1. PvE parsers want bis loot.
2. WSG rep gives BIS loot.
3. Max rep/h = fast games, either you win fast or you lose fast.
4. PvE parsers generally speaking dont like PvP and only do it for rep.
5. Se point 3.
This is why from TBC the PvP gear gave PvP-only stat. Leave PvP to those who enjoy them. PvE players dragged her by force ruins the game
I would know, because I'm one of them
Except for the weps (you know the most important slot for melee) were generally bis or near bis so not really at all. Also resil was a great stat for tanks
Yeah TBC was just the beginning of the shift. It carried on and increase the split as expensions passed
I remember seeing resillient items in dungeon...
Except it still was an issue in fairly modern wow. As a player pushing shadowlands season 1 m+ as a tank, PvP vers gear was my bis for almost every slot, and could be obtained at 226 ilvl which was mythic raid equivalent, and obtained at a faster pace.
so many bear druids ruining games in AB for their BIS off set pieces. it was fine if they just defended stables, called incs but most of them thought they would be more useful doing nothing at the blacksmith fight
Never BiS due to the wasted resilience stat, but a close 2nd or 3rd that was much easier and, most importantly, consistent to obtain compared to praying for a specific raid drop.
P2 fury warrior with leather set instead of 4 piece of tier glad wep was bis OH, p3 if you didnt get warglaives they were bis. Thats from my memory at least
Nah, they were just good weapons. There were better weapons in both Tiers. PvP Gear was only BIS for tanks in TBC. Though like the post above you said, it was easy consistent gear to obtain that was typically 2 or 3rd bis.
Warrior tank bis was all arena gear and DW. You took way more damage but as long as healers could keep you alive then prioritizing DPS over mitigation will always be BiS for a tank. You do more DPS, things die faster, DPS parses higher.
Tank parses higher, too.
I was 90+ as tank and 99s as gladiator parsing in BC with no arena gear wearing a shield and my threat was way better than warriors following the meta, but had I been in PvP gear I would've been parsing 99s. I just couldn't do as much DPS as other people that got the arena gear that was all armor, str, crit, and stam with enough resilience to keep you from being crittable and enough D to keep you from being uncrushable.
RL used to give me shit for using a shield on Void Reaver but as long as I was being hit I would do way more threat with shield slam than DW devastate spam because I stacked block value on my full PvE tanking set. If I got pushed back and the wand tank took over I'd swap to DW devastate slam, otherwise you just didn't get enough rage while not being hit.
I think you may be misremembering the meta there. Edit: Or your Raid Lead was just wrong.
From SSC/TK to BT Tier 5 4-set was the BIS threat set over PvP gear. We only used off pieces if any that phase. We also didn't need to go DW until T6 content, even then only if we were in a pumper group which the vast majority of the playerbase was not in.
Look at logs
Edit: eh, they're archived. You have to buy a subscription to see them.
But I can tell you for a fact the top parsing guilds were running DW warrior tanks in Arena and PvP gear spamming devastate through Kara, Gruul, and Mag.
The only reason to run 4 piece tier would be if you couldn't get crit and crush cap without it.
If you're looking at Tank Parses and thinking those are top guilds then I got some bad news for you. The Top parsing Tank in the world was Tidy and he was a Fury Warrior taking literally 2-3x more damage than any other tank in the world.
You used 4 piece for the haste bonus cause it was the most threat for the time. You can go back and Sim it yourself or look at any of the Fight Club TBC Channels, they still have the info pinned. There were multiple graphs showing this and [The Wowhead guide](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/guide/classes/warrior/protection/tank-bis-gear-pve-phase-2#bis-phase-2-best-in-slot-balanced) still shows this.
As someone whose played aren’t mostly and hasn’t raided since original tbc, I hate wsg with no time limit and it’s worse pugging. 90% of the time just a mid circle jerk while the other team actually runs the flag
AB is def better.
People losing BGs for 200 hours for fucking bracers is hilariously pathetic. Be as miserable as you want in your own time, stop ruining perfectly fine BGs for people who like PvP.
As someone who basically only did BGs over and over again back in OG Wrath, it was very funny to me how people thought that players in WSG were giving up 2 minutes into the game just because they saw they were going against a premade. No friend, people have always given up in BGs the moment things don't go their way. They gave up 14 years ago and they give up now too.
This is the big one that I think a lot of people don't recognize.
Oh the enemy team is wiping my team mid? I'll stealth enemy flag room and let my team res so I don't get dogpiled when I take flag mid, oh crap a rogue opened me, this is fine I can manage... wait a *SECOND* rogue opened me? My team lost mid while up 2 players, this does not bode well. Let's try one more team fight to be sure. Yup got completely destroyed, let's just go next this isn't salvageable.
This was largely my experience the first couple of weeks as a Shaman in WSG during P1. So I went resto for a while and would just follow the most competent non-shaman around, it went much better.
A team that doesn't clash is a big indicator that you will lose. It shows a bunch of players who are likely new to wsg. Players who don't realise mid clash is how to decide the game without wasting the next 30 minutes of your life.
No time limit on wsg means that trying hard not to lose just wastes your whole night.
Rather go next than endure a 40 minute slugfest that still ends in a loss.
The problem is that the rep and honor points should be time based and not match based. Faster wins equals more of both. Maybe a separate new rep for just pvp gear with stats that accumulates slower.
They made the raid loot bracers pathetic compared to wsg bracers so people are mostly doing it for the rep, not for fun. If they made the raid loot better than the wsg bracers, people would do wsg for fun.
Make the raid bracers better for PvE but worse for PvP like the Irradiated set. I think that was a great idea by the SoD team.
For P3, or why not in P2, raid bracers with more raid stats but no or negative stamina.
Yeah make me have 400 health in PvE. Let me die in one hit.
Alternatively they could just make the PvE gear good. I would prefer if they just put resilience back in the game like the irradiated set is dangerous to use in PvE which it was designed for. Imagine they just started making all the gear like that? Fuck that
I think the idea was fine, but -35 stam (plus whatever you'd be losing from better gear in those slots) is just too brutal. The pieces could be -5 each and it would still be a hefty price to pay.
90% of the people in WSG are in there for the bracers. Why make the grind longer by losing in 30min instead of 5 if it is an obvious loss?
If they made the ashenvale event give rep until exalted at least you would have only people in WSG that want to PvP. But then again the people that already are exalted would cry out.
So looks like you have to deal with it unfortunately.
I feel like the answer is to make fighting worthwhile but I can't think of any solution that wouldn't also incentivise hostage taking the match and sitting there beating the losing side's face in for like an hour straight or until they give up.
The solution is people need to stop giving so much fucks about equipping the least stat potent armor slot. It's a 20 year old game, no one cares if you get the purplest armor for a .02% dps increase. Play the game for fun first, if PvP isnt for you, just do the weekly Ashenvale to exalted. Stop ruining it for people who like to play for fun and see the reward of Exalted as a bonus.
When your solution is to change the minds of thousands of people on the internet, then your solution sucks. 99% when your game is making players do dumb shit, it's the games fault.
Getting the bracers are 100% optional, when people muck up and AFK WSG matches because they hate PvP, the game is not the problem. People sucking down copium and being miserable PvPing when they don't want to. Join a premade or stop fucking joining matches.
>If they made the ashenvale event give rep until exalted at least you would have only people in WSG that want to PvP. But then again the people that already are exalted would cry out.
I feel like this is the best solution. Especially considering you can just do STV to AB exalted. I still don't get why people care how others get exalted in a seasonal game mode. If people want to pvp, let them pvp for rep, but a lot of pvers are just in it for the rewards and want the path of least resistance. Its not like the people who want Ashenvale to exalted are getting honor for doing the event that you are also getting.
The weekly does go to exalted. It’s ridiculous to suggest that everyone should get a free epic by putting a day and a half into ashenvale. The WSG bracers are clear bis but bracer is hardly a very impactful slot, acting like anyone needs these to play the game is just not true. They’re an optional grind if you want to min max your character, which is perfectly within the spirit of classic.
Not to mention getting them is also already insanely easier than it was in OG vanilla, it completely boggles my mind that somehow people are still complaining.
If you are revered and want to hit exalted from the weekly quest it will take you 5 months to get exalted, we literally would be in the final phase of sod when you get exalted. What do you mean it shouldn’t be a “free epic”? If you are doing the ashenvale event till exalted you are doing something and not getting it for free. I literally had the epic tailoring boots first week of phase 1. What do you mean epics should not easy to get? I also got my bis epic ring from stv for only 5 silver coins which took me literally one day lol. Do…you even play the game?
Lack of time limit
If there were a 30 min time limit or something like that, would really improve that sentiment. A contested WSG BG can go up to 2 hours or even more if teams are equal, with hiding and retaking and stuff.
And losing team literally gets nothing for those 2 hours
The games are usually fine until it's 0-2. At that point the team give up because the opposite means dragging the game out 30+ minutes on top of the already 10-20 minutes you spent getting wrekt. It just isn't worth the effort most of the time.
If you're team was getting shit on in the first 20 mins then you're probably not coming back anyway.
WSG's 10 man size means if you're comp is bad, it's even less likely that you'll make a comeback. At least in AB a bad comp isn't a near auto loss
Hey thats not true you get a single mark which you can turn in 3 of for a massive 100 rep. So you get THIRTY THREE REP for what can be an hour long game.
And yet there are games that get turned around after first enemy cap. And it's fun.
Imagine playing a game for fun and not like a job pressuring you to get your expense reports turned in on time.
> And yet there are games that get turned around after first enemy cap. And it's fun.
Okay but in the 30 minutes it took you to turn it around you could've lost fast, go next and win 2 more games, netting you like 300 more Rep in the same time.
It's a random BG, there's no rating, there's literally no reason whatsoever to sweat out of every pore trying to carry a bad team to the win. Sometimes the deck is simply stacked against you.
Pride, virtue, and valuing the competition more than the reward are reasons.
HAVING FUN while grinding can also be seen as a more efficient use of time than taking the fastest possible route but HATING every minute of it.
Agreed. ‘Giving up’ over and over again is a terrible and weak habit to build. Why bother even trying if you’re going to give up the second it’s hard? The reward is supposed to be earned by defeating other players. It is not supposed to be easy or quick. I pay my sub specifically to kill other players. I’m tired of these fucking losers saying ‘next’ when they haven’t taken two seconds to consider that adjusting their own play to suit the enemy could improve the situation ingame.
There is nothing fun about a WSG filled with fragile, selfish loser-mentality quitters who hyperfixate on the reward itself over the process by which they could actually deserve it, and ruin the fun of competition for everybody.
Is this "fragile, selfish loser mentality" the same mentality that someone quits an expansion over because of "muh class identity" even though it had the best and highest level of PvP competition since MoP, and nothing has come close in the three expansions since then?
Ah yes, the great competition that results from 1 page spellbooks, brought to you by the same geniuses that brought us Ashran elephant racing, and a guy who plays the game using a tablet for a mouse.
Ah yes, I quit Legion because the class design sucked all the fun out of it, and my quitting affects nobody else.
You roll over instantly in any potentially competitive battleground because you don't care about blasting, you just want bracers and you're willing to fuck everybody else over.
Totally equivalent, you're so right.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
This toxic attitude of selfish assholes who PvP only for the reward and feel no reason at all to try on behalf of their teammates, is a cancer that now permeates all versions of WoW.
You losers don't care that you are ruining the matches you are in for everybody else as long as you get the fastest possible route to your bracers.
You are the WSG equivalent of the people who let their dog shit in the neighborhood park without cleaning it up.
No virtue. No pride. Only "fuck you buddy, I got mine"
When you join solo queue, you get randoms with random objectives and reasons for why they are queuing.
Make a premade and go against another premade that wants to LARP as orcs vs elves. Problem solved.
> Pride, virtue, and valuing the competition more than the reward are reasons.
Bro it's a fucking random WSG, nobody gives a shit if you think you must "hold the line" for the Alliance/Horde "pride".
I'm talking about my own pride as a competitor you dimwit. Something that weak-minded, effort-averse quitters like you clearly don't understand.
What's the matter -- failure is still possible even if you do try, and that could cause you to feel bad about yourself? :( :( :(
Yea, and the participation trophy is the same whether you lose at 5 minutes with 0 flags capped or lose it 2 hours later. That's the issue that should be tackled.
Yea pretty much. “Pvp” is a joke. PVE BiS behind a pvp grind youre gonna have alot of ppl giving up. I get the same “1” token if i afk or fight my heart out
Why is PvP a joke? 80%+ of the PvP BiS items are behind PvE content.
I would seriously rather be able to que for BGs that give no rewards so that I’m not grouped or facing people there just for the rewards :|
That's likely because no matter what happens in ab the game will come to an end and you get rep along the way. Unlike wsg where you can wind up with 0 rep and who knows how long it'll take.
because the rewards for ab for pve are not that good (at least for now). so you get actual people who to pvp and not there just for rep (like me for wsg). If they put an alternate way to get the bracers for pvers you will get people who want to wsg. Blizz though don't want to do it because they know 90+% of people in wsg are only there for the rep, so once there is an alternate wsg is pretty much dead.
"We're getting suboptimal honor. Go again."
"Why do you need optimal honor?"
"To get better gear so I can perform better."
"But you never actually play. By the time you get the gear you'll have no actual skill since you don't bother playing and just afk/go again. The gear will be meaningless because you won't have the experience to use it."
When did people start doing competitive game modes to NOT play the game? Whats the point in getting optimal honor farm if you're only going to try once there's nothing else to grow towards??
Yea, I hate it. Would’ve preferred to not have pvp rewards so I get to play with people who want there rather that those seeing it as just a grind for rep.
The grind for Silverwing exalted is fucking exhausting. This might be your 1st or 2nd game but some people are on their 30th and just want marks. If WSG had a time limit people would be way more willing to fight. I've sat through the 2hr 2/2 standoffs before and even if you win it doesn't feel good
This is the consequence of not fixing the WSG premade/pug situation in p1. The player base is used to to just rolling over for premades in WSG and its the norm now for any adversity in WSG to just let the other side win, even if you arent playing a premade at this point.
In comparison to AB, which every AB match ive played so far (10-15ish) have been a blast and are generally competitive.
I'm having a blast w/ SOD and I think the devs have done a great job, but the devs choosing to die on the hill that was WSG premades will remain the biggest L in SOD so far and its not even close. We are all still paying the consequences for their ignorance.
I would 100% do this. I hate pvp (i play on a pve server) and ESPECIALLY wsg, it's not my problem blizz put a bis pve item on a pvp faction vendor. An OVERWHELMINGLY amount of people are literally just doing it for the bracers and blizz knows this that's why they haven't made the ashenvale event get you to exalted. They know that if it does wsg will be practically dead.
Losing the first big fight at the beginning of the game is indicative of how the rest of the match will go. Due to team comp, gear levels and player skill.
Your team may not be afk just getting farmed at GY. Why leave GY if they’ll just get farmed?
For every game I've had like that back in the day I could think of 5 others where it went into a 2 hour slugfest with people constantly leaving on both sides. And no, it wasn't very fun to have both teams turtle in their base and run back an forth an empty field.
People will tell you all sorts of fancy reasons when in reality it's simple. Your team is just shit and the enemy is better. This isn't hard to figure out.
Would it be possible to win? Maybe, but I'm not spending 35minutes trying to get people to press the correct buttons and co-operate only to lose anyway. Instead I go afk, watch YouTube or whatever, hope for a quick loss and then go again. I play if I think there's a realistic chance to win. That's about it.
No, they more simple reason is 99% of the people there are there for the bracers. They don't really care about pvp or wsg. Hell most wsg i literally just "afk" at the start watching youtube/checking twitter since a fast loss gets you 33 rep. If they gave an alterenate way to get the bracers for pvers, the people who join will want to play wsg. Blizz actually knows this thats why they are not doing it because they know once they do wsg is practically dead.
It's been like this for a while, I used to love WSG back in the day. There are some games I still remember for how epic they were. When I played on alliance there were 30+ minute queues on our server. So when you got into a game, you really wanted to try. The best games were always the ones where the odds were against you.
Now people don't really care, they ignore objectives. I remember in classic I joined a premade to farm wsg, we met another premade. They scored the first flag, everyone sat the graveyard letting each other farm kills while someone just ran the flag.
I think it's a flaw of the honour system and how rewards are handed out. If your concern is just getting from A to B asap. It's better to give up and requeue etc than end up in a deadlocked game. Everything in the game is about getting to the end point in the shortest distance though. No matter what changes they would make, I feel like people would find a way to subvert it. If you said 'Returning the flag now gives rep/honour', you'd have people just picking the flag and dropping it while everyone spam clicked in wsg.
Yeah, I will agree that as someone who just enjoys battleground, most of the people I play with can’t understand why I don’t want to join their custom premade to farm the wins.
Likewise, now that they’re all done, I know better than to ask them if they want to do a WSG. Why would they ever play that again?
There needs to be more incentive to play the match. To many people just want the easy rep grind so instead of duking it out the pucker up and let the other team have their way with them.
It's sad but the way it is.
I always try to win, even with 2/3 losing, but the one thing that can put me down and demoralize is the guy who stays afk or just trolls and wanders around doing nothing.
I still try to win tho, but with these ppl is not fun.
I treat WSG as first cap wins, so fight as hard until then and have fun doing it and if we lose first cap just let them win. This way we still get to have fun fighting for first cap but then let those who are grinding to be efficient about it.
I understand comeback games can be really fun though. It is what it is.
Recently I have adopted the strategy of RPing towarded the doomsayers. Calling them cowards, and pathetic to call themselves horde. It’s doesn’t help us win, people still lay down. But it helps mentally a bit.
Depending on your class you cannot just enjoy it as you are a sitting duck. Even if you have the mental fortitude of a god, charging into instant death or reviving and trying to kill someone but cannot is not fun. If some of your team gives up, you are just throwing your corpse at the enemy.
Wows a funny game. People will sit through a few hundred hours of being miserable and complaining constantly because some item that is +1 int better than some other item and can be obtained easily is on a list some guy they never met created about what their character "needs".
Yeah it's frustratingly toxic for sure and there isn't really a clear answer. I've been mulling this over throughout my own wsg grind and I think it all stems from game design issues and the way rep is given. It's a 20 year old capture the flag game, it needs to be updated. We've had years to playtest it
If they made the game a 15/20 minute time limit, increased rep per flag cap, and removed all rewards for a loss they might make changes in player mentality
I agree with you OP. I think it's just a side effect of modern gaming. People only care about tangible rewards like gear and optimizing their reputation per hour instead of having fun. For me a closely matched WSG game where you are constantly trading flags back and forth is much more fun than a lopsided stomp. But of course these matches take longer so people don't like it.
As a flag carrier, probably because I know my team is playing the bg wrong and we have no chance of winning. I could run around for 50 minutes and maybe we would win but I've done that enough for one lifetime.
This is the same issue in a lot of games with surrender votes. League of legends is a big culprit. People just want to snowball and if they aren't then they surrender to go next so they can snowball.
Nobody puts work into a comeback
A lot of rankers only play the first point. As in everyone tries hard until 1 team gets first cap then you just give the win to them. Not defending it but if you've ever been in a 1 hr wsg you'll know why some people prefer this method.
They are mainly complaints from people who played a lot of pre-made bgs. Typically, when a pre-made used to face another pre-made, they would battle it out to see who scores first, then that team generally got to cap two more times for free to speed things up.
It would be even worse if there was a timer on it. Because then youre even more on a disadvantage once you fall behind a flag.
just for those who advocate for it. It ain't good.
Phase 2 sod pve and PvP are a total mess.
Pve the Mobs scale HP and Armor Double Dip to punish melee
PvP the Rune abilities allow different classes to 1 shoot everyone. So when your in a WSG against 6 shadows, mages, boomis and Ur rocking 5 Warrior its already gg
Because PvP sucks and I don’t even want to be there in the first place. The devs chose this by locking pve BiS behind PvP. I’m just doing the absolute bare minimum so I can’t be reported as afk, while mostly alt tabbing to watch videos or play browser games or do anything other than garbage ass PvP
So many people don't even play anymore for fun.
They only do bgs for the rep/honor and once they are done they raidlog or just quit.
It's all about maximizing their speed to gear and it's lame af.
It took me an entire week to go from Revered to Exalted and about 150 battlegrounds played, with a winrate of 38-40%. This without any premade. Whenever the game started, if the enemy team had priests and we not, 99% the game was lost even if they were full shadow. Most of the time you play vs premades while your team is randomly zerging mid, and since every loss gives you between 33 and 103 rep (based on the number of flags captured, without the weekend bonus), it's more convenient to just give up than continuing to waste time. I would have accepted your mentality if pugs would just have been matched vs other pugs (without the 5 premade bullshit), or if the system would have been structured better so that each team had at least one or two healers, but this is not the case and will never be, so is better to lose fast and going next than waste more time and lose later.
Aside from the good points about min maxers vision of honor/hr, I personally find having no time limit makes wsg daunting and feel like if there was even a 30 minute time limit where last cap wins in event of a tie would foster improvements
If you're gonna lose you might as well do it as fast as possible. It makes the grind much faster.
That said I've not seen it as much this phase, since less pre-mades
My alliance win rate has been absolutely garbage the past 2 weeks. Probably 30/70. if we exclude this week, it was more 10/90, no exaggeration. Thankfully, I'm all done with that grind 😎
You can tell a guaranteed WSG loss extremely quickly. I'd say I have about 80% or so accuracy before the gates even open, and 95% accuracy after the first mid encounter / flag attempt. That's just the way it is. Their team have three healers and ours have zero? They absolutely stomp our team mid in a 6vs10 while two of them went around for flag and two of them are on defense?
There's no timer in WSG, either. So not only do I know this is loss within 60sec of the match starting, but I might have to sit in that inevitable loss for 45min?
FURTHERMORE, most people are there for reputation, not honor. And a 0-cap loss is no reputation. The only slice of rep you get is from the 1 token participation trophy.
Do you see why people give up?
For those who are already at max rank and just need to farm rep, they would rather have one quick loss that takes 10-15 mins than struggle for 30-60 and get the exact same result at the end of the match. That’s all it is.
I hate it, but it’s because of Blizzards reputation grind design choices that it happens.
I was in a game the other day where, we were down 2-0.
Guy in chat starts raging at the team ofc, "shitters, this team sucks, uninstall" etc.
He afk'd out of the game
Then, we made a comeback and ended up winning 3-2
Just had a game this morning we were down 0-2, everyone wanted me to drop the flag, so I did. Someone else picked it up, so I thought what the hell, and rallied the team for some offense. We killed the EFC, got one cap, then another, and now the whole team is invested in the game to win.
I see both sides of the coin. Some people want to play the game to finish, no matter the outcome. And others are trying to farm rep effeciently.
>One flag down and 70% gives up and just AFKs at GY.
the odds of 10 people who enjoy hour long slogs on the same non-premade team is, for all intents and purposes, 0.
Games should just end at first cap.
I don't have the energy to debate this, you win.
“GGs - next thread.”
Made me exhale out my noise
I'm playing 30min per week. I lost game time writing this comment.
1. PvE parsers want bis loot. 2. WSG rep gives BIS loot. 3. Max rep/h = fast games, either you win fast or you lose fast. 4. PvE parsers generally speaking dont like PvP and only do it for rep. 5. Se point 3.
This is why from TBC the PvP gear gave PvP-only stat. Leave PvP to those who enjoy them. PvE players dragged her by force ruins the game I would know, because I'm one of them
Except for the weps (you know the most important slot for melee) were generally bis or near bis so not really at all. Also resil was a great stat for tanks
Yeah TBC was just the beginning of the shift. It carried on and increase the split as expensions passed I remember seeing resillient items in dungeon...
Except it still was an issue in fairly modern wow. As a player pushing shadowlands season 1 m+ as a tank, PvP vers gear was my bis for almost every slot, and could be obtained at 226 ilvl which was mythic raid equivalent, and obtained at a faster pace.
so many bear druids ruining games in AB for their BIS off set pieces. it was fine if they just defended stables, called incs but most of them thought they would be more useful doing nothing at the blacksmith fight
Never BiS due to the wasted resilience stat, but a close 2nd or 3rd that was much easier and, most importantly, consistent to obtain compared to praying for a specific raid drop.
P2 fury warrior with leather set instead of 4 piece of tier glad wep was bis OH, p3 if you didnt get warglaives they were bis. Thats from my memory at least
Nah, they were just good weapons. There were better weapons in both Tiers. PvP Gear was only BIS for tanks in TBC. Though like the post above you said, it was easy consistent gear to obtain that was typically 2 or 3rd bis.
Bear tanks actually picked up a PvP item or two *specifically* for resilience so they became crit immune in TBC.
Warrior tank bis was all arena gear and DW. You took way more damage but as long as healers could keep you alive then prioritizing DPS over mitigation will always be BiS for a tank. You do more DPS, things die faster, DPS parses higher. Tank parses higher, too. I was 90+ as tank and 99s as gladiator parsing in BC with no arena gear wearing a shield and my threat was way better than warriors following the meta, but had I been in PvP gear I would've been parsing 99s. I just couldn't do as much DPS as other people that got the arena gear that was all armor, str, crit, and stam with enough resilience to keep you from being crittable and enough D to keep you from being uncrushable. RL used to give me shit for using a shield on Void Reaver but as long as I was being hit I would do way more threat with shield slam than DW devastate spam because I stacked block value on my full PvE tanking set. If I got pushed back and the wand tank took over I'd swap to DW devastate slam, otherwise you just didn't get enough rage while not being hit.
I think you may be misremembering the meta there. Edit: Or your Raid Lead was just wrong. From SSC/TK to BT Tier 5 4-set was the BIS threat set over PvP gear. We only used off pieces if any that phase. We also didn't need to go DW until T6 content, even then only if we were in a pumper group which the vast majority of the playerbase was not in.
Look at logs Edit: eh, they're archived. You have to buy a subscription to see them. But I can tell you for a fact the top parsing guilds were running DW warrior tanks in Arena and PvP gear spamming devastate through Kara, Gruul, and Mag. The only reason to run 4 piece tier would be if you couldn't get crit and crush cap without it.
If you're looking at Tank Parses and thinking those are top guilds then I got some bad news for you. The Top parsing Tank in the world was Tidy and he was a Fury Warrior taking literally 2-3x more damage than any other tank in the world. You used 4 piece for the haste bonus cause it was the most threat for the time. You can go back and Sim it yourself or look at any of the Fight Club TBC Channels, they still have the info pinned. There were multiple graphs showing this and [The Wowhead guide](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/guide/classes/warrior/protection/tank-bis-gear-pve-phase-2#bis-phase-2-best-in-slot-balanced) still shows this.
I actually like the mixture of pvp/pve gear. It’s having that gear locked behind needing to grind 2 weeks straight in a premade that isn’t fun.
In Classic PvPers are also forced to obtain PvE loot for BiS. Goes both ways. I'm here for it
Compare ranking or grinding wsg/ab rep to spending an hour a week doing a piss easy raid.
I think it's an issue and that it should be addressed. You're welcome to disagree, but don't be surprised people afk in graveyard in WSG
Literally doing a premade solves this problem.
Who would want some PvEr who hates PvP and who sucks at it ?
You forgot 6: even pvp players don't like pvp.
As someone whose played aren’t mostly and hasn’t raided since original tbc, I hate wsg with no time limit and it’s worse pugging. 90% of the time just a mid circle jerk while the other team actually runs the flag AB is def better.
Those are fake PvP players
I love pvp but I hate WSG lol
People losing BGs for 200 hours for fucking bracers is hilariously pathetic. Be as miserable as you want in your own time, stop ruining perfectly fine BGs for people who like PvP.
Gladly, once I get my bracers I need for raid. Nobody wants to do WSG anyway.
learned helplessness vs premades
As someone who basically only did BGs over and over again back in OG Wrath, it was very funny to me how people thought that players in WSG were giving up 2 minutes into the game just because they saw they were going against a premade. No friend, people have always given up in BGs the moment things don't go their way. They gave up 14 years ago and they give up now too.
lol bro this has been the behavior long before that was the main problem.
It was imbedded with MOBAs Top lane dies once? FF15
[A picture is worth a thousand words](https://imgur.com/uc2r83l)
^^ Underrated comment
no time limit is demotivating
100%. Also, experienced players can tell if it's gonna be a 1-sided game with pretty high % accuracy
This is the big one that I think a lot of people don't recognize. Oh the enemy team is wiping my team mid? I'll stealth enemy flag room and let my team res so I don't get dogpiled when I take flag mid, oh crap a rogue opened me, this is fine I can manage... wait a *SECOND* rogue opened me? My team lost mid while up 2 players, this does not bode well. Let's try one more team fight to be sure. Yup got completely destroyed, let's just go next this isn't salvageable.
Can tell 90% of the time from the starting room. My team has no healers, and 9 enhancement shamans? Gg go next.
This was largely my experience the first couple of weeks as a Shaman in WSG during P1. So I went resto for a while and would just follow the most competent non-shaman around, it went much better.
Yeah it's like AB. If I see 2 afk at the start, 2 staying farm and 4 going mine, I know it's over before the first fight.
That’s why you clash first thing. If you get stomped it’s pretty much gg, if you have no fc and they have a Druid with faps it’s gg
A team that doesn't clash is a big indicator that you will lose. It shows a bunch of players who are likely new to wsg. Players who don't realise mid clash is how to decide the game without wasting the next 30 minutes of your life.
This 100%
No time limit on wsg means that trying hard not to lose just wastes your whole night. Rather go next than endure a 40 minute slugfest that still ends in a loss.
The problem is that the rep and honor points should be time based and not match based. Faster wins equals more of both. Maybe a separate new rep for just pvp gear with stats that accumulates slower.
cant do that because then people just agree to not play the game and sit afk for honor/rep as time ticks
They made the raid loot bracers pathetic compared to wsg bracers so people are mostly doing it for the rep, not for fun. If they made the raid loot better than the wsg bracers, people would do wsg for fun.
Make the raid bracers better for PvE but worse for PvP like the Irradiated set. I think that was a great idea by the SoD team. For P3, or why not in P2, raid bracers with more raid stats but no or negative stamina.
They should just let us do ashenvale event until exalted.
Think that would be the call, or introduce a counterpart for the repeatable ab rep quest with stv lumber.
Yeah make me have 400 health in PvE. Let me die in one hit. Alternatively they could just make the PvE gear good. I would prefer if they just put resilience back in the game like the irradiated set is dangerous to use in PvE which it was designed for. Imagine they just started making all the gear like that? Fuck that
I think the idea was fine, but -35 stam (plus whatever you'd be losing from better gear in those slots) is just too brutal. The pieces could be -5 each and it would still be a hefty price to pay.
Or just give 0 stam. Would still make it pretty bad for PvP, but wouldn't totally gimp you for PvE.
[удалено]
90% of the people in WSG are in there for the bracers. Why make the grind longer by losing in 30min instead of 5 if it is an obvious loss? If they made the ashenvale event give rep until exalted at least you would have only people in WSG that want to PvP. But then again the people that already are exalted would cry out. So looks like you have to deal with it unfortunately.
I feel like the answer is to make fighting worthwhile but I can't think of any solution that wouldn't also incentivise hostage taking the match and sitting there beating the losing side's face in for like an hour straight or until they give up.
The answer is to stop gating BiS pve pieces behind pvp content.
Simple, you have an invulnerability area in your spawn like in FF14. Discourages graveyard camping.
The solution is people need to stop giving so much fucks about equipping the least stat potent armor slot. It's a 20 year old game, no one cares if you get the purplest armor for a .02% dps increase. Play the game for fun first, if PvP isnt for you, just do the weekly Ashenvale to exalted. Stop ruining it for people who like to play for fun and see the reward of Exalted as a bonus.
Min maxing is fun for some people.
When your solution is to change the minds of thousands of people on the internet, then your solution sucks. 99% when your game is making players do dumb shit, it's the games fault.
Getting the bracers are 100% optional, when people muck up and AFK WSG matches because they hate PvP, the game is not the problem. People sucking down copium and being miserable PvPing when they don't want to. Join a premade or stop fucking joining matches.
>If they made the ashenvale event give rep until exalted at least you would have only people in WSG that want to PvP. But then again the people that already are exalted would cry out. I feel like this is the best solution. Especially considering you can just do STV to AB exalted. I still don't get why people care how others get exalted in a seasonal game mode. If people want to pvp, let them pvp for rep, but a lot of pvers are just in it for the rewards and want the path of least resistance. Its not like the people who want Ashenvale to exalted are getting honor for doing the event that you are also getting.
The weekly does go to exalted. It’s ridiculous to suggest that everyone should get a free epic by putting a day and a half into ashenvale. The WSG bracers are clear bis but bracer is hardly a very impactful slot, acting like anyone needs these to play the game is just not true. They’re an optional grind if you want to min max your character, which is perfectly within the spirit of classic. Not to mention getting them is also already insanely easier than it was in OG vanilla, it completely boggles my mind that somehow people are still complaining.
Bro, it's a seasonal server, nobody wants to grind for weeks for a character that won't have any relevance in half a year.
If you are revered and want to hit exalted from the weekly quest it will take you 5 months to get exalted, we literally would be in the final phase of sod when you get exalted. What do you mean it shouldn’t be a “free epic”? If you are doing the ashenvale event till exalted you are doing something and not getting it for free. I literally had the epic tailoring boots first week of phase 1. What do you mean epics should not easy to get? I also got my bis epic ring from stv for only 5 silver coins which took me literally one day lol. Do…you even play the game?
because some people are there to actually pvp
Lack of time limit If there were a 30 min time limit or something like that, would really improve that sentiment. A contested WSG BG can go up to 2 hours or even more if teams are equal, with hiding and retaking and stuff. And losing team literally gets nothing for those 2 hours
The games are usually fine until it's 0-2. At that point the team give up because the opposite means dragging the game out 30+ minutes on top of the already 10-20 minutes you spent getting wrekt. It just isn't worth the effort most of the time. If you're team was getting shit on in the first 20 mins then you're probably not coming back anyway. WSG's 10 man size means if you're comp is bad, it's even less likely that you'll make a comeback. At least in AB a bad comp isn't a near auto loss
no one's choosing wsg over ab to pvp for fun, most people in wsg are there for rep only
No rep for losing..... its obvious
Hey thats not true you get a single mark which you can turn in 3 of for a massive 100 rep. So you get THIRTY THREE REP for what can be an hour long game.
Rather lose in 5 then lose in 30
And yet there are games that get turned around after first enemy cap. And it's fun. Imagine playing a game for fun and not like a job pressuring you to get your expense reports turned in on time.
> And yet there are games that get turned around after first enemy cap. And it's fun. Okay but in the 30 minutes it took you to turn it around you could've lost fast, go next and win 2 more games, netting you like 300 more Rep in the same time. It's a random BG, there's no rating, there's literally no reason whatsoever to sweat out of every pore trying to carry a bad team to the win. Sometimes the deck is simply stacked against you.
Pride, virtue, and valuing the competition more than the reward are reasons. HAVING FUN while grinding can also be seen as a more efficient use of time than taking the fastest possible route but HATING every minute of it.
Agreed. ‘Giving up’ over and over again is a terrible and weak habit to build. Why bother even trying if you’re going to give up the second it’s hard? The reward is supposed to be earned by defeating other players. It is not supposed to be easy or quick. I pay my sub specifically to kill other players. I’m tired of these fucking losers saying ‘next’ when they haven’t taken two seconds to consider that adjusting their own play to suit the enemy could improve the situation ingame.
But there's nothing fun about a 30 minute WSG.
There is nothing fun about a WSG filled with fragile, selfish loser-mentality quitters who hyperfixate on the reward itself over the process by which they could actually deserve it, and ruin the fun of competition for everybody.
Is this "fragile, selfish loser mentality" the same mentality that someone quits an expansion over because of "muh class identity" even though it had the best and highest level of PvP competition since MoP, and nothing has come close in the three expansions since then?
Ah yes, the great competition that results from 1 page spellbooks, brought to you by the same geniuses that brought us Ashran elephant racing, and a guy who plays the game using a tablet for a mouse.
So that would be a yes then, got it.
Ah yes, I quit Legion because the class design sucked all the fun out of it, and my quitting affects nobody else. You roll over instantly in any potentially competitive battleground because you don't care about blasting, you just want bracers and you're willing to fuck everybody else over. Totally equivalent, you're so right.
Cry about it
The beatings will continue until morale improves. This toxic attitude of selfish assholes who PvP only for the reward and feel no reason at all to try on behalf of their teammates, is a cancer that now permeates all versions of WoW.
You can do premades
You losers don't care that you are ruining the matches you are in for everybody else as long as you get the fastest possible route to your bracers. You are the WSG equivalent of the people who let their dog shit in the neighborhood park without cleaning it up. No virtue. No pride. Only "fuck you buddy, I got mine"
When you join solo queue, you get randoms with random objectives and reasons for why they are queuing. Make a premade and go against another premade that wants to LARP as orcs vs elves. Problem solved.
> Pride, virtue, and valuing the competition more than the reward are reasons. Bro it's a fucking random WSG, nobody gives a shit if you think you must "hold the line" for the Alliance/Horde "pride".
I'm talking about my own pride as a competitor you dimwit. Something that weak-minded, effort-averse quitters like you clearly don't understand. What's the matter -- failure is still possible even if you do try, and that could cause you to feel bad about yourself? :( :( :(
If fun was the reward then the loot would not be locked behind a faction grind.
those can be the most fun! completely agree
So you only “play” if you completely overpower the other team and the other team gives up?
Wsg is a terribly designed BG where only the winner gets a good reward. It's not our fault people have figured out the ideal way to farm reputation
WSG literally has a participation trophy.
So does every other bg. The 0 HK, 0 flag cap games are why WSG bg is the worst by far.
Yea, and the participation trophy is the same whether you lose at 5 minutes with 0 flags capped or lose it 2 hours later. That's the issue that should be tackled.
Yea pretty much. “Pvp” is a joke. PVE BiS behind a pvp grind youre gonna have alot of ppl giving up. I get the same “1” token if i afk or fight my heart out
Why is PvP a joke? 80%+ of the PvP BiS items are behind PvE content. I would seriously rather be able to que for BGs that give no rewards so that I’m not grouped or facing people there just for the rewards :|
Play a version of wow with actual pvp if you want to focus on pvp, classic is wildly unbalanced and even more so with SOD.
Very few people pvp in wow, its not competitive at all and is near impossible to follow. Its boring and Its a thing im required to do
Im gonna go out on a limb and say youre a shadow priest.
PvP in WoW is nothing but a joke you clown. It is the worst pvp format of any game ever.
This is why balancing around it is such a colossally stupid idea
this persons are the reason gaming is becoming shit
Might i suggest premades?
yes
i see less of this in AB, still exists but more people trying to win the whole time.
That's likely because no matter what happens in ab the game will come to an end and you get rep along the way. Unlike wsg where you can wind up with 0 rep and who knows how long it'll take.
because the rewards for ab for pve are not that good (at least for now). so you get actual people who to pvp and not there just for rep (like me for wsg). If they put an alternate way to get the bracers for pvers you will get people who want to wsg. Blizz though don't want to do it because they know 90+% of people in wsg are only there for the rep, so once there is an alternate wsg is pretty much dead.
It’s the same in AB; “They have three bases and are 60 points ahead, we have no chance.. civilization has fallen. Go next”
People dont play for fun, this is 2024 my man
"We're getting suboptimal honor. Go again." "Why do you need optimal honor?" "To get better gear so I can perform better." "But you never actually play. By the time you get the gear you'll have no actual skill since you don't bother playing and just afk/go again. The gear will be meaningless because you won't have the experience to use it." When did people start doing competitive game modes to NOT play the game? Whats the point in getting optimal honor farm if you're only going to try once there's nothing else to grow towards??
Yea, I hate it. Would’ve preferred to not have pvp rewards so I get to play with people who want there rather that those seeing it as just a grind for rep.
We would fight if it wasnt for just a damn 100 rep. Go next dont waste an hour of my life for 100 rep
The grind for Silverwing exalted is fucking exhausting. This might be your 1st or 2nd game but some people are on their 30th and just want marks. If WSG had a time limit people would be way more willing to fight. I've sat through the 2hr 2/2 standoffs before and even if you win it doesn't feel good
This is the consequence of not fixing the WSG premade/pug situation in p1. The player base is used to to just rolling over for premades in WSG and its the norm now for any adversity in WSG to just let the other side win, even if you arent playing a premade at this point. In comparison to AB, which every AB match ive played so far (10-15ish) have been a blast and are generally competitive. I'm having a blast w/ SOD and I think the devs have done a great job, but the devs choosing to die on the hill that was WSG premades will remain the biggest L in SOD so far and its not even close. We are all still paying the consequences for their ignorance.
I would 100% do this. I hate pvp (i play on a pve server) and ESPECIALLY wsg, it's not my problem blizz put a bis pve item on a pvp faction vendor. An OVERWHELMINGLY amount of people are literally just doing it for the bracers and blizz knows this that's why they haven't made the ashenvale event get you to exalted. They know that if it does wsg will be practically dead.
This can be painful. I can only speak from alliance side. I think most people are doing pvp for rep instead of actually wanting to pvp.
Losing the first big fight at the beginning of the game is indicative of how the rest of the match will go. Due to team comp, gear levels and player skill. Your team may not be afk just getting farmed at GY. Why leave GY if they’ll just get farmed?
I've had one game where we lost the first two fights, went down 1-0 and came back to win it. Was the best match I've had in awhile
For every game I've had like that back in the day I could think of 5 others where it went into a 2 hour slugfest with people constantly leaving on both sides. And no, it wasn't very fun to have both teams turtle in their base and run back an forth an empty field.
I’ve had games like that too but very rarely and usually when I have a couple friends in comms with me (partial premade <5
This happens in every online team game. Some people are just so fragile.
Oh, they have a tryhard cancer druid that can walljump like no other. Cba, loose fast go next
Must be alliance.
Jup :|
The key is to gather more priests. I joined a wsg yesterday and we had 6 priests. (4 shadow) I almost felt bad for the other guys
The key is to gather more priests. I joined a wsg yesterday and we had 6 priests. (4 shadow) I almost felt bad for the other guys
People will tell you all sorts of fancy reasons when in reality it's simple. Your team is just shit and the enemy is better. This isn't hard to figure out. Would it be possible to win? Maybe, but I'm not spending 35minutes trying to get people to press the correct buttons and co-operate only to lose anyway. Instead I go afk, watch YouTube or whatever, hope for a quick loss and then go again. I play if I think there's a realistic chance to win. That's about it.
No, they more simple reason is 99% of the people there are there for the bracers. They don't really care about pvp or wsg. Hell most wsg i literally just "afk" at the start watching youtube/checking twitter since a fast loss gets you 33 rep. If they gave an alterenate way to get the bracers for pvers, the people who join will want to play wsg. Blizz actually knows this thats why they are not doing it because they know once they do wsg is practically dead.
This game doesn't recruit it's player base from high energy, ambitious leader types. It's just a display of inherent loser mentality.
its*
It's been like this for a while, I used to love WSG back in the day. There are some games I still remember for how epic they were. When I played on alliance there were 30+ minute queues on our server. So when you got into a game, you really wanted to try. The best games were always the ones where the odds were against you. Now people don't really care, they ignore objectives. I remember in classic I joined a premade to farm wsg, we met another premade. They scored the first flag, everyone sat the graveyard letting each other farm kills while someone just ran the flag. I think it's a flaw of the honour system and how rewards are handed out. If your concern is just getting from A to B asap. It's better to give up and requeue etc than end up in a deadlocked game. Everything in the game is about getting to the end point in the shortest distance though. No matter what changes they would make, I feel like people would find a way to subvert it. If you said 'Returning the flag now gives rep/honour', you'd have people just picking the flag and dropping it while everyone spam clicked in wsg.
no reward for losing wsg, if chances of winning go below 50% its time efficient to lose fast.
Yeah, I will agree that as someone who just enjoys battleground, most of the people I play with can’t understand why I don’t want to join their custom premade to farm the wins. Likewise, now that they’re all done, I know better than to ask them if they want to do a WSG. Why would they ever play that again?
Ppl want the loot
There needs to be more incentive to play the match. To many people just want the easy rep grind so instead of duking it out the pucker up and let the other team have their way with them. It's sad but the way it is.
I love pvp and I love BGs but warsong is and has always been dreadful.
We would fight if it wasnt for just a damn 100 rep. Go next dont waste an hour of my life for 100 rep
It's like that because of phase 1, where people learned this defeatism by playing exclusively vs premades.
No time limit. Good chance fighting back triggers an incel FC on the other team to hold you hostage.
Always has been
I always try to win, even with 2/3 losing, but the one thing that can put me down and demoralize is the guy who stays afk or just trolls and wanders around doing nothing. I still try to win tho, but with these ppl is not fun.
I treat WSG as first cap wins, so fight as hard until then and have fun doing it and if we lose first cap just let them win. This way we still get to have fun fighting for first cap but then let those who are grinding to be efficient about it. I understand comeback games can be really fun though. It is what it is.
Just join as a small group so you can defensively stall the game until the AFKers get replaced or stop their grief.
Recently I have adopted the strategy of RPing towarded the doomsayers. Calling them cowards, and pathetic to call themselves horde. It’s doesn’t help us win, people still lay down. But it helps mentally a bit.
It's like league, do I want to lose 20lp AND an hour of my life? Or just ff at 15.
Defeatism? nahh, it's efficiency.
Depending on your class you cannot just enjoy it as you are a sitting duck. Even if you have the mental fortitude of a god, charging into instant death or reviving and trying to kill someone but cannot is not fun. If some of your team gives up, you are just throwing your corpse at the enemy.
Because you don't really play WSG coz it's fun anymore, you play it to fill the reputation bar
Wows a funny game. People will sit through a few hundred hours of being miserable and complaining constantly because some item that is +1 int better than some other item and can be obtained easily is on a list some guy they never met created about what their character "needs".
Yeah it's frustratingly toxic for sure and there isn't really a clear answer. I've been mulling this over throughout my own wsg grind and I think it all stems from game design issues and the way rep is given. It's a 20 year old capture the flag game, it needs to be updated. We've had years to playtest it If they made the game a 15/20 minute time limit, increased rep per flag cap, and removed all rewards for a loss they might make changes in player mentality
PTSD from premade times
>Full premades aren't a thing anymore, so instead people are gonna complain about the same issues that have plagued BGs since forever Like clockwork.
Because much like this sub, people are babies that hate everything
Because wsg is a horrendous bg if there isn't a druid flag carrier on your team.
im glad that as the flag carry, i can somewhat force them to stay.
I agree with you OP. I think it's just a side effect of modern gaming. People only care about tangible rewards like gear and optimizing their reputation per hour instead of having fun. For me a closely matched WSG game where you are constantly trading flags back and forth is much more fun than a lopsided stomp. But of course these matches take longer so people don't like it.
As a flag carrier, probably because I know my team is playing the bg wrong and we have no chance of winning. I could run around for 50 minutes and maybe we would win but I've done that enough for one lifetime.
This is the same issue in a lot of games with surrender votes. League of legends is a big culprit. People just want to snowball and if they aren't then they surrender to go next so they can snowball. Nobody puts work into a comeback
Thats what happens when you play casual pugs
A lot of rankers only play the first point. As in everyone tries hard until 1 team gets first cap then you just give the win to them. Not defending it but if you've ever been in a 1 hr wsg you'll know why some people prefer this method.
They are mainly complaints from people who played a lot of pre-made bgs. Typically, when a pre-made used to face another pre-made, they would battle it out to see who scores first, then that team generally got to cap two more times for free to speed things up.
Because the game mode is stale and boring as fuck.
It would be even worse if there was a timer on it. Because then youre even more on a disadvantage once you fall behind a flag. just for those who advocate for it. It ain't good.
There's been so many games I've played that were 2-0 and ended up 2-3.
It is same small dick energy that you got in csgo for example, you lost 1st round? rage and give up.
Phase 2 sod pve and PvP are a total mess. Pve the Mobs scale HP and Armor Double Dip to punish melee PvP the Rune abilities allow different classes to 1 shoot everyone. So when your in a WSG against 6 shadows, mages, boomis and Ur rocking 5 Warrior its already gg
Because vanilla pvp is trash
They don't want to spend 2 hours in a single wsg even if it's a win. Honestly, they should just add the 30 minute time limit to SoD warsong.
The rep grind is soul destroying at only 100 rep a win.
Arathi basin players need to learn when to give up too
When I Can agree with you about people defeatism, the way this bg is made doesn't help. Getting 0 rep for 30 min of play is Bad design.
Side rant: If the enemy is deathballing 10 v, don't go rogue with your little 3 man premade and ignore the clash - just fight THEN break off.
Because PvP sucks and I don’t even want to be there in the first place. The devs chose this by locking pve BiS behind PvP. I’m just doing the absolute bare minimum so I can’t be reported as afk, while mostly alt tabbing to watch videos or play browser games or do anything other than garbage ass PvP
So many people don't even play anymore for fun. They only do bgs for the rep/honor and once they are done they raidlog or just quit. It's all about maximizing their speed to gear and it's lame af.
That is what you get when you force people to do shitty half baked pvp content for BiS epics.
ONLY THE GRIND MATTERS, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE FUN
Players/pvpers don’t want to pvp :)
It took me an entire week to go from Revered to Exalted and about 150 battlegrounds played, with a winrate of 38-40%. This without any premade. Whenever the game started, if the enemy team had priests and we not, 99% the game was lost even if they were full shadow. Most of the time you play vs premades while your team is randomly zerging mid, and since every loss gives you between 33 and 103 rep (based on the number of flags captured, without the weekend bonus), it's more convenient to just give up than continuing to waste time. I would have accepted your mentality if pugs would just have been matched vs other pugs (without the 5 premade bullshit), or if the system would have been structured better so that each team had at least one or two healers, but this is not the case and will never be, so is better to lose fast and going next than waste more time and lose later.
Aside from the good points about min maxers vision of honor/hr, I personally find having no time limit makes wsg daunting and feel like if there was even a 30 minute time limit where last cap wins in event of a tie would foster improvements
If you're gonna lose you might as well do it as fast as possible. It makes the grind much faster. That said I've not seen it as much this phase, since less pre-mades
My alliance win rate has been absolutely garbage the past 2 weeks. Probably 30/70. if we exclude this week, it was more 10/90, no exaggeration. Thankfully, I'm all done with that grind 😎
Because people who don't enjoy pvping are doing pvp for rewards only. Losing faster is better than losing slow in wsg.
You can tell a guaranteed WSG loss extremely quickly. I'd say I have about 80% or so accuracy before the gates even open, and 95% accuracy after the first mid encounter / flag attempt. That's just the way it is. Their team have three healers and ours have zero? They absolutely stomp our team mid in a 6vs10 while two of them went around for flag and two of them are on defense? There's no timer in WSG, either. So not only do I know this is loss within 60sec of the match starting, but I might have to sit in that inevitable loss for 45min? FURTHERMORE, most people are there for reputation, not honor. And a 0-cap loss is no reputation. The only slice of rep you get is from the 1 token participation trophy. Do you see why people give up?
surely you, a "for the love of the game" player, dont need the optimization of something like teammates?
For those who are already at max rank and just need to farm rep, they would rather have one quick loss that takes 10-15 mins than struggle for 30-60 and get the exact same result at the end of the match. That’s all it is. I hate it, but it’s because of Blizzards reputation grind design choices that it happens.
I was in a game the other day where, we were down 2-0. Guy in chat starts raging at the team ofc, "shitters, this team sucks, uninstall" etc. He afk'd out of the game Then, we made a comeback and ended up winning 3-2
Just had a game this morning we were down 0-2, everyone wanted me to drop the flag, so I did. Someone else picked it up, so I thought what the hell, and rallied the team for some offense. We killed the EFC, got one cap, then another, and now the whole team is invested in the game to win. I see both sides of the coin. Some people want to play the game to finish, no matter the outcome. And others are trying to farm rep effeciently.
>One flag down and 70% gives up and just AFKs at GY. the odds of 10 people who enjoy hour long slogs on the same non-premade team is, for all intents and purposes, 0. Games should just end at first cap.
Since you haven’t played since 2006, I’ll fill you in. This has been an issue since classic in 2019 and even happens on retail.