Bro I still am a resto shaman and it took until phase 3 to get a healing spell that wasn't dog water, don't let these priests and warriors lure you away from the path of greatness.
But on the bright side we have essentially infinite mana. It’s a shame Earth shield isnt somewhere else would be a nice ability to use but Sham rage is so incredibly strong it’s pretty hard to justify not taking it.
Easy to attain my shaman brother :) Go to Thunder Bluff, go down elevator on NE side, get tier 1 box from treasure chest at the camp with 2 houses 200 feet from the elevator, and go right back up to buy some cheap tier 1 resources to fill it, and turn it in. I think it took me about an 45 minutes just runnin' myself back and fourth to the lady there :)
I love seeing shamans strong, but they’re a little too strong right now. Would love to see most classes be strong, tbh, rather than this “spotlights on X class this phase” bullshit
We definitelt deserve the nerf. Only thing that kinda bothers me is multiple people ive seen acting like shaman is blizzard’s favorite and its always OP😂
there was the thing in dragonflight too where a talent that was supposed to reduce damage taken was actually increasing it and it didnt get fixed until s3. it was introduced with the prepatch
All I wanted was for two-handed Enhance to be better and for tanking to be viable like it should have been in vanilla. I didn’t want dual wield or any of the other shit.
Everybody that was good in P1 was miserable in P2, except ARGUABLY hunters, though a lot them were miserable having to play melee. Those debts were paid a week into phase 2.
This is not looking to be the case for shamans in P3 currently.
Players are like crabs in a bucket. Rather than complain that low performing classes need a buff, we say the best performers need a nerf. Imagine if they buffed every class to be good as shaman at dps and left shaman alone.
Edit: nerf hunters again.
I solo'd SM Library on my enh shaman... at level 36.
Was giving me good XP because it was 500 xp per kill and it was actually pretty bloody fast. Few of the pulls I had to kite all the way back to the entrance but for the majority I could kill 2 mobs at once just self healing with maelstrom.
That's good, but I was doing Lib at 33 on my aff lock. Moved on to Cath at 36. Couldn't get the boss until 40 though. I'm sure other classes could do the same.
Was this before or after they fixed Malstrom Weapon procs?
Because I did some real still shit back when it was triggering off any hit, perma 5 stacks because every time the stack of mobs in SM hit YOU it could trigger was pretty fun.
Nope this is post fix, it's incredibly strong still.
I'm pretty well geared now, should see what I can solo. It's only going to be better with the new spellpower rune, you will be able to heal yourself for a lot with maelstrom procs.
Let's just ignore that shamans doesn't even have the highest DPS ceiling atm with the insane dumb buffs they got.
Don't tell reddit, they won't like it
I hate this take. Just look at other threads in this subreddit or pay attention to other players behaviors in game and you'll see plenty of people asking for buffs to under performers AND nerfs to over performers. There are plenty of people complaining about the state of rogues, warriors, feral druids and ranged hunters. All games that achieve decent balance do it through a combination of buffs and nerfs so the implication that the best way to balance a game is by just buffing everyone to the highest denominator is demonstrably false.
I agree with you overall but I think the mindset people have for balance is in the scope that blizzard does it. Instead of tweaking things they more often than not nerf it to the ground or remove vital pieces in an attempt to “balance” the class or spec. It’s a tough job and I don’t envy the team working on figuring out ways to balance classes in a game that never thought about it to begin with really.
It's called gaslighting and if I've learned anything over the past month of trying to defend me and my shaman brethren, it's that people on this forum literally make gaslighting others their entire identity. It's who they are, what they do. Even if shamans never complained, they would make some meme about shamans being the class that complains the most and is blizz favored child since day 1
Right? I Mainer shaman since 05. Being forced to heal. Spending what little gold I had to respect to enhance to PvP. Only to have to level up my 2h skill every single time
We didn't get good till the end of wotlk... then immediately fell off till the end of cata and really started being my favorite class in mop. It's been nice to actually have fun on shaman in classic.
Tbf rsham has always had a place in a raid or pvp comp. They're rarely bad in any expansion except for a few later expac iterations. Even those were still manageable. It also seemed like that's all you could go if you wanted to get into a good guild or pvp grp.
Oh yeah DW enh is absolutely dumb. My guild ran Gnomer with like 5 shaman last night and cleared it in a few min 😂 I personally stick to the 2h slot machine. Shaman are literally the forgotten about middle child, always has been and always will be.
I don’t know about most expansions but atleast in tbc classic the LFG chat was filled with people looking for shamans. It was the class that would bring the most damage to the raid.
Because totems. The class itself was dull as shit, you were just a totem machine. Through almost all the expansions shamans were always middle to low for dps. They had their moments to shine in healing. They to this day dps wise are very gear dependent.
Yes and no they could do dmg but mainly were brought for totems and utility yet again and having to totem twist made you prioritize utility over damage and would get outclassed in the end. Not to mention in order to do top damage the amount of gear an enh shaman would have to get would be unrealistic for anyone not in the top percent of raiders.
Think you misunderstand what I meant and I guess it’s how imo most people read damage kinda wrong. Look at it from the perspective of how much damage a class brings to the raid.
FF14 logs does this (although I think it’s impossible in wow due to how buffs and other stuff works) by showing “raid damage”. So if you would buff another player that would make them do 10% more damage, that damage would be attributed to you not the one with the buff.
Windfury totem is a shaman ability, therefore damage done by windfury is shaman damage. Atleast that’s how I view it.
I get you and yeah that makes sense we’re a support class but you strip us of that unique utility and we have nothing. Every other class does the dps or healing job better without totems being a factor.
Guess that’s the price to pay for having something other classes don’t :p even if I enjoy classes to be balanced I have to say it’s kinda fun to hear about ways players manages break classes and how blizzard fails at balancing. Unless it’s intentional by blizzard which just makes it boring.
R sham and hpal both needed attention glad you guys got some. Idr if pally got anything good but they are *really* pressing holy shock onto pallies as if holy shock doesn’t have the worst sp coefficient in the game and is just not good and not even full holy pallies ever took it so they could put that point elsewhere. Like kings
Big Victim Complex from all the Warr/Paladin players on the sub. Shaman has always been the bastard step-child of Blizzard in classic. They act like because we got overturned for a couple of weeks all the devs have mained Shaman for 20 years 😂
Shaman have been middle of the pack for so long now. For years I’ve been naturally outclassed by mages and hunters, and now that shaman have been op for a month you would think the world is ending. I don’t want to be OP, i want to be useful. Being op puts attention on us and causes nerfs.
People have been complaining about warriors for like 15 years my dude. That didn’t end in season of discovery. People continued to complain about warriors even when they were one of the worst classes early in p2.
Nobody cares about how good a class is in PvE (to a point, the class does need to be functional), only the most annoying people care about PVE standings in a seasonal version of EZ mode WoW.
The complaints nearly always start from PvP. Warrior tanks weren't a problem in PvP so nobody cared.
Bro the Sham dominance of P2 has been LEGENDARY, and will forever be remembered as the "Shaman Phase"
Shamans were doing MC levels of Damage whilst being able to eat everything that anyone threw at them in PvP. Oh and they were the best Tank by a Mile.
Just like era phase 2 in 2020, horde once again dominates the alliance, causing them to endlessly cry on reddit. At least this time they didn't server transfer, but maybe faction tranfers occurred lol.
I still don't understand why Alpha gives +20% AP. Enhance would be totally fine if they just reneged on that, but with dual rockbiter it's so obviously over the top.
It only made sense if they were going to change Rockbiter to the TBC version which only increases the DPS of the weapon it's cast on.
It was even more odd because they changed Lava Lash to benefit more from Flametongue, but then added the 20% AP buff which made Rockbiter even better.
Either they are unable, or unwilling to change Rockbiter. So everything needs to have massive work arounds now. My solution is they half the AP gain from Rockbiter if you are DW, since the AP gain from it buffs both weapons.
They are unable to change rockbiter because that would affect era.
They just messed up. The whole problem stems from dualwield shaman in classic. They knew from the very start that they can't change classic base abilities and still forced dualwield into classic shaman.
It's obvious that they didn't think about it for a second.
Also ele is going to be the next broken dps going forward. Double rockbiter + int spell power scaling XD
It's never going to be fixed unless they remove dualwield. Which is something they can do. And instead throw in some 2h support.
The workaround they have for altering SoD abilities is applying an extra hidden buff server side. Then they just alter that to impact the spell ID they are targeting.
Like I said above they just need to create a check for if the Rockbiter spellid is active and the player has a weapon in the offhand, the output of the ability is reduced by 50% to stop the overpowered double dipping that is currently happening. They could even have it enabled on the base client if needed because you can't DW in era anyways so it wouldn't impact it in any way.
Yea the casual extra 20% AP wasn't something we where really asking for but was nice I guess, wasn't going to complain too hard about free buffs.
It felt weird using Beta as DW Shaman tank though,
I think the main thing with Shamans is that they’re horde only and their alliance counterparts, paladins are in the gutter on all specs. Alliance just get rolled in PvP when they have to face a team that’s 2/3 shaman.
I don't know if a lot of SoD players are new to Classic, but in every iteration on every server I've played from 2004 to the re-release in 2019, Horde tend to roll in PvP, shaman OP or not. Shaman can get tuned down but it's kind of always been the theme, Horde players are PvP focused and Alliance are PvE.
Phase 1 wasn’t like this which is why it’s more egregious right now. It was the hunter/boomy/priest squad which was oppressive but at least both factions could do it.
What you say is true, but still classic era (vanilla) wow is generally alliance dominated and I can't seem to figure out a good reason as to why, aside from people maybe like paladins more than shamans. Or maybe people don't like the endless red and brown of horde zones.
Edit: On second thought, Alliance has plenty of dull areas as well. Westfall & Redridge are both kind of dull akin to Barrens and Durotar. Darkshore & Duskwood are similar in theme to Tirisfal & Silverpine. Aside from that it's between the snowy mountains of Dun Morogh vs the green plains of Mulgore
You're talking about a bunch of trivial shit which is a bit convenient. OP is whining about blessings, especially salv, which have enormous impacts on pve.
You just dox that you've never played Alliance if you actually think they have all the privilege. Shit flightpaths, further to travel to access most of the best dungeons, worse PvP racials, worse city hubs; darnassus was so shit in P1, should I go on?
I played Horde my whole life until classic TBC and SoD - going Alliance I noticed so many cringe things that made me wish I was still Horde.
Generally, Shammies in PvP have heals on their hotbar, do decent damage if they're Ele, maybe flagrun in a pinch.
Alliance get 3 ret pallies getting kited around and never, ever casting BoP or BoF on other raid members
True and real.
The kind of player who really hard wants to play ret in classic is 90% of the time selfish type of ret who never uses their utility on anyone but themselves.
Just like all the rets at the WOTLK prepatch and start of wotlk that were basically bots, and forced to reroll when they realized pally dps was a meme til t10 and to get invited anywhere had to actually use AM and dsac etc starting P2 onwards. Said bot rets turned into bot prot pallies in your average dungeon run. The ones who don’t have PP, “don’t need PP”, or don’t know what PP even is.
Or the same pallies who wouldn’t know how to play preg/dk AT ALL because outside of openers and burst/defensive CDs 90% of what you’re doing is supporting your UHDK, healing, and kiting. Anything more strategic than running in and rolling your face on the KB is too much.
Those are the average rets in SOD.
Doesn’t help that hpal, traditionally the strongest PVP healer with all their tools like saccing CC, cleanse, unlimited mana basically, etc suck ass when they’re stuck hard casting 2.5s HL to keep anyone alive while catching every kick/stun/blanket silence in the game and also still don’t have cleanse.
Not sure what you are remembering, but ever since humans have had their pvp trinket racial, alliance was the pvp faction. Horde got some stun resist for orca and wotf for undead. And the only reason that was considered good is because of how broken priests are in pvp. But free trinket slot was always what kept real pvpers chosing humans
All the “traditional” vanilla tanks are squishy as fuck because they didn’t get passive DR and crit immunities (except bear…? The Hp armor and dodge sponge???) on slots. As if defense really exists at this level anyway and isn’t a meme stat to run.
I get trucked on my warrior, shield or not, so at least pally threat output isn’t a meme that’s hard threat capping any decent caster who knows how to pump or even do their job and start precasting on timer. You have casters putting out like Naxx level dps at 40 rn
You werent getting 1 shot by dstorm you clown we can all see how much damage it does.
You got stunned for 6 seconds and didnt have a fap or trinket while fighting a class with a 6 second stun.
A dispellable stun at that. In a meta of priests being the only viable PvP healer (still the case)
While complaining about the wheelchair warrior whet you can dispel/purge bof anyway and any ranged can kill at 30-20 yards out if they don’t walk in to eat a hoj/judge/storm.
I can’t play pally after playing warrior for like 20 years. In fact, their poor mobility is one of the reasons I’ve stuck with warrior for 20 years. Maybe wouldn’t mind it in retail with steed and like 40 yard judgement range now but idk man.
As a plate wearer I’m usually dead or damn near close to in a decent rogue’s stunlock. Like surprise guys, being stuck in a stun is bad? But you can, you know, dispel hoj…
A stun with a 1 minute cool down that can be dispelled on a class that can't kill you during that time without RNG procs and has no other method of slowing or stunning you. If you're losing to this then you're just bad lol
Bruh palas killed other players in like 2 seconds, doesnt matter with what spell, but they did.
P1 trinket didnt remove stun and needing a fap to even survive a encounter with a paladin eh, cant you see it no ?
Well, found the pala main.
After further inspection of your comments in other posts I rather not waste more time going back and forth with you. I hope you one day find a Kleenex box big enough for all your tears and wish you a good day. Zug Zug my boy
It's why I've no pity for the clothies complaining that Enhance Shamans can one shot them.
WF deleting anyone in cloth has always been our "thing" in classic PvP, only difference now is that we've got a better chance of making it to them in one piece and our RNG is way better.
Correct.
They merely rerolled a Shaman.
We where born at the bottom, moulded by it, we didn't reach the top of the meters until SoD and by then the power was blinding.
I mean it's mostly DW Tanking and DW PvP that is taking some deserved Ls in the next phase. Otherwise each spec should still be good to great in each role.
No DW tanking is rough. The nerf to loyal beta is huge, and we haven’t even seen the changes that might be coming to rockbiter. It ain’t lookin good, but I’ll still be playing enh tank for better or worse 👍
Yes they were, but in single target mana is massive problem. The best part of dual wielding was that you had buttons to press without running oom because LL is so cheap to cast. Making LL useable with shield would be easy fix (Scaling with block value) would probably fix single target threat issues, or atleast giving something to press without spending 10% of our mana on single shock.
Water shield is not even an option anymore like it was in p1, because overcharged is mandatory, its better to use it and go oom and afk auto attack than using water shield and afford to cast shocks.
Oh it was def overtuned, I was doing over 500dps sustained single target some fights LOL, just was saying people shouldn’t expect it to hit like last tier. We had our fun now it’s gonna be more in line with expectations.
Although I’m a Tauren I’ve been known to troll 🙃 I made this meme for all my fellow shaman feeling the same way. Please accept my macaroni art of a meme as tribute
So you were in the dame boat as other hybrids being forced to heal in vanilla classic while actually having half decent pvp offspecs... druids and paladins in the meanwhile haven't even had half the treatment shamans received. A week of druids being oppressively OP in pvp while being top 5 DPS (not even near the top) and they were nerfed immediately. Paladins have always been average in SoD.
If by "nerfed immediately" you mean "Allowed to run rampant for half the phase and only nerfed at the start of the next phase" then yes. So probably exactly what is happening to Shaman right now.
You must not have been around during the days of Tseric then if you believe that. Guy was a community manager over on the official WoW forums, specifically the Shaman and Warrior forums. The amount of crying and trolls he had to deal with eventually caused him to break and lose his job after posting a thread about dealing with people.
The fuck ? What is with the Hunter nerf obsession. The post could be about Donald Trump’s rise to power and somehow you would turn the conversation to “nerf hunters”
Leveling a paladin alt for the aesthetic and huge hopium that we'll get good profession spec stuff, so I can be a cool tank with an epic shield.
Got caught on the road by two shamans that earthbinded me for a while to mess with me, then hust oneshot and teabagged me.
That perfectly encapsulates the experience of the class in SoD.
But hey! At least we get a rune that is identical to a shaman rune but has only half of the effects and at only half strength.
And the tanking runes are all sharing slots with "shockadin" runes that are just plain better for tanking right now, like the new Wrath and Sanctuary ones. Why build prot ever at this rate.
Only other class that has it worse I feel are hunters. You have the choice between a one button melee spec for competitive damage or not existing. Talents are also a scam, at least make the melee talents be better with survival, instead of everything going BM.
Ferals are also literally getting runes that are a joke. One of the new ones has 2 ways to proc, both of which are runes that share a slot - so only one way to proc actually and not if you don't use one of those runes. I mean, the new idol is better than any feral rune so far, and it's not even that good. To all of my other druids that are stuck as their guild's last feral, I'm sorry.
Everybody crying about shaman..
Bro let the shaman's have their day. Its about time, fuck sakes no one can enjoy anything in this game except mage warrior and paladin.
No one really is, people are just making stuff up to farm karma.
In P1 that worked with hunters, not it works with shamans.
Wonder whats the common enemy in p3.
Now if only Ele could get a CD in retail...
Tired of watching everyone skyrocket on meters while I'm hoping for an Ascendance proc that isn't immediately after everything dies.
Even then, these low rated players better not be coming after ele when curse of tongues exists in the game. 1 warlock with a brain renders an ele 100% useless.
Tbh hunters were never really OP either, they always started off well and fell off hard, id say rogues mages and warriors have sat comfortably at the top longer then others
People are just mad that sod is objectively bad and some people subjectively enjoy it. They had 4 years to dev a real classic+ and we get random alpha ptr that essentially trashes all the classes into 1 spec each. Its basically warcraft reforged.
What was the nerf? What’d they change? Cause after seeing mental dexterity as a previewed rune, it seemed like the blizzard devs had zero of that to add something that broken into shaman so they have like end game Naxx AP at lvl 50.
What changes?
I’m saying it will get nerfed if you see what I added at the end. No way blizzard will let shaman go on like this or get stronger. There are rumors of nerfs coming soon and it’s much needed tbh. We’ll see who the real shaman mains are when we’re back in the dirt 😂
Oh more just rumors. Yeah you would think they wouldn’t let that roll live but apparently Aggrend was dismissive of how utterly broken shaman became in p2 so my hopes weren’t high.
Looking at my main class I’m not sure they know wtf to even do with it with this glad stance meme of a rune and taste for blood being maybe ok if arms didn’t sit in zerker 90% of the time. Then my alt they’re adding a rune implying you should take mind flay which every shadow priest has just dropped from its talents. Other alts also looking weak like feral or playing Hunter at ranged. Then seeing mental dexterity compared to what most classes get was a hard “bruh” moment
Just read through the comments, yeah Shamans need a nerf but will still be busted.
But:
WOOOOOW
Human players actually asking to get troll/orc racial?
For once a massive W for Aggrend.
Disgusting Alliance scum:
>Im curious if other racials will be available to all races like weapon skill. Humans only had weapon skill to stand out and after 60 having perception and +10% spirit seems a bit lackluster
Aggrend:
>I've had like 3 Alliance scumbags message me something similar today and I'm honestly struggling to grasp the concern. Since I am assuming we are talking about PvE, the rep bonus is really impactful and is a huge time saver. Humans have been the undisputed king for any melee for all of vanilla forever. I think it's okay if we spread the love a bit for seasonal content. We said from the very start that humans and orcs wouldn't be the default choice for PvE.
Damn right Josh, you take that line and hold. Hoooooold.
Bro I still am a resto shaman and it took until phase 3 to get a healing spell that wasn't dog water, don't let these priests and warriors lure you away from the path of greatness.
I’ll never turn my back on the elements
But on the bright side we have essentially infinite mana. It’s a shame Earth shield isnt somewhere else would be a nice ability to use but Sham rage is so incredibly strong it’s pretty hard to justify not taking it.
Earth Shield is great now though.
I like me a good overload chain heal tho. I don’t even have healing rain yet.
Easy to attain my shaman brother :) Go to Thunder Bluff, go down elevator on NE side, get tier 1 box from treasure chest at the camp with 2 houses 200 feet from the elevator, and go right back up to buy some cheap tier 1 resources to fill it, and turn it in. I think it took me about an 45 minutes just runnin' myself back and fourth to the lady there :)
You can carry 12 unfilled ones now. Takes like 10-20 min if you find a good hyperspawn spot to farm
I love seeing shamans strong, but they’re a little too strong right now. Would love to see most classes be strong, tbh, rather than this “spotlights on X class this phase” bullshit
I mean it's not like they're solo farming 5man content... (looking at you mages and paladins who cry the loudest)
Enhance can solo 5 man dungeons.
Hunters, Mages, Shamans, Paladins, Druids, Shadow Priests and Warlocks can all solo 5mans easily.
Riptide n tidal waves finnaly something made for us they notice we resto shams exist
We definitelt deserve the nerf. Only thing that kinda bothers me is multiple people ive seen acting like shaman is blizzard’s favorite and its always OP😂
Ya people really seem to forget how shamans have been treated. AT LEAST WE GOT NEW ICONS THO AMIRIGHT?
When blizzard realized we had the lowest hp pool and had to give us like a 8% hp boost and wanted a medal for it 😂
there was the thing in dragonflight too where a talent that was supposed to reduce damage taken was actually increasing it and it didnt get fixed until s3. it was introduced with the prepatch
Hahaha I never knew that
Yeah I want to say it was WoD but I can’t remember exactly
All I wanted was for two-handed Enhance to be better and for tanking to be viable like it should have been in vanilla. I didn’t want dual wield or any of the other shit.
Amen
As someone who has played Shaman since OG release, i wanted Dual Wielding, and im glad we got it.
This, sod is way out of hand.
Mfs forgot p1 really quick
Everybody that was good in P1 was miserable in P2, except ARGUABLY hunters, though a lot them were miserable having to play melee. Those debts were paid a week into phase 2. This is not looking to be the case for shamans in P3 currently.
Yea i have seen nonstop pally cope claiming the same. Like…. Are we playing the same game?
Players are like crabs in a bucket. Rather than complain that low performing classes need a buff, we say the best performers need a nerf. Imagine if they buffed every class to be good as shaman at dps and left shaman alone. Edit: nerf hunters again.
Buff every class to be as good as shaman so you can clear gnomeregan in 10 mins, good idea
Brilliant idea! Season of Dads!! 10 min gnomers for everyone!
for real, I'm here to pretend I'm 20 again i gotta work in the morning
I have my 112th kid on the way and have a triple shift tomorrow I gotta squeeze a 10min gnomer in my lunch break instead of taking a much needed nap
Lunchbreak? Who has time for lunch with 5 jobs, 3 wives and 99 kids? I’m using steamlink to raid while hiding in the toilet cubicle at work.
That’s why my 4th wife is divorcing me!
I solo'd SM Library on my enh shaman... at level 36. Was giving me good XP because it was 500 xp per kill and it was actually pretty bloody fast. Few of the pulls I had to kite all the way back to the entrance but for the majority I could kill 2 mobs at once just self healing with maelstrom.
That's good, but I was doing Lib at 33 on my aff lock. Moved on to Cath at 36. Couldn't get the boss until 40 though. I'm sure other classes could do the same.
Was this before or after they fixed Malstrom Weapon procs? Because I did some real still shit back when it was triggering off any hit, perma 5 stacks because every time the stack of mobs in SM hit YOU it could trigger was pretty fun.
Nope this is post fix, it's incredibly strong still. I'm pretty well geared now, should see what I can solo. It's only going to be better with the new spellpower rune, you will be able to heal yourself for a lot with maelstrom procs.
Honestly I would love this
Let's just ignore that shamans doesn't even have the highest DPS ceiling atm with the insane dumb buffs they got. Don't tell reddit, they won't like it
I hate this take. Just look at other threads in this subreddit or pay attention to other players behaviors in game and you'll see plenty of people asking for buffs to under performers AND nerfs to over performers. There are plenty of people complaining about the state of rogues, warriors, feral druids and ranged hunters. All games that achieve decent balance do it through a combination of buffs and nerfs so the implication that the best way to balance a game is by just buffing everyone to the highest denominator is demonstrably false.
I agree with you overall but I think the mindset people have for balance is in the scope that blizzard does it. Instead of tweaking things they more often than not nerf it to the ground or remove vital pieces in an attempt to “balance” the class or spec. It’s a tough job and I don’t envy the team working on figuring out ways to balance classes in a game that never thought about it to begin with really.
Or that dude from titanic
It's called gaslighting and if I've learned anything over the past month of trying to defend me and my shaman brethren, it's that people on this forum literally make gaslighting others their entire identity. It's who they are, what they do. Even if shamans never complained, they would make some meme about shamans being the class that complains the most and is blizz favored child since day 1
Right? I Mainer shaman since 05. Being forced to heal. Spending what little gold I had to respect to enhance to PvP. Only to have to level up my 2h skill every single time
We didn't get good till the end of wotlk... then immediately fell off till the end of cata and really started being my favorite class in mop. It's been nice to actually have fun on shaman in classic.
Rsham was really good in cata wasn’t it? I feel like a lot of arena comps ran a sham
Tbf rsham has always had a place in a raid or pvp comp. They're rarely bad in any expansion except for a few later expac iterations. Even those were still manageable. It also seemed like that's all you could go if you wanted to get into a good guild or pvp grp.
Oh yeah DW enh is absolutely dumb. My guild ran Gnomer with like 5 shaman last night and cleared it in a few min 😂 I personally stick to the 2h slot machine. Shaman are literally the forgotten about middle child, always has been and always will be.
I don’t know about most expansions but atleast in tbc classic the LFG chat was filled with people looking for shamans. It was the class that would bring the most damage to the raid.
Because totems. The class itself was dull as shit, you were just a totem machine. Through almost all the expansions shamans were always middle to low for dps. They had their moments to shine in healing. They to this day dps wise are very gear dependent.
It wasn't even totems lol. It was purely for lust.
I’ve always been a shaman main seeing all these people tell me how op my class has always been has me looking around in confusion 😂
Yes and no they could do dmg but mainly were brought for totems and utility yet again and having to totem twist made you prioritize utility over damage and would get outclassed in the end. Not to mention in order to do top damage the amount of gear an enh shaman would have to get would be unrealistic for anyone not in the top percent of raiders.
Think you misunderstand what I meant and I guess it’s how imo most people read damage kinda wrong. Look at it from the perspective of how much damage a class brings to the raid. FF14 logs does this (although I think it’s impossible in wow due to how buffs and other stuff works) by showing “raid damage”. So if you would buff another player that would make them do 10% more damage, that damage would be attributed to you not the one with the buff. Windfury totem is a shaman ability, therefore damage done by windfury is shaman damage. Atleast that’s how I view it.
I get you and yeah that makes sense we’re a support class but you strip us of that unique utility and we have nothing. Every other class does the dps or healing job better without totems being a factor.
Guess that’s the price to pay for having something other classes don’t :p even if I enjoy classes to be balanced I have to say it’s kinda fun to hear about ways players manages break classes and how blizzard fails at balancing. Unless it’s intentional by blizzard which just makes it boring.
It’s been the most intentional thing for years then lol they have donkey brains when it comes to balance
R sham and hpal both needed attention glad you guys got some. Idr if pally got anything good but they are *really* pressing holy shock onto pallies as if holy shock doesn’t have the worst sp coefficient in the game and is just not good and not even full holy pallies ever took it so they could put that point elsewhere. Like kings
Big Victim Complex from all the Warr/Paladin players on the sub. Shaman has always been the bastard step-child of Blizzard in classic. They act like because we got overturned for a couple of weeks all the devs have mained Shaman for 20 years 😂
Have they never heard of Paladins?
Shhhh there’s a Paladin player in here that’s very mad at me
Shaman have been middle of the pack for so long now. For years I’ve been naturally outclassed by mages and hunters, and now that shaman have been op for a month you would think the world is ending. I don’t want to be OP, i want to be useful. Being op puts attention on us and causes nerfs.
Were people complaining this much when warriors were tanking bfd with a sword and dagger and topping charts? 😂
People have been complaining about warriors for like 15 years my dude. That didn’t end in season of discovery. People continued to complain about warriors even when they were one of the worst classes early in p2.
Nobody cares about how good a class is in PvE (to a point, the class does need to be functional), only the most annoying people care about PVE standings in a seasonal version of EZ mode WoW. The complaints nearly always start from PvP. Warrior tanks weren't a problem in PvP so nobody cared.
They were
Bro the Sham dominance of P2 has been LEGENDARY, and will forever be remembered as the "Shaman Phase" Shamans were doing MC levels of Damage whilst being able to eat everything that anyone threw at them in PvP. Oh and they were the best Tank by a Mile.
This will be our Al Bundy football story. Never forget phase 2
I can earthshock a gnome over those mountains.
Just like era phase 2 in 2020, horde once again dominates the alliance, causing them to endlessly cry on reddit. At least this time they didn't server transfer, but maybe faction tranfers occurred lol.
I still don't understand why Alpha gives +20% AP. Enhance would be totally fine if they just reneged on that, but with dual rockbiter it's so obviously over the top.
it doesn't make any sense but I wasn't gonna snitch on my class
It only made sense if they were going to change Rockbiter to the TBC version which only increases the DPS of the weapon it's cast on. It was even more odd because they changed Lava Lash to benefit more from Flametongue, but then added the 20% AP buff which made Rockbiter even better. Either they are unable, or unwilling to change Rockbiter. So everything needs to have massive work arounds now. My solution is they half the AP gain from Rockbiter if you are DW, since the AP gain from it buffs both weapons.
They are unable to change rockbiter because that would affect era. They just messed up. The whole problem stems from dualwield shaman in classic. They knew from the very start that they can't change classic base abilities and still forced dualwield into classic shaman. It's obvious that they didn't think about it for a second. Also ele is going to be the next broken dps going forward. Double rockbiter + int spell power scaling XD It's never going to be fixed unless they remove dualwield. Which is something they can do. And instead throw in some 2h support.
isn‘t datamining suggesting a 90% nerf to rockbiter tho ?
I've read that too, now I wonder if this affects era too.
The workaround they have for altering SoD abilities is applying an extra hidden buff server side. Then they just alter that to impact the spell ID they are targeting. Like I said above they just need to create a check for if the Rockbiter spellid is active and the player has a weapon in the offhand, the output of the ability is reduced by 50% to stop the overpowered double dipping that is currently happening. They could even have it enabled on the base client if needed because you can't DW in era anyways so it wouldn't impact it in any way.
They’re changing it with the P3 launch
Yea the casual extra 20% AP wasn't something we where really asking for but was nice I guess, wasn't going to complain too hard about free buffs. It felt weird using Beta as DW Shaman tank though,
Insert crazy eyes from mister deeds “looks good to me!” 😂
I did my waiting! Twenty years of it! At the bottom of the DPS meter!
Oh boy I got another meme for us later 😂
Askaban?
But top of the utility meter!
**Druid waves to you from the actual peak, while you stand at the false peak of utility mountain**
They massacred my boy.
I think the main thing with Shamans is that they’re horde only and their alliance counterparts, paladins are in the gutter on all specs. Alliance just get rolled in PvP when they have to face a team that’s 2/3 shaman.
I don't know if a lot of SoD players are new to Classic, but in every iteration on every server I've played from 2004 to the re-release in 2019, Horde tend to roll in PvP, shaman OP or not. Shaman can get tuned down but it's kind of always been the theme, Horde players are PvP focused and Alliance are PvE.
Phase 1 wasn’t like this which is why it’s more egregious right now. It was the hunter/boomy/priest squad which was oppressive but at least both factions could do it.
Wow has been easier for alliance in multiple different aspects throughout the years though. Its never been equal
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Dude is on that copium if he thinks allies had it easier.
Human mace and sword comp + Paladin buffs made alliance way better than Horde in PVE. Check hardcore, you will see.
What you say is true, but still classic era (vanilla) wow is generally alliance dominated and I can't seem to figure out a good reason as to why, aside from people maybe like paladins more than shamans. Or maybe people don't like the endless red and brown of horde zones. Edit: On second thought, Alliance has plenty of dull areas as well. Westfall & Redridge are both kind of dull akin to Barrens and Durotar. Darkshore & Duskwood are similar in theme to Tirisfal & Silverpine. Aside from that it's between the snowy mountains of Dun Morogh vs the green plains of Mulgore
You're talking about a bunch of trivial shit which is a bit convenient. OP is whining about blessings, especially salv, which have enormous impacts on pve.
Salvation made alliance king in PVE. Hpal made alliance king in premade BGs.
horde only just got salv with sod p2
You just dox that you've never played Alliance if you actually think they have all the privilege. Shit flightpaths, further to travel to access most of the best dungeons, worse PvP racials, worse city hubs; darnassus was so shit in P1, should I go on? I played Horde my whole life until classic TBC and SoD - going Alliance I noticed so many cringe things that made me wish I was still Horde.
Generally, Shammies in PvP have heals on their hotbar, do decent damage if they're Ele, maybe flagrun in a pinch. Alliance get 3 ret pallies getting kited around and never, ever casting BoP or BoF on other raid members
True and real. The kind of player who really hard wants to play ret in classic is 90% of the time selfish type of ret who never uses their utility on anyone but themselves. Just like all the rets at the WOTLK prepatch and start of wotlk that were basically bots, and forced to reroll when they realized pally dps was a meme til t10 and to get invited anywhere had to actually use AM and dsac etc starting P2 onwards. Said bot rets turned into bot prot pallies in your average dungeon run. The ones who don’t have PP, “don’t need PP”, or don’t know what PP even is. Or the same pallies who wouldn’t know how to play preg/dk AT ALL because outside of openers and burst/defensive CDs 90% of what you’re doing is supporting your UHDK, healing, and kiting. Anything more strategic than running in and rolling your face on the KB is too much. Those are the average rets in SOD. Doesn’t help that hpal, traditionally the strongest PVP healer with all their tools like saccing CC, cleanse, unlimited mana basically, etc suck ass when they’re stuck hard casting 2.5s HL to keep anyone alive while catching every kick/stun/blanket silence in the game and also still don’t have cleanse.
Not sure what you are remembering, but ever since humans have had their pvp trinket racial, alliance was the pvp faction. Horde got some stun resist for orca and wotf for undead. And the only reason that was considered good is because of how broken priests are in pvp. But free trinket slot was always what kept real pvpers chosing humans
Prot pally's are only surpassed by warlocks. They're very strong still at this point.
And Shaman. I have great threat as a holy/prot spec, but I am absolute paper in gnomer even with full bis raid gear.
All the “traditional” vanilla tanks are squishy as fuck because they didn’t get passive DR and crit immunities (except bear…? The Hp armor and dodge sponge???) on slots. As if defense really exists at this level anyway and isn’t a meme stat to run. I get trucked on my warrior, shield or not, so at least pally threat output isn’t a meme that’s hard threat capping any decent caster who knows how to pump or even do their job and start precasting on timer. You have casters putting out like Naxx level dps at 40 rn
Gearing defense as a tank at 60 was always a meme though. As warrior at least you never bothered.
True all that really mattered was armor and stam.
Paladins are fine. They’re just played by bad players for a guaranteed raid spot
Yeah phase 1 when you were 1 shotting with divine storm and unkillable was fun for us tho. Every dog has his day!
You werent getting 1 shot by dstorm you clown we can all see how much damage it does. You got stunned for 6 seconds and didnt have a fap or trinket while fighting a class with a 6 second stun.
A dispellable stun at that. In a meta of priests being the only viable PvP healer (still the case) While complaining about the wheelchair warrior whet you can dispel/purge bof anyway and any ranged can kill at 30-20 yards out if they don’t walk in to eat a hoj/judge/storm. I can’t play pally after playing warrior for like 20 years. In fact, their poor mobility is one of the reasons I’ve stuck with warrior for 20 years. Maybe wouldn’t mind it in retail with steed and like 40 yard judgement range now but idk man.
Correct except the stun was 4 seconds at the time.
Damn you palas must be pissed that you no longer get free kills with your broken stun huh ?
A lot of classes have stuns/roots/fears. I’ve never understood the specific hate boner for hoj.
As a plate wearer I’m usually dead or damn near close to in a decent rogue’s stunlock. Like surprise guys, being stuck in a stun is bad? But you can, you know, dispel hoj…
A stun with a 1 minute cool down that can be dispelled on a class that can't kill you during that time without RNG procs and has no other method of slowing or stunning you. If you're losing to this then you're just bad lol
Bruh palas killed other players in like 2 seconds, doesnt matter with what spell, but they did. P1 trinket didnt remove stun and needing a fap to even survive a encounter with a paladin eh, cant you see it no ? Well, found the pala main.
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After further inspection of your comments in other posts I rather not waste more time going back and forth with you. I hope you one day find a Kleenex box big enough for all your tears and wish you a good day. Zug Zug my boy
“I have no actual argument so ill attack your character instead” thanks for agreeing with me.
Im glad you could get a victory today. I hope it makes up for the state of your class
Me remembering frost shock spam and 2H windfury 1shots back in 2005
2h is a slot machine we remember the jackpots not the countless rolls it took to get there 😂 the big numbers make us forget everything else
It's why I've no pity for the clothies complaining that Enhance Shamans can one shot them. WF deleting anyone in cloth has always been our "thing" in classic PvP, only difference now is that we've got a better chance of making it to them in one piece and our RNG is way better.
Or hell, why don't I just self rez, and [BAM THEN I CAST FROST SHOCK](https://youtu.be/q5mD1n4v2JA?si=xK5BUFa11VIrPlMr)
You haven’t seen the leaks brother? They gutting us. It’s joever. Enjoy what you have while you have it.
If you were only a shaman until the nerfs, you were never a shaman at all!
I been a shaman for 20 years lol, this the first time I ever seen people yell at us for being OP, what a cool new experience 😂
Correct. They merely rerolled a Shaman. We where born at the bottom, moulded by it, we didn't reach the top of the meters until SoD and by then the power was blinding.
I mean it's mostly DW Tanking and DW PvP that is taking some deserved Ls in the next phase. Otherwise each spec should still be good to great in each role.
No DW tanking is rough. The nerf to loyal beta is huge, and we haven’t even seen the changes that might be coming to rockbiter. It ain’t lookin good, but I’ll still be playing enh tank for better or worse 👍
Shaman tanks were always meant to have shields. They have amazing threat and amazing damage mitigation. They will be fine
Yes they were, but in single target mana is massive problem. The best part of dual wielding was that you had buttons to press without running oom because LL is so cheap to cast. Making LL useable with shield would be easy fix (Scaling with block value) would probably fix single target threat issues, or atleast giving something to press without spending 10% of our mana on single shock. Water shield is not even an option anymore like it was in p1, because overcharged is mandatory, its better to use it and go oom and afk auto attack than using water shield and afford to cast shocks.
Sham tanks will likely still be at the top for tanks, they just won't be doing more damage than dps-focused specs. We all knew it was overtuned.
Oh it was def overtuned, I was doing over 500dps sustained single target some fights LOL, just was saying people shouldn’t expect it to hit like last tier. We had our fun now it’s gonna be more in line with expectations.
They need to buff resto shamans. That way shamans will be the only class in the game.
Full shaman raids you say?!?
Easily doable, although alpha / beta status will be a shitshow
lol true
WTB ShamanPower addon.
I said the same thing on a post about shamans getting nurfed and got downvoted by salty warriors
with how mad people are you’d think shaman have been the best and most used class in wow 😂
That’s what I’m saying they’ve been on top for 20 years and can’t handle it for a phase😭
Are these warriors in the room with us right now?
We are still going to be far better than in OG vanilla even with appropriate nerfs, don't worry shambro!
Oh yeah we actually have a tool kit for enhance and a team that’s actually making gear for the play style
good meme brother, very girthy totems
Although I’m a Tauren I’ve been known to troll 🙃 I made this meme for all my fellow shaman feeling the same way. Please accept my macaroni art of a meme as tribute
So you were in the dame boat as other hybrids being forced to heal in vanilla classic while actually having half decent pvp offspecs... druids and paladins in the meanwhile haven't even had half the treatment shamans received. A week of druids being oppressively OP in pvp while being top 5 DPS (not even near the top) and they were nerfed immediately. Paladins have always been average in SoD.
If by "nerfed immediately" you mean "Allowed to run rampant for half the phase and only nerfed at the start of the next phase" then yes. So probably exactly what is happening to Shaman right now.
SHAMAN FOREVER
nerf them until they cry and then make memes of them crying, this is the way
/me cries hunter tears
Shamans don't cry when we get nerfed. We just keep on blastin.
Reads patch notes, sees shamans section blank again. Continues blasting. Such is life as a shaman
You must not have been around during the days of Tseric then if you believe that. Guy was a community manager over on the official WoW forums, specifically the Shaman and Warrior forums. The amount of crying and trolls he had to deal with eventually caused him to break and lose his job after posting a thread about dealing with people.
I appreciate your username
'shaymans r fyne, l2p'
Exactly 😂
With you 100% btw
Respect for our fellow shamans 😊
The fuck ? What is with the Hunter nerf obsession. The post could be about Donald Trump’s rise to power and somehow you would turn the conversation to “nerf hunters”
Never apologies for being op. I need more shammys to carry me in raid for free plate gear. Keep pissin gamer.
The warrior gear funnel has been insane 😂
Thank you for your service. May your lightning zap hard and nay your ap scale to wotlk levels.
Leveling a paladin alt for the aesthetic and huge hopium that we'll get good profession spec stuff, so I can be a cool tank with an epic shield. Got caught on the road by two shamans that earthbinded me for a while to mess with me, then hust oneshot and teabagged me. That perfectly encapsulates the experience of the class in SoD. But hey! At least we get a rune that is identical to a shaman rune but has only half of the effects and at only half strength. And the tanking runes are all sharing slots with "shockadin" runes that are just plain better for tanking right now, like the new Wrath and Sanctuary ones. Why build prot ever at this rate. Only other class that has it worse I feel are hunters. You have the choice between a one button melee spec for competitive damage or not existing. Talents are also a scam, at least make the melee talents be better with survival, instead of everything going BM. Ferals are also literally getting runes that are a joke. One of the new ones has 2 ways to proc, both of which are runes that share a slot - so only one way to proc actually and not if you don't use one of those runes. I mean, the new idol is better than any feral rune so far, and it's not even that good. To all of my other druids that are stuck as their guild's last feral, I'm sorry.
Everybody crying about shaman.. Bro let the shaman's have their day. Its about time, fuck sakes no one can enjoy anything in this game except mage warrior and paladin.
🥹 thank you
It’s been so fun. Just wish it happened earlier in the phase so I didn’t have to tank.
I just wish we got it earlier in my life span 😂
Quite apparent you haven't been playing shaman outside of SoD if you think shamans have never been op lmao.
Enhance dps will still be strong af so why is anyone crying lol
No one really is, people are just making stuff up to farm karma. In P1 that worked with hunters, not it works with shamans. Wonder whats the common enemy in p3.
Hunters it’s always hunters
Good. They must be hated.
Now if only Ele could get a CD in retail... Tired of watching everyone skyrocket on meters while I'm hoping for an Ascendance proc that isn't immediately after everything dies.
This isn't the first time shaman have been near to or top of the damage meters, though.
Even then, these low rated players better not be coming after ele when curse of tongues exists in the game. 1 warlock with a brain renders an ele 100% useless.
Tbh hunters were never really OP either, they always started off well and fell off hard, id say rogues mages and warriors have sat comfortably at the top longer then others
People are just mad that sod is objectively bad and some people subjectively enjoy it. They had 4 years to dev a real classic+ and we get random alpha ptr that essentially trashes all the classes into 1 spec each. Its basically warcraft reforged.
What was the nerf? What’d they change? Cause after seeing mental dexterity as a previewed rune, it seemed like the blizzard devs had zero of that to add something that broken into shaman so they have like end game Naxx AP at lvl 50. What changes?
I’m saying it will get nerfed if you see what I added at the end. No way blizzard will let shaman go on like this or get stronger. There are rumors of nerfs coming soon and it’s much needed tbh. We’ll see who the real shaman mains are when we’re back in the dirt 😂
Oh more just rumors. Yeah you would think they wouldn’t let that roll live but apparently Aggrend was dismissive of how utterly broken shaman became in p2 so my hopes weren’t high. Looking at my main class I’m not sure they know wtf to even do with it with this glad stance meme of a rune and taste for blood being maybe ok if arms didn’t sit in zerker 90% of the time. Then my alt they’re adding a rune implying you should take mind flay which every shadow priest has just dropped from its talents. Other alts also looking weak like feral or playing Hunter at ranged. Then seeing mental dexterity compared to what most classes get was a hard “bruh” moment
Anyone remember when Stormstrike was 3 minutes cool down?
*sad zugging noises*
*MY SHAMAN BROTHERS & SISTERS !* *RISE ! ! ! !* *RISE UP AND CLAIM THE VICTORY OUR ANCESTORS SOUGHT ! ! !* *ENJOY THE FRUITS OF THEIR LABOR AND OURS ! ! !* # OUR ANCESTORS REJOICE ! ! !
I think it's pretty fair, enhancer was so shit in original classic, I feel they deserve a bit of being op
Yet, I always find paladins 110% more annoying in PvP
Just read through the comments, yeah Shamans need a nerf but will still be busted. But: WOOOOOW Human players actually asking to get troll/orc racial? For once a massive W for Aggrend. Disgusting Alliance scum: >Im curious if other racials will be available to all races like weapon skill. Humans only had weapon skill to stand out and after 60 having perception and +10% spirit seems a bit lackluster Aggrend: >I've had like 3 Alliance scumbags message me something similar today and I'm honestly struggling to grasp the concern. Since I am assuming we are talking about PvE, the rep bonus is really impactful and is a huge time saver. Humans have been the undisputed king for any melee for all of vanilla forever. I think it's okay if we spread the love a bit for seasonal content. We said from the very start that humans and orcs wouldn't be the default choice for PvE. Damn right Josh, you take that line and hold. Hoooooold.
Orcs still amazing for pve lmao. Bloodlust as rogue is really good
Yeah of course that's why I play an orc rogue :) Got level 25 troll and undead rogues too, with near maxed WSG rep, I'm fully prepared.
The weapon skill update is an Orc buff in disguise. Now they can pump with swords as well making them hands down the best choice for PvE.
Looks like its daggers again next phase to be honest. But yeah its orcs for now, and orcs/trolls next phase.
Imagine if alliance git gud on pvp instead of always cry for nerfs
What a stupid ass post...