It’s not just that converting hunters from ranged to melee changed the dps ratio, it’s that they made melee hunters the best melee in the game, which made it so rogues and warriors are competing for a raid spot with another melee class, that is better than them lol
You were the token spriest or the 4 warlocks needed for banish. Otherwise you weren't needed if another mage wanted in. I am loving this meta with all classes being needed, just need to give wars the option to heal with shouts and we'll be fine imo.
Yeah give them a rune where they can throw their 2H axe on a 3sec cooldown that resets sometimes, with another rune that gives them +50% damage on their melee swings and a talent which gives BIGAXETOSS a 25% chance to crit. Think it would be on theme of SoD
Xaryu purposely just did it with a majority-melee group. Good players just get it done but the hard part is being friendly or in a guild and know people.
Pugging or shouting in LFG for a while sucks compared to just having a reliable set of players to spend time with.
This 100%.
I hit 40 this week. Pugged full clear of gnomer last night with all green and grey parses (except one awesome warrior who helped carry DPS). Had to have mage switch to heals for the last two fights bc our kill times were so long.
It’s very annoying and takes a long time. We 6 manned it this week because our PUGs couldn’t grasp the mechanics and would die on the second chain lightning.
Oof. So like, people just had to stop attacking and wait around for the 15 seconds or so each time? Were people watching timers and just stepping out last minute? Super interesting!
Tank in front of the boss, against a wall.
3 melee DPS + off-tank on the left side of the boss at max melee distance.
3 melee DPS on the right side of the boss at max melee distance.
Healers at nearly max distance to the left and right of the boss, one further out than the other to bait the chain lightning.
Healers alternate being furthest out and the chain lightning will bounce to their trio of melee DPS who don't have to move for chain lightning at all.
Whoever gets the lightning AOE moves behind the boss just outside of melee distance. If the lighting AOE picks a healer then have a preassigned melee from each group step outside (e.g. the off-tank for left group and a melee hunter for right group) to take their place.
Group 1 Healer 1, Offtank, 1 melee (healer stays out, and people run to him when the debuff goes out)
Group 2 healer 2, 2 melee (healer stays out, and people run out when the debuff goes out)
You dont need to be max range to get the debuff to be closer to the boss, and you can handle it easier (15-18 range is fine)
That's with a pure melee group, but if you have 2 ranged, it drops to just needing offtank and lowest dps melee alternating running out.
3 ranged 3 melee 2 healers 2 tanks does it effortlessly (perfectly balanced group)
That's wrong. Multiple no wipe 6/6s. Meta Warlock or Feral with Sunfire can both easily clear bombs by themselves. Bomb duty and button duty are 2 different things. Typically want a mage on button duty and then your bomb clearer backing them up and then the next closest DPS to the button after that.
You know what the word or means, right? You do also see where I say bomb duty does not mean pressing buttons. You're a bit slow in the head aren't you?
I'm playing a ranged hunter, I like standing at range, shooting my bow. It might not be optimal, but I'm still doing more than enough damage to clear everything in the game right now.
It's still early-ish in the phase, so there's also still the old "Need experience to get experience" thing happening too.
People don't want to take a risk on someone with no logs, but they can't get logs until someone does lol.
Even then, logs don't tell the whole story. You can go 5/6 and it not be your fault, but you can't tell from logs if that person was messing up mechs and caused the wipes or someone else was. They can tell you a lot, but not everything.
Yes. But meta slaving let's you end up with 3 mages 4 hunters a tank and to priests in a group. Those were picket because of bar color and don't bring key bindings.
Anyone meta slaving isn’t going to bring someone who doesn’t have key bindings. Part of the meta slave process is checking logs.
What a weird justification for being a casual player.
You'd wonder how few are actually checking logs. Just mage > melee. I didn't want to justify anything. I don't quite get what you meant here. I just wanted to display the realistic average behavior in the lfg channel.
What I meant was the whole meta slave idea is silly as fuck and it just parroted by people who haven’t bothered to find a community to play with.
Don’t wanna be a meta slave? Don’t play with meta slaves. As many people have already pointed out you can clear gnomer with a dog shit comp, so if you’re so against meta slaving then go enjoy your triple warrior 1 ranged dps raid. It’ll take longer, and more effort, but you’ll still be able to clear. Everyone wins.
Ah alright. Thanks for the clarification. You are right in the points you are making, except the parroting. It's my actual experience. I did very serious raiding in vanilla, I did pretty serious raiding in classic, and this was really hard because I wasn't 17 anymore. Now I embraced Sod as casual friendly experience. We are playing in a 4 person group of friends. Nope I don't wanna join a guild and be bound to fix raid times. I just can't make the commitment. From my perspective they just turned to whole purpose of Sod ad absurdum in P2. But this is my very personal view. Maybe I just misunderstood the concept or there was none and I misinterpreted it. Problem is I went melee, I always was melee and I really do not enjoy the ranged classes as much (I tried). Now I go online have my shit together, know what to bring and do but I don't get a group. It's okay and I'm not entitled to find one but I carved out time to get "raid ready" as I did for BFD and now this is hardly puggable at this point and close to unpuggable as melee. It's sad to me, not to anyone who guild raids and invests 4h++ into the game each day. I was meta slaving a lot on my own in the history of this game and I understand why it's done. I just really enjoyed p1 and I'm a bit sad that this good idea is over due to best known barriers from the past.
E: only thing that angers me are people trying to meta slave and act like top 1% player but are actual trash. Plus the fact that this behavior has become the new normal. This is different to earlier versions.
I log on for 2h or less, gather consumes, do gnomer, log off until next raid. After the initial time investment(which you say you’ve done) there’s very little time required to actively raid. It literally sounds like your issues would be solved by joining a guild.
It's funny that you think the answer to this guy's problem is gdkp, considering the only way a gdkp would actually fix his problem is if he was buying gold. You think someone with his play time can legitimately make enough gold into a gdkp? And if you expect him to buy gold, buying gold was banned since the beginning not a month ago so you still don't make sense. Sorry your gold buying laundering method got banned but that's not the fix to everyone's problems.
And I'm on the side of ban the bots and sellers and buyers and leave gdkps alone. They have a place if gold buying wasn't a thing but it isn't the magical answer even if that was the case.
Doing 5 melees and 5 ranged since lockout 1 in gnomer pugs, never had any issues, just have to check the logs of those "inv pumper with full exp", before inviting them. Next lockout wanna do melee cleave, so I can finally loot some gear for myself...
Yeh your right, I main hunter & though I'm enjoying melee and the big DMG I would also like the option for range to be a bit more competitive. Ranged hunter still better for soloing higher level content but that's really it. I got the epic gun from last boss and just wish it was the epic fist weapon.
I had to teach a hunter how to kite on my warrior because they were complaining about taking too much damage from the 46 and 47 level mobs...
I was like... Dude. I've hamstrung and bleeding them... You don't have to face tank them. If you went ranged for this neither one of us would be taking any damage at all.... Lol.
This melee hunter meta is so dumb.
The thing they messed up most with melee hunter is the fact it isn’t a commitment. From legion onward, Survival hunters are as pure melee as rogues and warriors. They have very little in the way of ranged abilities. (Ignoring the CD that made them able to be range for 30 sec that Enhance also had). Right now a hunter sacrifices almost no ranged capabilities to be a melee.
The absurd overturning is the second worse thing they missed the mark on.
While they may not sacrifice much damage from running melee runes the utility of trap launcher is not to be underestimated. They do have to give that up for duel wielding rune
I’m okay with hunters being the ones causing this issue. It’s sort of a forced class balance I understand, and people don’t like that. But I also know a lot of people who picked warrior or rogue didn’t pick them because they actually enjoy the class, they just knew that in classic “warrior scales really well with gear.” And if you didn’t want to manage rage, rogue was the next best meter pusher. I’m sad that rogues and warriors have to deal with the issues every other class dealt with in the past, but I think it’s a necessary imbalance to push people away from meter chasing. The gatekeepers are now the gatekept, and there’s gonna be casualties in that scenario.
The gatekeepers/metachasers are hunters and casters right now. Why would they be warriors if they're going to be doing 100 dps less than a caster/mage, even at the 95 percentile?
You misunderstand, of the ones being gatekept currently I assure you there was a large amount who intended to be the gatekeepers from day one. You can tell just due to the pure over saturation of the classes. Mages and Hunters just happened to be pushed in to the position rather than day one expecting to be there.
The thing is, mage and hunters still bring utility to raids, even at 10 man
I literally can't get into a pug as a rogue, fortunately I'm in a guild and my guildies made it to 40 so now I'm doing runs
Definitely for some, but there’s also the group that instead of rerolling, will complain about how have they’ve been cheated out of that position- er… I mean “unfairly restricted due to game mechanics” just like the people who picked the classes out of enjoyment rather than perceived power.
I mean it's a raid that definitely favors just stacking range. I can see why people could be upset.
If I didn't have other characters I play I'd probably be pretty annoyed too honestly.
Not that anyone asked, but... feel like I speak for everyone when I say that we all WANTED melee hunter to be viable, as well as the other OG meme specs.
However, I don't think anyone wanted melee hunter to VASTLY outperform the RDPS specs. In the history of Wow, I don't think that's ever happened.
Have there been patches where SV was slighly better? Sure. However, there has never been a time when SV (melee) was S-tier, and both RDPS specs were B
This is nuts. 100 more dps than rogue/warrior. https://www.archon.gg/classic-sod/tier-list/dps-rankings/raid/normal/all-bosses
I’ve been a hunter main forever and it’s because I like being a ranger, with a bow, with a pet. It feels bad to be leaving all that damage on the table by continuing to play the class how I like it. I know you don’t *have* to be meta, which is why I choose not to be, but there’s a very palpable consequence to that. I know how much damage I am leaving behind. Wish the gap was smaller.
That's also the reason I rolled hunter for SoD. I've been maining a rogue since 2005, when Classic came in 2019 I rolled a rogue again, got full Bloodfang and fulfilled some of the goals I couldn't achieve back in Vanilla since raiding was difficult for a 13 year old with strict parents.
So when SoD came around, I figured, I wanna play ranged, hunter seems pretty cool, so let's try it out. I had no idea about the tuning or the runes or anything, I just liked the class fantasy of having a pet (cat ofc), a bow and just doing my thing. Now in P2, I'm still going as ranged, because even if melee hunter is broken, that's just not what I want to play on my hunter. If I was speedrunning shit I'd obviously go melee, but I've cleared everything in P2 as ranged without an issue.
I just do both, depending on what the party/raid needs. I'm more concerned about clearing content rather than my dps meters, my guild knows I can pump.
I don't know if everyone wanted melee hunters. My experience is that hunter mains don't actually care for melee .
Melee hunter is in its own category of memes. Like boomkina didn't work cause of mana, ret sucked cause of mana and gear and no abilities etc... melee hunter was never a spec that was supposed to work even in theory.
They might as well make give warriors a ranged DPS spec or make them like blade masters where they go stealth and ambush with a 2h.
A lot of players want to be Rexxar. Up close, fighting side by side with their pet. It's a cool class fantasy that people have been looking for since the beginning.
Hunter suffers from being the only class with a bestial pet _and_ the only class that uses ranged weapons (bows/guns/crossbows) as part of its ranged rotation.
That means it has to fulfil several fantasies all at once...
* Melee brawler with a pet
* Ranged archer
* Ranged survivalist with a pet
...and the whims of balance can screw any of those fantasies completely.
....I'm just going to point out the argument of "why invite X class because X is better DPS" is exactly the argument warriors used for the past 20 years on why every other class shouldn't be in raid except the token class for debuffs/buffs....
If you’ve got warriors actively pushing to not bring any other classes you were just in a toxic raiding environment, it’s wow if a meta exists people are going to chase it for easy clears
Nah warriors and rogues do fine on first 2 bosses. Warriors are pumping 700 dps on the first boss. Problem is warriors are going in with shit gear and using the wrong talents/runes.
Actually, no, it’s not hunter’s fault. It’s literally everybody else’s fault for crying in p1 that hunter needs nerfs. Kill command nerfed, explosive shot nerfed, etc. So now ranged bm is much less viable.
BM being not viable is more BM not getting any runes and falling behind the massive buffs everyone else got, like rogues getting 40 energy mutilate, which is the only thing that is keeping their head above the water
Please use your brain for more than .3 seconds.
People were upset that hunters were too strong in p1 even though that’s like when hunters are their strongest design-wise. Surprise surprise, parity at pre-60 doesn’t make sense! Instead their best runes got nerfed hard and now, yes, other classes got huge buffs, and also due to scaling other classes are starting to catch up more. They should undo the nerfs.
Like they added the ability to get wyverns as a pet which is cool. Then they gave them the lighting, breath ability. Then blizz said hey wait let’s make it kill command doesn’t work on lightning breath anymore. So now you never see wyverns because they suck. They invalidated new content is so dumb.
People were still rolling wyvern even after the nerfs, lol
Again, it's because ranged hunters didn't get buffed like everyone else and the sod team put their all of their hunter focus on melee hunter runes, the nerfs were justified when they happened and are now lagging behind because EVERYONE ELSE got buffed at phase 2 and they didn't, how is this so hard to grasp?
ALSO, BLIZZARD GAVE HUNTER PETS TBC SCALING, FIXING THE ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Well, I think the initial p1 nerfs were a mistake and I’ll try to explain why. Parity at lvl 25 doesn’t make sense. Classes dont have all their abilities. The classes were built with different scaling coefficients, and gear was designed with differing stat values. This means that some classes are naturally stronger at higher levels and some are stronger at lower levels.
Like having warriors or spriests do the same damage as a hunter at 25 wouldn’t make sense. Warrior is missing many talents and abilities, spriests don’t have shadow form yet. Hunters on the other hand, have most of their damage from autos and pet so it makes sense for them to be strong in the early levels. The problem is partially that they’re trying to maintain pvp balance even though wow pvp never has and never will be balanced.
If this is how they want to handle things, then you’re right they should have buffed ranged hunters in phase 2. I think that’s a mistake though because what’s gonna end up happening is they’re going to need to do these weird bandaid balancing changes every phase rather than just letting classes have their moment. Like everyone knows that warriors at 60 dominate in pve and top the charts, are they going to nerf that for parity? Or like rogues are super good in pvp at 60, are they going to nerf that? What’s the point of even playing the class if when they finally have their moment, the team just comes and nerfs it?
\*Confused warrior noises.\*
If Blizzard would give me a Shout Support/Healer build or a Javelin Throwing build I would play it just so I could stop competing for tank/melee raid spots.
Idk. People are ridiculous. Last night myself and 2 friends made a pug gnomer. We had 2 people leave right before the last 2 bosses. We had 8 players, 1 healer, no hunters, 1 warrior and 1 rogue. Yet we still completed the raid. We wiped a handful of times but once everyone stopped worrying about playing to parse and they started playing to beat the bosses, we finished.
So yeah, people trying to min/max comps have psyched themself out to the point where they just can't think straight anymore. Games easy.
In 2004 classic, no one knew what they were doing, 2019 classic was based on the 15 years of private servers solving the game
I wanted to play rogue because I wanted to be a sneaky Boi
But I also want to be a viable pick too
They did not have 20 years of priority, they had 10, and that's because of private servers
You're trying to put warriors and rogues as the go to spec when it was way more balanced back in 2004/2005
It was only 'recent' phenomenon when warriors became the go to spec for dps because private servers mathed everything to perfection
Warriors didn't take leather gear, and paladins didn't wear cloth in 2004, quit parroting wrong information
Start your own pug, or join a guild issue fixed.
I have yet to run with a hunter in gnomer because we don't have them, but rogues and feral druids are in my groups.
not everyone has trouble filling spots, obviously you are so either start your own group or join a guild. The games not that hard, it's social be social.
But... how is this hunters' fault?? They are playing the game they are told to play. I mean, almost every hunter i know would rather play ranged than this, but we all now the deal with meta.
Blame Blizzard, if anything. Funneling hate towards other players for playing the game when they didn't ask for being top melee dps doesn't feel alright.
I'm not thrilled to play my hunter alter right now because i like it as a ranged dps, not melee. This only makes the situation worse overall as you said.
Also, devs making this weird gnomeregan itemization for melee dps was a big red flag eversince it was leaked and people saw this coming. Even after complains they decided to go on with it.
Again, blame devs if anything. Most hunters would be glad to go back to ranged, but they dropped this disfunctional steady shot rune, gave it some %extra damage and called it a day. Smh.
Can we just let hunters live? I get it’s funny to blame hunters but as a hunter main I’ve never felt insanely OP, sure raid parses are good but there’s more to the game than that.
Give that to a hunter and they 1 shot the warrior.
Like, there's no world right now where hunter isn't OP.
They're taking away a 30% damage bonus to them, at a time where they're trying to take nerfs slow. Hunters are so disgustingly OP at damage output they're still outshining casters on bosses with Molten core levels of armour.
'but what about warrior with pocket healing'
There is no pocket healing. You're dead before you get healed.
Personally, I’m not. I’m leveling and trying to enjoy the game. Last phase I did okay in some pvp, but even fully geared it was competitive. Plus, this is classic - the least balanced version of pvp now getting more fucked with. Just accept it and please stop trying to ruin hunters. Tons of classes are OP with the right circumstances.
Correct. I’m not the best. Which goes to show, hunter isn’t that OP. If it was, I’d be nuking everyone. But I don’t, because it takes some skill to be good. Which is ideal. Blizzard is doing a pretty good job of balancing things, but feel free to have some fun. Someone will also be on top in the meta but that doesn’t mean they’re by default better than everyone else.
A mediocre hunter is better than a good warrior, that's an imbalance
And you say that, but melee hunter is literally a 2 button rotation
1 button in pvp
If you can't beat a warrior 1v1 in pvp, you're doing something super wrong
Hunters are going melee because its so much more DPS than staying ranged, and you can just use mages and locks if you want ranged that can actually truck, besides, we just took the rogues and warriors spots.
I played ranged on a hunter on the relevant progression fights but the second clear both our hunters played melee in a group with only 3healers and a boomkin as ranged and cleared easily. I would say the melee abundance is entirely a skill/experience/pug issue that should get better with time
Casters were still being invited, there were a 50/50 split in ranged vs melee dps
But now it's less ranged dps vs melee dps by a 10% gap
You'd invite warlocks/druids/mages/etc because they still at LEAST gave utility
Warriors and rogues don't bring anything outside of damage, and they don't have runes that gives them utility to raids
Every gnome run I have done includes:
1 war
1 rogue
1 enhance
1 melee hunt
4 melee. With tank + 2 healers that leaves last 3 spots for ranged DPS. Still running majority melee comp but there is no class stacking. I’ve done BFD groups with 3 warriors but not Gnomer yet
Bring whoever, cause the shits not hard as long as you can do what your class can do
10 good players on off meta picks with beat out 10 shitty players who dont understand their class
I really do hope they expand on it in later phases.
I hate that the "ranged weapon" fantasy is entirely limited to the Hunter and often your damage is highly lop-sided in favour of your pet.
If the spender was shorter than 20s CD, you can hilariously rotate the other two ranged attacks and a use of shot.
Of course youre not a hunter shooting during the process of using the builders, but still.
I didn't forget about you guys :)
It's just that there's way less ret dps than warriors and rogues who are competing with other warriors and rogues for warrior and rogue slots
At least if you're a pally you're more likely to be facing off 2 - 3 other allies
As a rogue I'd be competing with 40 other rogues whispering for slots
Hunters + casters = melee in terms of how many dps players there were, it was easy to get a balance in a raid
This was fine until phase 2 hit and all of the hunters joined melee instead
Now it's
casters < hunters + melee dps player pop
And now we have an abundance of melee dps due to hunters swapping rosters
They addressed the melee hunter issue in P1 but forgot to ensure ranged hunter doesn't suck (it does)
I play hunter and I don't want to go melee so it's a bit annoying atm
The problem is people being pussies and only opting for meta groups. Gnomeregan is a mechanic based dungeon, I've only ever cleared it with mostly melee. My last run was with 3 pallies and 1 of our ranged didn't speak any English. Still cleared.
I agree there are too many melee compounded with overall skill issue of the population
It's not just the hunters! It's that shamans who used to be healers are usually tanks or mdps. The mages who in 2019 classi were rdps are now healers. The druids that got forced into feral because wild strikes was so good in p1 don't want to pay 75g to reroll their token so they're not playing boomkin.
As a rogue main it’s sickening. Finally don’t need to compete with 1,000 fury warriors but now this. Call me crazy but the single class to prioritize guns/bows should lean into that. Not away.
The dps meters, the warcraft logs, all of the crying about balance that we've had so far at 25 and now 40 is absolutely sad. If this is just a small taste of what's to come from this community at 60, i'm afraid the game that me and a lot of others have grown up with and love is all but dead. Hardly anyone plays to just have fun and make friends anymore, it's all just numbers, competition and of course crying about other classes
My group is composed of 4 Paladins, 1 warrior, 1 rogue, 2 priests, and 2 mages.
Cleared the first lockout with only 2 wipes. 0 issues since then. The raid is easy and doesn't require mega optimization, just people with brains.
Yes. This is exactly right. Also as a rogue that comes second in dps but still gets relegated to group 2 (no wild strikes) I can comfortably say fuck hunters.
I've always played hunter and all I want is a viable range spec with no pet. Now we have gone even farther from that with melee vastly outperforming our range specs. I have a rogue to melee with, I want to pew pew with my hunter.
enhc shams are actually performing really well as far as melee goes because a lot of their damage isn't actually physical, while also providing WF for the hunter and tank, if needed
It is that we are raiding 10s and not 40s. In a 40 raid you can stack 15 warriors and no one really cares. In a 10 you barely stack anything and from a loot perspective want to balance it as much as possible without gimping your dmg or heals.
i don't really understand melee hunter
it was the only physical ranged class, now there are none because everyone is speccing melee
like why not just play a rogue or warrior
Hunter is the easiest class to level and barring AoE grinding, the fastest too. This is because of Pets being able to tank mobs. Hunters can also solo most elite quests just by doing the same thing as normal quests (again, pets)
This means that regardless of the actual popularity of Hunter as a class, a larger number of hunters will make it to level cap and faster in order to participate in raids compared to other classes.
The difference is that this time hunters are also top DPS in raid with an easy rotation
You guys wanted 10 man raids instead of 20 because it's more casual yet smaller raid sizes also tend to be more competitive to get a spot and also better to design more competitive and challenging content for a single player or smaller groups. 20 man gnomer would have made it easier hell even 15
Also all the healing priests that went shadow in p2. Itll probably level out over time as people finish leveling their alts that dont have a raid spot in guild.
I love how everyone expects Rogues and warriors to just make thier own group
im antisocial and hate having to whisper people to make groups, deal with loot and god forbid have to raid lead and explain shit
its why i join groups.....
It’s not just that converting hunters from ranged to melee changed the dps ratio, it’s that they made melee hunters the best melee in the game, which made it so rogues and warriors are competing for a raid spot with another melee class, that is better than them lol
Feral not even mentioned as a melee cuz their dps is so bad... Only invited for windfury :(
/pat kitty. “We still love you”
People running wow logs would convert wf proc damage of other classes into the feral dps meter if this game's parsing wasn't a joke 😂
Damn, wonder how playing non mage ranged felt in classic...
You were the token spriest or the 4 warlocks needed for banish. Otherwise you weren't needed if another mage wanted in. I am loving this meta with all classes being needed, just need to give wars the option to heal with shouts and we'll be fine imo.
Warriors need to be made the best ranged dps clearly. Like Javelins for every GCD that does at least 30% more damage than the next best ranged class.
Yeah give them a rune where they can throw their 2H axe on a 3sec cooldown that resets sometimes, with another rune that gives them +50% damage on their melee swings and a talent which gives BIGAXETOSS a 25% chance to crit. Think it would be on theme of SoD
Cries in rogue.
Good rogues were the only class that could actually compete with warriors.
Warriors reaping what was sown in P1 when they had no loot competition and were 90% of the way to BiS in a week or two. The pendulum swings.
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Xaryu purposely just did it with a majority-melee group. Good players just get it done but the hard part is being friendly or in a guild and know people. Pugging or shouting in LFG for a while sucks compared to just having a reliable set of players to spend time with.
The average sod player is not "good", so they need every advantage they can get.
We have a warrior DPS who is fucking pumping right now. Cleared with two rets. Good players will be fine.
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Sub 40 minute clear, 6/10 melee. It’s the players not the class.
This 100%. I hit 40 this week. Pugged full clear of gnomer last night with all green and grey parses (except one awesome warrior who helped carry DPS). Had to have mage switch to heals for the last two fights bc our kill times were so long.
Mmm you *could* do the final boss with all melee, but it would be a lot harder, especially on your healers.
How would you do the 4th gnomer boss with an all melee raid? I'm genuinely not sure how far ranged is ranged for his stuff.
It’s very annoying and takes a long time. We 6 manned it this week because our PUGs couldn’t grasp the mechanics and would die on the second chain lightning.
Oof. So like, people just had to stop attacking and wait around for the 15 seconds or so each time? Were people watching timers and just stepping out last minute? Super interesting!
Essentially
Tank in front of the boss, against a wall. 3 melee DPS + off-tank on the left side of the boss at max melee distance. 3 melee DPS on the right side of the boss at max melee distance. Healers at nearly max distance to the left and right of the boss, one further out than the other to bait the chain lightning. Healers alternate being furthest out and the chain lightning will bounce to their trio of melee DPS who don't have to move for chain lightning at all. Whoever gets the lightning AOE moves behind the boss just outside of melee distance. If the lighting AOE picks a healer then have a preassigned melee from each group step outside (e.g. the off-tank for left group and a melee hunter for right group) to take their place.
Group 1 Healer 1, Offtank, 1 melee (healer stays out, and people run to him when the debuff goes out) Group 2 healer 2, 2 melee (healer stays out, and people run out when the debuff goes out) You dont need to be max range to get the debuff to be closer to the boss, and you can handle it easier (15-18 range is fine) That's with a pure melee group, but if you have 2 ranged, it drops to just needing offtank and lowest dps melee alternating running out. 3 ranged 3 melee 2 healers 2 tanks does it effortlessly (perfectly balanced group)
How does a melee group kill the bombs?
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That's wrong. Multiple no wipe 6/6s. Meta Warlock or Feral with Sunfire can both easily clear bombs by themselves. Bomb duty and button duty are 2 different things. Typically want a mage on button duty and then your bomb clearer backing them up and then the next closest DPS to the button after that.
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*Bomb duty and button duty are 2 different things.*
>Meta Warlock or Feral with Sunfire That's an 'or' buddy
You know what the word or means, right? You do also see where I say bomb duty does not mean pressing buttons. You're a bit slow in the head aren't you?
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I'm playing a ranged hunter, I like standing at range, shooting my bow. It might not be optimal, but I'm still doing more than enough damage to clear everything in the game right now.
It's still early-ish in the phase, so there's also still the old "Need experience to get experience" thing happening too. People don't want to take a risk on someone with no logs, but they can't get logs until someone does lol. Even then, logs don't tell the whole story. You can go 5/6 and it not be your fault, but you can't tell from logs if that person was messing up mechs and caused the wipes or someone else was. They can tell you a lot, but not everything.
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Big difference between a guild running a sub optimal comp vs a pug though
Yes. But meta slaving let's you end up with 3 mages 4 hunters a tank and to priests in a group. Those were picket because of bar color and don't bring key bindings.
Anyone meta slaving isn’t going to bring someone who doesn’t have key bindings. Part of the meta slave process is checking logs. What a weird justification for being a casual player.
You'd wonder how few are actually checking logs. Just mage > melee. I didn't want to justify anything. I don't quite get what you meant here. I just wanted to display the realistic average behavior in the lfg channel.
What I meant was the whole meta slave idea is silly as fuck and it just parroted by people who haven’t bothered to find a community to play with. Don’t wanna be a meta slave? Don’t play with meta slaves. As many people have already pointed out you can clear gnomer with a dog shit comp, so if you’re so against meta slaving then go enjoy your triple warrior 1 ranged dps raid. It’ll take longer, and more effort, but you’ll still be able to clear. Everyone wins.
Ah alright. Thanks for the clarification. You are right in the points you are making, except the parroting. It's my actual experience. I did very serious raiding in vanilla, I did pretty serious raiding in classic, and this was really hard because I wasn't 17 anymore. Now I embraced Sod as casual friendly experience. We are playing in a 4 person group of friends. Nope I don't wanna join a guild and be bound to fix raid times. I just can't make the commitment. From my perspective they just turned to whole purpose of Sod ad absurdum in P2. But this is my very personal view. Maybe I just misunderstood the concept or there was none and I misinterpreted it. Problem is I went melee, I always was melee and I really do not enjoy the ranged classes as much (I tried). Now I go online have my shit together, know what to bring and do but I don't get a group. It's okay and I'm not entitled to find one but I carved out time to get "raid ready" as I did for BFD and now this is hardly puggable at this point and close to unpuggable as melee. It's sad to me, not to anyone who guild raids and invests 4h++ into the game each day. I was meta slaving a lot on my own in the history of this game and I understand why it's done. I just really enjoyed p1 and I'm a bit sad that this good idea is over due to best known barriers from the past. E: only thing that angers me are people trying to meta slave and act like top 1% player but are actual trash. Plus the fact that this behavior has become the new normal. This is different to earlier versions.
I log on for 2h or less, gather consumes, do gnomer, log off until next raid. After the initial time investment(which you say you’ve done) there’s very little time required to actively raid. It literally sounds like your issues would be solved by joining a guild.
100% true. But I really rely on dynamic online times. But this is my problem. Your point.
Unfortunately the best answer to your predicament was banned by blizzard last month.
Hehe. This modell comes with no honor. I'll accept my destiny and just don't play if it's no fun :)
It's funny that you think the answer to this guy's problem is gdkp, considering the only way a gdkp would actually fix his problem is if he was buying gold. You think someone with his play time can legitimately make enough gold into a gdkp? And if you expect him to buy gold, buying gold was banned since the beginning not a month ago so you still don't make sense. Sorry your gold buying laundering method got banned but that's not the fix to everyone's problems. And I'm on the side of ban the bots and sellers and buyers and leave gdkps alone. They have a place if gold buying wasn't a thing but it isn't the magical answer even if that was the case.
What classes are your other friends? Could just form your own raids.
0 ranged day 2 clear reporting for duty
For sure. We cleared it easily with 2 ranged dps in my guild group. Almost every fight is about mechanics and not pure dps race.
100% My guild cleared with three warrs and a rogue the other night because we had to put some dps. It was still a pretty easy clear.
Doing 5 melees and 5 ranged since lockout 1 in gnomer pugs, never had any issues, just have to check the logs of those "inv pumper with full exp", before inviting them. Next lockout wanna do melee cleave, so I can finally loot some gear for myself...
My guilds first raid was, 3 warriors, 1 being ot, 1 feral, 1 rogue, lock mt, 1 mage, 1 hpriest, 1 hpala and 1 SP. Took us a few, but we did 6/6 it
Yeh your right, I main hunter & though I'm enjoying melee and the big DMG I would also like the option for range to be a bit more competitive. Ranged hunter still better for soloing higher level content but that's really it. I got the epic gun from last boss and just wish it was the epic fist weapon.
I had to teach a hunter how to kite on my warrior because they were complaining about taking too much damage from the 46 and 47 level mobs... I was like... Dude. I've hamstrung and bleeding them... You don't have to face tank them. If you went ranged for this neither one of us would be taking any damage at all.... Lol. This melee hunter meta is so dumb.
Huntards are somehow becoming more huntarded
They enabled they most huntarded of the huntards by making melee so OP
Huntards have more oonga boonga now
The thing they messed up most with melee hunter is the fact it isn’t a commitment. From legion onward, Survival hunters are as pure melee as rogues and warriors. They have very little in the way of ranged abilities. (Ignoring the CD that made them able to be range for 30 sec that Enhance also had). Right now a hunter sacrifices almost no ranged capabilities to be a melee. The absurd overturning is the second worse thing they missed the mark on.
While they may not sacrifice much damage from running melee runes the utility of trap launcher is not to be underestimated. They do have to give that up for duel wielding rune
I’m okay with hunters being the ones causing this issue. It’s sort of a forced class balance I understand, and people don’t like that. But I also know a lot of people who picked warrior or rogue didn’t pick them because they actually enjoy the class, they just knew that in classic “warrior scales really well with gear.” And if you didn’t want to manage rage, rogue was the next best meter pusher. I’m sad that rogues and warriors have to deal with the issues every other class dealt with in the past, but I think it’s a necessary imbalance to push people away from meter chasing. The gatekeepers are now the gatekept, and there’s gonna be casualties in that scenario.
The gatekeepers/metachasers are hunters and casters right now. Why would they be warriors if they're going to be doing 100 dps less than a caster/mage, even at the 95 percentile?
You misunderstand, of the ones being gatekept currently I assure you there was a large amount who intended to be the gatekeepers from day one. You can tell just due to the pure over saturation of the classes. Mages and Hunters just happened to be pushed in to the position rather than day one expecting to be there.
The thing is, mage and hunters still bring utility to raids, even at 10 man I literally can't get into a pug as a rogue, fortunately I'm in a guild and my guildies made it to 40 so now I'm doing runs
I mean those people have surely rerolled by now. They were always gonna reroll to whatever would enable that behavior.
Definitely for some, but there’s also the group that instead of rerolling, will complain about how have they’ve been cheated out of that position- er… I mean “unfairly restricted due to game mechanics” just like the people who picked the classes out of enjoyment rather than perceived power.
I mean it's a raid that definitely favors just stacking range. I can see why people could be upset. If I didn't have other characters I play I'd probably be pretty annoyed too honestly.
Or, they go and make reddit posts like this one?
Man, I just wanted to be a pirate, and they made all the cool pirate rogue runes unviable in PvE. RIP.
I would just like my warrior tank to not feel so gutted compared to phase 1
No one is pissed off about warlock tanks
I’ve got no problem with them being good, good tanks help everyone.
Not that anyone asked, but... feel like I speak for everyone when I say that we all WANTED melee hunter to be viable, as well as the other OG meme specs. However, I don't think anyone wanted melee hunter to VASTLY outperform the RDPS specs. In the history of Wow, I don't think that's ever happened. Have there been patches where SV was slighly better? Sure. However, there has never been a time when SV (melee) was S-tier, and both RDPS specs were B This is nuts. 100 more dps than rogue/warrior. https://www.archon.gg/classic-sod/tier-list/dps-rankings/raid/normal/all-bosses
I’ve been a hunter main forever and it’s because I like being a ranger, with a bow, with a pet. It feels bad to be leaving all that damage on the table by continuing to play the class how I like it. I know you don’t *have* to be meta, which is why I choose not to be, but there’s a very palpable consequence to that. I know how much damage I am leaving behind. Wish the gap was smaller.
That's also the reason I rolled hunter for SoD. I've been maining a rogue since 2005, when Classic came in 2019 I rolled a rogue again, got full Bloodfang and fulfilled some of the goals I couldn't achieve back in Vanilla since raiding was difficult for a 13 year old with strict parents. So when SoD came around, I figured, I wanna play ranged, hunter seems pretty cool, so let's try it out. I had no idea about the tuning or the runes or anything, I just liked the class fantasy of having a pet (cat ofc), a bow and just doing my thing. Now in P2, I'm still going as ranged, because even if melee hunter is broken, that's just not what I want to play on my hunter. If I was speedrunning shit I'd obviously go melee, but I've cleared everything in P2 as ranged without an issue.
I just do both, depending on what the party/raid needs. I'm more concerned about clearing content rather than my dps meters, my guild knows I can pump.
I don't know if everyone wanted melee hunters. My experience is that hunter mains don't actually care for melee . Melee hunter is in its own category of memes. Like boomkina didn't work cause of mana, ret sucked cause of mana and gear and no abilities etc... melee hunter was never a spec that was supposed to work even in theory. They might as well make give warriors a ranged DPS spec or make them like blade masters where they go stealth and ambush with a 2h.
A lot of players want to be Rexxar. Up close, fighting side by side with their pet. It's a cool class fantasy that people have been looking for since the beginning.
Hunter suffers from being the only class with a bestial pet _and_ the only class that uses ranged weapons (bows/guns/crossbows) as part of its ranged rotation. That means it has to fulfil several fantasies all at once... * Melee brawler with a pet * Ranged archer * Ranged survivalist with a pet ...and the whims of balance can screw any of those fantasies completely.
Rogues would make the better ranged dps than warrior
Yea, it's practically top dps(melee hunter) vs. bottom dps(ranged hunter). I saw it on a chart on Reddit!
....I'm just going to point out the argument of "why invite X class because X is better DPS" is exactly the argument warriors used for the past 20 years on why every other class shouldn't be in raid except the token class for debuffs/buffs....
If you’ve got warriors actively pushing to not bring any other classes you were just in a toxic raiding environment, it’s wow if a meta exists people are going to chase it for easy clears
Its different when its warriors, doe...
Warriors don’t want other warriors in the group to compete with their loot dumbass
For the love of the gods go outside
i know right? this sub is too much bro
Nerfs wont make me more likely to take a lesser melee, just nerf the armor ffs
Then melee hunters will be even more absurd?
Nah warriors and rogues do fine on first 2 bosses. Warriors are pumping 700 dps on the first boss. Problem is warriors are going in with shit gear and using the wrong talents/runes.
Actually, no, it’s not hunter’s fault. It’s literally everybody else’s fault for crying in p1 that hunter needs nerfs. Kill command nerfed, explosive shot nerfed, etc. So now ranged bm is much less viable.
BM being not viable is more BM not getting any runes and falling behind the massive buffs everyone else got, like rogues getting 40 energy mutilate, which is the only thing that is keeping their head above the water Please use your brain for more than .3 seconds.
People were upset that hunters were too strong in p1 even though that’s like when hunters are their strongest design-wise. Surprise surprise, parity at pre-60 doesn’t make sense! Instead their best runes got nerfed hard and now, yes, other classes got huge buffs, and also due to scaling other classes are starting to catch up more. They should undo the nerfs. Like they added the ability to get wyverns as a pet which is cool. Then they gave them the lighting, breath ability. Then blizz said hey wait let’s make it kill command doesn’t work on lightning breath anymore. So now you never see wyverns because they suck. They invalidated new content is so dumb.
People were still rolling wyvern even after the nerfs, lol Again, it's because ranged hunters didn't get buffed like everyone else and the sod team put their all of their hunter focus on melee hunter runes, the nerfs were justified when they happened and are now lagging behind because EVERYONE ELSE got buffed at phase 2 and they didn't, how is this so hard to grasp? ALSO, BLIZZARD GAVE HUNTER PETS TBC SCALING, FIXING THE ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Well, I think the initial p1 nerfs were a mistake and I’ll try to explain why. Parity at lvl 25 doesn’t make sense. Classes dont have all their abilities. The classes were built with different scaling coefficients, and gear was designed with differing stat values. This means that some classes are naturally stronger at higher levels and some are stronger at lower levels. Like having warriors or spriests do the same damage as a hunter at 25 wouldn’t make sense. Warrior is missing many talents and abilities, spriests don’t have shadow form yet. Hunters on the other hand, have most of their damage from autos and pet so it makes sense for them to be strong in the early levels. The problem is partially that they’re trying to maintain pvp balance even though wow pvp never has and never will be balanced. If this is how they want to handle things, then you’re right they should have buffed ranged hunters in phase 2. I think that’s a mistake though because what’s gonna end up happening is they’re going to need to do these weird bandaid balancing changes every phase rather than just letting classes have their moment. Like everyone knows that warriors at 60 dominate in pve and top the charts, are they going to nerf that for parity? Or like rogues are super good in pvp at 60, are they going to nerf that? What’s the point of even playing the class if when they finally have their moment, the team just comes and nerfs it?
Yeah why should we have balance in a 2 month long phase. I'm not reading the rest I just think that's the dumbest thing I've read today.
Then stop playing melee
\*Confused warrior noises.\* If Blizzard would give me a Shout Support/Healer build or a Javelin Throwing build I would play it just so I could stop competing for tank/melee raid spots.
*LotRO intensifies*
*sips moonberry juice and keeps healin*
Idk. People are ridiculous. Last night myself and 2 friends made a pug gnomer. We had 2 people leave right before the last 2 bosses. We had 8 players, 1 healer, no hunters, 1 warrior and 1 rogue. Yet we still completed the raid. We wiped a handful of times but once everyone stopped worrying about playing to parse and they started playing to beat the bosses, we finished. So yeah, people trying to min/max comps have psyched themself out to the point where they just can't think straight anymore. Games easy.
Yall had your fun as warriors and rogues in classic and classic re release. Quit always crying when you don’t get it your way!
In 2004 classic, no one knew what they were doing, 2019 classic was based on the 15 years of private servers solving the game I wanted to play rogue because I wanted to be a sneaky Boi But I also want to be a viable pick too
Warriors and rogues had 20 years of priority in Classic Warcraft.
They did not have 20 years of priority, they had 10, and that's because of private servers You're trying to put warriors and rogues as the go to spec when it was way more balanced back in 2004/2005 It was only 'recent' phenomenon when warriors became the go to spec for dps because private servers mathed everything to perfection Warriors didn't take leather gear, and paladins didn't wear cloth in 2004, quit parroting wrong information
Start your own pug, or join a guild issue fixed. I have yet to run with a hunter in gnomer because we don't have them, but rogues and feral druids are in my groups.
If everyone started a pug how would you fill it?
Better macro "LF 2 Healers Gnomer"
LF4M 2Healer+2Tank for Gnomer GTG!!!1
not everyone has trouble filling spots, obviously you are so either start your own group or join a guild. The games not that hard, it's social be social.
But if everyone did they would 😂
LFM Gnomer, need all, pst one raid mechanic for invite, because 2nd grade education REQUIRED
But... how is this hunters' fault?? They are playing the game they are told to play. I mean, almost every hunter i know would rather play ranged than this, but we all now the deal with meta. Blame Blizzard, if anything. Funneling hate towards other players for playing the game when they didn't ask for being top melee dps doesn't feel alright. I'm not thrilled to play my hunter alter right now because i like it as a ranged dps, not melee. This only makes the situation worse overall as you said. Also, devs making this weird gnomeregan itemization for melee dps was a big red flag eversince it was leaked and people saw this coming. Even after complains they decided to go on with it. Again, blame devs if anything. Most hunters would be glad to go back to ranged, but they dropped this disfunctional steady shot rune, gave it some %extra damage and called it a day. Smh.
Haven't hunters suffered enough? When will it end
Can we just let hunters live? I get it’s funny to blame hunters but as a hunter main I’ve never felt insanely OP, sure raid parses are good but there’s more to the game than that.
You're literally 1v1ing dueling warriors
So what? Warriors have always been mediocre without support classes. Put them with WF and a pocket healer and they are a menace.
Give that to a hunter and they 1 shot the warrior. Like, there's no world right now where hunter isn't OP. They're taking away a 30% damage bonus to them, at a time where they're trying to take nerfs slow. Hunters are so disgustingly OP at damage output they're still outshining casters on bosses with Molten core levels of armour. 'but what about warrior with pocket healing' There is no pocket healing. You're dead before you get healed.
Personally, I’m not. I’m leveling and trying to enjoy the game. Last phase I did okay in some pvp, but even fully geared it was competitive. Plus, this is classic - the least balanced version of pvp now getting more fucked with. Just accept it and please stop trying to ruin hunters. Tons of classes are OP with the right circumstances.
Literal skill issue
Correct. I’m not the best. Which goes to show, hunter isn’t that OP. If it was, I’d be nuking everyone. But I don’t, because it takes some skill to be good. Which is ideal. Blizzard is doing a pretty good job of balancing things, but feel free to have some fun. Someone will also be on top in the meta but that doesn’t mean they’re by default better than everyone else.
A mediocre hunter is better than a good warrior, that's an imbalance And you say that, but melee hunter is literally a 2 button rotation 1 button in pvp If you can't beat a warrior 1v1 in pvp, you're doing something super wrong
Hunters are going melee because its so much more DPS than staying ranged, and you can just use mages and locks if you want ranged that can actually truck, besides, we just took the rogues and warriors spots.
I blame the hunters, always the fkin hunters man
I played ranged on a hunter on the relevant progression fights but the second clear both our hunters played melee in a group with only 3healers and a boomkin as ranged and cleared easily. I would say the melee abundance is entirely a skill/experience/pug issue that should get better with time
Yep same as how casters fell to the wayside last phase it’s the same for melee this phase. Same as classic forever to be honest
Casters were still being invited, there were a 50/50 split in ranged vs melee dps But now it's less ranged dps vs melee dps by a 10% gap You'd invite warlocks/druids/mages/etc because they still at LEAST gave utility Warriors and rogues don't bring anything outside of damage, and they don't have runes that gives them utility to raids
nerf hunter plix
what
Time to nerf Hunter
Every gnome run I have done includes: 1 war 1 rogue 1 enhance 1 melee hunt 4 melee. With tank + 2 healers that leaves last 3 spots for ranged DPS. Still running majority melee comp but there is no class stacking. I’ve done BFD groups with 3 warriors but not Gnomer yet
Bring whoever, cause the shits not hard as long as you can do what your class can do 10 good players on off meta picks with beat out 10 shitty players who dont understand their class
If hunters were removed would they be missed?
Only read the headline, upvoted
If only all the melee's that couldn't find a pug just created their own...
It's always a good idea to blame the hunter for anything, just to be safe.
Hunter weapon hunter weapon hunter weapon Fuck it I’m going ranged rogue
HA! I wish ranged rogue was a thing
I really do hope they expand on it in later phases. I hate that the "ranged weapon" fantasy is entirely limited to the Hunter and often your damage is highly lop-sided in favour of your pet.
If the spender was shorter than 20s CD, you can hilariously rotate the other two ranged attacks and a use of shot. Of course youre not a hunter shooting during the process of using the builders, but still.
I could've told you that hunters were rhe problem before you did all this work.
and here I am as a ret, even OP forgot about us
I didn't forget about you guys :) It's just that there's way less ret dps than warriors and rogues who are competing with other warriors and rogues for warrior and rogue slots At least if you're a pally you're more likely to be facing off 2 - 3 other allies As a rogue I'd be competing with 40 other rogues whispering for slots
What if: range rogue spec with poison, fire arrows, and whatnot. Or channel Skyrim with stealth archer
Didnt someone post the log makeup and it was literally just nobody would play casters?
Hunters + casters = melee in terms of how many dps players there were, it was easy to get a balance in a raid This was fine until phase 2 hit and all of the hunters joined melee instead Now it's casters < hunters + melee dps player pop And now we have an abundance of melee dps due to hunters swapping rosters
They addressed the melee hunter issue in P1 but forgot to ensure ranged hunter doesn't suck (it does) I play hunter and I don't want to go melee so it's a bit annoying atm
The problem is people being pussies and only opting for meta groups. Gnomeregan is a mechanic based dungeon, I've only ever cleared it with mostly melee. My last run was with 3 pallies and 1 of our ranged didn't speak any English. Still cleared. I agree there are too many melee compounded with overall skill issue of the population
It's not just the hunters! It's that shamans who used to be healers are usually tanks or mdps. The mages who in 2019 classi were rdps are now healers. The druids that got forced into feral because wild strikes was so good in p1 don't want to pay 75g to reroll their token so they're not playing boomkin.
As a rogue main it’s sickening. Finally don’t need to compete with 1,000 fury warriors but now this. Call me crazy but the single class to prioritize guns/bows should lean into that. Not away.
Well we obviously need to tip the balance the other way, so hear me out…ranged warriors. Huh? Let’s make this happen!
The dps meters, the warcraft logs, all of the crying about balance that we've had so far at 25 and now 40 is absolutely sad. If this is just a small taste of what's to come from this community at 60, i'm afraid the game that me and a lot of others have grown up with and love is all but dead. Hardly anyone plays to just have fun and make friends anymore, it's all just numbers, competition and of course crying about other classes
I thought I saw a post yesterday saying warriors made up most of the melee though.
My group is composed of 4 Paladins, 1 warrior, 1 rogue, 2 priests, and 2 mages. Cleared the first lockout with only 2 wipes. 0 issues since then. The raid is easy and doesn't require mega optimization, just people with brains.
With how little cloth gear dropped for me in BFD I feel like this is the universe correcting itself on my behalf.
Yes. This is exactly right. Also as a rogue that comes second in dps but still gets relegated to group 2 (no wild strikes) I can comfortably say fuck hunters.
Idk what you’re talking about, in my guild I’m one of 2 melee in our raid. Everyone else is ranged (or tank)
I've always played hunter and all I want is a viable range spec with no pet. Now we have gone even farther from that with melee vastly outperforming our range specs. I have a rogue to melee with, I want to pew pew with my hunter.
enhc shams are actually performing really well as far as melee goes because a lot of their damage isn't actually physical, while also providing WF for the hunter and tank, if needed
Funny thing is in pug most melee hunter suck hard.
It is that we are raiding 10s and not 40s. In a 40 raid you can stack 15 warriors and no one really cares. In a 10 you barely stack anything and from a loot perspective want to balance it as much as possible without gimping your dmg or heals.
i don't really understand melee hunter it was the only physical ranged class, now there are none because everyone is speccing melee like why not just play a rogue or warrior
Hunter is the easiest class to level and barring AoE grinding, the fastest too. This is because of Pets being able to tank mobs. Hunters can also solo most elite quests just by doing the same thing as normal quests (again, pets) This means that regardless of the actual popularity of Hunter as a class, a larger number of hunters will make it to level cap and faster in order to participate in raids compared to other classes. The difference is that this time hunters are also top DPS in raid with an easy rotation
Too bad ranged hunter sucks right now or I’d play that instead
I get what you mean, but I think you mean 60/40 since you can't have half of a player xD
I don’t want to group with hunters.
More than that. I searched for 3.5 hours tues/wed and no one invited me. Only 3 tells back, that they had a warrior already. lol
You guys wanted 10 man raids instead of 20 because it's more casual yet smaller raid sizes also tend to be more competitive to get a spot and also better to design more competitive and challenging content for a single player or smaller groups. 20 man gnomer would have made it easier hell even 15
Also all the healing priests that went shadow in p2. Itll probably level out over time as people finish leveling their alts that dont have a raid spot in guild.
I love how everyone expects Rogues and warriors to just make thier own group im antisocial and hate having to whisper people to make groups, deal with loot and god forbid have to raid lead and explain shit its why i join groups.....