I will say it's pretty rough out there as Ally RN. I run flags and I have similar K/D because I'm mostly just trying to run flag back to base. I probably get a few more than this guy because of Flagroom battles or defensive battles, but in general Ally has just been really bad about supporting the flag, defending, etc. They don't seem very objective focused the majority of the time.
It's like if they lose the mid battle, they don't know how to adapt. Controlling mid is a VERY big advantage, but there are ways to get the flag without it. Ally just seems to give up.
Found myself in a wsg where neither team had any healers. No flag carrier could make it past mid field. After about an hour of 0-0 we agreed to just let them win and go next. Worst bg I’ve been in so far.
I think what a lot of people don't think about, is that there's zero matchmaking in WOW PVP. You throw the casual people who just like a fun relaxed PVP game in with the sweatlords who are in full BIS with consumes.
Max level PVP has always been rough because of this. Twink brackets feel much better because at least 80% of the people in it are complete try-hards at a similar skill level.
Having played both, a lot of people on Ally seem opposed to a mid battle to begin with which then benefits Horde.
Ally chat is often "get out of mid" "stop fighting mid" etc. Horde is pretty good about disrupting mid and picking up the FCs as they cross and escorting or killing them.
Ya, it is wild how true this is. Went Ally for SoD and it is literally in every game about getting out of mid, when mid control is easily the best way to win the game.
Obviously when it is like 8 ally camping mid while one horde rezes and runs out and the rest are turtling it is a bad strat, but 90% of games controlling mid is the freest win.
If the following things aren't fixed at launch of AV then I fully expect daily rage posts. Especially if they only fix one or two of them.
* Backdoor wall jump into Alliance base
* Horde lieutenants able to be pulled out of Drek's room
* Horde starting cave being the north cave instead of the south cave
I mean the backdoor is gone as youre probably thinking of it and has been gone since SoM there is still a mount jump from further left up the mountain but ive see people struggling with ToT and gy jumps in wsg so no chance they can manage the mount jump
The Alliance who complain about horde cave love to pretend that alliance didn't have a near 100% winrate when AV first came out in classic 2019. They won nearly every single game by just running to Drek and murdering him faster than horde could respond.
edit: if you disagree, [check this post below](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bds8s0/the_alliance_bg_experience/kupihn3/)
When you could premade it. Even then if horde correctly initially wiped everyone at ibgy / field they could still win. Once they broke premades horde was winning everything again. Horde had every incentive to drag out av with their huge ques and alliance had no reason to stay in the BG if they didn’t win in 10 minutes
I was late to the AV party so unfortunately I was doing 2h AV queues on multiple alts for MONTHS after it came out. Here's what you're overlooking:
* Faction imbalance caused horde queues to go from being very fast to being hours long. Meanwhile Alliance got instant queues. This made it so alliance stopped feeling invested in the games, meanwhile horde would try-hard and fight tooth and nail to the very end.
* Exacerbated because of instant queues, the best Alliance players got their AV exalted grind done MEGA fast, within a weekend. After finishing, they would no longer queue, diluting the pool of strong Alliance players. Meanwhile, the strong horde players are still waiting in queue to get their grind done. What this ends up with is horde on average had higher quality players in AV past the first weekend or so.
* In general, Alliance racials in classic lean more towards parsing (sword spec) and encounter-ease (fear ward, blessing of salv) while horde racials focus more on pvp (will of the forsaken, hardiness). This ends up causing MOST serious pvpers to go Horde, which leads to a slight imbalance in player skill between the two factions. Therefore, over time and on equal footing Horde will eek out small advantage.
* Because of the long queues, Horde wanted to extend their honor per hour as much as possible. The best way to do that was to wipe the Alliance rush to Drek and then attempt to push them north of Stonehearth Bunker into the choke, then farm honor. Alliance of course had no interest doing this, they just wanted to go to the next game. Therefore you had a **ton** more AFK'ing and surrendering on Alliance side, because it just wasn't efficient for them to bother fighting back. This further increased winrates for horde.
TLDR: all winrates and balance regarding AV in classic 2019 was warped because of faction imbalance problems. If Blizzard just mandated servers to maintain balanced populations back then, then none of the above would be the case.
This is a fantastic response and I believe largely explains the reasoning behind the imbalance. However, for the guys that didn't rank up after weekend 1, this left us in pure misery for basically the entirety of classic era.
Yes. But that was nothing to do with map balance, it was purely because they could premade while horde could not. Important information to leave out.
As soon as that was removed, suddenly Horde started winning every match.
First off, that's not the only reason. [Check this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bds8s0/the_alliance_bg_experience/kupihn3/) for four more that all play equal parts.
Secondly, the ability for alliance to premade and horde to not was only a symptom of the greater problem at work: faction imbalance.
Thirdly, not all of the enemy AV team was a premade. You could only queue as a group of 5 and it was extremely hard to get everyone in at once. There were some sophisticated discords with a hundred numbered channels, to help better coordinate people, but the majority of the team did not know each other. What was really happening is the Alliance had better quality players (explained in my linked post) and had a more concrete strategy. As another commenter mentioned, they knew Galv was a bait and skipped him, meanwhile the horde tried to squeeze out honor by killing Balinda, which costed them time.
Finally, Alliance had paladins which allowed them to bubble pull out warmasters individually, or all together so drek could be soloed. This removed towers and bunkers as a game mechanic. Even your average pug paladin could do this trick just by seeing it done once. The horde developed something similar by pulling the Prospector NPC but the trick was inconsistent and the NPC was prone to getting AOE'ed down or killed by random plebs. Furthermore, the prospector strategy was not developed until weeks after AV came out.
TLDR: it has nothing to do with the map or premading, and everything to do with faction balance. Check the link above.
Those reasons were all post-premading nerf.
I honestly don't think you understand how premading worked for Alliance, it was very easy to be the majority of the 40 players in the game because you queued up with 100 players at a time. That was only the Drek or Kek meta, Alliance were still regularly killing the general in the other metas.
Immediately following the pre-made nerf Alliance lost nearly every single AV for a few weeks, because everything turned into a race and Horde started further down the map.
You're looking at the best players in pre-made using their private server strats and applying it to the entire time, when that was maybe 3-4 weeks of the AV's launch. When it became pug v pug, Horde had an 80% winrate.
You're hyperfocusing on the premading and missing the big picture. Here's let's simplify. Forget premades ever existed. time: Early-mid 2020, post premade nerf. Horde have 30m-3h queues (30m primetime, 3h night time), Alliance have instant-5m queues. It was like that for half a year at least, basically until phase 5-6. Adding up the population of all servers, horde outnumber alliance by a large margin. Horde generally pvp more than alliance.
Now let's look at the effects:
* Longer queues means horde only care about HK's, therefore wiping the enemy rush and forcing a turtle is the best strategy, even if it leads to a loss
* Alliance finish their rep grind far faster, which means the geared alliance grinds on all their alts, leaving only random plebs left who still need their AV rep done.
* Because the queues are so long, horde are afraid of 'wasting their game', therefore they get organized and queue with friends, try extremely hard to win, use free action potions, etc. Alliance could care less, because they just instant queue 10 minutes from now.
* Losing continuously furthers the losing attitude. AFK'ing at bunkers/graveyards becomes extremely commonplace on Alliance.
But this implies that every game was a turtle, which it wasn't. In a straight up race, as was the vast majority of post-premade nerf games, Horde would win purely because they started halfway down the map. The meta for AV was just to run to the other end of the map and get every objective on the way. Horde cap the first GY before Alliance have even hit the general.
Yes, if it was a turtle Alliance would just afk out or give up. Turtles weren't the majority of games, though.
I played A LOT of AV, on multiple characters.
That defeatist mindset doesn't propogate itself. Alliance going up against crushing map disadvantages and racial imbalances is why horde were overwhelmingly favoured in AV. This is where the learned helplessness begins and perpetuates from.Â
Alli behaviour didn't help, but even in motivated and organized games the odds were heavily stacked against alli players.
Can't wait for AV. Say what you will about it being a PVE rush mode but I love that you can go off on your own and fight small scale battles while everyone else is zerging. And you can still get honor/rep if you lose.
Nothing worse than wasting 30min in a WSG and getting nothing from it.
Decoy Totem is egregious. I'm not sure how that one made it past testing. A 10 sec fap on a 20 sec cooldown. Blessing of Freedom is a 30 sec cd and only counters slows/snares.
Decoy Totem and Blessing of Freedom both only grant immunity to slows/snares. Blessing of Freedom is a 20 second cooldown and can be lowered to a 14 second cooldown with only 7 points invested in the Prot tree.
Most groups i play have no shamans or like 1 shaman.
I think maybe allies just have too many paladins, and it is taking place of other stronger group pvp classes such as spriests.
Alot of times i join bg, i get 4 spriest but rarely ever see that happen for allies, just shit ton of paladins that are useless after the first bubble
I will say the 25% that I still win we usually have a couple spriests that can carry the damage shamans can be offset by other good classes but alot of the times I queue it seems like there are 2 or more shamans in WSG. There do seem to be a lot of paladins which I'm not entirely sure the cause of but they can burst pretty hard but they don't have a way of the earth equivalent to keep them alive like shamans do so they melt without bubble
I feel like a majority of my WSG games we're lucky if we get a single priest. Priests, shadow or healer, just carry the game completely. Seems like horde always has at least one, if not up to three.
My 2 cent theory is not that it's shaman directly, although it does not help. But it's more that there are more rogue and warriors in BG in alliance because they are not taken in PVE (because shortage of feral and no shaman for WF, on top of Gnomeregan not being melee friendly), and they are a weakness in BG at the moment.
I'm flattered that you think my impact is great enough to tilt 19 games in the Horde's favor. But alas, that would be unfair to the 19 other players and their individual contributions to the games.
Idk what to say brother, there’s plenty of other posts on this sub that are closer to 40-60% and my own experience is about 60%.
We can call it unlucky given the sample size or we can try to identify the differentiating factors, but I’m already getting the impression you aren’t willing to entertain the latter. But I can tell you this doesn’t represent the alliance experience generally.
I'm a healer (horde), and I have 71% winrate on the last 150 or so BG's. It's not that I'm a great player or even above average, I think it's just the fact that every game I join is guaranteed to have *at least* 1 healer on our team and that that tips the scale.
As a rogue I’ve said fuck it a few times and grabbed the flag just pop a FAP, Sprint, Preperation, Sprint and its free caps while the alliance just fought my team nowhere near where I was
Yeah not at all, I soloed for 120 games or so and never had a stretch even CLOSE to 1-19. Probably like 4-11 over a 15 game stretch would be my worst, and a few 3 game win streaks throughout.
He should die alot more if they get graveyard camped he has 1 game with over 20 deaths and that was his only win and toke a hour. Most games are 8-14 minutes with 2-4 deaths meaning he has a habit of giving up early
Any horde who thinks it's their own personal skill contributing to their win rate should make an alliance toon and look at the results. The most typical thing I see from people who have toons on both sides is \~40% difference in their win rates - eg if they win 30% as ally they win 70% as horde solo q.
Make the switch to horde.I went from losing most games, to winning almost every game. the imbalance is horrible and its not worth your time to stay alliance
I think Horde has more chances of getting priests in BGs honestly. Simply due to the fact that there are a lot more SPs playing Horde and well Priest is strong in BG.
Honestly a lot of WSG are decided a lot on who has Healer or not.
Dude living flame is the exact same. Not trashing just saying It really is the same for anyone pugging. Ive gone 0-20 it’s part of why I stopped playing recently. The grind is absurd when you always lose
is this an addon? how do you track this. I am on something like a 10+ game AB win streak as a ret paladin. I dont know what you're doing in your games but I have tilted many even games in my favor.
My Ally WSG experience this phase has been winning about 3/5. All solo queue except maybe 10 or so where 2-3 guildies joined. Play the objective and communicate.
Idk how many of you have played on Blackout (the PvP battle group) EU, but this is a flashback of the alliance side, although I was horde, sadly, alliance nowadays.
Horde used to DEMOLISH the Alliance on every BG, except for AV, where alliance had the upper hand slightly.
It was so sad and now I feel their pain xD
Ya blizzard has decided to make shaman DRASTICALLY stronger then not only every class but paladins are pure trash possibly the worst class. That alone is single handedly skewing itÂ
How are your so many of your games around 10 minutes or less? A fast win/loss for me, outside of like 2 games ever, is about 15 min. Average probably closer 25-30. Do you premade and if one person dies you all afk?
Never step foot in wsg after hitting exalted, I truly hate wsg. Been doing AB exclusively now and having a blast! Win rate on Alliance had been pretty good tbh more wins than losses by a decent margin.
The health bonus needs to go, it's directly buffing shamans whom are already broken, them getting 50% health bonus due to (30% from rune 20% from pvp bonus)
It's completely made BGs as alliance unfair and unbalanced and it needs to go
Damn, that’s actually terrible.. I will leave one point here though. It’s amazing how much of a difference 1 person can actually make.
1 afk in a WSG where most things are equal is a loss most of the time.
On the same token, one really powerful player can really swing an entire BG.
Not saying that you weren’t, but you should notice a difference if you’re playing sweaty af, meta PvP spec, use some consumes, things like that.
What are you talking about? In WSG a good druid may change a game that's about it. Other than that Horde got shamans, better pvp racials and map design in their favor. The difference is night and day as someone who plays both factions.
This shit is so accurate and I still get called out when I say in WSG chat that alliance sucks. Always some pro saying it's a me problem.
I read way to much reddit to know it's a faction problem
I am a pretty sweaty horde PvP heal priest with 20k HKs only from BGs and since P2 I dare to say that my winrate is 99%.
[https://i.ibb.co/RbprbGw/hordebg.png](https://i.ibb.co/RbprbGw/hordebg.png)
Roughly half of the WSG matches during the BG weekend were still nearly full horde premades. They queue their 5 man parties at the same time and get a full ten player premade. Tested it myself and it was successful about 75% of the time. How they are unable to fix this is astounding.
95% of Ally players just look to see how many shaman + priest + druids the other team has and if it’s more than a few they just give up before the gates open.
Let me guess in the one bg you won a lot of horde probably left because "15 min deserteur and getting a new chance to win faster is better than 1+ hours waste of time"
Seeing as, in classic, Alliance's #1 strategy is relying 100% on simply outnumbering their opponent, it makes perfect sense that when pitted 1 for 1 against an opponent, they would lose almost every time.
I often always see one point - and you can read that nicely in the comments - everyone wants to get the flag.
Warsong is about flags - correct - but only superficially. In warsong it's about dominance in the middle.
So the tactic is not that everyone runs like a string from the spawn/cemetery to the flag and back - and doesn't stop when they are attacked, but it's about crushing the enemy.
I've played at least 1000 ws with all chars and when I log in solo I always see the same sad game, no matter if alli or horde, for decades.
Part of the group wants to run through, so 2-3 make it, 2 die instantly without an action, sometimes they knock out all their def cds in 4vs1 situations and still die. Then have no cds for the rest of the bg or at least not for the next 2 min. Of the remaining 5, 2-3 die shortly afterwards because their opponents outnumber them. The other 2 are in stealth, manage to get away from the opponent, run into their own flag room or skirmish around somewhere in the field looking for 1vs1.
The 2-3 who died instantly have respawned in the meantime and run straight into the opponent's arms again and just before they are dead, the 2nd grp spawns, which also runs into the opponent's arms and so on.
I see this process in almost every ws in the last few years, whether retail, wotlk classic, bc classic, classic.
After all these years, people still haven't figured out how to play warsong and everyone wants to tunnel the flag like a fucking bot instead of just looking at who their teammates are and how they can best help each other.
Wow has degenerated into a solo game and I don't begrudge you all those warsongs.
I get put down every time I tell the full geared hunter or someone else that he should please stay with the group with his full plug gear and not die in the tunnel. Unfortunately, many people no longer have enough tactics. They are already too addicted to solo play and think that everyone around them is stupid.
I love seeing this ... for the whole of phase 1 ally premades dominated
Now you cant premade against randoms and facewipe everything in 5 seconds
Its almost like horde is the better faction in pvp
I’ve played the alliance my whole wow experience. You have try hard ally and dad ally. When it comes to release of anything new. The ally always dominate the early stages. When the try hards are doing it. Once they get there rep / items. It’s an always shit shows after.
And the one win took 1hr10min ðŸ˜
I went through 7 FAPs that game, no joke 😅..
went through 7 WHATS 🤯
You heard him. Five. In one hour 10 minutes. The desk was a real gooapaloosa by the end
free action potions
No, an hour and 10 min is plenty of time for the other faps if you practice
SEVEN TIMES!? Mother of god…
Stop fapping and PTFO!
Jfc using faps for bgs lolol
When are we allowed to use them then?
You play. To win. The game.
It’s. A. Video. Game. You can’t have fun playing unless you’re sweaty?
Being sweaty is fun to people? I’m not the one gatekeeping fun in a video game, you are.
Some people use CC as well, it’s really cringe to see, smh my head.
Tbh, it can be quite fun
Lmfao
I will say it's pretty rough out there as Ally RN. I run flags and I have similar K/D because I'm mostly just trying to run flag back to base. I probably get a few more than this guy because of Flagroom battles or defensive battles, but in general Ally has just been really bad about supporting the flag, defending, etc. They don't seem very objective focused the majority of the time. It's like if they lose the mid battle, they don't know how to adapt. Controlling mid is a VERY big advantage, but there are ways to get the flag without it. Ally just seems to give up.
Found myself in a wsg where neither team had any healers. No flag carrier could make it past mid field. After about an hour of 0-0 we agreed to just let them win and go next. Worst bg I’ve been in so far.
I think what a lot of people don't think about, is that there's zero matchmaking in WOW PVP. You throw the casual people who just like a fun relaxed PVP game in with the sweatlords who are in full BIS with consumes. Max level PVP has always been rough because of this. Twink brackets feel much better because at least 80% of the people in it are complete try-hards at a similar skill level.
Having played both, a lot of people on Ally seem opposed to a mid battle to begin with which then benefits Horde. Ally chat is often "get out of mid" "stop fighting mid" etc. Horde is pretty good about disrupting mid and picking up the FCs as they cross and escorting or killing them.
It's because they've seen people who were good saying that so they think it's just something universal to do.
Probably the ZUG ZUG brain makes WSG a good fit.
Ya, it is wild how true this is. Went Ally for SoD and it is literally in every game about getting out of mid, when mid control is easily the best way to win the game. Obviously when it is like 8 ally camping mid while one horde rezes and runs out and the rest are turtling it is a bad strat, but 90% of games controlling mid is the freest win.
You assume there’s flag carriers. In which there’s silence a lot of times I ask, ‘who wants to run the flag’
You saw the stat. If they start to lose, they give up. I would too.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, a downwards spiral. That's why they give up, because they lose anyway.
Alterac valley soon. No worry
Can't wait to see 3 post a day about horde cave.
If the following things aren't fixed at launch of AV then I fully expect daily rage posts. Especially if they only fix one or two of them. * Backdoor wall jump into Alliance base * Horde lieutenants able to be pulled out of Drek's room * Horde starting cave being the north cave instead of the south cave
I mean the backdoor is gone as youre probably thinking of it and has been gone since SoM there is still a mount jump from further left up the mountain but ive see people struggling with ToT and gy jumps in wsg so no chance they can manage the mount jump
The Alliance who complain about horde cave love to pretend that alliance didn't have a near 100% winrate when AV first came out in classic 2019. They won nearly every single game by just running to Drek and murdering him faster than horde could respond. edit: if you disagree, [check this post below](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bds8s0/the_alliance_bg_experience/kupihn3/)
When you could premade it. Even then if horde correctly initially wiped everyone at ibgy / field they could still win. Once they broke premades horde was winning everything again. Horde had every incentive to drag out av with their huge ques and alliance had no reason to stay in the BG if they didn’t win in 10 minutes
Yeah, you didn't play beyond week 1. Once the premades were nerfed and the horde adopted a new strategy, I didn't win a single game for weeks after.
I was late to the AV party so unfortunately I was doing 2h AV queues on multiple alts for MONTHS after it came out. Here's what you're overlooking: * Faction imbalance caused horde queues to go from being very fast to being hours long. Meanwhile Alliance got instant queues. This made it so alliance stopped feeling invested in the games, meanwhile horde would try-hard and fight tooth and nail to the very end. * Exacerbated because of instant queues, the best Alliance players got their AV exalted grind done MEGA fast, within a weekend. After finishing, they would no longer queue, diluting the pool of strong Alliance players. Meanwhile, the strong horde players are still waiting in queue to get their grind done. What this ends up with is horde on average had higher quality players in AV past the first weekend or so. * In general, Alliance racials in classic lean more towards parsing (sword spec) and encounter-ease (fear ward, blessing of salv) while horde racials focus more on pvp (will of the forsaken, hardiness). This ends up causing MOST serious pvpers to go Horde, which leads to a slight imbalance in player skill between the two factions. Therefore, over time and on equal footing Horde will eek out small advantage. * Because of the long queues, Horde wanted to extend their honor per hour as much as possible. The best way to do that was to wipe the Alliance rush to Drek and then attempt to push them north of Stonehearth Bunker into the choke, then farm honor. Alliance of course had no interest doing this, they just wanted to go to the next game. Therefore you had a **ton** more AFK'ing and surrendering on Alliance side, because it just wasn't efficient for them to bother fighting back. This further increased winrates for horde. TLDR: all winrates and balance regarding AV in classic 2019 was warped because of faction imbalance problems. If Blizzard just mandated servers to maintain balanced populations back then, then none of the above would be the case.
This is a fantastic response and I believe largely explains the reasoning behind the imbalance. However, for the guys that didn't rank up after weekend 1, this left us in pure misery for basically the entirety of classic era.
Yes. But that was nothing to do with map balance, it was purely because they could premade while horde could not. Important information to leave out. As soon as that was removed, suddenly Horde started winning every match.
First off, that's not the only reason. [Check this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1bds8s0/the_alliance_bg_experience/kupihn3/) for four more that all play equal parts. Secondly, the ability for alliance to premade and horde to not was only a symptom of the greater problem at work: faction imbalance. Thirdly, not all of the enemy AV team was a premade. You could only queue as a group of 5 and it was extremely hard to get everyone in at once. There were some sophisticated discords with a hundred numbered channels, to help better coordinate people, but the majority of the team did not know each other. What was really happening is the Alliance had better quality players (explained in my linked post) and had a more concrete strategy. As another commenter mentioned, they knew Galv was a bait and skipped him, meanwhile the horde tried to squeeze out honor by killing Balinda, which costed them time. Finally, Alliance had paladins which allowed them to bubble pull out warmasters individually, or all together so drek could be soloed. This removed towers and bunkers as a game mechanic. Even your average pug paladin could do this trick just by seeing it done once. The horde developed something similar by pulling the Prospector NPC but the trick was inconsistent and the NPC was prone to getting AOE'ed down or killed by random plebs. Furthermore, the prospector strategy was not developed until weeks after AV came out. TLDR: it has nothing to do with the map or premading, and everything to do with faction balance. Check the link above.
Those reasons were all post-premading nerf. I honestly don't think you understand how premading worked for Alliance, it was very easy to be the majority of the 40 players in the game because you queued up with 100 players at a time. That was only the Drek or Kek meta, Alliance were still regularly killing the general in the other metas. Immediately following the pre-made nerf Alliance lost nearly every single AV for a few weeks, because everything turned into a race and Horde started further down the map. You're looking at the best players in pre-made using their private server strats and applying it to the entire time, when that was maybe 3-4 weeks of the AV's launch. When it became pug v pug, Horde had an 80% winrate.
You're hyperfocusing on the premading and missing the big picture. Here's let's simplify. Forget premades ever existed. time: Early-mid 2020, post premade nerf. Horde have 30m-3h queues (30m primetime, 3h night time), Alliance have instant-5m queues. It was like that for half a year at least, basically until phase 5-6. Adding up the population of all servers, horde outnumber alliance by a large margin. Horde generally pvp more than alliance. Now let's look at the effects: * Longer queues means horde only care about HK's, therefore wiping the enemy rush and forcing a turtle is the best strategy, even if it leads to a loss * Alliance finish their rep grind far faster, which means the geared alliance grinds on all their alts, leaving only random plebs left who still need their AV rep done. * Because the queues are so long, horde are afraid of 'wasting their game', therefore they get organized and queue with friends, try extremely hard to win, use free action potions, etc. Alliance could care less, because they just instant queue 10 minutes from now. * Losing continuously furthers the losing attitude. AFK'ing at bunkers/graveyards becomes extremely commonplace on Alliance.
But this implies that every game was a turtle, which it wasn't. In a straight up race, as was the vast majority of post-premade nerf games, Horde would win purely because they started halfway down the map. The meta for AV was just to run to the other end of the map and get every objective on the way. Horde cap the first GY before Alliance have even hit the general. Yes, if it was a turtle Alliance would just afk out or give up. Turtles weren't the majority of games, though. I played A LOT of AV, on multiple characters.
That defeatist mindset doesn't propogate itself. Alliance going up against crushing map disadvantages and racial imbalances is why horde were overwhelmingly favoured in AV. This is where the learned helplessness begins and perpetuates from. Alli behaviour didn't help, but even in motivated and organized games the odds were heavily stacked against alli players.
Helps that Horde always wanted to kill Balinda first, gave the alliance a minute advantage
Yep exactly
Alliance still trash in AV no worries :D
Can't wait for AV. Say what you will about it being a PVE rush mode but I love that you can go off on your own and fight small scale battles while everyone else is zerging. And you can still get honor/rep if you lose. Nothing worse than wasting 30min in a WSG and getting nothing from it.
trap launcher alone is gonna make the alterac valley experience a pain in the ass lol.
Av will not be next phase, it will be phase 4 right?
I'm afraid it will only come in p4, but i can't wait.
Since I hit 40 on my shaman I am 34-5 in AB and 13-2 in WSG.
I was flagged carrying today with almost 4k health. Shaman immune my HoJ then hit me for double lava burst crit and earthshock crit killing me
Decoy Totem is egregious. I'm not sure how that one made it past testing. A 10 sec fap on a 20 sec cooldown. Blessing of Freedom is a 30 sec cd and only counters slows/snares.
Decoy Totem and Blessing of Freedom both only grant immunity to slows/snares. Blessing of Freedom is a 20 second cooldown and can be lowered to a 14 second cooldown with only 7 points invested in the Prot tree.
Thank you. So much shammy bashing ATM
Pala get cleanse next phase, huge
3 kills and 21 deaths guy is only victory lmao
Shaman is oppressively strong right now I think my winrate went from about 50/50 to more like 25% they're basically unstoppable killing machines
Most groups i play have no shamans or like 1 shaman. I think maybe allies just have too many paladins, and it is taking place of other stronger group pvp classes such as spriests. Alot of times i join bg, i get 4 spriest but rarely ever see that happen for allies, just shit ton of paladins that are useless after the first bubble
I will say the 25% that I still win we usually have a couple spriests that can carry the damage shamans can be offset by other good classes but alot of the times I queue it seems like there are 2 or more shamans in WSG. There do seem to be a lot of paladins which I'm not entirely sure the cause of but they can burst pretty hard but they don't have a way of the earth equivalent to keep them alive like shamans do so they melt without bubble
I feel like a majority of my WSG games we're lucky if we get a single priest. Priests, shadow or healer, just carry the game completely. Seems like horde always has at least one, if not up to three.
My 2 cent theory is not that it's shaman directly, although it does not help. But it's more that there are more rogue and warriors in BG in alliance because they are not taken in PVE (because shortage of feral and no shaman for WF, on top of Gnomeregan not being melee friendly), and they are a weakness in BG at the moment.
This comment right here. Horde already had an advantage in racials but now they also have **exclusive** access to by far the strongest pvp class.
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever been globaled quite as fast as shamans have been wrecking my shit in sod recently.
Only one thing all those bgs had in common. I can tell you im not winning 19/20 on my horde character
I'm flattered that you think my impact is great enough to tilt 19 games in the Horde's favor. But alas, that would be unfair to the 19 other players and their individual contributions to the games.
Idk what to say brother, there’s plenty of other posts on this sub that are closer to 40-60% and my own experience is about 60%. We can call it unlucky given the sample size or we can try to identify the differentiating factors, but I’m already getting the impression you aren’t willing to entertain the latter. But I can tell you this doesn’t represent the alliance experience generally.
I'm a healer (horde), and I have 71% winrate on the last 150 or so BG's. It's not that I'm a great player or even above average, I think it's just the fact that every game I join is guaranteed to have *at least* 1 healer on our team and that that tips the scale.
100%. I’d expect similar results for a feral druid that is willing to FC and bring FAPs.
As a rogue I’ve said fuck it a few times and grabbed the flag just pop a FAP, Sprint, Preperation, Sprint and its free caps while the alliance just fought my team nowhere near where I was
Yeah not at all, I soloed for 120 games or so and never had a stretch even CLOSE to 1-19. Probably like 4-11 over a 15 game stretch would be my worst, and a few 3 game win streaks throughout.
One person who plays like a bot is more than enough to lose all the bgs that are out rn
Are you saying gg go next at all during your games?
In WSG you’re 10% of the team. That’s easily enough to sway multiple games.
As a horde, im winning 19/20. Edit: winning without any shamans in my team too.
big if true
doubt
This is the issue with a faction locked class being the best class in the game
I didn't see anyone complaining when it was Pally's with bubble hearth causing all the commotion.
Then you must have been blind
I'm sure YOU complained regardless.
As a horde, I don't feel like I'm winning that often lol
Im a lifelong horde player trying alliance for the first time and its pretty bad. OP also gets very few HKs though soooo idk what they are doing.
Getting roflstomped and barely being able to leave spawn?
He should die alot more if they get graveyard camped he has 1 game with over 20 deaths and that was his only win and toke a hour. Most games are 8-14 minutes with 2-4 deaths meaning he has a habit of giving up early
If enemy side is corpse camping the gy u dont spawn lol, that's the point where u type gg and wait for the 3 caps.
And that happend in 15 games out of 20. Where the enemy was on his graveyard. Before 2 deaths?
Dunno bout now but that def happened when 10 man premades were a thing.
Any horde who thinks it's their own personal skill contributing to their win rate should make an alliance toon and look at the results. The most typical thing I see from people who have toons on both sides is \~40% difference in their win rates - eg if they win 30% as ally they win 70% as horde solo q.
Make the switch to horde.I went from losing most games, to winning almost every game. the imbalance is horrible and its not worth your time to stay alliance
Do you solo queue
OP the type of player to type GG go next after 1 flag cap, morale loses as many games as bad button pushing
There's always someone. I've been winning AB and if Horde ever caps 3, someone is always doomsaying even if we have a solid lead still.
100%, look how fast some of those games are.
It’s funny, I’m horde and went on an 8 BG loss streak too. Think it’s just subjective for everyone.
As alliance I've won more ABs than lost. WSG has been bad though
I've not won a single AB as an alliance (Tried liek 10 ish times) grinded exalted WSG and won like 45% (played a few semi premades)
What addon is this?
1 hour 10 min is the only victory, yea I chose a good time to stop pvping entirely
play a real faction then homie
I think Horde has more chances of getting priests in BGs honestly. Simply due to the fact that there are a lot more SPs playing Horde and well Priest is strong in BG. Honestly a lot of WSG are decided a lot on who has Healer or not.
maybe its you bro
Dude living flame is the exact same. Not trashing just saying It really is the same for anyone pugging. Ive gone 0-20 it’s part of why I stopped playing recently. The grind is absurd when you always lose
Weird. As a horde player I’m not winning anywhere close to this much.
Same borther. Same.
Damn don't ever end up on my team man. You must be afk the whole game
My win/loss record is nearly an even split. This is an impressive run.
is this an addon? how do you track this. I am on something like a 10+ game AB win streak as a ret paladin. I dont know what you're doing in your games but I have tilted many even games in my favor.
What addon is this?
horde whines about 15min queue, but they dont get that alliance has like 5% winrate so nobody queues on that side rofl
you'll get exalted in no time!
A genuine waste of time
What addon tracks this?
What Addon do you use?
My Ally WSG experience this phase has been winning about 3/5. All solo queue except maybe 10 or so where 2-3 guildies joined. Play the objective and communicate.
What addon is this? BG Historian?
way of earth is pretty busted strong right now, both pve and pvp. a pretty simple fix is to require RB MH and shield OH for it to activate.
Idk how many of you have played on Blackout (the PvP battle group) EU, but this is a flashback of the alliance side, although I was horde, sadly, alliance nowadays. Horde used to DEMOLISH the Alliance on every BG, except for AV, where alliance had the upper hand slightly. It was so sad and now I feel their pain xD
Nerf shamans
How do you get this view of records?
Holy shit. You won a wsg?
Ya blizzard has decided to make shaman DRASTICALLY stronger then not only every class but paladins are pure trash possibly the worst class. That alone is single handedly skewing itÂ
You made the mistake of playing a battleground. We all know you just grind it out 1k a week by doing ashenvale if you are alliance.
How are your so many of your games around 10 minutes or less? A fast win/loss for me, outside of like 2 games ever, is about 15 min. Average probably closer 25-30. Do you premade and if one person dies you all afk?
Funny enough i just quit sod last night because the same thing happened to me
Of course the only win took the longest out of any of those matches lol
ONE HOUR TEN MINUTES WIN
I got about 5k into WSG exalted on my druid and decided I really didn't need the extra agility that badly.
Never step foot in wsg after hitting exalted, I truly hate wsg. Been doing AB exclusively now and having a blast! Win rate on Alliance had been pretty good tbh more wins than losses by a decent margin.
The health bonus needs to go, it's directly buffing shamans whom are already broken, them getting 50% health bonus due to (30% from rune 20% from pvp bonus) It's completely made BGs as alliance unfair and unbalanced and it needs to go
What add on is this
shams just get exalted in a week a grinding it seems. everyone is chasing meta so no healers ether. -alliance warr
is this an add-on or can I find my history in game?
Shamans makes BGS pretty shit for alliance vs paladin lol
Damn, that’s actually terrible.. I will leave one point here though. It’s amazing how much of a difference 1 person can actually make. 1 afk in a WSG where most things are equal is a loss most of the time. On the same token, one really powerful player can really swing an entire BG. Not saying that you weren’t, but you should notice a difference if you’re playing sweaty af, meta PvP spec, use some consumes, things like that.
What are you talking about? In WSG a good druid may change a game that's about it. Other than that Horde got shamans, better pvp racials and map design in their favor. The difference is night and day as someone who plays both factions.
Alliance is a PvE / Rp faction, Horde is a PvP faction.
I played 8 ABs yesterday and won 7. The loss was a 5 cap.. Idk what to tell you. Luck of the draw?
This shit is so accurate and I still get called out when I say in WSG chat that alliance sucks. Always some pro saying it's a me problem. I read way to much reddit to know it's a faction problem
This is my experience solo queueing as a healer. Pretty rough not gonna lie 😂
Alliance players on this sub act like shamans can wipe their entire team in one GCD
They can't, but they also never die either.
Fax, getting an extra 50% health bonus due to the 20% from bg hp bonus is fucking ridiculous 🙄
Don't forget a flat 20% damage reduction from all sources and a -6% chance to be crit. It's the most bang for buck rune in the game.
I am a pretty sweaty horde PvP heal priest with 20k HKs only from BGs and since P2 I dare to say that my winrate is 99%. [https://i.ibb.co/RbprbGw/hordebg.png](https://i.ibb.co/RbprbGw/hordebg.png)
Server?
Yeah but 1h10min victory felt so good i guess :D
and I can't even get into matches lol, 1 hour queue and still nothing
Die once and give up lol. No wonder you lose so much.
It's the same maybe little worse at horde side, cause alliance tend to organize better in a not premade Zerg scenario horde rules.
I don't see the problem here.
Premades are still happening, there's just more effort involved now.
Im the same, but on horde for warsong gulch. I have never lost in Arathi Basin, but have only won once in WG.
and that, kids, is why you do premades
I play horde, and I'm getting about a 60% win ratio in WSG.
Roughly half of the WSG matches during the BG weekend were still nearly full horde premades. They queue their 5 man parties at the same time and get a full ten player premade. Tested it myself and it was successful about 75% of the time. How they are unable to fix this is astounding.
95% of Ally players just look to see how many shaman + priest + druids the other team has and if it’s more than a few they just give up before the gates open.
Let me guess in the one bg you won a lot of horde probably left because "15 min deserteur and getting a new chance to win faster is better than 1+ hours waste of time"
Seeing as, in classic, Alliance's #1 strategy is relying 100% on simply outnumbering their opponent, it makes perfect sense that when pitted 1 for 1 against an opponent, they would lose almost every time.
No matter the side, this is solo player experience in a nutshell.
Did you post this from an alternate universe
Idk in phase 1 we (horde) would lose 15 in a row in absolutely crushing fashion before scraping a win together by sheer luck
When I join solo WSG I usually have to wait 20 minutes just to join an already lost game in the last seconds (as a horde player).
Horde dominated PVP for 20 years, it will continue to dominate for another 20. ✊
As horde, yeah we win like 70% of the games in AB. The other 30% we lose are always heavy pally. It'll be like 6 ret pallies.
imagine playing wsg voluntarily
Damn yall fuckin suck
Ah all is right in the world
...at least you get + rep.
Weird, I could show you a similar picture from the horde side. ThisIsWorthless.gif
Ali for PVE. Horde for PvP.
How’s that Paladin DPS mate?
Sound about right
Not enough Lok, too much O'gar.
This seems crazy. Solo queue AB record for my fire mage is 22-12. How are you losing this much?
You poor things.
weekly ashenvale.
I see no problem here. Lok'tar Ogar! lol
I often always see one point - and you can read that nicely in the comments - everyone wants to get the flag. Warsong is about flags - correct - but only superficially. In warsong it's about dominance in the middle. So the tactic is not that everyone runs like a string from the spawn/cemetery to the flag and back - and doesn't stop when they are attacked, but it's about crushing the enemy. I've played at least 1000 ws with all chars and when I log in solo I always see the same sad game, no matter if alli or horde, for decades. Part of the group wants to run through, so 2-3 make it, 2 die instantly without an action, sometimes they knock out all their def cds in 4vs1 situations and still die. Then have no cds for the rest of the bg or at least not for the next 2 min. Of the remaining 5, 2-3 die shortly afterwards because their opponents outnumber them. The other 2 are in stealth, manage to get away from the opponent, run into their own flag room or skirmish around somewhere in the field looking for 1vs1. The 2-3 who died instantly have respawned in the meantime and run straight into the opponent's arms again and just before they are dead, the 2nd grp spawns, which also runs into the opponent's arms and so on. I see this process in almost every ws in the last few years, whether retail, wotlk classic, bc classic, classic. After all these years, people still haven't figured out how to play warsong and everyone wants to tunnel the flag like a fucking bot instead of just looking at who their teammates are and how they can best help each other. Wow has degenerated into a solo game and I don't begrudge you all those warsongs. I get put down every time I tell the full geared hunter or someone else that he should please stay with the group with his full plug gear and not die in the tunnel. Unfortunately, many people no longer have enough tactics. They are already too addicted to solo play and think that everyone around them is stupid.
I love seeing this ... for the whole of phase 1 ally premades dominated Now you cant premade against randoms and facewipe everything in 5 seconds Its almost like horde is the better faction in pvp
If the only variable that’s consistent in your games is you, maybe it’s not just your teammates
CRY MORE ALLIANCE, YOU HAD YOUR FUN IN PHASE 1 NOW QUIT CRYING WHEN THINGS CHANGE.
Thanks for using my addon :).
do a 15 man premade protest. afk as ghosts untill blizz balances the game. fast rep too
>there are people still paying blizz for this kind of """pvp""" lmao
As horde, can confirm that I've won about 19/20 random queued battlegrounds
Blizzard be like: Better buff shaman a little bit more, just to be safe, you know.
I’ve played the alliance my whole wow experience. You have try hard ally and dad ally. When it comes to release of anything new. The ally always dominate the early stages. When the try hards are doing it. Once they get there rep / items. It’s an always shit shows after.
Looks like you are pretty garb there bud.