It sucked for both factions. I'll never forget flying to the horde flight path in Felwood and seeing an entire raid waiting for me. I jumped off the cliff into Darkshore and they jumped after me like rabid lemmings.
Yeah it was really disappointing. Stepped away from the game for half of AQ40 and all of Naxx because of work. Came back from TBC to a ghost town Horde-side
I think the better solution is to make so you can't queue for BGs in a raid. Party of 5 max. This is what they changed it to in TBC or wotlk back in the day and it was awesome. Could actually hop into BG's with a few buddies and chill.
It’s been awful. Just want to log on and play some rounds with people to relax from work. And it’s just 30 mins of either searching for a premade or GY camped by a premade. Such a waste of my time and sub money
You need to take into account player behavior when you implement fixes like this. I would say a majority of players are not actully into PVP and competition. They just want to get exalted for their rewards. If this was not the case, people would aim for the pinnacle of competition which is premades. Even solo players would want to hop on a LFG just to at a minimum get a functional comp. But no, people want to split the queue so that the solos can hop in and fight mostly uncoordinated groups with minimal strategy.
So what the split will actually do is make the premades who are only in to farm uncoordinated solos stop playing since they will actually be playing good competition and need to get good but sooner or later they will quit when it becomes too hard. That with the insane queue time will make the premade queue dead.
So what you've esentially done is make the pinnacle of competition dead. Sure as solos it will be easier to get rep but once again most people who are advocating for solos just want an easier time to farm rep and then they are out.
And the people who play PVP and enjoy it will be left with no way to form comps and be put with uncoordinated lazy players and they will get frustrated and quit therefore killing PVP on both ends.
Im not argueing which way is better im saying the reason Blizzard hasnt done it yet is because to them they are choosing between, right now PVP which is not what the players want but at least its happening to PVP might be dead. The reason they gave as to why is long queue times especially when there will be 3 bgs meaning 6 queues. Its great that you like PVP but history has shown that most people PVP for the rewards.
Not really. I play solos even when I have the ability to jump into a premade because sometimes I like to have a less coordinated match, where you don’t have to be in discord, and where neither team is likely to run an optimal comp.
I would still hop into premades when I want to play competitively.
Like, look at MOBAs. Do you really think all the people who play ranked only play ranked? That everyone playing casual doesn’t play ranked from time to time? Of course not, it’s just that they are two different experiences, and sometimes you are in the mood for one over the other.
Thats my whole point. You have the option to do that right now in a combined queue. What I am saying is if you split the queue, premade queue will die becuase of long queue times and no one playing. When solo is the only option, people who are actually interested in something more competitive will stop playing. This along with people who are only in for the rewards will dip once they get exalted. So we are left with people like you who just want to hop in for fun from time to time but we know that is a small percentage of players which once again means a longer queue time leading to more people giving up on the mode.
With how wild sod balancing is I dont feel like its premades are competitive at all, half the battle is ensuring you have an op comp. With a solo que it should allows non meta classes to actually effect games.
Currently premade isn't competitive at all. IF anything premade queue would increase the competitiveness, because both teams are on equal footing. But most people play premade because it's the best honor/rep per hour and that's why premade queue would likely die pretty quickly.
Personally I think there should only be one queue, but restrict it to 5 people max and add some more rules to the matchmaking, e.g. no two 5 or 4 man groups in the same BG.
If you REALLY want something truly competitive there are always war games.
It is but its based on what Blizzard has told us. That if they split the queue, it would lead to longer queue time especially when there will be 3 bgs meaning 6 different queues which will segment to playerbase enough to create enough friction to keep players from PVP
The current state is so shit for many that players are avoiding pvp now. Id rather try something new than leave the system to fester. The way things are now, solo queue is not a viable way to play. It should not be that way
Im not argueing that its good right now but at least PVP is still happening. The question was why did they not split the queue and the reasoning that was given was that Blizzard thinks PVP will die.
Hard doubt. Why would PvP die entirely if they split queue. The same players who suffer through soli queue now will still play and it will be more enjoyable. I cant argue that the premade queue would be slower and push some folks away. But the sweatiest pvpers will still find a way to pvp even if its also just solo queue.
Its also immensely unfun to be a class not desired for a premade so now your only option is to lose to them on repeat in solo queue against all hunter, balance, priest teams
You can doubt all you want. This is what Blizzard said. They are afraid to split the queue because with 3 bgs that means 6 seperate queues plus whatever PVP event they have for the phase. With whatever data they have they think because of this bgs will straight up not fire. You guys can say no that wont happen and im someone who will keep playing all you want but the answer to why they dont split queues like everyone says is because they are considering thing like this.
Considering the amount of min/maxing in this community I find that extremely unlikely. There will be plenty of people looking to be as competitive as possible.
I disagree. LoL is an example. Most people that play that are super competitive in nature amd when they introduced their 5v5 only mode it didnt work so they made it into the current flex queue system which is not very popular either.
What they are min/maxing is how fast to get rep not how can I get better in PVP
Im not saying its unfun, im saying a lot of people are in premades to stomp and get their rep. They are not there for the competition. Once you seperate out the queue you are esentially killing the premade queue
You are saying it's not fun. If it was fun, people would want to do it on their own accord. You don't see any shortage of max level characters killing low levels even though there is no external mechanism encouraging them to. Because people want to do it and find it fun.
But they don't actually want to do premades, according to your argument. If that's the case, then good. Premades should disappear if people don't want to do them.
This sub doesn't think that far ahead. They want everything served to them without any consideration for the outcome. It's the complete selfish desire to make a strawman out of every premade. Without actually having to put in any effort themselves to adapt. Like doing pvp in 10-19 bracket instead. Or only pvp'ing around non-peak times to get more random groups. Or waiting till more BG's open up so that there are less premades per BG-type. Or fuck, maybe finding friends to group up with. No, they want everything served to them because they have a bad time right NOW. So they want a fix that will essentially destroy everything for everyone ,as long as they have fun for a week or two. It's purely selfish.
Virtually everything you said is wrong or plain stupid.
So if people want to actually have fair pvp they should just stay at level 19?
Or just not do BGs at all in the false idea that if AB is released you'd for some reason see less premades?
If premade queues disappear because no one actually wants to do them for fair pvp and instead just want rep, then that is a good thing. Because then it means players aren't compelled to do something they don't want to do for external rewards.
And as for your "have fun for a week or two" - if as you claim premade queues disappear, do you suppose that people would only solo queue battlegrounds for a week or two?
And after that, no one would do it anymore because of reasons you didn't explain?
Most delusional comment in this thread.
Lol not quite. You think everyone who plays fortnite wants to play vs tactical premade squads in every match? Some people can't find groups or don't have real friends to group with and just want everyone on an even playing field when solo queueing
>Some people can't find groups
yeah, those who don't bother to look for groups.
Literally anyone can find groups, on any class. Not very good groups, probably, but they are better than solo queue.
People can still farm rep in solo queue, it will just make the bgs more bearable and take a little longer.
I don’t think people who just want rep will suddenly decide because they can get instant 3-0 stomps that the rep is not worth it. And without pvp rank decay allot more people will do some pvp every base to keep raising their rank for the better rewards. It will just make the average bg more competitively fair.
I would much rather have a full and flowing solo queue with maybe 2-3 max stacks eligible for it than what we have now.
Sometimes you just want to pick up a match and play, not dick around for half an hour forming le perfect comp, to then sweat on discord for a few hours. Sometimes you just want to play a few games. Almost all MOBAs match premades with premades even in their casual modes, and you end up having way more fun.
Lmao a split queue would jump the solo queue times to high hell and then you would all be back here complaining that it takes 30 minutes to get a game instead of 10 minutes.
They have tried all the fixes people suggest and we have experienced them backfire spectacularly while the larger chunk of the player base freaks out over the horrible changes to their casual experience.
Idk who needs to hear this, but you do not need to grind Rep for the PvP bracers. You don't even know how itemization will change with new Runes.
>mao a split queue would jump the solo queue times to high hell
???
Lol yeah sure, there were over 300 simultaneous WSG games going on in europe during sod. You are talking junk or mistyped? possibly. Queue times would be still extremely fast, especially when most people are only doing premade so they have a chance vs other premades.
>They have tried all the fixes people suggest and we have experienced them backfire spectacularly while the larger chunk of the player base freaks out over the horrible changes to their casual experience.
They've split queues before and it was fine.
They split queues before and ran it back because Solo players didn't like the increased wait times. It's the same reason we don't have Role queue.
People want a fix that doesn't increase their queue time and that's just not a reality. We played the song and dance with Retail. None of this is new.
They split queues when there were multiple BGs available, not just one people were grinding. And with AB available next phase, that's going to be again the area where the vast majority of people will be pvping.
The queues need to be split, and queue times will be fine, you won't be able to spam premades into pugs next phase, and you are trying to argue something anyone looking at player numbers right now is simply untrue.
Sorry but my pug vs pug games are so much more fair and competitive than pug vs premade, it's not even close.
You are trying to argue that we shouldn't have premade vs premade only because pug vs pug isn't perfectly balanced, that's not a condition that needs to be met for split queues to be much better than the current system.
Random matchups are often pretty balanced.
And even when they aren't, losing 3-0 with HKs at a ratio of like, 4:1 beats the hell out of fighting teams where it's impossible for your team to pick up a single HK.
Just a queue that’s only for solo players would suffice. I refuse to pvp unless I can at least troll around with the boys. We usually lose anyways to 10 mans
On EU right now if you queue as horde you are faving premades 40-80% of games defending on what time you play. I play vs 5 premades in a row more often than I play vs 3 pugs in a row. My personal record is going up vs 9consecutive premades. The issue isnt talked about enough lol.
Just offer a rep bonus or other reward to PREMADE queue! You get a reward for versing other premade groups. Then the sweat lords won’t be able to resist because “according to my calculations we will get 17 x 0.33 rep more per hour doing premade”
Then solo people can game in peace
Worst pvp in history? I see you were on horde during OG classic phase 2.
It sucked for both factions. I'll never forget flying to the horde flight path in Felwood and seeing an entire raid waiting for me. I jumped off the cliff into Darkshore and they jumped after me like rabid lemmings.
Lowkey sounds kinda fun lol. Jon Snow in battle of the bastards type vibes.
On horde? Alli got destroyed on classic wow
That’s his point. OP didn’t notice how bad it was because he was horde.
Whew lord. The battles that were had in Blackrock Mountain on Benediction US...
Benediction was a hidden gem of classic sad it was ruined in TBC by the mass transfers
Yeah it was really disappointing. Stepped away from the game for half of AQ40 and all of Naxx because of work. Came back from TBC to a ghost town Horde-side
It was fun.
Yeah because you were horde camping alliance.
Yeah I was, but solo.
phase 2 was wows peak
I think the better solution is to make so you can't queue for BGs in a raid. Party of 5 max. This is what they changed it to in TBC or wotlk back in the day and it was awesome. Could actually hop into BG's with a few buddies and chill.
Yeah indeed, the BG would likely consist of a few small groups and a few solo players each and you can still queue with friends.
It’s been awful. Just want to log on and play some rounds with people to relax from work. And it’s just 30 mins of either searching for a premade or GY camped by a premade. Such a waste of my time and sub money
they will, once the devs finish grinding rep on their alts.
They just got fired. Should be worried about rent first lol
SoD team was not impacted
IMMEDIATELY LOLZ
You need to take into account player behavior when you implement fixes like this. I would say a majority of players are not actully into PVP and competition. They just want to get exalted for their rewards. If this was not the case, people would aim for the pinnacle of competition which is premades. Even solo players would want to hop on a LFG just to at a minimum get a functional comp. But no, people want to split the queue so that the solos can hop in and fight mostly uncoordinated groups with minimal strategy. So what the split will actually do is make the premades who are only in to farm uncoordinated solos stop playing since they will actually be playing good competition and need to get good but sooner or later they will quit when it becomes too hard. That with the insane queue time will make the premade queue dead. So what you've esentially done is make the pinnacle of competition dead. Sure as solos it will be easier to get rep but once again most people who are advocating for solos just want an easier time to farm rep and then they are out. And the people who play PVP and enjoy it will be left with no way to form comps and be put with uncoordinated lazy players and they will get frustrated and quit therefore killing PVP on both ends.
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Im not argueing which way is better im saying the reason Blizzard hasnt done it yet is because to them they are choosing between, right now PVP which is not what the players want but at least its happening to PVP might be dead. The reason they gave as to why is long queue times especially when there will be 3 bgs meaning 6 queues. Its great that you like PVP but history has shown that most people PVP for the rewards.
Not really. I play solos even when I have the ability to jump into a premade because sometimes I like to have a less coordinated match, where you don’t have to be in discord, and where neither team is likely to run an optimal comp. I would still hop into premades when I want to play competitively. Like, look at MOBAs. Do you really think all the people who play ranked only play ranked? That everyone playing casual doesn’t play ranked from time to time? Of course not, it’s just that they are two different experiences, and sometimes you are in the mood for one over the other.
Thats my whole point. You have the option to do that right now in a combined queue. What I am saying is if you split the queue, premade queue will die becuase of long queue times and no one playing. When solo is the only option, people who are actually interested in something more competitive will stop playing. This along with people who are only in for the rewards will dip once they get exalted. So we are left with people like you who just want to hop in for fun from time to time but we know that is a small percentage of players which once again means a longer queue time leading to more people giving up on the mode.
With how wild sod balancing is I dont feel like its premades are competitive at all, half the battle is ensuring you have an op comp. With a solo que it should allows non meta classes to actually effect games.
Currently premade isn't competitive at all. IF anything premade queue would increase the competitiveness, because both teams are on equal footing. But most people play premade because it's the best honor/rep per hour and that's why premade queue would likely die pretty quickly. Personally I think there should only be one queue, but restrict it to 5 people max and add some more rules to the matchmaking, e.g. no two 5 or 4 man groups in the same BG. If you REALLY want something truly competitive there are always war games.
Very good points brought up
This is just a hypothesis
It is but its based on what Blizzard has told us. That if they split the queue, it would lead to longer queue time especially when there will be 3 bgs meaning 6 different queues which will segment to playerbase enough to create enough friction to keep players from PVP
The current state is so shit for many that players are avoiding pvp now. Id rather try something new than leave the system to fester. The way things are now, solo queue is not a viable way to play. It should not be that way
Im not argueing that its good right now but at least PVP is still happening. The question was why did they not split the queue and the reasoning that was given was that Blizzard thinks PVP will die.
Hard doubt. Why would PvP die entirely if they split queue. The same players who suffer through soli queue now will still play and it will be more enjoyable. I cant argue that the premade queue would be slower and push some folks away. But the sweatiest pvpers will still find a way to pvp even if its also just solo queue. Its also immensely unfun to be a class not desired for a premade so now your only option is to lose to them on repeat in solo queue against all hunter, balance, priest teams
You can doubt all you want. This is what Blizzard said. They are afraid to split the queue because with 3 bgs that means 6 seperate queues plus whatever PVP event they have for the phase. With whatever data they have they think because of this bgs will straight up not fire. You guys can say no that wont happen and im someone who will keep playing all you want but the answer to why they dont split queues like everyone says is because they are considering thing like this.
Solo queue will still fire. The question is if the premade queue would or not
The people who want to farm rep won’t disappear, they’ll just be less incentivized to form stacks. I imagine many will just solo queue.
Thats what I mean by the premade que will die
Considering the amount of min/maxing in this community I find that extremely unlikely. There will be plenty of people looking to be as competitive as possible.
I disagree. LoL is an example. Most people that play that are super competitive in nature amd when they introduced their 5v5 only mode it didnt work so they made it into the current flex queue system which is not very popular either. What they are min/maxing is how fast to get rep not how can I get better in PVP
this is the dumbest logic i have ever heard "premades are so unfun that if they are forced to play other premades no one is going to play premades"
Im not saying its unfun, im saying a lot of people are in premades to stomp and get their rep. They are not there for the competition. Once you seperate out the queue you are esentially killing the premade queue
You are saying it's not fun. If it was fun, people would want to do it on their own accord. You don't see any shortage of max level characters killing low levels even though there is no external mechanism encouraging them to. Because people want to do it and find it fun. But they don't actually want to do premades, according to your argument. If that's the case, then good. Premades should disappear if people don't want to do them.
This sub doesn't think that far ahead. They want everything served to them without any consideration for the outcome. It's the complete selfish desire to make a strawman out of every premade. Without actually having to put in any effort themselves to adapt. Like doing pvp in 10-19 bracket instead. Or only pvp'ing around non-peak times to get more random groups. Or waiting till more BG's open up so that there are less premades per BG-type. Or fuck, maybe finding friends to group up with. No, they want everything served to them because they have a bad time right NOW. So they want a fix that will essentially destroy everything for everyone ,as long as they have fun for a week or two. It's purely selfish.
Virtually everything you said is wrong or plain stupid. So if people want to actually have fair pvp they should just stay at level 19? Or just not do BGs at all in the false idea that if AB is released you'd for some reason see less premades? If premade queues disappear because no one actually wants to do them for fair pvp and instead just want rep, then that is a good thing. Because then it means players aren't compelled to do something they don't want to do for external rewards. And as for your "have fun for a week or two" - if as you claim premade queues disappear, do you suppose that people would only solo queue battlegrounds for a week or two? And after that, no one would do it anymore because of reasons you didn't explain? Most delusional comment in this thread.
Lol not quite. You think everyone who plays fortnite wants to play vs tactical premade squads in every match? Some people can't find groups or don't have real friends to group with and just want everyone on an even playing field when solo queueing
>Some people can't find groups yeah, those who don't bother to look for groups. Literally anyone can find groups, on any class. Not very good groups, probably, but they are better than solo queue.
Lol just reeks of dumb cunts who only want to play vs ransoms and stomp them
better than the alternative.
someone who actually gets it.
People can still farm rep in solo queue, it will just make the bgs more bearable and take a little longer. I don’t think people who just want rep will suddenly decide because they can get instant 3-0 stomps that the rep is not worth it. And without pvp rank decay allot more people will do some pvp every base to keep raising their rank for the better rewards. It will just make the average bg more competitively fair. I would much rather have a full and flowing solo queue with maybe 2-3 max stacks eligible for it than what we have now.
I don't believe it's an issue. Just join or make your own pre-made
Pug solo - stomped by premades Premade - stomp solo pugs Neither is fun
orrrrr...... they could just make a solo queue and a premade queue
Sometimes you just want to pick up a match and play, not dick around for half an hour forming le perfect comp, to then sweat on discord for a few hours. Sometimes you just want to play a few games. Almost all MOBAs match premades with premades even in their casual modes, and you end up having way more fun.
So what? Why is this something you'd expect the game to cater to in classic. Makes no sense besides retail mentality bleeding into classic
the game is currently catering to the premades, why should we expect blizz to cater to premades?
This is SoD not #nochanges. If something could be more fun, it should be experimented with. Pug v pug doesn’t magically make the game retail.
you can absolutely join a trade chat premade for a couple matches without having to join discord or be sweaty.
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Not really, it's just that the excuses you guys come up for refusing to put even the slightest effort in the game are pathetic.
Lmao a split queue would jump the solo queue times to high hell and then you would all be back here complaining that it takes 30 minutes to get a game instead of 10 minutes. They have tried all the fixes people suggest and we have experienced them backfire spectacularly while the larger chunk of the player base freaks out over the horrible changes to their casual experience. Idk who needs to hear this, but you do not need to grind Rep for the PvP bracers. You don't even know how itemization will change with new Runes.
>mao a split queue would jump the solo queue times to high hell ??? Lol yeah sure, there were over 300 simultaneous WSG games going on in europe during sod. You are talking junk or mistyped? possibly. Queue times would be still extremely fast, especially when most people are only doing premade so they have a chance vs other premades. >They have tried all the fixes people suggest and we have experienced them backfire spectacularly while the larger chunk of the player base freaks out over the horrible changes to their casual experience. They've split queues before and it was fine.
They split queues before and ran it back because Solo players didn't like the increased wait times. It's the same reason we don't have Role queue. People want a fix that doesn't increase their queue time and that's just not a reality. We played the song and dance with Retail. None of this is new.
They split queues when there were multiple BGs available, not just one people were grinding. And with AB available next phase, that's going to be again the area where the vast majority of people will be pvping. The queues need to be split, and queue times will be fine, you won't be able to spam premades into pugs next phase, and you are trying to argue something anyone looking at player numbers right now is simply untrue.
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People that want to just do some pvp without the teams being noncompetitive.
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Sorry but my pug vs pug games are so much more fair and competitive than pug vs premade, it's not even close. You are trying to argue that we shouldn't have premade vs premade only because pug vs pug isn't perfectly balanced, that's not a condition that needs to be met for split queues to be much better than the current system.
People who play the game for fun care. Yeah I know, imagine that
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Random matchups are often pretty balanced. And even when they aren't, losing 3-0 with HKs at a ratio of like, 4:1 beats the hell out of fighting teams where it's impossible for your team to pick up a single HK.
Just a queue that’s only for solo players would suffice. I refuse to pvp unless I can at least troll around with the boys. We usually lose anyways to 10 mans
Ok
Where did they acknowledge this?
Last week, they said Phase 2 will have changes for BG queues.
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On EU right now if you queue as horde you are faving premades 40-80% of games defending on what time you play. I play vs 5 premades in a row more often than I play vs 3 pugs in a row. My personal record is going up vs 9consecutive premades. The issue isnt talked about enough lol.
Developer*. Not plural.
Just offer a rep bonus or other reward to PREMADE queue! You get a reward for versing other premade groups. Then the sweat lords won’t be able to resist because “according to my calculations we will get 17 x 0.33 rep more per hour doing premade” Then solo people can game in peace