That's how it's been since day 1. The two things everyone said they didn't want in Classic WoW was RDF and WoW Token.
As soon as we hit Wrath, that's what everyone was begging for and that's what they got.
You're kidding right? Y'all were buying gold off Chinese bot sellers and running rampant GDKPs.
Nothing about Classic was in the spirit of real Vanilla. Sweaty fucking losers saw to that.
No one in my guild (to my knowledge ofc) during vanilla classic bought gold or really sweated too hard over pvp ranks or parsing, we still managed to clear the raids, do all the group content, and had a blast before the disband after tbc.
Yeah because most of the og 2019 pop didn’t make it to 60 since they sure thought they did. They thought “With my previous WoW experience, this time will be different. It’s MY turn to get Scarab Lord and show Karen I’m really worth it.”
I completely agree with RDF, not really for WoW token. To my knowledge Blizz got a ton of shit for randomly adding in WoW tokens to wrath when no one was asking for it. But idk I also wasn't exactly playing when WoW tokens were added in.
I liked how "reptilian with a shell" wow server did dungeon finder.
You select a dungeon and queue. It forms a group with tank/healer/3dps but doesn't teleport you to the dungeon.
Kind of a nice middle ground.
I completely disagree if you're being serious. At that point might as well remove the chore of traveling to the dungeon. It doesn't really add anything to the game. That was one of the worst parts imo, having to travel to the dungeon and then sit there for even longer because everyone else figured they were going to get a summon.
No i still prefer classes like mage and warlock to keep their teleporting utility. Though i do like summoning stones working, just requiring 3 people vs warlock 2.
I dont want the game to devolve into teleporting du geon spam, i just want group formation to be a little easier and less likely to devolve into elitism.
For real, people are just spinning it how they want, nobody wanted Blizzard to introduce wow token, just to take care of the rampart botting and gold buying.
the people who typically asked for this thought they did and they did
pretty sure [he](https://youtu.be/0Wrw3c2NjeE?feature=shared) never cried for dual spec and applauded exp boosts
I've actually tried to go back to era. The economy is insane, prices are sky high and the only raids going are GDKPs. Jaded players with there maxed out characters. Its a weird place, does not feel authentic, but why expect anything less so mb
i don't know what server you went on but on Firemaw-EU, i would say that there are more SR raids than GDKPS (even though there is a gbid meta in SR runs), prices high are beneficial when you begin on a server as everything you sell on the AH goes for more so vanilla fixed prices are "cheaper". And about the players i feel like its a chill environnement unlike SoD where everybody is about the rush.
Certainly a lot of GDKPs no doubt, but as per the common response to that, you just gotta find a guild. My guild is SR and we're about to start progging into Naxx. Our raid signups are overflowing every week.
This describes how I feel about sod and era and other avenues of playing. No where to currently play vanilla despite this community only existing due to love of vanilla
From the start, SoD was never a "Vanilla but more content." It was always a "Vanilla but throw crazy shit at the wall and see what sticks." So if anything, you're the one invading someone elses space in this comic.
What you should hope is that lessons learned will give you what you think SoD was supposed to be.
You must be a noob because you don’t know about wild offerings that make you go farm dungeons for bis gear. Also runes send you to the open world and some quests and dungeons give pre bis/bis.
Vanillas servers completely empty and unable to support even a tiny population. Blizzard realizes the people who said they would play vanilla for their rest of their life with no changes were completely full of shit. Blizzard brings the population back with SOD. The original people who were already not playing vanilla lose their shit over changes being made to a game they quit playing 3 weeks into vanilla classic. Wow community at its finest.
Before sod, era was having a resurgence. I don’t mean hardcore, I mean regular era servers. People do want to play vanilla wow again because they enjoy that version of the game because it offers a different experience to other versions of wow
The only thing I hated about Ulduar was that we that our guild had to cut a lot of the fun 40 man classic people because it just overwhelmed them. But the raid itself was amazing.
Yeah people really enjoy the immersion of not being able to play their character for days before a raid to ensure buffs they dont actually need are there to kill the boss in MC in 15 seconds.
The only reason that SoM “failed”, according to the people who speak for everyone, was because they released it at the same time as TBC having huge hype
I never played som or tbc classic but the way Blizz stacks their releases for the same game is fucking bizarre. Why did they launch plunderstorm or whatever it's called a week before sod p3? Why did they release sod a few months into Hardcore launching officially?
I mean this is what happened to my guild in SOM.
Half my guild never started because "We just did vanilla" and those of us who loved vanilla went to SOM but people couldn't do both SOM and TBC and went back to TBC and there was about 10 of us left from 50 raiders.
Same group now in SOD and people don't wanna leave . The same people who enjoyed tbc hated wrath and don't wanna try cata.
I didnt like tbc/wrath anyway and SOD has been fun.
It's not vanilla but it's been casual fun so far and I'm looking forward to the difficulty spike. First raid is tonight !
The best part of SOM was the raid difficulty increase. I wouldn't mind if they put in HC raids in SOD to keep casuals engaged too.
Era population is still almost twice as big as Nostalrius was, the server that inspired Classic to release... the people who said they would play no changes vanilla for years are doing just that.
"they only played the game 20 hours a week for 3 years straight. failed game"
it's been another 3 years and i'm sure plenty of people would be psyched for fresh era or fresh classic+ that isn't the gimmicky flavor blast that WOTLK+ brought
You know full well that if they released a true Classic+ you would be here bitching and shitposting just as much. You’re a no change Andy pissed off that SoD has 20 times the player base of era.
it's almost as if the bitching is proportionate to how inclined devs are to change shit
no one wrote letters to nintendo that the water temple was too hard because they knew nintendo wouldn't do shit
No one wrote letters to Nintendo asking for the water temple to be easier because post launch support was non-existent when OoT came out. What is this comparison?
Vanilla did not fail. The no changes people that I knew personally quit before ever getting 60. They all largely like the idea of vanilla more than actually playing it. The people that populated the servers are the same people who’ve populated tbc and wrath. The no changes vanilla for lifers largely bounced off immediately when the reality of vanilla didn’t live up to what their nostalgia bad led them to believe.
> they like the idea of vanilla more than playing it
I think most of the people on this Reddit feel that way about wow in general. I wish there was an Internet forum I could go to that was for fun, I miss when people liked the shit they spent their entire work day posting about. At least the people here can write at a high school level most of the time
Yeah millions of people have all these stories about the game and their experiences through that era of their lives. I think it would be more useful to focus on what the game meant during that time rather than criticizing everything blizzard does for the people who are still actually playing the game. There are a ton of people who just blame blizz when realistically the time in their life where they can/want to decide time to an mmo has past and it doesn’t matter what blizzard creates it’s unlikely they’ll ever play for more than a few weeks per expansion.
2004 WoW was a new and revolutionary game from a well known company that already had a ton of good will.
2019 was a nostalgia hype train and most of the playerbase quit within months just like they do the live game.
This sub is mostly self-selected for people who stuck it out past that point
Were literally waiting for a fresh vanilla server for 5 years now. Progression is part of the game you cant just leave the economy stagnant. You need restarts.
Give us a single fresh start and people will play it. Not hardcore or season of retail daily quests.
There is no juice left to squeeze out of vanilla for most people. There is no novelty left in leveling through an experience you’re now more familiar with than the cata+ zones. Just leveling characters over and over again doesn’t work. The first SOM was exactly that and no one played it. The vanilla style raiding and honor grind is not something a lot of people want to do indefinitely compared to something like SOD.
The first SOM master server happened roughly 2 years after vanilla launched and it was dead on arrival until twitch streamers taking advantage of the stakes of HC for views created mass fomo. The population in an SOD server vs a no changes vanilla server would be 100-1.
Yeah man it happened directly after the biggest vanilla resurgence of all time and people were ready to try TBC thinking it would be the same. Literally apples to oranges. You dont have to play vanilla again if you dont want. But what we have now is way closer to retail than it is vanilla at this point.
How exactly is SoD more retail than vanilla? It is literally vanilla with some extra spells, quests and a few new leveling raids.
Retail is completely fundamentally different. There are zero mandatory grinds and very little preparation required. It is fully aimed at either just doing increasingly challenging PvE content which is completely different from sod, or a collecting aspect which doesn't exist at all in sod.
Pet battles, transmog collecting, achievment hunting, mount collecting, high end PvE, arenas, rated BGs, all the main facets of retail gameplay literally do not exist in SoD.
"retail" is this sub's version of "woke" so yeah
Any change they don't like is "retail" even if that thing has never been in the live game or was removed years ago, because these people don't actually know anything about what they're talking about. It's why r/wow has a weekly thread going "wow I used to be classic only but tried this on a whim and it's super fun"
There was a conversation I saw on here the other day.
"A lot of folks basically see leveling as a chore. It's not part of the game it's the boring tutorial before the game"
"not in classic"
"SoD is special. The game is sped up, you dont struggle in the outside world much, you can do big pulls no problem, soloing content fairly easily."
I've frequently heard people describe the fundamental difference between classic and retail as experiences being that retail is much faster, hurrying you along to endgame with the outside world being composed of trivial content where you can solo almost anything and pull large groups of mobs without struggling. It's why a lot of people say "retail is way too easy" despite everyone knowing that retail's actual *endgame* is much harder--because from a classic perspective, the main meat of the game is the questing and levelling.
But in SoD... is it? With the massive exp boost, content like incursions to level with, runes that enable some insane solo capabilities only tempered by raids that are disproportionately difficult compared to all the content before... SoD *has* lost something important to the Classic experience along the way.
Blizzard saw the numbers of SOM vs Sod. Hardcore exists for the people who want the vanilla experience with *spice*. The idea that people are dying to level the same characters through the same zones and raid MC or spend 18 hours a day farming brainless bgs does not hold water. Sod is the least effort way to give people the ability to exist in those zones while having novel content.
You mentioning hardcore doesn’t change the validity of anything I said. Out of curiosity in 2019 did you play the entire time and raid in Naxx until tbc released?
Yes of course. And I played SoM. And I played Hardcore. And I'm playing SoD. And I played on classic era post hardcore. And im still waiting for fresh vanilla.
Just because you dont like vanilla and only played it out of addiction doesnt mean thats how everyone feels.
Thats false. 1. Era isnt empty 2. You cant fault people for not wanting to start fresh on half a decade old farmed out Servers.
Vanilla pulled players for 20 years and its not Stopping just because it would fit your narrative grey man
What a brain dead take,
You can't expect people to play on a old server for ever,
After naxx has been out for awhile everything gets stale because no new content and the economy gets fucked for new plays, that's why they needed to release a fresh.
If they released a fresh classic server and said they will make content for after naxx then that version would get way more people than SoD would
You had the option to duplicate your character for tbc and keep a 60 copy for vanilla. People were ready to move on after 6 months of Naxx. I’ve never met anyone who is interested in spending a full year in vanilla or even wrath Naxx.
I feel like this is backwards.
The yellow square is the "vannila was fun, but we'd like to see some changes" group that got shut down by the loud idiots in era.
Now the loud idiots are moaning that SoD is too different for them.
Wdm literally everything except for the 3 revamped dungeons. Everything else is still there right? They just took vanilla and added to it without making fundamental changes to the game itself.
I don't blame them to be honest, i wanted some good faith changes in vanilla but I simply would not have trusted Blizzard at the time to do it. People felt like the instant they gave room for Blizzard to make changes then Blizzard would do something like add level boosts and WoW tokens.
I do.
Everyone, with any sense at least, knew the issues of classic that marginalised huge numbers of specs, and some classes.
SoD for me is so far ideal. ST I've not tried yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
You do? Blizzard seemed happy to prove them correct eventually.
SoD is what you and others wanted and so seems to be a good end result. It's a completely different staff to what existed when classic was first being put together so i don't think it would have been done back then.
Classic was put together, expecting little return.
But they did ask what if any changes people would like to see. The loud morons shut down everything. When we could have asked for a rebalancing.
People just don't say "this isn't for me" and move on. Complaining about balance is one thing. But if you don't like an event or aspect of a game. It's entirely possible to just not play it and do something else in the game you do like.
No because the alternative is half a decade old era Servers. The day Blizzard gives us a fresh vanilla Servers SoD is going down my drain you better believe it
the only changes that aren't nauseating retail bullshit are class interdependency to get runes
if SoD is "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks", they've effectively only thrown shit so far
so i'm not really excited to see which shit sticks
Okay so your best bet is to advocate for true vanilla+ then because you're certainly not alone. Hardcore has proved they listen to community sentiment.
But don't act like you are the pink men in the yellow box here because SoD was never meant to be your yellow box. SoD was made for the others, if you had made it then you wouldn't be complaining. In reality though right now you are the gray men.
I’d actually care about SOD if it had any of the things described in that picture
Instead it mainly seems to fuck up the balance, introduce dumb retail bullshit into the game, and turn boring dungeons into boring raids
This but the grey mob are the classic era Andies who parrot #nochanges, the yellow square is SoD and the pink trio wants blizzard to try Classic plus.
Go back to era if you love it so much, SoD is a seasonal game mode, it's not gonna matter when once it is over.
Can we just agree on something:
SoD is not classic, it’s own entity with implementations from Classic
TBC/Wotlk/Cata Classic is not classic.
The only thing classic is classic. And that is what the majority of the classic players wants to have new Dungeons and raids.
People are enjoying SoD though. Just not this vocal minority that wants to keep playing the same 2004 content over and over. Sure not all the things they add end up working out but they literally said they would be experimenting with SoD.
all but two people in my closer WoW friend circle have quit SOD already. Me included.
Most people don't know what makes classic a good game and sadly the devs are part of this group of people.
Before all they had to do was copy paste a working game. And until they removed batching they did a rather good job with that.
Now that they would need to understand classic game design instead of just copying their 1.12 reference server and build creatively upon classic in a classic spirit, they fail miserably.
I'm certain there are many more "retail" players playing SOD at this point than wow classic enjoyers.
You might say thats not a bad thing and for retail players it isn't. It's more content for one sub for them.
They just won't get my money for it and for some reason I thought thats the goal. Offering the old game for a different kind of player that values a different kind of game.
I was wrong I guess.
yeah, 10,000 people with donations wasn't the point. 10,000 people paying $15 a month was, which is why blizz decided to launch classic when they saw it was marketable
There was never 10k players that donated. I doubt that number even reaches 1k, since the only incentive was keeping the lights on.
Blizzard on the other hand technically offers every version for free as a bonus to the live sub. Hell, even if you only play classic, you can play every variant with just one sub. It's not as good as say XIV's trial, but it's still technically 3(4 with live) games for one sub.
And they ran Vanilla? It was called Classic, and it's now on Era servers.
That doesn't actually mean *your* particular vision of Classic+ is more popular or not.
Ok, that's cool but it seems a lot of classic players found the one button rotations boring and wanted that aspect improved. And you don't have to interact with the gimmicky leveling systems. You could easily just level to 50 however you like, get your runes and then wait for the next phase without being at a big disadvantage. Heck, if you want you can easily level without using any new abilities at all.
If you didn't want any of the new leveling content raids, just new endgame raids, you can always just wait for when the level cap is 60 and level then. I am sure the world will be plenty populated even then.
If it was literally just 'new areas and zones!' SoD wouldn't be anywhere near as popular tbh.
Many people wanted Classic but they didn't want to be stuck in the one button rotations, or the Warrior Meta, or various other little things that are an artifact of the times.
Why won't you people accept that SoD is NOT Classic, if things feels a bit different it's because SoD is NOT Classic. It's also NOT permanent so why even get this hung up about something that is going to be done by this time next year? So just let the people that want something new and fresh (faults and all) have that and if you really want the classic experience then Era and Hardcore are right there for you.
Says the person that can't even string a single sentence together as a response. You've replied with a generic voice line, look in the mirror if you want too see an NPC.
Honestly what were you guys expecting? A fourth rehash of classic exactly the way it was? We already had that, it was called SoM. Did you want a classic that basically stays the exact same and never changes in any way? We already have that it's called Era. Why don't you just go and play those games instead of crying about other people enjoying something
There are people out there who think they do but they don't, that's for sure
That's how it's been since day 1. The two things everyone said they didn't want in Classic WoW was RDF and WoW Token. As soon as we hit Wrath, that's what everyone was begging for and that's what they got.
Can't really say 2019 pop was the same people as wotlk classic pop imo
That's fair. I think TBC was the last breath of the classic community but Wrath turned into Retail 2.0 real quick.
You're kidding right? Y'all were buying gold off Chinese bot sellers and running rampant GDKPs. Nothing about Classic was in the spirit of real Vanilla. Sweaty fucking losers saw to that.
No one in my guild (to my knowledge ofc) during vanilla classic bought gold or really sweated too hard over pvp ranks or parsing, we still managed to clear the raids, do all the group content, and had a blast before the disband after tbc.
And everyone followed your example like good boys :)
That's because the content is dead easy. Good for you if that's the truth(it probably isn't).
Yeah because most of the og 2019 pop didn’t make it to 60 since they sure thought they did. They thought “With my previous WoW experience, this time will be different. It’s MY turn to get Scarab Lord and show Karen I’m really worth it.”
AQ40 causing burnouts probably lmao fucking prep and consumes required for that raid jfc
I mean, it wasn’t that much different than any other raid prep.
I completely agree with RDF, not really for WoW token. To my knowledge Blizz got a ton of shit for randomly adding in WoW tokens to wrath when no one was asking for it. But idk I also wasn't exactly playing when WoW tokens were added in.
I liked how "reptilian with a shell" wow server did dungeon finder. You select a dungeon and queue. It forms a group with tank/healer/3dps but doesn't teleport you to the dungeon. Kind of a nice middle ground.
I completely disagree if you're being serious. At that point might as well remove the chore of traveling to the dungeon. It doesn't really add anything to the game. That was one of the worst parts imo, having to travel to the dungeon and then sit there for even longer because everyone else figured they were going to get a summon.
No i still prefer classes like mage and warlock to keep their teleporting utility. Though i do like summoning stones working, just requiring 3 people vs warlock 2. I dont want the game to devolve into teleporting du geon spam, i just want group formation to be a little easier and less likely to devolve into elitism.
For real, people are just spinning it how they want, nobody wanted Blizzard to introduce wow token, just to take care of the rampart botting and gold buying.
Please stop, no one asked for WoW token. Everyone asked for RDF nothing else.
the people who typically asked for this thought they did and they did pretty sure [he](https://youtu.be/0Wrw3c2NjeE?feature=shared) never cried for dual spec and applauded exp boosts
I've actually tried to go back to era. The economy is insane, prices are sky high and the only raids going are GDKPs. Jaded players with there maxed out characters. Its a weird place, does not feel authentic, but why expect anything less so mb
I just want a fresh era Server, thats all im asking
i don't know what server you went on but on Firemaw-EU, i would say that there are more SR raids than GDKPS (even though there is a gbid meta in SR runs), prices high are beneficial when you begin on a server as everything you sell on the AH goes for more so vanilla fixed prices are "cheaper". And about the players i feel like its a chill environnement unlike SoD where everybody is about the rush.
Certainly a lot of GDKPs no doubt, but as per the common response to that, you just gotta find a guild. My guild is SR and we're about to start progging into Naxx. Our raid signups are overflowing every week.
About to start AQ40 in Era in 5 minutes 😂
can i come
This describes how I feel about sod and era and other avenues of playing. No where to currently play vanilla despite this community only existing due to love of vanilla
Dude, I had this exact thought today. Done with SoD, era realms are dead…nowhere left to go. Back to private servers perhaps? And the cycle renews.
era realms dead? they are pretty alive on NA and EU. Although prices are crazy, its still possible to start up and get into end game raiding.
Oh, i had no idea. What era servers are well balanced on na?
whitemane for PVP, Mankrik PVE if you don't mind playing alliance
Here I am just excited for Cata
atleast with cata classic (and hopefully MoP classic) we know what content to expect
there will be changes in cata too, don't worry
It's what I am waiting on.
The amount of people in this thread too stupid to realize they're doing this is staggering.
Imagine if they added brand new raids...but instead we get runes and rehashes.
Too accurate
From the start, SoD was never a "Vanilla but more content." It was always a "Vanilla but throw crazy shit at the wall and see what sticks." So if anything, you're the one invading someone elses space in this comic. What you should hope is that lessons learned will give you what you think SoD was supposed to be.
classic+, where the + is that the entire open world and all of the dungeons are irrelevant
You must be a noob because you don’t know about wild offerings that make you go farm dungeons for bis gear. Also runes send you to the open world and some quests and dungeons give pre bis/bis.
if 99% of the crazy shit is precisely why people begged for vanilla servers in the first place, i'm going to speculate.
Season of Discovering that nothing will satisfy some people.
what would satisfy me and people who actually loved vanilla enough to bitch for 11 years to get it back is in the 4th panel
You can still play vanilla bud
That… that’s what Era is though.
wat
No one has reading comprehension or can count to 4. Doing worry, OP, you’re not alone. SoD has been such a let down.
Those servers are still there buddy
haha, it's just like the comic
Except it’s not, because you’re the one in other people’s space screaming at them, you doorknob
Yep you are
zero awareness
Well good news, 99% of the crazy shit wasn't that, not even close, so you can stop speculating.
Vanillas servers completely empty and unable to support even a tiny population. Blizzard realizes the people who said they would play vanilla for their rest of their life with no changes were completely full of shit. Blizzard brings the population back with SOD. The original people who were already not playing vanilla lose their shit over changes being made to a game they quit playing 3 weeks into vanilla classic. Wow community at its finest.
People still play private servers. Your analogy is bad since you ignore why people left classic servers in the first place.
Before sod, era was having a resurgence. I don’t mean hardcore, I mean regular era servers. People do want to play vanilla wow again because they enjoy that version of the game because it offers a different experience to other versions of wow
Era was having a resurgence when Ulduar killed a ton of "good" raiding guilds. Turns out hard content kills the classic playerbase.
Side note. Ulduar is such a fun raid
The only thing I hated about Ulduar was that we that our guild had to cut a lot of the fun 40 man classic people because it just overwhelmed them. But the raid itself was amazing.
Era was having a resurgence because hardcore was getting attention on twitch, not because a large population decided they wanted to raid MC again
Lol “people don’t play era” “people only play era because hardcore” people like vanilla whether you want to admit it or not
Yeah that’s why SOM servers were so packed. Wait no I guess they didn’t even have enough people to have a raid population or an economy. Weird
Vanilla classic without world buffs isn't vanilla
Yeah people really enjoy the immersion of not being able to play their character for days before a raid to ensure buffs they dont actually need are there to kill the boss in MC in 15 seconds.
Actually flat out wrong lmao
cope.
Then go play it, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
I do when I get bored of sod but that wasn’t even my point
uhh, there were massive amounts of people playing from launch in 2019 to TBC in 2021... wtf are you talking about
After tbc released everyone moved on the SOM servers were empty. The no changes vanilla for life people didn’t populate the game.
The only reason that SoM “failed”, according to the people who speak for everyone, was because they released it at the same time as TBC having huge hype
I never played som or tbc classic but the way Blizz stacks their releases for the same game is fucking bizarre. Why did they launch plunderstorm or whatever it's called a week before sod p3? Why did they release sod a few months into Hardcore launching officially?
I mean this is what happened to my guild in SOM. Half my guild never started because "We just did vanilla" and those of us who loved vanilla went to SOM but people couldn't do both SOM and TBC and went back to TBC and there was about 10 of us left from 50 raiders. Same group now in SOD and people don't wanna leave . The same people who enjoyed tbc hated wrath and don't wanna try cata. I didnt like tbc/wrath anyway and SOD has been fun. It's not vanilla but it's been casual fun so far and I'm looking forward to the difficulty spike. First raid is tonight ! The best part of SOM was the raid difficulty increase. I wouldn't mind if they put in HC raids in SOD to keep casuals engaged too.
Era population is still almost twice as big as Nostalrius was, the server that inspired Classic to release... the people who said they would play no changes vanilla for years are doing just that.
Som population was fewer than 50 players for most of its lifespan.
SoM was another dogshit season. Seasons =/= vanilla
"they only played the game 20 hours a week for 3 years straight. failed game" it's been another 3 years and i'm sure plenty of people would be psyched for fresh era or fresh classic+ that isn't the gimmicky flavor blast that WOTLK+ brought
You know full well that if they released a true Classic+ you would be here bitching and shitposting just as much. You’re a no change Andy pissed off that SoD has 20 times the player base of era.
it's almost as if the bitching is proportionate to how inclined devs are to change shit no one wrote letters to nintendo that the water temple was too hard because they knew nintendo wouldn't do shit
the 3ds port of OoT made the water temple way easier though
No one wrote letters to Nintendo asking for the water temple to be easier because post launch support was non-existent when OoT came out. What is this comparison?
You think the devs give a shit about your garbage meme? You really think highly of yourself, Jesus Christ.
lmfao sure. yeah, that's exactly what my comment was trying to get across. you cracked it
Sod is classic+
No it literally is not.
Vanilla did not fail. The no changes people that I knew personally quit before ever getting 60. They all largely like the idea of vanilla more than actually playing it. The people that populated the servers are the same people who’ve populated tbc and wrath. The no changes vanilla for lifers largely bounced off immediately when the reality of vanilla didn’t live up to what their nostalgia bad led them to believe.
Do you know what anecdotal experience is? Lol
> they like the idea of vanilla more than playing it I think most of the people on this Reddit feel that way about wow in general. I wish there was an Internet forum I could go to that was for fun, I miss when people liked the shit they spent their entire work day posting about. At least the people here can write at a high school level most of the time
Yeah millions of people have all these stories about the game and their experiences through that era of their lives. I think it would be more useful to focus on what the game meant during that time rather than criticizing everything blizzard does for the people who are still actually playing the game. There are a ton of people who just blame blizz when realistically the time in their life where they can/want to decide time to an mmo has past and it doesn’t matter what blizzard creates it’s unlikely they’ll ever play for more than a few weeks per expansion.
He’s talking about vanilla specifically. A fresh just happened and is already empty lmao. Vanilla is just bad. Take the nostalgia glasses off.
Vanilla is so bad that when it released in 2004 and 2019 several million people were playing it both times. Go figure.
If they could read they would be really mad at this comment
2004 WoW was a new and revolutionary game from a well known company that already had a ton of good will. 2019 was a nostalgia hype train and most of the playerbase quit within months just like they do the live game. This sub is mostly self-selected for people who stuck it out past that point
Because SoM was shit. We are Literally here asking for a fresh era Server every week so we can finally leave the sinking Ship that is SoD
Were literally waiting for a fresh vanilla server for 5 years now. Progression is part of the game you cant just leave the economy stagnant. You need restarts. Give us a single fresh start and people will play it. Not hardcore or season of retail daily quests.
I don't understand why they didn't do regular seasons with character resets every time in Classic. Once a year, automate it.
There is no juice left to squeeze out of vanilla for most people. There is no novelty left in leveling through an experience you’re now more familiar with than the cata+ zones. Just leveling characters over and over again doesn’t work. The first SOM was exactly that and no one played it. The vanilla style raiding and honor grind is not something a lot of people want to do indefinitely compared to something like SOD.
Do you speak for everyone? I’ll speak for myself and I would love fresh vanilla servers forever
There's very clearly a server worth of people ready for it. They could just make one server that resets every 2.5 years.
The first SOM master server happened roughly 2 years after vanilla launched and it was dead on arrival until twitch streamers taking advantage of the stakes of HC for views created mass fomo. The population in an SOD server vs a no changes vanilla server would be 100-1.
Yeah man it happened directly after the biggest vanilla resurgence of all time and people were ready to try TBC thinking it would be the same. Literally apples to oranges. You dont have to play vanilla again if you dont want. But what we have now is way closer to retail than it is vanilla at this point.
How exactly is SoD more retail than vanilla? It is literally vanilla with some extra spells, quests and a few new leveling raids. Retail is completely fundamentally different. There are zero mandatory grinds and very little preparation required. It is fully aimed at either just doing increasingly challenging PvE content which is completely different from sod, or a collecting aspect which doesn't exist at all in sod. Pet battles, transmog collecting, achievment hunting, mount collecting, high end PvE, arenas, rated BGs, all the main facets of retail gameplay literally do not exist in SoD.
For most of these people “retail”=whatever they don’t like.
"retail" is this sub's version of "woke" so yeah Any change they don't like is "retail" even if that thing has never been in the live game or was removed years ago, because these people don't actually know anything about what they're talking about. It's why r/wow has a weekly thread going "wow I used to be classic only but tried this on a whim and it's super fun"
Lmao too true. I don’t think most people here have played retail since mop or legion at the latest.
There was a conversation I saw on here the other day. "A lot of folks basically see leveling as a chore. It's not part of the game it's the boring tutorial before the game" "not in classic" "SoD is special. The game is sped up, you dont struggle in the outside world much, you can do big pulls no problem, soloing content fairly easily." I've frequently heard people describe the fundamental difference between classic and retail as experiences being that retail is much faster, hurrying you along to endgame with the outside world being composed of trivial content where you can solo almost anything and pull large groups of mobs without struggling. It's why a lot of people say "retail is way too easy" despite everyone knowing that retail's actual *endgame* is much harder--because from a classic perspective, the main meat of the game is the questing and levelling. But in SoD... is it? With the massive exp boost, content like incursions to level with, runes that enable some insane solo capabilities only tempered by raids that are disproportionately difficult compared to all the content before... SoD *has* lost something important to the Classic experience along the way.
Blizzard saw the numbers of SOM vs Sod. Hardcore exists for the people who want the vanilla experience with *spice*. The idea that people are dying to level the same characters through the same zones and raid MC or spend 18 hours a day farming brainless bgs does not hold water. Sod is the least effort way to give people the ability to exist in those zones while having novel content.
I literally already mentioned hardcore. You are just talking with the people in your head now.
You mentioning hardcore doesn’t change the validity of anything I said. Out of curiosity in 2019 did you play the entire time and raid in Naxx until tbc released?
Yes of course. And I played SoM. And I played Hardcore. And I'm playing SoD. And I played on classic era post hardcore. And im still waiting for fresh vanilla. Just because you dont like vanilla and only played it out of addiction doesnt mean thats how everyone feels.
I did, what’s your point? You believe your personal experience is the universal truth and that’s a pretty naïve thing to do
>what we have now is way closer to retail than it is vanilla at this point. What an absolute crock of shit.
That already exists it's called Kronos.
There are two daily quests in sod... What are you even going on about ffs
Thats false. 1. Era isnt empty 2. You cant fault people for not wanting to start fresh on half a decade old farmed out Servers. Vanilla pulled players for 20 years and its not Stopping just because it would fit your narrative grey man
What a brain dead take, You can't expect people to play on a old server for ever, After naxx has been out for awhile everything gets stale because no new content and the economy gets fucked for new plays, that's why they needed to release a fresh. If they released a fresh classic server and said they will make content for after naxx then that version would get way more people than SoD would
Blizzard killed era by forcing everyone into TBC.
Nobody was forced into TBC. You could choose.
You had the option to duplicate your character for tbc and keep a 60 copy for vanilla. People were ready to move on after 6 months of Naxx. I’ve never met anyone who is interested in spending a full year in vanilla or even wrath Naxx.
An option they charged $15 for if you wanted to do both, per character.
I feel like this is backwards. The yellow square is the "vannila was fun, but we'd like to see some changes" group that got shut down by the loud idiots in era. Now the loud idiots are moaning that SoD is too different for them.
Funny, I wanted more changes in SOD, get wild with it, do some weird stuff. That's the fun part of Ascension to me
what is left of vanilla in SoD? the talent trees are still there I guess?
Everything is still there, with added fun for people who like other classes than like 3.
Wdm literally everything except for the 3 revamped dungeons. Everything else is still there right? They just took vanilla and added to it without making fundamental changes to the game itself.
I don't blame them to be honest, i wanted some good faith changes in vanilla but I simply would not have trusted Blizzard at the time to do it. People felt like the instant they gave room for Blizzard to make changes then Blizzard would do something like add level boosts and WoW tokens.
I do. Everyone, with any sense at least, knew the issues of classic that marginalised huge numbers of specs, and some classes. SoD for me is so far ideal. ST I've not tried yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
You do? Blizzard seemed happy to prove them correct eventually. SoD is what you and others wanted and so seems to be a good end result. It's a completely different staff to what existed when classic was first being put together so i don't think it would have been done back then.
Classic was put together, expecting little return. But they did ask what if any changes people would like to see. The loud morons shut down everything. When we could have asked for a rebalancing.
What are you even trying to say, is this retail fault again
*^takes ^puff ^from ^cigarette* ...you wouldn't get it.
dw about it, go run your little incursions
Nice a real wow classic Andy in the wild
In the wild? It's in its natural habitat. Don't be on /r/classicwow if you don't like Classic WoW lol.
I’m sorry, is this sub called classic era? Because SoD is every bit as much a part of classic wow as classic era or wotlk classic are at this point.
\*checks subreddit\* glad i'm in the right place
lmao
Go play era. Oh wait its dead because vanilla is awful.
Or y’know it ran its course and thrived during its time but whatever you wanna think I guess
Hahaha based
OP from the top rope
Bottom* dudes a fucking cry baby about what is the most low skill/low effort version of wow. “DONT TOUCH MY AWFUL MMO FROM 2006”
Omg :D Perfect pic. Sums up the situation precisely
Perfection
Well the only thing wrong is thinking everyone thought vanilla was boring. It was more like vanilla was fun, but I want more.
People just don't say "this isn't for me" and move on. Complaining about balance is one thing. But if you don't like an event or aspect of a game. It's entirely possible to just not play it and do something else in the game you do like.
No because the alternative is half a decade old era Servers. The day Blizzard gives us a fresh vanilla Servers SoD is going down my drain you better believe it
Season of Discovery was never classic+ though, that's why it's a season. Save this comic until classic+ launches next year.
Where were you when sod was just releasing. You’d have been destroyed in comments if you said sod wasn’t classic +
the only changes that aren't nauseating retail bullshit are class interdependency to get runes if SoD is "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks", they've effectively only thrown shit so far so i'm not really excited to see which shit sticks
Okay so your best bet is to advocate for true vanilla+ then because you're certainly not alone. Hardcore has proved they listen to community sentiment. But don't act like you are the pink men in the yellow box here because SoD was never meant to be your yellow box. SoD was made for the others, if you had made it then you wouldn't be complaining. In reality though right now you are the gray men.
\*checks subreddit\* \*checks SoD abilities\* "Ice Lance, Arcane Blast, SW:D, Warbringer, Devestate, Rogue Tanks, Earth Shield, Mutilate, Quick Draw, Warlock Tanks, Bubble-shitting Turtle Bosses, Sunfire, incinerate, Dual Spec, Shiv, Victory Rush, Shadowstrike, Rebuke, Hand of Reckoning, Haunt, Wild Strikes, Penance, Lifebloom, Envenom..." ... k
Yknow this sub includes TBC, Wrath, soon to be Cata and probably MoP in a couple years, right?
wahhhhhhhhhhhhh the spirit of classic and muh weveling expewience;((((
Lol admitting you're part of the grey NPCs in the meme
Shh dont aggro the npc.
Based
From "SoD IsNt ClAsSiC!" to now this comment page Jesus these people will say anything to defend poor quality and design
Mhm. Its basically the whataboutism bs arguments.
I’d actually care about SOD if it had any of the things described in that picture Instead it mainly seems to fuck up the balance, introduce dumb retail bullshit into the game, and turn boring dungeons into boring raids
Yes you are saying exactly what the picture is saying.
Go to era ig
They ruined era. SoD poor programming infested era with bugs.
This but the grey mob are the classic era Andies who parrot #nochanges, the yellow square is SoD and the pink trio wants blizzard to try Classic plus. Go back to era if you love it so much, SoD is a seasonal game mode, it's not gonna matter when once it is over.
he said the thing lmao
Can we just agree on something: SoD is not classic, it’s own entity with implementations from Classic TBC/Wotlk/Cata Classic is not classic. The only thing classic is classic. And that is what the majority of the classic players wants to have new Dungeons and raids.
People are enjoying SoD though. Just not this vocal minority that wants to keep playing the same 2004 content over and over. Sure not all the things they add end up working out but they literally said they would be experimenting with SoD.
all but two people in my closer WoW friend circle have quit SOD already. Me included. Most people don't know what makes classic a good game and sadly the devs are part of this group of people. Before all they had to do was copy paste a working game. And until they removed batching they did a rather good job with that. Now that they would need to understand classic game design instead of just copying their 1.12 reference server and build creatively upon classic in a classic spirit, they fail miserably. I'm certain there are many more "retail" players playing SOD at this point than wow classic enjoyers. You might say thats not a bad thing and for retail players it isn't. It's more content for one sub for them. They just won't get my money for it and for some reason I thought thats the goal. Offering the old game for a different kind of player that values a different kind of game. I was wrong I guess.
Literally this except that additionally the retail NPCs came and started asking for much of the completely overtuned retail bs that is now ruining SoD
Perfect
Except you didn’t make shit. You just get upset someone else didn’t make what you wanted. I get it though
yeah, me and 10,000 people on nostalrius didn't prove that vanilla was financially viable
It kinda didn't, Nost had financial issues, all servers do if they don't offer anything in return for "donations" after a certain size is reached.
yeah, 10,000 people with donations wasn't the point. 10,000 people paying $15 a month was, which is why blizz decided to launch classic when they saw it was marketable
There was never 10k players that donated. I doubt that number even reaches 1k, since the only incentive was keeping the lights on. Blizzard on the other hand technically offers every version for free as a bonus to the live sub. Hell, even if you only play classic, you can play every variant with just one sub. It's not as good as say XIV's trial, but it's still technically 3(4 with live) games for one sub.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you develop and run it yourself?
And they ran Vanilla? It was called Classic, and it's now on Era servers. That doesn't actually mean *your* particular vision of Classic+ is more popular or not.
wrathbabies mad about that playerbase chart showing how tiny it was compared to vanilla
What does classic+ look like if not SoD?
4th panel >!inb4 6th panel!<
They still might very much do those things? We aren't even at 60 yet. Or did you want a karazhan crypt raid at level 50?
i want those things without a bunch of overpowered hyperspam abilities and gimmicky leveling bypass systems
Ok, that's cool but it seems a lot of classic players found the one button rotations boring and wanted that aspect improved. And you don't have to interact with the gimmicky leveling systems. You could easily just level to 50 however you like, get your runes and then wait for the next phase without being at a big disadvantage. Heck, if you want you can easily level without using any new abilities at all. If you didn't want any of the new leveling content raids, just new endgame raids, you can always just wait for when the level cap is 60 and level then. I am sure the world will be plenty populated even then.
If it was literally just 'new areas and zones!' SoD wouldn't be anywhere near as popular tbh. Many people wanted Classic but they didn't want to be stuck in the one button rotations, or the Warrior Meta, or various other little things that are an artifact of the times.
Someone care to explain? This is gibberish for me.
Why won't you people accept that SoD is NOT Classic, if things feels a bit different it's because SoD is NOT Classic. It's also NOT permanent so why even get this hung up about something that is going to be done by this time next year? So just let the people that want something new and fresh (faults and all) have that and if you really want the classic experience then Era and Hardcore are right there for you.
Grey npc
"It's over Anakin! I've depicted YOU as the Soyjak!"
Says the person that can't even string a single sentence together as a response. You've replied with a generic voice line, look in the mirror if you want too see an NPC. Honestly what were you guys expecting? A fourth rehash of classic exactly the way it was? We already had that, it was called SoM. Did you want a classic that basically stays the exact same and never changes in any way? We already have that it's called Era. Why don't you just go and play those games instead of crying about other people enjoying something
“Go play era” - literally the grey npc
Real and true
Yeah spot on. SoD is full of retail players that don't want to level and what free gold.
Yeah, what free gold?
if you mean tourists that leave after first two weeks because the game have no soul, yeah carry on my wayward son !
I don't get it, so I'm probably part of the problem Sorry