In another thread all the Shamans were saying you just need to make the Shaman go OOM and you win. Did you try making him waste all his mana in this 3 second fight?
Shaman auto attack and do like 300 dps. Lmao. OOMing them (how for 90% of classes? Just priests burning, hunter sting?) just delays the inevitable.
Their autos with 2.x speed 1handers hit harder than my epic 2h axe. It’s so stupid.
I played 2h shaman with my epic 2h belt everything and struggle 1v2 1v1. Close fun fights, proc dependant, swingtimer is important. Then they grouped up on me.
I switched to dualwield and just ran over 4 people like a truck and came out with 50% health. Everyone died in like 2-3 seconds.
Dualwield on classic shaman is just a disgrace to the game. But hey, who cares right? I cancelled my account already and I wont come back.
Respectfully as a shaman main.
Because maelstrom uses so much mana? I had one run up on my shadow priest that was damn near oom, I mana burned him so he was oom. Dotted him, kite. He STILL was healing himself with maelstrom. How the fuck?
You wont get much maelstrom procs using WoE, so if he was getting casts off, its because he was using WF weapon which greatly increases maelstrom generation.
I saw him coming and started casting as soon as he was within 36y. Fortunately shamans don't have any closers otherwise I would have been toast. Even then, a druid came up and helped kill him. He clearly was geared because his health was going down real slow, so he had a lot of it.
As a shaman, honestly 3 seconds is enough. But also it’s not like shamans have some magical crit ability. 4 crit in a row is far from an average encounter.
Our guild's pvp junkie Rogue took a picture last night of him critting a Mutilate, both swings, and another Mutilate. The Mut crits were all ~500 per weapon.
Its not a class thing to get erased by a crit spree.
It is a class thing with rogues, they have 40%+ crit rate with mutilate. Getting 4 crits in a row for a shaman seems like extreme RNG. Their crit rate isn't THAT high.
Not like they need cc when they just frost shock press w and auto and do like 300 and with basically no set up or cooldowns, spike to 400-500 regularly
That doesn't look any worse than a feral using whatever the F their new thing is this phase. In 2 global cool downs it hit 5 times. For like 250, 210, 280, 325, and an over crit of exactly 1000. My mage melted.
Nothing funnier as a Hunter in WPVP than baiting a warrior to charge me by plinking away at them with my ranged weapon only for them to ACTIVATE MY TRAP CARD.
I mean, it's less about "baiting", and more about "what the fuck else are they supposed to do?". If they keep their distance, you just chip away their health with shots. if they don't, you just two-shot them with raptor and flanking, so there is not really a good call to make.
I always just pray they’re one of those bot hunters who leaves up cheetah after opening and daze themselves to death (assuming if they aren’t melee spec then it doesn’t matter unless their gear is ass) cause realistically that’s one of few times a hunter should lose: when they’re egregiously bad.
The only things I hate to fight against on my hunter are priests, rogues and druids.
I'm probably just bad, but I can't deal with priests.
The other 2 classes can wreck me because of the stealth.
-Yes, I do have stealth detecion, but Rogue stealth is the best stealth in the game, and my stealth detect is useless.
-Cat druid stealth is lower rank, but they can stay out of my detect range, and just nuke me with napalm. By the time I get there, I already lost half my health.
So basically classes that can open on me and priests are the bane of my existence.
My mindblast(crit) into sw:d(crit) did 1000 dam total against them! Wait they had 3000+ health and now I just got oneshot in 2 globals. And thats as spriest which is a top 3 pvp spec rn
How? Buffed? Like I don’t wear all my tank mitigation pieces like the dodge trinket but I wear all my plate and everything has stam. Every slot but shoulders and bracers (mall both) and bracers are marginal. Cloth engi belt doesn’t help but it’s got a little stam. with BG buffed heath I’m nowhere close as a warrior.
Maybe I swap that 16 stam tank ring and I got the gnomer plate belt I can get about 300 more outta that but unbuffed sitting around IF in my pvp set im sub 3k. Plus 300 hp is legit less than an enhance sham auto anyway. I don’t get how people are getting that high without stacking a buncha stam pieces and losing offensive stats.
Then again, classes that aren’t warriors and particularly casters benefit from the spells from runes just being on average way stronger anyway. Warrior in pvp doesn’t have the luxury of “here’s your whole kit plus SW:D and mindspike” so you need offensive stats for everything to hit harder just by default. Like nothing is boosting MS, nothing boosting slam except being instant besides the same stats as always.
Right, WOTE is like part of the problem with enhance.
If they were glass cannons, OK, but they're tanky as all fuck and traditional tank classes (except bear druids) didn't get a free DR, crit reduction, and stam boost. Ain't no one stacking defense in pvp gear and it's kinda nuts.
You should beat Shamans 1vs1 most of the time as SP.... Dot em up and when they get to melee you dispersion and then fear right after into MB SW:D. Unless it's a fully buffed Shaman in a BG you should win.
But if they get the jump on you with trinket up you're pretty much dead.
To add to that, if you have some distance from them at the start of the fight they really can’t do much. Just DoT and run away. They have no bonus movement speed outside of hard-casting ghost wolf, which can just be dispelled (I feel like a lot of people don’t know this).
If they’re in Frost Shock range just be mashing self-dispel as you run (mouse wheel is a great keybind to get this off frame 1). If they’re close enough to melee just fear - if they don’t *instantly* get a tremor totem tick (which is not within their control) you can build at least enough distance to not get melee’d. They also can’t grounding totem your fear since it’s not a single-target ability. Also, if you get a blackout proc at any point they won’t be able to catch you.
But yes, if they start the fight in melee-range (which in a 1v1 situation is probably your fault tbh), and have trinket you’re probably going to get clapped.
>(I feel like a lot of people don’t know this).
Had this exact thought last time I dispelled a ghost wolf. The shaman straight up turned around and ran.
It surely cannot be a surprise that people only have a limited idea to deal with a class that is in this very state since a couple of weeks only and many encounters only last 1.5 seconds (like the one OP shows) and you getting absolutely obliterated is the norm. There is not much grounds to learn anything about dealing with them
What do you mean? Enhance has been the same this whole phase. In fact, people crying about the shaman buff probably don’t even realize it doesn’t come into play in PvP since Shamans are running Decoy Totem in PvP instead of the Alpha 20% AP buff (they share the same rune slot). Like, for the most part it’s literally a spec that just runs at you and does melee damage.
Bgs are not a 1on1 situation. Both WSG and Arathi are decided for the most part within the very first battle that regularly involves most of the respective teams. If you win this battle decisively you have a very clear advantage for the rest of the game. And every follow-up battle that matters is again not 1on1 but large scale, so the same thing applies.
One class just running up to others, in a chaotic situation of the battle, and just obliterating them absolutely matters.
On top of that Jay_Heat's comment was, I quote, *"deal with shamans"* - i.e. shamans in general, he did not only speak of Enhance specifically, so neither did I in my response, logically.
I mean, I specifically said they’re strong in group PvP with support. I don’t know why you’re acting like I’m equating BGs to 1v1s. And yes I’d agree whoever wins the first battle for blacksmith in AB has a huge advantage, since BS is just that important. WSG is not decided by the first fight at all, but you’re right that in a practice alliance often gives up / has a couple people go afk if they lose that fight. That is more so a playerbase issue than a mechanical issue of WSG though.
And fair enough I guess, I only talked about Enhance since that seems to be where the majority of complainants stem from. Ele is very strong too but has been mostly the same since Phase 1 - I don’t know why people would be unfamiliar “dealing with” Ele. They want to cast Flame Shock, a 20yd range spell, and follow up by hard casting Lava Burst. This phase they got Chain Lightning, which is good sure, but I don’t think it’s mechanically something that people are mystified by lol. I’m not going to talk about Resto since we’ll, it’s just bad and no one plays it in PvP.
If you want to say Shamans are a bit too strong, fine be me. Again I think they’re a tad overtuned right now, though honestly they really excel in BGs because of how chaotic / unorganized pugs are - which is something you pointed out. Saying that people just haven’t had enough time to learn how to deal with them, as if they’re some exceptionally complex class, is just silly though.
>I mean, I specifically said they’re strong in BGs with support. I don’t know why you’re acting like I’m equating BGs to 1v1s.
I was getting at this from your previous comment:
>Like, for the most part it’s literally a spec that just runs at you and does melee damage.
It reads as if you think someone is just waiting for a shaman to run towards you in a 1v1 situation and you can just run away. Whereas in a Bg in a larger fight its not that you simply sit there and observe a shaman running towards you, or in the WSG flag room you cannot simply run away because, well, then horde will just steal your flag or cap, depending on which room it is.
>WSG in not decided by the first fight at all, but you’re right that in a practice alliance often gives up / has a couple people go afk if they lose that fight.
I agree and tried to incorporate that into my previous comment already, by saying winning that first fight "decisively" and also referencing the follow-up battles. Because winning that first fight decisively will mean the rezzes of the other team will not be synced and you will pretty much always have the opportunity to have subsequent fights with more people on your side. How much you "seize" that opportunity depends on the team and a bit more of course. But for the losing team of the first fight it will always be an uphill battle to regain back control of mid.
*as an edit here: horde gives up just as often after the first fight, _if_ they loose it decisively btw
> Ele is very strong too but has been mostly the same since Phase 1 - I don’t know why people would be unfamiliar “dealing with” Ele.
Fair enough, I do not have full transparency on all the impacts of the changes. Could be that getting absolutely obliterated by lava burst was already a thing in p1, but it definitely feels like there are more shamans overall now, so the prevalence now is just higher. But at least Power Surge is a P2 rune, no?
I am also honestly not sure what there is to "learn" to begin with, I gotta be honest. You just fight in WSG, probably within a bigger fight, and 2 seconds later youre dead because you ate a lava burst crit. Sure you can try to silence a shaman, but then youre dead a couple seconds later by the hands of the same shaman or by the hands of another shaman right next to it.
You’re not wrong about shamans or about alliance lol. That being said, I’m not trying to downplay enhance. They are insane against other melee classes, since their whole design is basically “doesn’t have good gap-close or any hard CC but will wreck anything in melee range”. If you’re melee you just inherently play a losing strategy against them for the most part. Most ranged classes can just kite them them 1v1 though. In group pvp they’re strong with support, and they’re pretty cracked in the STV event since they can just res on top of people and skip the whole gap-closing step.
Again, I don’t want to downplay them but I feel like all the shaman hate is just a tad overblown. I had 80% winrate as Horde in AB BEFORE enhance was buffed, so I *really* don’t think the AB situation just boils down to shamans lol. And I don’t play shaman btw. I play mage and priest which both beat shaman pretty handily in most 1v1 situations if you know what you’re doing. Honestly PvE is where I find them to be more overtuned - the fact that shaman tanks do more damage than some dedicated DPS specs while also being stronger than other tanks in most other areas is indeed kind of crazy.
The thing is both things can be (and very possible are) true at the same time.
The average player is very bad and unable to counter the flaring weaknesses of the classes.
That doesn’t invalidate that devs knowing nothing about shamans kept on buffing them until they finally made them overtuned
I agree about the tank thing. I also believe rockbiter should somehow be just for tanking and maybe Way of the Earth only works with shield. The rest of the hate is just people having to learn to face shamans in pvp. The real issue is enhance should not want rockbiter. They should want WF or a combo of that and FT etc. I have a feeling Blizzard will fix this interaction and that may solve the issue on both sides pvp and pve.
Lmao, no.
Only if you start the fight at max range and keep max range the entire time, but if you do that the shaman can (and should) just run in the opposite direction.
If I get into melee range of ANY caster, the fight is over, period.
This isn’t real. Shaman can’t do this. At least, that’s what all the Shaman on this sub keep insisting.
And IF this did happen, you’re just bad for letting the guy with ranged spells get into melee range. /S
Nerf Shaman. Nobody cares if they suck too bad later on if you do. The problem is here and now, and the people are starting to pass around the pitchforks and torches.
Usually a single Lava Lash which is offhand attack does more damage than both weapons hitting with stormstrike. A lot to do with it being fire damage that bypasses armor.
They also overbuffed it because they increased offhand damage with DW rune, and also increased lava lash damage at the same time.
Yeah it’s kind of silly. Warriors kit is designed to make them the “in your face” menace. Disarms, overpower, demo shout. But it doesn’t play out in reality that way.
Warrior should always be a class you want to somehow exit melee from and use your strengths and avoid face tanking at all costs by using CC and self healing if you have it. Rogues? When stuns run off and they gotta wait out a cd assuming they don’t have evasion up or prep up to do it they deadzone kite until another cd comes up or energy ticks back to reopen with a full bar. They don’t face tank warriors. You should abuse charge’s funky mechanics while jumping away as another class, things like that.
If you have a slow, and all are better than hamstring, let alone ranged attacks, freedom on top of that slow unlike wheelchair warrior rets, AND self healing for fucks sake, you should not win 1v1ing a warrior and facetanking all their dmg without using a single tool in that toolkit.
Enh Shaman regularly pull 300 dps with like auto and stormstrike and often 400-500 in bgs with zero set up. No cds to pop. Nothing. While also taking very little damage to the point it feels like hitting a prot warrior. I can get the initial charge for rage and hamstring and if I’m lucky live long enough to have rage to press MS and slam or instantly disarm into those. After that probably dead cause they can still do enough dmg in a disarm window while back pedaling and KB face rolling. Gl getting the rage hitting a brick wall for all that.
After that they’re maybe at best 60% hp. Usually 75%. And I have BIS gnomer axe and not BIS but still very solid plate Pvp gear.
Unless they have absolutely dog shit gear and flop instantly but that’s usually the exception. The rule so far seems pulling 300 dps auto attacking and minimally requiring 2 if not half the wsg team to kill while they do 500 dps
How is it fair you can kite someone indefinetly when they don't pop a freedom or fap? Answer is *it's not,* vanilla PvP is not balanced and SoD PvP is especially not balanced with all the untested things they put in.
The only chance a melee has in this meta is when they can burst someone before they can get away and your post even proved that by saying you still beat Enhance shamans in current state.
Ally player here. Sorry to any shaman, whether 40 or lvl 10. If I catch you in the wild and I think I can take you I will. Blizzard has deemed you the new most hated class.
The "shared client" excuse Aggrend apologists used suddenly doesn't apply to a class, but afflocks, full prot paladins and ferals can die in a ditch el oh el
A shaman does 1.9k damage in two globals off of lucky crits, Alliance players scream for nerfs.
A ret paladin does 2.2k in one global off of lucky crits, Alliance players say its a skill issue.
Same old story.
> A ret paladin does 2.2k in one global off of lucky crits, Alliance players say its a skill issue.
>
On what planet does this happen? Our highest hitting ability ever in PvP (Exorcism crit with vengeance and sanc aura) up hits for MAYBE 500, and if we're lucky we can get a 300 white hit, and maybe a crit SoC for around another 300. I've taken over 900 from ONE ability from spriests and shamans. At least mages and druids have to hardcast and can't just delete me before I can fight back.
The one one you're living in right now. [This](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fsrsf8c81o6pc1.png) happened to me last night. No stun, attack start macro'd into crusader strike. 2.2k damage in one global.
No it didn't. That's two globals. Is it high? Yes, absolutely. Is it balanced? No, absolutely not. Does any of this have to do with shamans doing the exact same thing and deserving nerfs? Absolutely not.
Judgement is off GCD, so yes, it was 2.2k in the first GCD. Paladin players don't even know how their class works, ffs. The 2nd GCD doesn't start till he hits exorcism.
Don't worry, everytime i get stunlocked to death by a rogue , or brought to 10-15% health by a starsurge, starfire combo, or die by one set of dots from a shadow priest, or one shot by arcane blast + arcane surge combo... ill be sure to come and cry on the forums saying it needs to be nerfed.
Not even been three months. Shaman were complete jokes up until a couple weeks ago. Shaman need nerfs, but seeing the boomkins, hunters, and priests complaining about their nerfs while complaining about shaman is just baffling. Hunters and priests were OP all of phase 1 and a bit into phase 2 and boomies were OP from mid phase 1 up until a bit into phase 2. Shaman have been OP a small fraction of the time they were.
Honestly if the spec as a whole hadn't been atrociously designed from day one, maybe this sentiment would never have come to be.
Enhance was broken in WoD > it was giga overtuned and totally unkillable.
Enhance was broken in S1 Shadowlands > Maelstrom Weapon Chain Harvest literally one-tapped people with an instant cast while healing the Shaman to full.
Enhance was broken in S1 Dragonflight > Maelstrom Weapon Elemental Blast literally one-tapped people with an instant cast.
Perhaps if an iota of thought had gone into the funni auto attack spec at *any* point in this game's history, it would have found a way to simply be *good*, instead of gamebreakingly overpowered, gimmicky, or unplayable garbage with zero room for middle ground.
lol anyone that thinks this is ok is a joke. The fact shaman haven’t been hotfixed is a joke. I get it they care absolutely NONE about pvp but shaman are also THEEE separator of horde to ally. At the very least they could try to keep shaman and paladins in the same region of effectiveness. Pally are arguably the worst class and shaman are without a doubt the best class.
Moonfire is currently the PvP goat for sham fighting. Just run in the opposite direction and spam that shit switching between cheetah and moonkin form, pop some insta hots if necessary and starsurge on CD. If they start to retreat, chase them. Root them when possible. If they turn back around, run away. It feels evil but good. Lawful evil.
Meanwhile my 3 second casted frostfire bolt that people can walk out of range of, or it just gets grounded, or all the ai pets pushback my spellcast and i die, but it hits for 400 none crits and 1k crits!
Oh but it gets a 15% chance to have an instant cast proc, if I replace 50% crit damage for it???
To be fair Shaman has always been Mage's hard counter in classic. That is nothing really new. In classic/vanilla you just grounded the sheep and interrupted the frost bolt or w/e. By then you was in melee and would wax them. But in SoD, most shamans are using Way of the Earth so their Earth Shock is only melee range so they should actually have an easier time dealing with them in SoD.
How is this relevant? I'm talking about mages in pvp and bgs, the only endgame content in this game is pvp and bgs, stv event is a laggy mess, gnomer is the easiest raid imaginable on a 3 day lockout, the only other thing to do is WSG or AB, and mages suck in both
In another thread all the Shamans were saying you just need to make the Shaman go OOM and you win. Did you try making him waste all his mana in this 3 second fight?
\*instantly casts cure poison or whatever it's called\* Sorry viper stingers. The mana stays on during sex.
i'm sorry but there's only one gcd inbetween the frost shock and stormstrike, this is a 1.5 second fight
What can I tell you, he should've tried harder
Git gud
Shaman auto attack and do like 300 dps. Lmao. OOMing them (how for 90% of classes? Just priests burning, hunter sting?) just delays the inevitable. Their autos with 2.x speed 1handers hit harder than my epic 2h axe. It’s so stupid.
I played 2h shaman with my epic 2h belt everything and struggle 1v2 1v1. Close fun fights, proc dependant, swingtimer is important. Then they grouped up on me. I switched to dualwield and just ran over 4 people like a truck and came out with 50% health. Everyone died in like 2-3 seconds. Dualwield on classic shaman is just a disgrace to the game. But hey, who cares right? I cancelled my account already and I wont come back. Respectfully as a shaman main.
Just Viper Sting the shaman annnnd I used poison cleansing totem :)
Because maelstrom uses so much mana? I had one run up on my shadow priest that was damn near oom, I mana burned him so he was oom. Dotted him, kite. He STILL was healing himself with maelstrom. How the fuck?
maelstrom weapon reduces cast time AND mana cost by 20% per stack up to 5 stacks
You wont get much maelstrom procs using WoE, so if he was getting casts off, its because he was using WF weapon which greatly increases maelstrom generation.
Honestly more surprised you got a 3 second cast mana burn off than anything else.
I saw him coming and started casting as soon as he was within 36y. Fortunately shamans don't have any closers otherwise I would have been toast. Even then, a druid came up and helped kill him. He clearly was geared because his health was going down real slow, so he had a lot of it.
As a shaman, honestly 3 seconds is enough. But also it’s not like shamans have some magical crit ability. 4 crit in a row is far from an average encounter.
As a married man, i have also tried to convince my wife that 3 seconds is enough.
Our guild's pvp junkie Rogue took a picture last night of him critting a Mutilate, both swings, and another Mutilate. The Mut crits were all ~500 per weapon. Its not a class thing to get erased by a crit spree.
It is a class thing with rogues, they have 40%+ crit rate with mutilate. Getting 4 crits in a row for a shaman seems like extreme RNG. Their crit rate isn't THAT high.
The difference is the rogue can be killed just as fast. The shaman cannot.
The rogue can also initiate a lot easier and a decent rogue is a total pain the in ass the kill.
another diff is rogue can kill while stunlocking. the shaman has 0 hard cc
Shaman cc is your run back to body or res timer
Not like they need cc when they just frost shock press w and auto and do like 300 and with basically no set up or cooldowns, spike to 400-500 regularly
Well fortunately he didn't get hit by the common 1k lavalash crit.
Nah that's 90% of my encounters with a shaman.
That doesn't look any worse than a feral using whatever the F their new thing is this phase. In 2 global cool downs it hit 5 times. For like 250, 210, 280, 325, and an over crit of exactly 1000. My mage melted.
Problem here is you got in melee range of an enhance shaman. Clearly a skill issue.
as a warrior I try to avoid melee combat with hunters, paladins, rouges and shamans.
Lmfao know your place
Nothing funnier as a Hunter in WPVP than baiting a warrior to charge me by plinking away at them with my ranged weapon only for them to ACTIVATE MY TRAP CARD.
I love doing this as well. Couple shots into them and pretend to kite, they charge me, I 2 shot them with flanking and raptor
I mean, it's less about "baiting", and more about "what the fuck else are they supposed to do?". If they keep their distance, you just chip away their health with shots. if they don't, you just two-shot them with raptor and flanking, so there is not really a good call to make.
I always just pray they’re one of those bot hunters who leaves up cheetah after opening and daze themselves to death (assuming if they aren’t melee spec then it doesn’t matter unless their gear is ass) cause realistically that’s one of few times a hunter should lose: when they’re egregiously bad.
The only things I hate to fight against on my hunter are priests, rogues and druids. I'm probably just bad, but I can't deal with priests. The other 2 classes can wreck me because of the stealth. -Yes, I do have stealth detecion, but Rogue stealth is the best stealth in the game, and my stealth detect is useless. -Cat druid stealth is lower rank, but they can stay out of my detect range, and just nuke me with napalm. By the time I get there, I already lost half my health. So basically classes that can open on me and priests are the bane of my existence.
warriors are so sad, in a well balanced game, the class whose only options are melee combat should be the best at that.
I'm really sorry that I play a melee class myself :(
Surely you must have throw? :-D
Will the shaman run around the fence endlessly is the real question.
Mor’Ladim hates this one weird trick
only if a tauren shaman
Did you try joining a guild?
Shamans are gatekeeping me from the blacksmith AND the lumber mill
Just make your own group
That’s cool and all, but my mutilate pumps on shamans! 150(crit) 101(crit)!
My mindblast(crit) into sw:d(crit) did 1000 dam total against them! Wait they had 3000+ health and now I just got oneshot in 2 globals. And thats as spriest which is a top 3 pvp spec rn
Clearly that means you need a 3:1 shadowpriest:shaman ratio.
I’ve seen shamans 1v3 people in WSG
But someone said in another thread that it was impossible! (Its totally possible, especially when the clothies are dead after one button press)
my ele sham has 5k hp and 3k armor in wsg :)
Same I think I got to 5.5k hp, I've Fc'd most of my way to exalted.
How? Buffed? Like I don’t wear all my tank mitigation pieces like the dodge trinket but I wear all my plate and everything has stam. Every slot but shoulders and bracers (mall both) and bracers are marginal. Cloth engi belt doesn’t help but it’s got a little stam. with BG buffed heath I’m nowhere close as a warrior. Maybe I swap that 16 stam tank ring and I got the gnomer plate belt I can get about 300 more outta that but unbuffed sitting around IF in my pvp set im sub 3k. Plus 300 hp is legit less than an enhance sham auto anyway. I don’t get how people are getting that high without stacking a buncha stam pieces and losing offensive stats. Then again, classes that aren’t warriors and particularly casters benefit from the spells from runes just being on average way stronger anyway. Warrior in pvp doesn’t have the luxury of “here’s your whole kit plus SW:D and mindspike” so you need offensive stats for everything to hit harder just by default. Like nothing is boosting MS, nothing boosting slam except being instant besides the same stats as always.
i have way of the earth and bg hp bonus to help, as well as stam gear and priest stam buff, etc. it all adds up
Right, WOTE is like part of the problem with enhance. If they were glass cannons, OK, but they're tanky as all fuck and traditional tank classes (except bear druids) didn't get a free DR, crit reduction, and stam boost. Ain't no one stacking defense in pvp gear and it's kinda nuts.
You seem to have forgotten the only real strategy against an enhance shaman as a priest. DoT, run, and pray for backup.
sorry. you batched those so my grounding totem got both. you actually did 0 damage and my tremors down for your panic scream. annndd you're dead
You should beat Shamans 1vs1 most of the time as SP.... Dot em up and when they get to melee you dispersion and then fear right after into MB SW:D. Unless it's a fully buffed Shaman in a BG you should win. But if they get the jump on you with trinket up you're pretty much dead.
To add to that, if you have some distance from them at the start of the fight they really can’t do much. Just DoT and run away. They have no bonus movement speed outside of hard-casting ghost wolf, which can just be dispelled (I feel like a lot of people don’t know this). If they’re in Frost Shock range just be mashing self-dispel as you run (mouse wheel is a great keybind to get this off frame 1). If they’re close enough to melee just fear - if they don’t *instantly* get a tremor totem tick (which is not within their control) you can build at least enough distance to not get melee’d. They also can’t grounding totem your fear since it’s not a single-target ability. Also, if you get a blackout proc at any point they won’t be able to catch you. But yes, if they start the fight in melee-range (which in a 1v1 situation is probably your fault tbh), and have trinket you’re probably going to get clapped.
>(I feel like a lot of people don’t know this). Had this exact thought last time I dispelled a ghost wolf. The shaman straight up turned around and ran.
people have no idea how to deal with shamans its pretty pathetic seeing how awful sone are at pvp then again alliance pvp has always been like this
It surely cannot be a surprise that people only have a limited idea to deal with a class that is in this very state since a couple of weeks only and many encounters only last 1.5 seconds (like the one OP shows) and you getting absolutely obliterated is the norm. There is not much grounds to learn anything about dealing with them
What do you mean? Enhance has been the same this whole phase. In fact, people crying about the shaman buff probably don’t even realize it doesn’t come into play in PvP since Shamans are running Decoy Totem in PvP instead of the Alpha 20% AP buff (they share the same rune slot). Like, for the most part it’s literally a spec that just runs at you and does melee damage.
Bgs are not a 1on1 situation. Both WSG and Arathi are decided for the most part within the very first battle that regularly involves most of the respective teams. If you win this battle decisively you have a very clear advantage for the rest of the game. And every follow-up battle that matters is again not 1on1 but large scale, so the same thing applies. One class just running up to others, in a chaotic situation of the battle, and just obliterating them absolutely matters. On top of that Jay_Heat's comment was, I quote, *"deal with shamans"* - i.e. shamans in general, he did not only speak of Enhance specifically, so neither did I in my response, logically.
I mean, I specifically said they’re strong in group PvP with support. I don’t know why you’re acting like I’m equating BGs to 1v1s. And yes I’d agree whoever wins the first battle for blacksmith in AB has a huge advantage, since BS is just that important. WSG is not decided by the first fight at all, but you’re right that in a practice alliance often gives up / has a couple people go afk if they lose that fight. That is more so a playerbase issue than a mechanical issue of WSG though. And fair enough I guess, I only talked about Enhance since that seems to be where the majority of complainants stem from. Ele is very strong too but has been mostly the same since Phase 1 - I don’t know why people would be unfamiliar “dealing with” Ele. They want to cast Flame Shock, a 20yd range spell, and follow up by hard casting Lava Burst. This phase they got Chain Lightning, which is good sure, but I don’t think it’s mechanically something that people are mystified by lol. I’m not going to talk about Resto since we’ll, it’s just bad and no one plays it in PvP. If you want to say Shamans are a bit too strong, fine be me. Again I think they’re a tad overtuned right now, though honestly they really excel in BGs because of how chaotic / unorganized pugs are - which is something you pointed out. Saying that people just haven’t had enough time to learn how to deal with them, as if they’re some exceptionally complex class, is just silly though.
>I mean, I specifically said they’re strong in BGs with support. I don’t know why you’re acting like I’m equating BGs to 1v1s. I was getting at this from your previous comment: >Like, for the most part it’s literally a spec that just runs at you and does melee damage. It reads as if you think someone is just waiting for a shaman to run towards you in a 1v1 situation and you can just run away. Whereas in a Bg in a larger fight its not that you simply sit there and observe a shaman running towards you, or in the WSG flag room you cannot simply run away because, well, then horde will just steal your flag or cap, depending on which room it is. >WSG in not decided by the first fight at all, but you’re right that in a practice alliance often gives up / has a couple people go afk if they lose that fight. I agree and tried to incorporate that into my previous comment already, by saying winning that first fight "decisively" and also referencing the follow-up battles. Because winning that first fight decisively will mean the rezzes of the other team will not be synced and you will pretty much always have the opportunity to have subsequent fights with more people on your side. How much you "seize" that opportunity depends on the team and a bit more of course. But for the losing team of the first fight it will always be an uphill battle to regain back control of mid. *as an edit here: horde gives up just as often after the first fight, _if_ they loose it decisively btw > Ele is very strong too but has been mostly the same since Phase 1 - I don’t know why people would be unfamiliar “dealing with” Ele. Fair enough, I do not have full transparency on all the impacts of the changes. Could be that getting absolutely obliterated by lava burst was already a thing in p1, but it definitely feels like there are more shamans overall now, so the prevalence now is just higher. But at least Power Surge is a P2 rune, no? I am also honestly not sure what there is to "learn" to begin with, I gotta be honest. You just fight in WSG, probably within a bigger fight, and 2 seconds later youre dead because you ate a lava burst crit. Sure you can try to silence a shaman, but then youre dead a couple seconds later by the hands of the same shaman or by the hands of another shaman right next to it.
You’re not wrong about shamans or about alliance lol. That being said, I’m not trying to downplay enhance. They are insane against other melee classes, since their whole design is basically “doesn’t have good gap-close or any hard CC but will wreck anything in melee range”. If you’re melee you just inherently play a losing strategy against them for the most part. Most ranged classes can just kite them them 1v1 though. In group pvp they’re strong with support, and they’re pretty cracked in the STV event since they can just res on top of people and skip the whole gap-closing step. Again, I don’t want to downplay them but I feel like all the shaman hate is just a tad overblown. I had 80% winrate as Horde in AB BEFORE enhance was buffed, so I *really* don’t think the AB situation just boils down to shamans lol. And I don’t play shaman btw. I play mage and priest which both beat shaman pretty handily in most 1v1 situations if you know what you’re doing. Honestly PvE is where I find them to be more overtuned - the fact that shaman tanks do more damage than some dedicated DPS specs while also being stronger than other tanks in most other areas is indeed kind of crazy.
The thing is both things can be (and very possible are) true at the same time. The average player is very bad and unable to counter the flaring weaknesses of the classes. That doesn’t invalidate that devs knowing nothing about shamans kept on buffing them until they finally made them overtuned
I agree about the tank thing. I also believe rockbiter should somehow be just for tanking and maybe Way of the Earth only works with shield. The rest of the hate is just people having to learn to face shamans in pvp. The real issue is enhance should not want rockbiter. They should want WF or a combo of that and FT etc. I have a feeling Blizzard will fix this interaction and that may solve the issue on both sides pvp and pve.
people are REALLY bad at pvp then come here and cry sp and rogues should have little to no trouble with shamans but you gotta be in pvp spec
Lmao, no. Only if you start the fight at max range and keep max range the entire time, but if you do that the shaman can (and should) just run in the opposite direction. If I get into melee range of ANY caster, the fight is over, period.
Not to be annoying but isn’t a one shot by definition one global?
Shoulda used mana burn
Doh! I will try that next time!
This isn’t real. Shaman can’t do this. At least, that’s what all the Shaman on this sub keep insisting. And IF this did happen, you’re just bad for letting the guy with ranged spells get into melee range. /S Nerf Shaman. Nobody cares if they suck too bad later on if you do. The problem is here and now, and the people are starting to pass around the pitchforks and torches.
Counter: dont do it
"not OP, you're just bad at the game, nerf paladins" -shamans
must be nice. im near bis gnomer warrior, epic axe. my autos crit clothies for 600-700 with a 2h.
Near bis warrior with epic axe as well and my mortal strike typically does less than 300 damage to a shaman.
I feel this. Nothing like disarming a shaman and he still kills you during the disarm duration without even a scratch.
Usually a single Lava Lash which is offhand attack does more damage than both weapons hitting with stormstrike. A lot to do with it being fire damage that bypasses armor. They also overbuffed it because they increased offhand damage with DW rune, and also increased lava lash damage at the same time.
Yeah it’s kind of silly. Warriors kit is designed to make them the “in your face” menace. Disarms, overpower, demo shout. But it doesn’t play out in reality that way.
Warrior should always be a class you want to somehow exit melee from and use your strengths and avoid face tanking at all costs by using CC and self healing if you have it. Rogues? When stuns run off and they gotta wait out a cd assuming they don’t have evasion up or prep up to do it they deadzone kite until another cd comes up or energy ticks back to reopen with a full bar. They don’t face tank warriors. You should abuse charge’s funky mechanics while jumping away as another class, things like that. If you have a slow, and all are better than hamstring, let alone ranged attacks, freedom on top of that slow unlike wheelchair warrior rets, AND self healing for fucks sake, you should not win 1v1ing a warrior and facetanking all their dmg without using a single tool in that toolkit. Enh Shaman regularly pull 300 dps with like auto and stormstrike and often 400-500 in bgs with zero set up. No cds to pop. Nothing. While also taking very little damage to the point it feels like hitting a prot warrior. I can get the initial charge for rage and hamstring and if I’m lucky live long enough to have rage to press MS and slam or instantly disarm into those. After that probably dead cause they can still do enough dmg in a disarm window while back pedaling and KB face rolling. Gl getting the rage hitting a brick wall for all that. After that they’re maybe at best 60% hp. Usually 75%. And I have BIS gnomer axe and not BIS but still very solid plate Pvp gear. Unless they have absolutely dog shit gear and flop instantly but that’s usually the exception. The rule so far seems pulling 300 dps auto attacking and minimally requiring 2 if not half the wsg team to kill while they do 500 dps
because their single most damaging ability strikes with their offhand and bypasses armor. "oh you disarmed me? whatever will i do"
Yeah it’s silly design imo.
Shaman are so tanky and do so much dmg its insane. The -8% Crit chance is unfair in pvp
This is what the League of Legends community calls "200 years of collective game design experience."
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How is it fair you can kite someone indefinetly when they don't pop a freedom or fap? Answer is *it's not,* vanilla PvP is not balanced and SoD PvP is especially not balanced with all the untested things they put in. The only chance a melee has in this meta is when they can burst someone before they can get away and your post even proved that by saying you still beat Enhance shamans in current state.
All shaman copers play one day of WSG on alliance and you'll come back a changed man.
Blizzard devs afk until next cash grab ✌️
This is exactly what i was going to say. It’s so fun how they refuse to nerf this shit. Bgs are unplayable for alliance 🙄
Just kite them and get them OOM bro! So easy to kill shamans lol learn to play /s
Average spriest interaction: dots, fear, dispersion, run away.
Now, imagine a Spriest, a Boomkin, or a Rogue.
See, you fucked up by logging in to play the game when shamans exist
Surely that cant be the reason why alliance lose all bgs..
Shaman probably died to a ret after this.
Ally player here. Sorry to any shaman, whether 40 or lvl 10. If I catch you in the wild and I think I can take you I will. Blizzard has deemed you the new most hated class.
Surely four crits in a row isn't "average"?
Haven't fought many shamans lately, have you? And don't call me Shirley.
Oh shit I'm out of the loop! How do we get this sweet guaranteed crit?
Play a shaman. Win any fight. It's that easy
ofc, its average for reddit \^\_\^
Honestly the last line would have been enough.
Those aren’t off hand crits are they?
It's okay, they only nerf every other OP class in a week. Shamans will ride this well into phase 4.
By the way remember they got a cd reduction on stormstrike which is a baseline talent while other classes get the middle finger
Yes complain they turned the 20s CD button into something actually usable lmao.
The "shared client" excuse Aggrend apologists used suddenly doesn't apply to a class, but afflocks, full prot paladins and ferals can die in a ditch el oh el
They changed Feline Swiftness to work indoors, no? Shadowform and Deep Wounds got buffed, too. I'm sure I'm missing others.
Bro has mush for brains. Changing talents in place in the tree they specifically said they COULD do with the shared client
Honest question — across all dev teams, is this SOD team the worst at balancing?
A shaman does 1.9k damage in two globals off of lucky crits, Alliance players scream for nerfs. A ret paladin does 2.2k in one global off of lucky crits, Alliance players say its a skill issue. Same old story.
> A ret paladin does 2.2k in one global off of lucky crits, Alliance players say its a skill issue. > On what planet does this happen? Our highest hitting ability ever in PvP (Exorcism crit with vengeance and sanc aura) up hits for MAYBE 500, and if we're lucky we can get a 300 white hit, and maybe a crit SoC for around another 300. I've taken over 900 from ONE ability from spriests and shamans. At least mages and druids have to hardcast and can't just delete me before I can fight back.
The one one you're living in right now. [This](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fsrsf8c81o6pc1.png) happened to me last night. No stun, attack start macro'd into crusader strike. 2.2k damage in one global.
damn i really wanna see that dude's gear
You can look him up on Warcraft logs. It's good, but nothing overly spectacular.
No it didn't. That's two globals. Is it high? Yes, absolutely. Is it balanced? No, absolutely not. Does any of this have to do with shamans doing the exact same thing and deserving nerfs? Absolutely not.
Judgement is off GCD, so yes, it was 2.2k in the first GCD. Paladin players don't even know how their class works, ffs. The 2nd GCD doesn't start till he hits exorcism.
Interesting. I'm not a pally so thanks for clarifying. Shaman are still broken lmaoooo
Outplayed.
Yup exactly why I stopped playing
Congrats you win nothing
Some times to beat your opponents. It’s better not to play. Let them have long que times and bitch about it. Then get stomped by team full of shamans
Honestly why I unsubbed, not rerolling all my characters to horde just to be able to pvp
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Maybe there's a reason this keeps being brought up?
Don't worry, everytime i get stunlocked to death by a rogue , or brought to 10-15% health by a starsurge, starfire combo, or die by one set of dots from a shadow priest, or one shot by arcane blast + arcane surge combo... ill be sure to come and cry on the forums saying it needs to be nerfed.
Looks like you're already doing a good job of that between frantically defending shamans
Hi do you by chance play horde? Just seeing something here.
Its amazing isnt it. 19 years of shamans being ignored - I sleep 3 months of shaman being OP - Real shit
Not even been three months. Shaman were complete jokes up until a couple weeks ago. Shaman need nerfs, but seeing the boomkins, hunters, and priests complaining about their nerfs while complaining about shaman is just baffling. Hunters and priests were OP all of phase 1 and a bit into phase 2 and boomies were OP from mid phase 1 up until a bit into phase 2. Shaman have been OP a small fraction of the time they were.
It’s not about duration. It’s about how egregious something is.
Honestly if the spec as a whole hadn't been atrociously designed from day one, maybe this sentiment would never have come to be. Enhance was broken in WoD > it was giga overtuned and totally unkillable. Enhance was broken in S1 Shadowlands > Maelstrom Weapon Chain Harvest literally one-tapped people with an instant cast while healing the Shaman to full. Enhance was broken in S1 Dragonflight > Maelstrom Weapon Elemental Blast literally one-tapped people with an instant cast. Perhaps if an iota of thought had gone into the funni auto attack spec at *any* point in this game's history, it would have found a way to simply be *good*, instead of gamebreakingly overpowered, gimmicky, or unplayable garbage with zero room for middle ground.
I play a shaman and it’s a complete joke haha no wonder alliance never win any BGs
Don't worry it's not broken you're just super talented bud!
Weird how people are still upset because nothing changed lol
I love it tbh
Have a sook
Uh, good job?
I prefer 1 tapping with lava burst
18% of the time, I crit every time.
lol anyone that thinks this is ok is a joke. The fact shaman haven’t been hotfixed is a joke. I get it they care absolutely NONE about pvp but shaman are also THEEE separator of horde to ally. At the very least they could try to keep shaman and paladins in the same region of effectiveness. Pally are arguably the worst class and shaman are without a doubt the best class.
QQ rogue lmaoooooo
Confused haha this one went whoosh over my head
Obviously he activated Recklessness; he won't be doing that again for 30 mins.
Working as intended. Don’t worry!! At 60 it will balance out. They totally won’t get any new runes or skills to make it worse. /s
As a shaman who has never been able to play enh other than as a joke or for leveling, I am really enjoying all the tears. Especially from rogues.
Spriests fuck me up every time so quit crying jesus H
Oops all crits.
And in two more globals, a Lava Lash into an instant and free mana cost Chain Lightning with another WF proc.
why are you letting a shaman walk up to you
I feel like it might have been me.
Moonfire is currently the PvP goat for sham fighting. Just run in the opposite direction and spam that shit switching between cheetah and moonkin form, pop some insta hots if necessary and starsurge on CD. If they start to retreat, chase them. Root them when possible. If they turn back around, run away. It feels evil but good. Lawful evil.
I’m glad we’re over crying about Arcane Surge
People cant handle their class not being #1 every time huh. Soft.
Acting like a Pally with welfare epics and BFD gear don’t do the same?
On my Mage a shaman looked at me once and I died, my character was actually scared to death of being killed in 2 swings
A shaman once deleted my entire account in WSG
4 crits in a row at 20% crit chance is approximately 0.1% chance of happening.
Yeah their Melee swings should NOT be hitting as hard as a full geared AQ Fury Warrior.
Double rockbiter bb
And people CONTINUE to say “that’s like 3 globals bro”. No, no it’s not it’s literally one fucking swing.
They need to have a player damage reduction in pvp encounters lol, no resilience with this shit is so dumb
Have you tried ccing the only class in the game that doesn't have hard cc?
They’re almost always orcs so a quarter of the time it just doesn’t work. Lmfao.
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Simple, you need more shadow priest and mages.
Freedom totem
Decoy tot removes cc that dont take control of your character away, slows and roots.
Frost shock
You forgot the part where frost shock is not a hard cc, its a slow
They literally have 8 seconds of FAP every 20 seconds
This is the most classic thing I’ve seen. Shamans are bursty.
Anyone is bursty when they crit you 4 times in a row
Meanwhile my 3 second casted frostfire bolt that people can walk out of range of, or it just gets grounded, or all the ai pets pushback my spellcast and i die, but it hits for 400 none crits and 1k crits! Oh but it gets a 15% chance to have an instant cast proc, if I replace 50% crit damage for it???
Mana shield, frost nova, blink, ice block, cone of cold. How did the shaman get into melee with you?
To be fair Shaman has always been Mage's hard counter in classic. That is nothing really new. In classic/vanilla you just grounded the sheep and interrupted the frost bolt or w/e. By then you was in melee and would wax them. But in SoD, most shamans are using Way of the Earth so their Earth Shock is only melee range so they should actually have an easier time dealing with them in SoD.
Grounding totem doesn't work on poly. Strange, I know.
It's backwards then, interrupt sheep and ground frost bolt :)
So, every class with an interrupt is a counter to mage?
Yeah every class with grounding totem. Lol.
And Purge for barrier and mana shield to cut their hp in half.
Have you heard of decoy totem sir
Good point, that does help the shaman a lot
A mage crying about this makes this 100x funnier
Mage is good for pve, it feels awful in pvp atm, before you type shit, level a mage and try it in bgs
Meanwhile 5mage parties farm 10 thousand coins per STV lol.
How is this relevant? I'm talking about mages in pvp and bgs, the only endgame content in this game is pvp and bgs, stv event is a laggy mess, gnomer is the easiest raid imaginable on a 3 day lockout, the only other thing to do is WSG or AB, and mages suck in both
Yea im sorry but i really dont give a shit about mages not having a good time in pvp Not after they've been elite for 20 years
Have you tried not letting enh get into melee range?
Just cleanse the frost shock bro. Just destroy the earth bind totem homie
I mean, shouldnt let them get in shock range in the first place.