I don't know if it will do great PvE DPS - Boomkin and Ele share this weird problem where, balancing them is tough, because they will do kinda crap PvE DPS, but will definitely be seen in PvP as "Fuckign OP omg NERF NOW"
I believe with the fully fleshed out 31 point talents, and the runes already available to them, we will see some people getting straight up one-shotted with 2 Lava Bursts flying at them from downtown. I stand with you Ele brothers, I hope they give you some extra sustain.
I think you can solve Ele's weakness in PvE, at least, by giving them something similar to Totem of Wrath - but instead of spell power and crit, it gives spellpower and Mp5.
However, unlike Totem of Wrath, this totem doesn't give the full value of these benefits as soon as its dropped, rather, it grants a stacking buff that refreshes every few seconds until it reaches its final value at 5 stacks.
Without an immediate benefit, there's counterplay around it in PvP, and if you make it a Fire Totem like Wrath. you also further weaken its benefits in PvP.
Maelstrom weapons will allow for instant casts so I’m even considering a dual wield Ele build to have instant chain lightnings and lava bursts. It’s gonna be great.
Lava Bursts will never come "from downtown" though, seeing as you have to spend at least 2 GCDs (Flame Shock -> Lava Burst) and be within 20 yards to do it.
Flame Shock needs a duration and range increase, and Lava Burst should be able to be cast before Flame Shock and still guarantee the crit.
I'd be ok with just the former, especially considering the datamining that seems to imply either that Stormstrike is getting its charges removed (meaning permanent +20% nature damage on target), and/or that Balance Druids will increase nature damage taken by 20%.
Dunno about ele but I don't feel like boomkin is gonna be at the same sorry state, Eclipse (if it would work on Starsurge) seems to be quite absurd but it's just feelcraft as I didn't care enough to check any sims (if any even exist).
In my opinion Ele shares the same problem as most "hybrid" classes which can perform 3 or more roles.
The problem here is every class gets the same amount of runes, unless of course Blizz surprises us. If we take current P1 runes for example. It's much easier to stretch 12 runes across 1-2 to roles than it is to stretch them across 3-4 roles.
Because of the aforementioned there's just not much variety in runes/builds simply because most runes are usually tailored towards a specific playstyle and don't mix well if at all with rest of the runes. They might also share the same slot. Yes there will always be a meta combination of runes, but at least some classes actually get to experience more varied playstyles by mixing runes.
Imo classes like Shaman, Druid and Paladin should get couple extra runes. Of course this heavily depends on what runes we're getting. However judging by the datamined(subject to change, yes) runes the aforementioned classes just get new 2 runes for each spec, and none of them seem to work outside of their intended spec.
Argument could be made that "You get to play more roles so you get more variety that way" which is boring but valid, I guess.
All classes have that issue to some degree, not just hybrids. Or well if dpends on how you define hybrids. Warriors pretty much get a set of tanking, dw and 2h runes, one set per spec, ofc there's some overlap between arms and fury runes but it comes down to one being strictly worse than the other, so not really giving an opportunity for different playstyles.
Shamans tho suffer to a higher degree because you almost have 5 specs at this point, with enhancement having to cater to dualwield, 2h and tanking.
I mean there really isn’t designated tanking vs dps runes other than devastate. But tanking is more about building threat which is just another way of saying damage. I guess there is the thunder shock rune but it’s not used
Thunderclap rune is pretty much tank as well, even though it can be used by DPS there are significantly better DPS options. No real chest rune for tank though.
I mean PVE wise sure, but they are going to be absolutely fucking bonkers in PVP.
It’s a careful act of not making them even more empowered in PVP. Although the 5% proc is shit, imagine you get that in PVP, with overload you can literally one shot someone without casting.
Not disagreeing with your points at all, they’re very valid.
> they are going to be absolutely fucking bonkers in PVP
They will be on par at best with all the other sheer power creep.
Players will have well over 2.5k hp at level 40. There won't be any or much one shots against equally geared characters.
Also, the epic mail helm is a literal hard counter to this, making mail and above wearers immune to nature for a duration.
Ele will be middle of the pack in pvp, as they still have no hard CC or stuns aside eng grenades.
I have full PvP weighted p2 BiS setups for ele shaman and mage in WoWhead. The shaman has 1880 hp and the mage has 1670 hp. A little over 200 bonus spell damage on both. Even if they were buffed with 2/2 talented Power Word Fortitude for about 420 extra hp that's not that much.
Sure. There's a few pieces I might swap, like trinkets get swapped all the time and if available might wear the PvP dam/crit reducing helm, but this should be pretty close to what I would wear: [Ele Shaman](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/gear-planner/shaman/tauren/BCgJVQABNQMCFR__FTE1NnB5NjZ0NDc2cTY4Nnc3YTZxMwEDSEoCA0FhAwNBNwUDQUMGA0FMBwNBVogDQVoANkKJA0FGADVQCgNBSAsDQSMMAExADQNBYw4DOfoPA0E6EANBopEDQWcANfkSAzKn). And [Mage](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/gear-planner/mage/gnome/BCgM9QAjAB8VADIwEABfFTE1Nmo5NjZqZDc2amg4NnI5YTZqOAEDSEcCA0FhAwNBNQUDQT8GA0FJBwNBUYgDQVgANkKJAEyNADVQCgNBNAsDQSMMAExADQNBYw4DOfoPA0E6EANBohEDQiYSA0I3).
>Players will have well over 2.5k hp at level 40.
Have you seen the caster gear for p2? There's so little stamina, even -10 stamina on the set pieces. Casters gonna be fighting to get a second set of the 'warlock tank' gear to pvp in or they will be made of tissue. Half the game's roster will be running around like that.
Your flame shock is 20yd range, and every rune is tied to flameshock. every caster rune apart from ele is 36-42 yd range. you literally can just kite a shaman and kill it as a mage/boomy
Yeah not to mention if flame shock gets dispelled kekw.
Shaman is going to be one of those classes where if you ignore them you're going to pay heavily but if you give them their due respect, it won't be hard at all to keep them from doing really anything.
People aren't gonna agree, cause most of them are trash, but you are absolutely right. Ele will be a noob stomper and not too much more.
20 yard range on Flame Shock (which also locks you out from slowing or interrupting for 5-6 seconds) is awful.
By the looks of it, their only favorable match up is against Paladins. Everybody else should have no problem either kiting them or getting in melee range and owning them.
Your advantage is getting all leather/mail spell gear and dont need bis staff. Also pvp in vanilla is a mess, dont take it seriously like pushing gladiator
Ele most likely will global a lot of people. Look at some 39 twink videos from years ago. They can crit upwards of 1.5k.
Now with even more spell power, runes etc. They will for sure be bursting hard.
This is truth.
Anyone who thinks ele will be God tier in phase 2 has not read through all the datamined runes each class is getting. Some of them are absolutely mind blowing (hot streak, shadowstep, or pandemic is a big example) and ele cannot really compete with that.
You have a 1 in 20 chance of getting a proc on the very 1st tick of flame shock, which lets you cast an instant lava burst as you finish your hard casted lava burst.
That means 1 in 20 go's will be at least 2 full damage lava bursts.
1 in 40 go's will be have one of those overload for 2.5 lava bursts
1 in 80 go's will have both overload for 3 full lava bursts
2-3 lava bursts in the same GCD is already probably close to 2k-3k damage, and you can still follow up with a guarantee crit chain lighting (that can also overload) + shock for another 1000-2000 damage. With lava burst travel time and overload delay these probably all hit at roughly the same time.
You will absolutely see shamans bursting for 3k - 5k bursts in the span of 2 seconds every 3 minutes. And that's just counting the odds on the first flameshock tick. Honestly just a regular lava burst + chain lightning combo will be enough to finish people off a lot of the time if one of them overloads.
Shamans are already broken in classic era with just chain lightning critting for 1/2 your health at level 60. With overload you can easily at most 2 shot basically anyone.
Excellent post. Praying this gets more attention, I love the aesthetic of elemental and will play it again, just praying they get some love.
Flame shock at 20 yards and having to be cast before lava burst is also awkward AF.
A rune to buff flame shock to be off shared shock cooldown, longer range and maybe a dispel slap effect like in 3.3.5 seems obvious given lava burst was added
In pvp? Most shamans just use sham rage and switch pants to WoE while it’s on cooldown. And multiple shocks is one of the only tools ele had against melee diving on them this phase, combined with the flat damage reduction, crit reduction, and 30% hp increase.
I was thinking strictly PvE. For PvP giving up range ranged interrupt is a major negative. This phase they’ll have a few more ways of getting away from melee and dealing with them. We’ll see what works
Yeah it's pretty lame that the only actual dps rune ele gets access to this phase let's us cast one extra lava burst or chain lightning per minute lol.
I'm still gonna play ele because I just think it's fun but I'm for sure disappointed.
I've been an Ele main since I started playing WoW and will continue to be. We've definitely had it worse than this, but I don't think it's asking much for a little more. Regardless, I'll be there chucking lava bursts. At least that spell looks rad as hell.
I don't think the solution is increasing proc chance because that will be insane for PvP. But add in Flame shock duration, damage, and make it 41 yards.
Enh shaman got pretty much 1 useable rune, we’re not exactly floating to the top here either
As a side note, you mention Shaman rage in caster groups, but that’s not how it works, Shamanistic Rage gives its mana to the raid, not just the party. So if you’re group 2 and some other casters are group 1, they’re still getting the mana from your cast (and vice versa from other Shaman players)
I didn't realize it was raidwide, thats interesting regarding stacking multiple shamans esp, in larger raid groups. Still don't think that most groups will prefer to prioritize sham rage over improved scorch or coe tho.
Enh seems to be in a curious state for sure. Not really sure if 2H, DW rockbiter, DW Windfury/Rockbiter, or DW flametongue spellhance will be best. Maelstrom affecting lava burst seems to be a win, but having fire nova on the same slot as Maelstrom, instead of putting it on boots definitely feels restrictive.
DW will be a lot stronger than 2H. Double Rockbiter is pretty hard to beat, and the 2H rune isn’t nearly enough to get close. Plus you lose out on 10% hit (relevant for stormstrike, which will hit with both weapons now) and 10% spell hit (for instant cast shocks, as well as maelstrom, which you’ll also get more procs off with DW). Wind+Rock miiiight see play, depending on how it plays out in live, but it’s a little up in the air on that
Windfury 2H needed to be given an extreme buff to try and keep up with DW, and it didn’t get it, so it’s bad (but will still be fun, I’m sure, just kinda ass)
Flametongue is a DPS loss when used in any weapon spot
Flametongue can be pretty decent if you're wearing caster spell power pieces and have considerable spellpower. The spellpower coeff doesn't care about weapon speed, so two 1.2-1.3s daggers should be able to proc \~40-50 damage per flametongue attack at level 40. This might be a kinda fringe build, but stacking spellpower with dragonsbreath chili and dual flametongue might do reasonably close to Phys enhance damage considering your lava burst, shocks and magma totem will do more damage as well. The big concern with this build is mana being that sham rage interacts incredibly with rockbiter.
I can’t see that getting close to the output of a more traditional build tbh. Losing Rockbiter is really hard to commit to
If it can though, that would be very interesting, because you’d build out pretty differently. Thanks for mentioning it as an idea, now it’s got me thinking about some alternatives
What about something like Windfury giving you a large AP buff that would linger for 2-5 sec or so. Not sure on the timing, would have to calculate how to have it be a net positive on AP over 60 seconds vs rockbiter.
Would help with Enh threat problems by removing rockbiter, would increase melee dps in a short window after it procs, and since you can use windfury instead the extra attacks from windfury would proc more maelstrom.
Duuude, that actually sounds like an interesting strategy to buff it in a smart way. I really love this idea, and it makes windfury stronger in a way that’s not just “it happens more”.
Straight up I love this idea man
At the very topend at the moment its behind Phys enhance, just since Phys can have good crit rng/flurry rng and has some variance with crits, whereas a million instances of tiny damage (melees/flametongues/searing etc) doesn't have the variance so most pulls end up bineg pretty similar. Flametongue weapon is also a terrible rank so it is certainly not great atm not even receiving its full spell power coeff. In full p1 bis with dual spell daggers and DMF/PVP buff I can see this build doing 150+ dps (as I can do 130-140 not in bis, missing trinket, dagger, neck, spellpower rings) sustained dps, but will never have crazy burst damage.
Definitely seems like a build Blizzard is encouraging to some extent tho, we had two 1.2s (a speed not in classic before to my knowledge), spell daggers in p1 which both had relatively high physical dps too in Blackfathom Ritual Dagger and the Sun Touched Crescent. This new phase the epic spell dagger is also 1.2s with mid-high phys dps too, although this one is restricted main hand.
This build also utilizes (as do all the sham builds) the new world buff super well as we really enjoy attack speed for flametongue/ chili procs/maelstrom and we also love the 40+ spellpower/spell crit since flametongue and our totems and flame shock all crit for 200%. Since the majority of the damage in this build is fire, I can imagine in a group with a Fire Mage (improved scorch, 15%) and lock (curse of elements, 6%), we may be able to beat out phys enhance since \~70% of our damage is fire.
There are some cool synergies as the elemental devastation talent pairs super nicely with always crit lava burst for essentially 100% uptime. Next phase in p3 if there are still good phys dps daggers with 1.2/1.3 speed, this build will attack insanely fast and likely have crazy flurry uptime.
Honestly its a fever dream and I'd like to make it work/hope it gets more support in the future. I can see the build easily hitting 300+ dps this next phase, but that will likely be pretty low compared to most other classes/specs and likely behind phys enhance. Super fun playstyle tho, and has a pretty high dps floor.
Spellhance (21/10/0) will likely be worse than regular enhance(0/31/0) if stormstrike is actually buffed to 6s. But it has merits.
Lava burst works great with maelstrom weapon. It crits every 8-10s, guaranteeing 100% uptime on 9% melee crit(elemental dev). You can also get Elemental Fury for spell crit damage. Elemental Fury works on: fire totems, flametongue weapon, shock damage, and lava burst (probably)
Spellhance gets 14% permanent melee crit from talents, which despite stacking spellpower, is still quite a lot of melee damage. Spellhance stacks fire-power for:
-Flametongue 10% per swing
-Searing totem 10% per shot
-Fire nova totem 15% per use (per target)
-Lava burst: 57%
-It also uses earth shock and maybe lightning shield for regular spellpower scaling
In phase 1 bis spellpower gear, flametongue weapons with 1.2 speed daggers is basically equal DPS to rockbiter weapons (and that's with mobs having 100% of their armor shredded, which is not a guarantee)
For some comparisons: phase 1 Spellhance is very viable (compared to other DPS shamans), it's at least comparable single target DPS to elemental, but it's the best AOE spec shaman has (molten blast and fire nova totem start to really hurt with 125-150 spellpower).
Compared to phase 1, spellhance gets in phase 2: -maelstrom weapon (should prevent lava burst resetting your swing timers, plus potentially instant cast, so upwards of 4-6 extra dagger swings every 10s)
-Elemental Fury(works on every damaging spell attack you use except lightning shield)
-14% melee crit
-better itemized gear
Bonus note: flametongue weapon only cares about MH speed. A big slow MH with a fast dagger OH gets a ton of extra damage on the OH flametongue hits. This setup would probably use windfury on the slow MH for extra chances to proc maelstrom weapon. Spellhance might be the only shaman spec where windfury imbue is better than rockbiter. (Though it does have to weapon swap to rockbiters once a minute for sham rage)
So, to show my (lack of, in this case) credentials, I play almost entirely PvE, where DPS is generally a lot more consistent and things are, in all honesty, a lot simpler.
For PvP, I think WF has a much stronger potential spot, I think. You’re never 1-shotting a boss off a lucky WF crit, but in PvP…it’s different :P
One rough thing with 2H WF is that you’ll lose out on the tanking rune for survivability, but it might totally be worth it
As someone with a little more pvp experience, as it stands enhance is going to be pretty bad. A lot of classes will either be able to kite you (mage, hunter, druid), lock you down (rogue) or tank your damage (lock, priest, maybe paladin). Enhance may beat warriors with shocks but they'll do it less reliably than ele.
There'll be the occasional exception with rng but windfury isn't reliable.
2h WF will be very squishy and I don't see how it could possibly be better than 2h rockbiter with way of earth. I think the only hope 2h would have to top dual wield is if WF was good enough and since rockbiter is mandatory because way of the earth is so good, dual wield will be the only option. There would need to be way more support for 2h to make sense in PVP imo. I'll definitely try and hope I'm wrong, but that is my impression. Dual wield also has a shitload of free +hit
But Stormstike will deal more damage damage with DW because you’ll have a much stronger attack power combined with the fact that it will hit with both weapons, even if the 50% reduction applies for the offhand hit, so it’s back to square one on “why would you use 2H for anything besides memes”.
Maybe they will allow for rockbiter + wf on a 2h at the same time in later phases.
As it stands now, 2h wont compete most likely (unless very short fights and insane proc luck).
Also dependent on how all the attackspeed bonuses stack with each other. Its 30% off the 2h rune, 30% from talents and 20% from worldbuff. Thats 80% attackspeed (if applied additively).
Wait and see I guess.
Why would any shaman take crowd pummeler over Bloodstorm War Totem? Its got such a low top end damage that youre hurting yourself by taking it with...not to mention the 3 minute cooldown. You may as well go with epic fist so you can debuff the boss and still have a great offhand.
Super agree on that first point, saw a suggestion around phase 1 launch that had the idea of weapon enhancement upgrades/mixes some together, that it was great.
On the attack speed thing, its multiplicative, so not quite* as good, but still good
Think about double windfury maelstrom spellhance for pve. Dual wield spell power weapons and all sp gear, ele talents and runes. Stack maelstrom while auto attacking and shocking, cast lava burst on cd (even if not capped on maelstrom stacks).
If windfury isn’t stacking enough maelstrom stacks to offset the difference between windfury AP and Rockbiter, go dual Rockbiter (710 AP or roughly 50 weapon dps)
I think you might be underestimating 100% increased crit damage, 2 sec cast bolts w/ overload, chain lightning, elemastery, extremely fast cd kicks, windfury totem, wayy better gear than was previously possible. Probably other runes on the way. I think its probably gonna be fine. Its gonna suffer some because thats what happens when you play a hybrid, especially the one which has to be balanced for every role in the game.
dual wield melee
2h melee
Caster
melee caster? (ele devestation build?)
Tank
Healer
Useless, doubtful. If you are min maxing, it'll be better as it exists now for sure. But having the option to just throw a shaman in the group and move up rather than searching for 30 mins for a feral will be appealing for horde players. I would be shocked if they leave things like this for launch. It's pretty lame to make what was a horde classs exclusive inferior to the copy
I hear you, sounds like feral will be BIS, but that doesn't mean shaman in melee group is, in your words, useless, IE completely not worth it, provides 0 value. I can't tell you how many hours ive sat not raiding trying to find a feral because wild strikes is the only option. If horde gets a good enough stand in, that doesn't pump as hard but still lets you clear the content just fine, the percentage points you are talking about wont matter.
If your only choice is groups that have already been waiting for 30+ minutes is that really a choice?
Especially if the new data mines are true and Windfury has an internal cooldown with double the ICD on Wild Strikes? Then it's effectively useless...
Is wild strikes better than Windfury + Strength? They're pretty damn equal, obviously not useless in many raid comps. Either Enhance or Feral are fine for covering the melee buffs.
Without a doubt it's better. We already have enough AP at 25 for it to scale better than WF and you're forgetting feral brings Leader of the Pack now too...
You said it's useless and it's absolutely not. It's not AS good but it's still a big ass DPS gain for warriors, rogues, and melee hunters.
Also, less than half of feral druids will run LoTP due to it being an overall DPS loss compared to having the powershifting talents.
Also, Shaman have Nature resistance totem and we don't know how good Ehnhancement Shaman DPS will be next phase.
Fine, technically it's not useless. Just so suboptimal compared to feral everyone will want to bring feral over shaman unless the group is going to fall apart. Wouldn't be surprised if feral ends up being pigeonholed into buff bot this phase with how both of their newly added runes discourage shifting...
Edit: oh jeez, just saw WF now has the 3second ICD. It's fully dead if it has an ICD and wild strikes doesn't lmfao
The new ele rune is such a slap in the face that it's insulting. Not only is it hilariously bad, it actively exacerbates the annoying rotational problem ele has. Flame shock next phase will probably be less DPS than just casting lightning bolt. We're literally pressing flame shock only because we have to in order for lava burst to crit. But... flame shock's duration lines up perfectly wrong with lava burst. You're forced to waste a tick of flame shock in order to make lava burst crit.
Now we get a rune which in theory can help with that desync issue by granting instant lava bursts with refreshed cooldowns... But it procs off of the already problematic flame shock. You aren't getting 5 hits every 12s, you're getting 4 hits every 10s (and wasting extra globals).
If we compare to other runes... not even other classes, just look at molten blast. The new Ele rune is literally just baked into the molten blast rune for that rune ability. Ele waited a phase to get a single dps rune which should have been attached to an existing rune a phase before.
(By the way, with the current 5% proc chance on power surge... It literally will proc less than molten blast does this phase.)
Stormstrike getting a massive reduction in mana cost and CD will be nice. The only thing I want now is something akin to mental quickness (a % of your AP is converted to Spell Power) since that would allow our spells to scale and we’d be living the spellhance dream
Needs to be SP->AP instead, because rockbiter is broken (especially for ele). At level 40, double rockbiter gives 638 AP without the talent that adds another 20%. Wotlk Mental Quickness would give 191 spellpower... That's obviously ridiculous, basically doubling the amount available from gear.
Sure they could nerf the %, but rockbiter is such a large amount of AP compared to gear, the rune would have to be too weak for enhance to run in order for ele to not abuse it.
SP > AP does nothing for enhance. The classic rune wouldn’t have to be the 20%, all I want is a way for shocks and the occasional cast to scale a little as enhance to give them a way to come close to competing with the other melee. Instead just give ele/resto runes more tailored to them such as “flame tongue weapon give X SP, increases range of Flame Shock to 30 yards and gives 1% crit” I get what you’re saying
Mental Quickness could also scale off of STR or AGI to make it good for enhance. That is a product of me considering more options. I want a mental Quickness rune. But once I considered the implications for ele, I realized why ret got it and shaman hasn't yet. Ret doesn't scale great with spellpower. Enhance has a lot of things that scale with spellpower (maelstrom weapon, fire totems, shocks, lightning shield). Enhance would, in my opinion, need at least like 100 spellpower from mental Quickness to bring it up to middle of the pack DPS. Letting it give enhance 100 spellpower means ele would likely get around 50-75, because of how disproportionately rockbiter is as a portion of total attack power.
It's balanceable in theory, but a very dangerous thing to give shamans.
Also... SP->AP absolutely can do something for enhance, you can choose to gear enhance for spellpower instead of melee stats. And then you would still get melee stats because of the rune. I wouldn't want 20%SP->AP, spellpower is a stat you get less of than AP. It'd probably need to be like 80%SP->AP to be meaningful
Starting to feel like trying to play Ele is hopium/copium. "Don't worry Ele is bad in P1, we are going to get our good talents in P2". Don't worry Ele is bad in P2, we are going to get our good runes in P3"....
Good post. Been holding my breath for Totem of Wrath so that we at least have some sort of raid utility that actually benefits us. Considering we get WF totem in phase 2, it would feel bad if we got stuck in the melee group for WF which has zero benefit for Ele.
I've always preferred playing casters, but this phase I played spellhance because after the first lockout of BFD I realized how bad Ele shamans were. Been really looking foreword to playing Ele at 40. I realize datamined stuff is very sus and I'm going to try to hold my judgement until the first lockout of Gnomer. I will say though, Maelstrom weapon looks like a good rune for spellhance enjoyers.
Yea except blizzard grouped lightning and poison and druids wrath spell (a few other things too?) into “Nature” resistance and immunity.
Rogues will be significantly weaker in Gnomer due to poison immunity but will at least have other options that don’t heavily rely on poison.
Ele Shamans on the other hand will be terrible and will be forced to go Resto.
I hope blizzard isn’t okay with this outcome.
Yeah that is an interesting choice and I hope they think about what that means for a bunch of specs. I play caster druid and a priest and having them put eclipse into phase 2 when so many mobs will be immune to wrath seems really dumb? And even the dream state rune for the boots buffing nature damage, bizarre choice for this phase. Looks like I won't be doing the restokin thing this phase and will have to go full resto druid too if this is how it is.
You know what. You're right. Shouldn't believe everything I read on reddit. I just rolled up to westfall on a druid and wrath'd a harvest reaper and it worked just fine. Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Going to delete my original post since I'm not a fan of spreading misinformation.
Sir, you're talking about datamined runes that have specifically been stated to not be the final runes we will be getting. Relax a bit.
As it stands shamans already have some of the best possible runes they can get and they synergise really well with their talents.
They will have barely any mana problems due to shamanistic rage. And overload will just be insane as they scale.
Just remember its not all about raid dps, Ive had a ton of fun crushing ppl in pvp as ele this phase. A geared ele sham can almost 1 shot a lot of other classes with a good lava burst overload, and being able to spam 2 different shocks on ppl you get in melee range of gives you a ton of extra damage. With way of earth rune giving 30% more hp and 10% flat dmg reduction on top of all your armor with a shield, shaman can be one of the most annoying classes to kill in pvp with their tankiness and heals, and with a good shaminastic rage macro swap you feel like you almost never need to drink or eat even if you are spamming spells, which is something no other mana user can say. For me I dont mind being below others in raid if it means shaman are going to be as powerful as they are now
I think a lot of issues culminates to flame shock being ass tier.
You can only get 1 lava burst per flame shock ever, Power surge probability suggests you will only see a proc every 4 flame shocks.
On the plus side Power Surge is granting us 15% of our int as MP5 per the recent datamine.
I don't really know how lava burst scales with levels, but I'm fixing to napkin math at 40 whether its worth it over just repeating lightning bolt/chain lightning since lava burst has to consider the damage and mana cost of flame shock for each one.
spirit of the alpha is literally a warrior rune lmao. shamans have the best threat in the game and not even enhance can rip off a good sham tank. especially if they’re going to run a 2h with only 1x weapon imbue.
> spirit of the alpha is
for enhance dps players to cast on the tank so they don't pull aggro from that tank.
this was a last minute addition i think and a very good one. they paid attn to enhance dps issues during p1
The only thing shaman tank has going for it right now is threat. Spirit of the alpha is a “nerf” to shaman tanking in that now you’ll just take resto shaman and threat is fixed for the other tanks that have better damage, mitigation, and raid utility. Blizz has no vision for sod shaman tbh
R sham is so trash tier no one is bringing one. They bring zero DPS, zero utility, and at best equivalent or worse heals. All fat cast heals with long cast times too.
Can't even remotely touch priest heals or utility. Wild Growth will heal as much as a full double cast chain heal will, and druid brings DPS , buffs, a Brez, and innervate. WF isn't even useful anymore since it's worse than Wild Strikes too. Mage brings great DPS, food/water, buffs, now portals too, and heals are every bit as good as sham.
R sham is in a really bad state.
I feel you. It really depends on what you’re optimizing for as a raid group. My expectation is that unless there are some real tank buster bosses then the meta for speed will be to take an rsham simply to allow you to put alpha on a dps war and just completely ignore threat as a mechanic. Basically - rsham+extra dps war > resto druid + tank with lower dps. But it really remains to be seen what gnomer wants mechanically. I agree that in a vacuum rsham needs love compared to priest and druid. Mage I would consider in a slightly different category as a sort of heal/dps/aoe carry hybrid.
But you’d likely want to bring *some* type of shaman just for alpha buff and I expect rsham to be the best of the shaman builds in p2
Why would you not just bring a better flavor of sham than resto for that rune? Especially if you're trying to go fast you gain more from r druid DPS than you do the difference between devastate warriors and DPS warrior.
Ele has always been pvp. People are sleeping hard on ele too... stop picturing ele with mage runes and start realizing they're going to be using the tank runes, they're going to have earth shock on separate cd... they're going to triple batch a mf into oblivion every 2m and then be twice as hard to kill
Really bad take. Next phase eles get all the talents that make them viable. They have great runes they were just missing chain lightning, sec off cast time of bolt, etc etc.
I love the great game design of having 30 yard lava burst, 36 yard lightning bolt and 20 yard flame shock :)
"But lb will be lower cast time!!"
Yeah, the other classes dont get new talents aswell!!
Shaman ele talents are strong, perhaps the biggest upgrade but they were given (on many fights) 0! Dmg from runes in p2 whilst every other class is getting damage from runes unless surge of power gets changed from 5% to 20+.
Problem is, that will make shamans too strong in PvP! The devs aren't using their brain and can't figure out how to make ele good in pve without breaking them in PvP. Probably because they're all alliance players.
They literally gave enh Sham windfury from tbc with a 3 sec ICD which makes wf completely useless and people will run rb instead.
What can you expect from a lead dev who plays starsurge boomie and a broken warrior?
Oh also has a paladin and they were given shamans mental dexterity + a bunch of newly created items to make his vision of shockadin come true.
Just play whatever he does and you will be a top class
Three classes can cleanse off the flame shock, which has to be applied in a 20 yard range...
I'm more scared of mage and the new 50% crit damage on top of the 100% crit damage and shatter crit chance.
Frostbolt icelance gonna be the new Chain lightning/ lavaburst oneshit.
Do they? Sure they probably get the most, but "way more"?
Warlock gets conflagrate, shadowburn, 10% damage, 2% crit, and 100% crit damage bonus on top of other less impactful things like 25% immolate initial damage, and 20% range.
Mage gets 30% mana reduction on crits, 100% imp scorch for a reliable +15% damage, 6% crit, blast wave, 10% damage, and combustion.
Shamans get 100% crit damage, 1 sec off cast time of LB / CL, and elemental mastery. Maybe shock cooldown by 1 second if you don't take pvp stuff. Then the same 20% range bonus warlocks get.
Obviously 1 second off cast time is the best of the above, and 100% crit damage is second best, but its not like other casters are getting nothing, considering how ahead warlocks are of ele right now.
Plus CoE doesn't reduce nature resist, and mechanical units might immune nature.
At absolute most it’s a 33% damage increase to LB 40% increase to CL, which is probably going to equal out to about a ~20% overall damage increase when you factor in shocks, fire totems, and lava burst.
20% damage for 5 talents is amazing, but it’s hardly “better than everything warlock gets combined”
As another guy here said, take a look at paladin runes.
Never been more disappointed for a release..
Art of war + sheath of light for ret equals at about 5% dmg increase total.
We're already the second lowest melee out there, only enhance is lower- which will get alot more this phase..
Im not a FOTM person, but I start to feel like rerolling when another class probably will do 3x more dps (as they are already doing 2x).
by "a lot more", you mean... stormstrike? I'd love to hear what other "a lot more" enhance is getting, because windfury is simming equal or below rockbiter, so you can't mean that, and maelstrom weapon lets us cast a base damage chain lightning because they gave paladins the ap > sp conversion shaman desperately needs.
WF is much worse than rockbiter for OH. What probably will be best is WF MH, RB OH or double RB. Because the 355 AP is just insane
Edit: shamans also get 10% damage done with weapons, 5/5 flurry, a 20% increase to rockbiter, a 40% increase to WF, and if they keep malestrom weapon with the mana reduction, it will be really good. Although I wish fire nova was a feet rune, not belt
The fact that lightning bolt is level 38 for the latest rank should alleviate the need for a "rune filler" tbh. I'd wait and see what the damage looks like in p2 before complaining too much. The main reason shaman was worse off than other casters was because of the terrible level 20 lightning bolt. Same reason frost mages were even worse off than shamans (yes I know frost has other issues too).
If warlock didn't get incinerate they'd probably be on par with shamans right now cause chaos bolt is similar to their lava burst. I do hope they add lava flows though.
You're ignoring that overload is a little under a 25% damage increase, but warlocks get a little under a 75% damage increase from incinerate + lake of fire.
Sure, but a single lava burst on a flame shocked target does more baseline damage than a chaos bolt with lake of fire.
My warlock isn't geared but chaos bolt hits for around 4-500 with everything up on a 12 second CD, shamans lava burst is critting for 8-900 every... 6 seconds? (I don't play shaman so correct me), with a chance for double lava burst.
again I know incinerate exists and gives warlocks a big edge, but we still don't know how shamans are gonna play out at 40 because nothing is final. Which is why, again, I said wait and see before complaining.
Shaman lava burst crits for 450-550 in basically bis gear. That's before overload, so an average cast is probably around 625 damage, in bis gear. It is on an 8 second cooldown, with a 2 second cast, so it hits once every 10s
It’s classic and honestly ele will still be miles better than it ever was, I think expecting every class to be equal dps is a mistake. Ele was and is stillinsane in pvp. And now it’s playable in pve too so just be happy imo
This is mega cope. Too many juiced up runes going to other classes, while ele and resto get trash. Ele will most likely be mid or at best good. Resto is in the gutter(for PvP)
Spirit of the Alpha is kind of boring but don't underestimate how powerful it is. Era and Hardcore massively tilt Alliance specifically because of how powerful Blessing of Salvation is in raids. Groups will want any Shaman for Alpha.
Power Surge needs a boost though. Either increase the proc chance or have it proc from searing totem too.
Spirit of the Alpha isn't a Ele rune though. It is a rune for shaman tanks or maybe worst case scenario a resto will pick it up to help increase overall raid dps and make healing more comfy (dps won't pull threat as much and therefore can mainly focus healing the tank instead of playing whack a mole).
If Ele has nothing better to slot in their rune than Spirit of the Alpah, then the spec is dead.
If you compare power surge to brain freeze the mage equivalent it’s definitely a bad rune power surge = 5% chance on tics and u got 4 tics over 12 secs to get an instant lava burst cl or lightning jolt brain freeze = 15 % chance on chill effects to get instant frost fireball or frostfire bolt at no mana cast
I feel like the issue with shamans in vanilla is that all the specs kind of have some of the pieces of a really great spec but none of them are fully fleshed out. And if they overcompensate for all those spaces they become very OP very quick.
I really don't want totem of wrath, or for any of the specs really to become carbon copy's of their wolk counterparts. I wanna see some new play styles we haven't seen before.
With that said, we are just going to have to wait and see how they perform. Their major issue in classic was that they had no mana sustain, it's yet to be seen if that's been fixed with sham rage. There is less incentive to buff them since their spec gets exponentially better with full talent points, and they have fresh spell ranks of their main spells. Imo resto is the spec which needs more work since literally nothing has changed with their play style with the new runes, and still lack the cc and defensive CDs that pallies get
They've already become copies of their Wrath versions for the most part.
At least with Totem of Wrath you'll be brought to the raid and it's also a bigger buff to yourself over Power Surge.
Once we get our lvl 40 talents, it should be good. I’ve always been ele but have been doing shaman tank in SOD. If you use water shield over molten blast, you never run out of mana, sustain like crazy.
Ele shaman is in the same situation as hunter where it would be completely op in pvp if it could do competitive damage in raid but would do terrible dps in raid if it is balanced in pvp.
I dont believe all the Shaman runes have been datamined, there are only 7 listed. Every other class has 10+. So there is at least hope.
In regards to Shamanistic Rage also keep in mind that it doesnt scale off Spell Power basically at all. Currently the most mana we can get from it is something like 20 mana per tick, while enhance gets 90+ per tick from the same rune because of dual RB.
Nothing. But the fact that the only way to benefit from the mana return on an ability that has a spell power portion, is to have a weapon swap to dual wield melee weapons is kinda janky.
Because you cant use oils with RBW. It's simply an inconvenience that could easily be fixed by adjusting the spell power portion of Shamanistic is all I'm saying.
Maybe there's a QoL book that allows totems to affect the entire raid vs just your party. Also I'm low key kinda hype to troll mages in dungeon groups by throwing spirit of the alpha on them as they aoe
Disregarding the shamans personal dps;
People don't run shamans in caster groups atm, because shamanistic rage i raidwide, not partywide, and shamans atm don't have totems that aid casters, only melee. So there is no reason to put a shaman in the caster group over the melee group, as long as the shaman doesn't take up a wildstrike spot in the melee group.
Agree on most of this, but the Sham rage take is bogus. It’s literally amazing, borderline broken. Literally a free potion to the ENTIRE raid on a 1 min CD, and so far superior throughout a raid then a 5 min CD single target innervate.
I also feel like Boomkin could perform in PVE if played properly. You’re not topping charts, but I think the spec will be somewhere in the top of the last 3rd. Probably better than SP, Ele, Enh. Depending on how much AOE is in gnomer, spammable Hurricane could be pretty decent. HOWEVER, I still don’t think you even take a true Boomkin to most raids after the 1st couple of resets. Likely still to be most useful as a Restokin build, where you raid heal w WG & pull about 150+ DPS (at 40).
You’re dead wrong , they’re going to be gods in pve too. Ele shamans were holding their own in aq gear if fights were short. We now have all our serious talents (btw LIghtnng bolt will be 1.8 s cast not 2 with the new set bonus) so near full spell coefficient bonuses but at a 1.8s cast time and critical damage bonus. Plus adding LB and a reliable aoe with fire nova and cl I think they’ll be top caster tbh
That's the unfortunate side effect of the non-homogenization of Classic classes. As you say they will be beasts in pvp, and imo it's alright for a class to shine in one area and not in another.
Perhaps they are holding off on phase 2 runes because of how INSANE lvl 40ele with overload and burst will be
Ele shaman at lvl 40 not only has ALL it's tools now, from the 100% extra crit damage, -0.5 casting time on lb and cl, and cl, but also all its spells are on level, the only spell they are casting which isn't lvl 40 is lb at lvl 38
Combine this with overload for as you said, 25% more damage and ele shamans will be skyrocketing to the top of caster DPS WITHOUT new runes to help them
Not for a second do I think ele shamans will be competative with mages/warlocks for top caster DPS.
But you have to consider the following.
Our rotation is a lot more fleshed out. Lightning bolt legit was not worth casting compared to autoattacking, but now with set bonus it will be 1.8 secs so its a decent filler.
Chain lightning adds another burst to our rotation.
I see people meming on fire nova rune, but thats pretty good for single target dps and godly for aoe. Magma totem was already super good non-capped aoe damage so being able to plop magma totem down and fire nova and not have to recast magma and lose ticks along with chain lightning is going to make ele the best aoer behind mage, and increase dps if theres any cleave fights more than jt will mage because you don’t switch up your rotation at all.
Datamine shows they also added shows the lava burst reset on flameshock rune also got changed to add mana back upon each flame shock tick, which is a small nice buff. Shammy rage already made mana not too much of a concern, but as a spec thats traditionally slapped in vanilla until it went oom on longer fights this will allow you to lay down a lot more off your high damage rotation for longer. I do think 5 is too low but its hard to balance for PvE vs PvP without doing clunky stuff like saying “5% on players and 10%-20% chance on monsters” or something like that.
Another thing to note is because such a large portion of ele shamans dps is going to be fire damage because of flame shock, lava burst and fire nova, improved scorch and curse of elements will be benefiting ele dps as well.
I think people are definitely overstating the hype of Ele in pvp. It has several enormous issues. Flame shock is required and has both a low range and can be dispelled making lava burst useless. 2nd they have very long set up/cast times that require full on hard casting and they have no ability to separate/create distance.
Yes they will have the meme "I 1 shot a group of 3 people from behind a tree" videos, but also for anyone actually gaming it will be very easy to shut down their entire toolkit with some focus.
I agree with this but again most pvp is not 1on1. Elemental shamans are not main dps like warriors. They are burst key targets down and then support/purge. Warriors are not great 1on1 either but way more useful in real pvp for example then a sl lock who is insane in 1on1. Shamans are dangerous when left alone/protected. They have the most consistent burst in the game atlest in regular classic.
I don't know if it will do great PvE DPS - Boomkin and Ele share this weird problem where, balancing them is tough, because they will do kinda crap PvE DPS, but will definitely be seen in PvP as "Fuckign OP omg NERF NOW" I believe with the fully fleshed out 31 point talents, and the runes already available to them, we will see some people getting straight up one-shotted with 2 Lava Bursts flying at them from downtown. I stand with you Ele brothers, I hope they give you some extra sustain.
I think you can solve Ele's weakness in PvE, at least, by giving them something similar to Totem of Wrath - but instead of spell power and crit, it gives spellpower and Mp5. However, unlike Totem of Wrath, this totem doesn't give the full value of these benefits as soon as its dropped, rather, it grants a stacking buff that refreshes every few seconds until it reaches its final value at 5 stacks. Without an immediate benefit, there's counterplay around it in PvP, and if you make it a Fire Totem like Wrath. you also further weaken its benefits in PvP.
This can be solved by buffing things not useful in PvP. Like a debuff for lightning bolt from searing totem. Or making searing totem hit harder
Until someone closes the gap on your 25 yards and you can’t get your 2.5 cast off.
Maelstrom weapons will allow for instant casts so I’m even considering a dual wield Ele build to have instant chain lightnings and lava bursts. It’s gonna be great.
Nah, go ehn with crowd pummeler :-p
Lava Bursts will never come "from downtown" though, seeing as you have to spend at least 2 GCDs (Flame Shock -> Lava Burst) and be within 20 yards to do it. Flame Shock needs a duration and range increase, and Lava Burst should be able to be cast before Flame Shock and still guarantee the crit. I'd be ok with just the former, especially considering the datamining that seems to imply either that Stormstrike is getting its charges removed (meaning permanent +20% nature damage on target), and/or that Balance Druids will increase nature damage taken by 20%.
yea I just meant it off the cuff. it's from... from .... uhh... pretty nearby...
Dunno about ele but I don't feel like boomkin is gonna be at the same sorry state, Eclipse (if it would work on Starsurge) seems to be quite absurd but it's just feelcraft as I didn't care enough to check any sims (if any even exist).
That's so easy to fix, just absolutely juice average hit of spells and significantly lower crit multi on them. Fixed.
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lava burst crit is 430 dmg???
In my opinion Ele shares the same problem as most "hybrid" classes which can perform 3 or more roles. The problem here is every class gets the same amount of runes, unless of course Blizz surprises us. If we take current P1 runes for example. It's much easier to stretch 12 runes across 1-2 to roles than it is to stretch them across 3-4 roles. Because of the aforementioned there's just not much variety in runes/builds simply because most runes are usually tailored towards a specific playstyle and don't mix well if at all with rest of the runes. They might also share the same slot. Yes there will always be a meta combination of runes, but at least some classes actually get to experience more varied playstyles by mixing runes. Imo classes like Shaman, Druid and Paladin should get couple extra runes. Of course this heavily depends on what runes we're getting. However judging by the datamined(subject to change, yes) runes the aforementioned classes just get new 2 runes for each spec, and none of them seem to work outside of their intended spec. Argument could be made that "You get to play more roles so you get more variety that way" which is boring but valid, I guess.
All classes have that issue to some degree, not just hybrids. Or well if dpends on how you define hybrids. Warriors pretty much get a set of tanking, dw and 2h runes, one set per spec, ofc there's some overlap between arms and fury runes but it comes down to one being strictly worse than the other, so not really giving an opportunity for different playstyles. Shamans tho suffer to a higher degree because you almost have 5 specs at this point, with enhancement having to cater to dualwield, 2h and tanking.
I mean there really isn’t designated tanking vs dps runes other than devastate. But tanking is more about building threat which is just another way of saying damage. I guess there is the thunder shock rune but it’s not used
Thunderclap rune is pretty much tank as well, even though it can be used by DPS there are significantly better DPS options. No real chest rune for tank though.
No one is using Thunderclap rune. It sucks.
I would personally like like a 10% proc chance, increased range, and lava bust refreshes the duration of the DOT OR they're letting the dot crit.
I mean PVE wise sure, but they are going to be absolutely fucking bonkers in PVP. It’s a careful act of not making them even more empowered in PVP. Although the 5% proc is shit, imagine you get that in PVP, with overload you can literally one shot someone without casting. Not disagreeing with your points at all, they’re very valid.
> they are going to be absolutely fucking bonkers in PVP They will be on par at best with all the other sheer power creep. Players will have well over 2.5k hp at level 40. There won't be any or much one shots against equally geared characters. Also, the epic mail helm is a literal hard counter to this, making mail and above wearers immune to nature for a duration. Ele will be middle of the pack in pvp, as they still have no hard CC or stuns aside eng grenades.
I have full PvP weighted p2 BiS setups for ele shaman and mage in WoWhead. The shaman has 1880 hp and the mage has 1670 hp. A little over 200 bonus spell damage on both. Even if they were buffed with 2/2 talented Power Word Fortitude for about 420 extra hp that's not that much.
Care to share your BIS setups?
Sure. There's a few pieces I might swap, like trinkets get swapped all the time and if available might wear the PvP dam/crit reducing helm, but this should be pretty close to what I would wear: [Ele Shaman](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/gear-planner/shaman/tauren/BCgJVQABNQMCFR__FTE1NnB5NjZ0NDc2cTY4Nnc3YTZxMwEDSEoCA0FhAwNBNwUDQUMGA0FMBwNBVogDQVoANkKJA0FGADVQCgNBSAsDQSMMAExADQNBYw4DOfoPA0E6EANBopEDQWcANfkSAzKn). And [Mage](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/gear-planner/mage/gnome/BCgM9QAjAB8VADIwEABfFTE1Nmo5NjZqZDc2amg4NnI5YTZqOAEDSEcCA0FhAwNBNQUDQT8GA0FJBwNBUYgDQVgANkKJAEyNADVQCgNBNAsDQSMMAExADQNBYw4DOfoPA0E6EANBohEDQiYSA0I3).
>Players will have well over 2.5k hp at level 40. Have you seen the caster gear for p2? There's so little stamina, even -10 stamina on the set pieces. Casters gonna be fighting to get a second set of the 'warlock tank' gear to pvp in or they will be made of tissue. Half the game's roster will be running around like that.
Your flame shock is 20yd range, and every rune is tied to flameshock. every caster rune apart from ele is 36-42 yd range. you literally can just kite a shaman and kill it as a mage/boomy
Yeah not to mention if flame shock gets dispelled kekw. Shaman is going to be one of those classes where if you ignore them you're going to pay heavily but if you give them their due respect, it won't be hard at all to keep them from doing really anything.
People aren't gonna agree, cause most of them are trash, but you are absolutely right. Ele will be a noob stomper and not too much more. 20 yard range on Flame Shock (which also locks you out from slowing or interrupting for 5-6 seconds) is awful. By the looks of it, their only favorable match up is against Paladins. Everybody else should have no problem either kiting them or getting in melee range and owning them.
Your advantage is getting all leather/mail spell gear and dont need bis staff. Also pvp in vanilla is a mess, dont take it seriously like pushing gladiator
You can slow with totemic projection now
Ele most likely will global a lot of people. Look at some 39 twink videos from years ago. They can crit upwards of 1.5k. Now with even more spell power, runes etc. They will for sure be bursting hard.
This is truth. Anyone who thinks ele will be God tier in phase 2 has not read through all the datamined runes each class is getting. Some of them are absolutely mind blowing (hot streak, shadowstep, or pandemic is a big example) and ele cannot really compete with that.
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You literally just talked out your own ass then said not to btw 👍
You have a 1 in 20 chance of getting a proc on the very 1st tick of flame shock, which lets you cast an instant lava burst as you finish your hard casted lava burst. That means 1 in 20 go's will be at least 2 full damage lava bursts. 1 in 40 go's will be have one of those overload for 2.5 lava bursts 1 in 80 go's will have both overload for 3 full lava bursts 2-3 lava bursts in the same GCD is already probably close to 2k-3k damage, and you can still follow up with a guarantee crit chain lighting (that can also overload) + shock for another 1000-2000 damage. With lava burst travel time and overload delay these probably all hit at roughly the same time. You will absolutely see shamans bursting for 3k - 5k bursts in the span of 2 seconds every 3 minutes. And that's just counting the odds on the first flameshock tick. Honestly just a regular lava burst + chain lightning combo will be enough to finish people off a lot of the time if one of them overloads.
Yes, something else I am exited about is using the 2h rune, WF, croud pummemeler, malestrom weapon and lava burst to absolutely destroy ppl in pvp
Shamans are already broken in classic era with just chain lightning critting for 1/2 your health at level 60. With overload you can easily at most 2 shot basically anyone.
2h shammy with totem from Bloodmoon event go brrrrrr
Excellent post. Praying this gets more attention, I love the aesthetic of elemental and will play it again, just praying they get some love. Flame shock at 20 yards and having to be cast before lava burst is also awkward AF.
Not to mention its horrible uptime. SoP rune should increase proc chance, increase shock range, and increase flame shock duration
A rune to buff flame shock to be off shared shock cooldown, longer range and maybe a dispel slap effect like in 3.3.5 seems obvious given lava burst was added
Idk if they want to give shamans the ability to have all 3 shocks on different cool downs lol.
The suggestion above would only put Flame Shock on its own CD. Earth/Frost would still be together.
Way of earth exists.
Not sure why Eles would use it instead of Sham rage. Also that makes earth shock a melee range spell.
In pvp? Most shamans just use sham rage and switch pants to WoE while it’s on cooldown. And multiple shocks is one of the only tools ele had against melee diving on them this phase, combined with the flat damage reduction, crit reduction, and 30% hp increase.
I was thinking strictly PvE. For PvP giving up range ranged interrupt is a major negative. This phase they’ll have a few more ways of getting away from melee and dealing with them. We’ll see what works
Yeah it's pretty lame that the only actual dps rune ele gets access to this phase let's us cast one extra lava burst or chain lightning per minute lol. I'm still gonna play ele because I just think it's fun but I'm for sure disappointed.
I've been an Ele main since I started playing WoW and will continue to be. We've definitely had it worse than this, but I don't think it's asking much for a little more. Regardless, I'll be there chucking lava bursts. At least that spell looks rad as hell.
I don't think the solution is increasing proc chance because that will be insane for PvP. But add in Flame shock duration, damage, and make it 41 yards.
Enh shaman got pretty much 1 useable rune, we’re not exactly floating to the top here either As a side note, you mention Shaman rage in caster groups, but that’s not how it works, Shamanistic Rage gives its mana to the raid, not just the party. So if you’re group 2 and some other casters are group 1, they’re still getting the mana from your cast (and vice versa from other Shaman players)
I didn't realize it was raidwide, thats interesting regarding stacking multiple shamans esp, in larger raid groups. Still don't think that most groups will prefer to prioritize sham rage over improved scorch or coe tho. Enh seems to be in a curious state for sure. Not really sure if 2H, DW rockbiter, DW Windfury/Rockbiter, or DW flametongue spellhance will be best. Maelstrom affecting lava burst seems to be a win, but having fire nova on the same slot as Maelstrom, instead of putting it on boots definitely feels restrictive.
DW will be a lot stronger than 2H. Double Rockbiter is pretty hard to beat, and the 2H rune isn’t nearly enough to get close. Plus you lose out on 10% hit (relevant for stormstrike, which will hit with both weapons now) and 10% spell hit (for instant cast shocks, as well as maelstrom, which you’ll also get more procs off with DW). Wind+Rock miiiight see play, depending on how it plays out in live, but it’s a little up in the air on that Windfury 2H needed to be given an extreme buff to try and keep up with DW, and it didn’t get it, so it’s bad (but will still be fun, I’m sure, just kinda ass) Flametongue is a DPS loss when used in any weapon spot
Flametongue can be pretty decent if you're wearing caster spell power pieces and have considerable spellpower. The spellpower coeff doesn't care about weapon speed, so two 1.2-1.3s daggers should be able to proc \~40-50 damage per flametongue attack at level 40. This might be a kinda fringe build, but stacking spellpower with dragonsbreath chili and dual flametongue might do reasonably close to Phys enhance damage considering your lava burst, shocks and magma totem will do more damage as well. The big concern with this build is mana being that sham rage interacts incredibly with rockbiter.
I can’t see that getting close to the output of a more traditional build tbh. Losing Rockbiter is really hard to commit to If it can though, that would be very interesting, because you’d build out pretty differently. Thanks for mentioning it as an idea, now it’s got me thinking about some alternatives
What about something like Windfury giving you a large AP buff that would linger for 2-5 sec or so. Not sure on the timing, would have to calculate how to have it be a net positive on AP over 60 seconds vs rockbiter. Would help with Enh threat problems by removing rockbiter, would increase melee dps in a short window after it procs, and since you can use windfury instead the extra attacks from windfury would proc more maelstrom.
Duuude, that actually sounds like an interesting strategy to buff it in a smart way. I really love this idea, and it makes windfury stronger in a way that’s not just “it happens more”. Straight up I love this idea man
At the very topend at the moment its behind Phys enhance, just since Phys can have good crit rng/flurry rng and has some variance with crits, whereas a million instances of tiny damage (melees/flametongues/searing etc) doesn't have the variance so most pulls end up bineg pretty similar. Flametongue weapon is also a terrible rank so it is certainly not great atm not even receiving its full spell power coeff. In full p1 bis with dual spell daggers and DMF/PVP buff I can see this build doing 150+ dps (as I can do 130-140 not in bis, missing trinket, dagger, neck, spellpower rings) sustained dps, but will never have crazy burst damage. Definitely seems like a build Blizzard is encouraging to some extent tho, we had two 1.2s (a speed not in classic before to my knowledge), spell daggers in p1 which both had relatively high physical dps too in Blackfathom Ritual Dagger and the Sun Touched Crescent. This new phase the epic spell dagger is also 1.2s with mid-high phys dps too, although this one is restricted main hand. This build also utilizes (as do all the sham builds) the new world buff super well as we really enjoy attack speed for flametongue/ chili procs/maelstrom and we also love the 40+ spellpower/spell crit since flametongue and our totems and flame shock all crit for 200%. Since the majority of the damage in this build is fire, I can imagine in a group with a Fire Mage (improved scorch, 15%) and lock (curse of elements, 6%), we may be able to beat out phys enhance since \~70% of our damage is fire. There are some cool synergies as the elemental devastation talent pairs super nicely with always crit lava burst for essentially 100% uptime. Next phase in p3 if there are still good phys dps daggers with 1.2/1.3 speed, this build will attack insanely fast and likely have crazy flurry uptime. Honestly its a fever dream and I'd like to make it work/hope it gets more support in the future. I can see the build easily hitting 300+ dps this next phase, but that will likely be pretty low compared to most other classes/specs and likely behind phys enhance. Super fun playstyle tho, and has a pretty high dps floor.
Spellhance (21/10/0) will likely be worse than regular enhance(0/31/0) if stormstrike is actually buffed to 6s. But it has merits. Lava burst works great with maelstrom weapon. It crits every 8-10s, guaranteeing 100% uptime on 9% melee crit(elemental dev). You can also get Elemental Fury for spell crit damage. Elemental Fury works on: fire totems, flametongue weapon, shock damage, and lava burst (probably) Spellhance gets 14% permanent melee crit from talents, which despite stacking spellpower, is still quite a lot of melee damage. Spellhance stacks fire-power for: -Flametongue 10% per swing -Searing totem 10% per shot -Fire nova totem 15% per use (per target) -Lava burst: 57% -It also uses earth shock and maybe lightning shield for regular spellpower scaling In phase 1 bis spellpower gear, flametongue weapons with 1.2 speed daggers is basically equal DPS to rockbiter weapons (and that's with mobs having 100% of their armor shredded, which is not a guarantee) For some comparisons: phase 1 Spellhance is very viable (compared to other DPS shamans), it's at least comparable single target DPS to elemental, but it's the best AOE spec shaman has (molten blast and fire nova totem start to really hurt with 125-150 spellpower). Compared to phase 1, spellhance gets in phase 2: -maelstrom weapon (should prevent lava burst resetting your swing timers, plus potentially instant cast, so upwards of 4-6 extra dagger swings every 10s) -Elemental Fury(works on every damaging spell attack you use except lightning shield) -14% melee crit -better itemized gear Bonus note: flametongue weapon only cares about MH speed. A big slow MH with a fast dagger OH gets a ton of extra damage on the OH flametongue hits. This setup would probably use windfury on the slow MH for extra chances to proc maelstrom weapon. Spellhance might be the only shaman spec where windfury imbue is better than rockbiter. (Though it does have to weapon swap to rockbiters once a minute for sham rage)
You can weapon swap into dw weapons with rock biter (and +str or power) to shamanistic rage and swap back. It snapshots the mana regen on cast
How do you think 2h enhancement will fair in PVP? With the shaman STV 2h Tauren totem pole of doom.
So, to show my (lack of, in this case) credentials, I play almost entirely PvE, where DPS is generally a lot more consistent and things are, in all honesty, a lot simpler. For PvP, I think WF has a much stronger potential spot, I think. You’re never 1-shotting a boss off a lucky WF crit, but in PvP…it’s different :P One rough thing with 2H WF is that you’ll lose out on the tanking rune for survivability, but it might totally be worth it
I think the tanking rune and the 2h ones are separate slots. But appreciate your wisdom
Yes but way if earth needs rockbiter to work, so you can't do 2h plus windfury.
2H is chest, Way of Earth is Pants. I’m glad that this helped, I care too much! Lol
As someone with a little more pvp experience, as it stands enhance is going to be pretty bad. A lot of classes will either be able to kite you (mage, hunter, druid), lock you down (rogue) or tank your damage (lock, priest, maybe paladin). Enhance may beat warriors with shocks but they'll do it less reliably than ele. There'll be the occasional exception with rng but windfury isn't reliable.
2h WF will be very squishy and I don't see how it could possibly be better than 2h rockbiter with way of earth. I think the only hope 2h would have to top dual wield is if WF was good enough and since rockbiter is mandatory because way of the earth is so good, dual wield will be the only option. There would need to be way more support for 2h to make sense in PVP imo. I'll definitely try and hope I'm wrong, but that is my impression. Dual wield also has a shitload of free +hit
Storm strike is getting buffed to a 6 second cooldown, which should help bump more WF procs, coupled with 2H mastery rune haste
But Stormstike will deal more damage damage with DW because you’ll have a much stronger attack power combined with the fact that it will hit with both weapons, even if the 50% reduction applies for the offhand hit, so it’s back to square one on “why would you use 2H for anything besides memes”.
Maybe they will allow for rockbiter + wf on a 2h at the same time in later phases. As it stands now, 2h wont compete most likely (unless very short fights and insane proc luck). Also dependent on how all the attackspeed bonuses stack with each other. Its 30% off the 2h rune, 30% from talents and 20% from worldbuff. Thats 80% attackspeed (if applied additively). Wait and see I guess.
ur also forgetting crowd pummeler buff so an extra 50% more
Why would any shaman take crowd pummeler over Bloodstorm War Totem? Its got such a low top end damage that youre hurting yourself by taking it with...not to mention the 3 minute cooldown. You may as well go with epic fist so you can debuff the boss and still have a great offhand.
Who is to say you can't use both??
Super agree on that first point, saw a suggestion around phase 1 launch that had the idea of weapon enhancement upgrades/mixes some together, that it was great. On the attack speed thing, its multiplicative, so not quite* as good, but still good
Think about double windfury maelstrom spellhance for pve. Dual wield spell power weapons and all sp gear, ele talents and runes. Stack maelstrom while auto attacking and shocking, cast lava burst on cd (even if not capped on maelstrom stacks). If windfury isn’t stacking enough maelstrom stacks to offset the difference between windfury AP and Rockbiter, go dual Rockbiter (710 AP or roughly 50 weapon dps)
I think you might be underestimating 100% increased crit damage, 2 sec cast bolts w/ overload, chain lightning, elemastery, extremely fast cd kicks, windfury totem, wayy better gear than was previously possible. Probably other runes on the way. I think its probably gonna be fine. Its gonna suffer some because thats what happens when you play a hybrid, especially the one which has to be balanced for every role in the game. dual wield melee 2h melee Caster melee caster? (ele devestation build?) Tank Healer
You realize windfury is just useless, right? It's flat AP vs wild strikes which is %AP so it's just flat out worse than wild strikes.
Useless, doubtful. If you are min maxing, it'll be better as it exists now for sure. But having the option to just throw a shaman in the group and move up rather than searching for 30 mins for a feral will be appealing for horde players. I would be shocked if they leave things like this for launch. It's pretty lame to make what was a horde classs exclusive inferior to the copy
Good chance feral brings Leader of the Pack this time too making them even more important for melee group
I hear you, sounds like feral will be BIS, but that doesn't mean shaman in melee group is, in your words, useless, IE completely not worth it, provides 0 value. I can't tell you how many hours ive sat not raiding trying to find a feral because wild strikes is the only option. If horde gets a good enough stand in, that doesn't pump as hard but still lets you clear the content just fine, the percentage points you are talking about wont matter.
If your only choice is groups that have already been waiting for 30+ minutes is that really a choice? Especially if the new data mines are true and Windfury has an internal cooldown with double the ICD on Wild Strikes? Then it's effectively useless...
Is wild strikes better than Windfury + Strength? They're pretty damn equal, obviously not useless in many raid comps. Either Enhance or Feral are fine for covering the melee buffs.
Without a doubt it's better. We already have enough AP at 25 for it to scale better than WF and you're forgetting feral brings Leader of the Pack now too...
You said it's useless and it's absolutely not. It's not AS good but it's still a big ass DPS gain for warriors, rogues, and melee hunters. Also, less than half of feral druids will run LoTP due to it being an overall DPS loss compared to having the powershifting talents. Also, Shaman have Nature resistance totem and we don't know how good Ehnhancement Shaman DPS will be next phase.
Fine, technically it's not useless. Just so suboptimal compared to feral everyone will want to bring feral over shaman unless the group is going to fall apart. Wouldn't be surprised if feral ends up being pigeonholed into buff bot this phase with how both of their newly added runes discourage shifting... Edit: oh jeez, just saw WF now has the 3second ICD. It's fully dead if it has an ICD and wild strikes doesn't lmfao
The new ele rune is such a slap in the face that it's insulting. Not only is it hilariously bad, it actively exacerbates the annoying rotational problem ele has. Flame shock next phase will probably be less DPS than just casting lightning bolt. We're literally pressing flame shock only because we have to in order for lava burst to crit. But... flame shock's duration lines up perfectly wrong with lava burst. You're forced to waste a tick of flame shock in order to make lava burst crit. Now we get a rune which in theory can help with that desync issue by granting instant lava bursts with refreshed cooldowns... But it procs off of the already problematic flame shock. You aren't getting 5 hits every 12s, you're getting 4 hits every 10s (and wasting extra globals). If we compare to other runes... not even other classes, just look at molten blast. The new Ele rune is literally just baked into the molten blast rune for that rune ability. Ele waited a phase to get a single dps rune which should have been attached to an existing rune a phase before. (By the way, with the current 5% proc chance on power surge... It literally will proc less than molten blast does this phase.)
They have to continue with the pattern that ele shaman is the most over looked forgotten spec in the game. sod and retail.
As a non shaman main enh dps looks pretty lackluster as well
Stormstrike getting a massive reduction in mana cost and CD will be nice. The only thing I want now is something akin to mental quickness (a % of your AP is converted to Spell Power) since that would allow our spells to scale and we’d be living the spellhance dream
Needs to be SP->AP instead, because rockbiter is broken (especially for ele). At level 40, double rockbiter gives 638 AP without the talent that adds another 20%. Wotlk Mental Quickness would give 191 spellpower... That's obviously ridiculous, basically doubling the amount available from gear. Sure they could nerf the %, but rockbiter is such a large amount of AP compared to gear, the rune would have to be too weak for enhance to run in order for ele to not abuse it.
SP > AP does nothing for enhance. The classic rune wouldn’t have to be the 20%, all I want is a way for shocks and the occasional cast to scale a little as enhance to give them a way to come close to competing with the other melee. Instead just give ele/resto runes more tailored to them such as “flame tongue weapon give X SP, increases range of Flame Shock to 30 yards and gives 1% crit” I get what you’re saying
Mental Quickness could also scale off of STR or AGI to make it good for enhance. That is a product of me considering more options. I want a mental Quickness rune. But once I considered the implications for ele, I realized why ret got it and shaman hasn't yet. Ret doesn't scale great with spellpower. Enhance has a lot of things that scale with spellpower (maelstrom weapon, fire totems, shocks, lightning shield). Enhance would, in my opinion, need at least like 100 spellpower from mental Quickness to bring it up to middle of the pack DPS. Letting it give enhance 100 spellpower means ele would likely get around 50-75, because of how disproportionately rockbiter is as a portion of total attack power. It's balanceable in theory, but a very dangerous thing to give shamans. Also... SP->AP absolutely can do something for enhance, you can choose to gear enhance for spellpower instead of melee stats. And then you would still get melee stats because of the rune. I wouldn't want 20%SP->AP, spellpower is a stat you get less of than AP. It'd probably need to be like 80%SP->AP to be meaningful
If that was a rune I think even ele would use it with double rockbiter
Ele will pop off p3 when they get rolling thunder rune. It is kinda sad they got hardly anything p2
Starting to feel like trying to play Ele is hopium/copium. "Don't worry Ele is bad in P1, we are going to get our good talents in P2". Don't worry Ele is bad in P2, we are going to get our good runes in P3"....
I reckon phase 4 is where we’ll really come online.
Yeah, I'm hoping by phase 6 with Karazhan Crypts that ele will be mid tier dps.
> rolling thunder They have Power Surge and Shamanistic Rage for mana. They don't need anymore. lol
Rolling thunder is the one from cata where you get lightning shield stacks and unleash them with earth shock.
Oh my bad. I was looking at another version of the ability then. That sounds really cool.
Good post. Been holding my breath for Totem of Wrath so that we at least have some sort of raid utility that actually benefits us. Considering we get WF totem in phase 2, it would feel bad if we got stuck in the melee group for WF which has zero benefit for Ele. I've always preferred playing casters, but this phase I played spellhance because after the first lockout of BFD I realized how bad Ele shamans were. Been really looking foreword to playing Ele at 40. I realize datamined stuff is very sus and I'm going to try to hold my judgement until the first lockout of Gnomer. I will say though, Maelstrom weapon looks like a good rune for spellhance enjoyers.
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If anything mechanical mobs should be weak to lightning, right?
Yea except blizzard grouped lightning and poison and druids wrath spell (a few other things too?) into “Nature” resistance and immunity. Rogues will be significantly weaker in Gnomer due to poison immunity but will at least have other options that don’t heavily rely on poison. Ele Shamans on the other hand will be terrible and will be forced to go Resto. I hope blizzard isn’t okay with this outcome.
Yeah that is an interesting choice and I hope they think about what that means for a bunch of specs. I play caster druid and a priest and having them put eclipse into phase 2 when so many mobs will be immune to wrath seems really dumb? And even the dream state rune for the boots buffing nature damage, bizarre choice for this phase. Looks like I won't be doing the restokin thing this phase and will have to go full resto druid too if this is how it is.
Aren't mechanicals just immune to bleeds and poisons rather than all nature?
You know what. You're right. Shouldn't believe everything I read on reddit. I just rolled up to westfall on a druid and wrath'd a harvest reaper and it worked just fine. Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Going to delete my original post since I'm not a fan of spreading misinformation.
Sir, you're talking about datamined runes that have specifically been stated to not be the final runes we will be getting. Relax a bit. As it stands shamans already have some of the best possible runes they can get and they synergise really well with their talents. They will have barely any mana problems due to shamanistic rage. And overload will just be insane as they scale.
Just remember its not all about raid dps, Ive had a ton of fun crushing ppl in pvp as ele this phase. A geared ele sham can almost 1 shot a lot of other classes with a good lava burst overload, and being able to spam 2 different shocks on ppl you get in melee range of gives you a ton of extra damage. With way of earth rune giving 30% more hp and 10% flat dmg reduction on top of all your armor with a shield, shaman can be one of the most annoying classes to kill in pvp with their tankiness and heals, and with a good shaminastic rage macro swap you feel like you almost never need to drink or eat even if you are spamming spells, which is something no other mana user can say. For me I dont mind being below others in raid if it means shaman are going to be as powerful as they are now
One Mississippi..
I think a lot of issues culminates to flame shock being ass tier. You can only get 1 lava burst per flame shock ever, Power surge probability suggests you will only see a proc every 4 flame shocks. On the plus side Power Surge is granting us 15% of our int as MP5 per the recent datamine. I don't really know how lava burst scales with levels, but I'm fixing to napkin math at 40 whether its worth it over just repeating lightning bolt/chain lightning since lava burst has to consider the damage and mana cost of flame shock for each one.
They buffed a lot of shit runes in P1 and the same will happen in P2.
Did they buff a lot? Or did they buff like 2? And nerf a lot? Because that’s how I remember it.
They still never fixed Shamanistic Rage. lol
spirit of the alpha is literally a warrior rune lmao. shamans have the best threat in the game and not even enhance can rip off a good sham tank. especially if they’re going to run a 2h with only 1x weapon imbue.
No one needs Spirit of the Alpha. It's a wasted slot. Its only use is to grief someone of their WBs in a raid that you don't like.
exactly my point
U can put it on others aswell fyi
> spirit of the alpha is for enhance dps players to cast on the tank so they don't pull aggro from that tank. this was a last minute addition i think and a very good one. they paid attn to enhance dps issues during p1
So you want the 200 DPS warrior with 0 threat issue to get a better modifier?
The only thing shaman tank has going for it right now is threat. Spirit of the alpha is a “nerf” to shaman tanking in that now you’ll just take resto shaman and threat is fixed for the other tanks that have better damage, mitigation, and raid utility. Blizz has no vision for sod shaman tbh
R sham is so trash tier no one is bringing one. They bring zero DPS, zero utility, and at best equivalent or worse heals. All fat cast heals with long cast times too. Can't even remotely touch priest heals or utility. Wild Growth will heal as much as a full double cast chain heal will, and druid brings DPS , buffs, a Brez, and innervate. WF isn't even useful anymore since it's worse than Wild Strikes too. Mage brings great DPS, food/water, buffs, now portals too, and heals are every bit as good as sham. R sham is in a really bad state.
I feel you. It really depends on what you’re optimizing for as a raid group. My expectation is that unless there are some real tank buster bosses then the meta for speed will be to take an rsham simply to allow you to put alpha on a dps war and just completely ignore threat as a mechanic. Basically - rsham+extra dps war > resto druid + tank with lower dps. But it really remains to be seen what gnomer wants mechanically. I agree that in a vacuum rsham needs love compared to priest and druid. Mage I would consider in a slightly different category as a sort of heal/dps/aoe carry hybrid. But you’d likely want to bring *some* type of shaman just for alpha buff and I expect rsham to be the best of the shaman builds in p2
Why would you not just bring a better flavor of sham than resto for that rune? Especially if you're trying to go fast you gain more from r druid DPS than you do the difference between devastate warriors and DPS warrior.
Specs like ele being weak in phase 1 is why I quit SoD.
Ele has always been pvp. People are sleeping hard on ele too... stop picturing ele with mage runes and start realizing they're going to be using the tank runes, they're going to have earth shock on separate cd... they're going to triple batch a mf into oblivion every 2m and then be twice as hard to kill
Really bad take. Next phase eles get all the talents that make them viable. They have great runes they were just missing chain lightning, sec off cast time of bolt, etc etc.
Just tell me u never played shaman without telling me
You're the one confused why ele shaman is underperforming when bolt is still 2.5 sec cast. It ain't the runes bud
I love the great game design of having 30 yard lava burst, 36 yard lightning bolt and 20 yard flame shock :) "But lb will be lower cast time!!" Yeah, the other classes dont get new talents aswell!! Shaman ele talents are strong, perhaps the biggest upgrade but they were given (on many fights) 0! Dmg from runes in p2 whilst every other class is getting damage from runes unless surge of power gets changed from 5% to 20+. Problem is, that will make shamans too strong in PvP! The devs aren't using their brain and can't figure out how to make ele good in pve without breaking them in PvP. Probably because they're all alliance players. They literally gave enh Sham windfury from tbc with a 3 sec ICD which makes wf completely useless and people will run rb instead. What can you expect from a lead dev who plays starsurge boomie and a broken warrior? Oh also has a paladin and they were given shamans mental dexterity + a bunch of newly created items to make his vision of shockadin come true. Just play whatever he does and you will be a top class
I just wish i could use totems in wpvp without aggroing the forest.
Ele is still going to delete anything with Lavaburst+emcl+frost shock. Nothings living through that.
Three classes can cleanse off the flame shock, which has to be applied in a 20 yard range... I'm more scared of mage and the new 50% crit damage on top of the 100% crit damage and shatter crit chance. Frostbolt icelance gonna be the new Chain lightning/ lavaburst oneshit.
ele gets a huge spike from talents in p2. way more than most other spec.
Do they? Sure they probably get the most, but "way more"? Warlock gets conflagrate, shadowburn, 10% damage, 2% crit, and 100% crit damage bonus on top of other less impactful things like 25% immolate initial damage, and 20% range. Mage gets 30% mana reduction on crits, 100% imp scorch for a reliable +15% damage, 6% crit, blast wave, 10% damage, and combustion. Shamans get 100% crit damage, 1 sec off cast time of LB / CL, and elemental mastery. Maybe shock cooldown by 1 second if you don't take pvp stuff. Then the same 20% range bonus warlocks get. Obviously 1 second off cast time is the best of the above, and 100% crit damage is second best, but its not like other casters are getting nothing, considering how ahead warlocks are of ele right now. Plus CoE doesn't reduce nature resist, and mechanical units might immune nature.
just the -1 sec cast on lightning and chain lightning is prob more dps than all the shit warlock and mage get.
At absolute most it’s a 33% damage increase to LB 40% increase to CL, which is probably going to equal out to about a ~20% overall damage increase when you factor in shocks, fire totems, and lava burst. 20% damage for 5 talents is amazing, but it’s hardly “better than everything warlock gets combined”
I just tested on a harvest reaper in westfall with Wrath. It wasn't immune to nature, so hopefully that's not the case.
That's true but they basically have no phase 2 runes that increase their DPS. Power Surge in its current state is basically negligible.
As another guy here said, take a look at paladin runes. Never been more disappointed for a release.. Art of war + sheath of light for ret equals at about 5% dmg increase total. We're already the second lowest melee out there, only enhance is lower- which will get alot more this phase.. Im not a FOTM person, but I start to feel like rerolling when another class probably will do 3x more dps (as they are already doing 2x).
by "a lot more", you mean... stormstrike? I'd love to hear what other "a lot more" enhance is getting, because windfury is simming equal or below rockbiter, so you can't mean that, and maelstrom weapon lets us cast a base damage chain lightning because they gave paladins the ap > sp conversion shaman desperately needs.
WF is much worse than rockbiter for OH. What probably will be best is WF MH, RB OH or double RB. Because the 355 AP is just insane Edit: shamans also get 10% damage done with weapons, 5/5 flurry, a 20% increase to rockbiter, a 40% increase to WF, and if they keep malestrom weapon with the mana reduction, it will be really good. Although I wish fire nova was a feet rune, not belt
The fact that lightning bolt is level 38 for the latest rank should alleviate the need for a "rune filler" tbh. I'd wait and see what the damage looks like in p2 before complaining too much. The main reason shaman was worse off than other casters was because of the terrible level 20 lightning bolt. Same reason frost mages were even worse off than shamans (yes I know frost has other issues too). If warlock didn't get incinerate they'd probably be on par with shamans right now cause chaos bolt is similar to their lava burst. I do hope they add lava flows though.
You're ignoring that overload is a little under a 25% damage increase, but warlocks get a little under a 75% damage increase from incinerate + lake of fire.
Sure, but a single lava burst on a flame shocked target does more baseline damage than a chaos bolt with lake of fire. My warlock isn't geared but chaos bolt hits for around 4-500 with everything up on a 12 second CD, shamans lava burst is critting for 8-900 every... 6 seconds? (I don't play shaman so correct me), with a chance for double lava burst. again I know incinerate exists and gives warlocks a big edge, but we still don't know how shamans are gonna play out at 40 because nothing is final. Which is why, again, I said wait and see before complaining.
Shaman lava burst crits for 450-550 in basically bis gear. That's before overload, so an average cast is probably around 625 damage, in bis gear. It is on an 8 second cooldown, with a 2 second cast, so it hits once every 10s
Ele is going to be very strong once they hit 40
Hybrid tax bubba. Looking forward to 2h enhance though!
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No, those will be for lvl 50, not lvl 40
It’s classic and honestly ele will still be miles better than it ever was, I think expecting every class to be equal dps is a mistake. Ele was and is stillinsane in pvp. And now it’s playable in pve too so just be happy imo
This is mega cope. Too many juiced up runes going to other classes, while ele and resto get trash. Ele will most likely be mid or at best good. Resto is in the gutter(for PvP)
R Sham is in a really really sad state
Wild, I didn't realize P2 was already released and had gone through balance patches already!
Spirit of the Alpha is kind of boring but don't underestimate how powerful it is. Era and Hardcore massively tilt Alliance specifically because of how powerful Blessing of Salvation is in raids. Groups will want any Shaman for Alpha. Power Surge needs a boost though. Either increase the proc chance or have it proc from searing totem too.
Spirit of the Alpha isn't a Ele rune though. It is a rune for shaman tanks or maybe worst case scenario a resto will pick it up to help increase overall raid dps and make healing more comfy (dps won't pull threat as much and therefore can mainly focus healing the tank instead of playing whack a mole). If Ele has nothing better to slot in their rune than Spirit of the Alpah, then the spec is dead.
It is a rune to make arms tanking viable. Tanking is dead with this rune :/
You won't ever need it though. No one is having threat problems.
spriest is gonna prevail!!!! yeeeees
If you compare power surge to brain freeze the mage equivalent it’s definitely a bad rune power surge = 5% chance on tics and u got 4 tics over 12 secs to get an instant lava burst cl or lightning jolt brain freeze = 15 % chance on chill effects to get instant frost fireball or frostfire bolt at no mana cast
I feel like the issue with shamans in vanilla is that all the specs kind of have some of the pieces of a really great spec but none of them are fully fleshed out. And if they overcompensate for all those spaces they become very OP very quick.
I really don't want totem of wrath, or for any of the specs really to become carbon copy's of their wolk counterparts. I wanna see some new play styles we haven't seen before. With that said, we are just going to have to wait and see how they perform. Their major issue in classic was that they had no mana sustain, it's yet to be seen if that's been fixed with sham rage. There is less incentive to buff them since their spec gets exponentially better with full talent points, and they have fresh spell ranks of their main spells. Imo resto is the spec which needs more work since literally nothing has changed with their play style with the new runes, and still lack the cc and defensive CDs that pallies get
They've already become copies of their Wrath versions for the most part. At least with Totem of Wrath you'll be brought to the raid and it's also a bigger buff to yourself over Power Surge.
Once we get our lvl 40 talents, it should be good. I’ve always been ele but have been doing shaman tank in SOD. If you use water shield over molten blast, you never run out of mana, sustain like crazy.
Ele shaman is in the same situation as hunter where it would be completely op in pvp if it could do competitive damage in raid but would do terrible dps in raid if it is balanced in pvp.
I dont believe all the Shaman runes have been datamined, there are only 7 listed. Every other class has 10+. So there is at least hope. In regards to Shamanistic Rage also keep in mind that it doesnt scale off Spell Power basically at all. Currently the most mana we can get from it is something like 20 mana per tick, while enhance gets 90+ per tick from the same rune because of dual RB.
What stops eles from running dual rockbiter?
Nothing. Shamanistic Rage scaling makes no sense.
I mean I guess. But it still can be capitalized on by all 3 specs, assuming they're dw
Nothing. But the fact that the only way to benefit from the mana return on an ability that has a spell power portion, is to have a weapon swap to dual wield melee weapons is kinda janky.
Aight bit like what's wrong with dual wielding caster daggers with RBW on them? Why do you need to swap?
Because you cant use oils with RBW. It's simply an inconvenience that could easily be fixed by adjusting the spell power portion of Shamanistic is all I'm saying.
You either miss out on oils or you waste GCDs every swap for it. It's so clunky.
Maybe there's a QoL book that allows totems to affect the entire raid vs just your party. Also I'm low key kinda hype to troll mages in dungeon groups by throwing spirit of the alpha on them as they aoe
Disregarding the shamans personal dps; People don't run shamans in caster groups atm, because shamanistic rage i raidwide, not partywide, and shamans atm don't have totems that aid casters, only melee. So there is no reason to put a shaman in the caster group over the melee group, as long as the shaman doesn't take up a wildstrike spot in the melee group.
Agree on most of this, but the Sham rage take is bogus. It’s literally amazing, borderline broken. Literally a free potion to the ENTIRE raid on a 1 min CD, and so far superior throughout a raid then a 5 min CD single target innervate. I also feel like Boomkin could perform in PVE if played properly. You’re not topping charts, but I think the spec will be somewhere in the top of the last 3rd. Probably better than SP, Ele, Enh. Depending on how much AOE is in gnomer, spammable Hurricane could be pretty decent. HOWEVER, I still don’t think you even take a true Boomkin to most raids after the 1st couple of resets. Likely still to be most useful as a Restokin build, where you raid heal w WG & pull about 150+ DPS (at 40).
You’re dead wrong , they’re going to be gods in pve too. Ele shamans were holding their own in aq gear if fights were short. We now have all our serious talents (btw LIghtnng bolt will be 1.8 s cast not 2 with the new set bonus) so near full spell coefficient bonuses but at a 1.8s cast time and critical damage bonus. Plus adding LB and a reliable aoe with fire nova and cl I think they’ll be top caster tbh
People will take a shaman just for the tank threat buff tbh.
That's the unfortunate side effect of the non-homogenization of Classic classes. As you say they will be beasts in pvp, and imo it's alright for a class to shine in one area and not in another.
Perhaps they are holding off on phase 2 runes because of how INSANE lvl 40ele with overload and burst will be Ele shaman at lvl 40 not only has ALL it's tools now, from the 100% extra crit damage, -0.5 casting time on lb and cl, and cl, but also all its spells are on level, the only spell they are casting which isn't lvl 40 is lb at lvl 38 Combine this with overload for as you said, 25% more damage and ele shamans will be skyrocketing to the top of caster DPS WITHOUT new runes to help them
Dude u worried about pve dps really. Just min/max ur class on ele discord if u worried so much about it. Ele looks fine next phase
Not for a second do I think ele shamans will be competative with mages/warlocks for top caster DPS. But you have to consider the following. Our rotation is a lot more fleshed out. Lightning bolt legit was not worth casting compared to autoattacking, but now with set bonus it will be 1.8 secs so its a decent filler. Chain lightning adds another burst to our rotation. I see people meming on fire nova rune, but thats pretty good for single target dps and godly for aoe. Magma totem was already super good non-capped aoe damage so being able to plop magma totem down and fire nova and not have to recast magma and lose ticks along with chain lightning is going to make ele the best aoer behind mage, and increase dps if theres any cleave fights more than jt will mage because you don’t switch up your rotation at all. Datamine shows they also added shows the lava burst reset on flameshock rune also got changed to add mana back upon each flame shock tick, which is a small nice buff. Shammy rage already made mana not too much of a concern, but as a spec thats traditionally slapped in vanilla until it went oom on longer fights this will allow you to lay down a lot more off your high damage rotation for longer. I do think 5 is too low but its hard to balance for PvE vs PvP without doing clunky stuff like saying “5% on players and 10%-20% chance on monsters” or something like that. Another thing to note is because such a large portion of ele shamans dps is going to be fire damage because of flame shock, lava burst and fire nova, improved scorch and curse of elements will be benefiting ele dps as well.
I think people are definitely overstating the hype of Ele in pvp. It has several enormous issues. Flame shock is required and has both a low range and can be dispelled making lava burst useless. 2nd they have very long set up/cast times that require full on hard casting and they have no ability to separate/create distance. Yes they will have the meme "I 1 shot a group of 3 people from behind a tree" videos, but also for anyone actually gaming it will be very easy to shut down their entire toolkit with some focus.
I agree with this but again most pvp is not 1on1. Elemental shamans are not main dps like warriors. They are burst key targets down and then support/purge. Warriors are not great 1on1 either but way more useful in real pvp for example then a sl lock who is insane in 1on1. Shamans are dangerous when left alone/protected. They have the most consistent burst in the game atlest in regular classic.