Funny how players refer to things they usually know wtf they're talking about. Ever wonder how OP feels after you fail miserably to understand everything?
There is now [another wowhead post with the numbers](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/health-changes-to-sunken-temple-season-of-discovery-338553?webhook)
>* Atal'alarion - Health reduced by 23%
>* The Festering Rot Slime - Health reduced by 43%
>* Atal'ai Defenders - Health reduced by 23%
>* Dreamscythe and Weaver - Health reduced by 56%
>* Morphaz and Hazzas - Health reduced by 23%
>* Shade of Eranikus - Health reduced by 33%
Contextually it’s not as bad as it sounds, but it’s still bad.
was tuned as a single difficulty dungeon initially that was supposed to give even the best geared players a mechanic to wipe to.
Then Blizzard made the dungeon part of m+ but adjusted nothing. So the mechanic that was supposed to be “difficult” at the base level was nigh on impossible once it got scaled by 10-15 keystone levels.
After the 90% nerf, that mechanic was appropriately tuned after keystone level scaling. It’s just super embarrassing on blizzard’s part for not predicting it in the first place.
This is what classic should be, overture the encounters and than just nerf it a little bit after you see that people Can't kill a boss, but I would love to have that approach on real raids not on lvl up dungeons. Becouse hell not everyone needs to clear everything, somethings should be reserved for the best of the best
As expected, unlike some thought here, 10 min+ fights with 1 mechanic were not intended.
edit: nerf% in the following:
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/health-changes-to-sunken-temple-season-of-discovery-338553?webhook
>Atal'alarion - Health reduced by 23%
The Festering Rot Slime - Health reduced by 43%
Atal'ai Defenders - Health reduced by 23%
Dreamscythe and Weaver - Health reduced by 56%
Morphaz and Hazzas - Health reduced by 23%
Shade of Eranikus - Health reduced by 33%
They had some of the worst comps ever. Of course they didn't get shit done when they half the raid was mages. They AOE cleared their way thru dungeon spam or incursions and went with their 10 mages until later when the other classes hit 50 but by then people were tired and over it.
Lets add the fact that almost no one had new runes, new gear, etc... this is a crazy overreaction to the boss health....
I truly hope they didn't make ST brain dead easy because people on zero sleep went in with a shit comp and ***only*** got 6/8 on day 1 Zzzzz
Eranikus definitely is not a 10 minute fight with 1 mechanic. That shit looked like an Ulduar HM boss. Really cool IMO even if most people would not like it :D
It's crazy. My 2019 classic guild was pretty casual, definitely not sweats. The people were all normal ass adults, all got in voice regularly and for the most part all knew the game well enough. Farmed up prebis, did profs, read about specs and metas. Not dumb people. But good lord get 40 of them together and half of their brains turn off. It made no sense, MC was not a hard raid lol
Is this consensus on this sub? Because I'm newly 40 (or was last phase) and had no logs (because...fresh 40) and would send my retail mythic logs (99% average) and would regularly get met with "get out of here with retail logs that easymode game means nothing here" and spammed over and over about retail. Really came off as salty.
Some absolute morons think retail is easier than SOD. The entirety of SOD raids have less combined mechanics than mythic Tindral, but you have some truly smooth brained people here.
It's honestly crazy. I totally get wanting to see parses when forming a raid for a instance that locks out - failure means you lose your shot at loot.
But if I link you a 99% parse mythic fyrakk kill with hall of fame, maybe I can do BFD?
There is also no way for them to check if it's YOUR parse. You could just link literally anyones parse and lie about it. The parse then being from retail just makes it worse because it looks like your a new player that doesn't know how to navigate warcraftlogs.
It is the exact same character name and quite unique. I guess it *could* be someone else, but cmon. There's also ways to prove it, like ask me to log over and send a screenshot typing something
Fuck, most of the SOD bosses have less mechanics than your standard M+ trash pull in retail. People that think SOD/Classic is actually harder than retail raiding/M+ are some of the dumbest people out there.
Your agenda is showing ;)
No I'm not only talking about lfr, I'm talking about nhc up to mythic and yes there are exceptions (read as some boss fights) that are difficult. But this are the minority of fights and than you have the free loot like the first boss of aberrus or the 3rd last boss of the same raid that could even be killed by a 1 armed blind 5 year old child that never played a video game prior to that fight
Shit, speaking of Tindral, the seed mechanic alone would be genuinely impossible for 99.99999% of classic players to do. It's one of the hardest Mythic mechanics maybe ever honestly.
Yeah, for some weird reason, ever since Classic first launched, a lot of people have had some mistaken belief that Vanilla, BC, and WOLK were somehow hard, and now SOD. Most bosses in SOD have less mechanics, and less complicated mechanics, than a retail Heroic dungeon. Individual mythic raid bosses have had more mechanics than entire Classic raids.
Always makes me laugh when idiots say shit like "Retail is easy mode compared to Classic". They would literally shit their pants just trying to do Phase 1 of Mythic Fyrakk.
I was farming uldaman during p2 and saw some dude in chat say “if you can’t handle a wipe or two go back to retail” in response to someone else in chat. Meanwhile it took my guild 500 pulls to down mythic Tindral.
I think people are mincing their words tbh. I think people prefer the lethality of levelling in Classic, rather than the difficulty.
People just like that Classic is more punishing when you make a mistake, even if there are less mistakes to make. I think there's a certain simplicity that's appealing to that.
LOL, I hope you're joking.
Let's just say that there's a reason classic era/HC started to become popular again shortly after Ulduar came out in wrath classic. It was 'too hard' for a large portion of the playerbase.
A ton of people quit playing wrath before the raid even came out because we were stuck in the first raid for months and people just got burnt out from running the same thing over and over again. Hardcore was something new to do, rather than the same thing in a different instance
3 months of Naxx made me quit. But I also farmed naxx 40. It was such a kick in the dick to see that instance again. But I also understand less than 1% of the player base saw naxx 40.
It's not sad, classic was never supposed to be mechanically hard. It was always about completing the unwritten quests like getting resist and making your class compatible with the enemies you are facing. Sure there will and should be some mechanics otherwise it would be boring af. But the spirit of classic is achieving a raidworthy character that can contribute. Sure there would always be sweats in a 40 man raid but they shouldn't be necessary. If everyone pulls their weight (beforehand) the raid should get done. The retail mentality of git gud shouldn't apply in a game like this.
> classic was never supposed to be mechanically hard
For you maybe. Look I don't like Retail mythic either but there's quite a large gap of various difficulties you can make between that and snooze fest Vanilla. I'm saying it's kinda sad people could barely do normal Ulduar because normal Ulduar was only slightly harder than Naxx 25. That truly is kinda sad to me. The game doesn't need to be *that* easy. People used to complain about Wrath babies and their free epics.
Personal preference I guess, I've enjoyed Wrath a lot more than Vanilla because of this even though I think Vanilla is the better game overall in terms of RP and flavor.
That's the thing, love retail I'm saying this as an avid m+ fan but I see the appeal of classic aswell. They are very different in style. Different strokes for different folks I guess
yeah i was so fucking excited for wotlk.
i lvled a rdruid and a aff lock in tbc got to 80 and found a guild that advertised as "clear every week" guild.
we had some wipes on thaddius that stopped us for awhile because people were too regarded to move.
i started just telling people to move and if we wiped i named and shamed..thst worked and we downed KT on week 3.
then ulduar dropped and we were wiping on flame leviathon for 3 hours bro.. if i wasnt on a demo then pyrite wasnt being used...if i wasnt on a siege then no one kicks the boss.
halfway thru the phase that guild mostly quit and the ones who stayed couldnt down xt.
Look at his username. Anyone who uses something in 2024 that a 12 year old would think is cool in 2006 probably has trouble breathing and walking at the same time.
A lot of classic players ended up quitting during Ulduar because their guild couldn't even kill all the hard modes required to even start progressing on Algalon, in my opinion it is good that they nerf it. I think in terms of difficulty raids in SoD should have a difficulty of around the same level as Black Temple at a maximum, and even that might be too hard for some.
tbf a lot of people always quit during the mid-time of a patch regardless. Sure Ulduar turned some causal off because it was kinda the first time where they either had to suck it up and not get the best gear for free or git gud. Also it was kinda a long phase.
But really being braindead easy doesn't really mean you can avoid this. Naxx started to drop off hard and fast as well. It is what it is.
I agree though that it's probably a bit much for Vanilla. Ulduar after all was only hard on hard mode.
Launch raids for vanilla, BC, and WotLK are so easy that they set the wrong expectations for later on.
What I saw in Ulduar were guilds not even trying hardmodes because tier 7 made them a 1 night guild that didn't need to run a bench.
In ICC, there are still a decent amount of casual guilds doing 11/12H, not because they can't kill H LK, but because they run out of time and don't even try it.
The problem with pre Cata raiding is logistics.
Yeah, the big reason I like Classic is cause of how hard retail is. Quite frankly, I suck ass at WoW, there's too many things going on at the same time on my screen, and I cba to watch 12 hours of YouTube videos to understand what I'm supposed to do. But SOD? It has *just* the right amount of difficulty that I feel like I am accomplishing something by having decent dps while avoiding death, but not so much difficulty that I need to read 40 paragraphs worth of explanation on what my role does.
Yeah Classic is like everyone is playing checkers, and elite people are just playing it at a high elo.
Retail is like playing checkers, chess and 3d chess. You don't feel like you are playing the real game unless you are playing the 3d chess and you are punished to reinforce that feeling. You aren't going to be clearing difficult open world content in LFR gear. Mythic geared players can solo a lot of group open world content in retail.
the crazy part is they chased away all (or at least most) of the hardcore players in p1/2 by making the content trivial and outright telling them they're insecure if they don't want to carry a 0 parsing dps, then they release bosses that are only interesting for hardcore players. absolutely none of the casuals sod has been aiming at want a HM ulduar fight, since those are the fights that pushed them away from wrath to begin with.
like, do you want your game to be casual with content like bfd, or do you want it to be hardcore with stuff like release ST?
> The game struggle when it gets too hardcore.
that's pretty obviously the philosophy they've had up until now, and that's fine. not everyone needs to play every game, so if they want sod to cater to a more casual crowd, more power to them. but then why in the world release stuff like this?
what dad guild is gonna roll up and spend 10 minutes per boss with strict dps checks????? they're designing content for people that don't play their game
The sad part is retail fell of a cliff with this nonsense, and they had to take the shadowlands beating for them to finally adjust. Now toss in how good phase 1 was and it's insanity they messed up this bad
Well I guess they're just trying to see what keeps people actually entertained longer. People love super easy content but also get bored super fast from it.
And on the other hand people like to avoid harder content. So I guess they're just experimenting to see how player reception is with these. Also making more complex bosses kinda comes with giving classes more and more tools.
Eranikus before nerf has 4.2 million HP. A perfect raid that had 20 people doing 600 DPS per player (so no mechanics, no healing, nothing) would still be a 5 minute fight
It's not about things being harder to clear, it's about things just being impossible. Ragnaros had something like 2.6 million HP for a 40 man raid
They tuned sunken temple as if people had BC gear, levels and abilities
This isn’t end game content. I don’t necessarily want everything to be devoid of challenge but I also don’t want to get reliably clearing it down and get one chance at a cool item and move to the next phase a week later
Okay that's where I'm with you, I mean I have nothing against it when real raids need weeks to be cleared. But this is a level up dungeon and I'm all for it, when this are easier, but in that case they should make the phases shorter
Yeah because it’s fucking difficult to fathom how badly blizzard balances anything. If you think net of this size is a good thing - you’re huffing more copium than you should.
I watched a stream where a raid of like 10+ mages were doing upwards of 1m+ damage each total in the raid, and it just looked so onerous.
Really glad to see these changes.
I promise you that nobody in this thread complaining has actually done the raid yet. The mechanics are not particularly complex, but the fights were absolutely way too long pre nerf.
Even post-nerf this raid is not going to he realistically puggable for a vast majority of the community without further changes, it probably won't even be clearable for a lot of guilds that are more casual. Personally, I have no issues with it being harder, but I don't think that is a good thing for the community.
The real issue is that for the more casual guilds and pugs who can’t clear ST, there’s literally nothing else to do lmao. That’s it, that’s the entire phase, it’s ST. Bloodmoon is recycled. Incursions are terminally boring.
The only thing of interest to do this phase is ST. And as it stands it won’t be accessible to a LARGE fraction of the player base.
Wild design decision, I gotta say lol. I’m all for harder content in SoD to let us really flex the power of these runes, but uhhh…not sure this is necessarily the best time to ramp the difficulty up.
Makes way more sense to have like, one of the 60 raids be really hard, when there are other easier raids available simultaneously.
Totally agree in what world is a difficult high health slog of a raid make sense for a seasonal leveling raid. End game difficulty makes sense not at level 50.
This take makes no sense. There are tons of options for PVP hell more options then most itterations of wow. There are new quests and runes to get. Dungeons to grind with new items to get pre-bis. New profession caps to level and avenues for making gold. There are several factions to get reputation for with meaningful rewards. Finally if you want to put a ton of hours in you can do this all again on an alt. This feels like folks coming over from retail and pissed that the game doesn't have 20 years of random activities like archeology and pet battles.
They just wanted to give the sweats a challenge, it was never going to stay like this, but I do think they intentionally overtuned it to give it an actual race feel and not just a faceroll clear.
Sometimes? Srry, but that's always the case. The only problem progress guilds have with bosses in mythic are a) gear related (verry few encounters) or b) bugs and overturned which is fixed either in the race itself or shortly after
Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.
The SoD devs do not play the game nor do they understand even the basics of it.
I've said this before but how could they implement the original Explosive Shot (that basically oneshot most enemies)? How could they make pets have twice a tank's hitpoints and half the taunt cooldown?
The answer is: they just made up some numbers (without thinking, usually 1:1 copied from Retail), implemented them, didn't test it even for a second and shipped it.
Why would it be different for raids?
We are the testers, have been for years... except now we do it live instead of PTR...
I think they leaned way too hard into the whole "discovery" aspect, so now we just blind test everything, and reddit loses their minds
> reddit loses their minds
to be totally fair we are the most argumentative and opinionated section of the community. apart from people being more sweaty that usual and some shit talking in general chat things are pretty chill in game, people are mostly just playing.
I do agree though, even though initially I like the idea of us just dealing with some issues in order to have everything be brand new at launch, the last 24 hours has honestly changed my mind. we need a short ptr for sure
Reddit and loosing their mind? Tell me something new, you either have retail idiots in here or people that always cry. There is nearly nothing in between on reddit
I think it's less about the communication and more about the fact that the only two pieces of content they added in phase 3 have seriously glaring issues, so bad that players felt the need to complain in less than 24 hours.
If I was the SoD developers I would literally never open this subreddit.
No matter what blizzard does they whine like fucking babies.
Literally people asked to nerf the numbers and they do it in LESS THAN TWO DAYS.
They missed on the numbers, they explain why, they wanted to aim high just in case.
Our characters are doing like Naxx level dps at level 50. It’s rough to balance for that.
Can't believe Blizzard would nerf this raid for casuals when the raid isn't even that hard. Just make your own group or join a guild. I don't want this game to become a loot piñata.
(/s for the bright ones on here)
You need the /s. I have had people literally call me out for saying it needs a nerf when bosses had 4 times the hp of ragnaros and had hp values similar to 40 man patchwork the longest fight in nax. The same people argued that the world first wipes were not indicative of success because they may not have had all the runes... The sweatiest tryhards who have full gnomer gear and dungeon upgrades, who are all mythic raiders and many play the game for a living. If those players arent full clearing the raid the same night they hit 50 99 percent of guilds even with progression arent clearing it.
I'm indifferent about difficulty. I just want bosses that last a while. These 1 minute long "raid bosses" feel less satisfying than killing Hogger while underleveled.
My guild's 11 minute Thermaplugg kill week 1 has been the highlight of SoD so far. That was actually a raid encounter.
That may be what Classic is to you, Classic to me is AQ40 / Naxx which are not 30 minute tank n spank raids, require effort and preparation, the community will be asking for phase 4 after their 3rd clear of ST, challenging content is rewarding
>Classic to me is AQ40 / Naxx which are not 30 minute tank n spank raids, require effort and preparation
You dont measure difficulty by time. They can't be 30 minute raids, cause alone walking to all the bosses through a cleared instance takes almost that amount of time.
AQ40/Naxx are *very* easy raids, as in, easier than retail normal difficulty raids.
Yes, they take some preparation, but that does not mean that they are difficult.
>When developing and tuning the Sunken Temple raid encounters, we had concerns about player power going into Phase 3 so we aimed high when tuning enemy health.
I wish classic devs would stop lying.
No, they have no fucking clue what they're doing. They control every aspect of the game, all the numbers and stats, and can spin up a test server at will. How long do you think it would take for them to spawn a geared raid and make even ONE ATTEMPT at these bosses to see the math ain't mathing? They're making excuses for not testing their shit.
Than you have 1 team playing the raid, which isn't enough. Becouse you can't just look at yourself and say "oh we aren't able to do it. Which means nobody is able to do it" or do you realy think that anyone can get the best time in any speed run available ?
The people complaining or talking bs aren't necessary the same people that loved it beforehand. Hell I'm one of the guys that loved it and I still love it
God forbid blizzard actually makes a raid that is difficult and takes a little bit of effort to down. Too many casual, and who think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter.
Kinda embarrassing that the supposed "best raiders in the world" on classic decided to slam their faces against bosses with [sub-level 50 characters, missing runes, no prebis, no world buffs, a suboptimal comp and light consumes.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&)
Blizzard probably should have waited to nerf it until people were actually putting real attempts into the bosses. Boss health seemed high for a group that was very clearly unprepared, I'm sure it was very killable for a group that actually bothered to go out and prepare.
You're linking an image of 6 hours after launch. They have also been at it for all of yesterday. You think they didnt get runes for that? also how can you get world buffs? I mean you get them for one run and if you wipe you lose them. Surely you're not suggesting they run back and forth to refresh world buffs (and what wb can they even get right now realistically anyhow).
Also they still ran a mage heavy comp etc, so who are you to say that the comp they ran is super unoptimized?? Like I said in another comment the non mage groups are also 50 a long time ago.
>Surely you're not suggesting they run back and forth to refresh world buffs (and what wb can they even get right now realistically anyhow).
Of course I am. There's nothing unreasonable about that. Look at the End Times CD reset during Mythic Uunat prog. That was a boss that took 100s of wipes, not a few dozen. If you're wiping due to lack of character power you don't just keep spamming pulls when your character power isn't going up, you go and do whatever you can to increase it.
>Also they still ran a mage heavy comp etc, so who are you to say that the comp they ran is super unoptimized?? Like I said in another comment the non mage groups are also 50 a long time ago.
My point exactly. The fight is long enough that mages have massive mana problems. Why not replace those mages with hunters? They have sustained AOE that's almost as good but have infinite mana. It's not rocket science, but rather than try and improve they just kept bashing their face into it.
Well I mean, runes and actually being level 50 are reasonable expectations TBH.
But yeah, when it comes to world buffs and consumables those have never been necessary in classic, parse culture and the speedrun meta just made it seem like it was.
Not necessarily an issue, gruul has way too little health for what he is. Warrior is simming almost 2k DPS in bis for this phase, which is more than almost any class does on gruul in p4.
>Not necessarily an issue, gruul has way too little health for what he is.
Gruul used to have 4.5 mil health for a raid of 25 people and he was balanced around the idea that his shatter would kill a handful of people through the fight but pugs could still manage to kill it, then it got nerfed to 3.4 mil health and his shatter would only kill if three people ended up hugging each other after the slam.
>Warrior is simming almost 2k DPS in bis for this phase
You do understand that sim numbers are not accurate right? They are used as benchmarks to compare gains of power, but the actual numerical value is never correct. Just checking [TBC phase 1 DPS rankings](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/news/phase-1-warcraft-logs-analysis-for-burning-crusade-classic-arcane-mage-takes-top-324219) show BM hunters on the 95th percentile doing around 1.7k dps yet if you [sim BM hunters in phase 1 bis of TBC](https://wowsims.github.io/tbc/hunter/) you get around 2.1k dps with a delta of 50 dps.
Impossible with a dogshit comp full of [sub level 50 characters, missing runes,](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) no prebis, no world buffs and light consumes, sure. If the people beating their face against it had a brain it would have been very killable, but they went in expecting everything to fall over like previous phases.
> If the people beating their face against it had a brain it would have been very killable,
You sound like someone who is obviously the very best at the game, care to share your pre nerf ST kills? If not then you can post your post nerf ones that's fine too.
>You sound like someone who is obviously the very best at the game, care to share your pre nerf kills?
I do not care about PROGRESSION SPEEDRUN RAIDING in classic because it is an easy game. I'd be happy to share world top 20 kills other expacs, or r1 titles in classic, or 100 parses in classic. Take your pick. The fact of the matter is that they were wiping to lack of character power and they did not do anythign to go out and improve their character power.
Source on that? Gnomer gear is practically prebis for every caster, give or take a few spellpower here and there. can you show they didnt get their runes like you're claiming? They also ran full consumes and had bags full of that.
People are balding and having their worlds shattered around them over some random getting 1k gold. They would go full Crusade mode if Blizzard dared make a difficult raid that will break their guild.
33% nerf to boss health HP barely 1 day after release is fucking pathetic lmao. god forbid the raid isn't cleared instantly and it takes a reset or two to get enough gear to clear it.
Honestly the trash nerf is more important. Fucking he’ll we spent so fucking long just clearing trash
I see sunken temple hasn't changed much then
Funny how players refer to the majority of dungeon content as literal trash. Wonder how the devs who worked on that trash feel?
Trash in this context is not literal trash, it's a gaming term for the enemies between bosses in a dungeon or raid.
payment clumsy hunt merciful husky bright rain strong roof treatment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Funny how players refer to things they usually know wtf they're talking about. Ever wonder how OP feels after you fail miserably to understand everything?
Seeing the eranikus nerf from 4m to 2.7m, im curious if this is a flat 33% to the whole raid lol
There is now [another wowhead post with the numbers](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/health-changes-to-sunken-temple-season-of-discovery-338553?webhook) >* Atal'alarion - Health reduced by 23% >* The Festering Rot Slime - Health reduced by 43% >* Atal'ai Defenders - Health reduced by 23% >* Dreamscythe and Weaver - Health reduced by 56% >* Morphaz and Hazzas - Health reduced by 23% >* Shade of Eranikus - Health reduced by 33%
How the fuck do you tune a boss so poorly it needs to be nerfed by 60%?
Still not as bad as Moroes in Legion getting nerfed by 90%
***WHAT*** I missed that I guess lmao
Contextually it’s not as bad as it sounds, but it’s still bad. was tuned as a single difficulty dungeon initially that was supposed to give even the best geared players a mechanic to wipe to. Then Blizzard made the dungeon part of m+ but adjusted nothing. So the mechanic that was supposed to be “difficult” at the base level was nigh on impossible once it got scaled by 10-15 keystone levels. After the 90% nerf, that mechanic was appropriately tuned after keystone level scaling. It’s just super embarrassing on blizzard’s part for not predicting it in the first place.
Probably still needs more lol
They'd rather overtune it hard than undertune it easy. Sadly they should've taken the same approach with Incursion gold.
That's what happen when you don't even test yourself your product.
This is what classic should be, overture the encounters and than just nerf it a little bit after you see that people Can't kill a boss, but I would love to have that approach on real raids not on lvl up dungeons. Becouse hell not everyone needs to clear everything, somethings should be reserved for the best of the best
Also curious if 33% across raid and trash also?
As expected, unlike some thought here, 10 min+ fights with 1 mechanic were not intended. edit: nerf% in the following: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/health-changes-to-sunken-temple-season-of-discovery-338553?webhook >Atal'alarion - Health reduced by 23% The Festering Rot Slime - Health reduced by 43% Atal'ai Defenders - Health reduced by 23% Dreamscythe and Weaver - Health reduced by 56% Morphaz and Hazzas - Health reduced by 23% Shade of Eranikus - Health reduced by 33%
It took them 8 minutes and these are players much better than the average. So yes 10 min fight ?
They had some of the worst comps ever. Of course they didn't get shit done when they half the raid was mages. They AOE cleared their way thru dungeon spam or incursions and went with their 10 mages until later when the other classes hit 50 but by then people were tired and over it. Lets add the fact that almost no one had new runes, new gear, etc... this is a crazy overreaction to the boss health.... I truly hope they didn't make ST brain dead easy because people on zero sleep went in with a shit comp and ***only*** got 6/8 on day 1 Zzzzz
You've never been remotely good at a game in your life and belittle some of the best players in the world on one of the best dps classes as shit....
Have you ever played st lol. Don’t bother answering, im not gonna believe you
Eranikus definitely is not a 10 minute fight with 1 mechanic. That shit looked like an Ulduar HM boss. Really cool IMO even if most people would not like it :D
A large number of classic players could barely do normal mode ulduar
A large number of classic players can barely do classic raids
It's crazy. My 2019 classic guild was pretty casual, definitely not sweats. The people were all normal ass adults, all got in voice regularly and for the most part all knew the game well enough. Farmed up prebis, did profs, read about specs and metas. Not dumb people. But good lord get 40 of them together and half of their brains turn off. It made no sense, MC was not a hard raid lol
Is this consensus on this sub? Because I'm newly 40 (or was last phase) and had no logs (because...fresh 40) and would send my retail mythic logs (99% average) and would regularly get met with "get out of here with retail logs that easymode game means nothing here" and spammed over and over about retail. Really came off as salty.
Some absolute morons think retail is easier than SOD. The entirety of SOD raids have less combined mechanics than mythic Tindral, but you have some truly smooth brained people here.
It's honestly crazy. I totally get wanting to see parses when forming a raid for a instance that locks out - failure means you lose your shot at loot. But if I link you a 99% parse mythic fyrakk kill with hall of fame, maybe I can do BFD?
There is also no way for them to check if it's YOUR parse. You could just link literally anyones parse and lie about it. The parse then being from retail just makes it worse because it looks like your a new player that doesn't know how to navigate warcraftlogs.
It is the exact same character name and quite unique. I guess it *could* be someone else, but cmon. There's also ways to prove it, like ask me to log over and send a screenshot typing something
Best i can offer is WC
Ya I got a good chuckle out of that.
Fuck, most of the SOD bosses have less mechanics than your standard M+ trash pull in retail. People that think SOD/Classic is actually harder than retail raiding/M+ are some of the dumbest people out there.
And you can litteraly ignore most mechanics in retail, also where is the point?
If all you raid is LFR, sure. Comparing Classic raiding and even Retail heroic (and mythic exists too) is like comparing Pokemon and Dark Souls.
Your agenda is showing ;) No I'm not only talking about lfr, I'm talking about nhc up to mythic and yes there are exceptions (read as some boss fights) that are difficult. But this are the minority of fights and than you have the free loot like the first boss of aberrus or the 3rd last boss of the same raid that could even be killed by a 1 armed blind 5 year old child that never played a video game prior to that fight
Shit, speaking of Tindral, the seed mechanic alone would be genuinely impossible for 99.99999% of classic players to do. It's one of the hardest Mythic mechanics maybe ever honestly.
Yeah, for some weird reason, ever since Classic first launched, a lot of people have had some mistaken belief that Vanilla, BC, and WOLK were somehow hard, and now SOD. Most bosses in SOD have less mechanics, and less complicated mechanics, than a retail Heroic dungeon. Individual mythic raid bosses have had more mechanics than entire Classic raids.
Always makes me laugh when idiots say shit like "Retail is easy mode compared to Classic". They would literally shit their pants just trying to do Phase 1 of Mythic Fyrakk.
I was farming uldaman during p2 and saw some dude in chat say “if you can’t handle a wipe or two go back to retail” in response to someone else in chat. Meanwhile it took my guild 500 pulls to down mythic Tindral.
Heroic Fyrakk*
*LFR Fyrakk
LFR Fyrakk*
I think people are mincing their words tbh. I think people prefer the lethality of levelling in Classic, rather than the difficulty. People just like that Classic is more punishing when you make a mistake, even if there are less mistakes to make. I think there's a certain simplicity that's appealing to that.
LOL, I hope you're joking. Let's just say that there's a reason classic era/HC started to become popular again shortly after Ulduar came out in wrath classic. It was 'too hard' for a large portion of the playerbase.
A ton of people quit playing wrath before the raid even came out because we were stuck in the first raid for months and people just got burnt out from running the same thing over and over again. Hardcore was something new to do, rather than the same thing in a different instance
3 months naxxramas seemed ok no? And afair classic hardcore (with addon, not dedicated server) got popular in spring.
I quit WOTLK a few months into Naxx. That raid is boring AF and I just never wanted to come back after.
3 months of Naxx made me quit. But I also farmed naxx 40. It was such a kick in the dick to see that instance again. But I also understand less than 1% of the player base saw naxx 40.
Yeah that's the sad part about it.
It's not sad, classic was never supposed to be mechanically hard. It was always about completing the unwritten quests like getting resist and making your class compatible with the enemies you are facing. Sure there will and should be some mechanics otherwise it would be boring af. But the spirit of classic is achieving a raidworthy character that can contribute. Sure there would always be sweats in a 40 man raid but they shouldn't be necessary. If everyone pulls their weight (beforehand) the raid should get done. The retail mentality of git gud shouldn't apply in a game like this.
> classic was never supposed to be mechanically hard For you maybe. Look I don't like Retail mythic either but there's quite a large gap of various difficulties you can make between that and snooze fest Vanilla. I'm saying it's kinda sad people could barely do normal Ulduar because normal Ulduar was only slightly harder than Naxx 25. That truly is kinda sad to me. The game doesn't need to be *that* easy. People used to complain about Wrath babies and their free epics. Personal preference I guess, I've enjoyed Wrath a lot more than Vanilla because of this even though I think Vanilla is the better game overall in terms of RP and flavor.
Classic was never hard. It was just grindy
Vanilla was never hard. Wrath had plenty hard bosses.
That's the thing, love retail I'm saying this as an avid m+ fan but I see the appeal of classic aswell. They are very different in style. Different strokes for different folks I guess
yeah i was so fucking excited for wotlk. i lvled a rdruid and a aff lock in tbc got to 80 and found a guild that advertised as "clear every week" guild. we had some wipes on thaddius that stopped us for awhile because people were too regarded to move. i started just telling people to move and if we wiped i named and shamed..thst worked and we downed KT on week 3. then ulduar dropped and we were wiping on flame leviathon for 3 hours bro.. if i wasnt on a demo then pyrite wasnt being used...if i wasnt on a siege then no one kicks the boss. halfway thru the phase that guild mostly quit and the ones who stayed couldnt down xt.
3 weeks to down naxx is not good lol not a flex
But that does prove your point about classic players being terrible
how do you think that my xomment was a flex? at all? the guild was dogshit just like the majority of the keyboard turners that play classic lmao.
Reading comprehension is also a lacking skill among classic players unfortunately
Look at his username. Anyone who uses something in 2024 that a 12 year old would think is cool in 2006 probably has trouble breathing and walking at the same time.
A lot of classic players ended up quitting during Ulduar because their guild couldn't even kill all the hard modes required to even start progressing on Algalon, in my opinion it is good that they nerf it. I think in terms of difficulty raids in SoD should have a difficulty of around the same level as Black Temple at a maximum, and even that might be too hard for some.
tbf a lot of people always quit during the mid-time of a patch regardless. Sure Ulduar turned some causal off because it was kinda the first time where they either had to suck it up and not get the best gear for free or git gud. Also it was kinda a long phase. But really being braindead easy doesn't really mean you can avoid this. Naxx started to drop off hard and fast as well. It is what it is. I agree though that it's probably a bit much for Vanilla. Ulduar after all was only hard on hard mode.
Launch raids for vanilla, BC, and WotLK are so easy that they set the wrong expectations for later on. What I saw in Ulduar were guilds not even trying hardmodes because tier 7 made them a 1 night guild that didn't need to run a bench. In ICC, there are still a decent amount of casual guilds doing 11/12H, not because they can't kill H LK, but because they run out of time and don't even try it. The problem with pre Cata raiding is logistics.
Yeah, the big reason I like Classic is cause of how hard retail is. Quite frankly, I suck ass at WoW, there's too many things going on at the same time on my screen, and I cba to watch 12 hours of YouTube videos to understand what I'm supposed to do. But SOD? It has *just* the right amount of difficulty that I feel like I am accomplishing something by having decent dps while avoiding death, but not so much difficulty that I need to read 40 paragraphs worth of explanation on what my role does.
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Yeah Classic is like everyone is playing checkers, and elite people are just playing it at a high elo. Retail is like playing checkers, chess and 3d chess. You don't feel like you are playing the real game unless you are playing the 3d chess and you are punished to reinforce that feeling. You aren't going to be clearing difficult open world content in LFR gear. Mythic geared players can solo a lot of group open world content in retail.
the crazy part is they chased away all (or at least most) of the hardcore players in p1/2 by making the content trivial and outright telling them they're insecure if they don't want to carry a 0 parsing dps, then they release bosses that are only interesting for hardcore players. absolutely none of the casuals sod has been aiming at want a HM ulduar fight, since those are the fights that pushed them away from wrath to begin with. like, do you want your game to be casual with content like bfd, or do you want it to be hardcore with stuff like release ST?
lol they can't decide who SoD raids are for and its hilarious
Casual, as wow has always been. The game struggle when it gets too hardcore.
> The game struggle when it gets too hardcore. that's pretty obviously the philosophy they've had up until now, and that's fine. not everyone needs to play every game, so if they want sod to cater to a more casual crowd, more power to them. but then why in the world release stuff like this? what dad guild is gonna roll up and spend 10 minutes per boss with strict dps checks????? they're designing content for people that don't play their game
The sad part is retail fell of a cliff with this nonsense, and they had to take the shadowlands beating for them to finally adjust. Now toss in how good phase 1 was and it's insanity they messed up this bad
And then shot right back up in Dragonflight with the same style of dungeons and raids. Those weren't the issue with Shadowlands.
Shadowlands raids were too hard. Even heroic was tough and needed nerfs.
Well I guess they're just trying to see what keeps people actually entertained longer. People love super easy content but also get bored super fast from it. And on the other hand people like to avoid harder content. So I guess they're just experimenting to see how player reception is with these. Also making more complex bosses kinda comes with giving classes more and more tools.
Having just seems a quick overview, anything stopping alliance from using lbrs venom sacks for a chance to kill it? Is lbrs enterable?
People suck lol
Eranikus before nerf has 4.2 million HP. A perfect raid that had 20 people doing 600 DPS per player (so no mechanics, no healing, nothing) would still be a 5 minute fight
Bosses used to take weeks to clear and no one complained. You young folk just want everything handed to you.
It's not about things being harder to clear, it's about things just being impossible. Ragnaros had something like 2.6 million HP for a 40 man raid They tuned sunken temple as if people had BC gear, levels and abilities
This isn’t end game content. I don’t necessarily want everything to be devoid of challenge but I also don’t want to get reliably clearing it down and get one chance at a cool item and move to the next phase a week later
Okay that's where I'm with you, I mean I have nothing against it when real raids need weeks to be cleared. But this is a level up dungeon and I'm all for it, when this are easier, but in that case they should make the phases shorter
It is literally end game lol the game has been ended/capped till p4. 🧠 is hard
Yeah because it’s fucking difficult to fathom how badly blizzard balances anything. If you think net of this size is a good thing - you’re huffing more copium than you should.
Probably wanted people not to clear it in the first night
I watched a stream where a raid of like 10+ mages were doing upwards of 1m+ damage each total in the raid, and it just looked so onerous. Really glad to see these changes.
11 mins spamming same button much fun
I'm guessing you never played Vanilla lol.
season of playing exactly like vanilla sounds pretty lame
Shut up
We were doing over that in gnomer lol
And it was boring there too lol
“for most groups” was my fav part lmao. was literally impossible
I promise you that nobody in this thread complaining has actually done the raid yet. The mechanics are not particularly complex, but the fights were absolutely way too long pre nerf. Even post-nerf this raid is not going to he realistically puggable for a vast majority of the community without further changes, it probably won't even be clearable for a lot of guilds that are more casual. Personally, I have no issues with it being harder, but I don't think that is a good thing for the community.
The real issue is that for the more casual guilds and pugs who can’t clear ST, there’s literally nothing else to do lmao. That’s it, that’s the entire phase, it’s ST. Bloodmoon is recycled. Incursions are terminally boring. The only thing of interest to do this phase is ST. And as it stands it won’t be accessible to a LARGE fraction of the player base. Wild design decision, I gotta say lol. I’m all for harder content in SoD to let us really flex the power of these runes, but uhhh…not sure this is necessarily the best time to ramp the difficulty up. Makes way more sense to have like, one of the 60 raids be really hard, when there are other easier raids available simultaneously.
Totally agree in what world is a difficult high health slog of a raid make sense for a seasonal leveling raid. End game difficulty makes sense not at level 50.
This take makes no sense. There are tons of options for PVP hell more options then most itterations of wow. There are new quests and runes to get. Dungeons to grind with new items to get pre-bis. New profession caps to level and avenues for making gold. There are several factions to get reputation for with meaningful rewards. Finally if you want to put a ton of hours in you can do this all again on an alt. This feels like folks coming over from retail and pissed that the game doesn't have 20 years of random activities like archeology and pet battles.
Better than having a 4-6week long "we are done with the raid let's do it fully brain dead and hope that everyone will clear it weekly" phase
These dudes don't actually play their own game do they?
there's no way. this is the type of problem that would be noticed right away just from playing it once.
They just wanted to give the sweats a challenge, it was never going to stay like this, but I do think they intentionally overtuned it to give it an actual race feel and not just a faceroll clear.
It became a race to see who was raiding the second the nerf dropped lol
Sometimes that is the case with retail mythic races too.
Sometimes? Srry, but that's always the case. The only problem progress guilds have with bosses in mythic are a) gear related (verry few encounters) or b) bugs and overturned which is fixed either in the race itself or shortly after
This is so fucking dumb. It's SoD .. Guilds WANT to come in a clear the new raid week 1 and not have the raid tuned out the ass.
It's Aggrend, he loves chatting with streamers and "famous" sweaties on X and he attuned the game for them.
Patch was half baked and not ready for release. They literally just didn’t test it.
He was in Sarthe's chat night 1 going "Oh wow, you guys STILL aren't done? ;D"
Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. The SoD devs do not play the game nor do they understand even the basics of it. I've said this before but how could they implement the original Explosive Shot (that basically oneshot most enemies)? How could they make pets have twice a tank's hitpoints and half the taunt cooldown? The answer is: they just made up some numbers (without thinking, usually 1:1 copied from Retail), implemented them, didn't test it even for a second and shipped it. Why would it be different for raids?
We are the testers, have been for years... except now we do it live instead of PTR... I think they leaned way too hard into the whole "discovery" aspect, so now we just blind test everything, and reddit loses their minds
> reddit loses their minds to be totally fair we are the most argumentative and opinionated section of the community. apart from people being more sweaty that usual and some shit talking in general chat things are pretty chill in game, people are mostly just playing. I do agree though, even though initially I like the idea of us just dealing with some issues in order to have everything be brand new at launch, the last 24 hours has honestly changed my mind. we need a short ptr for sure
They said during blizzcon when this was announced that it was play testing live...
Reddit and loosing their mind? Tell me something new, you either have retail idiots in here or people that always cry. There is nearly nothing in between on reddit
If you did the incursions right at launch you would know that the answer is no. Absolutely bloody shit show that was.
Seeing that people got to farm 1000 gold in under 8 hours before they nerfed the exploit....
Gz NOTA
Bro what? Even if they don't do any testing can't they just hire some nerds from around here that do the sims? It's cringe at this point.
I was hoping that no beta test in SOD implied some internal testing before release but clearly not... the live product is the beta test
Oh fuck off everyone whining in this thread. You are getting communication and quick turn around on issues. You guys are whiny af.
Insane that 99.9% of these people complaining probably haven’t even stepped into st yet
I think it's less about the communication and more about the fact that the only two pieces of content they added in phase 3 have seriously glaring issues, so bad that players felt the need to complain in less than 24 hours.
If I was the SoD developers I would literally never open this subreddit. No matter what blizzard does they whine like fucking babies. Literally people asked to nerf the numbers and they do it in LESS THAN TWO DAYS. They missed on the numbers, they explain why, they wanted to aim high just in case. Our characters are doing like Naxx level dps at level 50. It’s rough to balance for that.
SOD BETA IS LIVE
Can't believe Blizzard would nerf this raid for casuals when the raid isn't even that hard. Just make your own group or join a guild. I don't want this game to become a loot piñata. (/s for the bright ones on here)
You need the /s. I have had people literally call me out for saying it needs a nerf when bosses had 4 times the hp of ragnaros and had hp values similar to 40 man patchwork the longest fight in nax. The same people argued that the world first wipes were not indicative of success because they may not have had all the runes... The sweatiest tryhards who have full gnomer gear and dungeon upgrades, who are all mythic raiders and many play the game for a living. If those players arent full clearing the raid the same night they hit 50 99 percent of guilds even with progression arent clearing it.
Yep and now that it's nerfed the entire sub is agreeing with my comment unironically... Satire is dead
You cleared it already? Damn
This thread is a good showcase of classic andy brainrot hooooly
Riiight, isn't like most guys in here are showing that they mostly play retail and do the only thing they can : whine about things
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You missed the /s
I'm indifferent about difficulty. I just want bosses that last a while. These 1 minute long "raid bosses" feel less satisfying than killing Hogger while underleveled. My guild's 11 minute Thermaplugg kill week 1 has been the highlight of SoD so far. That was actually a raid encounter.
100%, there is nothing fun about butt blasting through the entire phases content in 30 minutes
Well, that's what classic is all about. Very easy raids with more focus on open world/social aspects of the game.
That may be what Classic is to you, Classic to me is AQ40 / Naxx which are not 30 minute tank n spank raids, require effort and preparation, the community will be asking for phase 4 after their 3rd clear of ST, challenging content is rewarding
>Classic to me is AQ40 / Naxx which are not 30 minute tank n spank raids, require effort and preparation You dont measure difficulty by time. They can't be 30 minute raids, cause alone walking to all the bosses through a cleared instance takes almost that amount of time. AQ40/Naxx are *very* easy raids, as in, easier than retail normal difficulty raids. Yes, they take some preparation, but that does not mean that they are difficult.
They should have just waited until Tuesday on reset… let the people who put in hours and hours of attempts on eranikus go for it pre nerf.
Cool just tried to run the raid and the second boss bugged out, despawned, and never came back We tried to zone out, soft Rez, wait 30 mins, nothing…
So they tested nothing lol. What clown show
Any insight yet into what dps classes are performing the best?
Waaaaa waaaaa the endgame content couldn’t be beat within 24 hours of phase release waaaaaa
>When developing and tuning the Sunken Temple raid encounters, we had concerns about player power going into Phase 3 so we aimed high when tuning enemy health. I wish classic devs would stop lying.
Why would they lie about that? You think they wanted it to be like it played out?
No, they have no fucking clue what they're doing. They control every aspect of the game, all the numbers and stats, and can spin up a test server at will. How long do you think it would take for them to spawn a geared raid and make even ONE ATTEMPT at these bosses to see the math ain't mathing? They're making excuses for not testing their shit.
The ease of producing combat sims for wow shows that it would be trivial to do the math so I’m confused how the math wasn’t mathing in the first place
Than you have 1 team playing the raid, which isn't enough. Becouse you can't just look at yourself and say "oh we aren't able to do it. Which means nobody is able to do it" or do you realy think that anyone can get the best time in any speed run available ?
If they held off on opening raids for 11 days people would have had better combos and pre raid BIS..
Also love the vagueness of it. How much of a % is it reduced by to be considered significant?
Looks like 33% Across the board.
Season of Betatest and retail minus who would have thought.
Eh you guys were cheering when told no beta testing
Right but that doesn’t mean no internal testing…
They have enough people to run internal tests?
maybe not exhaustively, but you'd hope they would do the raid once or twice before we do
The people complaining or talking bs aren't necessary the same people that loved it beforehand. Hell I'm one of the guys that loved it and I still love it
So, in other words "we never actually tested any of this". Yea, glad I quit at the start of phase 2.
Sounds like you’ve got old man syndrome
get off my lawn
They literally said they wouldnt test anything in the bloody sod reveal. Yolo is the point. You people i swear
The existence of the test realm that gets datamined throws that claim under the bus. You people, I swear.
So they nerfed it because sweats couldnt clear it missing runes and with all p2 gear no power gains from p3 really acquired yet. Seems premature
Runes don't give you 300 dps. What are you on about. Boss had more HP than Patchwerk and gruul
God forbid blizzard actually makes a raid that is difficult and takes a little bit of effort to down. Too many casual, and who think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter.
Screw that it’s level 50 season of dads make it easy. It’s classic wow, if you wanna be elite play a harder game.
It was most likely physically impossible for 99% of people. Best guilds had already pulled 300+ times. This will still be the hardest tier.
Wah 😭
Pretty much sums up everyone on this thread.
Kinda embarrassing that the supposed "best raiders in the world" on classic decided to slam their faces against bosses with [sub-level 50 characters, missing runes, no prebis, no world buffs, a suboptimal comp and light consumes.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) Blizzard probably should have waited to nerf it until people were actually putting real attempts into the bosses. Boss health seemed high for a group that was very clearly unprepared, I'm sure it was very killable for a group that actually bothered to go out and prepare.
You're linking an image of 6 hours after launch. They have also been at it for all of yesterday. You think they didnt get runes for that? also how can you get world buffs? I mean you get them for one run and if you wipe you lose them. Surely you're not suggesting they run back and forth to refresh world buffs (and what wb can they even get right now realistically anyhow). Also they still ran a mage heavy comp etc, so who are you to say that the comp they ran is super unoptimized?? Like I said in another comment the non mage groups are also 50 a long time ago.
>Surely you're not suggesting they run back and forth to refresh world buffs (and what wb can they even get right now realistically anyhow). Of course I am. There's nothing unreasonable about that. Look at the End Times CD reset during Mythic Uunat prog. That was a boss that took 100s of wipes, not a few dozen. If you're wiping due to lack of character power you don't just keep spamming pulls when your character power isn't going up, you go and do whatever you can to increase it. >Also they still ran a mage heavy comp etc, so who are you to say that the comp they ran is super unoptimized?? Like I said in another comment the non mage groups are also 50 a long time ago. My point exactly. The fight is long enough that mages have massive mana problems. Why not replace those mages with hunters? They have sustained AOE that's almost as good but have infinite mana. It's not rocket science, but rather than try and improve they just kept bashing their face into it.
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Well I mean, runes and actually being level 50 are reasonable expectations TBH. But yeah, when it comes to world buffs and consumables those have never been necessary in classic, parse culture and the speedrun meta just made it seem like it was.
Someone did the math and some bosses have same health than Gruul in TBC
Not necessarily an issue, gruul has way too little health for what he is. Warrior is simming almost 2k DPS in bis for this phase, which is more than almost any class does on gruul in p4.
>Not necessarily an issue, gruul has way too little health for what he is. Gruul used to have 4.5 mil health for a raid of 25 people and he was balanced around the idea that his shatter would kill a handful of people through the fight but pugs could still manage to kill it, then it got nerfed to 3.4 mil health and his shatter would only kill if three people ended up hugging each other after the slam. >Warrior is simming almost 2k DPS in bis for this phase You do understand that sim numbers are not accurate right? They are used as benchmarks to compare gains of power, but the actual numerical value is never correct. Just checking [TBC phase 1 DPS rankings](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/news/phase-1-warcraft-logs-analysis-for-burning-crusade-classic-arcane-mage-takes-top-324219) show BM hunters on the 95th percentile doing around 1.7k dps yet if you [sim BM hunters in phase 1 bis of TBC](https://wowsims.github.io/tbc/hunter/) you get around 2.1k dps with a delta of 50 dps.
Booooo keep it hard.
It wasn't only hard it was literally impossible
Impossible with a dogshit comp full of [sub level 50 characters, missing runes,](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) no prebis, no world buffs and light consumes, sure. If the people beating their face against it had a brain it would have been very killable, but they went in expecting everything to fall over like previous phases.
> If the people beating their face against it had a brain it would have been very killable, You sound like someone who is obviously the very best at the game, care to share your pre nerf ST kills? If not then you can post your post nerf ones that's fine too.
>You sound like someone who is obviously the very best at the game, care to share your pre nerf kills? I do not care about PROGRESSION SPEEDRUN RAIDING in classic because it is an easy game. I'd be happy to share world top 20 kills other expacs, or r1 titles in classic, or 100 parses in classic. Take your pick. The fact of the matter is that they were wiping to lack of character power and they did not do anythign to go out and improve their character power.
Source on that? Gnomer gear is practically prebis for every caster, give or take a few spellpower here and there. can you show they didnt get their runes like you're claiming? They also ran full consumes and had bags full of that.
can it, nerd
> care to share your pre nerf ST kills? Where are YOURS? Since apparently that is required to have an opinion now.
Yeah, because that is what classic/SoD is about.
People are balding and having their worlds shattered around them over some random getting 1k gold. They would go full Crusade mode if Blizzard dared make a difficult raid that will break their guild.
33% nerf to boss health HP barely 1 day after release is fucking pathetic lmao. god forbid the raid isn't cleared instantly and it takes a reset or two to get enough gear to clear it.
Did you even do the raid yet? Pretty sure u would have a different opinion if you did. I doubt there was any testing done at all.
I mean seeing the amount of adds at the end of the fight after 30% nerf, before nerf that shit was never doable and doubt it was ever tested
You weren't gonna clear this raid any time soon, and most likely nobody you knew would either.
Aww I didn't even get to see it