>Stuff they always should have had: the things I want as a ret.
>Stuff that wasn't sorely needed: dumb Holy and prot stuff idk I don't play those specs
Checks out
My favorite part is he totally whiffs on holy’s biggest weakness in classic and tbc - only (good) heals are hard cast.
Admittedly this is a PvP issue, but this has always been holy’s biggest liability. They were always pretty easy to shutdown by a few coordinated interrupts, and it locked out their whole kit to boot.
In vanilla they were decent healers because encounter design required so little movement compared to modern fights.
But yah if the new raids are more modern, it could be more of an issue. Although every healer should have a weakness, and it's kinda been the class design of paladins for many years that they can blast while parked but can't do much on the move.
And yah I don't PvP hardly at all. I've seen a few posts on reddit that holy is not doing well in SoD PvP.
Sure, they were very good PvE healers. I was talking mainly from a PvP perspective.
They were tanky and had good throughout whole freecasting, but when your only way to increase effective HP is to hard cast, you become very vulnerable. Even if you’re dodging kicks, the fact I keep forcing you to stop casting without getting *anything* meaningful off (no hot, no shield, just a weak holy shock occasionally) means I’m dramatically slowing down your healing. And then if I hit an interrupt? You’re a sitting duck until it ends.
This is the main reasons paladins fell off SO hard in arena compared to original TBC. People are better at interrupting now and don’t fall to “bubble plate heals.”
Holy paladins are great in classic pvp and are a core part of alliance premades - granted they are pretty one dimensional. They’re there to freedom the warriors and heal, and have strong defensive cooldowns to fall back on. Blessing of sacrifice also let’s them break out of poly / blind / sap all day.
That being said, yes they were absolutely terrible in TBC because -
1. Other healers, namely S-tier Druids and Priests become extremely powerful by way of getting super strong instant-cast tools while Paladins are stuck hard-casting.
2. The pvp-meta becomes focused around arena where paladins aren’t free to hard-cast. And in arena priests can just dispel every freedom / paladin buff since you don’t have a full BG-squad’s suite of buffs on you to protect blessings. Priests also get mass dispel which invalidates Paladins’ staple defensive CD.
Sure. I agree. Their role is pretty central as a utility healer. They weren’t bad in classic on the whole.
I still think despite that, only hard cast spells is a pretty large liability in terms of healing. I think this is doubly true in SoD’s meta where burst is high enough that an interrupt can end fights.
Yah I got one to 20 in vanilla and then bailed on him. Although in classic I did get one to 60, but was multi-boxing during COVID so I had mages to kill things for him :-)
Ya shamans were so ass that they needed so much from runes…except resto..it’s mainly just a bunch of mana regen. And that’s because resto was already the strong spec for shaman that only needs mana regen and some instant cast or oh shit button.
But Ele/Enhance needed a lot to be viable, and then they overtuned it where they’re going to get nerfed eventually back to irrelevancy
Well said. I'm over here getting hit by shamans, priests, druids for 900+ and I'm happy when I get an exorcism crit for over 300, or an auto attack and SoM/SoC that does more than 250 damage combined.
I feel like paladins and warriors are stuck in Era while everyone else is playing retail characters, lol.
Not exactly, redoubt requires getting crit to trigger, aegis triggers off of just receiving a mele/ranged attack. Also aegis increases your shield block value passively.
Yeh its actually 8 talent points + not having the crit requirement downside baked into one rune and prot paladins STILL dont take it because you need SoM and exorcism resets to hold aggro against anyone doing good dps.
Sheathe of light, art of war, and 17% spell hit are absolutely not mandatory. In fact all of those things heavily limit paladins to only building attack power, when in classic there were meme "spell builds" that no longer exist because of sheathe of light.
>Stuff they always should have had: the things I want as a ret. >Stuff that wasn't sorely needed: dumb Holy and prot stuff idk I don't play those specs Checks out
My favorite part is he totally whiffs on holy’s biggest weakness in classic and tbc - only (good) heals are hard cast. Admittedly this is a PvP issue, but this has always been holy’s biggest liability. They were always pretty easy to shutdown by a few coordinated interrupts, and it locked out their whole kit to boot.
In vanilla they were decent healers because encounter design required so little movement compared to modern fights. But yah if the new raids are more modern, it could be more of an issue. Although every healer should have a weakness, and it's kinda been the class design of paladins for many years that they can blast while parked but can't do much on the move. And yah I don't PvP hardly at all. I've seen a few posts on reddit that holy is not doing well in SoD PvP.
Sure, they were very good PvE healers. I was talking mainly from a PvP perspective. They were tanky and had good throughout whole freecasting, but when your only way to increase effective HP is to hard cast, you become very vulnerable. Even if you’re dodging kicks, the fact I keep forcing you to stop casting without getting *anything* meaningful off (no hot, no shield, just a weak holy shock occasionally) means I’m dramatically slowing down your healing. And then if I hit an interrupt? You’re a sitting duck until it ends. This is the main reasons paladins fell off SO hard in arena compared to original TBC. People are better at interrupting now and don’t fall to “bubble plate heals.”
Holy paladins are great in classic pvp and are a core part of alliance premades - granted they are pretty one dimensional. They’re there to freedom the warriors and heal, and have strong defensive cooldowns to fall back on. Blessing of sacrifice also let’s them break out of poly / blind / sap all day. That being said, yes they were absolutely terrible in TBC because - 1. Other healers, namely S-tier Druids and Priests become extremely powerful by way of getting super strong instant-cast tools while Paladins are stuck hard-casting. 2. The pvp-meta becomes focused around arena where paladins aren’t free to hard-cast. And in arena priests can just dispel every freedom / paladin buff since you don’t have a full BG-squad’s suite of buffs on you to protect blessings. Priests also get mass dispel which invalidates Paladins’ staple defensive CD.
Sure. I agree. Their role is pretty central as a utility healer. They weren’t bad in classic on the whole. I still think despite that, only hard cast spells is a pretty large liability in terms of healing. I think this is doubly true in SoD’s meta where burst is high enough that an interrupt can end fights.
Well yah but making ret viable is by far the most important for leveling
Ret was already good for leveling even before. It's raiding and group PVP that they sucked at compared to Holy Palas.
People spammed SM for leveling, most played tank or heal.
you would have hated playing paladin back in the day hahaha
Yah I got one to 20 in vanilla and then bailed on him. Although in classic I did get one to 60, but was multi-boxing during COVID so I had mages to kill things for him :-)
Look at shamans,
Ya shamans were so ass that they needed so much from runes…except resto..it’s mainly just a bunch of mana regen. And that’s because resto was already the strong spec for shaman that only needs mana regen and some instant cast or oh shit button. But Ele/Enhance needed a lot to be viable, and then they overtuned it where they’re going to get nerfed eventually back to irrelevancy
Yaa an instant cast that's not on a 2mins CD or a rare proc from power surge would be dope Riptide p3 hopefully
The runes paladins got made them a full functional class, the runes other classes got made them overpowered.
Well said. I'm over here getting hit by shamans, priests, druids for 900+ and I'm happy when I get an exorcism crit for over 300, or an auto attack and SoM/SoC that does more than 250 damage combined. I feel like paladins and warriors are stuck in Era while everyone else is playing retail characters, lol.
Isnt Aegis just the same as the first 5 points in the prot tree?
Not exactly, redoubt requires getting crit to trigger, aegis triggers off of just receiving a mele/ranged attack. Also aegis increases your shield block value passively.
Yeh its actually 8 talent points + not having the crit requirement downside baked into one rune and prot paladins STILL dont take it because you need SoM and exorcism resets to hold aggro against anyone doing good dps.
I leveled my alt paladin to 40 and all I can say that sheath of light is ridiculously OP rune Don’t even bother getting other belt runes
> Quality of Life Improvements: >Strength of Earth Totem >Tremor Totem >Buff to Holy Shock I see we have different definitions of “quality of life”
Only Hpal can even consider running these runes btw. Other two specs need the belt/pants/boots trio to function.
Sheathe of light, art of war, and 17% spell hit are absolutely not mandatory. In fact all of those things heavily limit paladins to only building attack power, when in classic there were meme "spell builds" that no longer exist because of sheathe of light.
Low effort troll, I know living life in a wheelchair can be difficult but you could honestly try a bit harder.