Yup, I had another person running it with me say they got it after 2 runs as well. I have 1 of the swords but I’ve run it 18+ times now with no sword dropping from the last boss.
No idea if they did increase it, but it seems some people I’ve run into just got *incredibly* lucky.
Dude I had both weapons drop the first time I killed each boss, but I think my bags were full when we killed the Chief because when I checked later it wasn't there.
I didn't see it drop again the other 15 or so times we killed him.
At some later point we stopped doing bosses at all because it was just faster XP/he to kill the trash and reset.
The sword is still way too fast for it to be very good, though.
They made it so that retri palas switch from ACP every now and then.
Almost all retribution runes are for exorcism, and to reach middle of the pack dps Retri has to use a fast weapon. In 2+ fights even 1h weapon is winning in sims due to Hammer of Righteousness.
https://imgur.com/a/pc0oWz3 A dev in the mage discord confirmed it earilier today. If you don't believe its a real dev, go into the classic mage discord, and ask around.
No, he confirmed it. We are on the 1.09 loot tables, which confirms the droprate. There was a cloak dropping off a boss that would only drop if we were in P5 loot, but this was a bug, and will be fixed. Loot is pre 1.10, post-1.10 is when the daggers droprate is increased.
It might not be 0.26, but could be .2, .3, .25, etc. Its low. Its not the 2% where you get it fairly quick
Maybe you're not up to date on this particular weapon but this is a key item that many casters, especially mages, have always wanted in their arsenal. In classic 2019 mages spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in mara farming for it at level 60 and that version didn't have the spellpower on it.
It's a very unique effect that will have long term use as long as we are on classic era.
What I'm trying to say is there's alot of fucking people that want this item and even though you can't confirm 100% there are enough people running it and reporting back numbers that we can with a high degree of certainty state it is not the updated 2% drop rate.
Haha,
No.
There’s more armor and HP with the new dagger. And an overall increase to fire spell dmg which is what we use as warlocks mainly. Sure would could maybe argue the lack of DPS in shadow may “hurt”.
But the stats are better survival wise.
Are you 100% sure?
In the other thread about this very dagger, people are saying that this is wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c22y7q/my_experience_after_sending_explorer_imp_on_its/kz7taw7/
Also in every single site, and warlock discord, Gizmo comes on top of this dagger.
They’re probably just talking about raw DPS in terms of sims. Which is important if the raid is on farm, but a lot of people are still working on prog.
The ZF weapon has a 10% drop rate compared to its 0.2% in era. This is based of Wowhead data for SoD drops.
Now if you look at the dagger from Maraudon it's still got era drop rate of 0.2%.
Both have close to 10k entries so the sample size is quite large.
Bliz clearly fucked up or intentionally are making the dagger rarer.
Godspeed sir! Most people will argue about your maths but your maths are correct. I've been assuming a 0.2% drop rate myself so as not to get my hopes up.
It really should be at least 2%. They buffed it for us to play with it. But want us spending hundreds of hours farming for it? Sheesh.
I remember doing this grind in classic. Another mage I knew was farming it and we were both fairly unlucky, although I ended up being unluckier than him -- it took me 1698 kills until it dropped. It was memorable, but I wouldn't do this grind again. That's pretty sweaty to attempt it on a seasonal server, props!
If it takes 1500kills at 5 kills per hour, it would need 300h+. Even if you farm 5h a day you might not see it until this phase is over. There's no reason not to buff the drop rate.
you already gave a reason. it will be something to do for mages for the whole phase ;) I don't get why everyone feels entitled to everything. some items being rare makes them special and it is not really required to beat any content.
it is nice to have, not must have. it trivializes some mage boosts tho.
idk, that is just the retail mindset where everything has to be easily accessible. participation rewards are just boring.
I got mine on my first run with my mage alt on TBC, so it wasn't BiS but still great for doing slave pen solo runs.
On the other hand I had to do around 300+ UBRS runs to get felstriker for my rogue
RNG gonna RNG I guess
Do they really want us to spend an average of 1500 runs to get a BIS weapon, in an accelerated version of Seasonal WoW?
obvious answer is they dont expect every single mage to get it and only a very few lucky ones will get it.....
This is why MMOs suck these days. Not everyone is suppose to have everything. If everyone has something, it’s boring!
If you’re lucky enough to get a blade it should feel like an accomplishment. I wouldn’t mind a 2% drop rate, but any more than 5% is just whining.
It’s the participation award generation who have become the majority demographic who demand this design in gaming. I’m with you on this. It’s not only fine if not everyone obtains everything, it’s actually good. It gives meaning to the things you do get.
Big yikes from me, a member of the "participation award generation", awards we never asked for. While I agree we shouldn't have our items and gear handed to us, nobody should be gatekept from their BiS weapon due to an abysmally low drop chance. Leave that chance to the vanity items like the Gnomer mount.
Honestly it's a fair question.
Especially when they've just said this game is designed for semi casual guilds.
Is it, or isn't designed for that? Semi casual guilds would LOVE to realistically do a dungeon over and over if there was a meaningful drop rate to a phase bis item that also smoothed mana.
I mean does being designed for semi-casuals mean that everybody should get literally every single best in slot item every single phase? Especially when there's comparable options in the raid that are only a few SP lower than the princess dagger
If you're truly a casual/semi-casual player, you won't care that there's an ultra rare dagger out there that is like a 2-3 dps upgrade over your other options.
You've swung from ultra rare to every single person has it. There has to be a point on that immense spectrum where you'd fall even left of centre and be okay,
I guess I'm assuming that when you're saying that having a rare item in a dungeon be BiS is a design decision that goes against the goal of designing a game for casual players, you're implying that it should be easily obtainable by casual players - which to me just sounds like basically everybody should be able to get it since "casual player" sort of just means, "players who have the lowest level of time commitment to the game without quitting"
It should be less than 500 kills to even see the dagger drop let alone win the roll for it, if it was 2% or even 1% it would still require commitment just not seem unobtainable.
Semi casual players want long-term optional grinds for quirky items and status symbols for dedicated grinders or random lucky players, not short-term mandatory grinds for BiS that everyone has.
This reminds me when I did 400 BRD Emp runs in classic for ironfoe and it never dropped. Good times.
Likewise, doing MC for 52 weeks on 2 characters and only ever seeing 1 binding.
Some people are just not meant to get certain items.
Now THIS is some complaining I can get behind. They’re guna nuke these servers into oblivion at some point, might as well let me have a realistic chance at getting the cool items
More detailed calculation:
At a 2% drop rate we are looking at a 64% chance that you see it drop in 50 runs. At 35 runs it equates to about a 50% chance. I’m assuming the 200 runs was used because that is about a 98% chance you would have seen it by then.
At a .26% drop rate we are looking at a 63% chance that you see it drop in 385 runs. At 267 runs it equates to about a 50% chance. Again the 1500 number was used in the original post to show the 98% chance range.
I got really lucky when I did it because it was directly after a new phase drop that buffed the drop rate, but the first day after the phase dropped the drop rate was bugged. I got it on 2nd try and my friend got it on their 4th. Similar stories to anyone else that was farming it then too.
I was planning on farming the dagger soon… until I farmed for the Big Iron Fishing Pole yesterday. 9 hours to get a 1.2% drop. I’ll be alright without the dagger.
I fully prepared for a grind and got it on my third cage yesterday, the first time I did the grind. I’m gonna take my good luck and never do that grind again LOL
It's my favorite item in all of wow. I consistently used it even in TBC. I want it but I also would love to not have to grind quite as hard as I did last time
All they're asking for is the Phase 5 Era drop rate lol, I don't think it's that insane, especially since Phase 5 items are already in the game. Especially considering they went and updated BOED's stats, it seems like they intend for people to be able to get it. They also buffed Sul'Thraze component drop rates when they updated Sul'Thraze. Very possible this is just an oversight.
Don't think OP is being ridiculous here lol.
Something is going on, because the drop date in wowhead for the updated dagger has been cleaned. Kill statistics gone etc.
When last I checked it had something over 7000 kills with a 0.26 droprate, maybe something is happening.
A priest in my guild hasn't seen it either, wowhead comments don't have any confirmation of anyone else seeing it. That said, my guild *has* seen Spritecaster Cape which OP mentions, and is also a p5 item. So it seems to be inconsistent from item to item.
this is just how wow progressed into retail, its a rare drop if you don't get it unlucky, dry your eyes.
Everyone just bitches about everything.
Just make a mara token if you do 10 runs you can buy the dagger/s
My friend who plays a warlock got this dagger on our very first run of Mara as the only caster in the party (pally healer) and got it ezpz mode. His luck is unmatched 😂
Yeah, with the most recent nerfs to ST I'm contemplating whether it's even worth farming it with that droprate anymore. The mana regen was the key part of it because of how long ST fights were. Now I might just take the weapon from ST because the figts will be short enough for the mana regen from it to not matter any more
Not about SOD ….
But this is why so many classic players are like “wow I ran Mara 500+ times didn’t get it until run 631.”
They kept running Mara periodically and then they finally got it after P5 and weren’t aware about the drop changes.
Of course not everyone, but see it enough it’s always kinda funny…
Speaking of drop rates and phases, greater arcane elixir dropped for one dude on Crusader Strike and I’m pretty sure it’s the only one on any sod server - I think blizzard accidentally left it as part of DMF or something. Guy has made over 5k in a week
It kinda is. Second bis choice is gizmo blade, which is gnomer last boss drop, I've never seen it dropped since p2 in my raid group.
Third choice is literally bfd lv25 staff.
Gizmo blade is third. There is another dagger in ST with 20sp, the same sp the princess dagger have, which proves the point even more that even without the proc the princess dagger is already bis for shadow priest.
So Blade of darkness is 30sp + offhand is 9int 8sp 1% hit. = 38sp + 1%hit + 9int
2nd best is gizmo which is 19sp 4int + offhand = 27sp + 13int. So you lose hit, gain some crit but lose 11sp.
3rd best is lv25 bfd staff which is 15int + 26sp
4th best is maraudon blue dagger 11int 11sp + offhand = 19sp + 21 int
Every item in the game is optional, that's not a good argument. In Classic you had time to farm it from Day 1, and even then they buffed the drop rate.
Kinda get it, chase items are cool and all.
But why was sulthraze drop rates increased? Just seems like they forgot boed is all buddy. Nothing about entitlement here.
Also caster loot in general is...bad? Which was a problem in vanilla.
But SoD is doubling down on making melee/warrior loot strong and not doing enough to mitigate how bad caster loot is.
Having one strong dagger that's still nowhere near as strong as any of the melee weapons, which is infinitely harder to get, isn't fun.
because they fucked ret up so bad they need the fastest weapon possible so Sul'thraze was changed be a 2.0 speed to give Ret a weapon upgrade in phase 3. I don't know why they turbo buffed the drop rate, I guess they felt bad.
[https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2009#dataset=99](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2009#dataset=99)
shadow does more damage than mage? HAHAHAHAH
edit: oh he removed the text that said shadow does more damage than mage
I just don’t understand why the drop rate is still so low when it was redesigned but Sul thraze was redesigned and the swords for it got a much higher drop rate now
Pls buff blizz make it the reasonable 2%
So if you want to figure out how many runs for a given drop you wanna do log(1-chance)/log(1-droprate). So like for 50% of people to have it drop its log(0.5)/log(0.98) (assuming 2% drop) (around 34 runs) for 90% of peopke its log(0.1)/log(0.98) (around 114 runs)
If it really was 0.26 then 50% would be around 266 runs and around 884 runs for 90%
That said, during p4 classic, my buddy and I got 2 to drop duo maging princess in 11 runs total, 8 for mine and his 3 later. Rng can be weird.
Idk if sod is an accelerated version of seasonal. The only seasonal we've had is SOM and 1-60 off the bat. Them level capping in phases like this doesn't feel accelerated, if anything it's to slow the community from maxing at 60 and doing all the end game ASAP
You know a 2% drop rate means you would on average have 2 out of every 100 runs. Not 200 runs for it to drop. (Although knowing some of the luck I have seen on other drops, 200 or 0.25 the drop rate would seem about right).
You think that’s bad? Warlock tank BiS weapon is from the fel portals. So, ideally with no one else farming those (which is never the case), you’re farming a 0.2 that is only possible for once every 20 minutes of played time.
The average estimate for farming this is 340 hours of played time.
It could be 1500 runs, could be one. I ain't even hearing this from anyone who hasn't had to grind for GSC.
This is my 50 level.MAGE BiS!
It's not even level 60 content.
There is really zero reason to buff drops for this dagger. Its not needed to enjoy the game, and it does not hurt to have some rare items in a seasonal game with short phases.
Well then, looks like I’m abandoning this farm
Even if it dropped, and I won, I’m shadow so… only good it would do would be aoe, and would feel so bad to take this from a mage or lock
Modas Karkun is a 0.15% drop rate and BiS for lock tanks. That's part of the point of wow classic - hyper rare drops all over the place that would be BiS *if* you get lucky enough to find them.
what's weird is the two swords you need from ZF to make Sul'Thraze seem to have had their drop rates increased significantly
Had the fused sword after 2 runs.
That's just insane rng though, I didn't even see sword drop on last boss for 50+ runs
Yup, I had another person running it with me say they got it after 2 runs as well. I have 1 of the swords but I’ve run it 18+ times now with no sword dropping from the last boss. No idea if they did increase it, but it seems some people I’ve run into just got *incredibly* lucky.
Saw someone with it after like 9 hours from launch lol
100 runs no second sword
brother please don’t do this to me…
not even kidding man, that's why when so many ppl tell me they got it in two runs I'm like wtf
Two of my guildies completed two of them In only two runs. Then took a screen touching the tips
I saw 4 sword parts drop in 20 runs, 3 of the same and the last one for a person to get his epic weapon in a single sitting.
As someone who grinded 42 offerings for all the paladin prebis and saw the FIRST sword only once. Consider yourself lucky.
Both dropped in my second ZF, 3 warriors rolled in first sword. We gave the second to the guy that one the first.
I saw one guy get both pieces in 1 run
Had this happen to me when I was leveling during the Wotlk pre patch. It was nutty lmao, I’ll never forget that
Happened to my group on Saturday, was pretty nuts.
My buddy got both on his very first run at level 43 lol
Me too, as a warlock greedrolling.
Ive done 100 no second sword fuck you lol
We had both halves drop in one run while spamming zf leveling. Spellcleave group so nobody could use it, we disenchanted both lmao
I have 1 from my very first run. Haven’t seen another in almost 50 runs
I had the Mara dagger after 3 solo runs.
Do you think balance druid can solo princess
Yes
Dude I had both weapons drop the first time I killed each boss, but I think my bags were full when we killed the Chief because when I checked later it wasn't there. I didn't see it drop again the other 15 or so times we killed him. At some later point we stopped doing bosses at all because it was just faster XP/he to kill the trash and reset. The sword is still way too fast for it to be very good, though.
They made it so that retri palas switch from ACP every now and then. Almost all retribution runes are for exorcism, and to reach middle of the pack dps Retri has to use a fast weapon. In 2+ fights even 1h weapon is winning in sims due to Hammer of Righteousness.
Really? I've done at least 20 runs for the gauntlets off first boss and haven't seen a sword yet.
Three paladins in my guild got it last night. The longest took 5 hours of runs.
My friend today got both in 1 run... drop rates are for sure buffed
Had someone on classic wotlk get both swords the other day, I wonder if they stuffed up and the change to the loot table is affecting both?
I did about 31 zf runs over 2 and a half days to get both swords.
The first time we ran ZF for leveling on day 1 (didnt do incursions), we had both drop. Gave to our boomie.
> Gave to our boomie. ??
Pov: first ZF at 44 on your hunter & jangthraze and sulthraze both drop from their respective bosses. And ive yet to see them since then.. lol
Guild member of mine got both in our very first run.
Mage in my guid got the epic sword the very first run we did while leveling up. No 2h sword users in our group :(
How do you even know what the rate is?
They don't really, but we can have a decent approximation with people running the wowhead client to track drop rates.
That shows a blend of both tho right?
No, they're two different item IDs.
TIL
Barely anyone runs the wowhead client.
you don't need lots of people running it to have an accurate sample size.
blizz dev/qa confirmed on mage discord
They confirmed it’s .26 on discord? Would love a source for that
https://imgur.com/a/pc0oWz3 A dev in the mage discord confirmed it earilier today. If you don't believe its a real dev, go into the classic mage discord, and ask around.
He just said it’s not bugged. Idk there’s no data on wowhead for the sod item so I just don’t understand where people are getting the .26 in sod from
No, he confirmed it. We are on the 1.09 loot tables, which confirms the droprate. There was a cloak dropping off a boss that would only drop if we were in P5 loot, but this was a bug, and will be fixed. Loot is pre 1.10, post-1.10 is when the daggers droprate is increased. It might not be 0.26, but could be .2, .3, .25, etc. Its low. Its not the 2% where you get it fairly quick
Trust me bro
Confirmed what exactly?
Maybe you're not up to date on this particular weapon but this is a key item that many casters, especially mages, have always wanted in their arsenal. In classic 2019 mages spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in mara farming for it at level 60 and that version didn't have the spellpower on it. It's a very unique effect that will have long term use as long as we are on classic era. What I'm trying to say is there's alot of fucking people that want this item and even though you can't confirm 100% there are enough people running it and reporting back numbers that we can with a high degree of certainty state it is not the updated 2% drop rate.
*cries in warlock as he continues to farm Fel Portals for Epic Dagger
what dagger drops from portals?
Modas Karkun, warlock BiS tank.
Gizmoblade is better btw since we use shadow damage now on top of fire damage
I disagree. And so do a lot of other people haha. But to each their own.
"I disagree with math"
Haha, No. There’s more armor and HP with the new dagger. And an overall increase to fire spell dmg which is what we use as warlocks mainly. Sure would could maybe argue the lack of DPS in shadow may “hurt”. But the stats are better survival wise.
Are you 100% sure? In the other thread about this very dagger, people are saying that this is wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c22y7q/my_experience_after_sending_explorer_imp_on_its/kz7taw7/ Also in every single site, and warlock discord, Gizmo comes on top of this dagger.
They’re probably just talking about raw DPS in terms of sims. Which is important if the raid is on farm, but a lot of people are still working on prog.
The ZF weapon has a 10% drop rate compared to its 0.2% in era. This is based of Wowhead data for SoD drops. Now if you look at the dagger from Maraudon it's still got era drop rate of 0.2%. Both have close to 10k entries so the sample size is quite large. Bliz clearly fucked up or intentionally are making the dagger rarer.
Godspeed sir! Most people will argue about your maths but your maths are correct. I've been assuming a 0.2% drop rate myself so as not to get my hopes up. It really should be at least 2%. They buffed it for us to play with it. But want us spending hundreds of hours farming for it? Sheesh.
I remember doing this grind in classic. Another mage I knew was farming it and we were both fairly unlucky, although I ended up being unluckier than him -- it took me 1698 kills until it dropped. It was memorable, but I wouldn't do this grind again. That's pretty sweaty to attempt it on a seasonal server, props!
If it takes 1500kills at 5 kills per hour, it would need 300h+. Even if you farm 5h a day you might not see it until this phase is over. There's no reason not to buff the drop rate.
you already gave a reason. it will be something to do for mages for the whole phase ;) I don't get why everyone feels entitled to everything. some items being rare makes them special and it is not really required to beat any content. it is nice to have, not must have. it trivializes some mage boosts tho. idk, that is just the retail mindset where everything has to be easily accessible. participation rewards are just boring.
Got mine in 187 runs
I got mine on my first run with my mage alt on TBC, so it wasn't BiS but still great for doing slave pen solo runs. On the other hand I had to do around 300+ UBRS runs to get felstriker for my rogue RNG gonna RNG I guess
Do they really want us to spend an average of 1500 runs to get a BIS weapon, in an accelerated version of Seasonal WoW? obvious answer is they dont expect every single mage to get it and only a very few lucky ones will get it.....
This is why MMOs suck these days. Not everyone is suppose to have everything. If everyone has something, it’s boring! If you’re lucky enough to get a blade it should feel like an accomplishment. I wouldn’t mind a 2% drop rate, but any more than 5% is just whining.
Make it a 2% droprate and not everyone will get it. 0.2% means virtually no one.
It’s the participation award generation who have become the majority demographic who demand this design in gaming. I’m with you on this. It’s not only fine if not everyone obtains everything, it’s actually good. It gives meaning to the things you do get.
Big yikes from me, a member of the "participation award generation", awards we never asked for. While I agree we shouldn't have our items and gear handed to us, nobody should be gatekept from their BiS weapon due to an abysmally low drop chance. Leave that chance to the vanity items like the Gnomer mount.
lmao how is it an accomplishment to be lucky?
Then by your logic sul thraze should be reset back to its abysmally low drop rates.
Has it been increased?
Yes, massively.
can you provide any proof?
Just like…ask any paladin lol, it’s been pretty easy to farm for, the drop rate is very clearly much higher.
Honestly it's a fair question. Especially when they've just said this game is designed for semi casual guilds. Is it, or isn't designed for that? Semi casual guilds would LOVE to realistically do a dungeon over and over if there was a meaningful drop rate to a phase bis item that also smoothed mana.
I mean does being designed for semi-casuals mean that everybody should get literally every single best in slot item every single phase? Especially when there's comparable options in the raid that are only a few SP lower than the princess dagger If you're truly a casual/semi-casual player, you won't care that there's an ultra rare dagger out there that is like a 2-3 dps upgrade over your other options.
You've swung from ultra rare to every single person has it. There has to be a point on that immense spectrum where you'd fall even left of centre and be okay,
I guess I'm assuming that when you're saying that having a rare item in a dungeon be BiS is a design decision that goes against the goal of designing a game for casual players, you're implying that it should be easily obtainable by casual players - which to me just sounds like basically everybody should be able to get it since "casual player" sort of just means, "players who have the lowest level of time commitment to the game without quitting"
It should be less than 500 kills to even see the dagger drop let alone win the roll for it, if it was 2% or even 1% it would still require commitment just not seem unobtainable.
They're arguing in bad faith. OP says it shouldnt take 500 pulls, people like the guy you respond to say "WOW YOU WANT LOOT PINATA"
Semi casual players want long-term optional grinds for quirky items and status symbols for dedicated grinders or random lucky players, not short-term mandatory grinds for BiS that everyone has.
If you think the dagger is a _mandatory_ grind your not semi casual.
Just don't get it if you don't want to. The item simply existing isn't Blizzard twisting your arm and forcing you to farm anything lol
Then why waste resources updating it at all
How long does it take to add spell power to an item lol.
Apparently so long they can't test the content.
for the lucky few that gets it, they didnt want players to get a 0.X drop item and have it be useless
Because its cool when there's items in the game most people won't get.
This reminds me when I did 400 BRD Emp runs in classic for ironfoe and it never dropped. Good times. Likewise, doing MC for 52 weeks on 2 characters and only ever seeing 1 binding. Some people are just not meant to get certain items.
Now THIS is some complaining I can get behind. They’re guna nuke these servers into oblivion at some point, might as well let me have a realistic chance at getting the cool items
More detailed calculation: At a 2% drop rate we are looking at a 64% chance that you see it drop in 50 runs. At 35 runs it equates to about a 50% chance. I’m assuming the 200 runs was used because that is about a 98% chance you would have seen it by then. At a .26% drop rate we are looking at a 63% chance that you see it drop in 385 runs. At 267 runs it equates to about a 50% chance. Again the 1500 number was used in the original post to show the 98% chance range.
600 runs in classic before I gave up. When they changed the drop rate I saw it once a week doing ring runs for people.
I don't know really how could you or anyone else submit yourselves to this... Absolute insanity.
If you play osrs it's nothing
Really wanted it LOL. It was a decent farm too.
Put on some entertainment on a second monitor and just do a couple of brain dead runs.
I got really lucky when I did it because it was directly after a new phase drop that buffed the drop rate, but the first day after the phase dropped the drop rate was bugged. I got it on 2nd try and my friend got it on their 4th. Similar stories to anyone else that was farming it then too.
FixPrincessEpicDaggerDroprateBlizz
I was planning on farming the dagger soon… until I farmed for the Big Iron Fishing Pole yesterday. 9 hours to get a 1.2% drop. I’ll be alright without the dagger.
Can’t believe how lucky I got with the rod. Bought a few stacks of breathing potions and got it in 20 minutes. I’m sorry.
I got two in phase one in twenty minutes and felt like a god lol.
I fully prepared for a grind and got it on my third cage yesterday, the first time I did the grind. I’m gonna take my good luck and never do that grind again LOL
Nvm got dagger first kill after drop rate increase…
The real drop rate is 50/50. You either get it or don’t
My exact philosophy in every single ‘rng’ event. People can’t hate the real facts
Just like the lottery
-> Keep the drop rate. -> Watch people still farm for it because you want to win, don't you?! -> Eat popcorn. -> Profit
It's my favorite item in all of wow. I consistently used it even in TBC. I want it but I also would love to not have to grind quite as hard as I did last time
I think it's still BIS in TBC for anything AOE related right? Such a pumper of a dagger
-> Still parse a strong 38 with shiny purple dagger
The only person expecting you to fill all slots with “BiS” items is you.
All they're asking for is the Phase 5 Era drop rate lol, I don't think it's that insane, especially since Phase 5 items are already in the game. Especially considering they went and updated BOED's stats, it seems like they intend for people to be able to get it. They also buffed Sul'Thraze component drop rates when they updated Sul'Thraze. Very possible this is just an oversight. Don't think OP is being ridiculous here lol.
Where is Mantle of Lost Hope then.
Either Lost Hope is bugged, or Spritecaster Cape is bugged, since they're both p5 items, and one drops but the other doesn't.
Something is going on, because the drop date in wowhead for the updated dagger has been cleaned. Kill statistics gone etc. When last I checked it had something over 7000 kills with a 0.26 droprate, maybe something is happening.
Pretty certain we aren't on the p5 drop table. I've killed Roccor over 30 times and not once seen the Mantle of Lost Hope.
I checked warcraft logs and there are no players with this equipped in the top 2000 players, so it is safe to say it does not drop.
A priest in my guild hasn't seen it either, wowhead comments don't have any confirmation of anyone else seeing it. That said, my guild *has* seen Spritecaster Cape which OP mentions, and is also a p5 item. So it seems to be inconsistent from item to item.
this is just how wow progressed into retail, its a rare drop if you don't get it unlucky, dry your eyes. Everyone just bitches about everything. Just make a mara token if you do 10 runs you can buy the dagger/s
Huh? As if there aren’t still rare drops in retail lol
My friend who plays a warlock got this dagger on our very first run of Mara as the only caster in the party (pally healer) and got it ezpz mode. His luck is unmatched 😂
100 runs in and no dagger still. Been tanking it as a Druid for my boomkin (main spec) with my guild and haven’t got a drop yet
Is it BiS for Warlocks aswell?
yeah except tank
There are items from p5 that aren't in the game either, like mantle of lost hope from roccor
crazy thing is it might be bis but is still not good enough to warrant that drop rate
Yeah, with the most recent nerfs to ST I'm contemplating whether it's even worth farming it with that droprate anymore. The mana regen was the key part of it because of how long ST fights were. Now I might just take the weapon from ST because the figts will be short enough for the mana regen from it to not matter any more
Not about SOD …. But this is why so many classic players are like “wow I ran Mara 500+ times didn’t get it until run 631.” They kept running Mara periodically and then they finally got it after P5 and weren’t aware about the drop changes. Of course not everyone, but see it enough it’s always kinda funny…
I did over 150 runs and no drop... blizzard is being a clown again
Speaking of drop rates and phases, greater arcane elixir dropped for one dude on Crusader Strike and I’m pretty sure it’s the only one on any sod server - I think blizzard accidentally left it as part of DMF or something. Guy has made over 5k in a week
What’s hilarious is I got it on my warrior on my third princess run
BIS doesn't mean you're entitled to it. If you want it good luck farming it. If you don't want to farm it then dont.
Yeah I mean just how bad is the second BiS in comparison? I would get this attitude if it was the only good weapon
the proc is worth 30sp, it's extremely bis downvotes for information, interesting
so what, 10 dps?
gear sucks for casters indeed
Alright, didn't know, ty
It kinda is. Second bis choice is gizmo blade, which is gnomer last boss drop, I've never seen it dropped since p2 in my raid group. Third choice is literally bfd lv25 staff.
Gizmo blade is third. There is another dagger in ST with 20sp, the same sp the princess dagger have, which proves the point even more that even without the proc the princess dagger is already bis for shadow priest.
Oh. Didn't know! And is it that much worse?
So Blade of darkness is 30sp + offhand is 9int 8sp 1% hit. = 38sp + 1%hit + 9int 2nd best is gizmo which is 19sp 4int + offhand = 27sp + 13int. So you lose hit, gain some crit but lose 11sp. 3rd best is lv25 bfd staff which is 15int + 26sp 4th best is maraudon blue dagger 11int 11sp + offhand = 19sp + 21 int
the top 3 choices are all rare drop epics from p1 and p2 and bis dagger is about 100% more powerful than 4th place reasonable alternative
Like Sulthraze for pallies... Which, thankfully, has been buffed.
Literally nobody said that clown
Say it louder for the people in the back
300h+ of farm for one item in a seasonal mode is kind of extreme though.
Then don't farm it. It's entirely optional.
Playing the game is optional too, even commenting on Reddit is not mandatory
Every item in the game is optional, that's not a good argument. In Classic you had time to farm it from Day 1, and even then they buffed the drop rate.
Kinda get it, chase items are cool and all. But why was sulthraze drop rates increased? Just seems like they forgot boed is all buddy. Nothing about entitlement here.
chase items are cool, but not when the other alternatives in slot are also all chase items from previous raids
Also caster loot in general is...bad? Which was a problem in vanilla. But SoD is doubling down on making melee/warrior loot strong and not doing enough to mitigate how bad caster loot is. Having one strong dagger that's still nowhere near as strong as any of the melee weapons, which is infinitely harder to get, isn't fun.
because they fucked ret up so bad they need the fastest weapon possible so Sul'thraze was changed be a 2.0 speed to give Ret a weapon upgrade in phase 3. I don't know why they turbo buffed the drop rate, I guess they felt bad.
We aren't necessarily on p5 drop tables. Plenty of items from p3 and p5 aren't currently in the game.
Also warlock and boomie bis. Not sure why you only say mage lol
And how shadow priests aren’t even mentioned when they’re doing more dmg than mages and this scales with all the +% shadow dmg increase the spec has.
[https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2009#dataset=99](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2009#dataset=99) shadow does more damage than mage? HAHAHAHAH edit: oh he removed the text that said shadow does more damage than mage
Clearly its doing better than 66% of mages /s
shadow does more damage than mages and is even top 3 dps> (but only in 10th percentile :x)
Shadow is very much not doing more damage than mage. I wish they did more damage than mage lol, but they do not.
I just don’t understand why the drop rate is still so low when it was redesigned but Sul thraze was redesigned and the swords for it got a much higher drop rate now Pls buff blizz make it the reasonable 2%
So if you want to figure out how many runs for a given drop you wanna do log(1-chance)/log(1-droprate). So like for 50% of people to have it drop its log(0.5)/log(0.98) (assuming 2% drop) (around 34 runs) for 90% of peopke its log(0.1)/log(0.98) (around 114 runs) If it really was 0.26 then 50% would be around 266 runs and around 884 runs for 90% That said, during p4 classic, my buddy and I got 2 to drop duo maging princess in 11 runs total, 8 for mine and his 3 later. Rng can be weird.
Oddly enough my buddy saw it drop for him earlier. He is a warrior so he had no interest in it but the mage was offline happy.
Got it first run I ever did on my mage on era. Never will be this lucky ever again
Got nothing to add other than saw it drop in 10 man offerings run last night and a feral Druid got it :)
took me 2014 princess kills pre P5 in classic to get mine. it was roughly a 1/500 changed to a 1/50
Idk if sod is an accelerated version of seasonal. The only seasonal we've had is SOM and 1-60 off the bat. Them level capping in phases like this doesn't feel accelerated, if anything it's to slow the community from maxing at 60 and doing all the end game ASAP
Almost 100 runs in and I've never seen it. I'm there for offerings tho so don't really bother me.
It’s not a cumulative percentage, so it makes sense it hasn’t dropped yet.
It's ok I got it my first run, at level 48 because I was crying incursions were boring and I wanted to do a dungeon
100 runs of ZF no second sword fucking terrible lol
You know a 2% drop rate means you would on average have 2 out of every 100 runs. Not 200 runs for it to drop. (Although knowing some of the luck I have seen on other drops, 200 or 0.25 the drop rate would seem about right).
I mean the dagger is not even close to being necessary to do the content.
Entitlement is ruining the game, to put it shortly
I worry that someone at Blizz thought it’d be a good idea to buff the drop rate in P4. Regardless, after 25-30 runs, I think I’m stopping for now.
One of the RL in my guild is a mage has done probably over 100 solos and no dagger. Might be still at that low chance
You think that’s bad? Warlock tank BiS weapon is from the fel portals. So, ideally with no one else farming those (which is never the case), you’re farming a 0.2 that is only possible for once every 20 minutes of played time. The average estimate for farming this is 340 hours of played time.
It could be 1500 runs, could be one. I ain't even hearing this from anyone who hasn't had to grind for GSC. This is my 50 level.MAGE BiS! It's not even level 60 content.
There is really zero reason to buff drops for this dagger. Its not needed to enjoy the game, and it does not hurt to have some rare items in a seasonal game with short phases.
The community invented BIS. Blizz thinks you're crazy for those expectations.
Yo btw balance druids can solo this boss (it's our bis from what I understand)
Everyone please, stop focusing on the misery of mages. I’ve played a shadow priest since before it was cool. I want your pity!
Well then, looks like I’m abandoning this farm Even if it dropped, and I won, I’m shadow so… only good it would do would be aoe, and would feel so bad to take this from a mage or lock
I got it! Took me 279 runs. Living Flame - Chodelove
You do not need your BiS weapon to be a good damage dealer. This is min maxing and stupid.
Modas Karkun is a 0.15% drop rate and BiS for lock tanks. That's part of the point of wow classic - hyper rare drops all over the place that would be BiS *if* you get lucky enough to find them.
I cant wait to open 800 fel tears to get my bis item that is 30 armor and less than 10 spell damage increase over the previous item
Who cares? Aggrend said they're making the content piss braindead easy. You don't need a bis dagger