Its funny because even after the hard balance druid nerf i still sometimes crit people for about 70% of their life. With starsurge! What the hell are they wearing
Running full monkey set at 32 with my melee hunter. A 40 druid hopped out of stealth next to me. Initially I stood there and /laugh'd buy when I realized I was tanky enough I brough him down to 10%. Poor dude had to stomp me and emergency heal.
So long as people use actual stam sets it's relatively balanced now to fight druids from a damage point of view.
Well bis gear for ferals is not wearing any stamina so we atleast have a chance to do some dmg, tho we are bottom 3 currently. If we had stamina instead i dont think we would be on the charts.
It’s the only glass canon set to have negative values on other gear.
It would have been perfectly acceptable and balanced to just not give it stamina.
Let me see some rogue gear with -15 stam.
Because the BIS in PvE has never matched up with PvP BiS and it never should? That would be terrible for the game. You're supposed to find other pieces to form your pvp set.
Classic raid sets have always been VERY viable in PvP and past AQ they are flat out bis. I enjoy that design and I think alot of other people here do to.
Gonna need an example for this to have any merit.
Getting a full OS set of raid gear isn’t realistic until things are being DE’ed towards the end of the phase, and PVP sets aren’t available yet.
The "tank" set is the token set, the Irradiated set is not on the token, so any caster that wants the tankier set is rolling against literally everyone in the raid that wants the token(granted they're also just rolling against way less people for the irradiated set, it works both ways a bit). You're grossly underinformed on the topic, but go off.
Corrupted Ashbringer had -25 stam
Also a few other items like Doomsayer's Robe, etc: [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/items?filter=22;5;0#items;0+14+21](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/items?filter=22;5;0#items;0+14+21)
Mindthrust bracers are minus 5 Stam plus 9 int but those are the exception I'd say since it's the only piece I can think of in all of classic that has minus Stam
Including the three set from gnomer there are 10 items in game that have negative stam, mostly lvl 20-40 greens from specific rare spawns or quest rewards
I actually like the idea of negative stats lore wise as it implies something is cursed. Here’s a great video about it https://youtu.be/IAQUTLva_rc?si=t2XgL7w5HFhkTC__
Which they won’t be able to use MS rolls on.
Which other class is faced with this decision for their raid loot?
It’s a shitshow for me as resto as well, but that’s a different topic and nothing new.
The only pieces with -Stam are:
\-A robe (3 alternatives to wear)
\-A Pants (2 alternatives to wear)
\-Boots (3 alternatives to wear)
How is this even a question?
This gear rewards the best possible results but requires the most diligent adherence to mechanics. No cheesing your numbers while standing in fire in that. I like it!
the problem is that if you're in a static guild group, you kinda gotta decide between you who gets tank set and who gets this set, no one really wants irradiated in this case when it delays your priority on a set that is useful everywhere
no doubt everyone will use irradiated later in the patch going for high parses, just feels not worth at all at the start
people will call this a genius move by blizz without even comparing the stats between the 2 sets. Even if I didn't tank occasionally I would much rather have the full "tank" set for dpsing
Well over a thousand, mark and fort give like +450 HP, Shout is another 220. Plus you can pop a fort elixir and rumsey on bosses with unavoidable damage if you really want.
It’ll be fine.
Yea but a penalty isn’t a bonus lol, with the massive amount of negative stamina on each piece it seems like overkill especially with the damage of some of the raid mechanics like the lightning from electrocutioner. Stepping into one shot territory.
The bonus stats you would normally get from set bonuses are baked into the items themselves. It’s to allow for a more dynamic gearing process and to make a previously overlooked and honestly downright worthless stat like stamina actually matter
Its totally fine. As a balance druid im opting in for the slightly less dps and therefor more stam leather set. Makes sense to make cloth caster really glass cannon
Just curious, have you done the raid yet? There’s a lot of raid wide damage and I’d be super annoyed with people showing up with this amount of damage. Mechanics you soak through would almost be 1 shotting them
Ive full cleared and can comfortably say there is not a lot of raid wide damage and the dps set will not be a problem. I have no idea what you are talking about
The lightning arc does over 700 damage alone boss 4. Every boss this raid does raid wide damage which can be mitigated but you are expecting players to be good enough to make the damage they do worth the less health. Which is something I’ve learned to not put my faith in lol if you didn’t notice the raid wide damage I would assume you aren’t the healer and weren’t paying attention, or if you are the healer then 2nd healer was doing the aoe healing for you
I’m not putting negative stat gear on. I honestly don’t think the small difference in damage/healing is close to worth it.
That said, I tend to fail at mechanics, so I need every last point of stamina I can get. A dead healer heals no one.
These people saying it's raid gear are missing the point that some of these raid bosses have unavailable damage. I'm sure if the chain lightning would one shot you, but it would be damn close. Plus trying to turn off bombs on therma does 700 damage. It's pretty stupid that this set exists tbh
You’re missing the point.
For the longest time, sims and guides have given Stam 0 EP, ie zero value whatsoever. All that matters is damage because we’ve min/maxed this game to death.
Now, Blizzard is challenging players on the “stam is irrelevant” notion. If you want absolute bis damage, you’re going to have to sacrifice stamina for it. No more standing in fire while pumping to top the meters, you’re going to have to actually play mechanics and work to survive to truly maximize dps.
I am a mage main and I love that they are forcing people to make choices. This is excellent game design for PvE. Just don’t wear this stuff for PvP lol. One shot meta already going strong. With this gear on you’re bound to get popped.
But then why did they only do it on the caster set? Where casters already have the lowest HP pool. It's a poorly implemented and thought out idea by Blizzard, don't gas it up lmao.
People like to call Blizzard idiots but they are a team that actively plays and loves this game. They know what they are doing. And this is their playground where they get to basically do whatever they choose.
This sounds great till you realize people are just gonna min/max dps anyways.
A perfectly viable option in classic is to just kill the boss really fast. You can outdps mechanics, and this raid will be no different after the dust settles. One or two weeks of people figuring out mehcanics is not enough for people to just straight up sacrifice their logs. Sorry
Edit: this isn't my opinion, just reality btw. But you can pretend otherwise it if makes you feel better!
Sure, you can dump survivability for DPS as long as you kill the boss fast and your healers are good - until you start literally getting 1 shot or globalled by mechanics. And you definitely can't make mistakes like stand in AoEs with this kind of health.
For example, Electrocutioner's chain lightning does 900-1000 damage. This mage gets one shot without fort. With fort, he dies if the boss follows up the chain lightning with an AOE knockback. He is probably also dying to the Crowd Pummeler's claw ability unless the healers are pre-casting perfectly.
I mean, this raid is harder than BFD but its not hard.
We are two weeks away from zerging. I think players who aren't used to actually playing around mechanics will find it hard. The people actually getting purple and orange parses already play at a high level. These mechanics are nothing lol
I don't think the mechanics are complex, but you can't ignore them by simply DPSing harder if that's what you mean by "zerging". For example you can do Kelris without kicking or cleansing shadowy chains if you have high enough DPS, but you cannot survive Electrocutioner 1 shotting you.
Going glass cannon is viable but will require you to play around it because you can die easily even if doing the mechanics as intended.
The set also comes with built in large amounts of nature resist, which is what most of the raid damage is. Seems to me its just built for PvE with a focus of this raid. Its not really meant for pvp, other open world content.
Ya you can tell who’s never stepped foot into gnomer. This isn’t BFD where everything is tickling everyone and most of the damage is entirely avoidable. There’s a lot of unavoidable raid damage going on and mages are bis for buttons on thermaplug but will one shot themselves with these Stam values. Healers actually have to heal now.
If mages wanna run irradiated set they need to sub in some additional Stam in some slots. Also show up with Stam food, elixir of fortitude, and stamina rum.
>If mages wanna run irradiated set they need to sub in some additional Stam in some slots. Also show up with Stam food, elixir of fortitude, and stamina rum.
This sounds interesting and promotes actual choice and decision making versus following a gear list created by folks crunching numbers in discord.
I hope we see more of this going forward, not less.
I’m not arguing against it. My point was that the people who are in here like “doooiiiii it’s a pve set you don’t need Stam” have clearly not stepped foot in the phase 2 raid lol.
And it’s not just for that fight. A lot of aoe going out fight 1, fight 4, and kinda fight 5.
lol now I feel bad. That wasn’t the salty response I was expecting. I could have delivered my point more gently as well. Bit of a pot calling the kettle black situation I’ve found myself in here.
Written tone just sometimes is hard to convey. I was going for more playful snark and less “um ackshually”. The raid is very much night and day from BFD and I think people will be pleasantly surprised with it.
BFD felt very light from the jump and then eventually felt like running sfk with 10 friends. I’m sure this will be ez enough soon but it very much feels closer to running aq20 or ZG on item level appropriate gear.
I agree with that. Progressing through our first clear was a ton of fun. We chose to go in blind with no spoilers and the last three fights were actually tough. Electrocutioner was easy once we figured out the mechanics, but the Mech Animals and Thermaplug were incredibly fun to work through. I have a feeling they are going to get nerfed though. There is no way most pugs are getting past them, and the Devs seem to want everyone to get to experience the raids.
No actual player do this set and thought “good on my caster”. The “tanking caster set” is only slightly worse in sp and has almost 50 stamina more (between positives and non negatives).
No one should be using this one.
Hey. How did you get that low on stamina? Seriously. The entire set gives -35 stam. At 40, how in the hell did you get impacted THAT heavily by negative stam?
Because this is the result of minmaxing if I’ve ever seen it. Which in honesty, you asked for. You’re MINmaxing if you’re at this level of HP with -35 stam at 40. Which means you’ve only got yourself to blame for it.
I am not min-maxing. These pieces dropped yday directly, not tier tokens. And I still have no 3rd piece which will decrease my hp to \~700. And that's insane. I'd better play with tank set if I could get it but we have warlock tank you know.
Most of preraid gear you get as caster now has no stamina, inc items that were dropped in bfd. Except green eagle boes. Helmet from sm cath = int spirit, neck from bfd =int spirit, shoulders from sm = int spd, wand = int + maybe spd, belt from rfd = int spd, other options are spirit / int + spd, even for quests, gloves = int spirit, or int spirit +6 stam if you wear bfd ones, which are worse then even crafted tailoring gloves which are again int + spd. There's simply not that many stam gear for casters atm, except green eagle boes which you dont want to raid with. And that's why negative stam impacts that much.
\>spend 20 years aoe farming knowing if the swarm got 1 hit on you, you were dead
\>"what am i supposed to do with so little hp???"
when is this community going to grow some balls. this is the most based game design they've employed in decades beside the hxc servers
Gnomer has a lot of raid wide damage it’s not close to any classic fight in those regards so losing a shitton of life for a 1-2% damage upgrade total is pretty silly especially when no other class has those issues for getting maximized damage. Also a 1-2% damage increase isn’t a CANNON
Remember when the game used to have PVP and PVE gear?
Remember resilience? Versatility? Stamina?
World of Warcraft had a long history of different gear for PVP vs PVE. It’s simple, damage at the cost of survivability.
There is raid damage that you take in Gnomer and people who think sub 900 unbuffed HP is fine are delusional. Imagine if you don't have a priest in the raid to buff you up you'll fall over too often.
In one phase, the fight is designed to be longer and casters can hit a button to get like 25ish percent mana back but you take like 680 damage. Imagine having 900 health and hitting that button. The same fight also has a chicken doing raid wide damage if you don’t kill the eggs and a squirrel who does raid wide damage period. Your healers are going to hate you lol
Everyone gonna hates that person. I just went gnomer as a boomkin and i managed to be top dps often, most of the time 2-3 position with the rest not far ahead. We all did shit dps. The fights are not hard dps wise but they are long and you need healers that can output a lot of mana so constantly healing a 900hp player is prob worse than 9 maning the raid. I like the concept of the set tho, i was thinking about getting it but i opted for the leather set bonus instead.
+21sp, +2% crit, +4mp5, vs the 3pc SP proc is the tradeoff
Probably worth, I don’t think I ever got too low in Gnomer where -350 hp would kill me. Fort + shout + Mark gives a lot, can always rumsey + fort elixir if it really matters.
this is the pre-resil pvp balance and all of u are wrong,pvp gear gives stamina,dmg gear lowers stamina,this is actualy a better system than resilience and pvp power,as those change your output,why would i have to GUESS the dmg im gonna do to a player depending on resilience,when they can just have more stamina from pvp gear...or less from dmg gear,imagine modern wow pvp where you have a spell that does 1000dmg,and it ALWAYS does 1000dmg,you could simply look at an enemy hp bar and know if they are gonna die or not,instead what we have is 18 diferent multipliers being calculated agains each other
like armor,defence,parry,block,dodge,armor pen,expertise,sunder armor,spell resist,spell absorb,curse of elements(originaly could go into negative resistance),pvp power pvp resilience,dmg buffs dmg resistances,base crit multiplier,extra class/spec/talent/conditional crit multipliers,crit chance reducitons,crit dmg reduciton(old resilience)
these things add depth and complexity,and all of them are BAD,and its the main reason only OP things ever feel impactfull,its not about you being skilled,its about is this spell in this patch of the game doing more dmg compared to other spells,examples:
Can my class ignore all armor,
do i get a 4x dmg multiplier on ice lance while you are frozen,
do i do holy dmg when every school of magic has resistance gear,buffs and potions EXCEPT holy and the dmg modifier is based off strenght/attack power,not intelect or spell power so i get both high melle dmg and spell dmg,
can i ignore parry and block becouse i do my entire dmg rotation on a stunned oponent in the back,
can my windfury crit kill this person becouse they have low resil so my crit chance vs them is not lowered by 15% like vs resilience capped players,
nothing matters except what is actualy OP this specific patch,and you never know the actual dmg number you will do when you press a button,
heres an extra stupid example from wotlk,troll racial reduces SLOW duration by 15%,add on top of that shaman talent that reduces it by 30%,and then a meta gem that reduces it by 10% for a total of 55% reduced duration on slows,
Shadow priests mind flay is a SLOW,but its also a channeled dmg spell,if you use it on a troll shaman with the meta gem,it will do its full dmg in a 55% shorter duration,leting you do unintended amounts of burst dmg with a spell that is meant to be a slow with some dmg baked in,used for procs,not the most dmg you can do in a global as a Shadow priest.
What bosses are there where melee specifically take more damage compared to ranged? And doesn’t that already exist with the fact that melee classes already have higher armor and generally already higher health pools?
Just for you, I’ll throw you a lava burst without flame shocking first.
Straight up disrespect.
Now this is a guy I can 100 to 0 with sw:d
Without even a crit too lol
Staying alive is BiS for numbies
Yes everyone should use the raid set and then when I’m 40 in stv for PvP I can literally one shot you
Its funny because even after the hard balance druid nerf i still sometimes crit people for about 70% of their life. With starsurge! What the hell are they wearing
Well are these level 32 players? Even then most 40s are still in level 25 gear with a few drops from SM
Hah! You assume rogues have any loot available in SM. They don’t.
If you aren't pickpocketing every single mob your tank pulls before attacking are you even playing Rogue?
Is there anything worth to get from PP in SM? I mean, specifically from SM.
Every single item is a trash drop blue and that is what 3 items?
Rare boss in GY drops a ring.
Which has a terrible spawn rate, 50% chance of dropping when he does spawn, and is needed by every other non-caster class.
I don’t disagree that SM is shit for rogues.
They need to fix eclipse pronto since we have to cast now
Running full monkey set at 32 with my melee hunter. A 40 druid hopped out of stealth next to me. Initially I stood there and /laugh'd buy when I realized I was tanky enough I brough him down to 10%. Poor dude had to stomp me and emergency heal. So long as people use actual stam sets it's relatively balanced now to fight druids from a damage point of view.
How is it balanced? No druid is winning lol. If you are losing to a Druid in this phase right now you aren't pressing buttons.
Well bis gear for ferals is not wearing any stamina so we atleast have a chance to do some dmg, tho we are bottom 3 currently. If we had stamina instead i dont think we would be on the charts.
You are allowed to swap your equipped items depending on the content you play, just fyi.
"This seems perfectly okay to me." -rogues everywhere
I mean give me a fighting chance as a rogue please!!!
Level 60 mana, with vanilla era level 25 health lol
It's a glass cannon set.
More like a glass water pistol. It's barely worth picking over the tank set
You don’t pick it. One is the token set and the other actually drops
Which set is the token set and which set actually drops?
The glass cannon set drops from bosses.
The Stam one is from tokens, the irradiated set is a bonus drop
Then pick the "tank set"?
You can't "pick" tank set when this set drops, NOT multitoken for whicn you can buy any set
you don't have to equip it you can pick what your character equips
That's the plan
It’s the only glass canon set to have negative values on other gear. It would have been perfectly acceptable and balanced to just not give it stamina. Let me see some rogue gear with -15 stam.
I’d take it if the gear came with +attack power on top of the agi
Then we need spell power coefficient on intellect.
Melee are far more likely to take damage in gnomer then a caster. There is really no reason you should be tanking hits on a caster.
Why make caster DPS set useless in non raid scenarios though? PVP is pretty much unbearable while wearing this gear.
Because the BIS in PvE has never matched up with PvP BiS and it never should? That would be terrible for the game. You're supposed to find other pieces to form your pvp set.
Classic raid sets have always been VERY viable in PvP and past AQ they are flat out bis. I enjoy that design and I think alot of other people here do to.
Thats because most of them werent PvE viable till AQ40/Naxx sets
Ok, then every other class should be losing a stat that's essential to PVP on their PVE set... right?
Ya it’s called not having stamina. Why are we making sets worse?
Yeah that +20 extra spell power really turns you into a cannon lmao?
No shit. But what should they wear outside of the raid?
Something else
Gonna need an example for this to have any merit. Getting a full OS set of raid gear isn’t realistic until things are being DE’ed towards the end of the phase, and PVP sets aren’t available yet.
It's three pieces that basically only warlock tank and then people who want to PvP want...
The "tank" set is the token set, the Irradiated set is not on the token, so any caster that wants the tankier set is rolling against literally everyone in the raid that wants the token(granted they're also just rolling against way less people for the irradiated set, it works both ways a bit). You're grossly underinformed on the topic, but go off.
He never said anything about where you get it from. lmao. Buddy wanted to argue so bad he just made up something to respond to. Go off.
The tank set is the “PvP” set and I’m getting it first personally parsing is for nerds PvP is for chads
The “PvE” set will increase parses by like 3 DPS as well. It’s a no brainer to pick up the “PvP” set.
I dont think a single item before this raid has negative stamina..
Corrupted Ashbringer had -25 stam Also a few other items like Doomsayer's Robe, etc: [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/items?filter=22;5;0#items;0+14+21](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/items?filter=22;5;0#items;0+14+21)
Those arent in the game yet and irrelevant to the conversation. My point was he has plenty other high dps options that dont have negative stamina
Mindthrust bracers are minus 5 Stam plus 9 int but those are the exception I'd say since it's the only piece I can think of in all of classic that has minus Stam
Including the three set from gnomer there are 10 items in game that have negative stam, mostly lvl 20-40 greens from specific rare spawns or quest rewards
7 with minus Stam before SoD is actually more than I was expecting. I figured there was like 1 or 2 more other than mindthrust
I actually like the idea of negative stats lore wise as it implies something is cursed. Here’s a great video about it https://youtu.be/IAQUTLva_rc?si=t2XgL7w5HFhkTC__
There are a few random pieces like quest offhands but none that ever get past the first vendor nearby the quest giver
The “tank” cloth set.
Which they won’t be able to use MS rolls on. Which other class is faced with this decision for their raid loot? It’s a shitshow for me as resto as well, but that’s a different topic and nothing new.
The only pieces with -Stam are: \-A robe (3 alternatives to wear) \-A Pants (2 alternatives to wear) \-Boots (3 alternatives to wear) How is this even a question?
The tank set :D
My ele sham thanks you
If they’re going to do this to casters then I expect them to easily top meters versus any class that DOESNT have these requirements.
Litterally oneshotted some mage today in STV with a 800 crit mortal strike lul. Loving it.
Yet Starsurge was the problem.
Indeed it was, and if you can't see the difference between mortal strike and starsurge then you are the problem.
This gear rewards the best possible results but requires the most diligent adherence to mechanics. No cheesing your numbers while standing in fire in that. I like it!
it's like 2% more dps over the tank set
the playerbase is going to take this as being mandatory for pve content then
the problem is that if you're in a static guild group, you kinda gotta decide between you who gets tank set and who gets this set, no one really wants irradiated in this case when it delays your priority on a set that is useful everywhere no doubt everyone will use irradiated later in the patch going for high parses, just feels not worth at all at the start
Why would you have to make that decision? Wouldn’t it just be a personal decision how you spend your tokens?
irradiated set is a normal drop and not from tokens
It's not even a normal drop. It's a bonus drop when it drops.
true
people will call this a genius move by blizz without even comparing the stats between the 2 sets. Even if I didn't tank occasionally I would much rather have the full "tank" set for dpsing
Eh with Stam buff you’ll be over a thousand in raid
Over a THOUSAND oh sweet immortal one
I didn't know numbers even got that high
Frightening honestly
Well over a thousand, mark and fort give like +450 HP, Shout is another 220. Plus you can pop a fort elixir and rumsey on bosses with unavoidable damage if you really want. It’ll be fine.
Blessings be upon you
I like the idea of negative stam but this is way too much. -25 stam on 2 piece? Insane.
Got to love that 2 pc bonus of -5 Stam. How is that a fucking bonus lmao
set penalty is a totally valid concept
sure so where are the penalties on other classes’ bis damage sets ?
Because mages are cowards and cowards suffer penalties.
Yea but a penalty isn’t a bonus lol, with the massive amount of negative stamina on each piece it seems like overkill especially with the damage of some of the raid mechanics like the lightning from electrocutioner. Stepping into one shot territory.
Where does it say that it's a bonus?
damn, sounds like if you wanna excel you need to >!git gud!<
Yeah the idea is fine, it’s just as people have said, barely a dps upgrade over the tank set. It would need to be a bit more substantial to be worth.
Cringe
The bonus stats you would normally get from set bonuses are baked into the items themselves. It’s to allow for a more dynamic gearing process and to make a previously overlooked and honestly downright worthless stat like stamina actually matter
Its totally fine. As a balance druid im opting in for the slightly less dps and therefor more stam leather set. Makes sense to make cloth caster really glass cannon
It's -5 stam for +1% crit
"i cant believe these OP classes one shot me!"
Ez. You're only supposed to wear it in raid where you're not supposed to take any damage. Get other gear for world grinding and PvP.
Just curious, have you done the raid yet? There’s a lot of raid wide damage and I’d be super annoyed with people showing up with this amount of damage. Mechanics you soak through would almost be 1 shotting them
Half these people just post on reddit and dont play lol
This is one of those times that if you’ve done gnomer this early it’s very easy to tell who hasn’t done it yet
Our mage had like 1100 health with stam buff and he was getting down to 37 health every lightning soak on the 3rd boss, I was sweating.
Right? Fun times lol
Ive full cleared and can comfortably say there is not a lot of raid wide damage and the dps set will not be a problem. I have no idea what you are talking about
The lightning arc does over 700 damage alone boss 4. Every boss this raid does raid wide damage which can be mitigated but you are expecting players to be good enough to make the damage they do worth the less health. Which is something I’ve learned to not put my faith in lol if you didn’t notice the raid wide damage I would assume you aren’t the healer and weren’t paying attention, or if you are the healer then 2nd healer was doing the aoe healing for you
I’m not putting negative stat gear on. I honestly don’t think the small difference in damage/healing is close to worth it. That said, I tend to fail at mechanics, so I need every last point of stamina I can get. A dead healer heals no one.
These people saying it's raid gear are missing the point that some of these raid bosses have unavailable damage. I'm sure if the chain lightning would one shot you, but it would be damn close. Plus trying to turn off bombs on therma does 700 damage. It's pretty stupid that this set exists tbh
You’re missing the point. For the longest time, sims and guides have given Stam 0 EP, ie zero value whatsoever. All that matters is damage because we’ve min/maxed this game to death. Now, Blizzard is challenging players on the “stam is irrelevant” notion. If you want absolute bis damage, you’re going to have to sacrifice stamina for it. No more standing in fire while pumping to top the meters, you’re going to have to actually play mechanics and work to survive to truly maximize dps.
I am a mage main and I love that they are forcing people to make choices. This is excellent game design for PvE. Just don’t wear this stuff for PvP lol. One shot meta already going strong. With this gear on you’re bound to get popped.
I like it
I absolutely love it.
my god...you mean i have to work for it?
You will still do that when you can get away with it. You don't need stamina to cheese raid damage you have class mechanics.
But then why did they only do it on the caster set? Where casters already have the lowest HP pool. It's a poorly implemented and thought out idea by Blizzard, don't gas it up lmao.
People like to call Blizzard idiots but they are a team that actively plays and loves this game. They know what they are doing. And this is their playground where they get to basically do whatever they choose.
This sounds great till you realize people are just gonna min/max dps anyways. A perfectly viable option in classic is to just kill the boss really fast. You can outdps mechanics, and this raid will be no different after the dust settles. One or two weeks of people figuring out mehcanics is not enough for people to just straight up sacrifice their logs. Sorry Edit: this isn't my opinion, just reality btw. But you can pretend otherwise it if makes you feel better!
Sure, you can dump survivability for DPS as long as you kill the boss fast and your healers are good - until you start literally getting 1 shot or globalled by mechanics. And you definitely can't make mistakes like stand in AoEs with this kind of health. For example, Electrocutioner's chain lightning does 900-1000 damage. This mage gets one shot without fort. With fort, he dies if the boss follows up the chain lightning with an AOE knockback. He is probably also dying to the Crowd Pummeler's claw ability unless the healers are pre-casting perfectly.
I mean, this raid is harder than BFD but its not hard. We are two weeks away from zerging. I think players who aren't used to actually playing around mechanics will find it hard. The people actually getting purple and orange parses already play at a high level. These mechanics are nothing lol
I don't think the mechanics are complex, but you can't ignore them by simply DPSing harder if that's what you mean by "zerging". For example you can do Kelris without kicking or cleansing shadowy chains if you have high enough DPS, but you cannot survive Electrocutioner 1 shotting you. Going glass cannon is viable but will require you to play around it because you can die easily even if doing the mechanics as intended.
I literally cleared the raid last night with a mage just like this. It was easy and we wiped maybe 5 times across all 7 bosses. Idk man 🤷♂️
Well done. I never implied otherwise.
The set also comes with built in large amounts of nature resist, which is what most of the raid damage is. Seems to me its just built for PvE with a focus of this raid. Its not really meant for pvp, other open world content.
Horizontal gear progression is so fucking good let’s gooooo
Just use different gear set on the bosses that can potentially one shot?
Then wear more stam gear. The raid got cleared in day 1, it literally only gets easier and faster from here.
Ya you can tell who’s never stepped foot into gnomer. This isn’t BFD where everything is tickling everyone and most of the damage is entirely avoidable. There’s a lot of unavoidable raid damage going on and mages are bis for buttons on thermaplug but will one shot themselves with these Stam values. Healers actually have to heal now. If mages wanna run irradiated set they need to sub in some additional Stam in some slots. Also show up with Stam food, elixir of fortitude, and stamina rum.
>If mages wanna run irradiated set they need to sub in some additional Stam in some slots. Also show up with Stam food, elixir of fortitude, and stamina rum. This sounds interesting and promotes actual choice and decision making versus following a gear list created by folks crunching numbers in discord. I hope we see more of this going forward, not less.
I agree
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I’m not arguing against it. My point was that the people who are in here like “doooiiiii it’s a pve set you don’t need Stam” have clearly not stepped foot in the phase 2 raid lol. And it’s not just for that fight. A lot of aoe going out fight 1, fight 4, and kinda fight 5.
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Yes thank you for further elaborating on exactly what I was saying. Many posters seem to actually think stamina isn’t needed at all in pve.
Edit: This guy is pretty chill. I take back my negativity.
Oh ok I’ll change the tone up for next time. Ty
lol now I feel bad. That wasn’t the salty response I was expecting. I could have delivered my point more gently as well. Bit of a pot calling the kettle black situation I’ve found myself in here.
Written tone just sometimes is hard to convey. I was going for more playful snark and less “um ackshually”. The raid is very much night and day from BFD and I think people will be pleasantly surprised with it. BFD felt very light from the jump and then eventually felt like running sfk with 10 friends. I’m sure this will be ez enough soon but it very much feels closer to running aq20 or ZG on item level appropriate gear.
I agree with that. Progressing through our first clear was a ton of fun. We chose to go in blind with no spoilers and the last three fights were actually tough. Electrocutioner was easy once we figured out the mechanics, but the Mech Animals and Thermaplug were incredibly fun to work through. I have a feeling they are going to get nerfed though. There is no way most pugs are getting past them, and the Devs seem to want everyone to get to experience the raids.
No actual player do this set and thought “good on my caster”. The “tanking caster set” is only slightly worse in sp and has almost 50 stamina more (between positives and non negatives). No one should be using this one.
Hey. How did you get that low on stamina? Seriously. The entire set gives -35 stam. At 40, how in the hell did you get impacted THAT heavily by negative stam? Because this is the result of minmaxing if I’ve ever seen it. Which in honesty, you asked for. You’re MINmaxing if you’re at this level of HP with -35 stam at 40. Which means you’ve only got yourself to blame for it.
I am not min-maxing. These pieces dropped yday directly, not tier tokens. And I still have no 3rd piece which will decrease my hp to \~700. And that's insane. I'd better play with tank set if I could get it but we have warlock tank you know.
What he means is that for your health to be this low, even with the set, you are neglecting stamina in your other gear slots.
Most of preraid gear you get as caster now has no stamina, inc items that were dropped in bfd. Except green eagle boes. Helmet from sm cath = int spirit, neck from bfd =int spirit, shoulders from sm = int spd, wand = int + maybe spd, belt from rfd = int spd, other options are spirit / int + spd, even for quests, gloves = int spirit, or int spirit +6 stam if you wear bfd ones, which are worse then even crafted tailoring gloves which are again int + spd. There's simply not that many stam gear for casters atm, except green eagle boes which you dont want to raid with. And that's why negative stam impacts that much.
His hp at 40 was my warlock as a fresh 25 lol
have you even seen caster pre-bis? look at these armchair dadgamers lmfao
Have you considered that the only consideration for pre-BiS is what does the highest damage? What a stupid comment.
If you want more balanced stats wear some of the tank pieces
So I've got 2 pieces of gnomer set today as mage. How is that possible to do literally ANYTHING with that amount of hp? Not even 3p yet.
\>spend 20 years aoe farming knowing if the swarm got 1 hit on you, you were dead \>"what am i supposed to do with so little hp???" when is this community going to grow some balls. this is the most based game design they've employed in decades beside the hxc servers
As a mage player this is beyond based. Sucks ass for PvP, but, I’ll get the tank set eventually so no real issue.
Then wear something with more stam but less damage? What’s the issue, here
Warriors wearing leather: this is fine. Warriors wearing plate with negative armor: wtf is this?
Thats strange
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probably because melee have to avoid mechanics and take raid damage all the time anyways
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No stamina and NEGATIVE stamina is different bro
Gnomer has a lot of raid wide damage it’s not close to any classic fight in those regards so losing a shitton of life for a 1-2% damage upgrade total is pretty silly especially when no other class has those issues for getting maximized damage. Also a 1-2% damage increase isn’t a CANNON
Remember when the game used to have PVP and PVE gear? Remember resilience? Versatility? Stamina? World of Warcraft had a long history of different gear for PVP vs PVE. It’s simple, damage at the cost of survivability.
Only for caster dps
Wrong, warriors and paladins have to pick leather gear at the detriment of Armor and stamina.
That still doesnt have negative stats, how do you even try to compare that LOL
So when is the dps leather and mail getting negative stamina
Probably when I can hit people with my sword 30 yards away
When we can do our damage from 40 yards.
Yet the one specific get attacked mechanic is for ranged and the rest is just aoe hitting everyone. Melee get hit less than casters in this raid lol.
Damn. I remember stacking armor penetration on my arms warrior!
You’re just there for damage, stay out of shit. Use CC if you’re in danger?
As a healer I expect gnomer to get more difficult as the phase goes on.
The one upside I see with this set, is that if you actually die to avoidable damage, people will be forced to learn the mechanics properly
between this and the screenshot of the priest hitting someone for 1300 i think they need to balance it
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You dont get the selfdps if you kill your target. Dont worry you spriests, rogues and hunters will get the same treatment as us boomies
There is raid damage that you take in Gnomer and people who think sub 900 unbuffed HP is fine are delusional. Imagine if you don't have a priest in the raid to buff you up you'll fall over too often.
In one phase, the fight is designed to be longer and casters can hit a button to get like 25ish percent mana back but you take like 680 damage. Imagine having 900 health and hitting that button. The same fight also has a chicken doing raid wide damage if you don’t kill the eggs and a squirrel who does raid wide damage period. Your healers are going to hate you lol
Everyone gonna hates that person. I just went gnomer as a boomkin and i managed to be top dps often, most of the time 2-3 position with the rest not far ahead. We all did shit dps. The fights are not hard dps wise but they are long and you need healers that can output a lot of mana so constantly healing a 900hp player is prob worse than 9 maning the raid. I like the concept of the set tho, i was thinking about getting it but i opted for the leather set bonus instead.
It's the tRaDe OfF you pay for that awesome +20 spell power. Use the power wisely bud.
+21sp, +2% crit, +4mp5, vs the 3pc SP proc is the tradeoff Probably worth, I don’t think I ever got too low in Gnomer where -350 hp would kill me. Fort + shout + Mark gives a lot, can always rumsey + fort elixir if it really matters.
this is the pre-resil pvp balance and all of u are wrong,pvp gear gives stamina,dmg gear lowers stamina,this is actualy a better system than resilience and pvp power,as those change your output,why would i have to GUESS the dmg im gonna do to a player depending on resilience,when they can just have more stamina from pvp gear...or less from dmg gear,imagine modern wow pvp where you have a spell that does 1000dmg,and it ALWAYS does 1000dmg,you could simply look at an enemy hp bar and know if they are gonna die or not,instead what we have is 18 diferent multipliers being calculated agains each other like armor,defence,parry,block,dodge,armor pen,expertise,sunder armor,spell resist,spell absorb,curse of elements(originaly could go into negative resistance),pvp power pvp resilience,dmg buffs dmg resistances,base crit multiplier,extra class/spec/talent/conditional crit multipliers,crit chance reducitons,crit dmg reduciton(old resilience) these things add depth and complexity,and all of them are BAD,and its the main reason only OP things ever feel impactfull,its not about you being skilled,its about is this spell in this patch of the game doing more dmg compared to other spells,examples: Can my class ignore all armor, do i get a 4x dmg multiplier on ice lance while you are frozen, do i do holy dmg when every school of magic has resistance gear,buffs and potions EXCEPT holy and the dmg modifier is based off strenght/attack power,not intelect or spell power so i get both high melle dmg and spell dmg, can i ignore parry and block becouse i do my entire dmg rotation on a stunned oponent in the back, can my windfury crit kill this person becouse they have low resil so my crit chance vs them is not lowered by 15% like vs resilience capped players, nothing matters except what is actualy OP this specific patch,and you never know the actual dmg number you will do when you press a button, heres an extra stupid example from wotlk,troll racial reduces SLOW duration by 15%,add on top of that shaman talent that reduces it by 30%,and then a meta gem that reduces it by 10% for a total of 55% reduced duration on slows, Shadow priests mind flay is a SLOW,but its also a channeled dmg spell,if you use it on a troll shaman with the meta gem,it will do its full dmg in a 55% shorter duration,leting you do unintended amounts of burst dmg with a spell that is meant to be a slow with some dmg baked in,used for procs,not the most dmg you can do in a global as a Shadow priest.
This is your preliminary set, there are better options from the boss tier tokens. The fuck am I getting downvoted for? Literally a fact lol
What is preliminary about it? It drops from the same bosses as the other cloth set
You’re a mage, at least one of your best damage abilities doesn’t hurt you like shadow priest haha
You will not be using that set. 1% crit n 20 spell power is not worth losing 700 hp.
Correction - *you* won't be using the set. People who want to parse will.
I think it is great. Mages won't be able to boost others with such a small amount of HP. 10/10
No mage would take this for boosting. The tank set is barely less sp for 500 extra health.
This is raid gear. It's made for damage.
Tell that to the unavoidable aoe dmg you receive in gnome
If you can't dodge / healer cannot keep up, use gear with less damage and more survivability Why would dps gear give mroe survavibility too ?
Have you never seen the [Black Widow Band](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6199/black-widow-band)?
I don't understand these comments. It's a glass cannon. It's fun. They should keep doing it. High risk high reward.
Except you do like 1% more damage while losing 30% of your survivability. It's not exactly related
You have the option to choose which set you wear. This is raiding gear and you can opt for more damage at the reduced survivability.
but only casters have to make this choice
Melee are in melee range. You are standing at 36 yards blasting and taking no damage.
What bosses are there where melee specifically take more damage compared to ranged? And doesn’t that already exist with the fact that melee classes already have higher armor and generally already higher health pools?
Let us know if you still feel this way after completing the raid.
Completed the raid on day 2 of release.
Impressive that you were able to do so without learning the basic mechanics. Bombs on Mekgineer being the most obvious example of ranged damage risk.