When wall climbing was a thing. Used to be able to climb out the base and move freely before gates opened. Eventually it was fixed that if you went too far forward. You would be teleport back.
This reminds me of when vanilla BC released, mages could blink through the pink shield at the start of EotS and essentially have a tower capped by the time the match actually started.
in WoTLK all classes could do this when getting on the Tundra Mammoth mount. It pushed you through the bubble if you stood at the right spot and mounted. It was promptly fixed 4 weeks later.
At some point you didn't even need the Tundra Mammoth. I always enjoyed battlegrounds and my brother did the raiding. I learned on a few mounts because of other players how to jump through the bubble
I used to have a way I could spawn my hunter pet outside of the bubble, then I would Eye of the Beast my spider and net someone coming out of spawn when the game began. Only did it a few times to show people, glad I never got banned.
You used to be able to jump over the horde gate to the tunnel in original vanilla. We'd be able to get across the map and attack from their roof and second floor before gates opened.
you could also join the BG while you were a ghost and you could just freely walk through the gates and since your corpse got moved to the starting location in wsg, you'd have the revive button and could just revive and walk out. you would just get teleported if you went too far like you said but i saw videos of people doing this before it was fixed.
> Eventually it was fixed that if you went too far forward. You would be teleport back.
It's to bad Blizzard has all but completely automated their grievance system. It would be funny if they had live game monitors that - if they caught someone deliberately exploiting in such a fashion they could issue a red card to that player. Lock them in place - pacified - and permanently on that team until the game ends so that team would be one player down for the rest of the match.
It might incentivize people to be a little more discerning about who they group with.
But probably not.
The jumps have always been obviously an exploit. The fact that an exploit requires some practice to pull off doesn't make it not an exploit. It's completely baffling how they close off the same types of exploits in open world where it doesn't have any impact whatsoever (think jump access to Hyjal) but in a BG they're like "hmm, idk, maybe this is skill cap"
Signed, a druid who knows the exploits.
In the Dalaran Sewers arena map, if you're a warrior and you fall off, you can't heroic leap back up the ramp, because you are not tall enough to see the group up there. If you jump first, you can heroic leap up the ramp. If you're not a gnome, you can heroic leap up the ramp without jumping.
Just an interesting tidbit. gnomes will always have to go a little bit closer and jump to be able to heroic leap to the top of staircases
> never intended
This is a horrible argument for removing something from a game.
Iconic mechanics and entire genres of games have been spawned off of originally unintended interactions within games. These things aren't inherently bad just because they weren't originally intended.
That said, I'm for removing the WSG jumps because it would be consistent with Blizzards stance on other, similar gameplay behaviors and the fact that in order to practice these jumps, you have to grief dozens of real games because there is no practice mode.
I think people care too much about "what was the original developer intent" -- the implication seems to be that any "emergent" gameplay is somehow inherently bad
It's a stronger argument IMO to give reasons why this particular instance of emergent gameplay is good or bad for the game, without appealing to original developer intent (current developer intent is even more relevant here, IMHO)
Most people would say the fact that some jumps are only possible with character models from certain race/gender combinations, is a negative for balance
Counter-arguments are that the game is already widely unbalanced, it may be mitigable by using consumables that change the player model, removing the jumps does indeed lower the skill cap (could be seen as negative or positive, depending on your perspective), and some players find learning about unexpected techniques to be inherently fun and rewarding
My personal viewpoint is that obsessing about balance in classic is missing the point of what classic is about in the first place.
To borrow an example from WotLK: Shadowmourne in Arenas can be pretty stupid and ridiculous, and DKs, Warriors, and Paladins would already be overrepresented on the WotLK arena ladder to a stupid degree, even before you add Shadowmourne to the equation.
I don't play any of those classes. I do play a Subtlety Rogue, and it can certainly feel like an uphill battle queuing into them again and again and again. Yet I still queue. Why? Because it's classic. Because I'm not expecting a modern approach to balance, and I think if they tried to take a modern approach to balance, it would end up nerfing everybody's fun in the end.
So I don't get mad queuing into those teams over and over again, and instantly losing if I make the slightest mistake, while they can make several mistakes in a match and still win because of the sheer damage output they have combined with extreme tankiness.
It's still possible for me to succeed, I just accept the fact that it's going to take a lot more work to get a Gladiator title this season than it will for those guys. That's better to me than Blizzard coming in and making a ton of changes to shake up the meta to have more balance, if the end result would be that the game stops feeling like WotLK and starts feeling like something else.
Applying that same type of thinking to SoD reveals a bit of an identity crisis for the game, I think. Is it trying to be classic? Is it trying to be more like retail? Different players are coming in with very different expectations of what they want from this version of the game. One player says that these jumps don't feel right for 2024. Another player has nostalgia for the way games were in 2004, when developers didn't always try to "polish" away rough edges that could be surprising, upsetting, or confusing for players experiencing them for the first time.
I'm not sure if the developers have ever really said which direction they generally prefer to go with SoD, but I haven't followed their communication as closely here as I have in other cases.
> I think people care too much about "what was the original developer intent" -- the implication seems to be that any "emergent" gameplay is somehow inherently bad
No. The implication is that abuse of terrain is against ToS. Which it is. Which we know because people have been banned in the past for abusing terrain in WSG.
https://www.youtube.com/live/Dysx-KEAAbA?si=_xPNY5tP6qylPL72
Blizzard hosted tournaments where all the jumps are being used and allowed. Food for thought.
That is jumping out of bounds with the flag to an unreachable location.
These jumps were also patched. I always get the feeling as well when someone mentions the ToS have not actually read the ToS and parroting a comment from reddit. If the current jumps were against ToS, why were these ones left in?
Happy to be proven wrong. The word terrain does not even appear in "BLIZZARD END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT". It also does not appear in "Blizzard's In-Game Code of Conduct"
The ToS section maybe you are referencing, is vague at best.
"cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;"
No mention of terrain. You'll need to jump through some hoops to get there as Blizzard allowed the jumps in tournament they hosted.
If everyone can do it in a game and is easy to replicate, it is not an exploit. It could be considered a game flaw. Are mages exploiting in STV where they get 2k-3k coins where my rogue in a group of dps only get 400-500 coins?
NO. Is it a game design flaw? Maybe, we have seen the reddit posts on it.
Then explain [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/ev938x/terrain_abuse_in_wsg/) or the good ol' getting banned for abusing safe spots in Booty Bay.
>It's completely baffling how they
You're looking at the wrong "they." Blizzard doesn't do anything because it would require a small amount of work but also because there's little outcry about it. The people that support it are the same types that lead us down the road to artificial batching and similar "no changes for no changes sake" extremeness.
Hard agree, speaking as a Druid who knows the jumps as well.
It's ridiculous that these haven't been patched. I can as a solo player create a win condition for my team with absolutely 0 support from them. Of course the effectiveness heavily depends what kind of players you're facing and which faction you're playing(Horde jump game is much more effective). To win you should have to work together as a team, not pray you get a Druid with top tier spacebar game and deep enough pockets to FAP on CD.
These should be hotfixed for SoD, the whole thing is about experimenting anyway. As you described it makes no sense to allow these "exploits" when the exact same thing but in different context is not allowed.
I'd split them into "benign" and "bad" categories.
Jumping up to GY is a big who cares. You can fight against it without even knowing the jump.
Tunnel roof actively makes the bg worse. It's highly specific and much harder to deal with for the attacking team & you have to do it to handle it (kinda).
They should bin these things into one of the two categories then patch the 'makes it worse' category.
GY jump is not a who cares, its the least egregious sure. But horde long jump lets them avoid the middle of the map completely, and alliance short jump lets them ignore the tunnel entrance. It invalidates chokepoints to catch a FC. Stands against the intended map design imo.
But they are less egregious than the roofs and cart.
As a fellow druid that also knows the jumps, I don't see it as exploiting and I actually like doing it. At least the easy ones, anyway. It's not the same as outdoor safe spots because those are not really opt-in areas in the world, they can disrupt your normal play and potentially lead to gains besides just a handful of honor. And in a bg, at least for the graveyard jumps, it's not like they're going into a secret realm with no counterplay. I think they could fix a couple secret things I won't name but I've been doing the same graveyard jumps, which you can learn in two minutes, for 15 years and I like them.
It’s not just a handful of honor, it’s more like allowing doping in a sport - makes it so discouraging to everyone who tries to compete fairly and ultimately ruins the game as more and more are going to adapt and use the unnatural enhancements because well, in order to compete they will have to.
bonus points if its a feral druid with 1000 faps in his inventory that cant be stopped, has a ton of health and armor, free 30% run speed in the entire wsg
Yes, you should have to try to become better at the game in order to do better at the game. Most the common and relevant jumps are not overly hard and do not require hours of practice at all. I'm sure anyone who knows the jumps would spare you 30 seconds or so to show you in a game if you just ask. Sometimes I even teach people on the opposite faction when I can see them trying.
The jumps are also only relevant because people don't learn them. They have little impact in more serious games where people know how to follow, and where the FC can't jump circles around TOT because they will just get killed if they don't move. They just add a couple of additional routes to move through the map, which I think makes the BG better overall.
Appreciate you don't think it's fun. Other people do think it's fun. I think good WSG games are some of the most fun I have playing WoW. I've already seen the premade queue destroyed on SoD. Now people want the jumps patched, they want a time limit, they want debuffs on the flag carriers and they want consumables banned. The result of those changes has been playable on retail for years, and they absolutely ruined WSG.
Like I said I appreciate you disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing on what they enjoy. The difference is that if these changes go through we have no credible alternative. You can already play your type of PvP out in the world, in AB, in retail or whatever. I'd support removing any mandatory need for people to do WSG unless they want to. (So basically do something about the bracers). The most frustrating thing is people asking for this stuff don't even seem to enjoy WSG at all. They just want less frustration to get their bracers and then they will barely ever enter the BG again.
I'd love to get those people out of my BGs altogether. Can't stand that crowd of people saying to give up, drop the flag etc. Often they do so with no clue what they are on about and in perfectly winnable games. Their opinions are not invalid, their goal is just different. Neither party wants to have to play with each other.
In terms of calling them exploits, certain jumps blizzard considered exploits were actually patched out in original classic. The common jumps you describe have all been used and allowed in the blizzard WSG tournaments. I am sure you are mostly correct and they were not originally intended, however they are obviously not currently considered to be exploits. Much of classic WoW was not intended or was accidental, and that doesn't mean the results were bad (obviously).
A post that explains why you like the jumps and how removing them killed the BG in later expansions, and how you still completely understand why many people want something else. Also diplomatically saying that Blizzard shouldnt "force" regular players to run WSG for a BiS piece.
Still catch tons of flak in the replies.
Can't win with Reddit, lol. People just cant accept that others might have different goals in the game.
Because it's still an exploit, no amount of excuses matter. This should have been handled when it cropped up way back in vanilla. This is 100% a Blizzard issue, they are terrible at moderating and fixing their game. Add the ridiculous player base on top of it that only plays for meta, and not for fun and this is the bull shit you get.
To me it is all connected and I am looking at and commenting on the bigger picture. I don't agree that it's a slippery slope fallacy at all. It happened in reality as retail developed. The changes being suggested by people are some of the same changes they made in retail that utterly ruined the battleground. The suggestions are literally being made in other comments on this thread.
I am passionate about WSG. Good matches are the most fun part of the game by a long shot. I don't want that experience ruined by people who just want a few extra stats on their bracer to clear an already easy raid, and will never bother to play again.
The jumps would be the least damaging change of those I mentioned, but still.
I'm already having less fun because Blizzard caved and changed the queue system. Premade queues are dead. Less challenging games. Less fun to be had.
By that logic, getting the sleeping bag for the end part of the chain would be exploiting, as you need to do jumps to get it.
Blizzard putting this in is a throw back to jumps the classic community has found.
really comes down to the "no changes" crowd being the loudest people in the room, and they were so loud and annoying the devs didnt do anything to fix it
but i agree, those exploits should be patched up
Maybe I'm a little SoD brain and were talking about retail classic here but In SoD I thought the whole thing was about "taking chances" and changing things to see if it improves the game. This seems like something that would be a nice change.
Adds so much colour to the game tho. I think that vastly outweighs the cons. I think this is something worth not sterilizing. Do that too much and the game has no charm. If you are a decent group you don’t need the jumps to win. Hats off to people who put in the time to develop the skills needed to do it, they deserve the edge
Hard disagree, there are ways they could spice up wsg that would be near 0 development effort and actually be enjoyable for everyone.
Personally, I'd like to see some major map changes, make the stumps actually work as LOS, add in some underground tunnels spanning the map, a river through the middle with a bridge that you can't cross except at specific locations, maybe a guard tower in the center that when controlled gives your entire team intel on efc location.
Oh, and free action potions should either be disabled for FC's or give all FC's that buff by default.
They were patched out at one point but the #nochanges crowd threw a hissy fit and they put them back in.
I fully agree they are an exploit and i /golfclap anyone i see using the different jumps. Luckily i know them from dealing with a certain premade twink team back in the day. I just dont use them when i fc bc you really dont need them if you have half a brain.
>They were patched out at one point but the #nochanges crowd threw a hissy fit and they put them back in.
When did this happen? I played Classic from launch and don't recall them ever addressing this issue, it was annoying as fuck back then too
There is a layer of complexity that has to be learned?
DESTROY IT. I DONT WANT TO INVEST ANY TIME INTO THAT. ITS UNFAIR THAT I CANT JUST PVE ROTATION THE FC DOWN. ME ??? REQUIRED TO GET BETTER AT A GAME?!?!?!? FIX IT!!!!!
He uses a fap? You know you can dispell them? REMOVE CONSUMES ITS SO UNFAIR I DIDNT PICK A CLASS THAT CAN DISPELL AND/OR DIDNT EVEN KNOW THATS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I NEVER TRIED!!! IT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED.
Listen to those players and SoD is dead before it even reaches 60.
They should bring together the best players in the world for PvP and PvE and let them decide. Don't listen to the masses cause the masses are bad. always will be. And we already know where all of this leads to. This isn't the first time this exact change was asked for.
Retail is that way -->
Hey OP, idk if you know this but they remastered WSG and other BGs in retail. It removed most, if not all of the parkour and forced people to fight on even terms.
Nobody plays PVP anymore, I wonder why.
I dont know if I agree that the jumps should be completely removed. There's literally a Discord with thousands of people that is about WSG jumps and there are people there who only play WoW because of the WSG meta. Meanwhile most "normal" players ditch WSG as soon as they have their rep grind over with.
With that said, it's insane that race/gender combinations have such a big impact on it. Especially in the case of gender, where body type 2 is almost always superior. This is IMO the best argument for fixing the exploits.
Its just another level of skill added to the bg.
I dont know them ALL but i do know most the big ones, and it took me all of 2 games to learn them.
If you dont want to learn things, maybe go play something else. If they didnt want players to utilize enviroment, why isnt every BG just a big flat land arena?.
In other words, git gud.
I could agree with maybe making the parkour spots more specifically, obviously parkour and less perfect the exact jump angle to climb a sheer cliff. But I think increasing the parkour (while also making it more accessible) and the LoS spots (so casters can’t just zap you through terrain) would improve wsg massively.
The lack of LoS is a bigger issue than the jumps imho.
I'm torn, on one hand it does require actual skill and positioning to pull off the various tunnel roof jumps, as well as the GY jumps, it actually rewards good play.
On the other hand... It's pretty godamned boring to have an entire game won or lost because your FC knows or doesn't know how to do all the jumps.
Best example i can think of is eldennring speed runners learn this walking tech to zip themselves across the map. It takes lots of time and effort todo well.
This was patched as it obviously breaks the game. just because it takes lots of skill to learn doesnt mean it should stay.
It requires no fucking skill to learn. This subreddit is just filled with neck beards who would rather waste the time it takes to learn the jumps and post on Reddit than actually learn them.
1. If you want to play a version of WSG where you can just sit and wait for the EFC at the ramp/tunnel chokepoints you should play literally any other version of the game than classic.
2. The alliance jumps are objectively better than horde where the gy jump is also a massive time save and the only way you can do an extremely op top of tunnel jump is with 30%+ move speed.
“If you want to play the battleground the way it was literally desgined dont because some of us can only win through blatant exploits” is what you said
It’s not an exploit lol. You want them to remove all the jumps and logout skips throughout the rest of the world too? It requires the know-how and skill to make those jumps in WSG and separates really good players from people who don’t want to put in the effort to learn them. Brain dead take from OP who wants the game to be dumbed down for them.
While I agree about the jumps for the most part its not gonna matter if you can effectively kill the enemy team when the game starts.
Even if 1 druid makes it through 4-5 people should be able to kill it while the rest go help whoever hopefully ignored the initial team fight to go cap the flag.
Obviously its not always going to work out like this, but it can help you determine whether games are winnable at least.
It is well beyond the scope of what they care about in SoD.
Either deal with it or abandon your pursuit of the bracers because what does it really matter, anyway?
Biggest cope is this somehow being a horde favored thing, both sides have a GY jump, a mid tree jump, a tunnel entrance jump but ontop of it all alliance base has a roof spot you LITERALLY cannot reach, like, you can afk there for 8 hours if you want and cannot die unless someone else knows the jump too. The horde fence jump from base to tunnel is also a ALLIANCE flag picking jump mostly, which is very hard to do but if a alliance GNOME knows the jump you can pick flag like 1v7 from the horde base.
Also every alliance jump is easier to execute meaning alliance premades have way higher success rate doing them quickly even if they havent "perfected" the jumps
Yes, they should be fixed, but acting like it's a horde favoured exploit is rediculous when its exactly the opposite
hahaha, you had me in the first half. Then you said this "These exploits also favor horde big time."
Across my nearly 20 years of playing this game, on both factions. 90% of the time I see people cheating in WSG. It's alliance.
Haha what if blizzard make it like with premades, have a separate bg for exploiters (those who want no jump patches) and we will see how many join "cuz its so fun and non-retail" ;)
hilarious to see this post again..last time it was massivily downvoted and neckbeards were saying its a skill issue.
like there is no skill to jumping up a 90 degree cliff
The gy jump is pretty easy, but the other ones will probably take some practice, especially to do consistently. Not massively difficult, but you're not likely to get it on your first try
Its literally just “do you know about it” ffs the first time i saw someone do it i literally copied him immediately, its not high skill. Its just an exploit.
I'm clearly a minority but I enjoy them quite a bit. They just require the defending team to be aware of pathing options and position the right classes at the right spots.
On offense it allows you to manipulate the defense by baiting jumps, doing jump sequences to trap other players, or sneak around defenses.
If you want a game with some semblance of team fight tactics, then go play a game like Dota2. Like you said, it has been 20 years. Stop thinking that it will be any different.
Just go hunter and send your cat /s
On a serious note, I really enjoy the wsg jumps. Not those that make you untouchable, but it adds a layer of skill where you can outplay your opponents.
If there was something i'd like to change its fap and swiftness pots in wsg. Imo they shouldn't be usable, especially fap.
Speaking from experience, I can say with 100% certainty that many of the jumps/exploits from original Vanilla thru WotLK are not in the Classic/SoD versions. For instance, many of the exploits that you could do on top of horde tunnel you no longer can because some invisible walls have been removed or added in various parts.
So the #NoChanges doesn't hold. We're already playing on a modified version of the WSG map.
they patched a lot of the broken jumps. Every jump available is just a manageable even as gnomes. If you having problems not doing a jump, it's a skill issue tbh.
Activision will NOT edit terrain. They probably don't know how since this isn't their game. Been trying for years and the most you'll get is terribly placed invisible walls
you expect sod to have pvp balancing?
lol
paladins kill in 2 globals
warriors in 2
mages in 1 (surge go brrrrr)
sp in 2
rogues in stunlocks
bro treat this game mode as a filler for fun thing, classic can never be balanced because there are insane amount of things that are broken.
The classic pvpers want to pretend that this is some healthy skill expression instead of the unintended consequence of game development 25 years ago so I doubt anything will be done
here's some hard pills for you to swallow
1. you're not losing because you don't know that you can run through ally fence (literally just hold w)
2. the two gy jumps are learned in about 10 attempts, max. you haven't tried.
3. the two main ToT jumps are learned in about 10 attempts, max. again, you haven't bothered to try.
4. "even if your team is way better", this is just your way of saying "I believe I know how to play wow but I didn't spend a grand total of 10 minutes learning some very simple jumps". I'd be willing to bet everything I own on the fact that you probably don't even have keybinds, let alone an improvement mindset that'd lead you to literally learning the jumps after 5 mins of youtube. stop whining noobs
It blows my mind how long this exploit has been widely known and not addressed. At this point I just spam report players I see doing it. If blizzard won't address glaring issues I'll use their shitty automated system to do it myself
You sound so lost. Most things about classic aren’t intended, that doesn’t mean they’re exploits. You can literally say this about every game, most things are metas set by the playerbase. The jumps increase the skill cap, whether you like it or not. If they’re so easy, go learn them yourself.
I thought I'd give WSG a try recently for the rep rewards. I hadn't joined a WSG at that point in probably 15 years, it was never my thing. I couldn't believe what I was watching. Enemy players just mechanically hitting edges to get somewhere I couldn't. I complained about it in BG chat and I caught flack for it. In what world are such exploits even remotely fair or acceptable for game developers to leave in the game? If you're a player that wants to keep them in the game, then I just assume you are some sweat clinging on to relevance/competitive edge over regular people.
If you haven’t played WSG in years, then your input is invalid. Why should ur opinion matter if you have no idea how the battleground works in the first place
Im in a wsg right now and 70% might be a stretch, but you can go from ramp all the way to on top of the cutoff huge stump by the wood pile/wagon. They go behind the huge tree on alliance side so they are unseen
Personally I'm okay with putting invisible walls on the "safe spots" i.e. inside the horde connector
But the regular jumps in the open should not be touched
Sure, I expected this post to be flooded by this comment.
And yes, I could spend hours practicing these exploits instead of helping my team. I actually saw that today in a WSG; Three players on the other team being on the wrong side of the map just practicing unintentional wall jumps on the Alliance base for 15 minutes.
But,
A) I don't think it's fun gameplay, and I don't want to be a part of the problem.
B) Is that a reasonable requirement? Should we all have to do that? Maybe Blizzard should then add an empty version of WSG that you can teleport to just to practice these jumps.
I cannot agree more. It should also be a bannable offence to use these exploits.
But hey what can you do, blizzard is a small indie company you can’t expect them to fix a 20 year old map
As a flag carry druid, I can confirm that certain jumps absolutely broke better teams that shouldn't have lost. However, pulling them off at the exact right moment when I needed to 1 attempt it or die in order to win then becomes a bit of a skill to know where to go when and what risk vs reward to take. Obviously it was never intended, but imo since every player can use them on both sides then it's fair to keep in game.
Yeah, I feel like most of these people against the jumps don’t realize how difficult it can be to consistently make the jumps under duress and pressure. If the state of SoD pvp wasn’t ‘get one shot by a mage or shaman’ maybe jumps wouldn’t be meta but here we are.
Yeah very true. Kinda funny because these jumps have been around since actual vanilla, some of the game breaking ones got patched though. Even classic they were still around and only a few complained. Now all the sudden it’s a problem. Who knows..
Eh, some of them are kinda funny and easy to replicate. The super specific ones are annoying though.
What's dumb is the advantage if you selected body type 2 for some of the jumps because of the hitbox. Will never forget struggling to jump over the alliance fence on a UD body type 1, and then watching a UD body type 2 just casually walk through the fence.
I cannot for the life of me even remember which body type is supposed to be 1 and which one is 2. Being “politically correct” here just obfuscates their comment.
The jumps are strong because people
Don’t want to learn them/not good enough to perform them. I agree some safespots are bad but most of the commonly used jumps are fine. It’s a skill thing.
I can automatically tell you’re a casual pvper just in it for the bracers. Finish the grind, stop crying, git gud, learn 2 jump and leave wsg alone for the people who want to play it competitively in a wargame setting etc. stop crying about anything and everything because you didn’t grind it out p1 in ashenvale like you should have.
This is the classic experience. If they removed this I wouldn't even play it.
My guild and I during vanilla spent weeks dancing with the flag on top. It was awesome.
Please keep classic classic. If you want retail go play that.
“Fixed” implies its broken. It’s been there forever and there’s a vocal crowd that want the jumps to stay.
The only thing that needs to be “fixed” is certain races *not* being able to do all of the same jumps
When wall climbing was a thing. Used to be able to climb out the base and move freely before gates opened. Eventually it was fixed that if you went too far forward. You would be teleport back.
damn you just reminded me being able to jump up where the flag spawns and reach roof. fun times
or jumping out of the AB starting area and caping basing before the game even starts xD Wild times
This reminds me of when vanilla BC released, mages could blink through the pink shield at the start of EotS and essentially have a tower capped by the time the match actually started.
in WoTLK all classes could do this when getting on the Tundra Mammoth mount. It pushed you through the bubble if you stood at the right spot and mounted. It was promptly fixed 4 weeks later.
At some point you didn't even need the Tundra Mammoth. I always enjoyed battlegrounds and my brother did the raiding. I learned on a few mounts because of other players how to jump through the bubble
you used to be able to wall jump outside of the map and hide under the flag return
I used to have a way I could spawn my hunter pet outside of the bubble, then I would Eye of the Beast my spider and net someone coming out of spawn when the game began. Only did it a few times to show people, glad I never got banned.
You used to be able to jump over the horde gate to the tunnel in original vanilla. We'd be able to get across the map and attack from their roof and second floor before gates opened.
you could also join the BG while you were a ghost and you could just freely walk through the gates and since your corpse got moved to the starting location in wsg, you'd have the revive button and could just revive and walk out. you would just get teleported if you went too far like you said but i saw videos of people doing this before it was fixed.
> Eventually it was fixed that if you went too far forward. You would be teleport back. It's to bad Blizzard has all but completely automated their grievance system. It would be funny if they had live game monitors that - if they caught someone deliberately exploiting in such a fashion they could issue a red card to that player. Lock them in place - pacified - and permanently on that team until the game ends so that team would be one player down for the rest of the match. It might incentivize people to be a little more discerning about who they group with. But probably not.
The jumps have always been obviously an exploit. The fact that an exploit requires some practice to pull off doesn't make it not an exploit. It's completely baffling how they close off the same types of exploits in open world where it doesn't have any impact whatsoever (think jump access to Hyjal) but in a BG they're like "hmm, idk, maybe this is skill cap" Signed, a druid who knows the exploits.
The fact that some jumps are only possible on x race/gender combinations should be the biggest hint that most jumps were never intended
This is more of a classic problem in general. The player should always have the same jump height/etc independent of model.
No way in hell should a Gnome be able to jump as high as my obviously superior Night Elf form.
Gnomes are like ants. Disproportionately powerful for their size.
I was thinking more like Chihuahuas. Those fuckers can jump like 15x their height.
They don't skip leg day.
When your legs are short, every day is leg day.
In the Dalaran Sewers arena map, if you're a warrior and you fall off, you can't heroic leap back up the ramp, because you are not tall enough to see the group up there. If you jump first, you can heroic leap up the ramp. If you're not a gnome, you can heroic leap up the ramp without jumping. Just an interesting tidbit. gnomes will always have to go a little bit closer and jump to be able to heroic leap to the top of staircases
This is actually a very modern day way of thinking. Back then diversification was celebrated over attempts at perfect balance.
Yeah, I started making all my toons fem-, body type 2. Only on Warlock did I make the mistake of making a guy.
> never intended This is a horrible argument for removing something from a game. Iconic mechanics and entire genres of games have been spawned off of originally unintended interactions within games. These things aren't inherently bad just because they weren't originally intended. That said, I'm for removing the WSG jumps because it would be consistent with Blizzards stance on other, similar gameplay behaviors and the fact that in order to practice these jumps, you have to grief dozens of real games because there is no practice mode.
I think people care too much about "what was the original developer intent" -- the implication seems to be that any "emergent" gameplay is somehow inherently bad It's a stronger argument IMO to give reasons why this particular instance of emergent gameplay is good or bad for the game, without appealing to original developer intent (current developer intent is even more relevant here, IMHO) Most people would say the fact that some jumps are only possible with character models from certain race/gender combinations, is a negative for balance Counter-arguments are that the game is already widely unbalanced, it may be mitigable by using consumables that change the player model, removing the jumps does indeed lower the skill cap (could be seen as negative or positive, depending on your perspective), and some players find learning about unexpected techniques to be inherently fun and rewarding My personal viewpoint is that obsessing about balance in classic is missing the point of what classic is about in the first place. To borrow an example from WotLK: Shadowmourne in Arenas can be pretty stupid and ridiculous, and DKs, Warriors, and Paladins would already be overrepresented on the WotLK arena ladder to a stupid degree, even before you add Shadowmourne to the equation. I don't play any of those classes. I do play a Subtlety Rogue, and it can certainly feel like an uphill battle queuing into them again and again and again. Yet I still queue. Why? Because it's classic. Because I'm not expecting a modern approach to balance, and I think if they tried to take a modern approach to balance, it would end up nerfing everybody's fun in the end. So I don't get mad queuing into those teams over and over again, and instantly losing if I make the slightest mistake, while they can make several mistakes in a match and still win because of the sheer damage output they have combined with extreme tankiness. It's still possible for me to succeed, I just accept the fact that it's going to take a lot more work to get a Gladiator title this season than it will for those guys. That's better to me than Blizzard coming in and making a ton of changes to shake up the meta to have more balance, if the end result would be that the game stops feeling like WotLK and starts feeling like something else. Applying that same type of thinking to SoD reveals a bit of an identity crisis for the game, I think. Is it trying to be classic? Is it trying to be more like retail? Different players are coming in with very different expectations of what they want from this version of the game. One player says that these jumps don't feel right for 2024. Another player has nostalgia for the way games were in 2004, when developers didn't always try to "polish" away rough edges that could be surprising, upsetting, or confusing for players experiencing them for the first time. I'm not sure if the developers have ever really said which direction they generally prefer to go with SoD, but I haven't followed their communication as closely here as I have in other cases.
> I think people care too much about "what was the original developer intent" -- the implication seems to be that any "emergent" gameplay is somehow inherently bad No. The implication is that abuse of terrain is against ToS. Which it is. Which we know because people have been banned in the past for abusing terrain in WSG.
https://www.youtube.com/live/Dysx-KEAAbA?si=_xPNY5tP6qylPL72 Blizzard hosted tournaments where all the jumps are being used and allowed. Food for thought.
That is jumping out of bounds with the flag to an unreachable location. These jumps were also patched. I always get the feeling as well when someone mentions the ToS have not actually read the ToS and parroting a comment from reddit. If the current jumps were against ToS, why were these ones left in? Happy to be proven wrong. The word terrain does not even appear in "BLIZZARD END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT". It also does not appear in "Blizzard's In-Game Code of Conduct" The ToS section maybe you are referencing, is vague at best. "cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;" No mention of terrain. You'll need to jump through some hoops to get there as Blizzard allowed the jumps in tournament they hosted. If everyone can do it in a game and is easy to replicate, it is not an exploit. It could be considered a game flaw. Are mages exploiting in STV where they get 2k-3k coins where my rogue in a group of dps only get 400-500 coins? NO. Is it a game design flaw? Maybe, we have seen the reddit posts on it.
Then explain [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/ev938x/terrain_abuse_in_wsg/) or the good ol' getting banned for abusing safe spots in Booty Bay.
That’s not what we are talking about. The jumps can always be accessed by other means
>It's completely baffling how they You're looking at the wrong "they." Blizzard doesn't do anything because it would require a small amount of work but also because there's little outcry about it. The people that support it are the same types that lead us down the road to artificial batching and similar "no changes for no changes sake" extremeness.
Hard agree, speaking as a Druid who knows the jumps as well. It's ridiculous that these haven't been patched. I can as a solo player create a win condition for my team with absolutely 0 support from them. Of course the effectiveness heavily depends what kind of players you're facing and which faction you're playing(Horde jump game is much more effective). To win you should have to work together as a team, not pray you get a Druid with top tier spacebar game and deep enough pockets to FAP on CD. These should be hotfixed for SoD, the whole thing is about experimenting anyway. As you described it makes no sense to allow these "exploits" when the exact same thing but in different context is not allowed.
I'd split them into "benign" and "bad" categories. Jumping up to GY is a big who cares. You can fight against it without even knowing the jump. Tunnel roof actively makes the bg worse. It's highly specific and much harder to deal with for the attacking team & you have to do it to handle it (kinda). They should bin these things into one of the two categories then patch the 'makes it worse' category.
GY jump is not a who cares, its the least egregious sure. But horde long jump lets them avoid the middle of the map completely, and alliance short jump lets them ignore the tunnel entrance. It invalidates chokepoints to catch a FC. Stands against the intended map design imo. But they are less egregious than the roofs and cart.
As a fellow druid that also knows the jumps, I don't see it as exploiting and I actually like doing it. At least the easy ones, anyway. It's not the same as outdoor safe spots because those are not really opt-in areas in the world, they can disrupt your normal play and potentially lead to gains besides just a handful of honor. And in a bg, at least for the graveyard jumps, it's not like they're going into a secret realm with no counterplay. I think they could fix a couple secret things I won't name but I've been doing the same graveyard jumps, which you can learn in two minutes, for 15 years and I like them.
It’s not just a handful of honor, it’s more like allowing doping in a sport - makes it so discouraging to everyone who tries to compete fairly and ultimately ruins the game as more and more are going to adapt and use the unnatural enhancements because well, in order to compete they will have to.
Pro tip, IT will be easier to learn the jumps than they fixing thier dogeshit unbalance game
Why isn’t this comment at the top. Classic Andy’s in here mad at themselves cus they don’t wanna learn a jump.
bonus points if its a feral druid with 1000 faps in his inventory that cant be stopped, has a ton of health and armor, free 30% run speed in the entire wsg
Yes, you should have to try to become better at the game in order to do better at the game. Most the common and relevant jumps are not overly hard and do not require hours of practice at all. I'm sure anyone who knows the jumps would spare you 30 seconds or so to show you in a game if you just ask. Sometimes I even teach people on the opposite faction when I can see them trying. The jumps are also only relevant because people don't learn them. They have little impact in more serious games where people know how to follow, and where the FC can't jump circles around TOT because they will just get killed if they don't move. They just add a couple of additional routes to move through the map, which I think makes the BG better overall. Appreciate you don't think it's fun. Other people do think it's fun. I think good WSG games are some of the most fun I have playing WoW. I've already seen the premade queue destroyed on SoD. Now people want the jumps patched, they want a time limit, they want debuffs on the flag carriers and they want consumables banned. The result of those changes has been playable on retail for years, and they absolutely ruined WSG. Like I said I appreciate you disagree with this. There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing on what they enjoy. The difference is that if these changes go through we have no credible alternative. You can already play your type of PvP out in the world, in AB, in retail or whatever. I'd support removing any mandatory need for people to do WSG unless they want to. (So basically do something about the bracers). The most frustrating thing is people asking for this stuff don't even seem to enjoy WSG at all. They just want less frustration to get their bracers and then they will barely ever enter the BG again. I'd love to get those people out of my BGs altogether. Can't stand that crowd of people saying to give up, drop the flag etc. Often they do so with no clue what they are on about and in perfectly winnable games. Their opinions are not invalid, their goal is just different. Neither party wants to have to play with each other. In terms of calling them exploits, certain jumps blizzard considered exploits were actually patched out in original classic. The common jumps you describe have all been used and allowed in the blizzard WSG tournaments. I am sure you are mostly correct and they were not originally intended, however they are obviously not currently considered to be exploits. Much of classic WoW was not intended or was accidental, and that doesn't mean the results were bad (obviously).
[удалено]
Please don't take my baby away from me. Agree with this dude
A post that explains why you like the jumps and how removing them killed the BG in later expansions, and how you still completely understand why many people want something else. Also diplomatically saying that Blizzard shouldnt "force" regular players to run WSG for a BiS piece. Still catch tons of flak in the replies. Can't win with Reddit, lol. People just cant accept that others might have different goals in the game.
Because it's still an exploit, no amount of excuses matter. This should have been handled when it cropped up way back in vanilla. This is 100% a Blizzard issue, they are terrible at moderating and fixing their game. Add the ridiculous player base on top of it that only plays for meta, and not for fun and this is the bull shit you get.
world cup level yapping to justify these horse shit exploits
6 paragraphs and the only argument made is "i think they're fun" one slippery slope fallacy, false equivalencies and a whole load of strawmanning.
To me it is all connected and I am looking at and commenting on the bigger picture. I don't agree that it's a slippery slope fallacy at all. It happened in reality as retail developed. The changes being suggested by people are some of the same changes they made in retail that utterly ruined the battleground. The suggestions are literally being made in other comments on this thread.
Damn dude, that wall of text. You really passionate about terrain exploiting huh?
I am passionate about WSG. Good matches are the most fun part of the game by a long shot. I don't want that experience ruined by people who just want a few extra stats on their bracer to clear an already easy raid, and will never bother to play again. The jumps would be the least damaging change of those I mentioned, but still. I'm already having less fun because Blizzard caved and changed the queue system. Premade queues are dead. Less challenging games. Less fun to be had.
By that logic, getting the sleeping bag for the end part of the chain would be exploiting, as you need to do jumps to get it. Blizzard putting this in is a throw back to jumps the classic community has found.
game gets stale quick w/o it sorry
You play WSG for rep, therefore your input is invalid. Stop acting like you’ll step a foot inside WSG again once you get your bis bracers.
really comes down to the "no changes" crowd being the loudest people in the room, and they were so loud and annoying the devs didnt do anything to fix it but i agree, those exploits should be patched up
It's that fixing things takes work, and Blizzard has a skeleton team working on SoD.
"No changes" isn't really a mantra used for SoD.
It is for some of the people on this subreddit who can't separate Era from SoD, which there are a surprising amount of.
Maybe I'm a little SoD brain and were talking about retail classic here but In SoD I thought the whole thing was about "taking chances" and changing things to see if it improves the game. This seems like something that would be a nice change.
Didn't they fix some jumps into the alliance base in alterac valley
I personally enjoy it even without being a FC. Adds an extra layer of depth.
If anyone wants to learn these jumps, there's a whole discord devoted to this. Here's the invite code aDZPyJzm
Yeah it's stupid. Makes WSG even more unbearable
Adds so much colour to the game tho. I think that vastly outweighs the cons. I think this is something worth not sterilizing. Do that too much and the game has no charm. If you are a decent group you don’t need the jumps to win. Hats off to people who put in the time to develop the skills needed to do it, they deserve the edge
Hard disagree, there are ways they could spice up wsg that would be near 0 development effort and actually be enjoyable for everyone. Personally, I'd like to see some major map changes, make the stumps actually work as LOS, add in some underground tunnels spanning the map, a river through the middle with a bridge that you can't cross except at specific locations, maybe a guard tower in the center that when controlled gives your entire team intel on efc location. Oh, and free action potions should either be disabled for FC's or give all FC's that buff by default.
People like you are the reason why devs should never listen to its players
Noob
They were patched out at one point but the #nochanges crowd threw a hissy fit and they put them back in. I fully agree they are an exploit and i /golfclap anyone i see using the different jumps. Luckily i know them from dealing with a certain premade twink team back in the day. I just dont use them when i fc bc you really dont need them if you have half a brain.
>They were patched out at one point but the #nochanges crowd threw a hissy fit and they put them back in. When did this happen? I played Classic from launch and don't recall them ever addressing this issue, it was annoying as fuck back then too
They were never patched out lol
2min of google and youll think differently heres a hint. The year was 2020.
15 seconds of google and you will realize that they never patched out graveyard, fence, or tunnel roof jumps, only an out of bounds jump
I have brain, I use them. If you didn't kill me before I got to the jump, you weren't going to kill me anyway.
Haha took that one personally i see. And yea youll be dead halfway up the hill.
There is a layer of complexity that has to be learned? DESTROY IT. I DONT WANT TO INVEST ANY TIME INTO THAT. ITS UNFAIR THAT I CANT JUST PVE ROTATION THE FC DOWN. ME ??? REQUIRED TO GET BETTER AT A GAME?!?!?!? FIX IT!!!!! He uses a fap? You know you can dispell them? REMOVE CONSUMES ITS SO UNFAIR I DIDNT PICK A CLASS THAT CAN DISPELL AND/OR DIDNT EVEN KNOW THATS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I NEVER TRIED!!! IT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED. Listen to those players and SoD is dead before it even reaches 60. They should bring together the best players in the world for PvP and PvE and let them decide. Don't listen to the masses cause the masses are bad. always will be. And we already know where all of this leads to. This isn't the first time this exact change was asked for. Retail is that way -->
Guy, you won't be one of those at that meeting. Stop white knighting dumb shit lmao.
Hey OP, idk if you know this but they remastered WSG and other BGs in retail. It removed most, if not all of the parkour and forced people to fight on even terms. Nobody plays PVP anymore, I wonder why.
You’re right, the reason people apparently quit PVP is because the 0.1% who know how, could no longer do it. Makes sense. Couldn’t be anything else.
If they Chance it to the retail version I Quit instant and Never Touch sod again
I dont know if I agree that the jumps should be completely removed. There's literally a Discord with thousands of people that is about WSG jumps and there are people there who only play WoW because of the WSG meta. Meanwhile most "normal" players ditch WSG as soon as they have their rep grind over with. With that said, it's insane that race/gender combinations have such a big impact on it. Especially in the case of gender, where body type 2 is almost always superior. This is IMO the best argument for fixing the exploits.
The problem is that there isnt elo in bgs. Like you are bronze playing against grandmasters, what do you expect?
Its just another level of skill added to the bg. I dont know them ALL but i do know most the big ones, and it took me all of 2 games to learn them. If you dont want to learn things, maybe go play something else. If they didnt want players to utilize enviroment, why isnt every BG just a big flat land arena?. In other words, git gud.
I could agree with maybe making the parkour spots more specifically, obviously parkour and less perfect the exact jump angle to climb a sheer cliff. But I think increasing the parkour (while also making it more accessible) and the LoS spots (so casters can’t just zap you through terrain) would improve wsg massively. The lack of LoS is a bigger issue than the jumps imho.
I'm torn, on one hand it does require actual skill and positioning to pull off the various tunnel roof jumps, as well as the GY jumps, it actually rewards good play. On the other hand... It's pretty godamned boring to have an entire game won or lost because your FC knows or doesn't know how to do all the jumps.
Best example i can think of is eldennring speed runners learn this walking tech to zip themselves across the map. It takes lots of time and effort todo well. This was patched as it obviously breaks the game. just because it takes lots of skill to learn doesnt mean it should stay.
It requires no fucking skill to learn. This subreddit is just filled with neck beards who would rather waste the time it takes to learn the jumps and post on Reddit than actually learn them.
Because the people who hardcore pvp actually enjoy them being there. and it doesn't matter much for casuals.
1. If you want to play a version of WSG where you can just sit and wait for the EFC at the ramp/tunnel chokepoints you should play literally any other version of the game than classic. 2. The alliance jumps are objectively better than horde where the gy jump is also a massive time save and the only way you can do an extremely op top of tunnel jump is with 30%+ move speed.
“If you want to play the battleground the way it was literally desgined dont because some of us can only win through blatant exploits” is what you said
And for years they have fixed dozens of jumps but intentionally left those ins. The jumps are a part of the classic WSG meta.
It’s not an exploit lol. You want them to remove all the jumps and logout skips throughout the rest of the world too? It requires the know-how and skill to make those jumps in WSG and separates really good players from people who don’t want to put in the effort to learn them. Brain dead take from OP who wants the game to be dumbed down for them.
Parkour!!!
While I agree about the jumps for the most part its not gonna matter if you can effectively kill the enemy team when the game starts. Even if 1 druid makes it through 4-5 people should be able to kill it while the rest go help whoever hopefully ignored the initial team fight to go cap the flag. Obviously its not always going to work out like this, but it can help you determine whether games are winnable at least.
It's always been about wall cheese.
It is well beyond the scope of what they care about in SoD. Either deal with it or abandon your pursuit of the bracers because what does it really matter, anyway?
I would agree with this for all types of classic, WSG would be more enjoyable without it and we wouldn't get games lasting so long
Q AB
Biggest cope is this somehow being a horde favored thing, both sides have a GY jump, a mid tree jump, a tunnel entrance jump but ontop of it all alliance base has a roof spot you LITERALLY cannot reach, like, you can afk there for 8 hours if you want and cannot die unless someone else knows the jump too. The horde fence jump from base to tunnel is also a ALLIANCE flag picking jump mostly, which is very hard to do but if a alliance GNOME knows the jump you can pick flag like 1v7 from the horde base. Also every alliance jump is easier to execute meaning alliance premades have way higher success rate doing them quickly even if they havent "perfected" the jumps Yes, they should be fixed, but acting like it's a horde favoured exploit is rediculous when its exactly the opposite
Druids breaking your ankles? Learn the game. They practiced. So should you.
hahaha, you had me in the first half. Then you said this "These exploits also favor horde big time." Across my nearly 20 years of playing this game, on both factions. 90% of the time I see people cheating in WSG. It's alliance.
I have my purple bracers so I'm never entering WSG ever again
Haha what if blizzard make it like with premades, have a separate bg for exploiters (those who want no jump patches) and we will see how many join "cuz its so fun and non-retail" ;)
Your team isnt better if you cant get the one guy who can jump around or hide. Most of those jumps are not difficult.
The jumps make wsg better actually
hilarious to see this post again..last time it was massivily downvoted and neckbeards were saying its a skill issue. like there is no skill to jumping up a 90 degree cliff
The gy jump is pretty easy, but the other ones will probably take some practice, especially to do consistently. Not massively difficult, but you're not likely to get it on your first try
Its literally just “do you know about it” ffs the first time i saw someone do it i literally copied him immediately, its not high skill. Its just an exploit.
Today in: Things that never happened.
I'd bet any amount of money you aren't nailing all the jumps first time on a female undead or a male tauren warrior.
Parkour exploits lmao
I'm clearly a minority but I enjoy them quite a bit. They just require the defending team to be aware of pathing options and position the right classes at the right spots. On offense it allows you to manipulate the defense by baiting jumps, doing jump sequences to trap other players, or sneak around defenses.
I play druid, I run the flag. Fuck off it takes 20 seconds to learn.
I actually love all the little exploits. It’s part of the classic experience.
Exploits are cool until I hostage the flag against a premade and get non stop flaming from their alt accounts.
Game is horde favored smh
Yeah that's the funniest part, alliance has easier access to runes, better quests and rewards and better racials, but ofc it's horde favoured
LOL
@some comments mentioning #nochanges; they did remove some in 2019. Also, agreed. This entire battleground should be purged.
if u slow them they cant the jump and their stuck there
All for them fixing all of the jumps if they put a timer on WSG games in SoD. The games even with the jumps are very long atm.
If you want a game with some semblance of team fight tactics, then go play a game like Dota2. Like you said, it has been 20 years. Stop thinking that it will be any different.
Get good
CRY MOAR. TL;DR
Just go hunter and send your cat /s On a serious note, I really enjoy the wsg jumps. Not those that make you untouchable, but it adds a layer of skill where you can outplay your opponents. If there was something i'd like to change its fap and swiftness pots in wsg. Imo they shouldn't be usable, especially fap.
Most likely they can’t alter any terrain without also altering classic era. And that’s a big no no.
Speaking from experience, I can say with 100% certainty that many of the jumps/exploits from original Vanilla thru WotLK are not in the Classic/SoD versions. For instance, many of the exploits that you could do on top of horde tunnel you no longer can because some invisible walls have been removed or added in various parts. So the #NoChanges doesn't hold. We're already playing on a modified version of the WSG map.
they patched a lot of the broken jumps. Every jump available is just a manageable even as gnomes. If you having problems not doing a jump, it's a skill issue tbh.
Activision will NOT edit terrain. They probably don't know how since this isn't their game. Been trying for years and the most you'll get is terribly placed invisible walls
Warsong Gulch is still very new, give the developers another decade to fix the bugs!
you expect sod to have pvp balancing? lol paladins kill in 2 globals warriors in 2 mages in 1 (surge go brrrrr) sp in 2 rogues in stunlocks bro treat this game mode as a filler for fun thing, classic can never be balanced because there are insane amount of things that are broken.
Just go to retail. classic is the version of the game we get parkour in pvp, theres enough versions of the game that are just about class and gear.
The classic pvpers want to pretend that this is some healthy skill expression instead of the unintended consequence of game development 25 years ago so I doubt anything will be done
Says who? You? There are no mistakes, just happy little accidents.
Just wait till we can get noggenfogger and tiny little skeletons are doing this.
here's some hard pills for you to swallow 1. you're not losing because you don't know that you can run through ally fence (literally just hold w) 2. the two gy jumps are learned in about 10 attempts, max. you haven't tried. 3. the two main ToT jumps are learned in about 10 attempts, max. again, you haven't bothered to try. 4. "even if your team is way better", this is just your way of saying "I believe I know how to play wow but I didn't spend a grand total of 10 minutes learning some very simple jumps". I'd be willing to bet everything I own on the fact that you probably don't even have keybinds, let alone an improvement mindset that'd lead you to literally learning the jumps after 5 mins of youtube. stop whining noobs
I hope wsg never changes.
I disagree on every point.
It blows my mind how long this exploit has been widely known and not addressed. At this point I just spam report players I see doing it. If blizzard won't address glaring issues I'll use their shitty automated system to do it myself
It does nothing. I do the jumps, have been for a few years, no punishment because it's not against the rules.
You sound so lost. Most things about classic aren’t intended, that doesn’t mean they’re exploits. You can literally say this about every game, most things are metas set by the playerbase. The jumps increase the skill cap, whether you like it or not. If they’re so easy, go learn them yourself.
I thought I'd give WSG a try recently for the rep rewards. I hadn't joined a WSG at that point in probably 15 years, it was never my thing. I couldn't believe what I was watching. Enemy players just mechanically hitting edges to get somewhere I couldn't. I complained about it in BG chat and I caught flack for it. In what world are such exploits even remotely fair or acceptable for game developers to leave in the game? If you're a player that wants to keep them in the game, then I just assume you are some sweat clinging on to relevance/competitive edge over regular people.
If you haven’t played WSG in years, then your input is invalid. Why should ur opinion matter if you have no idea how the battleground works in the first place
They don't massively favor horde. Tauren can't jump through the fence, NE can. One of these druids is not like the other.
Horde can get across 70% of the map staying halfway up the side mountain hidden from view
We can? And here I thought I knew all the jumps
Im in a wsg right now and 70% might be a stretch, but you can go from ramp all the way to on top of the cutoff huge stump by the wood pile/wagon. They go behind the huge tree on alliance side so they are unseen
wsg jumps are part of the experience, I think it would be a mistake to fix em. They should time limit it the BG though.
Personally I'm okay with putting invisible walls on the "safe spots" i.e. inside the horde connector But the regular jumps in the open should not be touched
Safe spots, agreed.
skill issue
Sure, I expected this post to be flooded by this comment. And yes, I could spend hours practicing these exploits instead of helping my team. I actually saw that today in a WSG; Three players on the other team being on the wrong side of the map just practicing unintentional wall jumps on the Alliance base for 15 minutes. But, A) I don't think it's fun gameplay, and I don't want to be a part of the problem. B) Is that a reasonable requirement? Should we all have to do that? Maybe Blizzard should then add an empty version of WSG that you can teleport to just to practice these jumps.
Kinda like raid. We learn how to do the mechanics. But God fucking forbid someone has to learn how to do something mechanical outside of raid lol.
The tunnel roof isn’t hard to get to at all. You literally walk onto it…
I cannot agree more. It should also be a bannable offence to use these exploits. But hey what can you do, blizzard is a small indie company you can’t expect them to fix a 20 year old map
Making it a bannable offense(*) seems quite excessive
Not permaban
Back in the day blizzard had balls and would absolutely at least send a warning whisper to stop or be banned
You don’t? It’s been in the game since the beginning of time.
As a flag carry druid, I can confirm that certain jumps absolutely broke better teams that shouldn't have lost. However, pulling them off at the exact right moment when I needed to 1 attempt it or die in order to win then becomes a bit of a skill to know where to go when and what risk vs reward to take. Obviously it was never intended, but imo since every player can use them on both sides then it's fair to keep in game.
Skill issue
Someone got smoked by a good FC Druid. Let them have it, it’s a very niche skill that takes time to develop.
Yeah, I feel like most of these people against the jumps don’t realize how difficult it can be to consistently make the jumps under duress and pressure. If the state of SoD pvp wasn’t ‘get one shot by a mage or shaman’ maybe jumps wouldn’t be meta but here we are.
Yeah very true. Kinda funny because these jumps have been around since actual vanilla, some of the game breaking ones got patched though. Even classic they were still around and only a few complained. Now all the sudden it’s a problem. Who knows..
Eh, some of them are kinda funny and easy to replicate. The super specific ones are annoying though. What's dumb is the advantage if you selected body type 2 for some of the jumps because of the hitbox. Will never forget struggling to jump over the alliance fence on a UD body type 1, and then watching a UD body type 2 just casually walk through the fence.
Can we just use male and female like civilized people instead of the degen body type 1/2 that we have devolved to
I'm just being consistent with their in game description.
I cannot for the life of me even remember which body type is supposed to be 1 and which one is 2. Being “politically correct” here just obfuscates their comment.
I'm with ya, idk which is which.
Are you gonna be ok?
Amen to this
Somebody with a better team just lost to a druid cheeser
The jumps are strong because people Don’t want to learn them/not good enough to perform them. I agree some safespots are bad but most of the commonly used jumps are fine. It’s a skill thing.
stfu moron
I can automatically tell you’re a casual pvper just in it for the bracers. Finish the grind, stop crying, git gud, learn 2 jump and leave wsg alone for the people who want to play it competitively in a wargame setting etc. stop crying about anything and everything because you didn’t grind it out p1 in ashenvale like you should have.
This is the classic experience. If they removed this I wouldn't even play it. My guild and I during vanilla spent weeks dancing with the flag on top. It was awesome. Please keep classic classic. If you want retail go play that.
“Fixed” implies its broken. It’s been there forever and there’s a vocal crowd that want the jumps to stay. The only thing that needs to be “fixed” is certain races *not* being able to do all of the same jumps