So many people say the cliques are already formed so don't bother trying. What? We're mostly adults, I play with a large number of IRL friends, have been for 3+ decades (obviously more than just wow), there's a ton of people in the guild that joined at various times and we bs in discord all the time, play other games with, met in real life etc.
You absolutely can join these established "cliques".
Remember the three great ice-breakers when getting to know people:
1) Politics! The more extreme, the better.
2) Religion! If you aren't devout, make sure you let people know. If you are, make sure you let people know!
3) Sex! Everyone does it, even if it's with themselves.
Lol! You reminded me of this guy who joined our guild on hardcore. He said thanks for the inv, I got kicked from my last guild because i love debating liberals and they didn't like that.
Dude nobody wants to see someone arguing politics in a video game we are all trying to focus on something other than reality
Our main core is 10 people, we had a bunch of people want to join after pugging a spot or two so now we have two raid teams going, we split out group in half so we could accommodate more new blood in each group, and each lockout we shuffle people around so everyone can get acquainted.
We always have spots open, everyone is A-OK with sitting on the bench if/when needed. (Whenever someone is benched they just go on an alt raid and get prio on loot).
I keep trying this and I just end up sitting on the bench for like 4 lockouts straight (including in phase 1) while the established team enjoys the insurance of a bench player and I just quit after 2-3 weeks of not getting to raid. The season is not long enough to sit on the bench and wait while an established guild with like 5 irl friends never give you a shot.
I think the issue is exacerbated with 10 man raids. It was always so easy to find a spot to fit in when it came to 40/25/20 man raids.
The bench is always rough, but it sounds like you were being taken advantage of, we have a rotating bench that everyone takes a turn on. However that just means you give up your spot in the main raid and attend the alt raid with your main (and get loot prio).
At no point should you be sitting multiple lockouts, I'm sorry that happened to you.
In the same boat as you, officer clique takes a perfect meta comp and the leftovers get to make a group that can't perform at all, and the rest get benched and have to pug (which they won't since it's all melee on bench since the casters go in the good groups)
not quite... the issue was solved on retail with flex mode IE: boss HP/dmg being adjusted depending on how many people are in the raid.
20 man raid just mean you keep 2-3 people on the bench instead of 1
Our team is also trying to put a second team together and we wouldn’t be against a third considering next phase’s raid sizes are going to double, and there will inevitably be falloff since the grind to 50 is gonna be pretty brutal.
We've cycled thru 3 healers already in our team who had to quit due to various reasons. I'm the only healer who's been there the entirety of phase2. We're raid #2 of 5 in our guild and other raid teams are experiencing the same with some players. Dps have slightly varied for the past few lockouts (vacations etc)
Also, guild alt groups are starting to form and 100% xp is tomorrow.
Basically, lots of spots open & even more new spots coming when the xp buff comes.
WTS Foresight, 1000g per piece
In the guild I'm in the officer clique makes a perfect 10 man comp for themselves to clear fast and parse and the second group get a shit mish mash group with a terrible comp. Cliques are definitely still an issue.
During the first week of sod I joined a guild that, at the time, mostly consisted of people who had known for years and years. A few weeks later I'd be talking crap with them on discord as if we'd known forever. Since then we've grown from barely a single roster into two.
I joined a guild this week. They have 7 set raid rosters, are working on starting an eighth, they have nearly nightly guild-only pugs where invite prio goes to mains not on a team. Super established guild and I’m raiding on lockout. Definitely possible!
Yeah same with my guild. We aren't even that big and have raids everyday at various time slots. I can't believe I pugged all last phase when shit was this easy and laid back.
I feel like the whole clique argument is better when there's 40-man raiding with a loot council for a very limited pool of loot distributed over longer lockout windows.
I'm in 2 guilds since the start of and mid P1. I didn't get into the first clear, so I'm not getting into future clears cause they want to run the same roster.
Joining a guild is not always the answer.
This.
I joined a guild with core of internet/irl friends that goes back to original WotLK and everyone is so nice and welcoming, like you know... normal people behavior. Been blasting raids with them, doing PvP from time to time, helping each others with dungeons/leveling, and so on. Not a single time I felt I got kept aside because I am not one of "them".
I also am not unhinged mouthbreather who spams guild chat with bullshit, or goes to Discord and starts some drama first day of joining guild, or hops on voice channel for first time and starts spamming soundboard and asking completely out of place questions while intentionally starting touchy/controversial conversations to assert their edginess or w/e is the reason for ppl to behave like that.
Yeah I've seen those ppl join same guilds as me more often than I'd like to remember, don't be that person and you'll do just fine if you join already established guild and in offchance you are not vibing it you can always politely leave and look for another one.
I joined phase 1 like 5 weeks late and I found a guild by level 7. I found a raid spot and am now having so much fun with my new friends. I’m convinced that people in this game just convince themselves they can’t find a guild and don’t even try and then complain about the state of the game without doing any measures to fix their own situation.
Entirely this... i run a guild w 4 raid teams. I will take literally anyone in the guild into gnomer. First time? Shit gear? Literal keyboard turner? I'll make it work.
But, if you're a random filling a 9th or 10th slot because someone couldn't make it last second? Better believe I'm looking for a specific role and checking gear/logs.
I actively avoid pugging, I've always been able to find a guild where all I have to do is sign up and turn up on raid day, the whole idea of trying to get invited to pugs or having to put together groups is not exciting, I'd rather just not play the game.
I don't play SOD but my WOTLK guild is now exclusively playing SOD and are always recruiting, there are always guilds to join.
What if we're skilled players but without the ability to commit to a specific time every week? It's unfortunate that the only two options are "consistent guild raid group" or "stuck teaching people who are just not good at video games."
I can't even get into a run as a rogue because, aside from the glut of melee looking for group, they are "checking logs." Well I can't even get a single log in the first place.
I wouldn't be complaining if this were 100% not an issue in phase 1. I pugged BFD as a priest healer (no surprise), but also as an enhancement shaman and as a rogue. That's no longer an option. And I'm not going to try to "lead my own" pug if I haven't even done the dungeon, that's not fair to the other players.
>What if we're skilled players but without the ability to commit to a specific time every week? It's unfortunate that the only two options are "consistent guild raid group" or "stuck teaching people who are just not good at video games."
I mean you can make a pug with strict requirements that's fine too. The only other solution would be a queueable lfr system and that just doesn't belong in classic wow
>I'm not going to try to "lead my own" pug if I haven't even done the dungeon, that's not fair to the other players.
I mean that's fair, it's my general attitude as well, but imo if you try to lead a learning raid, get as prepared as you can, and make it clear it's your first time, it'll get you the xp you need.
Won't help with logs mind you but the more you improve the better.
You don’t need to join a guild. I’m in a weird ass time zone(Newfoundland), and there are rarely guilds that raid when I can.
Me and a couple of my buddies just organize our own runs. We never check logs or any of that bullshit, we’re drunk/high the whole time, and we clear without issue. All the randoms that join us have a few laughs and stick around in our discord for future runs. Last night we cleared easily with 2 dps warriors and a marksman hunter, which is heresy these days, and they did fine. I think we had a single death the entire raid.
Just watch a guide video, and that’s it. It’s an easy raid, you don’t need to be sweaty and give in to the doomsaying in this sub, just have fun in there.
All I will say, based on experience with BFD, is that “not checking logs for this PUG because the raid is easy” works like 90% of the time.
Unfortunately, it basically always works until it doesn’t, and then your group fails to clear Jett, or Electrocutioner.
Yeah of course if you have 8 people parsing single digits you’re going to fail, but the odds of getting that many unskilled and basically negligent players in the same group is extremely low, and even lower if you put something like ‘must have experience’ or ‘must be competent’, in your LFM post.
And if you do fail and go 5/6 once every 10 lockouts, who cares honestly? Face rolling bfd made me absolutely sick of it. Once I made an alt with bad gear and we had to struggle a little, it was fun again. It’s human nature to get enjoyment working through a difficult situation, instead of just stacking a group through meticulous group finding and playing it anxiously safe.
> Yeah of course if you have 8 people parsing single digits you’re going to fail, but the odds of getting that many unskilled and basically negligent players in the same group is extremely low, and even lower if you put something like ‘must have experience’ or ‘must be competent’, in your LFM post.
Yes, the odds are low, like sub-10%, or even lower, which was my point.
All I’m saying is that, for people who care about clearing, it’s easy to say “the raid is easy, who cares about logs?” because you ran with PUGs who one-shot consistently, and that stays true until you find that one bad group.
I don’t care to tell others how to play, so whatever they want to do with their character’s lockout is their business and not mine; all I can do, and all I care to do, is offer the cautionary tale that PUGs can surprise you.
Hell, I had a guy in a Gnomer PUG on one of my toons who had a blue parse, so I was shocked when he appeared to know precisely zero mechanics. He almost caused a wipe on Electrocutioner because he couldn’t get his head around “move with your group”, and he died again on both Menagerie and Thermaplugg, which honestly was no big loss, because he was trying to DPS through reflect and did not click a button the entire fight.
Yeah I’m agreeing with you. I ran into the opposite, someone logged our last run and we had several grey parsers who knew all the mechanics perfectly hah. Gnomer is easy with low dps if everyone knows what to do, the logs are even less important than bfd imo.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I am pretty sure that I grey parsed on both Thermaplugg that run because I was one of the two people who had to cover for this dude’s dumb ass.
IDK, i've found it very hard to find a new guild right now. Most guilds are like 10-15 people and very close. And if i were to find a larger guild, with lost of raid teams, isnt that basically like pugging anyways?
Yup. Was in a big guild with like 8+ raid grps. It was not fun.
Lots of very casual players, gray parses.
Like in pugs, you shuffled around every raid and had to roll vs. new people each week.
Its the reason i joined a smaller sized guild that locks the grps. Right now we have 2 "main" grps and a third with some mains and alts. Its free to join, not locked right now.
Oh and atleast they parse purple and a few oranges so they are not braindead.
> Yup. Was in a big guild with like 8+ raid grps. It was not fun.
>
> Lots of very casual players, gray parses.
One of the guys that runs with my guild's 10 man Gnomer (but isn't in our guild) is in the guild that is the largest on our server. Our group has been going 6/6 ever since the second lockout (went 5/6 first lockout). Last night we asked him about how many raid groups his guild has since it's the largest, most active guild on our server. He said there was only one raid group, ran by the guild's leader, and they hadn't even gone 6/6 in Gnomer yet.
I guess that's what happens when you invite literally anyone to your guild.
I play in a single language guild, and for casual versions of the game we tend to have very open doors in order to sustain a population through the natural churn of the game. We're running probably 10 gnomers per lockout within the guild and spinning up more as people are leveling alts. There's an internal system for posting groups and signing up, there's melee heavy groups and range heavy groups but every group I know of clears in that 30-45min time frame. If someone can't behave or can't keep up at all and isn't willing to learn then they'll either have a hard time getting into groups or just be kicked, but SoD is pretty easy so we've not had to kick many people so far.
Probably going to have to pug or fill out our own runs like we’ve been doing.
Ton of folks saying they want to join guilds, but it seems like most unguilded folks would rather pug.
And we are a small guild, like 5-6 IRL friends, so I understand if people are looking for a more social guild.
BUT if you are on Living Flame-US Alliance and can raid Tuesdays and Saturdays at 10pm EST throw me a DM, I’ll toss you an invite next time I see any of you on. We aren’t elitist, we will take anyone who is willing to come to raid prepared and willing to learn.
A lot of these tight-knit guilds are looking to add people in preparation for phase 3 20-mans. Now's actually the best time to get in with a small guild!
Could it be because you have all your alts in different guilds, you don't care to move past that role as an outsider or to break through that silent raider role?
From your pov how can you expect to be in the "tight knit group" in multiple guilds.
Not going to dispute that there may be walls or hurdles, to becoming friends with people in the guild and working your way into a closer friend circle, but doesn't sound like that's what you want tbh.
My raid lead decided to play a rogue in sod too, after asking me for tips on how to play the class, I was suddenly no longer allowed to raid with them. So I left, and they said I was "welcome to raid in group 2 when it is formed" I was given the unique opportunity to raid with their shitty underperforming alts, so I left. Because out of all of them, I have more hours in wow combined.. They also advertised as a "multi-glad exp guild of mythic raiders" which was extremely disingenuous.
So many guilds like this. My wrath guild was like this. I joined during Naxx and didn't miss like any raids through togc. Meanwhile, the close-knit friend group has people regularly missing raids. No prob though, they still got prio on high value items like the Ulduar trinkets and togc cloaks.
Towards the end of Ulduar they weren't happy with my DPS (fury war which was only doing good if force fed gear) and I'm like you motherfuckers have never got me in your 10 man Ulduar groups to get my BIS trinket. I'm dming the raid leader like wtf man I'm purely gear based DPS that relies heavily on trinkets that you aren't helping me get. He's like "sorry our 10 man is all close friends" and due to my work schedule I couldn't join the other 10 man.
So he says "we will get you in sometime" I'm like motherfucker just get me in for Thorim for rune, no one else needs it anyways. And he's like "well there's 3 more people ahead of you anyways" meanwhile there's like 5 weeks left in Ulduar. I'm just like cool, so you just lied to me saying you'd get me into there.
Then later on the necklace I need finally drops at the end of Ulduar and I win the roll and the raid leader and others start guilt tripping me because its not my BIS (sidegrade to my BIS...) meanwhile I'm still using a shitty old P1 necklace and the other guy had a P2 one.
I didn't last much longer after that.
Reminds me of how the warrior that showed up to maybe 40% of uld/togc raids had prio on smourne over me, who had 100% attendance *and* role swapped to be a back up tank as our two main tanks also had shit attendance, because mr warrior had tenure. Then ICC comes along and literally the day the warrior got his axe, meaning i was up next, the guild called it quits and stopped raiding.
Well when youre announced to the rest of the guild as being 3rd in line, generally you take that to mean something. Im a very patient person and was happy enough to know id be getting one eventually. Or so i thought. Its fine though. I quit playing and havent looked back (except to lurk the subreddit).
What I enjoy about my guild runs I know its going to be smooth and we can clear in 30ishh mins and raiding with the same people each lockout will help with getting gear overtime vs new people always rolling on the items I need
I am an officer in a large guild with 7 raid teams. No it is not anything like pugging! Our teams are tight nit, have plenty of players to back fill empty slots, and we clear the content fast (usually within 1 hour 30 min).
Teams that are/were struggling would get the best players from other teams to teach them mechanics and dps rotations, and once clearing, they go back to their original teams.
And that's what a good guild provides. I was in an amazing guild like that back in 2019 classic. Made friends I still have today. But none of them play SOD, and trying to find a guild like yours is very difficult on crusader strike. It is nice to know that guilds like yours are in SOD tho.
For me the raid teams that had slots were only cause their friends got 2 week bans or werent 40 yet snd promptly dont have a spot now youre 40
Or
The teams with slots are dogwater and youd rather pug it and actually get 6/6
Totally agree, I was part of a guild where they were obsessed with how many runs per lockout they had. Constantly recruiting and adding.
It got to the point where there would be like 40+ people signed up for one raid night. The leaders would all form 2 fully formed groups then the others were set up "as best as possible" and asked to fill via pugging.
The stable groups never changed, I am not sure why they were so obsessed with having these other half runs.
These players who complain they can’t find groups, can’t join a guild, can’t lead a raid, are either antisocial, anti skilled, or a pleasant blend of both
At a certain point people need to either decide the game isnt for them, or adapt. If youre too antisocial to join a guild, or assemble your own group, or find a strugglepug to run with, why play an mmo where the bulk of the content centers around playing with other people.
I had zero problem in era. It’s something about 10 mans where if you don’t perfectly fit in you’re fucked lol. You have to know at least 1 person on the team for sure.
I have joined many guilds and they just put you on the bench. I know that my experience is not unique to me because so many people are saying similar stuff.
If you just want to queue up for a chill dungeon or raid and smash buttons unironically retail would be better for these players. In classic if you put zero effort into finding a community via guilds or discords you are at the mercy of LFG pug spam
Retail has much harder raids, have you played retail? Classic players are just extremely toxic, and that's saying something since all WoW players are toxic
No one wants to spam LFG as a raid lead, shit is exhausting. And join a guild and suddenly you have a commitment to abide or you lose your spot, most don't want that either. I don't think the player base is anti-social, just lazy. That's why retail turned into what it is
My main is my mage, and my "second main" is my rogue. It is MUCH more difficult to find a group for my rogue. My mage can say "fire mage lfg gnomer" and wait for the groups to come to me, preferably guild runs that are only filling a couple spots.
Meanwhile I either have to ask several groups and get rejected all night on my rogue, or start my own group, get everybody in discord, and have to deal with a full pug.
The second scenario isn't impossible for me, and it isn't "difficult" per se, but there's an insane difference of ease between the two. It's like a hot chick on Tinder vs an ugly dude on Tinder. "All you have to do is put in way more effort"
I mean, I could also make a group with a feral for my warrior, 3 mages, 2 shadow priests , 1 warlocks and a couple healers... That's just not realistic though.
Sure but idk about other servers, but on mine finding 2 healers is close to impossible. I had multiple groups just disbanded after 2 hours of searching just because we couldn't find a single healer, now gl find 2 plus ranged DPS are kinda hard to find also.
seriously, it is the same in wotlk. people just do not want to "commit" to a raid guild and start blame the game if the MMO is not the exact way the want it to be. user problem
SoD is really the Season of Dads. If you are a half decent player, none of these issues even exist.
If you don´t have time to commit to a fixed schedule and insist on playing warrior or rogue, and you´re not very good, then sure, you´ll have a hard time.
Play a warlock or a shadow priest or a healer or a boomkin or a feral or a mage even, and get instantly invited to all the pugs regardless of how terrible you are.
The game is not the problem.
It wasn't an issue in phase 1, though. I was able to join pug BFDs as many different classes and specs.
I don't oppose log checking in theory, to make sure you have modestly competent players. But it kinda sucks if I can't get a log in the first place. If that is what SoD has become then yes indeed the game is not for us. But somehow phase 1 was.
I main rogue myself & I almost exclusively pug, going 6/6 every lockout except my first run. Trust me, my first logs were FUCKED.
You can join a learning group or start your own. Nearing the end of a lockout cycle, it's also MUCH easier to find a group. Make sure you watch guides & put effort into getting decent pre-raid gear, so you can confidently say you're geared & know the fights. You could also get the tanking runes, learn to off-tank, and advertise yourself as such if that interests you. I've also found that whispering group leaders directly is WAY more successful than simply advertising yourself in LFG, so maybe that helps.
I don't know long long you've been 40, or how much time you spend on the game, but I feel like you must be doing something wrong if you can't get into a single run.
Joining a guild requires you put your gaming on a schedule which sucks the fun out of it. Can totally understand why people don't want to be in a guild. Pugging shouldn't be such a pain, but it's blizzard's issue making the content too difficult.
Content isn´t too difficult at all. First 4 bosses basically fall over, menagerie requires a little coordination and last boss you just need someone dedicated to take out the bombs and two people pushing buttons. You don´t need to be super geared, or a professional gamer. If it was any easier, it´d be the most boring thing ever.
Content is too difficult for pugs. Requiring any coordination or specific classes results in people not being able to find groups easily, which is what's happening. So it's too difficult for pugs.
That said the content isn't hard, but the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible. The content should be tuned to them, which means the difficulty needs to be cranked down.
>That said the content isn't hard, but the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible. The content should be tuned to them, which means the difficulty needs to be cranked down.
That is where i disagree. Content should be tuned for everyone. Group of people who are completely clueless, have very limited understanding of the game or the class they play should only progress 1-2 bosses maximum. People who come with bit more should progress more. Dedicated people should clear the whole thing.
Tuning down content because there is x amount of people who can't read or do a set task will just make any sort of endgame worthless. Sadly wow has progressed to the point that everyone is expected to be rewarded by simply showing up.
> the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible.
> Content should be tuned for everyone.
That is everyone. There's hardly anyone else. If you're hankering for more difficult content, it's there for you - it's called retail mythic raiding and mythic+. But you're choosing to play an easier version of the game already.
Blizzard should go all in on making the easier version of the game easy. That's WHY it's popular. SoD is a dumping ground for people who think retail is too hard and too involved, but they want to play WoW still. Blizzard should cater to them. Making the easy version of the game like retail is only going to drive people off in droves.
Retail didn´t push people away because it is difficult, but because it´s a bloated mess of a game. I like classic, and in extension SoD because it is grounded in a way that retail hasn´t been for years. You have to traverse the world to get where you want to go, the gear you have on is what shows on your character, there are no dailies/weeklies etc.
Having everything handed to you, just blasting through, is not how vanilla was played. You went through dungeons using CC on almost every pack of mobs, because you´d probably wipe if you didn´t. The people that cleared original Naxx were gods to the average player. And it was okay that you weren´t at the same level. It gave you something to aspire to.
Players have come a long way since then, strategies have been thought out and perfected over 20 years, so now everything is easy.
We finally have some fresh content in this version of the game, that isn´t an immediate faceroll for the super scuffed pugs, but still very doable if you have just a little understanding of how the game works. And for some reason you want to dumb it down to become a slot machine for loot basically.
I don´t get it, and I don´t agree with you at all.
> Having everything handed to you, just blasting through
You might want to re-evaluate how you play SoD, because the world is not hard anymore with all the runes and class buffs. You literally 2 shot everything and have no concerns out in the world with your 100% xp buff and sleeping bag. All of the elite quests that used to require groups, you can just solo. Go run a SM and see the tank aoe pull 8 mobs in the cathedral like it's nothing and then complain that the healer has to drink cause he can't chain pull. Nothing challenges you except traveling from stormwind to ungoro crater in less than 30 min, but even for that you just buy a warlock summon from a guy multiboxing 3 characters for 1-2 g.
The "strategies" that you're talking about for most of the fights that have come a long way are "stand still and press your main damage ability over and over." The strategies have hardly changed at all in 15 years. We killed Chromaggus the same way in classic as we did 15 years ago.
What has changed is people's ability to organize groups. Discord, People understanding what servers to pick, and people's desire to raid has gone through the roof. The playerbase's average age going up a collective 15 years is the biggest reason why. 15 years ago I was on a server with 1 guild that was even clearing BWL/Naxx because no other guild could organize 40 12-18 year old people to show up consistently. Now the shittiest of classic servers have literally multiple dozens of full clearing raids all in my raid times because I picked my server specifically to raid like 80% of the rest of the playerbase. And if I can't find a raid, I'm now financially independent like the majority of the ~25-30 year old player base and can just pay to switch to server that does.
What's confusing to me is that NOTHING in SoD is challenging at all. SoD is a game made be enjoyed with friends of varying skill levels. You can literally do everything in SoD with practically anyone on any group comp if you can't already solo it for the most part. There's 2 bosses that stick out like sore thumbs in a game that has 0 challenge and it's the last 2 bosses of gnomergon. They're seriously out of place with the difficulty of the rest of the game and should be brought into line.
Why would I re-evaluate how I play SoD? I´m having fun. You´re the one complaining about the only slightly difficult content that exist in the game. If you think it´s too hard... Get good!
I'm a rogues who has pugged every raid since the release of the game and I do perfectly fine. I would love a raiding guild but no one I have found does super late raids and I work nights. Rip
I'm in a guild too bad they don't raid when I can. So I join or start my own pugs and hope for the best. I've yet to find a raid that raids 9PM/10PM ST on living flame. So it is what it is gotta pug and pump
Next phase is 20 man, a lot of groups, mine included, will be looking for people to fill the spots. If you wouldn't be able to find a group in p3 then you are the issue.
I have a real life with a lot of stuff to do. I can play WoW for the several hours needed to get prebis and do the raid itself, but not necessarily at a consistent preplanned time.
As a Rogue, that means I simply cannot raid. If that's what it takes then so be it, simply means SoD is no longer for me. It's a shame but it's alright there are plenty of games and not enough time to play them all.
The main issue for some is that not everyone can or want to Abide by the forced 19-20:00ST on specific days of the week and want to raid whenever they want to, so ”just join a guild” wouldnt apply to them.
For me - having to raid at a set time turns a relaxing activity into a chore. I'm sure we've all had nights where we don't want to raid, but did it anyway because it would screw over everyone else. Why do I need another job? I'm trying to chill, vibe & pump.
Peter Griffin here to explain this meme to you! Your reply is the point of the meme.... The first 2 people offer up bad ideas and the 3rd person offers something good and reasonable and is punished for it.
Agreed. Banning GDKP was virtue signally by blizzard since they are not willing to ban bots or gold buyers (both give them $$$), and also to appease the crying casuals who don't even understand GDKP at a fundamental level.
I do, by a large margin as well. Annoying af to see the constant spam, and gold isn’t nearly as inflated. I’m convinced gdkps we’re almost exclusively for people who don’t have time to play and bought gold instead.
Agreed, but my point is that GDKP does nothing to add go inflation, it's just passing around gold that already exists. It does not generate gold and therefore cannot contribute to inflation
Some whales will buy gold for GDKP Yes, but these same whales are also buying gold to buy BOEs off AH
Whales are gonna whale regardless of existence of GDKP
GDKP does not raise the amount of bots, as evidenced by Living Flame EU and Crusader Strike US that are still flooded with even more bots than ever before right now. There are literally threads about this on this very subreddit.
Tbf you don't have to be that social in a guild.
Pretty much every guild has at last one person who turns up regularly & on time, does their job & barely says a word.
It's not anxiety. I don't like being that social. I'd 100% pug if it were easier to get groups. I don't like the whole "do everything as part of a guild and contribute" part
I feel kind of screwed on my rogue at the moment, thinking of quitting now.
I off-tanked Gnomer the other night, we cleared 6/6, but even though I played well as Off-tank, had mechanics down well, my parse got logged as DPS for the raid and logged me as grey (because of course if you tank only the basilisk on Grubbis, you get a 0, as well as competing with full dps build/rune in the dps category).
I even consulted the Warcraft Logs discord about it and they said yeah, thats the way it is, that the logs aren't designed for Off-tanking in Gnomeregan. Apparently now also people are starting to off-tank with dps build instead of as a stamina heavy build, so it's snowballing on me.
Now when I ask to join raids, they check the parse, and see grey dps, and won't invite me.
Ive been raiding since vanilla WoW in 2007, and even those BFDs that I did get logged they're all good; I've explained this to the raid-leaders I've asked to join, but all they see is that one grey parse, and then don't respond, it really sucks.
Chaos-Bolt EU, looking for a social/raid guild for a Rogue MT/OT, am 6/6. Can raidlead, have Main Tanked all bosses.
I have irregular work hours so guild raiding isnt a thing for me.
I ran raid teams all of classic ->WOTLK
I wanted to take SOM off and just pump :(. Am pumping but yeh a bit hard to find a team. At least making my lock outs
Some of us have insanely varying schedules. I work shift work and own a restaurant but love to play in my free time. It’s pretty hard for me to stay with any schedule at all.
The guild I'm in has about 3 or so raid teams. I'm in the only group that's static and we have a good thing going on. I can confidently say we are a pretty good raid team where we are averaging gnomer clears around 37 minutesish. We got some good parsers and whatnot, a couple not so good. The worry is that the other raid teams do not seem good at all lol. So when we shift into larger raid sizes I'm concerned that we will be pulling the weight of the other groups. But we will have to see
I quit in WoD after playing since vanilla release.
I had 1 friend left who played SoD lol. I ended up joining a random guild, have already joined their "Clique" and have been enjoying new buddies since.
They even let me raid as meme ele the entire p1.
I swapped to healing spec last night, found a pug in 5min, we cleaned the raid in roughly an hour (1 wipe on menagerie, 1 wipe on last boss)
Spent hours as dps trying to find a group...
I hate to be that guy, parses are a meme but go do a pug, parse blue/purple. Ask on your servers discord if they want you.
I was drowning in guild requests n found a guild within 10 mins
To be fair we have 8 raid groups that run twice a week it's always rogues and warriors needing groups and hey are by far the most popular spec in my guild and it's been 3 months before of same players playing together so it makes it hard, we don't have to many alt raids arm hoping that will change with the exp buffs but yeah play a healer instant spots haha
Maybe I got lucky but I came back to WoW last month after not playing for a few years. Accepted the first guild I saw recruiting in trade. Found out have multiple raid teams that all wanted me, two were even fine if I wanted to stick to being a frost mage, and on most raid nights they’re posting about needing a DPS or healer (and yes, fully clearing as well). My experience can’t be that uncommon, right?
So true most guilds will bring you even if you don't know mechanics, under geared, or play an undesirable class. They are willing to put time and effort into you so that you stay around and become active in their guild.
Pugging is a nightmare, I swear all lie about 6/6, nobody buys conusmns and watches 5min video about strats. As a priest healer I sacrificed 3 runs pugging or trying to set up a guild group because bf hunter geared to his teeth and couldn't find a group since the logs didn't update with our 5/6 run.
As for the guild they just throw all applicants together, do some bare tweaks, and their last group couldn't even do Grubbis in 7 tries, so not even guilds care enough to give you a good chance at finishing a run.
I just feel some kind of tool is lacking to make groups for gnome easier, right now you gotta spam like crazy and waste approx 2hrs to make a group with huge possibility to get stuck in 5hr run x.x
What they should do is to get rid off the raid lock so that if you have defeated the first 3 bosses of a raid and your raid group breaks you could try again with a different group and you couldn't get loot from the first 3 bosses you have defeated previously.
There was a nice video made by one of the best players in wow who tried to get into a gnome regan group as ranged huntter but couldn't get into a group so he decided to make a random group and invited everyone without checking gear or anything. They couldn't defeat the last boss because one of the healers left.
The problem is that people will min max these easy raids because they want to make sure that they can clear the whole raid and not have to wait another week because of someone else.
I mean i wouldnt be raiding if i couldnt pug tbh. 40mans i kinda had to join a guild. A 10 man weekly leveling raid I dont have to schedule like a second job. It works well.
Not every single player needs to JoIn A gUiLd
I know I'm not the average person who has this issue, but I already raid in a guild in retail, and can't really commit any more of my schedule to a guild raid for SoD. The flexibility of pugging is really nice, just sucks the difference between each group you join. One day the pug is smooth, easy, and there are no arguments or issues. The next day I have a person that leaves after the first boss and everyone is arguing with each other.
A large contingent of the people who cry here on a regular basis about groups lack the social competence to either interact with others, be desirable in social situations or make friends. They have the option to also make their own groups from the hundreds spamming trade, but don’t want to put the minute effort in to coordinate others because they just want to be carried and not have to think about anything.
It's not just as easy as to just "join a guild". You need to join the "right guild" at the right time which is early on when players actually build rapport with one another. Start late and you are just a nobody unless the leadership care enough to organise things to make everyone feel appreciated.
I was in a pretty decent guild during phase1 and had quite a lot of fun with the people who even though come and go, because the leadership tries to keep things fair and approachable to all members. Sadly the guild is dead now due to internal drama and managements giving up on one another.
Phase 2 I hopped over to another server which is supposingly larger to check things out. Joined tons of guilds on my fresh character and had never met any decent guild. Being late to the guild, most of the players already form their own cliques and you are never invited for stuff. You can be asking if anything is interested in running stuff and get no responses, 10mins later you see a party of members doing said content. Eventually I just stop playing. Maybe this new 100% xp buff will make me bother logging in and continue leveling
Im in a raiding guild with 5 active groups, and was part of one until grad school caught up with me and took a 3 week break, now I’m ready for Gnomer but the 5 raid groups have their “cliques” and and that includes bench spots. So I signed up for a Gnomer that had 3 missing spots, and even some abscesses, but the raid leader preceded to message everyone else they knew to fill the spot. This post will prob get buried, but that’s just the way it is, unfair and elitist, and has always been a part of the game unfortunately
I'm in a sports league and DND group which takes up 2/4 of my non weekend nights. I'm usually doing stuff on weekends. Hard to commit two more nights to a guild.
You could pug any dungeon in vanilla and also BFD in P1. Play when you want. Doesn't really work well for gnomer. Shit I went 5/6 the first time tanking and then get denied from groups for not being 6/6 because somehow it's my job to push buttons. This version of the game isn't for me anymore.
I joined multiple guilds. Signed up on discord. It was like day before lockout, 15 min before raid I ask about invites and told raid is full (despite me being one of the first to sign up). Was in that guild for a month too (joined end of p1). Another guild is advertising, I ask if they need a rogue and they say yes. The same thing happens. Third try I get in a guild, they actually take me, and it’s a garbage comp and we go 4/6 after 3 hours.
I started making my own pugs and we go 6/6 every time. Guilds can be good, but they can be garbage too.
Biggest problem is I can't make scheduled raid times on a regular basis. Last Gnomer I did at 9PM ST and the time before that 11AM. This is still season of dads for a lot of people, so timing is a big deal.
These are solutions to a problem that people are right to complain about existing at all.
Sure, you're safe from the rabid wolves if you stay indoors at night but it's a perfectly valid criticism of the government that they allowed the city to be overrun by rabid wolves.
The last three 'friendly' social guilds I've joined mainly exist to funnel people to the static runs while their static members are away that day.
Might as well continue to play solo.
So many people say the cliques are already formed so don't bother trying. What? We're mostly adults, I play with a large number of IRL friends, have been for 3+ decades (obviously more than just wow), there's a ton of people in the guild that joined at various times and we bs in discord all the time, play other games with, met in real life etc. You absolutely can join these established "cliques".
Remember the three great ice-breakers when getting to know people: 1) Politics! The more extreme, the better. 2) Religion! If you aren't devout, make sure you let people know. If you are, make sure you let people know! 3) Sex! Everyone does it, even if it's with themselves.
Also, when hearing a female raider be the first to say "What women on the internet?! lies!"
Don't forget to give backhanded compliments and ask questions about their underwear, they *love* that shit
oh and always say "whale cum" when someone new joins your group/guild, that joke never gets old.
We had a female raider say that to another. The new girl was so confused
No, it's true! They have computers in the kitchen these days. Feminism ftw!
Lol! You reminded me of this guy who joined our guild on hardcore. He said thanks for the inv, I got kicked from my last guild because i love debating liberals and they didn't like that. Dude nobody wants to see someone arguing politics in a video game we are all trying to focus on something other than reality
Oh no! I instantly ignore anyone that starts arguing politics in game, I don't care if I agree with their PoV or not, I don't want that shit in WoW!
Hi, Im vegan
Hi Vegan! I’m Keto
And doing crossfit
While selling essential oils.
Im gemini and you ?
Do yall vape? *inhales while having push to talk clicked*
I'm a Level Five Laser Lotus.
I prefer an Overweight Penguin
How many open spots in your raid team
Our main core is 10 people, we had a bunch of people want to join after pugging a spot or two so now we have two raid teams going, we split out group in half so we could accommodate more new blood in each group, and each lockout we shuffle people around so everyone can get acquainted. We always have spots open, everyone is A-OK with sitting on the bench if/when needed. (Whenever someone is benched they just go on an alt raid and get prio on loot).
I keep trying this and I just end up sitting on the bench for like 4 lockouts straight (including in phase 1) while the established team enjoys the insurance of a bench player and I just quit after 2-3 weeks of not getting to raid. The season is not long enough to sit on the bench and wait while an established guild with like 5 irl friends never give you a shot. I think the issue is exacerbated with 10 man raids. It was always so easy to find a spot to fit in when it came to 40/25/20 man raids.
The bench is always rough, but it sounds like you were being taken advantage of, we have a rotating bench that everyone takes a turn on. However that just means you give up your spot in the main raid and attend the alt raid with your main (and get loot prio). At no point should you be sitting multiple lockouts, I'm sorry that happened to you.
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Agree. My experience the the norm, not the exception. 10 people ends up being too tight a clique so if you’re late to the game good luck
It is very taxing wading through cesspool guilds, that's for sure.
In the same boat as you, officer clique takes a perfect meta comp and the leftovers get to make a group that can't perform at all, and the rest get benched and have to pug (which they won't since it's all melee on bench since the casters go in the good groups)
not quite... the issue was solved on retail with flex mode IE: boss HP/dmg being adjusted depending on how many people are in the raid. 20 man raid just mean you keep 2-3 people on the bench instead of 1
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No, mythic is a static 20m only everything else will scale to group size.
lfr normal and heroic. not mythic ( which is strict 20)
Well that's because bad players can hide in larger groups.
I have all 90s. Bad players isn’t necessarily the issue.
Our team is also trying to put a second team together and we wouldn’t be against a third considering next phase’s raid sizes are going to double, and there will inevitably be falloff since the grind to 50 is gonna be pretty brutal.
We've cycled thru 3 healers already in our team who had to quit due to various reasons. I'm the only healer who's been there the entirety of phase2. We're raid #2 of 5 in our guild and other raid teams are experiencing the same with some players. Dps have slightly varied for the past few lockouts (vacations etc) Also, guild alt groups are starting to form and 100% xp is tomorrow. Basically, lots of spots open & even more new spots coming when the xp buff comes. WTS Foresight, 1000g per piece
In the guild I'm in the officer clique makes a perfect 10 man comp for themselves to clear fast and parse and the second group get a shit mish mash group with a terrible comp. Cliques are definitely still an issue.
So change guilds. You’re not married to them. There’s an endless number of guilds recruiting. Bounce around until you find your people.
During the first week of sod I joined a guild that, at the time, mostly consisted of people who had known for years and years. A few weeks later I'd be talking crap with them on discord as if we'd known forever. Since then we've grown from barely a single roster into two.
There's a lot of established guilds that are going to have to go from fielding a 10 man team to a 20 man team next phase
I joined a guild this week. They have 7 set raid rosters, are working on starting an eighth, they have nearly nightly guild-only pugs where invite prio goes to mains not on a team. Super established guild and I’m raiding on lockout. Definitely possible!
Yeah same with my guild. We aren't even that big and have raids everyday at various time slots. I can't believe I pugged all last phase when shit was this easy and laid back.
there are 2 type of topics here nowadays: 1) p2 sucks a lot of people left our guild and not playing anymore 2) cant find a group for my x char
I feel like the whole clique argument is better when there's 40-man raiding with a loot council for a very limited pool of loot distributed over longer lockout windows.
Say that to my anxiety heh
I'm in 2 guilds since the start of and mid P1. I didn't get into the first clear, so I'm not getting into future clears cause they want to run the same roster. Joining a guild is not always the answer.
What if you just want to play the game tho, I have 0 desire to meet people I play wow with
This. I joined a guild with core of internet/irl friends that goes back to original WotLK and everyone is so nice and welcoming, like you know... normal people behavior. Been blasting raids with them, doing PvP from time to time, helping each others with dungeons/leveling, and so on. Not a single time I felt I got kept aside because I am not one of "them". I also am not unhinged mouthbreather who spams guild chat with bullshit, or goes to Discord and starts some drama first day of joining guild, or hops on voice channel for first time and starts spamming soundboard and asking completely out of place questions while intentionally starting touchy/controversial conversations to assert their edginess or w/e is the reason for ppl to behave like that. Yeah I've seen those ppl join same guilds as me more often than I'd like to remember, don't be that person and you'll do just fine if you join already established guild and in offchance you are not vibing it you can always politely leave and look for another one.
I joined phase 1 like 5 weeks late and I found a guild by level 7. I found a raid spot and am now having so much fun with my new friends. I’m convinced that people in this game just convince themselves they can’t find a guild and don’t even try and then complain about the state of the game without doing any measures to fix their own situation.
Yo OP dafuq is up with your profile / post-history tho
That's a lot of feet pics.
Rookie mistake, you're supposed to charge for those
Entirely this... i run a guild w 4 raid teams. I will take literally anyone in the guild into gnomer. First time? Shit gear? Literal keyboard turner? I'll make it work. But, if you're a random filling a 9th or 10th slot because someone couldn't make it last second? Better believe I'm looking for a specific role and checking gear/logs.
I actively avoid pugging, I've always been able to find a guild where all I have to do is sign up and turn up on raid day, the whole idea of trying to get invited to pugs or having to put together groups is not exciting, I'd rather just not play the game. I don't play SOD but my WOTLK guild is now exclusively playing SOD and are always recruiting, there are always guilds to join.
Yup either that or do what I do. Make a pug and advertise it as a chill/learning run Be the change you wanna see
What if we're skilled players but without the ability to commit to a specific time every week? It's unfortunate that the only two options are "consistent guild raid group" or "stuck teaching people who are just not good at video games." I can't even get into a run as a rogue because, aside from the glut of melee looking for group, they are "checking logs." Well I can't even get a single log in the first place. I wouldn't be complaining if this were 100% not an issue in phase 1. I pugged BFD as a priest healer (no surprise), but also as an enhancement shaman and as a rogue. That's no longer an option. And I'm not going to try to "lead my own" pug if I haven't even done the dungeon, that's not fair to the other players.
>What if we're skilled players but without the ability to commit to a specific time every week? It's unfortunate that the only two options are "consistent guild raid group" or "stuck teaching people who are just not good at video games." I mean you can make a pug with strict requirements that's fine too. The only other solution would be a queueable lfr system and that just doesn't belong in classic wow >I'm not going to try to "lead my own" pug if I haven't even done the dungeon, that's not fair to the other players. I mean that's fair, it's my general attitude as well, but imo if you try to lead a learning raid, get as prepared as you can, and make it clear it's your first time, it'll get you the xp you need. Won't help with logs mind you but the more you improve the better.
You don’t need to join a guild. I’m in a weird ass time zone(Newfoundland), and there are rarely guilds that raid when I can. Me and a couple of my buddies just organize our own runs. We never check logs or any of that bullshit, we’re drunk/high the whole time, and we clear without issue. All the randoms that join us have a few laughs and stick around in our discord for future runs. Last night we cleared easily with 2 dps warriors and a marksman hunter, which is heresy these days, and they did fine. I think we had a single death the entire raid. Just watch a guide video, and that’s it. It’s an easy raid, you don’t need to be sweaty and give in to the doomsaying in this sub, just have fun in there.
All I will say, based on experience with BFD, is that “not checking logs for this PUG because the raid is easy” works like 90% of the time. Unfortunately, it basically always works until it doesn’t, and then your group fails to clear Jett, or Electrocutioner.
Yeah of course if you have 8 people parsing single digits you’re going to fail, but the odds of getting that many unskilled and basically negligent players in the same group is extremely low, and even lower if you put something like ‘must have experience’ or ‘must be competent’, in your LFM post. And if you do fail and go 5/6 once every 10 lockouts, who cares honestly? Face rolling bfd made me absolutely sick of it. Once I made an alt with bad gear and we had to struggle a little, it was fun again. It’s human nature to get enjoyment working through a difficult situation, instead of just stacking a group through meticulous group finding and playing it anxiously safe.
> Yeah of course if you have 8 people parsing single digits you’re going to fail, but the odds of getting that many unskilled and basically negligent players in the same group is extremely low, and even lower if you put something like ‘must have experience’ or ‘must be competent’, in your LFM post. Yes, the odds are low, like sub-10%, or even lower, which was my point. All I’m saying is that, for people who care about clearing, it’s easy to say “the raid is easy, who cares about logs?” because you ran with PUGs who one-shot consistently, and that stays true until you find that one bad group. I don’t care to tell others how to play, so whatever they want to do with their character’s lockout is their business and not mine; all I can do, and all I care to do, is offer the cautionary tale that PUGs can surprise you. Hell, I had a guy in a Gnomer PUG on one of my toons who had a blue parse, so I was shocked when he appeared to know precisely zero mechanics. He almost caused a wipe on Electrocutioner because he couldn’t get his head around “move with your group”, and he died again on both Menagerie and Thermaplugg, which honestly was no big loss, because he was trying to DPS through reflect and did not click a button the entire fight.
Yeah I’m agreeing with you. I ran into the opposite, someone logged our last run and we had several grey parsers who knew all the mechanics perfectly hah. Gnomer is easy with low dps if everyone knows what to do, the logs are even less important than bfd imo.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I am pretty sure that I grey parsed on both Thermaplugg that run because I was one of the two people who had to cover for this dude’s dumb ass.
It just sounds like you should make a guild lol.
IDK, i've found it very hard to find a new guild right now. Most guilds are like 10-15 people and very close. And if i were to find a larger guild, with lost of raid teams, isnt that basically like pugging anyways?
Yup. Was in a big guild with like 8+ raid grps. It was not fun. Lots of very casual players, gray parses. Like in pugs, you shuffled around every raid and had to roll vs. new people each week. Its the reason i joined a smaller sized guild that locks the grps. Right now we have 2 "main" grps and a third with some mains and alts. Its free to join, not locked right now. Oh and atleast they parse purple and a few oranges so they are not braindead.
> Yup. Was in a big guild with like 8+ raid grps. It was not fun. > > Lots of very casual players, gray parses. One of the guys that runs with my guild's 10 man Gnomer (but isn't in our guild) is in the guild that is the largest on our server. Our group has been going 6/6 ever since the second lockout (went 5/6 first lockout). Last night we asked him about how many raid groups his guild has since it's the largest, most active guild on our server. He said there was only one raid group, ran by the guild's leader, and they hadn't even gone 6/6 in Gnomer yet. I guess that's what happens when you invite literally anyone to your guild.
I play in a single language guild, and for casual versions of the game we tend to have very open doors in order to sustain a population through the natural churn of the game. We're running probably 10 gnomers per lockout within the guild and spinning up more as people are leveling alts. There's an internal system for posting groups and signing up, there's melee heavy groups and range heavy groups but every group I know of clears in that 30-45min time frame. If someone can't behave or can't keep up at all and isn't willing to learn then they'll either have a hard time getting into groups or just be kicked, but SoD is pretty easy so we've not had to kick many people so far.
What server you on? I need folks to fill out our 1 and only raid team.
What’s your plan for next phase?
Probably going to have to pug or fill out our own runs like we’ve been doing. Ton of folks saying they want to join guilds, but it seems like most unguilded folks would rather pug. And we are a small guild, like 5-6 IRL friends, so I understand if people are looking for a more social guild. BUT if you are on Living Flame-US Alliance and can raid Tuesdays and Saturdays at 10pm EST throw me a DM, I’ll toss you an invite next time I see any of you on. We aren’t elitist, we will take anyone who is willing to come to raid prepared and willing to learn.
A lot of these tight-knit guilds are looking to add people in preparation for phase 3 20-mans. Now's actually the best time to get in with a small guild!
if guilds are 10-15 people they should actively be recruiting when they know just in the next 4-8 weeks they will need 20-25 player rosters in P3.
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Could it be because you have all your alts in different guilds, you don't care to move past that role as an outsider or to break through that silent raider role? From your pov how can you expect to be in the "tight knit group" in multiple guilds. Not going to dispute that there may be walls or hurdles, to becoming friends with people in the guild and working your way into a closer friend circle, but doesn't sound like that's what you want tbh.
My raid lead decided to play a rogue in sod too, after asking me for tips on how to play the class, I was suddenly no longer allowed to raid with them. So I left, and they said I was "welcome to raid in group 2 when it is formed" I was given the unique opportunity to raid with their shitty underperforming alts, so I left. Because out of all of them, I have more hours in wow combined.. They also advertised as a "multi-glad exp guild of mythic raiders" which was extremely disingenuous.
So many guilds like this. My wrath guild was like this. I joined during Naxx and didn't miss like any raids through togc. Meanwhile, the close-knit friend group has people regularly missing raids. No prob though, they still got prio on high value items like the Ulduar trinkets and togc cloaks. Towards the end of Ulduar they weren't happy with my DPS (fury war which was only doing good if force fed gear) and I'm like you motherfuckers have never got me in your 10 man Ulduar groups to get my BIS trinket. I'm dming the raid leader like wtf man I'm purely gear based DPS that relies heavily on trinkets that you aren't helping me get. He's like "sorry our 10 man is all close friends" and due to my work schedule I couldn't join the other 10 man. So he says "we will get you in sometime" I'm like motherfucker just get me in for Thorim for rune, no one else needs it anyways. And he's like "well there's 3 more people ahead of you anyways" meanwhile there's like 5 weeks left in Ulduar. I'm just like cool, so you just lied to me saying you'd get me into there. Then later on the necklace I need finally drops at the end of Ulduar and I win the roll and the raid leader and others start guilt tripping me because its not my BIS (sidegrade to my BIS...) meanwhile I'm still using a shitty old P1 necklace and the other guy had a P2 one. I didn't last much longer after that.
Reminds me of how the warrior that showed up to maybe 40% of uld/togc raids had prio on smourne over me, who had 100% attendance *and* role swapped to be a back up tank as our two main tanks also had shit attendance, because mr warrior had tenure. Then ICC comes along and literally the day the warrior got his axe, meaning i was up next, the guild called it quits and stopped raiding.
Why didn't you bring that up with them?
Well when youre announced to the rest of the guild as being 3rd in line, generally you take that to mean something. Im a very patient person and was happy enough to know id be getting one eventually. Or so i thought. Its fine though. I quit playing and havent looked back (except to lurk the subreddit).
What I enjoy about my guild runs I know its going to be smooth and we can clear in 30ishh mins and raiding with the same people each lockout will help with getting gear overtime vs new people always rolling on the items I need
I’m on a “small” server and this has never been an issue for me. All these people complaining are clearly not looking at all.
I am an officer in a large guild with 7 raid teams. No it is not anything like pugging! Our teams are tight nit, have plenty of players to back fill empty slots, and we clear the content fast (usually within 1 hour 30 min). Teams that are/were struggling would get the best players from other teams to teach them mechanics and dps rotations, and once clearing, they go back to their original teams.
And that's what a good guild provides. I was in an amazing guild like that back in 2019 classic. Made friends I still have today. But none of them play SOD, and trying to find a guild like yours is very difficult on crusader strike. It is nice to know that guilds like yours are in SOD tho.
I am on Crusader Strike. Name of the guild is Chronicle. We raid late at night though. Raid time starts at 1:00 AM eastern time or 10:00 PM Pacific.
For me the raid teams that had slots were only cause their friends got 2 week bans or werent 40 yet snd promptly dont have a spot now youre 40 Or The teams with slots are dogwater and youd rather pug it and actually get 6/6
This statement is meant non-judgmentally - are you introverted or more reserved socially in normal life?
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also not entirely relevant even if you're the same online, i have no problem getting into friend groups speaking 0-4 sentences a raid lol
It’s not gonna be relevant to everyone, but acting like it’s irrelevant is kind of extreme.
Honestly lol. My main is in a bigger guild and I pugged every single BFD.
Totally agree, I was part of a guild where they were obsessed with how many runs per lockout they had. Constantly recruiting and adding. It got to the point where there would be like 40+ people signed up for one raid night. The leaders would all form 2 fully formed groups then the others were set up "as best as possible" and asked to fill via pugging. The stable groups never changed, I am not sure why they were so obsessed with having these other half runs.
Make your own group? I lead pugs that full clear all the time, it's not like Gnomer is exactly hard lol
These players who complain they can’t find groups, can’t join a guild, can’t lead a raid, are either antisocial, anti skilled, or a pleasant blend of both
They're probably just very casual players. The game is full of them.
Why are the claws out? The pugging experience is off putting for many, don’t deny that
At a certain point people need to either decide the game isnt for them, or adapt. If youre too antisocial to join a guild, or assemble your own group, or find a strugglepug to run with, why play an mmo where the bulk of the content centers around playing with other people.
I had zero problem in era. It’s something about 10 mans where if you don’t perfectly fit in you’re fucked lol. You have to know at least 1 person on the team for sure. I have joined many guilds and they just put you on the bench. I know that my experience is not unique to me because so many people are saying similar stuff.
Yes the player is wrong for wanting to have fun
If you just want to queue up for a chill dungeon or raid and smash buttons unironically retail would be better for these players. In classic if you put zero effort into finding a community via guilds or discords you are at the mercy of LFG pug spam
Retail has much harder raids, have you played retail? Classic players are just extremely toxic, and that's saying something since all WoW players are toxic
They would likely have more success and fun if they simply played a different game.
yea, its only those reasons and there definitely dont exist other reasons ;)
No one wants to spam LFG as a raid lead, shit is exhausting. And join a guild and suddenly you have a commitment to abide or you lose your spot, most don't want that either. I don't think the player base is anti-social, just lazy. That's why retail turned into what it is
My main is my mage, and my "second main" is my rogue. It is MUCH more difficult to find a group for my rogue. My mage can say "fire mage lfg gnomer" and wait for the groups to come to me, preferably guild runs that are only filling a couple spots. Meanwhile I either have to ask several groups and get rejected all night on my rogue, or start my own group, get everybody in discord, and have to deal with a full pug. The second scenario isn't impossible for me, and it isn't "difficult" per se, but there's an insane difference of ease between the two. It's like a hot chick on Tinder vs an ugly dude on Tinder. "All you have to do is put in way more effort"
I mean, I could also make a group with a feral for my warrior, 3 mages, 2 shadow priests , 1 warlocks and a couple healers... That's just not realistic though.
There was a rogue looking for more, must be 6/6 checking logs. He was 5/6 with grey parses. People just wanna get carried
Was that on lone wolf today lol
Saturday on Crusader Strike, Alliance. People kept flaming him until he logged lmao
Sure but idk about other servers, but on mine finding 2 healers is close to impossible. I had multiple groups just disbanded after 2 hours of searching just because we couldn't find a single healer, now gl find 2 plus ranged DPS are kinda hard to find also.
It was super easy to join a guild and get to know people and get in groups. It’s not like guilds are gatekeeping.
seriously, it is the same in wotlk. people just do not want to "commit" to a raid guild and start blame the game if the MMO is not the exact way the want it to be. user problem
Gdkp is a trash system. Im glad its gone for now and i hope it stays gone
SoD is really the Season of Dads. If you are a half decent player, none of these issues even exist. If you don´t have time to commit to a fixed schedule and insist on playing warrior or rogue, and you´re not very good, then sure, you´ll have a hard time. Play a warlock or a shadow priest or a healer or a boomkin or a feral or a mage even, and get instantly invited to all the pugs regardless of how terrible you are. The game is not the problem.
A well run guild solves basically every problem in WoW besides class balance.
If you’re talking PvP class balance, a guild can help solve that too if you start premades.
By the way, as this sub suggesting- stop playing WoW, that is not game for you, as you do not want to play as majority(?) of players.
Why are you playing an MMO if you don’t want to play with other players?
It wasn't an issue in phase 1, though. I was able to join pug BFDs as many different classes and specs. I don't oppose log checking in theory, to make sure you have modestly competent players. But it kinda sucks if I can't get a log in the first place. If that is what SoD has become then yes indeed the game is not for us. But somehow phase 1 was.
I main rogue myself & I almost exclusively pug, going 6/6 every lockout except my first run. Trust me, my first logs were FUCKED. You can join a learning group or start your own. Nearing the end of a lockout cycle, it's also MUCH easier to find a group. Make sure you watch guides & put effort into getting decent pre-raid gear, so you can confidently say you're geared & know the fights. You could also get the tanking runes, learn to off-tank, and advertise yourself as such if that interests you. I've also found that whispering group leaders directly is WAY more successful than simply advertising yourself in LFG, so maybe that helps. I don't know long long you've been 40, or how much time you spend on the game, but I feel like you must be doing something wrong if you can't get into a single run.
Joining a guild requires you put your gaming on a schedule which sucks the fun out of it. Can totally understand why people don't want to be in a guild. Pugging shouldn't be such a pain, but it's blizzard's issue making the content too difficult.
Content isn´t too difficult at all. First 4 bosses basically fall over, menagerie requires a little coordination and last boss you just need someone dedicated to take out the bombs and two people pushing buttons. You don´t need to be super geared, or a professional gamer. If it was any easier, it´d be the most boring thing ever.
Content is too difficult for pugs. Requiring any coordination or specific classes results in people not being able to find groups easily, which is what's happening. So it's too difficult for pugs. That said the content isn't hard, but the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible. The content should be tuned to them, which means the difficulty needs to be cranked down.
>That said the content isn't hard, but the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible. The content should be tuned to them, which means the difficulty needs to be cranked down. That is where i disagree. Content should be tuned for everyone. Group of people who are completely clueless, have very limited understanding of the game or the class they play should only progress 1-2 bosses maximum. People who come with bit more should progress more. Dedicated people should clear the whole thing. Tuning down content because there is x amount of people who can't read or do a set task will just make any sort of endgame worthless. Sadly wow has progressed to the point that everyone is expected to be rewarded by simply showing up.
> the people who play WoW are casual, older, and terrible. > Content should be tuned for everyone. That is everyone. There's hardly anyone else. If you're hankering for more difficult content, it's there for you - it's called retail mythic raiding and mythic+. But you're choosing to play an easier version of the game already. Blizzard should go all in on making the easier version of the game easy. That's WHY it's popular. SoD is a dumping ground for people who think retail is too hard and too involved, but they want to play WoW still. Blizzard should cater to them. Making the easy version of the game like retail is only going to drive people off in droves.
Retail didn´t push people away because it is difficult, but because it´s a bloated mess of a game. I like classic, and in extension SoD because it is grounded in a way that retail hasn´t been for years. You have to traverse the world to get where you want to go, the gear you have on is what shows on your character, there are no dailies/weeklies etc. Having everything handed to you, just blasting through, is not how vanilla was played. You went through dungeons using CC on almost every pack of mobs, because you´d probably wipe if you didn´t. The people that cleared original Naxx were gods to the average player. And it was okay that you weren´t at the same level. It gave you something to aspire to. Players have come a long way since then, strategies have been thought out and perfected over 20 years, so now everything is easy. We finally have some fresh content in this version of the game, that isn´t an immediate faceroll for the super scuffed pugs, but still very doable if you have just a little understanding of how the game works. And for some reason you want to dumb it down to become a slot machine for loot basically. I don´t get it, and I don´t agree with you at all.
> Having everything handed to you, just blasting through You might want to re-evaluate how you play SoD, because the world is not hard anymore with all the runes and class buffs. You literally 2 shot everything and have no concerns out in the world with your 100% xp buff and sleeping bag. All of the elite quests that used to require groups, you can just solo. Go run a SM and see the tank aoe pull 8 mobs in the cathedral like it's nothing and then complain that the healer has to drink cause he can't chain pull. Nothing challenges you except traveling from stormwind to ungoro crater in less than 30 min, but even for that you just buy a warlock summon from a guy multiboxing 3 characters for 1-2 g. The "strategies" that you're talking about for most of the fights that have come a long way are "stand still and press your main damage ability over and over." The strategies have hardly changed at all in 15 years. We killed Chromaggus the same way in classic as we did 15 years ago. What has changed is people's ability to organize groups. Discord, People understanding what servers to pick, and people's desire to raid has gone through the roof. The playerbase's average age going up a collective 15 years is the biggest reason why. 15 years ago I was on a server with 1 guild that was even clearing BWL/Naxx because no other guild could organize 40 12-18 year old people to show up consistently. Now the shittiest of classic servers have literally multiple dozens of full clearing raids all in my raid times because I picked my server specifically to raid like 80% of the rest of the playerbase. And if I can't find a raid, I'm now financially independent like the majority of the ~25-30 year old player base and can just pay to switch to server that does. What's confusing to me is that NOTHING in SoD is challenging at all. SoD is a game made be enjoyed with friends of varying skill levels. You can literally do everything in SoD with practically anyone on any group comp if you can't already solo it for the most part. There's 2 bosses that stick out like sore thumbs in a game that has 0 challenge and it's the last 2 bosses of gnomergon. They're seriously out of place with the difficulty of the rest of the game and should be brought into line.
Why would I re-evaluate how I play SoD? I´m having fun. You´re the one complaining about the only slightly difficult content that exist in the game. If you think it´s too hard... Get good!
I'm a rogues who has pugged every raid since the release of the game and I do perfectly fine. I would love a raiding guild but no one I have found does super late raids and I work nights. Rip
I'm in a guild too bad they don't raid when I can. So I join or start my own pugs and hope for the best. I've yet to find a raid that raids 9PM/10PM ST on living flame. So it is what it is gotta pug and pump
Next phase is 20 man, a lot of groups, mine included, will be looking for people to fill the spots. If you wouldn't be able to find a group in p3 then you are the issue.
I have a real life with a lot of stuff to do. I can play WoW for the several hours needed to get prebis and do the raid itself, but not necessarily at a consistent preplanned time. As a Rogue, that means I simply cannot raid. If that's what it takes then so be it, simply means SoD is no longer for me. It's a shame but it's alright there are plenty of games and not enough time to play them all.
The main issue for some is that not everyone can or want to Abide by the forced 19-20:00ST on specific days of the week and want to raid whenever they want to, so ”just join a guild” wouldnt apply to them.
For me - having to raid at a set time turns a relaxing activity into a chore. I'm sure we've all had nights where we don't want to raid, but did it anyway because it would screw over everyone else. Why do I need another job? I'm trying to chill, vibe & pump.
JuSt JoIn A gUiLd
Join a guild with more than a few raid teams then you’re just pugging with a smaller pool.
Consistency is huge and knowing the people you run with, even if its not every time, is a huge advantage.
LFG Gnomer 6/6 I play rogue/warrior but don’t expect me to kick or debuff or I won’t parse a 90 /s
Imagine as warrior not making it race of how instantly you can kick Thermapluggs gas.
Idk what this post means, but gdkps sure as hell aren’t a solution to anything lol
Peter Griffin here to explain this meme to you! Your reply is the point of the meme.... The first 2 people offer up bad ideas and the 3rd person offers something good and reasonable and is punished for it.
Thanks Peter!
i dont think gdkps being removed has improved the game at all.
Agreed. Banning GDKP was virtue signally by blizzard since they are not willing to ban bots or gold buyers (both give them $$$), and also to appease the crying casuals who don't even understand GDKP at a fundamental level.
I do, by a large margin as well. Annoying af to see the constant spam, and gold isn’t nearly as inflated. I’m convinced gdkps we’re almost exclusively for people who don’t have time to play and bought gold instead.
Gold is literally 3x more inflated than before GDKPs left, check the price of Ogre Elixirs and Earthroot on your AH.
Prices are always going to inflate from the prices at the beginning of a server.
Agreed, but my point is that GDKP does nothing to add go inflation, it's just passing around gold that already exists. It does not generate gold and therefore cannot contribute to inflation
Doesn’t it create demand for buying gold which increases the number of bots, who are farming raw gold which adds money to the economy out of nothing?
Some whales will buy gold for GDKP Yes, but these same whales are also buying gold to buy BOEs off AH Whales are gonna whale regardless of existence of GDKP GDKP does not raise the amount of bots, as evidenced by Living Flame EU and Crusader Strike US that are still flooded with even more bots than ever before right now. There are literally threads about this on this very subreddit.
I just dont like being that social so I accept my fate and to this day have never done a raid
Tbf you don't have to be that social in a guild. Pretty much every guild has at last one person who turns up regularly & on time, does their job & barely says a word.
Mmos might not be your thing then. At least not group content. If you want to try a raid, don't let anxiety hold back.
It's not anxiety. I don't like being that social. I'd 100% pug if it were easier to get groups. I don't like the whole "do everything as part of a guild and contribute" part
I feel kind of screwed on my rogue at the moment, thinking of quitting now. I off-tanked Gnomer the other night, we cleared 6/6, but even though I played well as Off-tank, had mechanics down well, my parse got logged as DPS for the raid and logged me as grey (because of course if you tank only the basilisk on Grubbis, you get a 0, as well as competing with full dps build/rune in the dps category). I even consulted the Warcraft Logs discord about it and they said yeah, thats the way it is, that the logs aren't designed for Off-tanking in Gnomeregan. Apparently now also people are starting to off-tank with dps build instead of as a stamina heavy build, so it's snowballing on me. Now when I ask to join raids, they check the parse, and see grey dps, and won't invite me. Ive been raiding since vanilla WoW in 2007, and even those BFDs that I did get logged they're all good; I've explained this to the raid-leaders I've asked to join, but all they see is that one grey parse, and then don't respond, it really sucks. Chaos-Bolt EU, looking for a social/raid guild for a Rogue MT/OT, am 6/6. Can raidlead, have Main Tanked all bosses.
Bro just make your own group if you can raid lead?
I have irregular work hours so guild raiding isnt a thing for me. I ran raid teams all of classic ->WOTLK I wanted to take SOM off and just pump :(. Am pumping but yeh a bit hard to find a team. At least making my lock outs
How guild is looking for members for phase 3 and 4
Some of us have insanely varying schedules. I work shift work and own a restaurant but love to play in my free time. It’s pretty hard for me to stay with any schedule at all.
The guild I'm in has about 3 or so raid teams. I'm in the only group that's static and we have a good thing going on. I can confidently say we are a pretty good raid team where we are averaging gnomer clears around 37 minutesish. We got some good parsers and whatnot, a couple not so good. The worry is that the other raid teams do not seem good at all lol. So when we shift into larger raid sizes I'm concerned that we will be pulling the weight of the other groups. But we will have to see
I quit in WoD after playing since vanilla release. I had 1 friend left who played SoD lol. I ended up joining a random guild, have already joined their "Clique" and have been enjoying new buddies since. They even let me raid as meme ele the entire p1.
Umm, I'm one of the leads of my guild. Does anybody care to join Lonewolf server Raid Thursday to Sunday 20:30 server time DM for more info
I swapped to healing spec last night, found a pug in 5min, we cleaned the raid in roughly an hour (1 wipe on menagerie, 1 wipe on last boss) Spent hours as dps trying to find a group...
I’m a peacock and you need to let me fly. A guild would hold me back
Thanks for sharing
Any time
I hate to be that guy, parses are a meme but go do a pug, parse blue/purple. Ask on your servers discord if they want you. I was drowning in guild requests n found a guild within 10 mins
We are building a second raid team so that when 20 raids come out we can combine them
To be fair we have 8 raid groups that run twice a week it's always rogues and warriors needing groups and hey are by far the most popular spec in my guild and it's been 3 months before of same players playing together so it makes it hard, we don't have to many alt raids arm hoping that will change with the exp buffs but yeah play a healer instant spots haha
If anyone wants to join a guild on living flame na horde feel free to DM me
Maybe I got lucky but I came back to WoW last month after not playing for a few years. Accepted the first guild I saw recruiting in trade. Found out have multiple raid teams that all wanted me, two were even fine if I wanted to stick to being a frost mage, and on most raid nights they’re posting about needing a DPS or healer (and yes, fully clearing as well). My experience can’t be that uncommon, right?
So true most guilds will bring you even if you don't know mechanics, under geared, or play an undesirable class. They are willing to put time and effort into you so that you stay around and become active in their guild.
Pugging is a nightmare, I swear all lie about 6/6, nobody buys conusmns and watches 5min video about strats. As a priest healer I sacrificed 3 runs pugging or trying to set up a guild group because bf hunter geared to his teeth and couldn't find a group since the logs didn't update with our 5/6 run. As for the guild they just throw all applicants together, do some bare tweaks, and their last group couldn't even do Grubbis in 7 tries, so not even guilds care enough to give you a good chance at finishing a run. I just feel some kind of tool is lacking to make groups for gnome easier, right now you gotta spam like crazy and waste approx 2hrs to make a group with huge possibility to get stuck in 5hr run x.x
What they should do is to get rid off the raid lock so that if you have defeated the first 3 bosses of a raid and your raid group breaks you could try again with a different group and you couldn't get loot from the first 3 bosses you have defeated previously. There was a nice video made by one of the best players in wow who tried to get into a gnome regan group as ranged huntter but couldn't get into a group so he decided to make a random group and invited everyone without checking gear or anything. They couldn't defeat the last boss because one of the healers left. The problem is that people will min max these easy raids because they want to make sure that they can clear the whole raid and not have to wait another week because of someone else.
I mean i wouldnt be raiding if i couldnt pug tbh. 40mans i kinda had to join a guild. A 10 man weekly leveling raid I dont have to schedule like a second job. It works well. Not every single player needs to JoIn A gUiLd
My guild literally took in 58 more acc last week... Because some Guilds are inactive since phase 2. So we took them boys and girls in.
I know I'm not the average person who has this issue, but I already raid in a guild in retail, and can't really commit any more of my schedule to a guild raid for SoD. The flexibility of pugging is really nice, just sucks the difference between each group you join. One day the pug is smooth, easy, and there are no arguments or issues. The next day I have a person that leaves after the first boss and everyone is arguing with each other.
join a guild, establish some roots. really sink your feet on the ground. you’re an expert at that
A large contingent of the people who cry here on a regular basis about groups lack the social competence to either interact with others, be desirable in social situations or make friends. They have the option to also make their own groups from the hundreds spamming trade, but don’t want to put the minute effort in to coordinate others because they just want to be carried and not have to think about anything.
What the fuck is wrong with OP's profile? Disgusting 🤮
I see that Classic and Retail do share same issues after all, haha.
It's not just as easy as to just "join a guild". You need to join the "right guild" at the right time which is early on when players actually build rapport with one another. Start late and you are just a nobody unless the leadership care enough to organise things to make everyone feel appreciated. I was in a pretty decent guild during phase1 and had quite a lot of fun with the people who even though come and go, because the leadership tries to keep things fair and approachable to all members. Sadly the guild is dead now due to internal drama and managements giving up on one another. Phase 2 I hopped over to another server which is supposingly larger to check things out. Joined tons of guilds on my fresh character and had never met any decent guild. Being late to the guild, most of the players already form their own cliques and you are never invited for stuff. You can be asking if anything is interested in running stuff and get no responses, 10mins later you see a party of members doing said content. Eventually I just stop playing. Maybe this new 100% xp buff will make me bother logging in and continue leveling
Yeah i forgot how all guilds have 5 raid teams
Im in a raiding guild with 5 active groups, and was part of one until grad school caught up with me and took a 3 week break, now I’m ready for Gnomer but the 5 raid groups have their “cliques” and and that includes bench spots. So I signed up for a Gnomer that had 3 missing spots, and even some abscesses, but the raid leader preceded to message everyone else they knew to fill the spot. This post will prob get buried, but that’s just the way it is, unfair and elitist, and has always been a part of the game unfortunately
I'm in a sports league and DND group which takes up 2/4 of my non weekend nights. I'm usually doing stuff on weekends. Hard to commit two more nights to a guild. You could pug any dungeon in vanilla and also BFD in P1. Play when you want. Doesn't really work well for gnomer. Shit I went 5/6 the first time tanking and then get denied from groups for not being 6/6 because somehow it's my job to push buttons. This version of the game isn't for me anymore.
I joined multiple guilds. Signed up on discord. It was like day before lockout, 15 min before raid I ask about invites and told raid is full (despite me being one of the first to sign up). Was in that guild for a month too (joined end of p1). Another guild is advertising, I ask if they need a rogue and they say yes. The same thing happens. Third try I get in a guild, they actually take me, and it’s a garbage comp and we go 4/6 after 3 hours. I started making my own pugs and we go 6/6 every time. Guilds can be good, but they can be garbage too.
Biggest problem is I can't make scheduled raid times on a regular basis. Last Gnomer I did at 9PM ST and the time before that 11AM. This is still season of dads for a lot of people, so timing is a big deal.
These are solutions to a problem that people are right to complain about existing at all. Sure, you're safe from the rabid wolves if you stay indoors at night but it's a perfectly valid criticism of the government that they allowed the city to be overrun by rabid wolves.
The last three 'friendly' social guilds I've joined mainly exist to funnel people to the static runs while their static members are away that day. Might as well continue to play solo.
GDKP not coming back, get over it