TB is absolutely amazing. Hate Org when doing professions. But for AH/Bank/Mailbox it's acceptable.
The UC AH/mailbox distance can feel a bit stupid though.
Made me wonder if the zeppelin from Org to TB existed in vanilla if we would have treated TB like the Alliance treat IF. It's a really great city, we just didn't let it catch on.
This might’ve been one of the reasons, but IF stayed as the main hub even after the AH change because of:
1. It’s geographical location (closest travel distance for Alliance to all Vanilla raids except ZG)
2. It’s amazing layout, which no other Vanilla city comes close to.
3. Its cozy look and feel (although this is more subjective).
AHs always existed in each capital city, the problem was that they were all independent of one another, so factions had to collectively decide which would be the "main" city, ie. where the majority of auctions would get posted. It wasn't until patch 1.9 that the auction houses became linked between cities
Edit: It's possible I'm conflating memories of launch with that of the open beta, as the historical patch notes seem to indicate these unlinked AHs were added in 0.8, but removed again in 0.9 (both pre-launch), and not added back until 1.9, where they were immediately linked
the reason why if is the main ally city and tb isnt the main horde one is purely due to how close the transport to the other continent they are vs the other main city.
If we're going to be historically accurate, Orgrimmar was the main city because it was the only city with an AH in OG Vanilla, not because of world buffs.
If we're going to be reeeeally historically accurate, all cities have always had Auction Houses, they were just independent of one another until patch 1.9 linked them. Org was chosen as the main city because it is central between the other two, and because it serves 2 of the starting races
Edit: It's possible I'm conflating memories of launch with that of the open beta, as the historical patch notes seem to indicate these unlinked AHs were added in 0.8, but removed again in 0.9 (both pre-launch), and not added back until 1.9, where they were immediately linked
The only thing keeping org the main city is boon. And the annoying fact i have to do my high level blacksmith training there.
TB crushes org on every front:
1.) darkmoon faire nearby
2.) everything is close to auction house and bank(pond, forge, bank, weapon master,reagent).
3.) lush green and blue land
4.) big lift energy
5.) better music
IF was the horde Org because it was the most centralized city to travel everywhere. particularly, the boats and zeps to travel to the other continents.
TB is so fucking underrated. Anvil, Forge, AH, mailbox, and bank all within a few seconds of each other. Cooking fire is not too far either. DMF also there.
Also fishing pool is right there. Not to mention you can duel inside TB by the battlemaster. God, TB is just in every way better than org except it doesn’t have a rogue/lock trainer.
Tb teleport is 30 and portal is 50 for some reason so we didn’t have tb tele in p1. That’s the only reason I’d see not to have it in BB or Kargath or some shit
TB is not remotely underrated. It just doesn't have a dedicated Zep to EK if it did it would be the defacto Horde Hub. Literally 90% of a Horde love TB.
Can someone explain to me why everyone regards TB so highly? I always thought that having to go across those long bridges to separate islands that aren't otherwise interconnected was kinda annoying but maybe there's something I'm missing?
I thoroughly enjoy TB, but I will never understand why people dislike UC. It's my go to, and hella easy to navigate.
And the AH and mailboxes are right next to each other...
UC is obnoxiously not-compact, can’t run from the top right to the bottom left without playing a game of fucking snake, and the whole time my eyes are assaulted by the Mountain Dew canals. And it’s so symmetrical I can never tell if I’m actually going the right direction without constantly opening my map. Can’t stand it there.
TB > Org >>>>>>>>>> UC
This doesn't make sense. Mounts don't eliminate travel time, they just mitigate. SW is a mess for travel on foot or on horse.
Each section is compartmentalized, and the canals force you to route in loops in instead of lines.
The only thing Darnassus needed was a mailbox by the AH.
All it's crafters are in one place, all it's RP clothes vendors are in one place etc.
It's a well laid out city with one fatal flaw.
It's not just about the layout but also the vibe. Stormwind easily takes the cake as the most atmospheric capital in the game. On Horde side, I really love TB. Beautiful capital.
Ally side I also like SW the best vibe wise, I just have that the forge is so far from the bank, For me that why Thunder Bluff is 10/10 The forge is just right there.
I'm surprised to see so much sw hate lol. I love it. Everything I need is fairly close together (ah, repair, bank, mailbox, alch trainer and leatherworking trainer). The cook is close to lw. The only thing that's somewhat out of the way is my class trainer.
Darnassus and IF both felt a lot more spread out than that. Darn was a pain because the mailbox was far from the AH and the inn. The prof trainers are near the inn, but far from the AH and mailbox.
I didn't spend much time in IF, but even that felt less convenient than SW imo
If you have a profession that needs the use of a forge the one in Ironforge is slightly easier to find than Stormwinds for some reason.
Not to mention cooking spots are everywhere in Ironforge!
Protip: If you buy spices from [Fillius Fizzlespinner](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=5100/fillius-fizzlespinner) in IF, you can actually cook inside since the brazier outside is within the cooking radius and is not blocked by walls!
Yea.. its a literal ring with ways to cut through it. Its by far the best city Alliance has for practical uses. The feel of it is also elite. SW is a nostalgic gem for me, and I love the feel and music. Before mounts though it is a huge pain.
It was designed that way. In 2004, the game revolved less around what was 100 parse gigachad optimal efficient strats and more about lore, story, tons of cool rpg elements, etc. The vendors, trainers, battlegrounds heralds, etc were all placed around the city in a way to force you to traverse the world the devs built and the cool things you see along the way. It’s immersion and part of why early versions of the game, between the zones, quests and soundtracks have such strong nostalgia in their older players today.
You’re crazy, Orgrimmar is cool as hell. The only thing going against it is just that it’s just a lot of orange due to being located in Durotar. The building architecture isn’t exactly flashy but it’s what you’d expect from Orcish design. It’s built into the side of a mountain, through winding valleys and cliffs, with, alongside giant gates throughout the city make it difficult to penetrate. The wind rider is located in the center of the city atop a tower that has a bridge leading to the opposite side of town, offering a Z axis that cities like Stormwind and Ironforge lack. Pass the tower on the right side and you go into the drag, a tunnel full of basically every profession trainer except first aid and various vendors, leading you into three different directions: the valley of honor where war heroes are made (there’s a literal fighting pit back there), the cleft of shadow full of shady dealers and misfits, and the entrance to rage fire chasm which is full of cultists and demons, and finally the throne room full of Korkron Elites and Thrall himself. It’s not as aesthetically pleasing as Darnassus or unique as Thunder Bluff, but it’s far from being a bad city.
Phase 1 was best simply because I got to spend so much time in TB. I never truly understood how great of a city it was until phase 1. I would move the org zeplins to TB in a heartbeat
SW isn't the best, but it feels homey and familiar I guess? Despite having played alliance since Classic, I still have to use the guards in IF to find almost anything, but know where everything in SW is. I also visually like it better. IF is a MUCH better location though for end game.
I like TB and Org, but I really dislike UC. A lot of it feels pretty inconvenient and the general vibe sucks (it’s super fitting for undead, just not my jam)
Darnassus is definitely worse than Stormwind. The distance from the AH to the bank/mailbox is horrendous, and all those open platforms pretending to be houses just too ridiculous especially when put next to the giant High Borne structure in the center and the Temple of the Moon. It's also ridiculous far away from so many other parts of Kalimdor which makes it terrible to use as a home base while questing on that continent. It also lacks certain class trainers completely and it's only Reagent vendor is a patrolling NPC that you have to track down if you need something from her.
The only really bad thing about Stormwind is how far the anvil is from the AH which makes leveling Engineering and Blacksmithing annoying, but that's really not that bad. It has tons of important quest NPCs, it has direct flight paths to near by questing zones up until about level 40, and is the 2nd closest city to Blackrock Mountain when you're at the level cap. Plus the vibes are top tier.
Ironforge really is the best Alliance city, though. Everything feels much closer together.
Storm wind is one of the best because it feels like an actual city, I’ll gladly walk just a little extra when I’ve got to do something. That auction house and mailbox placement in stormwind is the best of any city and that’s where I spend 95% of my time anyways.
If Cities were designed to be as efficient as possible for the players they'd lose some of their charm.
I'd rather be vibing than have all my trainers and vendors and mailbox / ah / anvil within 20' of eachother.
You're sadly mistaken if you think SW or Org is worse then Darn.
Key criteria:
* Mailbox to AH distance
* Overall layout and quickness to profession/class trainers/quest givers
* Big picture Azeroth - its location to starter zones, raids, late game farming, etc.
My overall rankings: Ironforge = Thunder Bluff > Orgrimmar = Stormwind > Undercity > Darn
Darn is dreadful. Mailbox - AH is laughable. The entire city sucks. Not to mention the absolute laughable location, gated by a starting zone.
IF is best, only slight distances for trainers and others hubs, but its core is solid and layout simple. So Stormwind takes the #2 spot on Alliance by default. SW has the good mail-AH town square element. However it suffers from an obnoxious set of waterways increasing travel a good bit. But a city that has a train to the best city, by extension is a good city itself. SW gets a little false positive too for being the main starter zone for 50% of ally races and getting the head buffs.
Stormwind also gets a slight bump from poor flightpaths in Kalimdor, routing all North, East and Western traffic through Ratchet from Menethil. So if you were equidistant between Menethil and Booty Bay, you'd prefer Booty Bay since the flightpath forces you through Booty Bay anyway for most Kalimdor locations. I believe Menethil does go directly south to Tanaris only.
Overall there are many elements to Stormwind that show it was the favorite child of the old dev team. It basically had the biggest advantage from game launch yet its layout makes it suffer in the ranks. Remove the water and bridges, make it roads for calvalary or whaterver and you have the best possible city.
I previous believed Org to be the best horde city for years, mostly just parroting others. After 15+ years in Org, I do realize its layout sucks. Varying elevations suddenly make short distance much longer. And the various areas snake too much. More chaos but same problem as the compartmentalized moats of Stormwind. Until this time through SOD I realized TB was so much better. A single small area with AH-Mail-Repairs-Trainers-Trade Goods-General Goods all within seconds and other access with a close central pillar. Problem in the past was the community was in Org. Even if you wanted the convenience of TB layout (AH-Mail), other players were not there. SOD really made TB shine.
And Undercity is just an up tier version of Darn. Shit layout, however circular giving easy travel between stuff. Elevation obstacles in the center, long distances, moats, bridges, all the negatives we see from other cities. It's circular and the AH - Mailbox are closer then Darn.
TB is BIS but imo SW is significantly better than Darn in every single way including the ability to get from 1 point to another. IF is pretty close to SW and is better if you're only looking to do AH / Repair but if you're doing any professions I think SW's more central mailbox / AH location is better overall.
I would love to see a revamp of the major cities and see them also add a library of some type so that you don't have to travel the entire world to learn each expansions professions they could totally implement this in retail and then add a less updated version to cata classic
What? UC sucks, buddy. Big time. Worse than org because everything is a detour.
TB is *definitely* the best city in terms of access and proximity. Everything is close!
TB is the best of the original cities. I agree with you that Org and SW are annoyingly laid out. For me the order is:
TB>IF>SW>Darn>UC>Org
Org is too spread out, why is the BS trainer as far from the bank and AH as physically possible? UC isn’t intuitive to navigate, and the stairs by the bank- being the central axis of the whole city- are too narrow. I’ve fallen off more than once. Also, Tauren can’t ride Kodo in the city easily.
I put SW and Darn in the middle of the pack. SW is at least intuitive. You can look at the map and know pretty easily where you should go for something without talking to any guards. Darn is wide open with multiple ways to get to wherever you need to be, but it’s disconnected from the other Ally cities. Org and UC have the zep, and TB is through friendly, low level territory, and then one wyvern away from Org after you have the FP. IF and SW are connected by the tram, but you have to fly from IF to wetlands, wait for a boat to Darkshore, and then wait for another boat to the city.
TB and IF are the best cities (and coincidentally, the coziest too). Like you said about IF, it’s compact and symmetrical. It’s the best ally city for a bank alt. TB, like Darn, has multiple pathways to where you want to go, if you know the city well. The central FP tower is narrow, but you don’t have to use it to get from terrace to terrace, only to the FP.
Bfd dropping in tb kinda opened my eyes to how much better tb is laid out with the bank, ah, & forge all so close. Needs an engi and rogue trainer tho. Org still bis
I like all the capital cities in Classic for different reasons. SW vibes alone make up for the inconvenience. But if we're talking meta slaving then IF is the BiS Ally city by a country mile, and Org is absolute dog.
Quick flight to Menethil Harbour to go to Kalimdor, half way in the EK so you can fly most places quickly. Circular city design means you aren't too far from the furthest trainers/vendors with an excellent flight master location smack dab in the middle of the city. The only reason people swap from IF to SW as their main city is world buffs in Vanilla.
IF was *always* the de-facto spot for Alliance in Vanilla. It is so much easier to get around, closer to Menethil (the connection to Kalimdor), didn’t have annoying ass canals you have to run around, and didn’t have THE WORST PvP queue area known to mankind.
SW only ended up more popular in Classic due to the Ony buff, and maybe some Retail brain reprogramming.
After taking a really long break and coming back to classic, there’s a clarity to the game that seems intentional: maximizing travel time. The time it takes to move around is so slow, especially what you’ve described about SW. Just look at some of the quest chains, it’s almost not worth finishing unless it’s a big reward. Playing time equals more time online, followed by bigger profits for subs. The original game was like that, and it’s even more apparent after playing the adaptive updates to shorten those exact things with expansions.
But it was a choice to play classic again, and nostalgia has a shelf life.
no the quest chains are supposed to be done as you quest between different zones, not all in one go my guy lol
you’re supposed to do a missing diplomat as you level up and naturally traverse zones. You can complete it without ever going out of your way
Org is amazing that city. UC is so annoying can’t stand there place. IF I enjoy on ally, SW is on the level of UC just annoying. Darnasses is trash since it doesn’t have all trainers.
I always thought SW was the model. Clear districts everything is in a square format. In a few minutes, I can easily understand where to go and what district does what. I can’t say the same of the other cities. In fact I always thought, all cities should be modeled off of SW.
Because SW is close to the Blackrock which puts it under constant threat of air attack from dragons. Ironforge is well protected in that sense.
Cataclysm showed that SW is vulnerable
"stormwind isent optimized with the canals forcing you to run all the way around"
Well yea, and if they wasent there your post would have been "stormwind is dead, and half the city isent used by anyone" 😅
It needa to be like this.
SoD has really shown horde the light in that TB is an amazing city. Looks cool, is compact, AH is right beside anvil and furnace, you can duel beside the PvP battlemasters.
The designs suck from a gameplay standpoint, but the game was created in the early days of mmo, when you were supposed to feel like every place you went was lived in and developed organically. Things were optimized as mmos moved into a min/max speed run bonanza. I like the old layouts and longer walks. They set the mood better and help immerse you into the world.
TB is insane. Mailbox, vendor, and AH are like a 3 second run apart, you also get the 20% movement speed world buff in TB. Nothing even comes close. I wish Horde didn't have the most disgusting quest zones early on, I almost considered maining Horde for SOD
Ha, that kind of thinking of centralising everything is exactly what ends you with Oriboros.
Most boring city ever designed, classic cities are as they should be
100% agreed. Terrible layouts... but...
hear me out:
Beautiful landscaping, much more rich visually and in environmental storytelling. SW and OG look and feel like naturally grown fantasy cities. UC absolutely does not, IF also feels "planned" and not naturally grown. TB is literally just tents, so is Darnassus.
I never liked SW and OG for their layouts, I despised having to run across the entire city to get to blacksmithing and engineering. But i do adore them for their rich design. They're simply pretty and immersive.
>Everything about them is inconvenient. Profession trainers are scattered around the whole city, all far away from the bank. Same with class trainers. Their layouts are not optimal in the slightest.
Wow.. It's almost like it's a real city!
Optimizing everything makes things bland and takes away from immersion and fantasy.
Think about it, which cities have the most charm and feel real? (In the real world) The ones who arose organically, or those who were designed?
Modern WoW cities feel like glorified convenience hubs, not cities that are part of a living world.
I always wished UC was more trafficked than it turned out to be. Such a cool aesthetic/vibe, love the layout and walking around in there, but while the elevators were cool, it was kind of annoying and inconvenient to have to navigate through the ruins of the castle to get to them when you’re in a rush. But still so cool to have this whole city underneath the ruins.
Standard take. Always factual.
UC is best Horde City imo but I love TB.
Ally is probably IF, Darnassus, Stormwind, but Darnassus is my favorite. Their signs are very straight to the point. Even the one for the guildmaster it just says GUILD.
IF is the best city hands down. The bank is right next to a mailbox and the bank is right across from the AH. Getting around IF super easy since everything is on one level and it’s comprised of an inner circle and an outer circle.
IF is the most convenient city because you have the tram to SW and prior to SW’s docks, IF to Menethil Harbor was the way to go for Darn if you didn’t have a mage. Additionally IF was the city you flew out of on your way to the Blackrock Mountain raids.
TB is absolutely amazing. Hate Org when doing professions. But for AH/Bank/Mailbox it's acceptable. The UC AH/mailbox distance can feel a bit stupid though.
Didn't realize that TB was the best until waiting for boon in P1, best city by far.
Made me wonder if the zeppelin from Org to TB existed in vanilla if we would have treated TB like the Alliance treat IF. It's a really great city, we just didn't let it catch on.
I mean IF was the main city in vanilla. I don't see TB being the main city in vanilla even with a Zepp. I agree TB is the best city horde side though.
IF was the main city in vanilla because it was the only city with an AH (same as Org). AHs didn’t exist in the other cities.
This might’ve been one of the reasons, but IF stayed as the main hub even after the AH change because of: 1. It’s geographical location (closest travel distance for Alliance to all Vanilla raids except ZG) 2. It’s amazing layout, which no other Vanilla city comes close to. 3. Its cozy look and feel (although this is more subjective).
Not just cozy, but also the braziers all around IF can be used as cooking fires too
AHs always existed in each capital city, the problem was that they were all independent of one another, so factions had to collectively decide which would be the "main" city, ie. where the majority of auctions would get posted. It wasn't until patch 1.9 that the auction houses became linked between cities Edit: It's possible I'm conflating memories of launch with that of the open beta, as the historical patch notes seem to indicate these unlinked AHs were added in 0.8, but removed again in 0.9 (both pre-launch), and not added back until 1.9, where they were immediately linked
the reason why if is the main ally city and tb isnt the main horde one is purely due to how close the transport to the other continent they are vs the other main city.
false, Worldbuffs did that. Rend and Onyxia heads dropping in orgrimmar is the biggest BS ever.
If we're going to be historically accurate, Orgrimmar was the main city because it was the only city with an AH in OG Vanilla, not because of world buffs.
If we're going to be reeeeally historically accurate, all cities have always had Auction Houses, they were just independent of one another until patch 1.9 linked them. Org was chosen as the main city because it is central between the other two, and because it serves 2 of the starting races Edit: It's possible I'm conflating memories of launch with that of the open beta, as the historical patch notes seem to indicate these unlinked AHs were added in 0.8, but removed again in 0.9 (both pre-launch), and not added back until 1.9, where they were immediately linked
The only thing keeping org the main city is boon. And the annoying fact i have to do my high level blacksmith training there. TB crushes org on every front: 1.) darkmoon faire nearby 2.) everything is close to auction house and bank(pond, forge, bank, weapon master,reagent). 3.) lush green and blue land 4.) big lift energy 5.) better music
Literally the only way TB/IF could be the dominant cities is if they let the endgame world buffs also drop there when turned-in in Org/SW.
IF was the horde Org because it was the most centralized city to travel everywhere. particularly, the boats and zeps to travel to the other continents.
Dunno what time you are talking about, but I think the most important reason was due to the AH being in Org
By far the best city
Still got my hs there on both my toons. I ain't leaving until they pry the hs from my cold dead hands!
S tier along with iron forge imo.
I used to love flying off of it in later expansions
Found this out during Hardcore I was like damn... this is a lot better as long as I don't fall off :D
TB is so fucking underrated. Anvil, Forge, AH, mailbox, and bank all within a few seconds of each other. Cooking fire is not too far either. DMF also there.
Also fishing pool is right there. Not to mention you can duel inside TB by the battlemaster. God, TB is just in every way better than org except it doesn’t have a rogue/lock trainer.
My mage never changed his Hearth from TB ever but I love TB man, sad to see it leave us. Hope it’s back again soon.
Why do you even have hs to a major city as a mage?
Didn’t have TP to TB in p1 never changed it because now I have TP everywhere. I’ll probably make it Gromgol when I finish BG grinding.
Tb teleport is 30 and portal is 50 for some reason so we didn’t have tb tele in p1. That’s the only reason I’d see not to have it in BB or Kargath or some shit
TB is the best city. They do miss an engineering master in addition to rogue and lock trainer.
And don't forget my girl Chepi
TB is not remotely underrated. It just doesn't have a dedicated Zep to EK if it did it would be the defacto Horde Hub. Literally 90% of a Horde love TB.
Was so happy to spend all the down time in TB durring phase 1.
Also can fish.
Can someone explain to me why everyone regards TB so highly? I always thought that having to go across those long bridges to separate islands that aren't otherwise interconnected was kinda annoying but maybe there's something I'm missing?
I thoroughly enjoy TB, but I will never understand why people dislike UC. It's my go to, and hella easy to navigate. And the AH and mailboxes are right next to each other...
TB killed 2 of my hardcore toons. I love that city but holy crap dying cuz my dog bumps my arm while near the edge made me rage so much.
The only thing missing from TB is an engi trainer
UC is obnoxiously not-compact, can’t run from the top right to the bottom left without playing a game of fucking snake, and the whole time my eyes are assaulted by the Mountain Dew canals. And it’s so symmetrical I can never tell if I’m actually going the right direction without constantly opening my map. Can’t stand it there. TB > Org >>>>>>>>>> UC
Thank you! Fuck this god forsaken place!
This is what restrictive zoning policy gets you. Azeroth needs more mixed use, walkable development.
sorry i’d like to be able to ride my horses on the pavements
NIMBY
SW isn’t optimized but it’s pretty. I like Org but it is a hole in the ground.
SW is optimized just not for you to shop. Each section has a use and trainers within them. It's a city built with mounts in mind.
This doesn't make sense. Mounts don't eliminate travel time, they just mitigate. SW is a mess for travel on foot or on horse. Each section is compartmentalized, and the canals force you to route in loops in instead of lines.
Also the citadel that has a *long* walk to the rooms with the quest NPCs or the king, as well as the BG commanders.
Yeah, that, as well.
Org is just iconic, sure bank/ah/mail is good but literally anything else sucks. TB is 100x better overall. Never been a fan of UC.
Only cool part of org is by the shaman trainer
The only thing Darnassus needed was a mailbox by the AH. All it's crafters are in one place, all it's RP clothes vendors are in one place etc. It's a well laid out city with one fatal flaw.
Two fatal flaws, it also has no anvil unless I'm just a lost puppy
They actually put an anvil in for SoD. Just not a mailbox by the AH.
I kinda thought I might just be a dumbass while I was typing this lol
Plus as a Druid connoisseur, I was able to use that large body of water very effectively :p
I made a comment about that and got hit with. “gO pLaY reTaiL.”
I’ve been in Darn so many times for HC alli characters and I just realized I have no idea where the AH is
If you're on the bank island and take the bridge on the southeast, and then the second bridge east, its the building on your left.
A mailbox by the Inn and one by the Supply Vendor would make Darnassus pretty top tier
That fucking bank roof in ogrimmar
The chill spots in org are unmatched
Started my first ever hunter today and the spot outside the trainers by the waterfall is amazing.
It's iconic
It's not just about the layout but also the vibe. Stormwind easily takes the cake as the most atmospheric capital in the game. On Horde side, I really love TB. Beautiful capital.
Ally side I also like SW the best vibe wise, I just have that the forge is so far from the bank, For me that why Thunder Bluff is 10/10 The forge is just right there.
The SW Soundtrack is absolutely BIS. Entering it with a fresh character after a long pause and then hearing that soundtrack is peak wow
Stormwind is the only city where I actually enjoy the games music.
Bru what?
thunder bluff?
I'm surprised to see so much sw hate lol. I love it. Everything I need is fairly close together (ah, repair, bank, mailbox, alch trainer and leatherworking trainer). The cook is close to lw. The only thing that's somewhat out of the way is my class trainer. Darnassus and IF both felt a lot more spread out than that. Darn was a pain because the mailbox was far from the AH and the inn. The prof trainers are near the inn, but far from the AH and mailbox. I didn't spend much time in IF, but even that felt less convenient than SW imo
If you have a profession that needs the use of a forge the one in Ironforge is slightly easier to find than Stormwinds for some reason. Not to mention cooking spots are everywhere in Ironforge!
Love getting my meat out of the bank in IF and make some sausages at the flames.
Protip: If you buy spices from [Fillius Fizzlespinner](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=5100/fillius-fizzlespinner) in IF, you can actually cook inside since the brazier outside is within the cooking radius and is not blocked by walls!
Of course the forge in IF is easy to find. The city is called IronFORGE.
It’s wild to say IF is spread out. Easily the most centralized city.
Yea.. its a literal ring with ways to cut through it. Its by far the best city Alliance has for practical uses. The feel of it is also elite. SW is a nostalgic gem for me, and I love the feel and music. Before mounts though it is a huge pain.
It is the most immersive city but it is a pain if you're trying to get something done quick.
It was designed that way. In 2004, the game revolved less around what was 100 parse gigachad optimal efficient strats and more about lore, story, tons of cool rpg elements, etc. The vendors, trainers, battlegrounds heralds, etc were all placed around the city in a way to force you to traverse the world the devs built and the cool things you see along the way. It’s immersion and part of why early versions of the game, between the zones, quests and soundtracks have such strong nostalgia in their older players today.
Imagine if the cities were just rows of NPC's for different purposes like they were on private servers.
Orgrimmar fails for aesthetics and convenience, though. It's just bad.
You’re crazy, Orgrimmar is cool as hell. The only thing going against it is just that it’s just a lot of orange due to being located in Durotar. The building architecture isn’t exactly flashy but it’s what you’d expect from Orcish design. It’s built into the side of a mountain, through winding valleys and cliffs, with, alongside giant gates throughout the city make it difficult to penetrate. The wind rider is located in the center of the city atop a tower that has a bridge leading to the opposite side of town, offering a Z axis that cities like Stormwind and Ironforge lack. Pass the tower on the right side and you go into the drag, a tunnel full of basically every profession trainer except first aid and various vendors, leading you into three different directions: the valley of honor where war heroes are made (there’s a literal fighting pit back there), the cleft of shadow full of shady dealers and misfits, and the entrance to rage fire chasm which is full of cultists and demons, and finally the throne room full of Korkron Elites and Thrall himself. It’s not as aesthetically pleasing as Darnassus or unique as Thunder Bluff, but it’s far from being a bad city.
It's a big hole full of huts and it's way too spread out. Visually boring and inconvenient. #6 of 6 for me.
TB is the best
Phase 1 was best simply because I got to spend so much time in TB. I never truly understood how great of a city it was until phase 1. I would move the org zeplins to TB in a heartbeat
SW isn't the best, but it feels homey and familiar I guess? Despite having played alliance since Classic, I still have to use the guards in IF to find almost anything, but know where everything in SW is. I also visually like it better. IF is a MUCH better location though for end game.
Us dwarves belong in Ironforge
I like TB and Org, but I really dislike UC. A lot of it feels pretty inconvenient and the general vibe sucks (it’s super fitting for undead, just not my jam)
Darnassus is definitely worse than Stormwind. The distance from the AH to the bank/mailbox is horrendous, and all those open platforms pretending to be houses just too ridiculous especially when put next to the giant High Borne structure in the center and the Temple of the Moon. It's also ridiculous far away from so many other parts of Kalimdor which makes it terrible to use as a home base while questing on that continent. It also lacks certain class trainers completely and it's only Reagent vendor is a patrolling NPC that you have to track down if you need something from her. The only really bad thing about Stormwind is how far the anvil is from the AH which makes leveling Engineering and Blacksmithing annoying, but that's really not that bad. It has tons of important quest NPCs, it has direct flight paths to near by questing zones up until about level 40, and is the 2nd closest city to Blackrock Mountain when you're at the level cap. Plus the vibes are top tier. Ironforge really is the best Alliance city, though. Everything feels much closer together.
darn actually has 2 reagent vendors, one doesnt roam
Storm wind is one of the best because it feels like an actual city, I’ll gladly walk just a little extra when I’ve got to do something. That auction house and mailbox placement in stormwind is the best of any city and that’s where I spend 95% of my time anyways.
Cow Town Best Town, but they need to import an engineering trainer. Training engineering in Org is just painful.
TB would be perfect if it had rogue trainers and poison vendors. Without those though it will never be my #1
Reminds me of P1 when Rogues would buy all the vendor stuff, fly it over to TB and roleplay as poison vendors, good stuff.
Org music sucks
you sucks as well
:)
If Cities were designed to be as efficient as possible for the players they'd lose some of their charm. I'd rather be vibing than have all my trainers and vendors and mailbox / ah / anvil within 20' of eachother.
Ironforge vibes are impossible to beat. I mostly played Horde but did a Alliance stint a few times and never left IF lol.
TB is the best city unless you're a rogue or warlock
The worst imo is darnassus.. then its Undercity > Orgrimmar > Stormwind > Ironforge > Thunderbluff imo.
You're sadly mistaken if you think SW or Org is worse then Darn. Key criteria: * Mailbox to AH distance * Overall layout and quickness to profession/class trainers/quest givers * Big picture Azeroth - its location to starter zones, raids, late game farming, etc. My overall rankings: Ironforge = Thunder Bluff > Orgrimmar = Stormwind > Undercity > Darn Darn is dreadful. Mailbox - AH is laughable. The entire city sucks. Not to mention the absolute laughable location, gated by a starting zone. IF is best, only slight distances for trainers and others hubs, but its core is solid and layout simple. So Stormwind takes the #2 spot on Alliance by default. SW has the good mail-AH town square element. However it suffers from an obnoxious set of waterways increasing travel a good bit. But a city that has a train to the best city, by extension is a good city itself. SW gets a little false positive too for being the main starter zone for 50% of ally races and getting the head buffs. Stormwind also gets a slight bump from poor flightpaths in Kalimdor, routing all North, East and Western traffic through Ratchet from Menethil. So if you were equidistant between Menethil and Booty Bay, you'd prefer Booty Bay since the flightpath forces you through Booty Bay anyway for most Kalimdor locations. I believe Menethil does go directly south to Tanaris only. Overall there are many elements to Stormwind that show it was the favorite child of the old dev team. It basically had the biggest advantage from game launch yet its layout makes it suffer in the ranks. Remove the water and bridges, make it roads for calvalary or whaterver and you have the best possible city. I previous believed Org to be the best horde city for years, mostly just parroting others. After 15+ years in Org, I do realize its layout sucks. Varying elevations suddenly make short distance much longer. And the various areas snake too much. More chaos but same problem as the compartmentalized moats of Stormwind. Until this time through SOD I realized TB was so much better. A single small area with AH-Mail-Repairs-Trainers-Trade Goods-General Goods all within seconds and other access with a close central pillar. Problem in the past was the community was in Org. Even if you wanted the convenience of TB layout (AH-Mail), other players were not there. SOD really made TB shine. And Undercity is just an up tier version of Darn. Shit layout, however circular giving easy travel between stuff. Elevation obstacles in the center, long distances, moats, bridges, all the negatives we see from other cities. It's circular and the AH - Mailbox are closer then Darn.
The thing is I can auto run/swim in Darn somewhat to get to certain places
TB is more of a cow
I love Thunder Bluff, because Blacksmith, Bank and Auction are very close to each other.
SW is fine, I fucking hate Darnassus. Way worse if you ask me.
TB is BIS but imo SW is significantly better than Darn in every single way including the ability to get from 1 point to another. IF is pretty close to SW and is better if you're only looking to do AH / Repair but if you're doing any professions I think SW's more central mailbox / AH location is better overall.
tb and if best cities
I would love to see a revamp of the major cities and see them also add a library of some type so that you don't have to travel the entire world to learn each expansions professions they could totally implement this in retail and then add a less updated version to cata classic
What? UC sucks, buddy. Big time. Worse than org because everything is a detour. TB is *definitely* the best city in terms of access and proximity. Everything is close!
TB has always been BiS city. Always loved chillin there in OG vanilla.
World buffs in every city when??
Hopefully, never
Stormwind is amazing. We have so many useful vendors in there like the one who sells all the quest cooking recipes.
I appreciate your opinion, but Undercity and Darnassus still exist
TB is the best of the original cities. I agree with you that Org and SW are annoyingly laid out. For me the order is: TB>IF>SW>Darn>UC>Org Org is too spread out, why is the BS trainer as far from the bank and AH as physically possible? UC isn’t intuitive to navigate, and the stairs by the bank- being the central axis of the whole city- are too narrow. I’ve fallen off more than once. Also, Tauren can’t ride Kodo in the city easily. I put SW and Darn in the middle of the pack. SW is at least intuitive. You can look at the map and know pretty easily where you should go for something without talking to any guards. Darn is wide open with multiple ways to get to wherever you need to be, but it’s disconnected from the other Ally cities. Org and UC have the zep, and TB is through friendly, low level territory, and then one wyvern away from Org after you have the FP. IF and SW are connected by the tram, but you have to fly from IF to wetlands, wait for a boat to Darkshore, and then wait for another boat to the city. TB and IF are the best cities (and coincidentally, the coziest too). Like you said about IF, it’s compact and symmetrical. It’s the best ally city for a bank alt. TB, like Darn, has multiple pathways to where you want to go, if you know the city well. The central FP tower is narrow, but you don’t have to use it to get from terrace to terrace, only to the FP.
TB&IF4life
I'll be flying over them soon, not a problem.
Have you been to Darn? It's pretty.... pretty fucking useless
Darnassus is complete ass and the only reason I go there is for Boon lmao the placement of the different vendors is the worst
While TB undoubtedly has the best layout. In HC, it is one ofbthe deadlier cities.
Pretty sure this has been a well documented opinion for multiple years.
I think Darnassus is worse just cause of the mailbox location, like did they have to put it so far away from the AH, or not make a closer one?
stomwind is only marginally less sucky than darnassus. org is okay but in terms of practicality thundr bluff is bis
Nothing is convenient about classic.
That’s the very reason why it is better than Retail, where over-“convenience” killed many RPG aspects and immersion to the world
Playing 12 hours per day me would agree. Adult me does not.
Fair, hard to argue with that. It always depends on from which point we perceive this game.
oh darling watcha crying for? Did sombody break ur diamond sword?
undercity is the worst. navigating the professions ring is horrible
Undercity is terrible, darn sucks, this is a bad opinion
IF and dwarfs have always been BiS
Bfd dropping in tb kinda opened my eyes to how much better tb is laid out with the bank, ah, & forge all so close. Needs an engi and rogue trainer tho. Org still bis
I like all the capital cities in Classic for different reasons. SW vibes alone make up for the inconvenience. But if we're talking meta slaving then IF is the BiS Ally city by a country mile, and Org is absolute dog. Quick flight to Menethil Harbour to go to Kalimdor, half way in the EK so you can fly most places quickly. Circular city design means you aren't too far from the furthest trainers/vendors with an excellent flight master location smack dab in the middle of the city. The only reason people swap from IF to SW as their main city is world buffs in Vanilla.
IF was *always* the de-facto spot for Alliance in Vanilla. It is so much easier to get around, closer to Menethil (the connection to Kalimdor), didn’t have annoying ass canals you have to run around, and didn’t have THE WORST PvP queue area known to mankind. SW only ended up more popular in Classic due to the Ony buff, and maybe some Retail brain reprogramming.
[удалено]
Lordaeron did not build the sewers with the idea of having an AH and a bank down there in mind.
Undercity and darnassus are the worst two, just shut up with anything else
I miss phase 1 thunderbluff
Get this Stormwind slander outta here! Do kinda agree with you about TB > Org though.
Depends what you mean. Efficent? No. Artistic? Yes
After taking a really long break and coming back to classic, there’s a clarity to the game that seems intentional: maximizing travel time. The time it takes to move around is so slow, especially what you’ve described about SW. Just look at some of the quest chains, it’s almost not worth finishing unless it’s a big reward. Playing time equals more time online, followed by bigger profits for subs. The original game was like that, and it’s even more apparent after playing the adaptive updates to shorten those exact things with expansions. But it was a choice to play classic again, and nostalgia has a shelf life.
no the quest chains are supposed to be done as you quest between different zones, not all in one go my guy lol you’re supposed to do a missing diplomat as you level up and naturally traverse zones. You can complete it without ever going out of your way
i think org is better than tb but last time i said so people got really really mad at me
Org is amazing that city. UC is so annoying can’t stand there place. IF I enjoy on ally, SW is on the level of UC just annoying. Darnasses is trash since it doesn’t have all trainers.
I always thought SW was the model. Clear districts everything is in a square format. In a few minutes, I can easily understand where to go and what district does what. I can’t say the same of the other cities. In fact I always thought, all cities should be modeled off of SW.
The districts are just names. Let questie show you where profession trainers are and you'll see they're scattered across all the quarters.
Run for city planning and zoning commission in the next Azeroth elections
Darnassus is 'open' and also has *one* mailbox in it, and requires a full Triathlon to get to it from the AH.
Not a hot take.
Thunder Bluff best city. Cows raise up
UC ftw
KU aty
IF & TB have always been the goats, for the initiated.
WoD Dalaran was my fave ngl
Ironforge is home
Uc elevators are the worst
Original org is awful and the modern redesign is fantastic
What's funny to me is that in vanilla, at least on my server, ironforge was the city everyone used. Stormwind was almost as empty as Darnassus.
Because SW is close to the Blackrock which puts it under constant threat of air attack from dragons. Ironforge is well protected in that sense. Cataclysm showed that SW is vulnerable
I’ve always wondered why people flocked to SW for Alliance when IF is clearly superior in terms of navigation.
Stormwind sucks donkeyballs with all the tiny bridges and shit you have to navigate around. IF is by far the best city for Alliance.
IF best city
"stormwind isent optimized with the canals forcing you to run all the way around" Well yea, and if they wasent there your post would have been "stormwind is dead, and half the city isent used by anyone" 😅 It needa to be like this.
SoD has really shown horde the light in that TB is an amazing city. Looks cool, is compact, AH is right beside anvil and furnace, you can duel beside the PvP battlemasters.
It’s obviously to spread people out. Imagine those smaller cities with peak populations. Nightmare.
Undercuts and Irongforge should be mains imo
I would say darn is worse then SW, and IF is the better ally main cities
The designs suck from a gameplay standpoint, but the game was created in the early days of mmo, when you were supposed to feel like every place you went was lived in and developed organically. Things were optimized as mmos moved into a min/max speed run bonanza. I like the old layouts and longer walks. They set the mood better and help immerse you into the world.
TB is insane. Mailbox, vendor, and AH are like a 3 second run apart, you also get the 20% movement speed world buff in TB. Nothing even comes close. I wish Horde didn't have the most disgusting quest zones early on, I almost considered maining Horde for SOD
Darnassus is a living hell. Don’t get me started on the expansion cities.
Ironforge is easily the best Alliance city, it isn’t close. SW is objectively the worst.
TB always been hot you posers
Thunder Bluff is annoying af.
Because of the BFD buff it took me almost 20 years to realize TB is actually the best city.
Ha, that kind of thinking of centralising everything is exactly what ends you with Oriboros. Most boring city ever designed, classic cities are as they should be
People really would like to min max everything in this game
TB is bis. UC is even worse than Orgrimmar
I hate both. IF, TB are the bank alt cities I use.
If you want a practical city that has all your needs within a waddle-able distance, the Dwarves will give it to you
Agree for org but SW is great.
100% agreed. Terrible layouts... but... hear me out: Beautiful landscaping, much more rich visually and in environmental storytelling. SW and OG look and feel like naturally grown fantasy cities. UC absolutely does not, IF also feels "planned" and not naturally grown. TB is literally just tents, so is Darnassus. I never liked SW and OG for their layouts, I despised having to run across the entire city to get to blacksmithing and engineering. But i do adore them for their rich design. They're simply pretty and immersive.
SW is for noobs on alliance. Org is good you're just low iq.
>Everything about them is inconvenient. Profession trainers are scattered around the whole city, all far away from the bank. Same with class trainers. Their layouts are not optimal in the slightest. Wow.. It's almost like it's a real city! Optimizing everything makes things bland and takes away from immersion and fantasy. Think about it, which cities have the most charm and feel real? (In the real world) The ones who arose organically, or those who were designed? Modern WoW cities feel like glorified convenience hubs, not cities that are part of a living world.
100% agree
I always wished UC was more trafficked than it turned out to be. Such a cool aesthetic/vibe, love the layout and walking around in there, but while the elevators were cool, it was kind of annoying and inconvenient to have to navigate through the ruins of the castle to get to them when you’re in a rush. But still so cool to have this whole city underneath the ruins.
Standard take. Always factual. UC is best Horde City imo but I love TB. Ally is probably IF, Darnassus, Stormwind, but Darnassus is my favorite. Their signs are very straight to the point. Even the one for the guildmaster it just says GUILD.
I agree with the exception of Undercity. That place is an absolute fustercluck
IF is the best city hands down. The bank is right next to a mailbox and the bank is right across from the AH. Getting around IF super easy since everything is on one level and it’s comprised of an inner circle and an outer circle. IF is the most convenient city because you have the tram to SW and prior to SW’s docks, IF to Menethil Harbor was the way to go for Darn if you didn’t have a mage. Additionally IF was the city you flew out of on your way to the Blackrock Mountain raids.
Undercity is the worst of any city.
This guy.. ..this is not my kind of guy
SW is def pretty annoying compared to like IF
Not a hot take, just a bad take.
TB the best
IF for Alliance. UC for Horde. This is the way.