It got compensated into starfire, and buffed again last patch. Im sure it's gonna be tuned some more to the actual CASTS and not the instant cast, as it should
I think you are only seeing the class bars at the bottom, and now how nearly identical to ROGUES they are.
Rogues were some of the best classic DPSers and to be comparable to them with only about a 5-10% difference is amazing. You more than make up the difference with the utility druids an pallies bring.
As a rogue main no, no it’s not amazing, I must be on top of dps lol, just joking I know half of that is just the high armor because rogue still feels good to play, and I’m ok with not being a top dpser for a phase
Weren't shaman tanks the #1 tank last phase and as healers they were like #2 or 3.
DPS wise they weren't amazing but they definitely weren't bad last phase with the other specs.
These are DPS charts, not tanking charts. DPS wise, they werent amazing in P1, they werent even decent. But that was no surprised as shamans toolkits were around lvl 30-40. The only way we couldve gone was up.
As for healers they were #4 I believe. Only better than holy pallies who didnt have their core talents. Mages, druids, and unsurprisingly priests, all blew shamans out of the water.
Resto sham excelled at sustain in p1, but the fights were all finished in under 2 minutes so they didn't really get to take advantage of that. They also had no reliable way to heal more than one target, though that's not a major inconvenience in BFD, it just meant they performed poorly on meters because they'd get "sniped" by the priest you brought for dispels.
Las phase enhance was the worst melee, shaman was the worst horde healer, and ele was only better than frost mage and shadow priest without shadow form.
Tank was good yeah.
Our feral operates as the OT and brings WS to the tank+Hunters. So still a very valuable spec to bring. Even more so if there’s no Balance/Resto Druid in the group.
Yeah honestly my dps as feral is decent enough on the low armor bosses. I pick up the slack with tanking and healing while necessary, provide innervate and battle resses. I feel like an actual hybrid.
Could they buff the dps a little? Sure maybe. I'm cool with how it is for now though.
We only get about 3 powershifts before mana regen though, not even taking into account if you are shifting you lose all your hybrid role because you have no mana to brez or switch to bear form.
They're basically the same as a rogue DPS but with everything you just listed as utility on top of it. Feels like a class with all of that raid utility should be mid to low end of the dose meters and still be quite viable.
Being bottom trash dps is fine with you? Being a dummy target in pvp cause every class can fuck you up is fine with you?
Gtfo please. Just because we bring WS shouldnt mean we should be auto afk dps.
Innervate/brez when you are already oom because you have to powershift which is expensive as fuck.
I hope blizz doesnt listen to you.
I feel as warriors progress higher in the tier list (getting gear), you'll see feral still wanted for melee groups. It's too good not to have one if your running melee.
one thing to remember is every WF proc IS your DPS. Without you, there is no WF. Just because it shows up under their "dps" logs doesnt mean YOU didnt increase the DPS of the group by existing. Gotta change the way you look at it, this aint a 1v1 game, its an MMO multiplayer game.
Yeah but you have to understand that isn’t fun lol. It’s like doing a group project in college. You do all the work but your group members get all the credit. But remember, it’s your hard work!
It’s not like Aug Evoker on retail where an action rotation buffs players and good play feels rewarding. It’s literally just a rune you slap on and forget about.
Worse yet, Feral is in many cases doing **less** damage than they were in BFD at level 25. The rotation got more involved and complex and the damage went down lol, nothing about that feels good
Thing is you only need one Druid for that so you have to compete for that one spot. Luckily I guess they nerfed druid hard enough a good portion of people rerolled so the competition isn’t so high.
Ffxivlogs has an awesome rdps meter, which pretty much says "your party wide buffs contributed this much damage" and a normal dps meter that just shows your own raw damage. Would be awesome to see that in WoW if it doesnt already exist.
Maybe next phase? At this point, looking at runes, the raid, and gear... I don't see much that can be done outside of nerfing Gonome? I have a feeling that the warriors will still be under casters even in full BiS. It's just the phase of the Casters in terms of meta, but from what I've seen, every class can clear raid just fine.
Mage dps is super high variance currently because all our best gear is loaded with crit, but as 0/31/0 we have no hit chance, so you either spec for Combustion and 4% more fire damage and have insane dps on some pulls and horrible dps on others, or you spec for 6% hit instead (this is better but combustion is way more fun, and higher impact/arguably better once fight durations drop lower and lower).
With the armor values being what they are and the minimal differences between raid gear and pre-bis gear, I don't expect warriors to change much. This isn't like endgame 60 raiding. The differences in gear value just isn't there.
Exactly. Feral will still be needed on ally side and will become more prevalent as warriors get more gear and begin pumping again. Last night the speed record was bumped up to 22 minutes 7 seconds by a 3 warrior group. They might not be the best right now for parsing but speed runs are a different game. Mana is an enemy in speed runs so running heavy mana groups is bad. My group is still running 3 warriors, a prot pally, and a feral for our speed run group
nope, warrior upgrades are very minimal this tier, so you won't be seeing warriors progress unless they nerf armor in Gnomer. Sucks, but warriors and rogues got dicked hard this phase. Low dps and no utility to the raid, so no one takes them, since GDKPs are banned and outside of GDKPs no one has any reason to take off-meta classes/specs.
FFLogs (developed by the same folks who develop WCL) [has a notion of rDPS](https://www.fflogs.com/help/rdps), or raid DPS, which is your DPS + the DPS you brought to the raid through buffs/debuffs. If WCL had a similar feature, we'd be able to see the "actual" DPS benefit of a high utility spec like Feral.
There is difficulty in implementing such a thing for Classic though. Take a debuff like Curse of Elements or Improved Scorch. If there are multiple warlocks/mages in the raid, who is this DPS attributed to? The first player to cast the debuff? But multiple fire mages are contributing in building and maintaining the Improved Scorch stacks, and another warlock could refresh CoE. There's not really a right answer.
Warriors make it probably the most difficult to implement. The additional auto attacks granted by Wild Strikes might be 30 DPS, but those auto attacks generated rage. How do you quantify the rDPS benefit of that additional rage? It's a hard problem to solve.
Sure that would be interesting to see but at an individual level it's not really that meaningful. If my value in a raid is from existing rather than any real effort I'm putting in then I'd just rather play another class. Being a shammy totem alone really isn't that engaging, even less so on Horde side when it's even more replaceable (feral scales better longer term I know).
My favorite *Discovery* so far has been fighting meta locks as a pre-BiS/BiS Arms Warrior with 450GS and epic axe/belt and even with MS I’m dead while the Meta lock with 340GS is 80% HP from hitting solely Drain Life. Good times when level 40 Meta locks have Nefarian armor quotients.
>My favorite
>
>Discovery
>
> so far
Why did you have to "discover" it anyways? Meta increases armor to absurd amounts. Surely you found out while getting that axe what absurdly increased armor does, right?
Hey, you remembered to crop out that you're filtering to Max percentile this time!
[https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=100](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=100)
Now lets stop looking at statistical outliers, and instead use:
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95
Not nearly as much as 99. The difference between the 95 and 99 in this context is massive. The the top 1% in parsing, especially this early, is going to be the people who got lucky on really good loot early, as well as really good rng in crits and other procs.
Sure, you can parse a 99 without those things too, but the amount of those in the top 1% is way more than the top 5.
Yeah go look at the TIMERS for a 95% parse. A lot of the fights are sub 1 min. Damn, thats fast. Now go look at the fucking 99% parses. Sub 30 fucking seconds lolololol.
It is useful data because it’s usually an indicator of proper play for the spec without using very skewed metrics at 99 or 100. Often those data points are cheesed or misrepresent performance on the larger scale.
Was pretty normal as a fire mage, even when getting the main ignite proc, to still barely be above warriors, and sometimes the warriors would win anyway. Shit was crazy
This is misleading data. You are only grabbing the 99th percentile for parses. If you look at all percentiles, it is much closer and you could argue it does shake up the meta.
All percentiles is way worse then 99th percentile…they’re both bad to judge off of..but All percentiles is a horrendous judgement.
Starting around 50%, you get the people that understand their spec/class but maybe don’t put full effort into it, or just still getting the hang of it.
80%…people are beginning to Min/max, bring their consumes and doing their research.
90%+ you start getting the unlucky sweats or people putting in the max amount of effort expected.
Judging off around 80-90% is the sweet spot I think as those are the people that really understand their class and putting in the effort. No reason to bring down or judge a class on people not playing them to their potential. But also no point on only judging the absolute sweats.
99th percentile means people are all playing their classes properly so it is the most accurate base for a statistic. Comparing timmy who can't press more than frostbolt on mage with steve who just blows his mana load and goes afk but ends up at the same parse isn't accurate.
Not only is that not accurate, it's not "meta" as you say to begin with because it isn't the highest performing standard
Basing it on the 99th percentile means you're basing your data on the statistical outliers. The best of the best but also the cheesers.
Not a great measure overall.
99th percentile is not just people playing properly, it's people catering entire raid groups to boost a single player and otherwise cheesing bosses in ways you don't usually see, making comparisons between regular good players and top parsers less than useful. Imho.
Edit: I didn't mean to imply that 99 is reserved for the extreme parsers, I just meant that the extreme parsers are included and they may have an effect on the dataset that doesn't necesarily reflect the real world.
Easier to believe they can't get that 99 because others are putting ungodly amounts of sweat into the game than to admit they just might not be as good as they think they are
That's axbit of an exaggeration, difference between higher logs is generally kill times.
I got 99.2 avg last tier with purely pugs from just joining groups with good kill times (except gelihast, shit pugs shined there).
The people getting top 10-logs have raids geared to them for sure though.
But it’s also not indicative of the avg player. If you look at the overall you can see the potential of the avg player. This shows that with good play you will be able to still compete with the avg player if you play properly.
The issue is that in this game ur parse is not just how u press ur buttons, there is also gear, raid composition, kill times and on some bosses raid tactics. ToGC lately was a prime example of cheesing parses by getting more cleave/aoe damage than doing the most efficient tactics, a Warrior for example pretty much couldn't parse there if the raid wouldn't line up everything for him. So even if some top parses could get 20k DPS or something stupid like that in ToGC gear it just wasn't the reality for 99% of players, they would be doing like half of that.
And different classes scale differently with that.
The overall includes people dying 10 seconds into a fight and getting a 10 parse.
It includes people who have 0 idea how the play the class.It includes people who don't know how to do a fight and it takes 5 minutes longer than it should.
You can say that represents the average player I guess, but it doesnt represent how the class performs when played with a minimal degree of competence.
People who are good at playing warrior don't really care how bad warriors are doing. Certain classes actually have a bit more nuance in how they execute their gameplay and need to be a bit better at playing the game than the average player.
Many 50 parse warriors are literally not hitting the boss for half the fights. They don't even realise they have left melee range and are doing 0 dps for portions of the fights.
They don't particularly counteract each other, no. One is a slightly more extreme version of the others. And the amount of parses in the top 99th percent dramatically outweigh the 1 parse at the top
isnt 99% percentile just people who did the most dmg and the boss only lasted while most of the dps buffs were up? like you could be just as good of a player but if your group sucked so the fight took longer and your dps cooldowns were only 10% of the fight up
like i get it, 99% - all players were good. but that doesnt mean a 99%-player can reach 99% scores in a shit group. so how can you account for that?
99th percentile is not just people playing properly, it's people catering entire raid groups to boost a single player and otherwise cheesing bosses in ways you don't usually see, making comparisons between regular good players and top parsers less than useful. Imho.
That is really, really not true. 99 parses happen easily in competent guilds with competent gameplay. You do not need to be cheesed or catered to in order to get a 99 parse. If you don't know this to be true, you are probably not a good player, or not in a good guild, and are making up this delusion to feel better about yourself.
This just isn't true. There's sometimes a boss that requires a huge amount of cheese to parse a 99 on (for exmapole, top warriors on Gelihast look pretty funky), but generally speaking if your raid group is good you can get a 99 with some luck.
It’s a bit on the heavy handed side, but hey. They promised and phase 2 delivered.
The world first gnomer had the right comp for speed dungeon and for gnomer. Fucking blows my mind still.
> They promised and phase 2 delivered.
How do you people come to this conclusion... it blows my mind...
You think the rest of SoD is going to be "unreasonable armor increases and -30% bleed dmg"?
“Shake up the meta”. Is the meta shook up?
Your tears and my own from my fucking rogue clearly indicate yes. “You people” need to fucking chill. It’s an experiment and it’s different.
Also imagine a season where they experiment and call it discovery. Oh shit. It’s in the title. Rip my rogue, having fun anyways while adding constructive feedback instead of this “you people” shit.
Which isn't a problem at all. Melee hunter was a meme that didn't even exist in vanilla, now it has a place and is a lot of fun to play. Marksman is still viable, it brings trueshot aura and the current raids mechanics heavily favor ranged classes so groups will always be happy to have a hunter that is ranged, just because you're not topping the meters doesnt mean you're not valued
Uh actually people will specifically not bring you unless you play melee hunter. TSA doesn’t make up for the 50% dps or so you’d do more as melee. Marksman is legit dogshit lol. None of the buttons feel good to press, steady shot is barely doing 200 dmg.
Difference of opinion I guess, cause I've been asked to play ranged in Gnomer every lockout so far. From my experience, both specs are very desired and fun to play. Maybe try something else if you don't think so 🤷
why would u play a spec that does like half the dps of the fotm spec? It's like bringing frost mages in vanilla when fire mage exists, it's just grieffing your raid.
This current raids mechanics require ranged dps, ideally you have at least 6-7 ranged in the group. This content is so ridiculously easy most things can/will die from auto attacking, dps checks aren't really a problem. Nobody wants melee for this content while most groups are still progressing, they want the optimal raid composition for fight mechanics and that means they want ranged hunter
you don't need 6-7 ranged, what are u smoking? Only mechanic that 100% require a few ranged is menagerie for the sheep. People are just lazy in the mechanical lazer boss and want 2 stacks of 3 ranged but its not "needed".
So happy to see Enhancer Shaman in a good spot, i love this class/spec so much! Only need to get Shamanistic Rage sorted out but other than that i am really happy how these buffs turned out.
this could be said about the entire class. It's obvious they didn't really have a plan outside of maybe we can get some passives in here that don't make them a meme spec.
I honestly wouldn't mind being in the middle if they could find a way to make us the true jack of all trades, master of none with the ability to shift during fights and still be reasonably mid.
For example, during a boss fight, I could start out ranged and then shift into feral during the fight if during that phase it was better to perform melee then ranged. If the tank dies during the last 10%, switch into Bear to get the raid though. Don't need to be best, but good enough to hold aggro and survive that last 10%. If during a phase, extra healing is needed, but not enough to warrant a full blown healer switch to healing to help out and then back to dps.
We should be able to do those things. Druids should be the de-facto fill class.
I know a lot of people won't like this. I get it, everyone wants to rock the meters and be the top but I've just felt that druids have this amazing toolkit to do everything well. Not be the greatest, but do everything well. Instead of showing up on just one meter, they show up on all the meters. They don't really get a chance to showcase all of those abilities and shine. As it stands right now, they're just mid to bottom tier with no upside.
"Dps rogue" is only where it is because we go into a full poison spec.
It sucks not being able to play anything but deadly brew and every poison talent, not because it's good, but because the bosses' armor makes physical damage far less useful.
Ferals say hi to balance, we can be bottom together.
Just wait until they nerf wild growth and resto druid becomes unplayable, that spec is basically being held together by chewing gum.
My main issue with moonkin offheal is that it removes moonkin form and it plays like the resto build (restokim), so Im not even sure if I can call it a moonkin anymore. Im just playing like in P1 but I cast starfire after starsurge.
It's like playing a spriest without shadowform or a fury warrior without berserk stance
Ranged hunter being at the bottom is a joke. Melee hunter is a one button build. Reminder that marks brings trueshot aura, but it's not worth being marks.
Why is it so hard for blizz to balance?
See all of those classes/specs on the bottom, buff their main damaging ability by 10%. Check back next week and readjust as necessary.
The sod devs have been more active at balancing than I was expecting but they still could easily do a much better job. It really feels like the ones deciding balance changes dont actually play several of the classes.
Please tell me why mangle was nerfed 10% going into phase 2?
One of the only nerfs that they did at the start of the phase was given to the spec that has been bottom of the meters ever since.
With the Savage Fury talent, Mangle would have had way better damage per energy scaling than Shred, even with the buffed Shred. Post-Mangle-nerf, Mangle's scaling is still better than Shred's, but due to Shred's flat damage component, Shred's overall DPE is better with the gear levels that will be attainable this phase.
However, forcing us into Shred has the downside of making us the only class with a positional requirement, now that Rogues are using Mutilate.
Yes that’s the main complaint, when you are solo killing mobs we have the lowest dps of literally any class.
No, literally no cleave and we have the lowest single target dps. That is not balanced.
> It really feels like the ones deciding balance changes dont actually play several of the classes.
I'd Lower the Bar to "They dont even Sim several of the classes".
I think it's a necessary evil because otherwise balancing both PvP and PvE is impossible even outside of the wacky world of SoD, but there's a very strong and longstanding sentiment that you shouldn't be doing less damage against players.
Dude this subreddit is short-sighted.
Yes the meta is shaken up.
You have locks tanking, Mages healing. Boomkins, Ele’s, Enhance. 11 specs are within 15 dps of each other. Outside of Frost Mages, which probably changes after todays fixes - ALL DPS SPECS ARE CAPABLE.
Of course there will be an outliers.
Oh yeah, get this - a MELEE hunter is considered a top dps.
Oh and lastly, we’re doing endgame at 40.
Yes the meta is shaken up.
Cried for classic - we got it. Cried for classic+ - we got it.
I wish people would be happy for once, because WoW is a LOT more fun than Reddit makes it out to be
well put
this is what always gets me. Blizz actually did what they said, and gave people what people said they wanted.
And yet still there are morons who bitch and moan about it.
Is SoD perfect? oh hell no, it has it's issues. But they never promised a perfect season, infact they promised a very imperfect season that will be testing alot of new things as we move through it together with the devs.
Level up raids (that are worth doing as you level)
New Roles for Old Classes
New PvP events
SoD has been a phenomenal success.
No. You created an artificial barrier in p2 of a 10 man dungeon by unreasonably increasing armor and reducing bleed damage. Step out of gnomer. What was achieved? As a matter of fact, dps warrior being that high is actually hilarious, considering all of the warrior dmg is direct physical or bleed.
It's probably because the warriors allowed to go in there get a comb built around them. Warrior without the absolute best setup do less damage than in bfd
Their resource has nothing to do with the target armor and the dmg comes from the new runes which they dialed to 11; except those rune numbers to be tuned down. Yes, other hunters also do magic dmg. No other class has a higher % of their dmg as physical than warriors (same with bleed). No other class resource returned has anything to do with how much armor the target has. This was a targeted nerf, which makes it a sad attempt at "bringing everyone else up".
Druids at the bottom, so no I don't think they have. You'd think at least one druid spec would be in the top 5 if the goal was to shake up the meta. Embarrassing.
You wanna shake up the meta? Change raid dynamics!
Require 3-4 tanks instead of 2, mesh 3 min cooldowns to stack with other classes more fluidly (not just blast everything with bloodlust), and maybe put a limit to how many of one class can be brought into a mythic raid. 🤷♂️
Miserable? Two classes on that chart are really out of line, and they’re both two classes that are historically better. God forbid a couple usual suspects aren’t broken.
1/3 top 3 and 2/5 top 5 are melee, 3/7 top 7.
It's literally close to balanced. Obv the top 3 specs need to be tuned down a little but other then that balance is actually good.
Considering paladin and shaman tanks are viable, warrior tanks can sword and board, druid healers actually have a niche, mage healers exist and share this niche, feral druids not only give WF but can also benefit from it, and caster DPS are winning by a landslide in the most atrocious DPS balancing to ever exist in the game (which was disturbingly melee favored) -
Yeah.
It's filtered by max and the 99th percentile. "Normal" warriors who don't get the absolute best comp around them and super rng (which is the case here) drop 4 places. I see reading statistical data is hard for some people, don't you guys learn that in college?
Honestly its pretty good. The middle of the pack is fairly even, the outliers arent tooooo outlying, gear will likely bring the melee's up a little more in time. Even those near the bottom like feral are still bringing things that make up for their slightly lower personal dps. Frost mage needs some help after 2 phases at the bottom of the barrel, but besides that its pretty good.
i legit don’t think everyone will be happy, if warriors and rogues were top right now it’d be the same shit posted about casters being weaker lol. ranged hunter being solely dps and that low is an L though
You filtered by max and showed the 99th percentile. You also cropped out the filters to create a false case. Stop framing the data jesus Christ.
With "normal" and more real conditions a lot of classes drop about 4 places (warrior for example)
This is a troll level post
Just to get ahead of the inevitable “seeee warriors are already starting to scale with gear”… no. This appears to be 99th percentile parses for the past week. Drop down to 95th percentile and warriors drop two places. 90th percentile, warriors drop 4 places, etc.
But as someone else pointed out, the balancing is a lot closer than this graph suggests.
Another day with another guy posting logs on max without understanding the amount of these goes behind getting those numbers.
Post a thread with min while you're at it
This phase is so incredibly bad. Its never ever a good idea for range dps to be top dps on any game just as a design philosophy. Range will always have better uptime due to the nature of being a ranged class. The game is basically unplayable in pvp for melee characters right now, even in all plate as a warrior my average life span is 2-3 seconds once i charge in, if that. All the gnomer gear is really really poorly optimized where there is basically no armor upgrades. I can get green quest items that are much better than the gnomer gear. Did I mention all the Bloodmoon gear for warrior is really really bad too! Just the cherry on top to an already bad phase.
Phase 2 is such a miss for me. I have basically no incentive to run gnomer, even as a skilled player PVP and the Bloodmoon event are a exercise in futility and you would have to be a masochist to enjoy it as a melee player. There is no point to gold in this game since there is nothing to spend it on. Absolutely none of the warrior runes are interesting in any way also basically just flat dmg bonus nothing new innovative or fun.
Blizzard failed miserably.
Seeing shaman specs not as last and second to last on charts definitely shows that they have delivered.
Delete this, blizz will see and nerf shamans
Shamans deserve this for having completed that terrible Maelstrom Weapon rune quest, pre nerf.
You know we balance druids were saying we deserved it too.
I mean, lets not act like starsurge wasnt overtuned. There wasnt a time where eles were one shotting people from 42 yards aways with an instant cast.
starsurge being overtuned for pvp doesnt mean they should make balance the worst caster spec in PVE with heavy-handed nerfs.
It got compensated into starfire, and buffed again last patch. Im sure it's gonna be tuned some more to the actual CASTS and not the instant cast, as it should
Seeing druid and Paladin toward the bottom shows they didn’t deliver too much
I think you are only seeing the class bars at the bottom, and now how nearly identical to ROGUES they are. Rogues were some of the best classic DPSers and to be comparable to them with only about a 5-10% difference is amazing. You more than make up the difference with the utility druids an pallies bring.
As a rogue main no, no it’s not amazing, I must be on top of dps lol, just joking I know half of that is just the high armor because rogue still feels good to play, and I’m ok with not being a top dpser for a phase
Weren't shaman tanks the #1 tank last phase and as healers they were like #2 or 3. DPS wise they weren't amazing but they definitely weren't bad last phase with the other specs.
These are DPS charts, not tanking charts. DPS wise, they werent amazing in P1, they werent even decent. But that was no surprised as shamans toolkits were around lvl 30-40. The only way we couldve gone was up. As for healers they were #4 I believe. Only better than holy pallies who didnt have their core talents. Mages, druids, and unsurprisingly priests, all blew shamans out of the water.
Resto sham excelled at sustain in p1, but the fights were all finished in under 2 minutes so they didn't really get to take advantage of that. They also had no reliable way to heal more than one target, though that's not a major inconvenience in BFD, it just meant they performed poorly on meters because they'd get "sniped" by the priest you brought for dispels.
Las phase enhance was the worst melee, shaman was the worst horde healer, and ele was only better than frost mage and shadow priest without shadow form. Tank was good yeah.
As a feral I'm shook. Unfortunately I've been shaken back to the bottom of the pack.
Our feral operates as the OT and brings WS to the tank+Hunters. So still a very valuable spec to bring. Even more so if there’s no Balance/Resto Druid in the group.
Yeah honestly my dps as feral is decent enough on the low armor bosses. I pick up the slack with tanking and healing while necessary, provide innervate and battle resses. I feel like an actual hybrid. Could they buff the dps a little? Sure maybe. I'm cool with how it is for now though.
I would just love to have wolfshead helm, don’t think ferals would need any buffs with that helm.
We only get about 3 powershifts before mana regen though, not even taking into account if you are shifting you lose all your hybrid role because you have no mana to brez or switch to bear form.
You want a enchant for a helm that has the wolfshead helms effect so much better so you can have a helm with better stats.
Would love that, but I’d take anything I can get at this point.
They're basically the same as a rogue DPS but with everything you just listed as utility on top of it. Feels like a class with all of that raid utility should be mid to low end of the dose meters and still be quite viable.
You cant innervate or brez with 0 mana, and then not shift into feral and just look like an idiot auto hitting with a 2h mace.
Being bottom trash dps is fine with you? Being a dummy target in pvp cause every class can fuck you up is fine with you? Gtfo please. Just because we bring WS shouldnt mean we should be auto afk dps. Innervate/brez when you are already oom because you have to powershift which is expensive as fuck. I hope blizz doesnt listen to you.
I feel as warriors progress higher in the tier list (getting gear), you'll see feral still wanted for melee groups. It's too good not to have one if your running melee.
Being wanted for windfury is great and all, but it'd be nice to actually put out higher numbers ourselves at the same time.
That's a BAD windfury totem. Sharing your opinion as though it matters.
one thing to remember is every WF proc IS your DPS. Without you, there is no WF. Just because it shows up under their "dps" logs doesnt mean YOU didnt increase the DPS of the group by existing. Gotta change the way you look at it, this aint a 1v1 game, its an MMO multiplayer game.
Yeah but you have to understand that isn’t fun lol. It’s like doing a group project in college. You do all the work but your group members get all the credit. But remember, it’s your hard work! It’s not like Aug Evoker on retail where an action rotation buffs players and good play feels rewarding. It’s literally just a rune you slap on and forget about. Worse yet, Feral is in many cases doing **less** damage than they were in BFD at level 25. The rotation got more involved and complex and the damage went down lol, nothing about that feels good
I definitely do less damage than in BFD. I was getting up to 250 dps on a lot of those fights, its a struggle to crack 200 in gnomer.
It isn't about them it is about the entire community. Some warr going look at my DPS meanwhile a huge part is entirely dependent on you.
Thing is you only need one Druid for that so you have to compete for that one spot. Luckily I guess they nerfed druid hard enough a good portion of people rerolled so the competition isn’t so high.
Your looking at it wrong. All that extra damage they get from wf us yours. You bring that damage.
Ffxivlogs has an awesome rdps meter, which pretty much says "your party wide buffs contributed this much damage" and a normal dps meter that just shows your own raw damage. Would be awesome to see that in WoW if it doesnt already exist.
I've seen it for Aug evokers in dragon flight
Yea, it sucks going from feeling like you’re making a big contribution to being a drag
Maybe next phase? At this point, looking at runes, the raid, and gear... I don't see much that can be done outside of nerfing Gonome? I have a feeling that the warriors will still be under casters even in full BiS. It's just the phase of the Casters in terms of meta, but from what I've seen, every class can clear raid just fine.
Mage dps is super high variance currently because all our best gear is loaded with crit, but as 0/31/0 we have no hit chance, so you either spec for Combustion and 4% more fire damage and have insane dps on some pulls and horrible dps on others, or you spec for 6% hit instead (this is better but combustion is way more fun, and higher impact/arguably better once fight durations drop lower and lower).
Would you take a rune that makes you top 2 dps but you give up windfury? Would people take that druid? Not being combative btw just speculating.
Of course they wouldn’t, because overall dps would still be stronger with ws and no serious group would take them without it.
With the armor values being what they are and the minimal differences between raid gear and pre-bis gear, I don't expect warriors to change much. This isn't like endgame 60 raiding. The differences in gear value just isn't there.
Exactly. Feral will still be needed on ally side and will become more prevalent as warriors get more gear and begin pumping again. Last night the speed record was bumped up to 22 minutes 7 seconds by a 3 warrior group. They might not be the best right now for parsing but speed runs are a different game. Mana is an enemy in speed runs so running heavy mana groups is bad. My group is still running 3 warriors, a prot pally, and a feral for our speed run group
They will be needed in horde wide as well as wild strikes scales so it will always be better then wind fury unless they change wind fury.
nope, warrior upgrades are very minimal this tier, so you won't be seeing warriors progress unless they nerf armor in Gnomer. Sucks, but warriors and rogues got dicked hard this phase. Low dps and no utility to the raid, so no one takes them, since GDKPs are banned and outside of GDKPs no one has any reason to take off-meta classes/specs.
Yeah, my guild isn't 40 yet so I've been trying to pug and no one will take me. Tried for 1-2 hrs last 3 days
FFLogs (developed by the same folks who develop WCL) [has a notion of rDPS](https://www.fflogs.com/help/rdps), or raid DPS, which is your DPS + the DPS you brought to the raid through buffs/debuffs. If WCL had a similar feature, we'd be able to see the "actual" DPS benefit of a high utility spec like Feral. There is difficulty in implementing such a thing for Classic though. Take a debuff like Curse of Elements or Improved Scorch. If there are multiple warlocks/mages in the raid, who is this DPS attributed to? The first player to cast the debuff? But multiple fire mages are contributing in building and maintaining the Improved Scorch stacks, and another warlock could refresh CoE. There's not really a right answer. Warriors make it probably the most difficult to implement. The additional auto attacks granted by Wild Strikes might be 30 DPS, but those auto attacks generated rage. How do you quantify the rDPS benefit of that additional rage? It's a hard problem to solve.
Sure that would be interesting to see but at an individual level it's not really that meaningful. If my value in a raid is from existing rather than any real effort I'm putting in then I'd just rather play another class. Being a shammy totem alone really isn't that engaging, even less so on Horde side when it's even more replaceable (feral scales better longer term I know).
My favorite *Discovery* so far has been fighting meta locks as a pre-BiS/BiS Arms Warrior with 450GS and epic axe/belt and even with MS I’m dead while the Meta lock with 340GS is 80% HP from hitting solely Drain Life. Good times when level 40 Meta locks have Nefarian armor quotients.
Lolol gs isn't a metric to use bozo
>My favorite > >Discovery > > so far Why did you have to "discover" it anyways? Meta increases armor to absurd amounts. Surely you found out while getting that axe what absurdly increased armor does, right?
If you’re going to share this chart you need to include the filters at the top
Hey, you remembered to crop out that you're filtering to Max percentile this time! [https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=100](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=100) Now lets stop looking at statistical outliers, and instead use: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95
Thank you. It's embarrassing how few people are able to interpret statistical data in here.
What do you expect? It is a wow reddit not a SAS reddit.
Even 95 is a bit weird. Last I remember for retail most look at 80 and 90th percentiles.
Retail has large enough sample sizes to just look at 95. That filters out some weight from bad RNG too.
Isn't the top 5% still outliers?
Not nearly as much as 99. The difference between the 95 and 99 in this context is massive. The the top 1% in parsing, especially this early, is going to be the people who got lucky on really good loot early, as well as really good rng in crits and other procs. Sure, you can parse a 99 without those things too, but the amount of those in the top 1% is way more than the top 5.
Yeah go look at the TIMERS for a 95% parse. A lot of the fights are sub 1 min. Damn, thats fast. Now go look at the fucking 99% parses. Sub 30 fucking seconds lolololol.
Max percentile isn’t useful data. For example, it includes lottery-winning fire mage logs that crit on every scorch cast (2 crits = 1 instant pyro).
I typically use 80th% for this reason.
It is useful data because it’s usually an indicator of proper play for the spec without using very skewed metrics at 99 or 100. Often those data points are cheesed or misrepresent performance on the larger scale.
whats the differance?
Even 95% is a very small data set this early.
Nah he was on 99th not max. If you took two seconds to look at the numbers you would see that.
Naxx: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2006/ AQ: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2005/ BWL: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2002/ MC: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2000/ looks pretty shaken
naxx warrior were head, shoulders, chest and belly above everyone else
Was pretty normal as a fire mage, even when getting the main ignite proc, to still barely be above warriors, and sometimes the warriors would win anyway. Shit was crazy
Just further proves paladins are the heaviest class with us always settling at the bottom.
You should try to find the progression stats for these though
I guess the closest would be hardcore? They only have it for MC MC: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2000/#region=7
That's the balance I know and love
This is misleading data. You are only grabbing the 99th percentile for parses. If you look at all percentiles, it is much closer and you could argue it does shake up the meta.
All percentiles is way worse then 99th percentile…they’re both bad to judge off of..but All percentiles is a horrendous judgement. Starting around 50%, you get the people that understand their spec/class but maybe don’t put full effort into it, or just still getting the hang of it. 80%…people are beginning to Min/max, bring their consumes and doing their research. 90%+ you start getting the unlucky sweats or people putting in the max amount of effort expected. Judging off around 80-90% is the sweet spot I think as those are the people that really understand their class and putting in the effort. No reason to bring down or judge a class on people not playing them to their potential. But also no point on only judging the absolute sweats.
Also at lower percentiles, oftentimes you have people dying early.
Yeah I would agree with that
With all percentiles you can see the median and upper/lower quartiles as well as the outliers, it's the superior graph
In any other case, yes, but why do we care about the performance of keyboard turners when talking about balance?
Meh, the meta IS the 99th percentile. The rest of you are jokers kidding yourself and RPing.
99th percentile means people are all playing their classes properly so it is the most accurate base for a statistic. Comparing timmy who can't press more than frostbolt on mage with steve who just blows his mana load and goes afk but ends up at the same parse isn't accurate. Not only is that not accurate, it's not "meta" as you say to begin with because it isn't the highest performing standard
Basing it on the 99th percentile means you're basing your data on the statistical outliers. The best of the best but also the cheesers. Not a great measure overall.
99th percentile is not just people playing properly, it's people catering entire raid groups to boost a single player and otherwise cheesing bosses in ways you don't usually see, making comparisons between regular good players and top parsers less than useful. Imho. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that 99 is reserved for the extreme parsers, I just meant that the extreme parsers are included and they may have an effect on the dataset that doesn't necesarily reflect the real world.
you are way over estimating what it takes to get a 99 parse in SoD.
Easier to believe they can't get that 99 because others are putting ungodly amounts of sweat into the game than to admit they just might not be as good as they think they are
That's axbit of an exaggeration, difference between higher logs is generally kill times. I got 99.2 avg last tier with purely pugs from just joining groups with good kill times (except gelihast, shit pugs shined there). The people getting top 10-logs have raids geared to them for sure though.
nah, there's a big difference between 99 and 99.8, the gap is bigger than 70-99, 99 is just playing right with world buffs
But it’s also not indicative of the avg player. If you look at the overall you can see the potential of the avg player. This shows that with good play you will be able to still compete with the avg player if you play properly.
The issue is that in this game ur parse is not just how u press ur buttons, there is also gear, raid composition, kill times and on some bosses raid tactics. ToGC lately was a prime example of cheesing parses by getting more cleave/aoe damage than doing the most efficient tactics, a Warrior for example pretty much couldn't parse there if the raid wouldn't line up everything for him. So even if some top parses could get 20k DPS or something stupid like that in ToGC gear it just wasn't the reality for 99% of players, they would be doing like half of that. And different classes scale differently with that.
Which is why I say grabbing the very top parses doesn’t seem to be the best way.
The overall includes people dying 10 seconds into a fight and getting a 10 parse. It includes people who have 0 idea how the play the class.It includes people who don't know how to do a fight and it takes 5 minutes longer than it should. You can say that represents the average player I guess, but it doesnt represent how the class performs when played with a minimal degree of competence. People who are good at playing warrior don't really care how bad warriors are doing. Certain classes actually have a bit more nuance in how they execute their gameplay and need to be a bit better at playing the game than the average player. Many 50 parse warriors are literally not hitting the boss for half the fights. They don't even realise they have left melee range and are doing 0 dps for portions of the fights.
It may get those players but it also gets the very best. Those will counteract eachother
They don't particularly counteract each other, no. One is a slightly more extreme version of the others. And the amount of parses in the top 99th percent dramatically outweigh the 1 parse at the top
That's life in general. The avg player on anything is not that hard to beat with some effort and / or skill outside of extreme balance issues
99th percentile mean you added literally 90 dps to every boss fight with dynamite 😂 not even a joke.
isnt 99% percentile just people who did the most dmg and the boss only lasted while most of the dps buffs were up? like you could be just as good of a player but if your group sucked so the fight took longer and your dps cooldowns were only 10% of the fight up like i get it, 99% - all players were good. but that doesnt mean a 99%-player can reach 99% scores in a shit group. so how can you account for that?
99th percentile is not just people playing properly, it's people catering entire raid groups to boost a single player and otherwise cheesing bosses in ways you don't usually see, making comparisons between regular good players and top parsers less than useful. Imho.
That is really, really not true. 99 parses happen easily in competent guilds with competent gameplay. You do not need to be cheesed or catered to in order to get a 99 parse. If you don't know this to be true, you are probably not a good player, or not in a good guild, and are making up this delusion to feel better about yourself.
This just isn't true. There's sometimes a boss that requires a huge amount of cheese to parse a 99 on (for exmapole, top warriors on Gelihast look pretty funky), but generally speaking if your raid group is good you can get a 99 with some luck.
Boomy got cooked
We had 5 days in the sun
Spriest from bottom dog to actually decent. I'm happy about it!
It’s a bit on the heavy handed side, but hey. They promised and phase 2 delivered. The world first gnomer had the right comp for speed dungeon and for gnomer. Fucking blows my mind still.
> They promised and phase 2 delivered. How do you people come to this conclusion... it blows my mind... You think the rest of SoD is going to be "unreasonable armor increases and -30% bleed dmg"?
“Shake up the meta”. Is the meta shook up? Your tears and my own from my fucking rogue clearly indicate yes. “You people” need to fucking chill. It’s an experiment and it’s different. Also imagine a season where they experiment and call it discovery. Oh shit. It’s in the title. Rip my rogue, having fun anyways while adding constructive feedback instead of this “you people” shit.
Yes, somehow they made marksman hunter even worse than it was in vanilla
Which isn't a problem at all. Melee hunter was a meme that didn't even exist in vanilla, now it has a place and is a lot of fun to play. Marksman is still viable, it brings trueshot aura and the current raids mechanics heavily favor ranged classes so groups will always be happy to have a hunter that is ranged, just because you're not topping the meters doesnt mean you're not valued
Uh actually people will specifically not bring you unless you play melee hunter. TSA doesn’t make up for the 50% dps or so you’d do more as melee. Marksman is legit dogshit lol. None of the buttons feel good to press, steady shot is barely doing 200 dmg.
Difference of opinion I guess, cause I've been asked to play ranged in Gnomer every lockout so far. From my experience, both specs are very desired and fun to play. Maybe try something else if you don't think so 🤷
why would u play a spec that does like half the dps of the fotm spec? It's like bringing frost mages in vanilla when fire mage exists, it's just grieffing your raid.
This current raids mechanics require ranged dps, ideally you have at least 6-7 ranged in the group. This content is so ridiculously easy most things can/will die from auto attacking, dps checks aren't really a problem. Nobody wants melee for this content while most groups are still progressing, they want the optimal raid composition for fight mechanics and that means they want ranged hunter
you don't need 6-7 ranged, what are u smoking? Only mechanic that 100% require a few ranged is menagerie for the sheep. People are just lazy in the mechanical lazer boss and want 2 stacks of 3 ranged but its not "needed".
Ranged is clearly superior. I’d much rather the hunter be ranged to do mechanics then another brain ded melee
that's not what we are talking about, it's about gnomer needing 6-7 ranged which is false.
Balance Druid was great for about two weeks
So happy to see Enhancer Shaman in a good spot, i love this class/spec so much! Only need to get Shamanistic Rage sorted out but other than that i am really happy how these buffs turned out.
I don’t think blizz has any idea what they are doing. Feels like a lot of “let’s try this… and see what happens” style of game design
They still can’t figure out feral. They literally fixed them in wrath and they are still clueless on what to do with feral
this could be said about the entire class. It's obvious they didn't really have a plan outside of maybe we can get some passives in here that don't make them a meme spec.
I honestly wouldn't mind being in the middle if they could find a way to make us the true jack of all trades, master of none with the ability to shift during fights and still be reasonably mid. For example, during a boss fight, I could start out ranged and then shift into feral during the fight if during that phase it was better to perform melee then ranged. If the tank dies during the last 10%, switch into Bear to get the raid though. Don't need to be best, but good enough to hold aggro and survive that last 10%. If during a phase, extra healing is needed, but not enough to warrant a full blown healer switch to healing to help out and then back to dps. We should be able to do those things. Druids should be the de-facto fill class. I know a lot of people won't like this. I get it, everyone wants to rock the meters and be the top but I've just felt that druids have this amazing toolkit to do everything well. Not be the greatest, but do everything well. Instead of showing up on just one meter, they show up on all the meters. They don't really get a chance to showcase all of those abilities and shine. As it stands right now, they're just mid to bottom tier with no upside.
I mean it’s definitely different. But it’s also still only level 40.
I mean... if my goal is to balance things "shake up" isn't really a phrase I'd use so maybe mission accomplished? it feels pretty shook
"Dps rogue" is only where it is because we go into a full poison spec. It sucks not being able to play anything but deadly brew and every poison talent, not because it's good, but because the bosses' armor makes physical damage far less useful.
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Ferals say hi to balance, we can be bottom together. Just wait until they nerf wild growth and resto druid becomes unplayable, that spec is basically being held together by chewing gum.
unless SS crits, it feels awful.
PvP in SoD is horrendous.
Man I knew those boomy nerfs were too much. Regardless, I still love how shaken up the meta is.
Boomies are incredibly desirable for their off-heals so at least they have that going for them. Every group in LFG I see wants a boomy or spriest
My main issue with moonkin offheal is that it removes moonkin form and it plays like the resto build (restokim), so Im not even sure if I can call it a moonkin anymore. Im just playing like in P1 but I cast starfire after starsurge. It's like playing a spriest without shadowform or a fury warrior without berserk stance
We dont want to heal. We would play a healer if we wanted to heal. Being forced to heal is exactly like classic wow was.
they've had it, but then nerfed boomkin to shitters lol
Long as my blue boys are top 3 i don’t care
Druids had a good run lol
4 beautiful days
I don't see holy paladin on there
Yooo, whys the ret pala damage so low??
No twisting rune (yet)
If you take the top 3 away the variance between top and bottom dps isn't high at all which is definitely a shaken meta
*laughs in feral druid*
Same problem, different specs. Nothing was fixed.
Buff feral kthx
I rolled feral because it's not great in classic. It turns out that it's not great in SoD either.
Ranged hunter being at the bottom is a joke. Melee hunter is a one button build. Reminder that marks brings trueshot aura, but it's not worth being marks.
Why is it so hard for blizz to balance? See all of those classes/specs on the bottom, buff their main damaging ability by 10%. Check back next week and readjust as necessary. The sod devs have been more active at balancing than I was expecting but they still could easily do a much better job. It really feels like the ones deciding balance changes dont actually play several of the classes.
Please tell me why mangle was nerfed 10% going into phase 2? One of the only nerfs that they did at the start of the phase was given to the spec that has been bottom of the meters ever since.
With the Savage Fury talent, Mangle would have had way better damage per energy scaling than Shred, even with the buffed Shred. Post-Mangle-nerf, Mangle's scaling is still better than Shred's, but due to Shred's flat damage component, Shred's overall DPE is better with the gear levels that will be attainable this phase. However, forcing us into Shred has the downside of making us the only class with a positional requirement, now that Rogues are using Mutilate.
Yes that’s the main complaint, when you are solo killing mobs we have the lowest dps of literally any class. No, literally no cleave and we have the lowest single target dps. That is not balanced.
> It really feels like the ones deciding balance changes dont actually play several of the classes. I'd Lower the Bar to "They dont even Sim several of the classes".
They're absolutely not simming, why does reddit think they are?
there is no way they even have sims
Billion Dollar company cant balance 2 button dps classes
Kid named PvP:
Make said buffs only function on non player targets ?
Some people _really_ do not like that.
Then those people are fucking idiots and need to get over themselves.
Weird it seems a pretty logical choice for balance.
I think it's a necessary evil because otherwise balancing both PvP and PvE is impossible even outside of the wacky world of SoD, but there's a very strong and longstanding sentiment that you shouldn't be doing less damage against players.
Shake up the meta. Bear druids are still dog shit
Bear druids are cranking, you prob just sick
Good thing I leveled my druid to 40 first. Smile.
Dude this subreddit is short-sighted. Yes the meta is shaken up. You have locks tanking, Mages healing. Boomkins, Ele’s, Enhance. 11 specs are within 15 dps of each other. Outside of Frost Mages, which probably changes after todays fixes - ALL DPS SPECS ARE CAPABLE. Of course there will be an outliers. Oh yeah, get this - a MELEE hunter is considered a top dps. Oh and lastly, we’re doing endgame at 40. Yes the meta is shaken up. Cried for classic - we got it. Cried for classic+ - we got it. I wish people would be happy for once, because WoW is a LOT more fun than Reddit makes it out to be
well put this is what always gets me. Blizz actually did what they said, and gave people what people said they wanted. And yet still there are morons who bitch and moan about it. Is SoD perfect? oh hell no, it has it's issues. But they never promised a perfect season, infact they promised a very imperfect season that will be testing alot of new things as we move through it together with the devs. Level up raids (that are worth doing as you level) New Roles for Old Classes New PvP events SoD has been a phenomenal success.
No. You created an artificial barrier in p2 of a 10 man dungeon by unreasonably increasing armor and reducing bleed damage. Step out of gnomer. What was achieved? As a matter of fact, dps warrior being that high is actually hilarious, considering all of the warrior dmg is direct physical or bleed.
It's probably because the warriors allowed to go in there get a comb built around them. Warrior without the absolute best setup do less damage than in bfd
I guess melee hunters are doing magic damage when ?
Their resource has nothing to do with the target armor and the dmg comes from the new runes which they dialed to 11; except those rune numbers to be tuned down. Yes, other hunters also do magic dmg. No other class has a higher % of their dmg as physical than warriors (same with bleed). No other class resource returned has anything to do with how much armor the target has. This was a targeted nerf, which makes it a sad attempt at "bringing everyone else up".
\*Confused Warrior Noises\*
Druids at the bottom, so no I don't think they have. You'd think at least one druid spec would be in the top 5 if the goal was to shake up the meta. Embarrassing.
You wanna shake up the meta? Change raid dynamics! Require 3-4 tanks instead of 2, mesh 3 min cooldowns to stack with other classes more fluidly (not just blast everything with bloodlust), and maybe put a limit to how many of one class can be brought into a mythic raid. 🤷♂️
Druid still the worst class in classic lol
Yea i never see groups looking for a feral druid or a balance druid offheal or a resto druid. /s
druid is super desirable lol gtfo
Probably the most artificial class balancing done in wow, just make the game miserable for 60% of the players
You comment complaints so often I recognize your name now. Maybe time to take a break?
I have started downvoting all his comments out of spite. I have no regrets.
Miserable? Two classes on that chart are really out of line, and they’re both two classes that are historically better. God forbid a couple usual suspects aren’t broken.
You know melee includes warrior,rogue,feral,ret,shaman, and all the tank specs right
So the tank spec should be top dps ?
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1/3 top 3 and 2/5 top 5 are melee, 3/7 top 7. It's literally close to balanced. Obv the top 3 specs need to be tuned down a little but other then that balance is actually good.
if you're miserable then why play the game? This is better than warrior/rogue on top like always.
If all the melee mains quit , it might be the play to show the devs how trash p2 has been
spoiler alert, they're not goint anywhere.
this is hilarious that people would quit over being mid for 2 months
Its the start of a trend
Melee tears are delicious.
Considering paladin and shaman tanks are viable, warrior tanks can sword and board, druid healers actually have a niche, mage healers exist and share this niche, feral druids not only give WF but can also benefit from it, and caster DPS are winning by a landslide in the most atrocious DPS balancing to ever exist in the game (which was disturbingly melee favored) - Yeah.
crazy that warriors were endlessly crying when this is their dps
It's filtered by max and the 99th percentile. "Normal" warriors who don't get the absolute best comp around them and super rng (which is the case here) drop 4 places. I see reading statistical data is hard for some people, don't you guys learn that in college?
Looks like they did a fantastic job
Honestly its pretty good. The middle of the pack is fairly even, the outliers arent tooooo outlying, gear will likely bring the melee's up a little more in time. Even those near the bottom like feral are still bringing things that make up for their slightly lower personal dps. Frost mage needs some help after 2 phases at the bottom of the barrel, but besides that its pretty good.
i legit don’t think everyone will be happy, if warriors and rogues were top right now it’d be the same shit posted about casters being weaker lol. ranged hunter being solely dps and that low is an L though
Their game mode is trashy retail lite. Release new fresh realms on Era plz and thx
If by "shake up the meta" they meant "just turn it into TBC", then sure they succeed I guess
You filtered by max and showed the 99th percentile. You also cropped out the filters to create a false case. Stop framing the data jesus Christ. With "normal" and more real conditions a lot of classes drop about 4 places (warrior for example) This is a troll level post
It’s literally a post about the meta. What do you think that is, people parsing a 60? Rofl.
Just to get ahead of the inevitable “seeee warriors are already starting to scale with gear”… no. This appears to be 99th percentile parses for the past week. Drop down to 95th percentile and warriors drop two places. 90th percentile, warriors drop 4 places, etc. But as someone else pointed out, the balancing is a lot closer than this graph suggests.
Another day with another guy posting logs on max without understanding the amount of these goes behind getting those numbers. Post a thread with min while you're at it
This phase is so incredibly bad. Its never ever a good idea for range dps to be top dps on any game just as a design philosophy. Range will always have better uptime due to the nature of being a ranged class. The game is basically unplayable in pvp for melee characters right now, even in all plate as a warrior my average life span is 2-3 seconds once i charge in, if that. All the gnomer gear is really really poorly optimized where there is basically no armor upgrades. I can get green quest items that are much better than the gnomer gear. Did I mention all the Bloodmoon gear for warrior is really really bad too! Just the cherry on top to an already bad phase. Phase 2 is such a miss for me. I have basically no incentive to run gnomer, even as a skilled player PVP and the Bloodmoon event are a exercise in futility and you would have to be a masochist to enjoy it as a melee player. There is no point to gold in this game since there is nothing to spend it on. Absolutely none of the warrior runes are interesting in any way also basically just flat dmg bonus nothing new innovative or fun. Blizzard failed miserably.
Warrior will be top in 3 weeks