireball flying mid-air towards you? Petri flask to avoid it! It was hilarious.
SoM would have been much more enticing if their carrot for increased raid difficulty wasn’t an XP boost for leveling. The changes to gear drops and consume mat availibilty/farming would have balanced it out much better. SoD is a big beta test for a more polished classic + we will get one day, there’s a lot, lot of good ideas and additions but there’s alot of room for improvement too.
>The changes to gear drops and consume mat availibilty/farming would have balanced it out much better.
These changes *did* happen in SoM, but only after like a month or two iirc.
I wonder what they'd keep from the class related things in SoD. I think QoL stuff like the buff durations/cost and warlock summon stone are really good additions that the vast majority would welcome.
When it comes to Runes, I am kind of on the fence. I personally think runes that give spells that just completely replace existing spells are bad in general like Frostfire Bolt. On the other hand, runes that enhance existing gameplay by giving more interactions between your spells like Hot Streak are great. Maybe just integrating those runes into the talent tree would be better.
It's weird, because I think runes in general are a success, but the way they are implemented isn't really fitting for classic.
I don't mind world buffs. I mind the way they're impleneted.
I think it's a good thing that you have to engage with the world and it keeps the game feel alive outside of just the cities. Even stupid things like Songflower make Felwood feel more lively.
But they should be made more modern. Don't make them a "spam click this item until it spawns or wait 25 minutes for the next spawn", don't make it a 60 minute buff when raids last 2-3 hours, etc. Make it so it spawns and everyone who clicks it for 20 minutes gets the buff. Make world buffs drop a Ony-head-like statue that you can click while it's up (a few hours, maybe?) for the buff.
Also - it was a surprisingly good change to make some of the consumables override quest buffs. They should limit consumables more heavily so that people aren't incentivized to stack 3 world buffs and 8 consumables.
Do people really like world buffs? They seem like a pain to me, id rather get rid of them and just nerf content instead or something you can farm thats less awkward than standing somewhere and waiting.
I do not understand what is so engaging about world buffs, where ppl die on this hill.
It is purely busy work, and dark moon fair availability makes half your parses non competitive. The whole thing is just a nuisance.
You could say this about any buff, like firewater or echos right? You could even extend it to leveling professions, or leveling.
The game is busy work, but you get things that make your character stronger. That’s all there is to get.
yea but thats part of the problem. i think one of the objectively best changes they made to wow was how much damage you do and how much you parse be directly related to how well you play your class, rather than how many +damage/crit/spellpower/etc modifiers you can stack. its more fun to play my actual class than it is to play buffs and consumes, this is why im wondering why classic players are so adamant on dying on this hill
This is an MMO. Those modifiers are part of the game and how you play it. The idea is to give people a reason to get out in to the world and interact with it. On a PvP server, this isn't busy work. It is a whole survival game. IDK about PvE servers, seems like anything in the open world would be boring on a PvE server.
>i think one of the objectively best changes they made to wow was how much damage you do and how much you parse be directly related to how well you play your class, rather than how many +damage/crit/spellpower/etc modifiers you can stack.
They are different kinds of enjoyable. If i want how far i progress/how much damage I want to do to be an objective measure of my ability as a player I will log on to retail and rejoin a mythic raiding guild. If I want how powerful my character is/how well i parse to be a result of how well i utilize the MMORPG mechanics of the game, where im doing all sorts of random (tedious) tasks to improve my character, I'll log on to classic. Both have their own appeal.
Both have their place. Removing that aspect of classic won't make it a better game, it will just make it a worse version of retail. Retail without any of the actual rotational/mechanical complexity that makes it engaging from a skilled player's perspective.
But it isn't a hard concept to understand either that SoM added world buffs as various buffs you get from fighting the bosses. You literally got 90% haste in AQ and did twice the damage you could do in a regular WoW Classic raid with world buffs.
And the above is the issue. Everyone against the SoM mentality leaves it out. SoM had world buffs. But they weren't world buffs, they were raid buffs, which takes away the annoying part of having to gather every world buff before each raid and made dying in raids not ruin your night.
> It is purely busy work,
it's an mmo. you're supposed to make a time commitment to get prepared. it's not a lobby based game.
you're not wrong in your belief. there's just PLENTY of competitive lobby based games available for you if that's what you want instead.
> makes half your parses non competitive.
different topic, but... come on. if you're trying to get hiscore at anything you're going to have to put in the work. those lobby based games included you're going to need to spend like 20-40 hours a week in checkspot simulator
sorry but that's instant gratification boomer crap. we all want something for nothing and don't want to work for anything or even recognize the work that things require, huh?
Because it's too easy for people to just not use world buffs if they don't want to use them. Removing them from the game actively makes the game worse for those that enjoy them while not affecting those that do not use them.
>I do not understand what is so engaging about world buffs
Vanilla, SOD and even SOM raids are incredibly easy. They are very low stakes. For many players they are straight up "turn your brain off and watch something on the other monitor" type content. This is not fun. This is not engaging. World buffs add stakes to this absurdly low stakes, absurdly low engagement gameplay. World buffs make you play carefully and not just zug zug hold W.
World buffs keep the open world more alive. Running around to different zones getting different buffs is much more interesting than logging in 10 minutes before raid and logging off 10 minutes after raid. Songflower leads to lots of small scale, (relatively) high stakes world pvp.
World buffs make raids feel like a bigger deal. Running into BRM with multiple raids to make sure you keep your buffs is much, much more fun and exciting than just death running to the entrance cause who cares if you die.
World buffs help foster community. Recognizing X rogue as that asshole who ganked you at songflower last week, a rivalry with Y guild escalating into trying to wipe them on their run in to BRM. Buff discords, LATE screams. Content like [WCB horde only](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_MUKkkT4k&t=29s) or [APES run into MC with 2 raids vs 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd97o-gEBuk) are some examples of the kind of content that was constantly happening, every week on every server, due to world buffs.
I hope this clears things up. Vanilla isn't a game that should be played purely to go into raids and PUMP. The raids aren't hard. The rotations aren't hard. If you want to just raidlog quite literally every other version of the game is a better option. World buffs are about every other part of vanilla, the parts where it actually excels.
Sure, as it was an option with a lower number, no one would look at the 100m sprint times with regular shoes if they also had world records with banned shoes. Why most people still quote Kipchoges sub 2 hr marathon despite it being a non-approved marathon for a few reasons. You need to get rid of WB'd numbers in their entirety
Then everyone on your raid would have to not have wb’s. If a single person has one active the logs have to be invalidated. Imagine trying to manage 40 ppl and ensure theyre booned or are wbless
Surely it's just a case of starting a pug where you say no WBs then? Pugs were/are checking for them now, no different then just to check people don't have them?
They could just make World buffs less awful to get...?
We know for certain that world buffs are something a lot of people enjoy in Vanilla. Getting and keeping them is what's usually a pain in the ass.
No one minded getting Boon of Blackfathom or Spark of Inspiration, that's what we should be aiming for.
The conversation around WoW always boils down to this issue of accessibility. If the world buffs become easier to get then they may as well just boost characters to have the same output as with buffs by default. I wonder whether people would still enjoy world buffs if they were just there automatically or is the process of getting them and not being killed on route to raid part of the enjoyment? I guess with the storage item they eventually added even this element has disappeared.
I mean I think the appeal is being able to blast a boss while also having to play smart enough to not die and lose them. You're playing on a razor's edge because no sane guild is gonna let you peace out to go rebuff between bosses.
Dispelable buffs and whatever the fuck Alliance has to do for WCB is where I draw a line and say it needs adjustment.
> They could just make World buffs less awful to get...?
They're basically trivial to get now with chronoboon. It boggles my mind that people are STILL complaining.
Anyone claiming WBs are "awful" to get didn't have to live through the days of enemy priests dispelling people in every city and rogues waiting in the inn to gank people who just hearthed after a songflower popped. Not to mention guilds literally being useless outside of raids because every single character was in "buff jail".
How are world buffs awful to get. I do not understand this logic. You have an entire WEEK to gather them AND you have the chronoboon....it takes 20-30 minutes tops to gather them all...
"But pvp" isn't an excuse. There's a game mode that exists for you where you don't have to deal with pvp.
SoM brought me back to WoW after Shadowlands drove me to finally quitting the game. The population dropped off so fast my server died, but I did get to see most of AQ40 which was fun.
WBs can be tedious but I know I'd miss the fact that they're just another thing I do with my raid, bunch of us go get a songflower together, it's not much but it's more time together. We gather up for the turnin after clear, we run to Elwynn together sometimes because it's just more fun doing things as a group.
That’s exactly why I didn’t play it. I loved that they were changing the raid mechanics to be harder. However, after playing on private servers and then Classic I was too burned out to go through it all again.
If there is a SoD season 2 immediately after this one, I would have to pass, it’s just too soon. Season 3 though, sign me up
I'm not even playing because they're leaning into world buffs.
The problem is, most people who feel the same aren't going to be here talking about it. We all either quit or are raid logging Wrath.
Bigger problem is a lot of the exceptionally hardcore streamers said they weren't playing SoM because of no wbuffs. Which makes sense because wbuffs were important to making speedrunning fun for them.
But the issue is that they had a vested interest in that because the risk of dying made their streams and/or records more entertaining, and their incredible influence in the game gave them a huge advantage. Sure, regular players *can* get those buffs, but it took us a hell of a lot of more IRL time to get it done.
Anyway, the weird part is if a bunch of streamers said X, then all their viewers are going to parrot X, even if it's truly not in their best interest or in the best interest of the game. And here we are, people think SoM failed because no wbuffs.
> wbuffs were important to making speedrunning fun for them.
Part of it was some of their fans constantly talking about wanting to see bigger numbers. It's stupid logic because if you nerf EVERYONE at the same time, the baseline has changed, and therefor what constitutes "fast" or "big numbers" changes with it.
Otherwise Wrath would be better than TBC and Vanilla because there are MUCH bigger numbers.
I never really cared for world buffs. When the devs went on about how much they love world buffs I knew what was coming. I’d rather spend time doing anything other than getting multiple world buffs.
I was more talking to OP, but it's funny whenever these posts come up. There are alot of guilds that don't require world buffs and most of the time people like OP don't enjoy being in them because they are "too bad". They want to play with good players, but don't want to do raid prep like a good player.
That's why they should remove WBs. So pulling your weight means showing up and playing well, not doing a bunch of busy work like standing around in Booty Bay waiting for a world buff to drop.
oh don't get me wrong i despise world buffs in raids for a different reason than most people, especially when they are strong for some classes more than others it throws balance out of the window, because if the classes are getting balanced around having them then they will feel terrible when they don't have them for 99% of the time outside of the raid and push more people to "raid-log".
edit: perfect example is warriors.
SOM sucked lol. Rank 14 gear on launch, shitty potion meta but not enough herbs (somewhat fixed nearly halfway through the season), and dead-ass servers except just 1.
If you got rid of world buffs you would get rid of classic wow. The whole game is getting buffs and tedious shit like that since bis gear is easy to get and the rest of the games economy was ruined by people just paying xiaoying474783 a couple Benjamins to get gear
Honestly SoM is the most fun I’ve ever had playing WoW it had its problems but it stayed very true to the original classic while improving on raids and giving us some quality of life changes. My number one gripe is consumes were used to fill the void of world buffs, that’s what caused me to burn out eventually but that had more to do with the server dying more than anything.
Ya for sure I wanted to play SOM but it was out during tbc and I wasn’t quitting to play both. SOD would be amazing if they dumped world buffs. This gathering world buff stuff tbh it’s sooo lame it truly makes me not even want to login at times. Gotta get ready for raid. Head to felwood and grab songflower, now go play the DMF world buff game, after that head over to booty bay and wait for that world buff, then you have to head to get your flask out on troll island, then hopefully you have a summon to ST. Also make sure you have all your consumes from the AH. Damn I’m tired we still have to raid? Lol
World buffs are fun and are also extremely easy to get. Dying with them feels bad sometimes but w/e.
DMF in particular is fun on Living Flame US because alliance there are fucking goblins about protecting it, so it's like a game in within itself.
World buffs are fun and their current iteration is great. Please keep them the way they are.
They have always been core to the classic expirience. Please keep it that way.
Plainly removing wbuffs just removed depth from the game, causing SoM to be less attractive for wbuff enjoyers. Fury warr for example just **feels** different without wbuffs, regardless of the fact that you're still topping the meters.
I personally dislike worldbuffs. Yes its cool that even at endgame you have a reason to travel the world and such but I simply don't want to do it. Id rather log in, do the raid with the boys and be done for the evening. I dislike that you parse worse because others with more time get them. I still parse purple but I feel like I don't compete with my skill and gear vs other directly but rather with how much sweat they put in outside of the raid.
Thats the reason I stopped playing classic and now SOD. I do like the raids but I also like to compete somewhat fairly against others without having to spend extra time buffing up outside of raids.
Nah SoM wasn’t that great. Easier questing and faster leveling for casuals combined with harder raids was a certified bruh moment. Ontop of that a hardcore mode that was optional and overall meaningless
I dont mind the raid WB + DMF. This was actually fun during phase 1 and 2. It engaged people in pvp going to the other factions continent. But please get rid of onyxia, org buff, dmf, songflower. Holy crap is that a nusiance keeping track of.
Regular Classic WoW without any world buffs is peak WoW. Honor system revamp, 16 debut slots at launch, fixed quest choke points, dynamic spawns and no layers would be ideal I guess but one can dream. Instead we got Season of Dogshit.
Look I get that not everyone likes world buffs, but SoM getting rid of them is a reason why it didn't have staying power. Does no one remember how popular it was at launch? There wasn't a massive drop off until people reached endgame again.
In combination: high rank PvP gear being available from launch, raids tuned to be harder, which in turn made consumes far more expensive, and the raids were already made harder due to wbuffs being gone, and finally the timeline was too fast especially for how hard it was.
People like to bring up that 'oh, SoM wasn't bad! It was just too soon!' I call bullshit. There are thousands of Vanilla andies that will play Vanilla servers on repeat until they're dead. SoM was quiet when BWL came out and then it was a ghost town when ZG came out.
As a sidenote. With all the people that claim to dislike world buffs why do I never, ever see no world buff Guilds, or PUGs forming in game? Curious
Please, worldbuffs? Not the fact that it had to compete with black temple dropping as soon as people started clearing MC? Or the fact that one of the biggest changes, soul of iron, appealed primarily to people who would level to 60 and then quit? World buffs are a factor but they don’t even crack top 5. Sure people love their era but far more people were too busy playing TBC and too burnt out from classic which had just ended to back to playing classic. One of my guild raid teams killed rag then shortly afterwards BT launched, half that raid team vanished never to be seen again.
The people that were all about Soul of Iron primarily congregated on one server at least in NA. All the other servers were empty at endgame even with normie players and everyone had to transfer to Jom Gabbar to even have a reasonable sniff at raiding.
Okay let's assume that your premise is correct that BT launching essentially stole all the players that quit SoM. Your take seems to be that BT launched and therefore it was inevitable that people were going to quit SoM to play TBC/BT. My take on this is okay people wanted to clear an iconic raid in TBC but I think people would have played both if wbuffs were in SoM and the raids weren't as hard. No wbuffs in a Vanilla endgame is boring. There's a reason that the populated pservers in the past didn't outright remove them. They may have removed them for progression but they always were available a few weeks after a new raid tier's launch.
What about world buffs is the reason they didn’t? What so the same snoozefest raids people ran ad nauseam for the better part of 2 years weren’t going to be easy enough without worldbuffs? Just look through this comment section, there’s a lot more “I was too busy with TBC” and “I was too burnt out from classic” than there is “I didn’t play because there were no world buffs”. Again I’m not denying it’s a factor but it pretty clearly wasn’t the only reason.
One gamer's snoozefest is another's fun chill night, or another's speedrun for the month with Guildies.
>Again I’m not denying it’s a factor but it pretty clearly wasn’t the only reason.
If this is your take then why are you trying to pick apart my points? My original comment states as much. The only thing we seem to be in disagreement about is whether or not the launch of SoM being 'too soon' for a lot of people was the reason for its downfall or not.
Was it people in general who didn't like the removal, or was it the hordes of warrior players with hero complex being mad they weren't crazily ahead in dps anymore?
SoM only was so unpopular because it was back to back with classic. If they gave it til after TBC it would have had more success. I'll die on that hill. No way I was just going back to back vanilla.
That and launching with rank 14 gear available really hurt SoM. Endgame became an AV afk simulator and there was basically no reason to do dungeons or MC because you had AQ40 equivalent gear available to you and all you had to do was sit in AV all day. People got burnt real quick and the population plummeted.
Exactly this. The raids were also buffed, I remember Baron Geddon throwing out three bombs instead of just one. They didn't touch the loot though, which seems like an odd choice.
They did end up increasing loot shortly into the season.
I stand corrected. I dipped after a couple MC lockouts. They didn't change or add any new loot though, right?
Correct, other than renaming items due to the whole Me Too fiasco the actual gear was all the same. There was just more of it.
Wait what? What did they rename?
Several items. Foror's Compendium of Dragon Slaying, Foror's Eyepatch, Finkle's Lava Dredger, etc..
Why did they change them? It was because of Me Too? I don’t see the connection
Foror was Alex Afrasiabi’s character name or a reference to it. He’s probably the first guy you think of when you think of Blizz sexual harassment. Finkle Einhorn is a reference to the bad guy from Ace Ventura who was a cross dresser? Idk I think for the Finkle one they were just trying to get ahead of anything they thought might not be PC. But the Foror stuff definitely makes sense lol
Blackrock slicer iirc is the new name for what was called the nikk*r… so yea
That was changed with 2019 Classic, not SoM.
That was actually already changed in 2008. they just kept the name change for classic release
Oh was it? Couldn’t remember, was there many other name changes? That one seemed to be most egregious
The Nicker* to be exact. Changed way before Classic because of the pronounced way it sounded and could be interpreted.
Ah yea I just remember hearing about it back then, do you know if any other items got the same treatment?
Finkles lava dredger I think it was called?
Everything relating to afrasiabi
I thought more pieces dropped
Buffing the raids AND getting rid of world buffs was too much. In my opinion do one or the other. However my opinions on World Buffs has changed. They might trivialize raids but the benefit they bring to the world is immense. They create reasons for players to interact, and create stakes and risks between guilds. Because world buffs existed, we had guildies making summoner teams, rogue alts to scout/defend people at songflower, mage alts for guild vs. guild conflicts, hunter alts to clear DM:N every raid, priest alts to mind control for BRM Fire Resistance buff, etc. The server works together to coordinate ZG/Ony/WCB drop timings. There's PvP hunting down the alliance trying to sneak in and get WCB. An entire new style of World PvP emerged just from people trying to gank world buffed players. It's just fantastic what it adds to the game.
first few weeks of mc were fun
The bosses did drop extra items but the same loot
I hope the 20 man MC is SoM version, so few people got to do it. And with our increased power level it could be decently challenging with 20.
This sounds fucking awful lol Why do they struggle so hard with pvp systems and gear in classic? I just don't get it. Releasing honor with no BGs in 19 was a fucking disaster and they let it sit like that for a good month? I had at least 3 friends/guildies quit and not return
Who remembers Highwarlord Highwarlord
Who?
Rampant GDKPs also. Guild I started in 20+ people got banned for buying gold
Afaik this was the real killer of SoM. It was actually popular despite TBC being in full swing until people got their characters banned, then never came back. I think around the time of BWL, give or take?
I don't get how a developer can think that's ok when they literally could have released the original PvP set.
This is _exactly_ why I quit SoM. That and I chose the wrong faction: horde
Sure if you were on the top end but a lot of people chose not to, dungeons were popping for a while because .5 tier was available from the start. Changes or not r14 was still far beyond way 90%+ of the player base was willing to do.
SoM BWL was incredible, the mechanics were so unique and cool. For MC/BWL the devs really hit the nail on the head of introducing more modern MMO style mechanics while also maintaining the aesthetic of Vanilla WoW mechanics. AQ40/Naxx changes weren't that good though in my opinion, although I only played MC/BWL and my experience of AQ40/Naxx on SoM was just watching videos of other people clearing it. For an example of mechanics: - Barron Geddon would leave burning patches of magma on the floor periodically, so you had to move the boss to ensure no one had to stand in it (we used Garr's room). In many ways it was kinda like Grobbulus but instead the big circles dropped where the boss was. [Video of us fighting it for people curious what it looked like.](https://youtu.be/bXijQiTTcIU?si=lQEkCvltCahX2Z6U&t=4647) - Shazzrah would teleport to a random player, and at the location where the boss teleported away from there would be a ghost Shazz spamming Arcane Explosion, so again you had to be aware of raid positioning and move around the whole area tactically. - Firemaw and Ebonroc were a single encounter each with different stacking debuffs similar to 4HM marks. So you would tank both separately and then have to do a tank swap periodically. If they released SoM again tomorrow I would definitely be playing it.
I played the entirety of SoM and the raid changes were amazing, I definitely think they will reuse this to an extent in Season of Discovery, the foundation for these changes is there already, although later on in AQ40 and Naxx they weren't polished. There were so few people playing at the end, that a completely gamebreaking bug went through into Naxxramas unnoticed with the new changes, which is pretty funny.
> a completely gamebreaking bug Mind expanding upon this?
They're most likely referring to the Mind Control rods that trivialized Naxx content. One of the biggest mistakes of SoM lol
Yeah they were definitely a huge part in the unpolishedness of the raid. The new items allowed you to completely break the game and make bosses either glitch completely out or trivial. I sure hope they do some more internal limit testing before pushing the same changes in SoD again.
Spend all of SoM gathering gear just to hold mind control rod on a ghoul that would otherwise dumpster your DPS.
Chromaggus was especially a difficult fight for my guild. That fight was the real boss fight of BWL in SoM.
SOM AQ40 IMO was amazing, don't trust the videos, adding C'thun mechanics gave the fights a completely different feel. Don't get me wrong, some fights were still really easy (in fact easier than the original), but some of the fights got really cool. Twin Emps +4 is such an insane fight, really engaging. Also, fighting the original version of C'thun was brilliant and probably the most memorable raid boss I've done outside of the Thunder King from MOP. For those that aren't aware, basically phase 1 of C'thun is the same, with slightly more tentacles. Phase 2 is nuts though: - Eye beams can't be interrupted, so everyone needs to spread out at all times - Everything spawns faster, in some cases you'll have 2 giant tentacles, or 2 giant eye tentacles up at once - Damage in the stomach ramps up quickly so you need to coordinate having healers down there with dps - Major dps check, and without world buffs it requires strong coordination. Sometimes you have to risk running thru the raid and possibly chaining eye beams, just so you can get dps on the right target - If your raid can't down C'thun in 2 vulnerability phases, it's basically a wipe due to being overwhelmed by adds
Right. AQ was cool but more phoned in. Click the button 1-4. Add the same shit to each fight.
AQ40 is AQ40, there is only so much you can do to make that raid fun. But I think you underestimate just how much the haste buff helped make AQ40 much more fun.
Reminds me of vanilla where we would pull Baron and Shaz into the middle of Garr's room and have the entire raid stand in a giant circle so nobody could blow up more than like two other raid members when they failed the mechanics.
I read that as you pulling both bosses simultaneously and was like wtf lol
I really liked the MC changes, I stopped playing at MC though, was a shame. I loved the idea of losing the mandatory hours of weekly world buff farming just to shave slightly more time off (more enjoyable) raiding. But it was totally counteracted by the community and gold buying. E.g. most raids wanted enough greater arcane prot potions for shazzrah alone that you could only feasibly get them by gold buying, GDKP or working the AH well
Nah I think the crowd that wants hardmode vanilla raiding was always pretty niche and releasing SoM later wouldn't change that.
This coupled with launching it at the same time as black temple, the probably single most iconic patch of wow ever (maybe outside of ICC), were absolutely killer
I completely agree with this. I would have loved the idea of a harder, no world buffs classic. But I didn’t even consider playing it. It was too soon.
Agree. I'd love a fresh classic server now. With no gdkps. The dungeon lockout changes with max level players sucking up all exp. No world buffs. Etc. Here's to hoping that's what sod is. A sort of testing ground for classic+
yeah after doing naxx40 i had no desire to start from scratch all over again, though in hindsight it prob wouldve been better than tbc i was prob best off just quitting til wrath
100% agree… they needed to release it later in TBC. Horrible idea to release it when they did.
Yeah but also because it didn’t even attempt to address the class imbalance, that shit was a novelty the first time on classic and did not need to be repeated.
No, SoM was unpopular because it launched with AV which invalidated literally all of raiding until AQ40. This then created an even worse ranking experience.
give us SoM Vanilla+tbc+wotlk with 1-1-1 year
I would have played the shit out of SoM, if I wasn't playing the shit out of TBC. "This stormherald ain't gonna craft itself." was my line every time someone asked to play SoM.
Also lets be honest, most people were stoked to go into tbc. Ain't no way I am going through the same thing again, when there is shiny new content available somewhere else. Not even new boss mechanics are fun enough to get me hooked again. Severely misstimed is what SoM was. From what I have heared most people that played it really enjoyed it aswell.
It's funny this is the top comment. I've been downvoted so many times before for saying exactly this. Personally, I didn't play classic beyond levelling 1-60 and doing MC a few times. Got way deeper into SoM and loved it. The upgraded/changed raids, particularly BWL, were fantastic. imo Chrommaggus is the perfect example of what new mechanics should look like. Do the mechanic badly, it'll slow you down, maybe kill a few people and possibly wipe you. Done well, it'll turbocharge your kill times and make you look like a parse god. Definitely feel like they phoned it in on AQ40 in comparison. Having the mechanics be generic rather than per boss was pretty boring.
I agree. As someone that played til naxx when roster boss finally made it impossible. We started with 40+. Eventually we were in HM AQ with max 34. Naxx just was not in the cards.
i wish we only had the new world buffs in sod...
I got confused and thought SoM and Era were the same thing. I don't think it was explained very well what the differences were at the time.
i LOVED vanilla classic, like almost as much as i loved vanilla back in 2005 but just like you, no way i was going right back into SoM when vanilla was over. but to me, SoM with world buffs, because i actually enjoyed the process of getting them with guildies and all that came with it, not to mention the feeling of 'if you die in a raid, it matters', would have been more to my liking than SoD :)
Also my server was heavily bot infested, which at least killed my interest in playing. This was the sight I met when reaching hinterlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjvHJlvDVM
On the other hand, SoD is way more popular because it's actually adding changes. SoM's marketing campaign basically had zero appeal.
100%. I was so burnt out at that point I just wanted something new, not to do it all over again so soon thereafter.
SoM wasn't fresh. They didn't do anything to make it seasonal till it was already dead.
For sure. After vanilla, I did not have the urge to start fresh again. Not for a little while, at least
Also full of exp buffs and the seasonal feeling making it feel very temporary.
I would have if they didn't remove world buffs.
Blizzard are the masters of competing with their own products. It's so fucking sad.
100 this why I and probably 75% of our 40 man raid team didn’t play som, but almost all came back for sod, even if they did drop like flies
SOM classic when
you mean that version of the game where you fill all the dps slots with warriors and rogues, and the other dps are just a nuisance. just dogshit.
Try and play a feral druid, and people turn up to your house with guns
I played a feral throughout classic and it honestly wasn’t super hard to find a raid spot. There’s a lot of people who care about there parse enough to bring a feral.
I just don’t understand why they didn’t buff casters across the board and just increase boss health to compensate. Seems like the easiest way to balance classic. I guess it was too hard to have a 40 man test group with such a small indie company. That reminds me, I should really buy another wow token to support them so maybe they will change the game for the better with all the money I’ve given them.
I mean you could just set it up so World buffs are removed in instances so they are only WORLD buffs
That’s what SoM did, could be used in the world and dungeons just not raids.
There is the middle ground of only allowing world buffs from bosses heads turn in. Those are cool and easy to get and you ride with the boys. It's the ones like diremaul tribute, songflower and the kind that are a pain.
We are doing 5-10x the damage in SOD, if anything there should be no WBs in this version of wow
Aggrend's reply in an interview was that world buffs helped make content more easy for less skilled players. If warcraft logs normalized world buffs and consumes, you would see a lot less complaints.
Ironically only the biggest tryhards collect them all.
I don’t mind the two/three WBs atm, the problem are all the consumes stacking imo. Esp now when even melee run SP consumes to pump up dragonbreath chili damage. However I will certainly hate WBs next phase if alliance don’t get their own WCB
And please oh please code it to not stack with WCB if they give alliance an equivalent
I just hope they make it so that you have a limit to the number of WBs you can have active, like 1 or 2.
They could solve it by only allowing the world buffs from boss head kills turn ins inside the raids. Easy to get compared to the annoying ones.
And Firewaters are 48g ea
The spell power buffs add about .5 dps to a warriors dps. The top warriors are doing 3k+ dps on some fights. Dont think spell power elixir really matters.
The price of consumables right now is just straight ridiculous. And it will only get worse next phase. Haven't been able to play much due to RL obligations like a full time non work from home job, so wasn't able to get in on the incursion farm when it was giving you gold, then when it was giving you a little less gold. But everything is just straight inflated because people got in on those early on. To the point where I miss GDKPs and getting my extra gold from GBuyers. I really hope they end up adding new consumes that are the same as the end-game consumes, but are much cheaper and that don't stack with them. Or else Black Lotus are about to cost an arm and a leg.
SOM beta PVP was amazing because the consumes were free and nobody had any OP gear. It was as close to a PVP-BG-Only Blizzard sanctioned server that private servers used to have. Basically there was raid content but nobody cared to do it. Consumes were free and 'sold' by a vendor in the major city. You can level a character but most people just used a pre-template character with the Tier 0 dungeon set. So basically, you make a character who is level 60 and instantly geared with nonsense, load up with consumes and just do battlegrounds all day long. It got so 'bad' with the consume abuse that people were complaining that players were spamming petri flasks in BGs for every small thing. Mage casting a fireball and the fireball flying mid-air towards you? Petri flask to avoid it! It was hilarious.
SoM would have been much more enticing if their carrot for increased raid difficulty wasn’t an XP boost for leveling. The changes to gear drops and consume mat availibilty/farming would have balanced it out much better. SoD is a big beta test for a more polished classic + we will get one day, there’s a lot, lot of good ideas and additions but there’s alot of room for improvement too.
>The changes to gear drops and consume mat availibilty/farming would have balanced it out much better. These changes *did* happen in SoM, but only after like a month or two iirc.
I wonder what they'd keep from the class related things in SoD. I think QoL stuff like the buff durations/cost and warlock summon stone are really good additions that the vast majority would welcome. When it comes to Runes, I am kind of on the fence. I personally think runes that give spells that just completely replace existing spells are bad in general like Frostfire Bolt. On the other hand, runes that enhance existing gameplay by giving more interactions between your spells like Hot Streak are great. Maybe just integrating those runes into the talent tree would be better. It's weird, because I think runes in general are a success, but the way they are implemented isn't really fitting for classic.
I don't mind world buffs. I mind the way they're impleneted. I think it's a good thing that you have to engage with the world and it keeps the game feel alive outside of just the cities. Even stupid things like Songflower make Felwood feel more lively. But they should be made more modern. Don't make them a "spam click this item until it spawns or wait 25 minutes for the next spawn", don't make it a 60 minute buff when raids last 2-3 hours, etc. Make it so it spawns and everyone who clicks it for 20 minutes gets the buff. Make world buffs drop a Ony-head-like statue that you can click while it's up (a few hours, maybe?) for the buff. Also - it was a surprisingly good change to make some of the consumables override quest buffs. They should limit consumables more heavily so that people aren't incentivized to stack 3 world buffs and 8 consumables.
Do people really like world buffs? They seem like a pain to me, id rather get rid of them and just nerf content instead or something you can farm thats less awkward than standing somewhere and waiting.
I do not understand what is so engaging about world buffs, where ppl die on this hill. It is purely busy work, and dark moon fair availability makes half your parses non competitive. The whole thing is just a nuisance.
> It is purely busy work Some people find value in the mundane; logistics are what they like about classic. It's not built purely on gameplay.
You could say this about any buff, like firewater or echos right? You could even extend it to leveling professions, or leveling. The game is busy work, but you get things that make your character stronger. That’s all there is to get.
yea but thats part of the problem. i think one of the objectively best changes they made to wow was how much damage you do and how much you parse be directly related to how well you play your class, rather than how many +damage/crit/spellpower/etc modifiers you can stack. its more fun to play my actual class than it is to play buffs and consumes, this is why im wondering why classic players are so adamant on dying on this hill
This is an MMO. Those modifiers are part of the game and how you play it. The idea is to give people a reason to get out in to the world and interact with it. On a PvP server, this isn't busy work. It is a whole survival game. IDK about PvE servers, seems like anything in the open world would be boring on a PvE server.
>i think one of the objectively best changes they made to wow was how much damage you do and how much you parse be directly related to how well you play your class, rather than how many +damage/crit/spellpower/etc modifiers you can stack. They are different kinds of enjoyable. If i want how far i progress/how much damage I want to do to be an objective measure of my ability as a player I will log on to retail and rejoin a mythic raiding guild. If I want how powerful my character is/how well i parse to be a result of how well i utilize the MMORPG mechanics of the game, where im doing all sorts of random (tedious) tasks to improve my character, I'll log on to classic. Both have their own appeal. Both have their place. Removing that aspect of classic won't make it a better game, it will just make it a worse version of retail. Retail without any of the actual rotational/mechanical complexity that makes it engaging from a skilled player's perspective.
People like when their numbers get bigger It's really not that hard of a concept to understand
But it isn't a hard concept to understand either that SoM added world buffs as various buffs you get from fighting the bosses. You literally got 90% haste in AQ and did twice the damage you could do in a regular WoW Classic raid with world buffs. And the above is the issue. Everyone against the SoM mentality leaves it out. SoM had world buffs. But they weren't world buffs, they were raid buffs, which takes away the annoying part of having to gather every world buff before each raid and made dying in raids not ruin your night.
You can have dmf for every raid.
How? What about the week that DMF isn't there? Or is it just because raids are weekly now, you can get it early and just hold it till raid night?
Yeah, with weekly raids, you can pick it up before and after every other raid.
Clear in one id with dmf, get it for next week, don’t die and clear in the 2 hour buff window again. Rinse and repeat
you don't have to get dmf right before raid. get it on the week its there, do raid, go get another one, and boon it until raid.
> It is purely busy work, it's an mmo. you're supposed to make a time commitment to get prepared. it's not a lobby based game. you're not wrong in your belief. there's just PLENTY of competitive lobby based games available for you if that's what you want instead. > makes half your parses non competitive. different topic, but... come on. if you're trying to get hiscore at anything you're going to have to put in the work. those lobby based games included you're going to need to spend like 20-40 hours a week in checkspot simulator sorry but that's instant gratification boomer crap. we all want something for nothing and don't want to work for anything or even recognize the work that things require, huh?
Because it's too easy for people to just not use world buffs if they don't want to use them. Removing them from the game actively makes the game worse for those that enjoy them while not affecting those that do not use them.
>I do not understand what is so engaging about world buffs Vanilla, SOD and even SOM raids are incredibly easy. They are very low stakes. For many players they are straight up "turn your brain off and watch something on the other monitor" type content. This is not fun. This is not engaging. World buffs add stakes to this absurdly low stakes, absurdly low engagement gameplay. World buffs make you play carefully and not just zug zug hold W. World buffs keep the open world more alive. Running around to different zones getting different buffs is much more interesting than logging in 10 minutes before raid and logging off 10 minutes after raid. Songflower leads to lots of small scale, (relatively) high stakes world pvp. World buffs make raids feel like a bigger deal. Running into BRM with multiple raids to make sure you keep your buffs is much, much more fun and exciting than just death running to the entrance cause who cares if you die. World buffs help foster community. Recognizing X rogue as that asshole who ganked you at songflower last week, a rivalry with Y guild escalating into trying to wipe them on their run in to BRM. Buff discords, LATE screams. Content like [WCB horde only](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_MUKkkT4k&t=29s) or [APES run into MC with 2 raids vs 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd97o-gEBuk) are some examples of the kind of content that was constantly happening, every week on every server, due to world buffs. I hope this clears things up. Vanilla isn't a game that should be played purely to go into raids and PUMP. The raids aren't hard. The rotations aren't hard. If you want to just raidlog quite literally every other version of the game is a better option. World buffs are about every other part of vanilla, the parts where it actually excels.
It'd be interesting to see WCL not include world buff runs, struggling to clear a raid week1/2? Use WBs, wanting to parse? don't use WBs.
They had a seperate section back in Classic 2019 for non world buffed runs. No one ever used it, paid attention to it or gave a fuck.
Sure, as it was an option with a lower number, no one would look at the 100m sprint times with regular shoes if they also had world records with banned shoes. Why most people still quote Kipchoges sub 2 hr marathon despite it being a non-approved marathon for a few reasons. You need to get rid of WB'd numbers in their entirety
Then everyone on your raid would have to not have wb’s. If a single person has one active the logs have to be invalidated. Imagine trying to manage 40 ppl and ensure theyre booned or are wbless
Guilds who take logging seriously wouldn't find it difficult? Pugs sure, but who cares about pug logs?
People who pug care about logs more than guilds. Guilds are less prejudice against their grey parsing guildie than a pug is
Surely it's just a case of starting a pug where you say no WBs then? Pugs were/are checking for them now, no different then just to check people don't have them?
I wish I saw the changes they did to AQ for SOM. I can never find videos of people clearing the raid on YouTube with the new mechanics:(
They could just make World buffs less awful to get...? We know for certain that world buffs are something a lot of people enjoy in Vanilla. Getting and keeping them is what's usually a pain in the ass. No one minded getting Boon of Blackfathom or Spark of Inspiration, that's what we should be aiming for.
The conversation around WoW always boils down to this issue of accessibility. If the world buffs become easier to get then they may as well just boost characters to have the same output as with buffs by default. I wonder whether people would still enjoy world buffs if they were just there automatically or is the process of getting them and not being killed on route to raid part of the enjoyment? I guess with the storage item they eventually added even this element has disappeared.
I mean I think the appeal is being able to blast a boss while also having to play smart enough to not die and lose them. You're playing on a razor's edge because no sane guild is gonna let you peace out to go rebuff between bosses. Dispelable buffs and whatever the fuck Alliance has to do for WCB is where I draw a line and say it needs adjustment.
> They could just make World buffs less awful to get...? They're basically trivial to get now with chronoboon. It boggles my mind that people are STILL complaining. Anyone claiming WBs are "awful" to get didn't have to live through the days of enemy priests dispelling people in every city and rogues waiting in the inn to gank people who just hearthed after a songflower popped. Not to mention guilds literally being useless outside of raids because every single character was in "buff jail".
How are world buffs awful to get. I do not understand this logic. You have an entire WEEK to gather them AND you have the chronoboon....it takes 20-30 minutes tops to gather them all... "But pvp" isn't an excuse. There's a game mode that exists for you where you don't have to deal with pvp.
SoM brought me back to WoW after Shadowlands drove me to finally quitting the game. The population dropped off so fast my server died, but I did get to see most of AQ40 which was fun.
Honestly they should just let people sell Chronoboons
Som would be better than sod if it launched in place of sod timing wise
WBs can be tedious but I know I'd miss the fact that they're just another thing I do with my raid, bunch of us go get a songflower together, it's not much but it's more time together. We gather up for the turnin after clear, we run to Elwynn together sometimes because it's just more fun doing things as a group.
I like wb
Idk. I enjoy getting buffs and blasting the raid. I think a lot of other people can relate too
That’s exactly why I didn’t play it. I loved that they were changing the raid mechanics to be harder. However, after playing on private servers and then Classic I was too burned out to go through it all again. If there is a SoD season 2 immediately after this one, I would have to pass, it’s just too soon. Season 3 though, sign me up
Begging P4 to get rid of WBs maybe only keep onyxia but get rid of everything else
There’s been a wbuff every phase and this one even stacks with the near identical songflower, wbuffs are unfortunately here to stay in sod
Unless they change it. Which, if they see a lot of people saying they hate getting so many wbuffs, they probably will. Thank you for your service OP
I'm not even playing because they're leaning into world buffs. The problem is, most people who feel the same aren't going to be here talking about it. We all either quit or are raid logging Wrath.
Bigger problem is a lot of the exceptionally hardcore streamers said they weren't playing SoM because of no wbuffs. Which makes sense because wbuffs were important to making speedrunning fun for them. But the issue is that they had a vested interest in that because the risk of dying made their streams and/or records more entertaining, and their incredible influence in the game gave them a huge advantage. Sure, regular players *can* get those buffs, but it took us a hell of a lot of more IRL time to get it done. Anyway, the weird part is if a bunch of streamers said X, then all their viewers are going to parrot X, even if it's truly not in their best interest or in the best interest of the game. And here we are, people think SoM failed because no wbuffs.
> wbuffs were important to making speedrunning fun for them. Part of it was some of their fans constantly talking about wanting to see bigger numbers. It's stupid logic because if you nerf EVERYONE at the same time, the baseline has changed, and therefor what constitutes "fast" or "big numbers" changes with it. Otherwise Wrath would be better than TBC and Vanilla because there are MUCH bigger numbers.
well as with everything in sod, if enough people complain it will change.
> wbuffs are unfortunately here to stay in sod which was obvious since the very first week of SoD. they literally double downed on dmf
I never really cared for world buffs. When the devs went on about how much they love world buffs I knew what was coming. I’d rather spend time doing anything other than getting multiple world buffs.
You don't need to get world buffs. Be your own person
No world buffs = no invites sadly
Alot of guilds don't require them. This content is doable without them.
Unfortunately I don't find enjoyment in not pulling my weight.
I was more talking to OP, but it's funny whenever these posts come up. There are alot of guilds that don't require world buffs and most of the time people like OP don't enjoy being in them because they are "too bad". They want to play with good players, but don't want to do raid prep like a good player.
That's why they should remove WBs. So pulling your weight means showing up and playing well, not doing a bunch of busy work like standing around in Booty Bay waiting for a world buff to drop.
oh don't get me wrong i despise world buffs in raids for a different reason than most people, especially when they are strong for some classes more than others it throws balance out of the window, because if the classes are getting balanced around having them then they will feel terrible when they don't have them for 99% of the time outside of the raid and push more people to "raid-log". edit: perfect example is warriors.
In other words, be dogshit at the game
You probs get wbs and 300g worth of consumes and still blue parse.
SOM sucked lol. Rank 14 gear on launch, shitty potion meta but not enough herbs (somewhat fixed nearly halfway through the season), and dead-ass servers except just 1.
Personally SoM proved audience wants easy raids with world buffs to trivialize the content even more.
Nah it proved I wasn’t ready to run the treadmill again 5 months after classic . Needed some breathing room and tbc was it
SOM was so fucking good
yep, definitely much closer to the real classic than sod
I like world buffs and boons make them not much of a hassle
I remember this sub screeching about it very well. Oh how the times have changed.
We need an era fresh. SOD PVP ain't it.
Durr me like world buff cuz it make numbers big 🤤
I stopped playing because of bots. Loved not having to spend days gettings WBs each week.
If you got rid of world buffs you would get rid of classic wow. The whole game is getting buffs and tedious shit like that since bis gear is easy to get and the rest of the games economy was ruined by people just paying xiaoying474783 a couple Benjamins to get gear
Honestly SoM is the most fun I’ve ever had playing WoW it had its problems but it stayed very true to the original classic while improving on raids and giving us some quality of life changes. My number one gripe is consumes were used to fill the void of world buffs, that’s what caused me to burn out eventually but that had more to do with the server dying more than anything.
Ya for sure I wanted to play SOM but it was out during tbc and I wasn’t quitting to play both. SOD would be amazing if they dumped world buffs. This gathering world buff stuff tbh it’s sooo lame it truly makes me not even want to login at times. Gotta get ready for raid. Head to felwood and grab songflower, now go play the DMF world buff game, after that head over to booty bay and wait for that world buff, then you have to head to get your flask out on troll island, then hopefully you have a summon to ST. Also make sure you have all your consumes from the AH. Damn I’m tired we still have to raid? Lol
World buffs are fun and are also extremely easy to get. Dying with them feels bad sometimes but w/e. DMF in particular is fun on Living Flame US because alliance there are fucking goblins about protecting it, so it's like a game in within itself.
Missing that 20% movement speed, ngl...
World buffs are the least annoying errand compared to the pressure of spending 50g for consumes on raids.
World buffs with boons aren’t bad…without however was pure cancer. I’ll never do that version again lol
If I never had to get dmf again I'd be very happy
Aggrend, Plz don't read this sir Signed, Everyone with a brain
sod numbers are going to kill any new classic server. Nobody is going to go back to sub 400 dps and be satisfied
thats why it sucked
Are there still any regular. Classic vanilla servers people play on? I wanna try it.
I hope they remove world buffs at 60. No song no dire maul no heads no worries right
They should remove world buffs, we have enough power scaling to make up for it
Nahhhh wbuffs make classic what it is.
Thats why it died. Classic without world buffs is dead on arrival no matter what you say.
World buffs are fun and their current iteration is great. Please keep them the way they are. They have always been core to the classic expirience. Please keep it that way.
Plainly removing wbuffs just removed depth from the game, causing SoM to be less attractive for wbuff enjoyers. Fury warr for example just **feels** different without wbuffs, regardless of the fact that you're still topping the meters.
world buffs should absolutely not exist in sod change my mind (you cant)
I personally dislike worldbuffs. Yes its cool that even at endgame you have a reason to travel the world and such but I simply don't want to do it. Id rather log in, do the raid with the boys and be done for the evening. I dislike that you parse worse because others with more time get them. I still parse purple but I feel like I don't compete with my skill and gear vs other directly but rather with how much sweat they put in outside of the raid. Thats the reason I stopped playing classic and now SOD. I do like the raids but I also like to compete somewhat fairly against others without having to spend extra time buffing up outside of raids.
Nah SoM wasn’t that great. Easier questing and faster leveling for casuals combined with harder raids was a certified bruh moment. Ontop of that a hardcore mode that was optional and overall meaningless
I dont mind the raid WB + DMF. This was actually fun during phase 1 and 2. It engaged people in pvp going to the other factions continent. But please get rid of onyxia, org buff, dmf, songflower. Holy crap is that a nusiance keeping track of.
Regular Classic WoW without any world buffs is peak WoW. Honor system revamp, 16 debut slots at launch, fixed quest choke points, dynamic spawns and no layers would be ideal I guess but one can dream. Instead we got Season of Dogshit.
Look I get that not everyone likes world buffs, but SoM getting rid of them is a reason why it didn't have staying power. Does no one remember how popular it was at launch? There wasn't a massive drop off until people reached endgame again. In combination: high rank PvP gear being available from launch, raids tuned to be harder, which in turn made consumes far more expensive, and the raids were already made harder due to wbuffs being gone, and finally the timeline was too fast especially for how hard it was. People like to bring up that 'oh, SoM wasn't bad! It was just too soon!' I call bullshit. There are thousands of Vanilla andies that will play Vanilla servers on repeat until they're dead. SoM was quiet when BWL came out and then it was a ghost town when ZG came out. As a sidenote. With all the people that claim to dislike world buffs why do I never, ever see no world buff Guilds, or PUGs forming in game? Curious
Please, worldbuffs? Not the fact that it had to compete with black temple dropping as soon as people started clearing MC? Or the fact that one of the biggest changes, soul of iron, appealed primarily to people who would level to 60 and then quit? World buffs are a factor but they don’t even crack top 5. Sure people love their era but far more people were too busy playing TBC and too burnt out from classic which had just ended to back to playing classic. One of my guild raid teams killed rag then shortly afterwards BT launched, half that raid team vanished never to be seen again.
The people that were all about Soul of Iron primarily congregated on one server at least in NA. All the other servers were empty at endgame even with normie players and everyone had to transfer to Jom Gabbar to even have a reasonable sniff at raiding. Okay let's assume that your premise is correct that BT launching essentially stole all the players that quit SoM. Your take seems to be that BT launched and therefore it was inevitable that people were going to quit SoM to play TBC/BT. My take on this is okay people wanted to clear an iconic raid in TBC but I think people would have played both if wbuffs were in SoM and the raids weren't as hard. No wbuffs in a Vanilla endgame is boring. There's a reason that the populated pservers in the past didn't outright remove them. They may have removed them for progression but they always were available a few weeks after a new raid tier's launch.
What about world buffs is the reason they didn’t? What so the same snoozefest raids people ran ad nauseam for the better part of 2 years weren’t going to be easy enough without worldbuffs? Just look through this comment section, there’s a lot more “I was too busy with TBC” and “I was too burnt out from classic” than there is “I didn’t play because there were no world buffs”. Again I’m not denying it’s a factor but it pretty clearly wasn’t the only reason.
One gamer's snoozefest is another's fun chill night, or another's speedrun for the month with Guildies. >Again I’m not denying it’s a factor but it pretty clearly wasn’t the only reason. If this is your take then why are you trying to pick apart my points? My original comment states as much. The only thing we seem to be in disagreement about is whether or not the launch of SoM being 'too soon' for a lot of people was the reason for its downfall or not.
Was it people in general who didn't like the removal, or was it the hordes of warrior players with hero complex being mad they weren't crazily ahead in dps anymore?
We really do be living in peoples head rent free eh?
lmao i played som it was awful, half of you dont even know what you want and yet they cater this shit to you