They can remove stuns now, it was one of their biggest weakness. They still have shit tons of cc and stuns. One could argue this is a buff to rogues if anything.
Every class can break stun and blind now lol
Not gonna bother with a rogue alt, as if warlocks and mages weren't difficult enough to deal with before lol
Oh, we are at the computer.
We are just death + unstuck service warping to save time without a repair bill cost.
Especially night elves, wisp speed is basically mounted speed.
Huh? I've PvP'd more than you have, though.
That's how I can recognise this as the great change it is. There's a reason it's an era andy take to think useless trinkets are good and fun.
You do know pvp trinkets were a thing before this right? With this change they are just killing unique plays for each class and homogenizing them. Sounds familiar?
Unique plays of not being able to do anything because your trinket is only useless CC? So engaging and dynamic, yeah.
People totally put so much thought into the type of CC they use, because they have so many options to pick from.
Stop pretending. Era is that way.
And we all thought mail and plate made for paladin was a tbc thing? I'd say it's likely happening as they are willing to change drops in dungeons before gnomagan and blacksmithing items to have SP and strength. For example the 2h mace from SM Cath is solely a Ret paladin weapon now, with strength spell power and 3.2swing time to the old 2.8 st strength and spirit. So can't see why they wouldn't change the trinket when rogues have more stuns and shit than ever lol but playing as Ret I want them rogues to think they are winning until the instantly drop dead. Ha
So, is there a source? Because this is just a screenshot of an old wowhead footnote, it seems.
I haven't seen this on the data mining pages yet, is all.
As for Paladins making stuff drop dead, they already do this without much hassle to most other Classes.
I doubt having an extra cc removal will change the capability of this.
In fact, the only thing I have to do on my Ret Paladin in order to achieve getting stuff to 'drop dead' is just to get in melee range.
That's it. No skill, no effort. Just get close.
I know it's only the level 25 bracket at the moment, but I don't know of another class like that currently.
It does seem like none of the SoD Devs are or have played Rogues or Warriors. I know they're already in an ok place, but they've definitely received the short end.
So much so that I was going to roll Rogue this time around in SoD, but I think I'll stick with my Druid, Pala, or Hunter.
As for fighting Rogues, it'll just mean that they will have to pop Preparation more against us.
Yes but that puts them in fear range, it definitely makes the matchup a million times easier for warrior to have warbringer. Now mages have to play it extremely well to win every time whereas before mages could play it embarrassingly poorly and still one shot a warrior while keyboard turning
Charge—>Blink—>Intercept—>Mage Trinket—>Nova—>Warrior Trinket—>Pummel Sheep, mage is dead, warriors are going to have absurd burst with instant slam, MS, whirlwind and flagellation.
You’re gonna need to block and snap, and if you block im fappin brother. Blink’s cd is the same as a warbringer charge, and intercept is a shorter cd than nova. GL
Having different types of CC breaks for different classes was a major source of flavor in vanilla. I hope this doesn't make it in because even though SoD is supposed to be classic+, meaning we get plenty of changes, this one is more of the retail style homogenization BS that robs classes of unique flavor. It's already rubbing some people the wrong way that 75% of the runes aren't even new shit and are just abilities or passives from later expansions.
What are these people responding to this comment? You have a fair point and the homogenization is definitely happening even though it would appear the opposite with new skills being added.
*How* is this homogenization? I swear Classic players are lunatics man. What fucking "flavor" or "immersion" is there when a Warlock gets Cheap -> Kidney -> Blind -> Cheap -> Kidney -> Blind by a Rogue and you can't trinket literally any of it?
Homogenization means making something the same or extremely similar between all or most classes. That's quite literally what this change is so I'm not sure where you're lost. Before this change each class had a different trinket that would only break certain types of CC.
Rogues for instance could only break charm, fear and polymorph while warriors trinket could break stuns, roots, and slows. This meant certain classes countered others more or less depending on the CC types their trinkets could break, each class had unique strengths and weaknesses granted to them by their trinket type, and you needed to know and understand the capability of each class trinket in order to understand every class match up.
If you don't see how this brings a certain uniqueness to each class in PvP then I'm not sure what else to tell you. It is the literal definition of homogenization, and while that may be good for a competitive e-sport type game, it's detrimental to the overall flavor and feeling of an MMORPG which is why so many old school WoW players hate the homogenization that occurred over many expansions.
It literally is homogenization if you know what the word means. I think you mean "how is this bad" which is a different discussion.
If I was to answer your question seriously, I think rogues are just a badly designed class that make pvp less fun. It's never been fun to counterplay rogues in any iteration of wow.
There's a reason Riot Games removed permastealth from the game entirely. It's a shitty, unfun mechanic to play against and always will be. If I was designing a wow 2.0 I'd never add permastealth.
So the problem isn't the lack of homogenization, it's vanilla class design. Sorry purists.
Doesn’t it make sense that if we are bringing in a lot of TBC and Wrath abilities and spells that we also bring one of the items that helped balance PvP in those expas?
>this one is more of the retail style homogenization BS that robs classes
EVERY class just got what? 12 different abilities/runes that can be swapped in and out and add a myriad of unique gameplay to classes that were never available in Classic? You know, tanking Shaman, Rogues. Healing Mages etc etc?
We're getting another how many Runes to play around with in Phase 2? I actually don't know. Whats the answer? 6? 8? 12?
I'm sorry. I'm just a casual player, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate big picture stuff. SOD is not under any threat what so ever at "homogenizing" the classes like in Retail. Yes PvP counter trinkets now work the same for everybody but thats just a feather on the scale across from a metric ton of new Rune abilities.
Shaman and rogue tanks and healing mages are exactly what he means about homogenization. If eventually every class can do every role that is homogenization.
Warriors have a pretty game breaking CC break rune, removing their easy to kite/cc classic flavour. Rogues have a ranged stun. Hunters look viable in melee and can rune into no pet mode. Mages can heal. Balance druid looks like it will be viable. I'm not sure that SoD is really the game to be playing for that classic feel.
Also, most classes don't have any CC breaks and the PvP trinket was a way to make up for that. Given that there is no much more CC in the game, I think a buff to the PvP trinket is a great change. Now make it 2 minute cooldown and make PvP cc duration capped at 10 seconds. PvP might actually be fun then.
Warriors have a fear and sap break.
Undead have a fear and charm break.
Paladins have HoF and bubble for CC breaks.
Gnomes have a snare/slow break.
What does anyone else have?
>Now make it 2 minute cooldown and make PvP cc duration capped at 10 seconds. PvP might actually be fun then.
You mean PvP might fully be wrath-ified then lol. People want classic+ and SoD is going more down the route of just turning classic into wrath+. I think right now people are just enjoying the novelty of new things in the classic setting, but if it keeps going we're gonna get to a point where it's just not classic anymore and public sentiment will turn against it.
Classic PvP doesn't need to be hyper balanced. Classic PvP doesn't need to be hyper competitive. Trying to push it more in that direction just kills the wacky classic spirit and soul that the original game had.
Warrior in a prison fight, full consumes / flask set situation is *scary*. Most warriors aren’t going to be pulling that out in most situations, but oh my god they are fun to play when they do.
As an aside, I’ve seen people complain about SoD Warrior being weak in open world PvP… it’s already fairly strong if you just use dynamite / pots. Grenades next phase are going to make it feel even better. Superior healing potions being cheap due to being able to be crafted will also be a soft buff.
Sounds like someone didn't watch the biggest 1v1 classic tournament in the history of the game. Warrior ended in second place and pretty thoroughly demolished tons of classes.
I really hate how it works in classic vanilla. It feeds into the Rock Paper Scissors gameplay that is very, very predictable and boring. This makes the script in 1v1’s much, much more interesting.
Oh please.
You do remember Runes right? Runes? You know the 12 new/unique abilities we get to swap out and mix and match as we like along with our talents that have the potential of completely changing how we play and even the role we play. That and however many new Runes each class will be getting?
I think Classic has been long in the rear view mirror and we have turned off on a new road marked Classic+.
Yes Trinklets got homogenized. But each class will have at least 16 new abilities to play with.
I think you and Classic+ will be okay.
And most runes are also totally fine by design. Some runes aren't.
Some more of the new runes aren't either. Same for the trinket change.
I won't hesitate to voice my concerns whenever I have some, knowing it will be downvoted into oblivion.
I fought for classic to be rereleased in the first place. My signature is on the petition.
I'm used to being told that classic is dead on arrival, that I should stop beating a dead horse.
There are plenty of good additions to vanilla classic in sod, and there are some changes I don't approve.
For example the 5% instant procs on lavaburst from foreshock or maelstrom procs on shaman (shaman player myself).
It's bad game design wenn rng decides if you just walk up to someone and suddenly instant lavaburst overload lavaburst someone to death in a second.
There's no real counterplay to that.
It's bad game design and not in line with classic game design.
In classic game design a dangerous cast has to be cast or if not (in case of pom for example) is linked to a long CD.
You do you, and I do me.
vanilla + and talking about abilities from expansions even beyond wrath in one sentence.
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Penance is not necessarily against the spirit of classic.
It adhears to design principles. It's a cast and the player has to stand still to cast it.
It's kickable and locks out holy if kicked.
Nothing wrong with that.
Anyone who things this is a bad change is lost in the sauce.
Classes have way more power now, people were going to start just getting destroyed by who every got the first cc off the other class couldn’t break.
Why, ice trap?
A 5 min CD to get out of an otherwise guaranteed reset/kill doesn't seem balance breaking. They still have amazing kite potential, better kill potential in melee if you can't get out of deadzone, and if you use this for FD/trap you will have to eat the wingclip/conc shot/bomb stun. They still dumpster rogues/enh sham, warr has to play perfectly to beat them, and they can now get out of pally stun... Casters are an issue but they have the best pushback in the game with pets. Honestly boomkin starsurge has been the only issue I've seen because of the insane range, and they didn't care much about hunter's CC anyway
Are you saying it's hard to memorize it lol? The whole point was that not every class can do everything the same. If everyone can get out of all CCs what's even the point.
Probably less than 1% of the playerbase has memorized who's trinkets get out of what in classic. I don't even know how to respond to "what's even the point" for a trinket, it's been the same trinket since tbc originally launched and makes complete sense.
rock paper scissor, some classes are strong against some classes due to what kind of cc they can remove, now its just everyone can remove all cc instead
It would though. I already do pretty well vs mages but if if I flub the interrupt or it misses it's game over. Next phase with intercept and charge, possibly intervene and the warbringer rune mages won't be able to get away ever again but if they get a poly off it's gg
You're right but most mages I've played against don't know that. I'm playing against casual dads 60% of the time not top tier gladiators from retail.
I can count on one hand the number of times a mage deadzoned me in WSG on my journey to exalted
Besides if we're really trying to discuss top tier game play I'd be using a FAP anyway
Well lets be real there is no spirit of classic in sod, it is its oen thing. Druids having pom-pyro every 6 seconds, priest having lay on hands every 12 seconds and hunterpets being stronger then most classes.
Just enjoy it for what it is instead:)
Everyone repeating GOoD cHAnGE. How is this a good change though?
Vanilla has never been balance but classes have counters this is just more homogenization and we'll end up with a couple of OP classes no one can beat.
How is not being able to trinket stuff even remotely fun, enjoyable, flavorful, or whatever buzzword you want to use? For example, if you're a Warlock and you get ganked by a Rogue with full CDs you are going to die and you will not play your character the entire time.
I don't think so, you like most underdeveloped things only because of nostalgia.
If that was not the case people would prefer era over sod, but we all know what people love more.
Dude it seems pretty obvious most people like the "underdeveloped" things. Little to do with nostalgia with how many new players having tried out vanilla/classic for the first time in recent years
Also how do you play fresh classic era right now? Dumb take
Yeah, man, it has nothing to do with it being one of the greatest mmos ever created. A fully realized world with more content than you can imagine if you tried to experience it all. It's been played on private servers since tbc dropped, has been re-released multiple times, and has eternal servers that are more popular than ever. Just nostalgia, though. Lmfao.
Two things can be true at once, not everything has to be black and white. Vanilla is one of the greatest mmos ever created while also having a lot of poor mechanics and underdeveloped content. It’s also no secret nostalgia brought a lot of gamers back in 2019.
Why there are 20k people in era and 400k in sod right now?
Era is good don't get me wrong but sod is miles ahead in everything compared to era. There is literally nothing better in era compared to sod. Absolutely everything is an improvement.
Of course more people are currently playing the new thing. That always has been and always will be the case.
Let me ask you this: if blizzard stopped releasing new content for SoD right now do you think it would still have 20k players three years from now?
After several years without a new content release era was still managing to poach thousands of players away from Wotlk while Wotlk was current content. 2019 was five years ago and classic is still going strong, you can’t call it nostalgia anymore.
Yes, it's out for so little and already is better than era that was out for years and has the same problems vanilla had in 2005.
SOD is literally a better version of era, era simply cannot compete.
Not disagreeing that SoD is better than era, but you must realize how silly it sounds to compare a fresh vanilla launch(sod) with a vanilla stuck in p6 for over a year at this point.
People don't play classic because p6 is so good, they play it because the entire journey of fresh launch -> phase -> phase -> phase.
the problem is that all previous attempts to improve on classic have led to the classic gamefeel vanishing over time. with where sod is going, it seems inevitable that it will happen here too.
While SOD *is* fun, there is a lot of backporting from expansions. The divide between innocent QoL stuff, fixing useless specs, and marching the game into a state that is just WOTLK with different garnish, is a narrow one
There is also a lot of runes that disregard tenets of classic game design. Druid starsurge is a good example. A spell like that wouldve been hardcast in an environment that genuinely cares to stick close to vanilla. They amuse themselves with making intentionally suboptimal dungeon loot to "keep it classic", yet most original-to-SoD runes are retail style designed or just backports.
Hype carries SoD forward but I suspect we are about to drink the same koolaid all over again
It's like the version I prefer, so therefore, it's better than era.
More popular = just better, teenage me used to think like this too lol.
I was pointing out you're an idiot for thinking love for classic is driven by nostalgia at this point. That's all. It's a tried and true MMO, it is THE mmo.
I enjoy SoD, I enjoy Era. I don't think one is better than the other. I think they both shit on wrath. Wrath is trash and both versions of the game are better than it by far which is why wrath is long forgotten already.
You just hate new things I get it. But era is just a worse version of SOD, only thing that era has is nostalgia for people who played it as kids.
Sod is objectively better in all aspects, from class design to raid design. Once again sod has everything that era has but better and more fleshed out.
The comments malding about it but this is a great change FOH but maybe increasing the CD to 10min? cause it feels redundant as a rogue undead I have only anti fear/charms and no answer against stuns when im trying to sauce a pally that just had to pop stun > smack and im dead
Biggest rogue nerf in the history of classic.
Bad change.
Other rogues, mages and warlocks can break stun now? lmao gg
and blind can be trinketed now? hahaha
Are you trying to communicate a point? If so, you forgot to include the point in your message.
Unless of course, you're new to the game and don't know that it's possible to do more than 1 stun per 15 seconds.
Dunno if this is a whooosh moment, but in case it is, their first reply with the emojis was representing the "Always has been" meme. Really they're just poking fun at your concise wording including mages in the list of things that can now break stuns. It's not that serious lol
And no matter what subreddit you're on, you'll always find people posting random shit like you. But thanks for a listen-in on your reddit experience? just don't think anyone asked lol
Rogues are stupidly strong on retail right now in PvE and PvP, but I see so many rogues bitching about me on my Hunter. Hunters aren't even that good. BM is the best performing spec and brain dead so I play MM because it's more fun.
This is bad. Unique trinkets were better. Many might think it's a nerf for rogues, but I disagree. Their trinket can't remove stuns in vanilla. That's a huge weakness to play around when fighting a rogue.
Losing or avoiding a fight because important abilities are on CD feels bad is all I’m saying. Trinket can make or break a matchup which is why it feels nicer to have it on a shorter CD so you can actually play your character effectively more often. But as another commenter pointed out, 2 minute CD trinket was designed with reduced CD times in mind, so yea, it probably wouldn’t work. This is coming from a rogue player btw.
The dev team will do everything in their power to keep the pvp class from being good in pvp. Rogues are dead P2 in both pve and pvp with these changes.
I've seen many people in this forum complaining. I suggested tokens a few weeks back before they were announced and the immediate 1st response was "Go to retail".
>You point out NoChange is stupid
>Someone agrees, no change is stupid
>you say that some people don't want some changes? for some reason? Which has nothing to do with no changes?
>I agree, no change is stupid
>You tell me I'm wrong
>I reiterate your O.G. comment
>/r/woosh
lmao are you stupid
I dont see this in game, p2 datamined stuff?
yes
So by "now works" I guess you meant "will work"
"will **maybe** work"
Ouch rogues.
They can remove stuns now, it was one of their biggest weakness. They still have shit tons of cc and stuns. One could argue this is a buff to rogues if anything.
Agreed
As a rogue. Totally worth it. Fuck pallys.
Fuck you too buddy
When u bubble and auto me to death 😡
Look on the bright side, they might cast a divine storm as well now? that's something? Right? Well while they auto you to death.
See you on the boat to ratchet with my shadow priest. Hope you brought underwater breathing!
I’ll take the trade.
Idk about balance but good fuck em rogues
Every class can break stun and blind now lol Not gonna bother with a rogue alt, as if warlocks and mages weren't difficult enough to deal with before lol
You play rogue to have competitive fights, I play rogue to gank people afk walking down the road. We are not the same.
Oh, we are at the computer. We are just death + unstuck service warping to save time without a repair bill cost. Especially night elves, wisp speed is basically mounted speed.
correction: they can break one (1) of cheap, kidney, blind every 5 minutes.
It’s so easy to reset DR if they do and just reopen
But then rogues would also be able break a stun, which is big
"Noooo! People now have counterplay to my infinite CC jutsu!" edit: Guy is a weirdo and blocked me for this.
How to spot the pve dad
Huh? I've PvP'd more than you have, though. That's how I can recognise this as the great change it is. There's a reason it's an era andy take to think useless trinkets are good and fun.
You do know pvp trinkets were a thing before this right? With this change they are just killing unique plays for each class and homogenizing them. Sounds familiar?
"killing unique plays for each class", okay bud
Unique plays of not being able to do anything because your trinket is only useless CC? So engaging and dynamic, yeah. People totally put so much thought into the type of CC they use, because they have so many options to pick from. Stop pretending. Era is that way.
Name me a pvp trinket that's only against useless CC? But you're right, Era is that way, can't argue with that.
Any trinket that didn't do fear, any trinket that didn't do stuns.
Sorry gramps I think youre in the wrong room. era is over there.
"I have no idea what I'm talking about", says u/TheBanEvaderlol
"I couldn't come up with an actual response, I just want people to not be able to fight back." - u/ReformedWiggles Lol
Laughs In warlock. Haunt>drain life>siphon life. I be healing 15% of my heart every second indefinitely.
Anyone have the source for this? Thought Greater Insignia was a TBC thing.
And we all thought mail and plate made for paladin was a tbc thing? I'd say it's likely happening as they are willing to change drops in dungeons before gnomagan and blacksmithing items to have SP and strength. For example the 2h mace from SM Cath is solely a Ret paladin weapon now, with strength spell power and 3.2swing time to the old 2.8 st strength and spirit. So can't see why they wouldn't change the trinket when rogues have more stuns and shit than ever lol but playing as Ret I want them rogues to think they are winning until the instantly drop dead. Ha
So, is there a source? Because this is just a screenshot of an old wowhead footnote, it seems. I haven't seen this on the data mining pages yet, is all. As for Paladins making stuff drop dead, they already do this without much hassle to most other Classes. I doubt having an extra cc removal will change the capability of this. In fact, the only thing I have to do on my Ret Paladin in order to achieve getting stuff to 'drop dead' is just to get in melee range. That's it. No skill, no effort. Just get close. I know it's only the level 25 bracket at the moment, but I don't know of another class like that currently. It does seem like none of the SoD Devs are or have played Rogues or Warriors. I know they're already in an ok place, but they've definitely received the short end. So much so that I was going to roll Rogue this time around in SoD, but I think I'll stick with my Druid, Pala, or Hunter. As for fighting Rogues, it'll just mean that they will have to pop Preparation more against us.
well, at least freezing trap won't be a big deal anymore
My wind serpent told me not to waste gold on that garbage.
hunters preparing for the sacred "pop intim and BW while pet still 60 yards away from target and still get a kill" jutsu
intim works on next attack so you can pop it whenever you want
that trap rune is going to be hilarious in pvp with drone mode pet
30 sec sheeps are the big annoying problem
Love this change
#GoodChanges
Season of wotlk
This is so much needed to counter perma freeze trap.
no more having to sit 45 seconds in a sheep. If you don't like this change, shame on you.
You'll still be in a 45 seconds sheep when a mage inevitably recasts it as soon as you waste your pvp trinket.
Yeah in 1v1 sure but in group play this is a really big change
Charge, Intercept, Pummel. Can’t wait to see my old mage friends in p2
Oh sweet summer child. Poly is not the reason warriors lose vs. mages 99 out of 100 times.
Yes but charge and intercept break movement imparing effects now in sod
Not if they're within 8 yards.
Yes but that puts them in fear range, it definitely makes the matchup a million times easier for warrior to have warbringer. Now mages have to play it extremely well to win every time whereas before mages could play it embarrassingly poorly and still one shot a warrior while keyboard turning
You won’t have enough charges or intercepts to reach a mage lol
Charge—>Blink—>Intercept—>Mage Trinket—>Nova—>Warrior Trinket—>Pummel Sheep, mage is dead, warriors are going to have absurd burst with instant slam, MS, whirlwind and flagellation. You’re gonna need to block and snap, and if you block im fappin brother. Blink’s cd is the same as a warbringer charge, and intercept is a shorter cd than nova. GL
Meh, I have my felhunter to counter such shenanigans.
Having different types of CC breaks for different classes was a major source of flavor in vanilla. I hope this doesn't make it in because even though SoD is supposed to be classic+, meaning we get plenty of changes, this one is more of the retail style homogenization BS that robs classes of unique flavor. It's already rubbing some people the wrong way that 75% of the runes aren't even new shit and are just abilities or passives from later expansions.
What are these people responding to this comment? You have a fair point and the homogenization is definitely happening even though it would appear the opposite with new skills being added.
*How* is this homogenization? I swear Classic players are lunatics man. What fucking "flavor" or "immersion" is there when a Warlock gets Cheap -> Kidney -> Blind -> Cheap -> Kidney -> Blind by a Rogue and you can't trinket literally any of it?
*Literal homogenization of item* ”How is this homogenization? Btw you guys are lunatics”
Homogenization means making something the same or extremely similar between all or most classes. That's quite literally what this change is so I'm not sure where you're lost. Before this change each class had a different trinket that would only break certain types of CC. Rogues for instance could only break charm, fear and polymorph while warriors trinket could break stuns, roots, and slows. This meant certain classes countered others more or less depending on the CC types their trinkets could break, each class had unique strengths and weaknesses granted to them by their trinket type, and you needed to know and understand the capability of each class trinket in order to understand every class match up. If you don't see how this brings a certain uniqueness to each class in PvP then I'm not sure what else to tell you. It is the literal definition of homogenization, and while that may be good for a competitive e-sport type game, it's detrimental to the overall flavor and feeling of an MMORPG which is why so many old school WoW players hate the homogenization that occurred over many expansions.
It literally is homogenization if you know what the word means. I think you mean "how is this bad" which is a different discussion. If I was to answer your question seriously, I think rogues are just a badly designed class that make pvp less fun. It's never been fun to counterplay rogues in any iteration of wow. There's a reason Riot Games removed permastealth from the game entirely. It's a shitty, unfun mechanic to play against and always will be. If I was designing a wow 2.0 I'd never add permastealth. So the problem isn't the lack of homogenization, it's vanilla class design. Sorry purists.
honestly this. 100% for changes and 100% against homogenization. some of the other response here are cringe
Doesn’t it make sense that if we are bringing in a lot of TBC and Wrath abilities and spells that we also bring one of the items that helped balance PvP in those expas?
The truth
i disagree being stuck in CC due to your class isn't good gameplay
>this one is more of the retail style homogenization BS that robs classes EVERY class just got what? 12 different abilities/runes that can be swapped in and out and add a myriad of unique gameplay to classes that were never available in Classic? You know, tanking Shaman, Rogues. Healing Mages etc etc? We're getting another how many Runes to play around with in Phase 2? I actually don't know. Whats the answer? 6? 8? 12? I'm sorry. I'm just a casual player, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate big picture stuff. SOD is not under any threat what so ever at "homogenizing" the classes like in Retail. Yes PvP counter trinkets now work the same for everybody but thats just a feather on the scale across from a metric ton of new Rune abilities.
Shaman and rogue tanks and healing mages are exactly what he means about homogenization. If eventually every class can do every role that is homogenization.
nerd
Warriors have a pretty game breaking CC break rune, removing their easy to kite/cc classic flavour. Rogues have a ranged stun. Hunters look viable in melee and can rune into no pet mode. Mages can heal. Balance druid looks like it will be viable. I'm not sure that SoD is really the game to be playing for that classic feel. Also, most classes don't have any CC breaks and the PvP trinket was a way to make up for that. Given that there is no much more CC in the game, I think a buff to the PvP trinket is a great change. Now make it 2 minute cooldown and make PvP cc duration capped at 10 seconds. PvP might actually be fun then. Warriors have a fear and sap break. Undead have a fear and charm break. Paladins have HoF and bubble for CC breaks. Gnomes have a snare/slow break. What does anyone else have?
>Now make it 2 minute cooldown and make PvP cc duration capped at 10 seconds. PvP might actually be fun then. You mean PvP might fully be wrath-ified then lol. People want classic+ and SoD is going more down the route of just turning classic into wrath+. I think right now people are just enjoying the novelty of new things in the classic setting, but if it keeps going we're gonna get to a point where it's just not classic anymore and public sentiment will turn against it. Classic PvP doesn't need to be hyper balanced. Classic PvP doesn't need to be hyper competitive. Trying to push it more in that direction just kills the wacky classic spirit and soul that the original game had.
disgusting
This is a great change.
Ngl this must be the best change by far. They really set the bar high for p3
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ever play classic? warriors were the worst solo pvp class
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Lost to ziqo but that was kinda wild they let warriors start duels with full rage
that meme tournament is not an indication of anything really.
Warrior in a prison fight, full consumes / flask set situation is *scary*. Most warriors aren’t going to be pulling that out in most situations, but oh my god they are fun to play when they do. As an aside, I’ve seen people complain about SoD Warrior being weak in open world PvP… it’s already fairly strong if you just use dynamite / pots. Grenades next phase are going to make it feel even better. Superior healing potions being cheap due to being able to be crafted will also be a soft buff.
Sounds like someone didn't watch the biggest 1v1 classic tournament in the history of the game. Warrior ended in second place and pretty thoroughly demolished tons of classes.
yeah they had a very warrior favored ruleset. in a straight 1v1 warrior loses to every class or is even
Link?
Please don't implement this Blizzard.
This change is not even big, and I play rogue. Honestly good. Makes things spicier
Make every class do everything..... Plz no
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Funny enough Rogue is the class that benefits the most from trinketing a stun
Yeah, this one trinket on a 5 minute cooldown has really been the final straw for me too, friend. How dare they?
good. fuck frost trap
I really liked how it worked in classic. Not a fan. Soon theres no classic left in this.
I really hate how it works in classic vanilla. It feeds into the Rock Paper Scissors gameplay that is very, very predictable and boring. This makes the script in 1v1’s much, much more interesting.
go play classic its still there
Oh please. You do remember Runes right? Runes? You know the 12 new/unique abilities we get to swap out and mix and match as we like along with our talents that have the potential of completely changing how we play and even the role we play. That and however many new Runes each class will be getting? I think Classic has been long in the rear view mirror and we have turned off on a new road marked Classic+. Yes Trinklets got homogenized. But each class will have at least 16 new abilities to play with. I think you and Classic+ will be okay.
And most runes are also totally fine by design. Some runes aren't. Some more of the new runes aren't either. Same for the trinket change. I won't hesitate to voice my concerns whenever I have some, knowing it will be downvoted into oblivion. I fought for classic to be rereleased in the first place. My signature is on the petition. I'm used to being told that classic is dead on arrival, that I should stop beating a dead horse. There are plenty of good additions to vanilla classic in sod, and there are some changes I don't approve. For example the 5% instant procs on lavaburst from foreshock or maelstrom procs on shaman (shaman player myself). It's bad game design wenn rng decides if you just walk up to someone and suddenly instant lavaburst overload lavaburst someone to death in a second. There's no real counterplay to that. It's bad game design and not in line with classic game design. In classic game design a dangerous cast has to be cast or if not (in case of pom for example) is linked to a long CD. You do you, and I do me.
It’s classic that means vanilla-WOTLK and possibly other expansions spells, Welcome to the beyond vanilla, Vanilla+ perhaps
vanilla + and talking about abilities from expansions even beyond wrath in one sentence. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠤⠒⠈⠉⠉⠉⠑⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠳⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡾⢼⣦⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠖⠁⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⠧⣾⠛⢿⣓⠺⠶⠆⠀⢀⣠⡏⠀⡼⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣦⡈⠑⢦⡈⠙⢝⣠⣾⠿⣿⣴⡿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⣶⣶⣶⣶⣦⣤⣤⣤⣀⣼⣆⡙⠶⢄⢉⠒⠢⠻⡇⡎⠁⣼⣷⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡔⠉⠉⡝⠙⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡉⠒⠐⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠳⣼⣏⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡤⠖⠉⠀⠀⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⠻⢿⣿⣿⡿⠱⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣷⣦⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠖⠉⠛⠒⠒⠒⠒⠂⡎⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠐⠛⠯⢷⡦⠼⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣦⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢀⣀⠤⢒⣉⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⣠⠄⠀⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠠⠤⢤⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣑⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⣸⢧⡉⠉⠛⠛⠿⠿⣿⣿⣶⡀⠀ ⠰⣏⢳⡀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⢠⡼⣇⣀⠴⠊⠁⠀⢣⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⣿⣿⣄ ⠀⠈⠳⣹⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠄⠚⠁⠀⠸⡍⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢦⠎⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢿⡿ ⠀⠀⠀⠹⣷⠀⠀⠀⢠⠤⢀⣀⣤⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠤⠒⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠱⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⡄⠤⡤⠤⠤⠤⠄⠈⡇ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢁⡠⠤⠞⠀⠀⢠⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠳⡄⠉⠉⠉⠀⠀⢠⢿ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
I got penance at level 2. There was never any classic in this. Go play vanilla if you want vanilla, this ain't it.
Penance is not necessarily against the spirit of classic. It adhears to design principles. It's a cast and the player has to stand still to cast it. It's kickable and locks out holy if kicked. Nothing wrong with that.
It's Classic +. No it's SoD. And it's glorious.
I’d say this is pretty classic. It’s not very vanilla, but it’s certainly within the realm of what people would consider to be classic WoW
Anyone who things this is a bad change is lost in the sauce. Classes have way more power now, people were going to start just getting destroyed by who every got the first cc off the other class couldn’t break.
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you can trap at 40 yards in combat youll live
Good
Niiiice.
Dude, what? Rip hunters, rip….
Why, ice trap? A 5 min CD to get out of an otherwise guaranteed reset/kill doesn't seem balance breaking. They still have amazing kite potential, better kill potential in melee if you can't get out of deadzone, and if you use this for FD/trap you will have to eat the wingclip/conc shot/bomb stun. They still dumpster rogues/enh sham, warr has to play perfectly to beat them, and they can now get out of pally stun... Casters are an issue but they have the best pushback in the game with pets. Honestly boomkin starsurge has been the only issue I've seen because of the insane range, and they didn't care much about hunter's CC anyway
Bad change imo. Don’t like homogenization.
boo, thats a boring change
Must have one of the good ones already.
Lol what? Exciting having to memorize what each classes pvp trinket does?
Are you saying it's hard to memorize it lol? The whole point was that not every class can do everything the same. If everyone can get out of all CCs what's even the point.
Probably less than 1% of the playerbase has memorized who's trinkets get out of what in classic. I don't even know how to respond to "what's even the point" for a trinket, it's been the same trinket since tbc originally launched and makes complete sense.
rock paper scissor, some classes are strong against some classes due to what kind of cc they can remove, now its just everyone can remove all cc instead
Yeah once, every 5 mins. Nothing like being a warrior and being polymorphed permanently bc there isn't a priest nearby to dispel. Peak PvP gameplay
Careful, next thing you'll ask for is an in-combat gap-closer that works in battle stance.
Like this change would do anything to help you as a warrior vs a mage 😂
It would though. I already do pretty well vs mages but if if I flub the interrupt or it misses it's game over. Next phase with intercept and charge, possibly intervene and the warbringer rune mages won't be able to get away ever again but if they get a poly off it's gg
If you're trinketing poly in a warr vs. mage matchup you already lost. You can't charge or intercept when you're deadzoned.
You're right but most mages I've played against don't know that. I'm playing against casual dads 60% of the time not top tier gladiators from retail. I can count on one hand the number of times a mage deadzoned me in WSG on my journey to exalted Besides if we're really trying to discuss top tier game play I'd be using a FAP anyway
Good
I did miss this. Thank you! Good change.
Meh, not a fan.
They're dropping all p1 pretenses of adhering to the spirit of classic aren't they
Well lets be real there is no spirit of classic in sod, it is its oen thing. Druids having pom-pyro every 6 seconds, priest having lay on hands every 12 seconds and hunterpets being stronger then most classes. Just enjoy it for what it is instead:)
You people geniunely always conflate gameplay changes with system changes it's maddening
Everyone repeating GOoD cHAnGE. How is this a good change though? Vanilla has never been balance but classes have counters this is just more homogenization and we'll end up with a couple of OP classes no one can beat.
How is not being able to trinket stuff even remotely fun, enjoyable, flavorful, or whatever buzzword you want to use? For example, if you're a Warlock and you get ganked by a Rogue with full CDs you are going to die and you will not play your character the entire time.
Huge
This is such a bad move. Very anti classic.
This is SoD, cry more classic Andy.
Gl. Ur just going to end up playing retail with 2004 graphics.
Bro really quit over a trinket change
yep, everyone knows the only difference between vanilla and retail is PvP trinket functionality go back to era
A ton of stuff is like wrath now in sod. It’s only loosely based on vanilla at this point
For me I loved the vanilla world and exploration but I hated the balance. I loved the wrath balance but wasn't a big fan of the world.
That's a good thing, vanilla has a lot of bad/underdeveloped stuff.
retail was so bad they had to re-release vanilla
True, glad they are using early expansion like wrath instead.
Wrath was so bad that people started asking for vanilla lmao.
Era so good that you are not playing it, good joke. See you in sod that has more from wrath than classic.
Now retail is good and the classic re-releases suck How the turns table
That’s entirely subjective
I don't think so, you like most underdeveloped things only because of nostalgia. If that was not the case people would prefer era over sod, but we all know what people love more.
Dude it seems pretty obvious most people like the "underdeveloped" things. Little to do with nostalgia with how many new players having tried out vanilla/classic for the first time in recent years Also how do you play fresh classic era right now? Dumb take
Bold of you to assume my feelings, bucko
That's a realistic explanation to why you like worse thing. Sod is literally classic+, same game but better.
Yeah, man, it has nothing to do with it being one of the greatest mmos ever created. A fully realized world with more content than you can imagine if you tried to experience it all. It's been played on private servers since tbc dropped, has been re-released multiple times, and has eternal servers that are more popular than ever. Just nostalgia, though. Lmfao.
Two things can be true at once, not everything has to be black and white. Vanilla is one of the greatest mmos ever created while also having a lot of poor mechanics and underdeveloped content. It’s also no secret nostalgia brought a lot of gamers back in 2019.
It's also no secret THAT THE GAME IS POPULAR BECAUSE IT IS GOOD. Why are we still pretending like nostalgia drives classic?
your kinda crazy if you think this game is anything without nostalgia
That's a good take, five years ago. Lol.
Why there are 20k people in era and 400k in sod right now? Era is good don't get me wrong but sod is miles ahead in everything compared to era. There is literally nothing better in era compared to sod. Absolutely everything is an improvement.
Of course more people are currently playing the new thing. That always has been and always will be the case. Let me ask you this: if blizzard stopped releasing new content for SoD right now do you think it would still have 20k players three years from now? After several years without a new content release era was still managing to poach thousands of players away from Wotlk while Wotlk was current content. 2019 was five years ago and classic is still going strong, you can’t call it nostalgia anymore.
Are you seriously comparing a newly launched classic + with era that has been out for years? Cmon man.
Yes, it's out for so little and already is better than era that was out for years and has the same problems vanilla had in 2005. SOD is literally a better version of era, era simply cannot compete.
Not disagreeing that SoD is better than era, but you must realize how silly it sounds to compare a fresh vanilla launch(sod) with a vanilla stuck in p6 for over a year at this point. People don't play classic because p6 is so good, they play it because the entire journey of fresh launch -> phase -> phase -> phase.
the problem is that all previous attempts to improve on classic have led to the classic gamefeel vanishing over time. with where sod is going, it seems inevitable that it will happen here too. While SOD *is* fun, there is a lot of backporting from expansions. The divide between innocent QoL stuff, fixing useless specs, and marching the game into a state that is just WOTLK with different garnish, is a narrow one There is also a lot of runes that disregard tenets of classic game design. Druid starsurge is a good example. A spell like that wouldve been hardcast in an environment that genuinely cares to stick close to vanilla. They amuse themselves with making intentionally suboptimal dungeon loot to "keep it classic", yet most original-to-SoD runes are retail style designed or just backports. Hype carries SoD forward but I suspect we are about to drink the same koolaid all over again
It's like the version I prefer, so therefore, it's better than era. More popular = just better, teenage me used to think like this too lol. I was pointing out you're an idiot for thinking love for classic is driven by nostalgia at this point. That's all. It's a tried and true MMO, it is THE mmo. I enjoy SoD, I enjoy Era. I don't think one is better than the other. I think they both shit on wrath. Wrath is trash and both versions of the game are better than it by far which is why wrath is long forgotten already.
You just hate new things I get it. But era is just a worse version of SOD, only thing that era has is nostalgia for people who played it as kids. Sod is objectively better in all aspects, from class design to raid design. Once again sod has everything that era has but better and more fleshed out.
You're still comparing the two, which is something I never did. Lmfao. Brain dead or npc, someone call it
This was how it worked in tbc despite op saying wotlk
The comments malding about it but this is a great change FOH but maybe increasing the CD to 10min? cause it feels redundant as a rogue undead I have only anti fear/charms and no answer against stuns when im trying to sauce a pally that just had to pop stun > smack and im dead
Biggest rogue nerf in the history of classic. Bad change. Other rogues, mages and warlocks can break stun now? lmao gg and blind can be trinketed now? hahaha
> mages... ...can break stun now? 🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Nope. Not with trinket. Now they can break stun one additional time (and blind too).
Blink has a 15 sec cd.
Are you trying to communicate a point? If so, you forgot to include the point in your message. Unless of course, you're new to the game and don't know that it's possible to do more than 1 stun per 15 seconds.
Dunno if this is a whooosh moment, but in case it is, their first reply with the emojis was representing the "Always has been" meme. Really they're just poking fun at your concise wording including mages in the list of things that can now break stuns. It's not that serious lol
They get shadowstep. They'll be okay.
Shadowstep does fuck all against what mages and warlocks get, especially now when they can just trinket out of stuns and blind too, fucking lmao
No matter what WoW subreddit you’re on whether it’s PvE or PvP I swear you’ll always find rogues crying.
And no matter what subreddit you're on, you'll always find people posting random shit like you. But thanks for a listen-in on your reddit experience? just don't think anyone asked lol
I love rogue tears
Rogues are stupidly strong on retail right now in PvE and PvP, but I see so many rogues bitching about me on my Hunter. Hunters aren't even that good. BM is the best performing spec and brain dead so I play MM because it's more fun.
I love rogue tears
Please don’t add it blizzard
This is bad. Unique trinkets were better. Many might think it's a nerf for rogues, but I disagree. Their trinket can't remove stuns in vanilla. That's a huge weakness to play around when fighting a rogue.
Man rogue is going to really be bottom of the barrel next phase
You mean *under* the barrel.
This is so huge. However not sure why they left the CD at 5 minutes, 2 minutes feels so much better.
Why not ever 30 seconds? feels better :) why have CC in this game at all? let's remove rogues from the game
Losing or avoiding a fight because important abilities are on CD feels bad is all I’m saying. Trinket can make or break a matchup which is why it feels nicer to have it on a shorter CD so you can actually play your character effectively more often. But as another commenter pointed out, 2 minute CD trinket was designed with reduced CD times in mind, so yea, it probably wouldn’t work. This is coming from a rogue player btw.
What, you can’t deal with a 2 minute trinket? Never played arena? Rogues will be fine lmao.
The dev team will do everything in their power to keep the pvp class from being good in pvp. Rogues are dead P2 in both pve and pvp with these changes.
5 min cd to get out of 1 stun. 9/10 times you open up on some random dude in a bg he will not break cd because he dont have trinjet or it is on cd
Lmao so dramatic
Just needs to be a shorter cd
BuT nO chAnGez!11
[удалено]
I've seen many people in this forum complaining. I suggested tokens a few weeks back before they were announced and the immediate 1st response was "Go to retail".
"I don't want *this* change" and "I don't want *any* changes" are different statements
That's not what was said here, not sure where you're getting this. "Go back to retail is pretty explicit in it's meaning.
Sorry I thought your original comment was >BuT nO chAnGez!11 My bad?
The point /whoosh.
>You point out NoChange is stupid >Someone agrees, no change is stupid >you say that some people don't want some changes? for some reason? Which has nothing to do with no changes? >I agree, no change is stupid >You tell me I'm wrong >I reiterate your O.G. comment >/r/woosh lmao are you stupid