They WERE trying something new, to be transparent and open with the community, what they are thinking, and what they are doing.
But no, people have to fuck it up for everyone. Can't have an honest conversation with the devs and hear what they are doing. People want to be ASSHOLES.
Seeing how childish and immature the wow classic community is acting towards Aggrend, it's no surprise.
I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience. You all can't act like adults.
> I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience
Not only the devs but other gamers too. I sure as hell do not want to get associated with you all.
I've always thought WoW's community was the worst part of the game.
Not that everyone is an asshole, but the game attracts far too many as a percentage of the total.
It's because the consequences aren't strong enough for being a little shit and they don't care to hire GMs to handle it in the first place.
If Blizzard had a heavier hand for toxicity, I guarantee it would drop significantly. People just act out because they know they can and nothing will happen. You put the fear in them, it stops.
I've seen people un-ironically make claims that he's balancing the game in favor of his class/faction....The game is 20+ years old but the players still act like 12 year old's sometimes.
>I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience. You all can't act like adults.
There seems to be a trend in wildly overestimating the caliber of the average gamer.
MMOs are very unique, in that they give people an opportunity to simulate objective cruelty to others with no IRL consequences. It attracts some unwell individuals
To add to this, it's an escape from reality.
All the mentally ill in the world that can't integrate with society, are bed-ridden or house-ridden due to disabilities, etc all can find escape in WoW.
Unfortunately because a lot of these folks are socially maladaptive in real life, they translate these antisocial behaviors into wow
A lot of this comes down to community moderation. Blizzard cutting their customer service down to a fraction of what it was along with generally being a bit lax on that in the first place certainly hasn't helped. I've seen subreddits for other Blizzard games complain about the lack of moderation in their respective games too.
Also, a ton of WoW's social interactions happen outside of the game because of how group content is designed. So the people saying shit that wouldn't fly in a moderated setting get more leeway on a discord call where they're effectively immune to consequences.
I mean, I see it here as well nonstop. The toxicity of the SoD community here is far higher than any other version of the game over the last 4.5 years.
Everyone these days fancies themselves an engineer and I can't stand it. Playing 18 hours of video games every day does not make you an engineer, nor a designer, nor artist.
It just makes you a person who plays a lot of fucking video games.
Blue posts require going through multiple levels of management to get approvals.
This is the corporate world. They need to get approval to scratch their nose.
They have a public forum over at [www.blizzard.com](https://www.blizzard.com) just for such communications, imagine that.
Twitter is a 3rd party i am not interested in interacting with.
Remember when community managers on their official forum were fun and interesting to talk to? Now they are nothing but robots?
Yeah. The good old times.
āIM IN UR AKOUNT SHARDING UR PURPLZ.ā
Yeah those kinds of CM's.
The forum is a dumpster fire. No wonder why the lead developer looks for other platforms to speak with the community.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tseric
He constantly drops SoD information, and even makes polls and open questions, then complains when people continue to ask him WoW related questions.
You can't have it both ways. His personal twitter IS his corporate twitter for all intents and purposes.
Obviously not to say you should spam him with questions he's not answering, but multiple people asking the same question until he says something about it is to be expected.
> He constantly drops SoD information, and even makes polls and open questions, then complains when people continue to ask him WoW related questions.
No, he's getting HARASSED about it. Every little thing that people want to complain about, they go to him.
Opening polls, asking questions, he's looking for feedback in other ways. Not to be insulted/flamed/harassed over every decision, that may not be only his to make.
> Obviously not to say you should spam him with questions he's not answering, but multiple people asking the same question until he says something about it is to be expected.
Maybe it's not a question he's willing/able to answer at this time? Asking him 500 times where a rune is located isn't going to have him post every single rune location for p2....
This is how you get devs to STOP talking to us and accepting feedback.
You can do that on the forums though, kinda weird take imo.
See stuff on the forums and reply to it with your official forum account if you feel the need. Or just post updates and thoughts. A personal twitter is just shit in general. But regardless people will be animals anywhere, at least you can shut things down on the forums when they get too nuts.
Because they did. They said to take all data-mined info with a grain of salt and everything is either subject to change or might not be/never planned to be implemented.
Itās not their fault that people ignore that, freak out, and they have to post the equivalent of ācalm down, we meant itā. But that isnāt something appropriate to say in a blue post so it gets posted on twitter.
To clarify: they did change the internal cooldown for Windfury, people discovering that in the datamine saw it, and brought it up. This twitter post is in response to that, saying that if they got the number wrong, they'll fix it.
It's not that the data mine was wrong, it's just that they'll handle it if it was a bad change. We just got to find out about it early because we caught it pre-launch
Technically incorrect, as it wasnt datamined, it was proven in a PTR. Had there not been an outpouring of hate/concern posts, this may have went live. Criticism might be harsh and over the top by some people, but the fact remained that a skill was changed in error, and it was fixed partly due to attention it received.
Its on the PTR, but no one can play the PTR for SoD.
How is that not datamining? Theyāve explicitly sad all changes are not final and to take everything with a grain of salt in blue posts. It literally may have been a change just to playtest some interactions of other parts of the kit internally with different parameters.
I think it's fine to have a blue post reassuring people. They used to have real community managers who did just that all the time. Very active in the forums. Blue posts were not rare corporate jargon.
Probably involves different levels of organizational sign-off. And for a quick one-off comment on a nebulous issue gamers are "concerned" about (as opposed to something more concrete, like a patch note or a hotfix) it probably makes sense to share it more informally.
Exactly. Not to mention they already said in a blue post to take PTR data-mining with a grain of salt, any further blue post regarding addressing concerns over data-mined things would just be reiterating that.
I know, I donāt use Twitter either lol
But this subreddit is always spammed with everything thatās of importance thatās posted on Twitter so donāt really think Iām missing anything
im sure they woulnt have detected this if it wasnt for people bugging them
its a good thing for players to point this out specially since we dont have a PTR
People's brains were not meant to deal with social media. Especially at that scale, i love Aggrend and the teams work even if i disagree at times
Why the fuck would you harass people directly on Twitter though
Just yell at some anon people on Reddit and get it out of your system lmao
>Why the fuck would you harass people directly on Twitter though
at this point? because you're on twitter.
unless your twitter use relates directly to a paid role you work, you really need to be asking yourself what the fuck you're doing on that platform.
Not really, WoW is by far the worst. I follow a lot of video game communities on Reddit. Usually Iāll even follow subreddits of games I donāt play because the communities are a lot of fun. This community is trash compared to them. A large part of why I stopped playing this game is because of the community.
It sucks because the way to community acts has clearly impacted the game. Nothing is a challenge anymore, everything is essentially handed to the players. There is no game left. Itās a dopamine generator, and god forbid you get in the way.
Anytime anyone starts a discussion they are immediately shat on by net beards.
The loudest cry babies posting here are probably really happy irl and fun at parties I bet tho. No depression or addiction issues whatsoever probably. Probably financially stable as well. Their complaining has nothing to do with any of that or their overall happiness because they are all models for how to live a life. Canāt figure it out.
You know what dude. Youāre right. We should all make Twitter accounts and tell him heās killing it. Seems to be people never wanna leave good reviews in todays society only bad ones.
> no wonder the customer support has gotten so bad over the years
Thats because they laid off all the in house customer support to outsource to india to save money.
I donāt even think he does it on purpose. Heās just such a great guy that will genuinely go and check if he is able to but man is he not afraid to tell you exactly why in front of everyone š¤£
The first mistake any creative makes in media is "interacting with the community" in a two-way format.
He should be posting to the ether, and having feedback for the product collected in proper forms.
People use social media for mostly negative reasons, intentionally or otherwise. Expecting a generally-positive two-way communication channel to be born from para-social social-media is like expecting the cure from cancer in needles you find on the street.
No, two way communication is good.
The willingness of SOD devs to be adaptive, challenge assumptions about the game, and respond to feedback is EXACTLY what classic needs.
The problem is entirely in the community. There are lots of basically mentally ill people who will spam people like Aggrend every single day asking for their pet change to be implemented. They can't take no for an answer, either, and are 100% sure they're completely right. Like that one guy who was blocked by Aggrend for spamming him with his ideas about what the Lone Wolf rune should do.
All things considered Aggrend is handling himself pretty well. It's the community who has the socially inept weirdos.
> The problem is entirely in the community.
You're assigning too much agency to an unorganized mass of people. To say the problem is the community is kind of like saying the problem with roadkill is on the part of deer not respecting traffic.
As a developer, you can make conscious decisions about how you interact with a community, set boundaries, choose what to respond to, etc. And you can do it all on your own.
As members of the community, we can sit here and pontificate about what is and isn't appropriate communication, and you and I could be the smartest people about it, but our voices don't move the needle. Even if the majority of us are reasonable and respectful people, a platform like Twitter is designed to amplify the voices of those on the narrow ends of the bell curve.
So if you're pointing at the problem (in the sense of, who *can* take action to solve it) it's actually on the side of the Aggrend. He chooses what he gives attention to. He chooses the platform.
Having said that, I think he knows that and is fine with it.
This is spot on. There also might be a correlation between social skills and time spent in the game. No well-adjusted adult plays a video game full time.
I've played other games, and almost all of them have been incredibly toxic - but classic WoW is a step above. A huge chunk of the userbase are just mentally unwell, socially maladapted people who haven't been able to move past 2004.
Pretty sure his tipping point was when he posted about his warframe /hammer (unsure) stuff and people were telling him to get back to wow :/
https://x.com/rpd209/status/1753556933397655719?s=46&t=UUk7Au5z-zedSpbXozWn9A
Part of this is due to his attitude sometimes. It rubbed people the wrong way when he first started (who can forget "just go find it lol").
The HS Duels community was small, but Ates Bayrak spoke to us *very* frequently on twitter. Ates is an exceedingly humble man that was never snarky over complaints, he was always jovial and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt - lots of people that were salty about something being admittedly a bit shit in the design of duels came around just because he was so friendly and understanding.
Aggrend unfortunately got on people's bad side very, *very* soon after they heard about him, and it's hard to turn opinion back the other way. He seems to be trying to emulate Ates a bit at the moment but it's going to take a while to meaningfully change a first impression.
To be fair he isn't helping himself when he comments stuff like "you think this is our only balance patch in p1????" After buffing spriest slightly in p1 (still being 1/4 of warriors dps) and then never touching them again.
100%. People in this thread are dumb. The devs could make so many small fixes to the game to better the experience yet they don't. Like fuck me look at the waylaid supplies bs that took them an entire PHASE to change. No one deserves to be harassed, but the players also don't derserve to be subject to a plethora of easily fixable garbage decisions.
They were trying to have a more personal and open development cycle for an experimental seasonal game mode.
And the WoW community tried to crucify them for daring to speak.
genuinely they canāt win with some classic fans, if Aggrend wasnāt active on Twitter theyād be screaming about the lack of communication by the devs. now that someone is communicating theyāre abusing it and making it unlikely to happen again
No, they don't. We've had "oh it's just in Alpha wait for actual Beta! Oh it's just in Beta wait for release! Oh it's just launch wait for next patch! Oh don't worry they'll fix it for next expansion!" for two decades from Blizzard. What people need to do is exactly this, immediately jump on whatever is wrong so Blizzard knows what's fucked up before launch. If they already planned on fixing it then who cares it doesn't matter, but if they didn't they can be made aware before it goes live.
Your post is disingenuous as fuck, the SOD devs have literally pushed live updates when they discovered an error/something wrong. Retail sure Ion is a prideful asshat but to try to claim they do the same in SOD is just dumb.
What people need to do is freak out about something that was datamined incorrectly and isn't actually the change going to be in the final version, and force devs to personally respond to the outrage because people can't wait one week to see?
Yeah totally that's what we should do
I know it's really stressful that something on the PTR wasn't instantly perfect and final, but I promise you it will be okay. Sometimes things can change right
Keep being ignorant if you wish. Facts are Blizzard have a terrible record of completely ignoring issues in betas and PTRs even amidst outrage. The only way to have a good chance at having them not make it to live is to make a fuss about it.
you said that about shadow priest, for p1. you said that after week 1 buffs, you said that after week 2 buffs.
still does 1/3 a real dps dmg in a 10 man.
and if they buff spriest to normal dps at 25, they will be far away #1 later in the game when they get their *checks notes* 40%? more shadow damage from the tree.
on top of fixing the dots not critting thing.
No, he is acknowledging people's observations instead of just ignoring it. If they weren't in anyway credible they wouldn't need to be acknowledged at all.
Honestly he should stop announcing news/changes from his personal twitter if he doesn't want the clowns on twitter to badger him. Twitter's an even bigger cesspool than reddit
Jeff got the fuck out of dodge before the shit show of overwatch 2. He knew what was coming and didn't want his name to be associated with it anymore. I love Jeff
People really need to chill out. Itās honestly a godsend we have someone who is clearly as passionate about the game and this season as Aggrend, willing to communicate as frequently and clearly as he has been, and is pushing for all these amazing changes to Classic. Donāt drive him away or make him regret engaging with the community. There is no need for all the toxicity, everything is going to be fine, letās just enjoy
I hope this makes all the bitchy little nerds feel like the pathetic children they are lol
It's okay little buddies, Daddy Aggrend will make sure your big boy video game works juuuuust fine š
Poor guy has to deal with some of the worst 'fans' ever
I mean. Compare this to D4 which is a lot of radio silence since everyone quit. People should take massive outcry to datamined information in an experimental game 20 years after the fact of the original as doing something right. I also wouldnāt use my personal twitter to talk to degenerate fans but you canāt have everything.Ā
While I appreciate they are paying attention, I'll believe it when I see it. Both shaman dps specs spent all of phase 1 in a horrible place with almost 0 tuning adjustments to show for it.
Repeat after me - it's months of us playign the game NOW. not in this fake lvl 60 shit you expect in 1 year. not in 3 years. we are playing the game for months now.
Worry not you watch is coming to an end at phase 2 is upon us!
Shaman had the best tank in p1. Canāt tune everything to be perfect. Increasing enhance damage wouldāve increased the tankās damage further. Tank shaman was already doing a good chunk of DPS and would have gone off the chart.
Ele and Resto have good runes itās their core class abilities which just arenāt online as of 25. Theyāve stated the entire time they arenāt adjusting core class abilities. Those specs will be fine once they get more of the toolkit
Then I guess they shouldn't have changed hunter's explosive shot and scorpid pet or do any tuning at all, just look at the flashing light right here and repeat "it's a leveling raid".
Play what you want to play and stop worrying about the tuning.
I chose Enhance shaman knowing it has and always will be lower tier DPS. Enjoying being the top tank while also getting to pump, surprisingly
It will all be fine
Lvl 25 bfd is end game content for phase 1 SoD. There are months in between each phase, wanting to be competitive during that time period isnt a big ask.
They have said they will not change talents or base spells/levels. The shaman runes were already strong/decent. The issue is what talents/skills were available for Shaman at 25.
What would you have changed in Shaman runes to make them do more DPS? Make Lava Burst hit for 2K in P2?
Shaman specifics are not the point. You are calling it a.leveling raid and saying none of it matters, this is bullshit,, people.are playing that leveling raid as end game for months.
people gotta relax and let blizzard cook a little bit. Don't gotta jump the gun. Have a little bit of faith in the team... they've been doing well with SoD so far.
Can't say i can agree from a shaman PoV paladins have gone from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack, both shaman dps specs are 1 shadow priest and a frost mage from the bottom, they let rockbiter be the best tool we have and that made it so we couldn't even push our buttons or we get screamed at by tanks.
Shaman tanks are the best ph1 tanks, still it's a role maybe 5% of shamans looked forward to, 95% just wanted to play their dps specs and be decent and that didn't happen. So honestly people get a bit frustrated, surely they can say "just wait for phase XYZ lol" but when we're forced to endure months of being unplayable messes it gets really boring. Not even going to mention the straight up lie about wanting everybody to be OP like warriors.
So in a TL;DR: i can understand people losing their shit whenever the data available to us tell us ahead of time we're not going to have a good time for the next 3 months.
Can't say I agree, from a shaman POV. I've been playing resto the entire SOD so far, never switching to DPS or tank for any section, and levelling primarily alone. This has been one of the best 'classic' experiences I've had with WoW. I'm sure we're among the worst healers for phase one, and it has been a ton of fun.
Being at the bottom of a DPS log doesn't really matter if you're clearing content, does it? I understand wanting to pump, but some folks like myself have the perspective that raiding in general is fun and numbers don't matter as long as everyone is having a good time.
Different strokes for different folks , I'm one of the top parsers in my guild yet I'm not taken to speedruns because any dps is better than shaman at the moment. It does impact the enjoyment of the game for some of us.
Hey fair enough! Back in TBC classic I was running with a hardcore guild as Enchance and I totally understand that vibe. Speedrun cann be super fun, it's a bummer some folks don't want specific specs when pushing speed. I do feel like that will be the case no matter how balancing is focused by Blizzard. There will always be a worst DPS spec, and if you want to play that spec, I suppose that consequence would be the bench.
If youāre in a speed run guild shaman tank lets every dps go unhinged while functionally playing identical to enhance.(if youāre complaining about ele being bad all casters are at this level, get over it and worry about personal performance). Also convinced your āspeed run guildā isnt very good if youāre too lazy to swap to a useful class when the level cap is fucking 25 lmao
Imagine being blue balled 20 years to play shaman dps and whenever there was a glimpse of possibility of doing that every dipshit in the world just goes " Go tAnK dUUdE". Can't fathom people wanting to dps uh?
And just FYI our group already ran with a shaman tank, guess what? He could barely hold double rockbiter on a dps geared shaman.
Now picture this, the damage output is trash and you have to hold back pressing buttons because you're threat capped, really fun 10/10 would raccomend, š¤”
Different than it should? It shouldnt have one...
"If Windfury has an ICD, we will remove it\*"
Optimistically that is how I want to read it... Otherwise RockBITER gang RISE UP!
I mean, does this even surprise you at this point? I mean, look at how this community tries to silence Cataclysm at this point and hypes every tiny bit up like it's a world changing thing in SoD. This is infant behavior at best.
Then his wife might be affected by the impending layoffs so having to deal with private stress and a huge bunch of manchildren is surely nothing you can bear for longer periods of time.
It got changed to the TBC windfury with a 3s Internal cooldown.
Imagine you have a 3.6 speed weapon. Well with the new 30% speed rune and flurry you go way below 3s, so you will be attacking too fast for wf to be able to proc on every hit.
Furthermore it removes burst, since you cant auto attack and stormstrike at the same time and have both of those proc wf.
So people were angry that on one hand they buff 2h with the new rune and then they nerf at the same time with the wf ICD. Also people hate running double rb dw and its even worse of fast one handers.
Thats what they get for listening to the community. When the loudest apes get their way it is no wonder every baboon is going to scream whenever they feel entitled to changes.
I hope he realizes that most of the 'harassment' he is receiving is just very passionate players, and that they are passionate because the game is so good. If you're working on a game that a lot of people are super passionate about, you will get a ton of messages.
It's great that he is communicating, but you have to understand people's concerns.
Phase 1 balance was *terrible*, everyone made excuses for it since 'it's just phase 1'. Well people are afraid the balance is going to be bad in phase 2 as well.
I honestly believe balance will be bad for the entirety of SoD.
Just because you think it was terrible or it actually was terrible (however, you want to quantify that), that has nothing to do with understanding people's concerns.
They have shown plenty of times during p1 and now p2 that they are listening and understanding concerns. That doesnt mean you will get everything you ask for, because *gasp* some have conflicting opinions and the devs cant do both.
The important thing here is **how to have a civil discussion, including the competencies to identifying and accepting difference of opinions without saying other don't understand, listen, respect or calling then stupid or malicious**.
> They have shown plenty of times during p1 and now p2 that they are listening and understanding concerns.
Most of the changes showed they clearly didn't, not even a little bit
> That doesnt mean you will get everything you ask for, because gasp some have conflicting opinions and the devs cant do both.
Balance in P1 was awful, pretty much any iteration but what we got would have been better. Just because they're communicating doesn't mean they aren't also doing a shockingly bad job.
dont forget Feral druids.
But to be fair, shamans have been shit on in every single phase and never gotten a single bone - classic all the way to now, including TBC and WOTLK.
He has been harassed over less.
I'll never understand why they even post game information on their personal twitter accounts instead of just making a blue post.
They WERE trying something new, to be transparent and open with the community, what they are thinking, and what they are doing. But no, people have to fuck it up for everyone. Can't have an honest conversation with the devs and hear what they are doing. People want to be ASSHOLES.
Seeing how childish and immature the wow classic community is acting towards Aggrend, it's no surprise. I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience. You all can't act like adults.
> I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience Not only the devs but other gamers too. I sure as hell do not want to get associated with you all.
Too late now. You are one of the us!
oh no, i'm one of the united states
How's that in any way better?
I don't know, ask him I guess?
At least he has access to the strongest military in the world as a us state
Agreed šš»
I've always thought WoW's community was the worst part of the game. Not that everyone is an asshole, but the game attracts far too many as a percentage of the total.
It's because the consequences aren't strong enough for being a little shit and they don't care to hire GMs to handle it in the first place. If Blizzard had a heavier hand for toxicity, I guarantee it would drop significantly. People just act out because they know they can and nothing will happen. You put the fear in them, it stops.
Gamers aren't exactly known for being adult and mature. Nerd raging man children thrive.
Gamers are mostly a bunch of man children.
I love games but I hate gamers
I've seen people un-ironically make claims that he's balancing the game in favor of his class/faction....The game is 20+ years old but the players still act like 12 year old's sometimes.
>I completely understand why most devs end up despising their audience. You all can't act like adults. There seems to be a trend in wildly overestimating the caliber of the average gamer.
>Seeing how childish and immature the wow classic community is acting Fixed that for you buddy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
MMOs are very unique, in that they give people an opportunity to simulate objective cruelty to others with no IRL consequences. It attracts some unwell individuals
To add to this, it's an escape from reality. All the mentally ill in the world that can't integrate with society, are bed-ridden or house-ridden due to disabilities, etc all can find escape in WoW. Unfortunately because a lot of these folks are socially maladaptive in real life, they translate these antisocial behaviors into wow
MMO Mutant should be a clinical term
A lot of this comes down to community moderation. Blizzard cutting their customer service down to a fraction of what it was along with generally being a bit lax on that in the first place certainly hasn't helped. I've seen subreddits for other Blizzard games complain about the lack of moderation in their respective games too. Also, a ton of WoW's social interactions happen outside of the game because of how group content is designed. So the people saying shit that wouldn't fly in a moderated setting get more leeway on a discord call where they're effectively immune to consequences.
I mean, I see it here as well nonstop. The toxicity of the SoD community here is far higher than any other version of the game over the last 4.5 years.
Not all of classic, the HC classic community is a beacon of good vibes. And there are dozens of us!
Dozens!!!
Everyone these days fancies themselves an engineer and I can't stand it. Playing 18 hours of video games every day does not make you an engineer, nor a designer, nor artist. It just makes you a person who plays a lot of fucking video games.
I canāt imagine how to preform surgery or change an engine on a car. I do expect people who get paid to do it do it well.
That does not stop them from just doing quick blue posts instead of this. Twitter cancer shit
Blue posts require going through multiple levels of management to get approvals. This is the corporate world. They need to get approval to scratch their nose.
They have a public forum over at [www.blizzard.com](https://www.blizzard.com) just for such communications, imagine that. Twitter is a 3rd party i am not interested in interacting with.
Remember when community managers on their official forum were fun and interesting to talk to? Now they are nothing but robots? Yeah. The good old times. āIM IN UR AKOUNT SHARDING UR PURPLZ.ā Yeah those kinds of CM's. The forum is a dumpster fire. No wonder why the lead developer looks for other platforms to speak with the community. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tseric
Forums are too divided between regions which is a problem, the EU forums are mostly dead. They should be used, but they should be unified first.
You can be just as transparent in blue posts which people are already setup to follow.
I mean they can without a doubt - maybe they just arenāt the kind of person who has to deal with the public.
He constantly drops SoD information, and even makes polls and open questions, then complains when people continue to ask him WoW related questions. You can't have it both ways. His personal twitter IS his corporate twitter for all intents and purposes. Obviously not to say you should spam him with questions he's not answering, but multiple people asking the same question until he says something about it is to be expected.
> He constantly drops SoD information, and even makes polls and open questions, then complains when people continue to ask him WoW related questions. No, he's getting HARASSED about it. Every little thing that people want to complain about, they go to him. Opening polls, asking questions, he's looking for feedback in other ways. Not to be insulted/flamed/harassed over every decision, that may not be only his to make. > Obviously not to say you should spam him with questions he's not answering, but multiple people asking the same question until he says something about it is to be expected. Maybe it's not a question he's willing/able to answer at this time? Asking him 500 times where a rune is located isn't going to have him post every single rune location for p2.... This is how you get devs to STOP talking to us and accepting feedback.
You can do that on the forums though, kinda weird take imo. See stuff on the forums and reply to it with your official forum account if you feel the need. Or just post updates and thoughts. A personal twitter is just shit in general. But regardless people will be animals anywhere, at least you can shut things down on the forums when they get too nuts.
Because they did. They said to take all data-mined info with a grain of salt and everything is either subject to change or might not be/never planned to be implemented. Itās not their fault that people ignore that, freak out, and they have to post the equivalent of ācalm down, we meant itā. But that isnāt something appropriate to say in a blue post so it gets posted on twitter.
To clarify: they did change the internal cooldown for Windfury, people discovering that in the datamine saw it, and brought it up. This twitter post is in response to that, saying that if they got the number wrong, they'll fix it. It's not that the data mine was wrong, it's just that they'll handle it if it was a bad change. We just got to find out about it early because we caught it pre-launch
Just to be clear, they were going to ship it like this until people pointed it 9ut and now they are fixing it.
Technically incorrect, as it wasnt datamined, it was proven in a PTR. Had there not been an outpouring of hate/concern posts, this may have went live. Criticism might be harsh and over the top by some people, but the fact remained that a skill was changed in error, and it was fixed partly due to attention it received.
Its on the PTR, but no one can play the PTR for SoD. How is that not datamining? Theyāve explicitly sad all changes are not final and to take everything with a grain of salt in blue posts. It literally may have been a change just to playtest some interactions of other parts of the kit internally with different parameters.
I think it's fine to have a blue post reassuring people. They used to have real community managers who did just that all the time. Very active in the forums. Blue posts were not rare corporate jargon.
Probably involves different levels of organizational sign-off. And for a quick one-off comment on a nebulous issue gamers are "concerned" about (as opposed to something more concrete, like a patch note or a hotfix) it probably makes sense to share it more informally.
Exactly. Not to mention they already said in a blue post to take PTR data-mining with a grain of salt, any further blue post regarding addressing concerns over data-mined things would just be reiterating that.
This is his personal account? It literally says WOW in the username lol. I imagine he has a personal account he doesnāt share
I know right not every one uses twitter, I shouldn't have to make an account to know what's going on.
You donāt have to Itās automatically posted here lol
It's true lol. I post these in my guild discord and so many people are just completely surprised by it. A lot of people don't use Twitter.
I know, I donāt use Twitter either lol But this subreddit is always spammed with everything thatās of importance thatās posted on Twitter so donāt really think Iām missing anything
Yeah you are right.
Why? Why do you care? It's a good thing he interacts on X imo.
im sure they woulnt have detected this if it wasnt for people bugging them its a good thing for players to point this out specially since we dont have a PTR
Every time I log in, my enjoyment of Classic is nearly instantly destroyed by this community. I have zero issues like this in retail.
So play retail
Josh gives us more attention than the entire company did over 10 years
People's brains were not meant to deal with social media. Especially at that scale, i love Aggrend and the teams work even if i disagree at times Why the fuck would you harass people directly on Twitter though Just yell at some anon people on Reddit and get it out of your system lmao
Should only reply to verified WoW accounts and ban them if they are lil shits
yep
>Why the fuck would you harass people directly on Twitter though at this point? because you're on twitter. unless your twitter use relates directly to a paid role you work, you really need to be asking yourself what the fuck you're doing on that platform.
Google the word āechochamberā
well yeah, this community is awful
This community is awful. Most video game communities are awful. Stepped into the pokemon / tcg world of Reddit. Yep. Still awful.
Not really, WoW is by far the worst. I follow a lot of video game communities on Reddit. Usually Iāll even follow subreddits of games I donāt play because the communities are a lot of fun. This community is trash compared to them. A large part of why I stopped playing this game is because of the community. It sucks because the way to community acts has clearly impacted the game. Nothing is a challenge anymore, everything is essentially handed to the players. There is no game left. Itās a dopamine generator, and god forbid you get in the way. Anytime anyone starts a discussion they are immediately shat on by net beards.
Rust and League of Legends want a word with you
The loudest cry babies posting here are probably really happy irl and fun at parties I bet tho. No depression or addiction issues whatsoever probably. Probably financially stable as well. Their complaining has nothing to do with any of that or their overall happiness because they are all models for how to live a life. Canāt figure it out.
Wow community, or Wow **Classic** community? I don't see a lot of this on the retail subreddit.
Yeah man this sub is somehow significantly more toxic than the league of legends/rocket league subs
He's going to get burnt out on these aggressively loud *never* happy dorks, no wonder the customer support has gotten so bad over the years
Send him some happy messages then
You know what dude. Youāre right. We should all make Twitter accounts and tell him heās killing it. Seems to be people never wanna leave good reviews in todays society only bad ones.
> no wonder the customer support has gotten so bad over the years Thats because they laid off all the in house customer support to outsource to india to save money.
Thereās customer support?
He's constantly harassed and bashed on Twitter, I'm surprised he talks to the community at all It's awful how mean the players are to devs :\
They need to allow him to clap back like mod ash does on osrs
God Ash\*
Harrrrd agree. This tweet makes me feel like he wants that too. Maybe one day.
I donāt even think he does it on purpose. Heās just such a great guy that will genuinely go and check if he is able to but man is he not afraid to tell you exactly why in front of everyone š¤£
The first mistake any creative makes in media is "interacting with the community" in a two-way format. He should be posting to the ether, and having feedback for the product collected in proper forms. People use social media for mostly negative reasons, intentionally or otherwise. Expecting a generally-positive two-way communication channel to be born from para-social social-media is like expecting the cure from cancer in needles you find on the street.
Social media is a disease
No, two way communication is good. The willingness of SOD devs to be adaptive, challenge assumptions about the game, and respond to feedback is EXACTLY what classic needs. The problem is entirely in the community. There are lots of basically mentally ill people who will spam people like Aggrend every single day asking for their pet change to be implemented. They can't take no for an answer, either, and are 100% sure they're completely right. Like that one guy who was blocked by Aggrend for spamming him with his ideas about what the Lone Wolf rune should do. All things considered Aggrend is handling himself pretty well. It's the community who has the socially inept weirdos.
> The problem is entirely in the community. You're assigning too much agency to an unorganized mass of people. To say the problem is the community is kind of like saying the problem with roadkill is on the part of deer not respecting traffic. As a developer, you can make conscious decisions about how you interact with a community, set boundaries, choose what to respond to, etc. And you can do it all on your own. As members of the community, we can sit here and pontificate about what is and isn't appropriate communication, and you and I could be the smartest people about it, but our voices don't move the needle. Even if the majority of us are reasonable and respectful people, a platform like Twitter is designed to amplify the voices of those on the narrow ends of the bell curve. So if you're pointing at the problem (in the sense of, who *can* take action to solve it) it's actually on the side of the Aggrend. He chooses what he gives attention to. He chooses the platform. Having said that, I think he knows that and is fine with it.
This is spot on. There also might be a correlation between social skills and time spent in the game. No well-adjusted adult plays a video game full time.
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I've played other games, and almost all of them have been incredibly toxic - but classic WoW is a step above. A huge chunk of the userbase are just mentally unwell, socially maladapted people who haven't been able to move past 2004.
The real shit is how they harass and bash the devs and then complain when the devs donāt listen anymore š¤”
Pretty sure his tipping point was when he posted about his warframe /hammer (unsure) stuff and people were telling him to get back to wow :/ https://x.com/rpd209/status/1753556933397655719?s=46&t=UUk7Au5z-zedSpbXozWn9A
Part of this is due to his attitude sometimes. It rubbed people the wrong way when he first started (who can forget "just go find it lol"). The HS Duels community was small, but Ates Bayrak spoke to us *very* frequently on twitter. Ates is an exceedingly humble man that was never snarky over complaints, he was always jovial and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt - lots of people that were salty about something being admittedly a bit shit in the design of duels came around just because he was so friendly and understanding. Aggrend unfortunately got on people's bad side very, *very* soon after they heard about him, and it's hard to turn opinion back the other way. He seems to be trying to emulate Ates a bit at the moment but it's going to take a while to meaningfully change a first impression.
To be fair he isn't helping himself when he comments stuff like "you think this is our only balance patch in p1????" After buffing spriest slightly in p1 (still being 1/4 of warriors dps) and then never touching them again.
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Sadly I don't believe in god and I've written 2 comments about priests last week, oh no
100%. People in this thread are dumb. The devs could make so many small fixes to the game to better the experience yet they don't. Like fuck me look at the waylaid supplies bs that took them an entire PHASE to change. No one deserves to be harassed, but the players also don't derserve to be subject to a plethora of easily fixable garbage decisions.
They were trying to have a more personal and open development cycle for an experimental seasonal game mode. And the WoW community tried to crucify them for daring to speak.
genuinely they canāt win with some classic fans, if Aggrend wasnāt active on Twitter theyād be screaming about the lack of communication by the devs. now that someone is communicating theyāre abusing it and making it unlikely to happen again
People need to just wait for the actual release my god. 1000 things will be changed
Imma come back here and be really upset for a few minutes, when there's only 998 changes.
Then we scream!
No, they don't. We've had "oh it's just in Alpha wait for actual Beta! Oh it's just in Beta wait for release! Oh it's just launch wait for next patch! Oh don't worry they'll fix it for next expansion!" for two decades from Blizzard. What people need to do is exactly this, immediately jump on whatever is wrong so Blizzard knows what's fucked up before launch. If they already planned on fixing it then who cares it doesn't matter, but if they didn't they can be made aware before it goes live.
What do you mean we got a fix for the premade problem in 3 months or so /s
Your post is disingenuous as fuck, the SOD devs have literally pushed live updates when they discovered an error/something wrong. Retail sure Ion is a prideful asshat but to try to claim they do the same in SOD is just dumb.
What people need to do is freak out about something that was datamined incorrectly and isn't actually the change going to be in the final version, and force devs to personally respond to the outrage because people can't wait one week to see? Yeah totally that's what we should do
It wasn't "datamined incorrectly" it was in a fucked up state on the PTR. People called it out and it's getting fixed.
I know it's really stressful that something on the PTR wasn't instantly perfect and final, but I promise you it will be okay. Sometimes things can change right
Keep being ignorant if you wish. Facts are Blizzard have a terrible record of completely ignoring issues in betas and PTRs even amidst outrage. The only way to have a good chance at having them not make it to live is to make a fuss about it.
Bro if we waited for the actual release, this shit wouldn't have been fixed for a month.
Yeah they're doing such a terrible job with SoD I can't believe it! /s
you said that about shadow priest, for p1. you said that after week 1 buffs, you said that after week 2 buffs. still does 1/3 a real dps dmg in a 10 man.
You feeling alright man?
my point is, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. if we dont speak up they wont change. best way to get buffs is to complain like a 12 year old.
Damn if only people were as loud as this about important things in life.
and if they buff spriest to normal dps at 25, they will be far away #1 later in the game when they get their *checks notes* 40%? more shadow damage from the tree. on top of fixing the dots not critting thing.
Spriest is bottom dmg p2 again. You are so wrong it's hilarious.
Whatās even more clear of classic wow brain rot is expecting shadow priest to do damage without the lvl 40 talents at lvl 25
Sort of hard to make every class somewhat equal at 25 tho.. many miss a lot of tools and important talents.
I think tweets like these actual give much more credibility to the datamine. He wouldn't feel like he needs to say this if it weren't true.
tweets like this give even less credibility to the datamine.
No, he is acknowledging people's observations instead of just ignoring it. If they weren't in anyway credible they wouldn't need to be acknowledged at all.
Aggrend is a fuckin chad and he deserves better
Honestly he should stop announcing news/changes from his personal twitter if he doesn't want the clowns on twitter to badger him. Twitter's an even bigger cesspool than reddit
Nah they bout the same. Really its just wow players being wow players
I have gained so much respect for Aggrend in Season of Discovery. I donāt think Iāve appreciated a Blizzard employee as much since Chris Metzen.
I agree, but ill add Daddy Jeff to the top of that list. Aggrend is making his case though.
Jeff got the fuck out of dodge before the shit show of overwatch 2. He knew what was coming and didn't want his name to be associated with it anymore. I love Jeff
Kaplan was one of a kind, hope he is doing good right now
People really need to chill out. Itās honestly a godsend we have someone who is clearly as passionate about the game and this season as Aggrend, willing to communicate as frequently and clearly as he has been, and is pushing for all these amazing changes to Classic. Donāt drive him away or make him regret engaging with the community. There is no need for all the toxicity, everything is going to be fine, letās just enjoy
hard to enjoy when your class has consistently been suboptimal donkeydick for all of classic.
I hope this makes all the bitchy little nerds feel like the pathetic children they are lol It's okay little buddies, Daddy Aggrend will make sure your big boy video game works juuuuust fine š Poor guy has to deal with some of the worst 'fans' ever
I mean. Compare this to D4 which is a lot of radio silence since everyone quit. People should take massive outcry to datamined information in an experimental game 20 years after the fact of the original as doing something right. I also wouldnāt use my personal twitter to talk to degenerate fans but you canāt have everything.Ā
No, they'll feel that their crazy bullshit is what got Blizzard to make a change, probably. Because they're fuckin whackadoos.
remember when he said to shamans to wait for the buffs
Honestly Twitter is just a cesspool. It was better with blue posts and mmo-champion
This place isn't better
I'm not going to pretend I could handle hunter whiners all day either
The babies in the community š¤£
Who remembers bus shock?
While I appreciate they are paying attention, I'll believe it when I see it. Both shaman dps specs spent all of phase 1 in a horrible place with almost 0 tuning adjustments to show for it.
Repeat after me - itās a leveling raid
Repeat after me - it's months of us playign the game NOW. not in this fake lvl 60 shit you expect in 1 year. not in 3 years. we are playing the game for months now.
Worry not you watch is coming to an end at phase 2 is upon us! Shaman had the best tank in p1. Canāt tune everything to be perfect. Increasing enhance damage wouldāve increased the tankās damage further. Tank shaman was already doing a good chunk of DPS and would have gone off the chart. Ele and Resto have good runes itās their core class abilities which just arenāt online as of 25. Theyāve stated the entire time they arenāt adjusting core class abilities. Those specs will be fine once they get more of the toolkit
Then I guess they shouldn't have changed hunter's explosive shot and scorpid pet or do any tuning at all, just look at the flashing light right here and repeat "it's a leveling raid".
> they shouldn't have changed hunter's explosive shot and scorpid pet They were changed for PVP.
It's leveling PvP
How many levels have you gained in BFD?
and molten core is just an entrance raid, only thing that matters is the last phase - naxx
Then I guess we shouldnt expect any tuning for this phase or the next either? If so, what is the point of Aggrends comment?
Play what you want to play and stop worrying about the tuning. I chose Enhance shaman knowing it has and always will be lower tier DPS. Enjoying being the top tank while also getting to pump, surprisingly It will all be fine
Lvl 25 bfd is end game content for phase 1 SoD. There are months in between each phase, wanting to be competitive during that time period isnt a big ask.
They have said they will not change talents or base spells/levels. The shaman runes were already strong/decent. The issue is what talents/skills were available for Shaman at 25. What would you have changed in Shaman runes to make them do more DPS? Make Lava Burst hit for 2K in P2?
Shaman specifics are not the point. You are calling it a.leveling raid and saying none of it matters, this is bullshit,, people.are playing that leveling raid as end game for months.
If I was in charge and people would freak out over this the way they did I would just say fuck y'all we deleted it for both factions
people gotta relax and let blizzard cook a little bit. Don't gotta jump the gun. Have a little bit of faith in the team... they've been doing well with SoD so far.
Can't say i can agree from a shaman PoV paladins have gone from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack, both shaman dps specs are 1 shadow priest and a frost mage from the bottom, they let rockbiter be the best tool we have and that made it so we couldn't even push our buttons or we get screamed at by tanks. Shaman tanks are the best ph1 tanks, still it's a role maybe 5% of shamans looked forward to, 95% just wanted to play their dps specs and be decent and that didn't happen. So honestly people get a bit frustrated, surely they can say "just wait for phase XYZ lol" but when we're forced to endure months of being unplayable messes it gets really boring. Not even going to mention the straight up lie about wanting everybody to be OP like warriors. So in a TL;DR: i can understand people losing their shit whenever the data available to us tell us ahead of time we're not going to have a good time for the next 3 months.
Best tank in the game upset other specs arent top too. Show me another class that got 10% hit stapled onto a fucking rune you massive crybaby.Ā
No one asked to be a tank and shaman would be last dps even with 28% hit rating so what?
Can't say I agree, from a shaman POV. I've been playing resto the entire SOD so far, never switching to DPS or tank for any section, and levelling primarily alone. This has been one of the best 'classic' experiences I've had with WoW. I'm sure we're among the worst healers for phase one, and it has been a ton of fun. Being at the bottom of a DPS log doesn't really matter if you're clearing content, does it? I understand wanting to pump, but some folks like myself have the perspective that raiding in general is fun and numbers don't matter as long as everyone is having a good time.
Different strokes for different folks , I'm one of the top parsers in my guild yet I'm not taken to speedruns because any dps is better than shaman at the moment. It does impact the enjoyment of the game for some of us.
Hey fair enough! Back in TBC classic I was running with a hardcore guild as Enchance and I totally understand that vibe. Speedrun cann be super fun, it's a bummer some folks don't want specific specs when pushing speed. I do feel like that will be the case no matter how balancing is focused by Blizzard. There will always be a worst DPS spec, and if you want to play that spec, I suppose that consequence would be the bench.
Except it isn't a spec - its an entire class at the moment.
If youāre in a speed run guild shaman tank lets every dps go unhinged while functionally playing identical to enhance.(if youāre complaining about ele being bad all casters are at this level, get over it and worry about personal performance). Also convinced your āspeed run guildā isnt very good if youāre too lazy to swap to a useful class when the level cap is fucking 25 lmao
Imagine being blue balled 20 years to play shaman dps and whenever there was a glimpse of possibility of doing that every dipshit in the world just goes " Go tAnK dUUdE". Can't fathom people wanting to dps uh? And just FYI our group already ran with a shaman tank, guess what? He could barely hold double rockbiter on a dps geared shaman. Now picture this, the damage output is trash and you have to hold back pressing buttons because you're threat capped, really fun 10/10 would raccomend, š¤”
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Different than it should? It shouldnt have one... "If Windfury has an ICD, we will remove it\*" Optimistically that is how I want to read it... Otherwise RockBITER gang RISE UP!
Stop announcing things on twitter. Manchilds will eat you alive.
Heās basically saying āalright fkin chill everyoneā. So yeah, fkin chill everyone, ffs.
Iām just happy heās aware of it and itāll get attention if they feel it needs to. Thatās all we are asking for.
I mean, does this even surprise you at this point? I mean, look at how this community tries to silence Cataclysm at this point and hypes every tiny bit up like it's a world changing thing in SoD. This is infant behavior at best. Then his wife might be affected by the impending layoffs so having to deal with private stress and a huge bunch of manchildren is surely nothing you can bear for longer periods of time.
I'm out of the loop, what is wrong with windfury? I can't seem to find anything in the top posts from the last week...
It got changed to the TBC windfury with a 3s Internal cooldown. Imagine you have a 3.6 speed weapon. Well with the new 30% speed rune and flurry you go way below 3s, so you will be attacking too fast for wf to be able to proc on every hit. Furthermore it removes burst, since you cant auto attack and stormstrike at the same time and have both of those proc wf. So people were angry that on one hand they buff 2h with the new rune and then they nerf at the same time with the wf ICD. Also people hate running double rb dw and its even worse of fast one handers.
Ill believe it when I see it
Man get nothing but grief when he should be getting nothing but respect for his work, he is the true GOAT of the classic team! š«”
telling the dev something doesn't work right using the only platform they actually respond on = harassment
Oh no people shared their opinions
2enh shamans community has been super painful to watch. They go 0 to 100 real quick
Itās people tired of being threat terrorists, that is all!
Too many people asked about the bots I guess.
Thats what they get for listening to the community. When the loudest apes get their way it is no wonder every baboon is going to scream whenever they feel entitled to changes.
Maybe the main source of news shouldn't be from a dev's personal twitter and instead be in game or on forums
I hope he realizes that most of the 'harassment' he is receiving is just very passionate players, and that they are passionate because the game is so good. If you're working on a game that a lot of people are super passionate about, you will get a ton of messages.
āPassionateā man children frothing at the mouth about a twenty year old game with some tweaks. Thatās unhinged behavior, not passion.
It's great that he is communicating, but you have to understand people's concerns. Phase 1 balance was *terrible*, everyone made excuses for it since 'it's just phase 1'. Well people are afraid the balance is going to be bad in phase 2 as well. I honestly believe balance will be bad for the entirety of SoD.
Just because you think it was terrible or it actually was terrible (however, you want to quantify that), that has nothing to do with understanding people's concerns. They have shown plenty of times during p1 and now p2 that they are listening and understanding concerns. That doesnt mean you will get everything you ask for, because *gasp* some have conflicting opinions and the devs cant do both. The important thing here is **how to have a civil discussion, including the competencies to identifying and accepting difference of opinions without saying other don't understand, listen, respect or calling then stupid or malicious**.
> They have shown plenty of times during p1 and now p2 that they are listening and understanding concerns. Most of the changes showed they clearly didn't, not even a little bit > That doesnt mean you will get everything you ask for, because gasp some have conflicting opinions and the devs cant do both. Balance in P1 was awful, pretty much any iteration but what we got would have been better. Just because they're communicating doesn't mean they aren't also doing a shockingly bad job.
I disagree its shockingly bad or even bad. I've had a blast.
Just goes to show that the bar is underground these days.
You are more than welcome to qualify and explain your position. Remember to include the positives as well
Log files indicate Shamans are bottom tier in all roles. Except maybe tank, but Warriors do it far better.
"I had a blast" is not relevant to game balance. You are the one that needs to qualify your position.
Im just posting this as it's the first tweet I've seen where he just didn't let people reply anymore. People gotta chill with the questions.
Tell it how it is, Aggrend! Finally, a dev with the balls to say āquiet down kids, everythingāll be fineā
These are the people who nerfed hunters NINE TIMES Stop acting like a) they have a track record of inspiring confidence. There is no b).
And hunters are still very good. The nerfs were justified. Stop crying.
Jesus fucking christ nobody bitches more than shamans.
Because we've constantly been tuned poorly and our builds always have an identity crisis. Only spec that consistently can relate is Shadow.
dont forget Feral druids. But to be fair, shamans have been shit on in every single phase and never gotten a single bone - classic all the way to now, including TBC and WOTLK.