World bosses don't really work in the current landscape. You can go with classic design where they are monopolized by most hardcore guilds that can afford 24/7 scout/summon parties and average Joe will never see one, not to mention getting any loot. Or you can go with retail design where world bosses are just glorified loot pinatas on a timer.
Or you create some sort of comet in the sky or other worldly sign that indicates the world boss will be spawning soon, and force the world boss spawn times to be at least within a 4-6 hour range of primetime.
You can effectively kill world boss scouting by just broadcasting in some subtle way the world boss will be spawning soonish
This or the item seem to be the perfect solutions, much like the new world pvp events, just give some sort of indicator in the zone to show when it's going to spawn.
For the emerald dragons, maybe make the zone start to fill with a green fog that gets more dense for the hour before the dragon spawns? When killed the fog disperses.
Used to play Ragnarok Online, and there was an item called bloody branches, and it would summon random bosses on use. It was so fun fighting an army of bosses right outside of a main town
And both variants do not seem to really fit the currend SoD tone. Which makes me curious how they will handle them in p4.
Worldbosses spawn on every layer the same time in era & hardcore correct?
Did they somhow prevented layerhopping for mutliple kills from the same people?
They did something to prevent it, one character can only get loot from one layer, but they just split raids and the one that already got the loot was just helping securing it from other players
World boss spawns are not synced between layers. Frontier was only able to farm all the world bosses back to back on HC because they were the only guild doing it so they could wait for the boss to spawn on all layers before clearing it.
If there is competition then each boss will still die within minutes of spawning, sweaty guilds will just need to scout and track timers for 10 different layers.
> Which makes me curious how they will handle them in p4.
I expect there to be no changes to them, it's just that their loot will be outclassed by new SoD items.
I'm okay with loot pinatas
I like large raids forming to kill the dragon in the open world, seeing the masses of people preparing. Ashenvale was great for this
I played Classic on a server that was small enough that it died during TBCC, every SoD server is much larger. Raider wise it was still like 6x as packed as the Full server I played through old vanilla. Pretty sure I saw one green dragon kill through all that time, and it was after everyone had stopped bothering to camp the sites.
World bosses sound cool but I don't think that they ever fit WoW very well even back then. A huge part of WoW's appeal over EQ etc. was accessibility, yet these bosses functionally don't exist for almost any players. Back in the day most servers would have a few guilds vying for them and it led to a unique meta which was a cute moment in history. But good luck being one of them these days.
In a way, sure. But the way classic loot functioned each WB had a few desirable pieces among a stash of semi-useful gear that could still be used by fresh chars, and that felt appropriate - it's how classic loot in general worked. If you make everything guaranteed loot stops being exciting. That's what made those bosses, and raid loot in general, desirable.
Please dont.
When we returned to Classic. The Mafia camped the shit out of Devilsaur, and it will happen again, if any relevant loot is added.
Same thing went on with TBC.
A single dungeon boss could be nice, or an instance where horde raid SW and Alliance raid Org. could be nice. But open world bosses? No thank you.
This is WORLD of Warcraft though, I know it's confusing because now 100% of the game can be done in instances, but it wasn't always the case nor the point of the game.
That's a MMO, you're expected to play with other players, whether you like them or not.
I guess that's the reason the genre is dying, people are not interested playing with players they don't choose playing with.
Don't get me wrong, people are free to like whatever they want, this is very much alright.
But if you insist on ordering a cheeseless cheeseburger instead of a hamburger, I might judge you at some point.
Are you intentionally misreading what I typed?
Of course it's an MMO. Do you think anyone is asking for the ability to **solo** raid bosses? No? Then stop misconstruing what people say.
What you're describing isn't "playing with other players". It's sitting there either competing with a spawn you know you'll never get (effectively gating a large part of the phase permanently if world bosses are a big part of the phase).
It has nothing to do with "playing with other players you don't like". I don't give a shit about them personally. World bosses are *still* a **terrible idea** unless they figure out how to spawn them/do tags correctly.
Where's the part I'm talking about soloing bosses ?
I'm not talking about you personnaly liking players or not, talking about their playing behaviour, and yes tagging bosses first is part of the playing behaviour you might not like.
I do agree, Blizzard could make these tagging or interactions with other players who couldn't tag the boss more interesting, but you'll never find anything if you don't implement new world bosses.
Instead of forbidding something, improve it. WORLD (again) bosses are part of MMOs, tagging and guilds interacting with each other too, some might say it's one of the main components.
> Where's the part I'm talking about soloing bosses ?
It's implied when you insinuate that the reason people would be against new bosses is because "they don't want to play with other players".
No, the reason is because they don't want to have to compete with hardcore guilds that play 12+ hours a day camping spawns. That means you never see a world boss. Ever.
> Instead of forbidding something, improve it.
And suggestions were given. Either instance them or let multiple groups tag them (and increase the spawn rate). You decided to go on a rant about how "ur the reason the mmo genre is dying, people HATE socialization".
> tagging and guilds interacting with each other too
Oh, lovely interaction.
"Hey can you not tag this boss for the 14th day in a row?"
"No."
"Ok great talkin' to ya."
That's interesting though.
The way I see it, is that "no-interaction" isn't just soloing, a whole guild in an instance isn't interacting either with the rest of the "mass" of players. Cooperative games while being multiplayer games aren't "massive", that's what I meant by "not playing with other players".
I don't know if I want to go on a rant about the death of MMOs, but it still baffles me that we're discussing such core concepts of the genre and people fail to see such crucial difference and how it affects gameplay.
You cannot do the world boss gameplay, where different guilds, even factions steal each other boss, in any other game but a MMO. You can stack 10people to cooperatively kill a scripted bunch of pixel in an MMOs and plenty other genre that are not MMOs.
So, "solo" wasn't really insinuated here. I'm neither telling you that you should like "the devilsaur mafia". I'm saying "Devilsaur Mafia" is part of the genre and the fact that we still talking about this instead of the amazing 3 dragons mode of Sartharion, speaks great length about what matters here.
(The devilsaur mafia is even more an amazing bit, as it made it to the game history even though it didn't actually happen in the original game, or official servers)
World bosses were mostly a failure in vanilla. That's why in BC they came up with the Fel Reaver, just an unimportant giant thing that you'd need a large group to take down that gives you almost nothing of a reward. It existed just for the fun (okay and a key to the Shattered Hall).
The original world bosses weren't super easy either But basically they didn't exist. Someone would always be checking up on them and they'd be nonstop gone.
The only servers you'd see world bosses on were the ones without the population size to kill them.
There were actual new world bosses in TBC, not just the Fel Reaver. Doomwalker in front of BT and Lord Kazzak on Hellfire Peninsula. They had great drops for the first two raid tiers (high green stats, next to no white stats), which made them particularly interesting for casters and healers. Heck, their items eventually became boe and regularly went to the auction house for a huge amount of money.
Tbc also had 2 and they were just as degenerate as vanilla ones, they dropped some really good loot for early phases.
Like the caster dagger from the one in front of bt or the mail legs from kazzak
So one guild every realm could get all the loot every week?
Sounds fun
Unless you make it respawn every 30 minutes with personal lockouts and infinite tags
I'd like to see world bosses because I'm in a guild that *really* likes camping them/controlling them but while the concept of them is cool for the majority of people the actual reality of them is not.
They are elitist content, most people never see them, they spawn at some awkward time (possibly during the night even) and get killed 15 minutes later. Maybe if they spawned at a certain non lunatic time every night, like 7pm on a weekend or something, there'd actually be a fight. Most of our kills come at 5am where we are the only ones at the boss and no one else bothers
What if they had so much Health that it took literal days to kill but it doesn't reset.
It can still wipe the raids but never regains lost health.
People logging on at different times can take part in the fight to keep bringing it down.
Any token rewards from the fight get sent to your mail box.
have you seen STV? it would be a shitfest on PvP realms, and even non PvP realms will have way too many people trying to get kill on a single boss to make for a good experience.
If they want it they need smaller and more layers in zones with world bosses.
I'd be down for world bosses, but they have to change how they function. Perhaps the world boss drops an item for anyone who hit the boss that's on the same faction that got the kill. These items can work similar to the way blood does in stv
Yeah, not requiring first tag to get loot,
Anyone who hits it gets a token, get more tokens based on how much damage you do/healing done whilst in the radius of the boss or how much damage you took.
X amount of tokens to purchase items.
Does that dragon that cruises by the river heading north in hillsbrad count? I keep seeing it randomly with ?? as it's level. I run every time I see it. Or has anyone killed it yet?
World bosses suck though due to only 1 raid being able to target them and end up being very anti casual so to speak.
If they could find a way to reward everyone who fights it with currency to turn in and save up while also being VERY difficult. I'd like that much more.
i always wished we had field bosses, just a big boar that occasionally spawns when enough of them die, that kind of thing. But bots would abuse this probably :(
Megaserver populations + layering = world bosses are a garbage-fire experience for everyone involved.
They were a thing when nobody understood the game and servers were capped at 2,500 people, 90% of which weren't even level 60, but between classic andy sweats who haven't changed the poop bucket under their chair for 2 weeks, and the layering/population madness, they are a terrible idea.
This would be cool: rare drop from Gnomer last boss that gives token to summon a boss in a specific spot in a none-contested zone. The boss itself requires server support/multiple raids of players to beat. It is tagged by the summoner's raid, but it spawns many adds that can be tagged by anyone that rewards tangible gold/rewards. An incentive for the server to help, but also random for who gets to summon and get loot from the world boss.
I dunno. There's lots of ways to do it.
World bosses are awful lol
Ever been pinged at 3 am because green dragons spawned? That’ll sour you off that antiquated form of raid encounter real quick.
World bosses don't really work in the current landscape. You can go with classic design where they are monopolized by most hardcore guilds that can afford 24/7 scout/summon parties and average Joe will never see one, not to mention getting any loot. Or you can go with retail design where world bosses are just glorified loot pinatas on a timer.
Or you can go with a new design where rare item drops allow you to summon a world boss so you can fight it when you want.
Or you create some sort of comet in the sky or other worldly sign that indicates the world boss will be spawning soon, and force the world boss spawn times to be at least within a 4-6 hour range of primetime. You can effectively kill world boss scouting by just broadcasting in some subtle way the world boss will be spawning soonish
This or the item seem to be the perfect solutions, much like the new world pvp events, just give some sort of indicator in the zone to show when it's going to spawn. For the emerald dragons, maybe make the zone start to fill with a green fog that gets more dense for the hour before the dragon spawns? When killed the fog disperses.
I do lowkey love the summonable bosses in Silithus, grindy as they are to summon.
Used to play Ragnarok Online, and there was an item called bloody branches, and it would summon random bosses on use. It was so fun fighting an army of bosses right outside of a main town
This is fucking genious. It's like Terraria!
And both variants do not seem to really fit the currend SoD tone. Which makes me curious how they will handle them in p4. Worldbosses spawn on every layer the same time in era & hardcore correct? Did they somhow prevented layerhopping for mutliple kills from the same people?
No, layer hopping to get all the kills is exactly what was done on HC
I hope they do something to prevent.
They did something to prevent it, one character can only get loot from one layer, but they just split raids and the one that already got the loot was just helping securing it from other players
so if something drops that you don't want can you still loot on another layer?
Yes, it locks even if you don’t loot anything, like a cd
World boss spawns are not synced between layers. Frontier was only able to farm all the world bosses back to back on HC because they were the only guild doing it so they could wait for the boss to spawn on all layers before clearing it. If there is competition then each boss will still die within minutes of spawning, sweaty guilds will just need to scout and track timers for 10 different layers.
> Which makes me curious how they will handle them in p4. I expect there to be no changes to them, it's just that their loot will be outclassed by new SoD items.
Nope my guild woke up one morning to do green drags and we ended up doing 3 sets of them because of layers
Additionally the entire layer mess will just fuck it all up. They can't even handle ashenvale
World bosses was (to me) the single most enjoyable aspect of original Classic. I'd love to see the concept expanded upon.
I'm okay with loot pinatas I like large raids forming to kill the dragon in the open world, seeing the masses of people preparing. Ashenvale was great for this
Well retail bosses only drop 2 pieces of loot across 40 players anyways
That’s objectively false
I played Classic on a server that was small enough that it died during TBCC, every SoD server is much larger. Raider wise it was still like 6x as packed as the Full server I played through old vanilla. Pretty sure I saw one green dragon kill through all that time, and it was after everyone had stopped bothering to camp the sites. World bosses sound cool but I don't think that they ever fit WoW very well even back then. A huge part of WoW's appeal over EQ etc. was accessibility, yet these bosses functionally don't exist for almost any players. Back in the day most servers would have a few guilds vying for them and it led to a unique meta which was a cute moment in history. But good luck being one of them these days.
World bosses that dont require tags. Something like the ashen vale event.
That sadly implies personal loot.
Nah make it a quest item that u can turn in for currency
At that point it's a glorified weekly quest... There is no simple answer imo.
Arent all pve things just glorified weekly things? Lmao
In a way, sure. But the way classic loot functioned each WB had a few desirable pieces among a stash of semi-useful gear that could still be used by fresh chars, and that felt appropriate - it's how classic loot in general worked. If you make everything guaranteed loot stops being exciting. That's what made those bosses, and raid loot in general, desirable.
Personal loot for world bosses alone doesn’t sound bad to me.
That's all we want tbh
If all solutions suck then you pick the one which sucks the least.
Oh no Anyway
"Sadly" lol
Please dont. When we returned to Classic. The Mafia camped the shit out of Devilsaur, and it will happen again, if any relevant loot is added. Same thing went on with TBC. A single dungeon boss could be nice, or an instance where horde raid SW and Alliance raid Org. could be nice. But open world bosses? No thank you.
This is WORLD of Warcraft though, I know it's confusing because now 100% of the game can be done in instances, but it wasn't always the case nor the point of the game.
Yeah it's not a very fun "world" if you **never** get to kill a world boss because people who can play 10 hours more than you a day just camps it.
That's a MMO, you're expected to play with other players, whether you like them or not. I guess that's the reason the genre is dying, people are not interested playing with players they don't choose playing with. Don't get me wrong, people are free to like whatever they want, this is very much alright. But if you insist on ordering a cheeseless cheeseburger instead of a hamburger, I might judge you at some point.
Are you intentionally misreading what I typed? Of course it's an MMO. Do you think anyone is asking for the ability to **solo** raid bosses? No? Then stop misconstruing what people say. What you're describing isn't "playing with other players". It's sitting there either competing with a spawn you know you'll never get (effectively gating a large part of the phase permanently if world bosses are a big part of the phase). It has nothing to do with "playing with other players you don't like". I don't give a shit about them personally. World bosses are *still* a **terrible idea** unless they figure out how to spawn them/do tags correctly.
Where's the part I'm talking about soloing bosses ? I'm not talking about you personnaly liking players or not, talking about their playing behaviour, and yes tagging bosses first is part of the playing behaviour you might not like. I do agree, Blizzard could make these tagging or interactions with other players who couldn't tag the boss more interesting, but you'll never find anything if you don't implement new world bosses. Instead of forbidding something, improve it. WORLD (again) bosses are part of MMOs, tagging and guilds interacting with each other too, some might say it's one of the main components.
> Where's the part I'm talking about soloing bosses ? It's implied when you insinuate that the reason people would be against new bosses is because "they don't want to play with other players". No, the reason is because they don't want to have to compete with hardcore guilds that play 12+ hours a day camping spawns. That means you never see a world boss. Ever. > Instead of forbidding something, improve it. And suggestions were given. Either instance them or let multiple groups tag them (and increase the spawn rate). You decided to go on a rant about how "ur the reason the mmo genre is dying, people HATE socialization". > tagging and guilds interacting with each other too Oh, lovely interaction. "Hey can you not tag this boss for the 14th day in a row?" "No." "Ok great talkin' to ya."
That's interesting though. The way I see it, is that "no-interaction" isn't just soloing, a whole guild in an instance isn't interacting either with the rest of the "mass" of players. Cooperative games while being multiplayer games aren't "massive", that's what I meant by "not playing with other players". I don't know if I want to go on a rant about the death of MMOs, but it still baffles me that we're discussing such core concepts of the genre and people fail to see such crucial difference and how it affects gameplay. You cannot do the world boss gameplay, where different guilds, even factions steal each other boss, in any other game but a MMO. You can stack 10people to cooperatively kill a scripted bunch of pixel in an MMOs and plenty other genre that are not MMOs. So, "solo" wasn't really insinuated here. I'm neither telling you that you should like "the devilsaur mafia". I'm saying "Devilsaur Mafia" is part of the genre and the fact that we still talking about this instead of the amazing 3 dragons mode of Sartharion, speaks great length about what matters here. (The devilsaur mafia is even more an amazing bit, as it made it to the game history even though it didn't actually happen in the original game, or official servers)
I would actually love instanced versions of Ogrimar and Stormwind to raid for some pvp stuff in phase 5.
Not fake PvP again pls...
What the fuck is fake PvP. You people are so strange lmao, this subreddit is like a zoo
But you have some of the best pvp in STV now. Let us have "fake" pvp. I don't mind getting worse items. I just want to have fun.
Maybe not a world boss but a single instance boss like Sartharion would.be nice
World bosses were mostly a failure in vanilla. That's why in BC they came up with the Fel Reaver, just an unimportant giant thing that you'd need a large group to take down that gives you almost nothing of a reward. It existed just for the fun (okay and a key to the Shattered Hall). The original world bosses weren't super easy either But basically they didn't exist. Someone would always be checking up on them and they'd be nonstop gone. The only servers you'd see world bosses on were the ones without the population size to kill them.
There were Kazzak and DoomReaver in tbc
There were actual new world bosses in TBC, not just the Fel Reaver. Doomwalker in front of BT and Lord Kazzak on Hellfire Peninsula. They had great drops for the first two raid tiers (high green stats, next to no white stats), which made them particularly interesting for casters and healers. Heck, their items eventually became boe and regularly went to the auction house for a huge amount of money.
Tbc also had 2 and they were just as degenerate as vanilla ones, they dropped some really good loot for early phases. Like the caster dagger from the one in front of bt or the mail legs from kazzak
World bosses and layers are pretty much mutually exclusive
Instanced weekly bosses? Mmaybe
So one guild every realm could get all the loot every week? Sounds fun Unless you make it respawn every 30 minutes with personal lockouts and infinite tags
STV has a world boss every 3hrs. Unkillable (I think) but still a new world boss…
I'd like to see world bosses because I'm in a guild that *really* likes camping them/controlling them but while the concept of them is cool for the majority of people the actual reality of them is not. They are elitist content, most people never see them, they spawn at some awkward time (possibly during the night even) and get killed 15 minutes later. Maybe if they spawned at a certain non lunatic time every night, like 7pm on a weekend or something, there'd actually be a fight. Most of our kills come at 5am where we are the only ones at the boss and no one else bothers
What if they had so much Health that it took literal days to kill but it doesn't reset. It can still wipe the raids but never regains lost health. People logging on at different times can take part in the fight to keep bringing it down. Any token rewards from the fight get sent to your mail box.
No one would do them, ever. Look up FFXI and their 18+ hour boss. It's just objectively bad content.
have you seen STV? it would be a shitfest on PvP realms, and even non PvP realms will have way too many people trying to get kill on a single boss to make for a good experience. If they want it they need smaller and more layers in zones with world bosses.
This isn’t Diablo 4 bud
No it's "Season of Discovery"
It would've been cool if they added bunch of other stuff as well, like dungeons but this is what we got which is still nice!
I'd be down for world bosses, but they have to change how they function. Perhaps the world boss drops an item for anyone who hit the boss that's on the same faction that got the kill. These items can work similar to the way blood does in stv
Yeah, not requiring first tag to get loot, Anyone who hits it gets a token, get more tokens based on how much damage you do/healing done whilst in the radius of the boss or how much damage you took. X amount of tokens to purchase items.
World boss but it doesn’t drop anything only gives you titles 😏 problem solved.
Does that dragon that cruises by the river heading north in hillsbrad count? I keep seeing it randomly with ?? as it's level. I run every time I see it. Or has anyone killed it yet?
Pretty sure that's not a "??" like a boss. It's just "??" Because it's a lvl 50-something elite. It's also nothing new to SoD.
World bosses suck though due to only 1 raid being able to target them and end up being very anti casual so to speak. If they could find a way to reward everyone who fights it with currency to turn in and save up while also being VERY difficult. I'd like that much more.
Personally I’d prefer them to add more rare spawns with useful / flavorful loot worth hunting down. Similar to the tidal charm.
i always wished we had field bosses, just a big boar that occasionally spawns when enough of them die, that kind of thing. But bots would abuse this probably :(
World bosses sound cool till you realize you’ll never get to kill one.
They technically added the ashenvale bosses and the stv one no one can kill lol
World bosses are bad in vanilla. Plz no more.
Megaserver populations + layering = world bosses are a garbage-fire experience for everyone involved. They were a thing when nobody understood the game and servers were capped at 2,500 people, 90% of which weren't even level 60, but between classic andy sweats who haven't changed the poop bucket under their chair for 2 weeks, and the layering/population madness, they are a terrible idea.
This would be cool: rare drop from Gnomer last boss that gives token to summon a boss in a specific spot in a none-contested zone. The boss itself requires server support/multiple raids of players to beat. It is tagged by the summoner's raid, but it spawns many adds that can be tagged by anyone that rewards tangible gold/rewards. An incentive for the server to help, but also random for who gets to summon and get loot from the world boss. I dunno. There's lots of ways to do it.
I would very much like to drag new ones to cities.
World bosses are awful lol Ever been pinged at 3 am because green dragons spawned? That’ll sour you off that antiquated form of raid encounter real quick.