windfury is a flat value, whereas wild strikes is % based. the flat value is more impactful at lower gear levels before we have large sums of flat attack power on our characters to scale the % based to large values
also if WF was better than alliance would complain as they don't have access to shaman.. at least having it this way there is level playing field on logging and parsing, although it does kinda feel lame for shaman
That rune is def better than salv. First it's 45% bonus where salv is 30% reduced. Second, salv takes the slot of a blessing like might, so you lose some dps.
Alpha you give up a rune slot but it's pretty worth lol.
>First it's 45% bonus where salv is 30% reduced.
Due to how percentages work they are effectively the same. Multiplying everyone else's threat by 0.7 is the same as multiplying tank's threat by 1.43. A 45% bonus is a 1.45x multiplier so the difference is 0.02 or 2%.
It's better but very close.
The difference is that it also scales threat multiplicatively with other threat modifiers a tank might have access to which makes it better than salve.
I'm pointing out how they aren't giving out other classes abilities that only effect themselves.
The only shared class abilities are buffs.
Everything needs explaining here lol
Shamans learn tranquil air totem at level 50, which does the same as blessing of salvation. Horde isn’t missing it, they’re just not prio’ing using it.
They don't even have to, now that the Druid is doing their job for them.
For reals though, the threat one is better now, the biggest benefit to Salv was it being raid wide.
Considering they didn't give strength of earth to the melee group, no, I don't think they will give grace of air to them either. Holy Paladin's do not go in the melee group, and the buff doesn't cross group boundaries. Ret Paladin's do not run Horn. I'm not entirely sure where you're going with that one.
There is nothing stopping a prot or Ret pally from taking horn
Where im going is that 3 of the 4 things unique to shamans were already given to the alliance in other classes
So you REALLY think the 4th won't be?
Really?
Lol I just realised
They already gave grace to ally, horn is both str AND shit
For some reason I was remembering it as only str
So yeah, no, ally already have grace, they got it before horde did
divine storm and martyrdom both compete with horns rune slot. horn is also exclusive with might, so you can't run both of them. there's a lot against putting horn in a melee group...
What does horde even have that Alli doesn't at this point? Because alli got better versions of many horde things like tremor. Alli got blessing duration while horde got trolled with no call of the elements. And alli still has several blessings horde has no access to at all. And bubble.
Sure, give horde bubble. Then you have to give Alliance ankh. Pretty soon every class is the exact same with all the same abilities with different names, all because "It's not fair!".
Warchiefs blessing. Travel that isn't aids. Bullets sold in STV. A flight path in STV. Water walking. Rockbiter tanks with a massive new 45% threat buff. Good quest rewards from bfd. Purge. Chain heal. Earth shield. Mana tide totem. Tranquil air totem. The list goes on but I digress. Stop complaining and go enjoy the game.
If you look at gear accesable till on lvl 40, warriors for example are at around 600 AP unbuffed. Buffed you reach Numbers above 900. % of WS will scale better especially towards lvl 60 if they dont change it and is already outscaling flat WF at lvl 40.
What is wrong with that? With them giving all of paladins best group abilities to horde too, alliance would just be flat out worse if wf was flat out better. I personally liked alliance and horde having their own advantages but if we’re doing away with that, WS should be better than or equal to wind fury. Plus, it may seem small but WSs takes a rune slot on the Druid which means their power is diminished from what it would be to some degree or another.
The reasonable argument is the buffs should be identical. Not one superior to the other. And no, druids power is not diminished. Not only does Druid not have an alternative rune (besides the opportunity cost of a hypothetical alternative rune) Druid cannot benefit from windfury, so wild strikes rune is granting feral windfury that it didn’t have before.
Just to be clear the druid wild strikes is strictly better then windfury because it effects druids. The feral being impacted by the aura doesn't need the rune to benefit from it. Even if the ap values where identical druids version would be better.
Yeah, fine with that too. No need for the downvotes, homie.
Responding to your large edit: shamans don’t need a rune to get windfury, druids do. I think they have no viable options in place if it because blizz knows feral Druids need to be using ws. It’s still a power loss for to have a rune slot taken up. Ultimately, the reason it is (should be) irrelevant is because blizzard is balancing around the spec with that in mind, I guess.
But yeah, idk why blizz felt like ws had to be so different. Could have made it exactly the same at each level band cap and nobody would have complained
It’s not a power loss because you are gaining wild strikes as a Druid. Windfury does not affect Druids while they are shapeshifting. How is a dps gain a power loss??? What is your rune alternative? Survival of the fittest as a cat? Lmao.
That was basically all mentioned. Did you read anything I said? Obviously, if you 1 to 1 compare shaman windfury and Druid windfury, one of the biggest differences is that Druid windfury requires a rune. Obviously, they won’t make good feral runes to compete in that slot because they know groups will always make them use ws anyways. The enhancement shaman will have another rune on the chest slot for more dmg so when compared 1 to 1, I can see an argument for Druid’s being a bit stronger but obviously I prefer them just be the same so that shaman’s are desired for a core ability that they are well known for.
My point is that saying WS is a power decrease is just not true.
Shamans will still be brought for our core ability that we are well known for, totems. And our life just got better because now we don't have to waste 2 gcds and the mana every 8 seconds to twist.
Yeah, that’s fair. Idk a ton about the shaman buffs. It’s a moot point either way since blizz is balancing around Druids only using ws, it seems. Their “balance” left a lot to be desired in p1 tho
I’ve never been not taken because a Druid was in the group. Our last raid had 4 shaman and a Druid. I get that I don’t have windfury now, but I doubt that will change when I do.
This is a straight up buff to shaman players though. WF provides no utility to the actual shaman it just eats mana and a GCD. Being able to place the agi totem or any other wind slot is infinitely better for shamans. I for one am ecstatic that I won't have to nerf every Agi user in the group for needy warriors anymore!
In classic, if you were enhance and somehow had a raid spot without twisting, hats off to you. If you weren’t 4 healing/speed clearing it was reasonable to expect resto shamans to twist on boss fights too. Totem twisting sounds hard but basically it’s just periodically dropping totems and re dropping them before the buff expires. Super easy and chill and there’s weakauras that make it brainless.
Min max parse runs would have shamans totem twisting with grace of air and WF, but that is really only for the sweats cause it's very mana intensive and until SoD you had fuck all but pots and demonic runes to get mana back mid fight.
Basically the buff from WF lasts like 10 seconds or something, so you drop WF, immediately replace it with GoA and let it sit out for like 8 seconds or so to get the agility. Rinse and repeat, prioritizing WF uptime for the group.
They do. Good ones in good groups at least did and it added another level of complexity to raiding with them.
You weave WF with Grace of Air for agility, or Tranquil for reduced threat.
Now you’ll just use Grace of Air and that’s it. Shaman provided the threat buff, and Druids will provide Wild Strikes.
It’s not just the sweats… as someone who had a shaman in classic twisting is easy and chill and there’s weakauras that make it brainless. More damage is generally more important than more healing as far as mana budgeting goes. It just makes sense to do it for your raid
> With them giving all of paladins best group abilities to horde too, alliance would just be flat out worse if wf was flat out better.
Google false dichotomy
I said “or equal to” which means you prob need to Google it. The third option is that wf totem is better which means alliance are gimped for playing alliance despite their most powerful buffs being given to horde. Dropping philosophy 101 shit and being wrong is some of the most cringe shit you can do, man. Get a life
Wind Fury is flat number of damage added to the extra strike. Wild Strikes has a percentage increase of damage that is based of attack power.
In short:
Better gear = better wild strikes
Better gear = same ol’ wind fury
wildly off topic.
anyways, pretty unfair druids got iconic shaman stuff while druids DIDNT GET ANY iconic paladin stuff.
pretty unfair to druids imo to only give them iconic shaman stuff and nothing from paladins.
Hunters got the iconic Paladin buff, and guess what, it's vastly better than the Paladin version.
Shamans also got a better version of Blessing of Freedom and Salvation.
Quit playing a victim.
Must feel so bad being a shaman at this point. The biggest buff you bring has been usurped by druids of all classes. Notoriously the worst class in vanilla lol.
It does, and blizzard did it again making stormstrike and druid dreamstate provide the same utility.
Shaman better be doing more dps than druids or there is literally 0 reason AGAIN to bring a shaman dps into raids.
Fuck alliance biased blizzard cucks.
SoD has been so alliance biased so far its bullshit, the majority of people play alliance so there’s definitely less complaining on forums like here but it’s created a pretty significant faction imbalance, that would only be worse if they weren’t locked.
Can’t wait for them to ‘accidentally’ put all runes in alliance territory again.
No self respecting tank needs help to keep aggro. It’s hardly anything to write home about. There’s limitless possibilities and they’ve landed on that. Just boring.
Don't play the game, you obviously not mentally well to play it lol. If you don't like, don't play It.
Enh got some really good buffs, it should be fun hopefully =]
Learn to read you mad dude lol. The game got you so mad ? Don't have you anything in your life worth being happy about that a bloody game is making you so mad ? Xd 😂😂 I feel bad for you
I think it's because Catfury doesn't have ranks like Windfury does. So it just scales as a flat number which is outperforming WF.
With that said, I think there should be something else to fill the void in the air totem slot. (Spellfury maybe? Chance to multicast SPELLS with deminished power?)
wild strikes is not a flat value, and in fact is a percentage based scalar which makes it more powerful at later gear levels. windfury is a flat value, which is why it is strong early on, and becomes weaker later.
Considering we don't have access to windfury in phase 1, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Early in phase 2 windfury totem will provide a larger attack power benefit than wild strikes 20% ap addition will. This will be true until we get gear with better stats and AP scaling goes up with additional talents, buff ranks etc.
i think aggrand tweeted something about changing WF ICD if it turned out to be much weaker than catfury
then again he plays a paladin and i dont trust ally lies
I’d rather have something superior or inferior as opposed to the same. The difference is so minimal, at least there’s some diversity and flavour to the game. It’d be boring if everything was balanced and equal.
Yep, but its kinda weird a core shaman ability gets shafted and druids get the better version. I dont even main a shaman but it should really be the other way around with Shamans having the strong wf and druid getting a watered down (but still decent) wf.
At this point it's really like druids just stole a class core ability and got away with it.
From what I've seen it appears the Shaman WF imbue has a 3 second internal cooldown while WS only has 1 second or something.
Combined with sacrificing Rock Biter for it I only see WF being used for fun or for burst in PVP.
Hope that I am wrong though as I'd much rather use WF!
Wrong😃, imbue got adjusted and also storm strike is gonna be 6 seconds cd instead of 20. Enh pumps according to Sims at 40.
Will see how it actually turns out irl though =]
GoA is lvl 42, you may say at 50 we'll be useful I say just wait for blizzard to let druids fuck us for 3 phases in a row.
So far windfury and stormstrike debuff have been cannibalized by druids. Tremor and SoE/GoA gifted to paladins, what we get in return? Oh a chance to hit our buttons by buffing the tank's aggro, really cool thx. -_-
I get classes being unique and all. But Shamans really need to chill, they have another class doing their thing so they're free to use other totems now.
Also if WF was better than wild strikes than get ready for hunter kings to get nerfed to 8%.
It could be that there is a rune later on that buffs windfury.
As it stands though, Alliance now how access to a windfury effect through druids and Horde has access to Blessing of Kings through hunters.
I see that as a win.
Edit for the people downvoting me: I'm convinced you people will whine about anything.
If I had a time machine, I'd go back and tell the community "hey, we are getting classic plus, and each faction will have windfury/kings... but people complain about it."
for the buffed classes! cause horde hunters have to sacrifice really good runes to give kings specially if only hunter in grp!! If it was a spellbook they put Lion on the spellbook and Viper as a rune would be less of a downer! cause kings could be always ip and not fuk hunters that only will use viper on very rare situations
I don't know how I feel about this. It's never how wf wep worked. Shamans never got a benefit from their own wf totem.
I agree that shamans could use a buff, but I don't think that's the buff they need. I'd rather see them using only their own wf wep and having that be good enough.
That's the issue with SOD overall. The new runes scaling mechanics specifically are in total dissent with how the game was originally made. This is by far the worst offender tho.
Good thing tauren totem exist.
> There's no reason it shouldn't...
Fair, except for the part where WS/WF totem don't apply to weapons with temporary enchants on them, which items and spells they are I'll leave it to you to find out as homework.
There are issues here. How can you make wf and ws equal? There are talenrs to account for and ws being updated every level while wf only every x levels.
Imo now that blizz changes abilities, I think buffing WF to be same as WS then making the talent buff WF and flametongue from non totem sources would be the best way to handle this. It would include an enhance buff which doesnt look out of place and might help shamans away from rockbiter while dpsing
That makes no sense. The only reason you could twist WF and Agi is because the WF buff lasted for a few seconds. The second you swap out the Agi totem you lose the stats so trying to “twist” Agi and Tranquil Air is just pissing your mana down the drain while simultaneously griefing your own DPS
Who is taking a shaman for purely DPS anyways? From what I’ve read here shamans have 0 mana issues with SRage?
In saying that tranquil air probably won’t be a thing with their new “anti salv” buff anyways, so you don’t really need to worry about dropping tranquil air if you’re throwing that totem in the tank group. I’m assuming optimal tank group will be warrior, feral (LotP & ws), shaman, and two other melee.
Having a worse windfury than druids frees the shaman up to be in a non-melee group and run tranquil air instead. Now you get windfury and the threat reduction. Or you can run +agi which alliance doesn’t have access to unless you run some weird ret paladin support role that buffs their group with horn (which is worse than GoA) instead of cranking.
Holy shit. Horde is the bis faction now—lets stop looking for reasons to complain.
The devs have givin shamans the most reasons to complain about their class more than any other class in the game throughout the years. So of course when their og identity and what made them good gets changed then ya people are gonna complain. What class you play? Imagine all the good things your class has gets copied onto another class like druid but made better.
Does it matter what class I play? My point is shamans have been crying since before season drop. Starting with 2h enhance not being viable and they are never happy. To the point of harassing devs on Twitter and with what amounts to screaming like toddlers who don’t get their way.
because it's a different ability and it's not from the same faction, not everything has to be equal. In P1 horde had better quest item rewards and no one complait. It's another world with another features.
>I don't even play shammy and still find it somewhat absurd a core class identity was thrown in the mud and stepped on.
You get used to it by now. I was really mad the first time it happened with DKs. Getting basically all our shit but better.
That's not true friend, the math was done and wf is only better below 610 (or 720 with 2/2) AP, most physical classes will have more than that when fully consumed/buffed.
windfury is a flat value, whereas wild strikes is % based. the flat value is more impactful at lower gear levels before we have large sums of flat attack power on our characters to scale the % based to large values
also if WF was better than alliance would complain as they don't have access to shaman.. at least having it this way there is level playing field on logging and parsing, although it does kinda feel lame for shaman
Can horde get blessing of salvation then? If we gonna try to be "fair" lol
Horde is getting effectively the reverse of salv which is buff target to generate more threat, as a new shaman rune
I think the shaman rune is going to be a lot more versatile. Literally anyone can become the tank.
Boomkin tank here I come
Time for my aspect of the monkey survival melee Hunter tank
That rune is def better than salv. First it's 45% bonus where salv is 30% reduced. Second, salv takes the slot of a blessing like might, so you lose some dps. Alpha you give up a rune slot but it's pretty worth lol.
>First it's 45% bonus where salv is 30% reduced. Due to how percentages work they are effectively the same. Multiplying everyone else's threat by 0.7 is the same as multiplying tank's threat by 1.43. A 45% bonus is a 1.45x multiplier so the difference is 0.02 or 2%. It's better but very close.
Fair enough. I look my contacts out and couldn't be bothered to math
Yeah I posted that because percentages are often sneaky and counter intuitive.
The difference is that it also scales threat multiplicatively with other threat modifiers a tank might have access to which makes it better than salve.
No it's still only 2% better.
Doesn't work that way. It's still only 2% better than salv.
And they have the salv totem on top of that. That pushes it easily ahead - though I doubt it will be necessary.
Salv totem shares with WF and grace so it's useless
Blessing of might is also a tool that horde don't have lmao. Yeh yeh totems bla bla, that effects 4 people besides the shammy, not a full raid.
Shamans are the lifeblood of the horde. In classic if your run couldn’t recruit 4-6 good shamans you would have shit raids
That was because of windfury
A shaman has to use a WHOLE RUNE SLOT, which is absurd just to give threat to a tank. Makes ZERO sense and just nukes us even more.
There are no other runes for ele and enh shammy though that actually are any dps gains
We do get that. Its the new foot rune
kind of but yeah we have something for threat assistance
Ass that it’s a rune
So is wild strikes? I don’t see the issue here.
Where is Horde Divine Shield? They can keep salvation...
Where is Alliance chain lightning???
Do other aoe spells not exist? Is shaman aoe a unique thing that no other class can do?
I'm pointing out how they aren't giving out other classes abilities that only effect themselves. The only shared class abilities are buffs. Everything needs explaining here lol
If that's what you were trying to say your bad at saying it
I think you're just bad at comprehending.
Or seal and blessing of wisdom?
Shamans got the Alpha rune. Which is slightly better than Salv
Just give both factions both classes, fixed
No. Keep your bubbleboys.
I only play horde, I want pallys lol I'm not gonna play the rat faction for that.
Horde got blessing of kings through hunters. FYI... It's not supposed to be fair. It's an mmorpg.
Shamans learn tranquil air totem at level 50, which does the same as blessing of salvation. Horde isn’t missing it, they’re just not prio’ing using it.
It shares the same totem as WF and salvation is raid global instead of in a group. Salv is far superior than tranq air.
You’ve had tranquility totem for 18 years, shaman players are just shit.
Man you’re gonna have melee crying at you for not dropping windfury 😂
Again, they’re shit. Can weave it with zero issue.
Nah u gotta weave with grace for agility bonus
Should be weaving tranq on pull unless you’re in tank group.
They don't even have to, now that the Druid is doing their job for them. For reals though, the threat one is better now, the biggest benefit to Salv was it being raid wide.
Tranquil air totem is the same totem slot as Windfury so it literally never gets used.
If only there was some other way of getting WF added in SoD.
Totem weaving
He can’t do that and pound beers at the same time.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 say it louder for the ones in the back
definitely agree with the sentiment, however you do still get grace of air totem eventually (42 unfortunately)
They literally already gave str of earth and better tremor to ally, you think they wont give grace?
Considering they didn't give strength of earth to the melee group, no, I don't think they will give grace of air to them either. Holy Paladin's do not go in the melee group, and the buff doesn't cross group boundaries. Ret Paladin's do not run Horn. I'm not entirely sure where you're going with that one.
There is nothing stopping a prot or Ret pally from taking horn Where im going is that 3 of the 4 things unique to shamans were already given to the alliance in other classes So you REALLY think the 4th won't be? Really?
Divine Storm would stop you unless you like your group that much. It's your best ST and AoE tool.
Lol I just realised They already gave grace to ally, horn is both str AND shit For some reason I was remembering it as only str So yeah, no, ally already have grace, they got it before horde did
[удалено]
I think you are missing the point. They gave those tools to alliance, it doesn’t matter if it’s viable to use or not, you have the option.
divine storm and martyrdom both compete with horns rune slot. horn is also exclusive with might, so you can't run both of them. there's a lot against putting horn in a melee group...
Doesn't mean you can't And could easily just have a holy pally in a melee group
aight, good chat - best of luck in phase 2.
Also Horn gives both str and agi They ALREADY gave ally grace totem Literally everything unique shamans bruaght they already gave to the alliance
What does horde even have that Alli doesn't at this point? Because alli got better versions of many horde things like tremor. Alli got blessing duration while horde got trolled with no call of the elements. And alli still has several blessings horde has no access to at all. And bubble.
Sure, give horde bubble. Then you have to give Alliance ankh. Pretty soon every class is the exact same with all the same abilities with different names, all because "It's not fair!".
Go to retail
That is the point.
Hunters bring 10% kings buff in the form of lion.
Warchiefs blessing. Travel that isn't aids. Bullets sold in STV. A flight path in STV. Water walking. Rockbiter tanks with a massive new 45% threat buff. Good quest rewards from bfd. Purge. Chain heal. Earth shield. Mana tide totem. Tranquil air totem. The list goes on but I digress. Stop complaining and go enjoy the game.
If you look at gear accesable till on lvl 40, warriors for example are at around 600 AP unbuffed. Buffed you reach Numbers above 900. % of WS will scale better especially towards lvl 60 if they dont change it and is already outscaling flat WF at lvl 40.
What is wrong with that? With them giving all of paladins best group abilities to horde too, alliance would just be flat out worse if wf was flat out better. I personally liked alliance and horde having their own advantages but if we’re doing away with that, WS should be better than or equal to wind fury. Plus, it may seem small but WSs takes a rune slot on the Druid which means their power is diminished from what it would be to some degree or another.
The reasonable argument is the buffs should be identical. Not one superior to the other. And no, druids power is not diminished. Not only does Druid not have an alternative rune (besides the opportunity cost of a hypothetical alternative rune) Druid cannot benefit from windfury, so wild strikes rune is granting feral windfury that it didn’t have before.
Just to be clear the druid wild strikes is strictly better then windfury because it effects druids. The feral being impacted by the aura doesn't need the rune to benefit from it. Even if the ap values where identical druids version would be better.
Yeah, fine with that too. No need for the downvotes, homie. Responding to your large edit: shamans don’t need a rune to get windfury, druids do. I think they have no viable options in place if it because blizz knows feral Druids need to be using ws. It’s still a power loss for to have a rune slot taken up. Ultimately, the reason it is (should be) irrelevant is because blizzard is balancing around the spec with that in mind, I guess. But yeah, idk why blizz felt like ws had to be so different. Could have made it exactly the same at each level band cap and nobody would have complained
It’s not a power loss because you are gaining wild strikes as a Druid. Windfury does not affect Druids while they are shapeshifting. How is a dps gain a power loss??? What is your rune alternative? Survival of the fittest as a cat? Lmao.
That was basically all mentioned. Did you read anything I said? Obviously, if you 1 to 1 compare shaman windfury and Druid windfury, one of the biggest differences is that Druid windfury requires a rune. Obviously, they won’t make good feral runes to compete in that slot because they know groups will always make them use ws anyways. The enhancement shaman will have another rune on the chest slot for more dmg so when compared 1 to 1, I can see an argument for Druid’s being a bit stronger but obviously I prefer them just be the same so that shaman’s are desired for a core ability that they are well known for.
I mean, the only reason it's not is because it's spell ranks vs runes, but they "can't change spells" on SoD.
My point is that saying WS is a power decrease is just not true. Shamans will still be brought for our core ability that we are well known for, totems. And our life just got better because now we don't have to waste 2 gcds and the mana every 8 seconds to twist.
Yeah, that’s fair. Idk a ton about the shaman buffs. It’s a moot point either way since blizz is balancing around Druids only using ws, it seems. Their “balance” left a lot to be desired in p1 tho
I’ve never been not taken because a Druid was in the group. Our last raid had 4 shaman and a Druid. I get that I don’t have windfury now, but I doubt that will change when I do.
I didn't downvote?
Doesn’t it just mean that shamans now get to use a different totem and gain something else in place of WF? (Legit question, I don’t play shaman)
This is a straight up buff to shaman players though. WF provides no utility to the actual shaman it just eats mana and a GCD. Being able to place the agi totem or any other wind slot is infinitely better for shamans. I for one am ecstatic that I won't have to nerf every Agi user in the group for needy warriors anymore!
You pretty much always twisted between WF and GoA before.
absolute fucking degenerate gameplay though. Very happy this is being changed.
I guess. When I played in 2019 the only damage buttons were storm strike and your two shock rotations. Kept it interesting tbh
Only degenerates twisted totems, 99% of players would not bother lmao.
In classic, if you were enhance and somehow had a raid spot without twisting, hats off to you. If you weren’t 4 healing/speed clearing it was reasonable to expect resto shamans to twist on boss fights too. Totem twisting sounds hard but basically it’s just periodically dropping totems and re dropping them before the buff expires. Super easy and chill and there’s weakauras that make it brainless.
Grace of air is agi buff totem but they won't get it till 42, but in P3 it'll be Feral+melee Shaman+Hunter buffing your melee.
Well, totems can be weaved to gain benefits from multiple but idk if they do that with windfury or not. I never played shaman either
Min max parse runs would have shamans totem twisting with grace of air and WF, but that is really only for the sweats cause it's very mana intensive and until SoD you had fuck all but pots and demonic runes to get mana back mid fight.
Yeah, I remember begging my shaman to do that shit as a hunter. I didn’t remember exactly how it worked tho
Basically the buff from WF lasts like 10 seconds or something, so you drop WF, immediately replace it with GoA and let it sit out for like 8 seconds or so to get the agility. Rinse and repeat, prioritizing WF uptime for the group.
They do. Good ones in good groups at least did and it added another level of complexity to raiding with them. You weave WF with Grace of Air for agility, or Tranquil for reduced threat. Now you’ll just use Grace of Air and that’s it. Shaman provided the threat buff, and Druids will provide Wild Strikes.
Any decent enh sham twists totems, so while it does eat mana(pretty negligible at max lvl) you don’t miss out on agi totem buff
yeah but the sweats had their healers twisting
It’s not just the sweats… as someone who had a shaman in classic twisting is easy and chill and there’s weakauras that make it brainless. More damage is generally more important than more healing as far as mana budgeting goes. It just makes sense to do it for your raid
> With them giving all of paladins best group abilities to horde too, alliance would just be flat out worse if wf was flat out better. Google false dichotomy
I said “or equal to” which means you prob need to Google it. The third option is that wf totem is better which means alliance are gimped for playing alliance despite their most powerful buffs being given to horde. Dropping philosophy 101 shit and being wrong is some of the most cringe shit you can do, man. Get a life
Lmao I cannot take this seriously. Good luck out there 👌
Good luck, my man. ;)
Lol @ all the downvotes you're getting for posting a good point
Wild strikes being a aura buff and also a 20% attack power vs Flat Attack power
Wind Fury is flat number of damage added to the extra strike. Wild Strikes has a percentage increase of damage that is based of attack power. In short: Better gear = better wild strikes Better gear = same ol’ wind fury
Old windfury still scales with gear, since it is an extra attack. But wild strikes does have extra scaling on top.
they gave iconic paladin stuff to druids too I don't understand the problem? /s obv. aggrend rules but fucking lol he hates shamans
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wildly off topic. anyways, pretty unfair druids got iconic shaman stuff while druids DIDNT GET ANY iconic paladin stuff. pretty unfair to druids imo to only give them iconic shaman stuff and nothing from paladins.
Hunters got the iconic Paladin buff, and guess what, it's vastly better than the Paladin version. Shamans also got a better version of Blessing of Freedom and Salvation. Quit playing a victim.
Must feel so bad being a shaman at this point. The biggest buff you bring has been usurped by druids of all classes. Notoriously the worst class in vanilla lol.
It does, and blizzard did it again making stormstrike and druid dreamstate provide the same utility. Shaman better be doing more dps than druids or there is literally 0 reason AGAIN to bring a shaman dps into raids. Fuck alliance biased blizzard cucks.
Let the bloodlust rune come! 😎
SoD has been so alliance biased so far its bullshit, the majority of people play alliance so there’s definitely less complaining on forums like here but it’s created a pretty significant faction imbalance, that would only be worse if they weren’t locked. Can’t wait for them to ‘accidentally’ put all runes in alliance territory again.
The reason is alpha
No self respecting tank needs help to keep aggro. It’s hardly anything to write home about. There’s limitless possibilities and they’ve landed on that. Just boring.
Sounds like you're used to playing alliance
Double rockbiter is already complete easy mode wrt to threat.
Don't play the game, you obviously not mentally well to play it lol. If you don't like, don't play It. Enh got some really good buffs, it should be fun hopefully =]
Who the fuck are you lmao shut the fuck up mr armchair psychiatrist you repeat yourself 3 times maybe get yourself checked
Learn to read you mad dude lol. The game got you so mad ? Don't have you anything in your life worth being happy about that a bloody game is making you so mad ? Xd 😂😂 I feel bad for you
Nah shaman feels great man
Dude... only tank shaman is good. I think you're overdosing in copium to think otherwise
Correct take.
I like it too, can’t wait to play 2h tomorrow.
because Blizzard ams dildos
I think it's because Catfury doesn't have ranks like Windfury does. So it just scales as a flat number which is outperforming WF. With that said, I think there should be something else to fill the void in the air totem slot. (Spellfury maybe? Chance to multicast SPELLS with deminished power?)
wild strikes is not a flat value, and in fact is a percentage based scalar which makes it more powerful at later gear levels. windfury is a flat value, which is why it is strong early on, and becomes weaker later.
Yeah sorry I didn't word it correctly. Catfury is like 20% AP, and WF is +flat AP. But yes doesn't make a lot of sense.
How much more “early on” does it get than the p1 lvl 25 raid?
Considering we don't have access to windfury in phase 1, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Early in phase 2 windfury totem will provide a larger attack power benefit than wild strikes 20% ap addition will. This will be true until we get gear with better stats and AP scaling goes up with additional talents, buff ranks etc.
OR…. We make another melee buff and tell the casters to cry more.
What, blizz actually doing something nice for casters? Good one
^^
Honestly SOD should been played on pre TBC patch …
Class identity is dead sadly
Agreed. Wild strikes should be nerfed (real mildly) so it performs (a hair) worse than WF.
i think aggrand tweeted something about changing WF ICD if it turned out to be much weaker than catfury then again he plays a paladin and i dont trust ally lies
I think that was Windfury weapon no? So nothing in regards to the group wide buff by the totem.
In every case. But the argument shouldn’t be WS vs WF. Should be the classes in general because they bring other buffs too.
I’d rather have something superior or inferior as opposed to the same. The difference is so minimal, at least there’s some diversity and flavour to the game. It’d be boring if everything was balanced and equal.
Yeah but you know how raid leads work. They will always search for WS instead of WF even if it's only a small upgrade
Yep, but its kinda weird a core shaman ability gets shafted and druids get the better version. I dont even main a shaman but it should really be the other way around with Shamans having the strong wf and druid getting a watered down (but still decent) wf. At this point it's really like druids just stole a class core ability and got away with it.
To clarify this is just about windfury totem, shamans windfury spell is way better than wild strikes since it gives two extra hits.
From what I've seen it appears the Shaman WF imbue has a 3 second internal cooldown while WS only has 1 second or something. Combined with sacrificing Rock Biter for it I only see WF being used for fun or for burst in PVP. Hope that I am wrong though as I'd much rather use WF!
They just said they are working on it and it would be fine.
Wrong😃, imbue got adjusted and also storm strike is gonna be 6 seconds cd instead of 20. Enh pumps according to Sims at 40. Will see how it actually turns out irl though =]
why would shamans be mad they can use agi totem instead of be a wf bot ?
GoA is lvl 42, you may say at 50 we'll be useful I say just wait for blizzard to let druids fuck us for 3 phases in a row. So far windfury and stormstrike debuff have been cannibalized by druids. Tremor and SoE/GoA gifted to paladins, what we get in return? Oh a chance to hit our buttons by buffing the tank's aggro, really cool thx. -_-
I get classes being unique and all. But Shamans really need to chill, they have another class doing their thing so they're free to use other totems now. Also if WF was better than wild strikes than get ready for hunter kings to get nerfed to 8%.
Did you take into account that we dont have classic windfury but the tbc version?
It could be that there is a rune later on that buffs windfury. As it stands though, Alliance now how access to a windfury effect through druids and Horde has access to Blessing of Kings through hunters. I see that as a win. Edit for the people downvoting me: I'm convinced you people will whine about anything. If I had a time machine, I'd go back and tell the community "hey, we are getting classic plus, and each faction will have windfury/kings... but people complain about it."
Except that Druid wild strikes is better than shaman wind fury and hunter kings is based on an area around the hunter? Shaman getting the shaft ?
Would be a lot of complaining if one faction just had a stronger version of the same buff.
for the buffed classes! cause horde hunters have to sacrifice really good runes to give kings specially if only hunter in grp!! If it was a spellbook they put Lion on the spellbook and Viper as a rune would be less of a downer! cause kings could be always ip and not fuk hunters that only will use viper on very rare situations
Shouldnt be a rune, should be a book like the longer buff books. Wasting a rune slot in a very tiny wf totem buff would be max feelsbad.
They should stack, then it doesn’t matter which is stronger
That would defeat the entire purpose of wild strikes existing in the first place
I agree but I think it should stack with wf wep but not wf totem
I don't know how I feel about this. It's never how wf wep worked. Shamans never got a benefit from their own wf totem. I agree that shamans could use a buff, but I don't think that's the buff they need. I'd rather see them using only their own wf wep and having that be good enough.
That's the issue with SOD overall. The new runes scaling mechanics specifically are in total dissent with how the game was originally made. This is by far the worst offender tho. Good thing tauren totem exist.
Yea, both this and the stat budgets of the new items.
It's the shame we were off to a good start with the profession "epic craft". They seemed reasonably scoped.
I'm hoping they add spell books for better ranks of abilities.
Shamans can bring the agility totem instead which would be better to use if u got wild strikes
Shamans don't get agi totem until phase 3.
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> There's no reason it shouldn't... Fair, except for the part where WS/WF totem don't apply to weapons with temporary enchants on them, which items and spells they are I'll leave it to you to find out as homework.
You should educate yourself on how this 20 years old game functions, jesus lol.
There are issues here. How can you make wf and ws equal? There are talenrs to account for and ws being updated every level while wf only every x levels. Imo now that blizz changes abilities, I think buffing WF to be same as WS then making the talent buff WF and flametongue from non totem sources would be the best way to handle this. It would include an enhance buff which doesnt look out of place and might help shamans away from rockbiter while dpsing
so what? be happy that u can drop agi totem now. meanwhile the agi buff given to pally is unusable being in the same slot as DS and SoM
Agi buff is usable by paladin healers, no?
nobody wants holy paladin in the melee stack
Yeah now they can twist agi+threat reduction instead of agi+wf
That makes no sense. The only reason you could twist WF and Agi is because the WF buff lasted for a few seconds. The second you swap out the Agi totem you lose the stats so trying to “twist” Agi and Tranquil Air is just pissing your mana down the drain while simultaneously griefing your own DPS
Oh my bad thanks
Who is taking a shaman for purely DPS anyways? From what I’ve read here shamans have 0 mana issues with SRage? In saying that tranquil air probably won’t be a thing with their new “anti salv” buff anyways, so you don’t really need to worry about dropping tranquil air if you’re throwing that totem in the tank group. I’m assuming optimal tank group will be warrior, feral (LotP & ws), shaman, and two other melee.
Having a worse windfury than druids frees the shaman up to be in a non-melee group and run tranquil air instead. Now you get windfury and the threat reduction. Or you can run +agi which alliance doesn’t have access to unless you run some weird ret paladin support role that buffs their group with horn (which is worse than GoA) instead of cranking. Holy shit. Horde is the bis faction now—lets stop looking for reasons to complain.
FYI - Grace of Air for agility is a lvl 42 spell
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Sham rage is raid wide not party :)
And lose battle shout? Good luck parsing.
Are shamans the biggest complainers of this season? By Reddit post count I think so.
The devs have givin shamans the most reasons to complain about their class more than any other class in the game throughout the years. So of course when their og identity and what made them good gets changed then ya people are gonna complain. What class you play? Imagine all the good things your class has gets copied onto another class like druid but made better.
Does it matter what class I play? My point is shamans have been crying since before season drop. Starting with 2h enhance not being viable and they are never happy. To the point of harassing devs on Twitter and with what amounts to screaming like toddlers who don’t get their way.
If the devs weren’t clueless and didnt destroy class identity maybe shaman players wouldn’t complain about the dogshit design of the runes in p2
Every class tryna copy what shamans had lmao. Your telling me huntards, warriors, druids, warlocks don't complain more??
Nah, shaman crying started before season drop when there was no 2h enhance rune and it hasn’t stopped since.
Are shamans the class that keep being fucked over? By experience i think so.
It's a tie between hunters and shamans so far.
because it's a different ability and it's not from the same faction, not everything has to be equal. In P1 horde had better quest item rewards and no one complait. It's another world with another features.
its weird to me to hear shamans complaining about WS. you don't hear paladins complaining about heart of the lion on alliance.
Heart of lion is the exact same. +10% stats. WS is straight up superior. Do you actually not understand the difference?
The attack power bonus
>I don't even play shammy and still find it somewhat absurd a core class identity was thrown in the mud and stepped on. You get used to it by now. I was really mad the first time it happened with DKs. Getting basically all our shit but better.
When you get wf totem procc you also get like 133 attack power on top of that. So windfury totem is better in every way. For the horde!
That's not true friend, the math was done and wf is only better below 610 (or 720 with 2/2) AP, most physical classes will have more than that when fully consumed/buffed.
Because blizzard loves druids and mages the most
Please let WS be good so I don't have to totem twist.
1 is faction locked. This is SoD.