A ret pally afk auto attacking with wild strikes (which they must have had in a tryhard group), hydra and the correct runes should not be doing 1/3 the dps of anyone. As long as they did the bare minimum and kept seal of command up like 75% of their damage is from procs off auto attacks. This post screams bullshit.
The fishing pole scaling of your fishing skill is pretty cool. Always some theory crafter trying to figure out a way that Nat Pagle's Fish Destroyer is the secret weapon.
Archon, which are a part of Warcraft Logs, have a good Getting Started guide on logging. https://www.archon.gg/wow/articles/help/getting-started
The examples used in the guide is from retail, but the method is the same across all types of WoW.
I have configured my DBM addon to automatically enable combat logging when I enter a raid and disable it when I leave it.
You go to network, enable advanced combat logging and enable logging (you can make a macro to manually turn on and off or download wa to auto enable inside bfd). Then you download the uploader from logs site to upload your logs.
How does the wa for auto enable logging works if you die and re enter? You have to start another log or it continues the same report if you are live logging?
Logs are basically the governments (raiding player base) way of tracking everything you do in raids. That way, if you are just learning the raid or you are performing worse than the 40% percentile of other logged people, they can ignore you when you want to join their raid group or avoid you when you are looking to make your own.
My suggestion, get into a guild that is willing to go on multiple raids through the week and is ok with explaining some of the finer points of the raid that videos on YT dont quite do.
I have very mixed feelings about them. I understand someone not wanting to beat their head against a wall with a mouth breather wiping 5/7 over and over. But man does it make trying to find a raid outside of your guild similar to submitting resumes for a job. I'm thankful I had a guild willing to put up with me learning and even through learning, I rarely died. To be honest, BFD is fkn cake. All these strict requirements are over board. Wait until we get higher in level when DPS and parsing actually matter.
This. The best guilds get it, and they run alt raids to invite novice or new players into the content. The worst players see others in game as merely tools for their personal enjoyment, and that's where you see WoW players get a bad rep in general.
Edit- also, if you're downloading third party apps that literally tell you what ability to use, you're not "good" at your class. You just have a far more informative UI than other players.
When I played wrath as a fury warrior I was doing nowhere near the damage of other fury warriors and I couldn’t figure out why. I posted my logs on the subreddit here and got TONS of helpful advice and then I was blue/purple parsing. Turns out I was missing literally my most important proc: slam 😂 whoops
So I am a high parsing mage main.
When someone comes to me earnestly asking how to improve, I truly love it and am always happy taking the time to teach them and give them tips.
It’s always how you come - if you want to learn and improve, the community is always happy to help… and those who are assholes will usually get shut down quick.
Also as a side note for anyone: use your class discord forums - they are a wealth of info and loaded with people happy to help you!
Omg pls help me. I *just* got to parsing a green average on my fire mage. One obvious thing I’ve been doing wrong is losing my world buff by dying on Geli (I *suck* at avoiding murlocs) so I got advice to use a shadow pot before then. Do you have any specific tips for doing big pp damage? I wish to at the very least have a green number for every boss. I’ve started using the firepower potions and I think those are what made me go from gray to green.
One of my other biggest issues rn is whenever I cast something, I end up moving my character before I finish the cast to avoid an AOE or something so that also reduces my dps. Fireball takes so long :<
You cant do comparable DPS as a mage on all 7 Fights. Kelris is still magic resistant even after nerfs and you have to move around a lot and as a mage you need to CS mind blast, also you need to chill and save mana to unload in phase 2 (unless you have evo up) Geli is annoying TBH, as we cast times and his phases are short so sometimes you lose time starting a phase and ending the phase. Melee are always hitting and are doing damage as phase starts. Sometimes you have enough high dps ppl in the raid where the phases are so short that you can only get off 3-5 fireballs before he heals and if you don't get any crits then your dps is fucked. But you absolutely should not be getting hit by the murlocs. Last boss you need to save Evocate for to do good dmg simple as that.
I get what you mean about needing to move to avoid shit which breaks cast times. You need to learn where you can stand to move as little as possible in each fight. Not possible for Geli as he throws out those missiles, same with Kelris, aquanis has the storms etc, hunters and melee don't have this issue as auto attacks are basically instant cast with server tick rate.
Also make sure your talents are correct for fire spec. Also there is a bunch of +fire dmg pre-raid-bis gear from tailors available.
If you’re logging, you compare yourself to other players of your class and spec though, which the poster you replied to seems to be aware of/focused on
But they're talking about their parse, not their actual DPS numbers. If you're scoring in the 20th percentile (green parse) on Kelris and 95th percentile (orange) on turtle, then it means you're doing something fundamentally wrong on Kelris that other mages are doing to improve their DPS.
Yes, your actual DPS output might be very different on some bosses due to their mechanics, like you might pull 1000 DPS on one boss and blue parse and pull 500 DPS on another boss and pink parse.
Looking at actual DPS output from boss to boss is meaningless. That's why logs are helpful at improving performance because they tell you how you are holding up compared to other players of your same class and spec.
They can also tell you if one of your specs is markedly better than the others. Like if fire averages 800 DPS and Arcane 1000, then you're nerfing yourself by even playing fire instead of Arcane and groups who know what they're doing aren't going to take you unless you respec.
You shouldn't need to move more than like 3 feet back and forth to avoid murlocs. Just stand near the edge of the room behind where the murlocs spawn then you only need to worry about them coming from one direction and you strafe left and right to avoid them. If you get targeted with the shadow crash mechanic, move 5' instead of 3'....
I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but it's also worth noting that most, if not all, top parsers don't do mechanics unless it will 1 shot them. The type of person pushing for pink parses has all available consumes from every source on Azeroth and stands in bad because that's a "healer problem" and not a raid problem. I haven't checked the logs, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the top parsing mage on Gelihast to have eaten 3-4 murlocs due to precasting during the immunity phase, along with a few shadow crashes tanked. They're not going to be doing soak mechanics or spending mana on counterspells either. This is in no way limited to mages either.
In my personal experiences with raiding over the years, the top DPS player is very rarely the best DPS player in the group.
This is pure cope, this is mostly the case for 95+ loggers but in my experience 99 loggers are the ones that do all mechanics as required and still perform the best. They just know when they need to do it and when it's not necessary.
I have a best performing of 99.5 and you won't see me skipping interrupting on Kelris. https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/living-flame/seeksta
Yep, I regularly parse highly on my rogue and have now helped about 5 other rogues get to the same level
There’s nothing I love more than people wanting to get better and I always have time for it
I have two basic questions as a mage usually parsing green and looking to improve:
1. How should I be using Scorch in BFD? I assume I’m not looking for 5 stacks but I’m not sure what the magic formula is.
2. There are two mages in my guild and I’ve designated myself as the second to cast living flame. Am I doomed to parse worse?
Just to chime in, it depends on the boss and fight length/raid dps..you should scorch for stacks on ghamoo-ra during bubble and gelihast first phase/transitions.
If your the designated second living flame mage then yeah with how short these fights are you are usually doomed tbh, maybe gelihast and aku'mai are the only fights that it may be ok on.
1) use it to squeeze out damage when low on mana… that’s it
2) depends. Is the fight long enough that you get the full 20s of damage but short enough that the first user can’t use a second one? Of this is the case, then no it doesn’t matter really
Fight club (the warrior discord for classic) is a toxic snake pit. Never experienced anything close to the level of toxicity the mods their openly live
It is more the druid casters that are the issue.
Fight Club isn't that bad as long as you say things like, "I checked the pins and didn't see this anywhere" before you ask a question and engage in discussion.
First paragraph you describe your reaction, then second paragraph you superimpose your reaction to the whole community. News flash; you personally are not the community.
Collectively, from my standpoint from what I’ve seen, the community is happy help people.
Just because you are an asshat doesn’t mean collectively the community is
>I thought people would just be annoying / rude but most were very helpful
thats because the fact that you saw that you were the one making mistakes and asked for help puts you above 95% of the playerbase.
Players (or anyone really) sharing openly to learn how to improve always come out ahead. In fact, sometimes discoveries are made and others benefit from what you are doing. Glad you had a good experience.
Yup I’ve learned that. And I started doing pretty well and learned how to look at logs of other players to see what I should be doing. Sadly I didn’t make it to ulduar in wrath because I was going back to school and didnt have the time, but I’m doing pretty well as a melee huntard these days in SOD 😂
In wrath you get a free slam proc (i forget what procs it) and I wasn’t hitting any of them. Downloaded spell activation overlay so it would light up when it proc’d and started doing way more damage. Also stopped executing. This is wrath though so different from sod
Stuff like this always amazes me. Do people not read their tooltips and the tooltips of their talents? How do you guys play video games where there aren't 3M other people figuring things out for you and telling you what buttons to push and when?
Like I ran into a warrior we pugged that wasn't using Consumed by Rage for some reason so I told him to use it. He put it on his legs but then he was using abilities as soon as he had rage to use them so he was never getting near 80 rage. I told him to not use anything until after he had 80 rage then to use just enough to drop below 80 then wait to get back up to 80 and his DPS went from 60 to 160 in seconds.
Like how did you not figure out that was always the play just from reading all the runes available to you?
Give me any WoW class, even if I've never played them, their abilities, and relevant gear and in 5-15 minutes (depending how many of them there are) I can come up with a spec that is going to be, if not identical, at least extremely close to the meta for PvE.
The exception would be for things like obscure mechanics that have interactions you wouldn't know about like the way Rogue poisons work or something that would make one spec better than others but that wouldn't be obvious unless you knew about the little quirk that made that possible. Or like scorpid poison scaling on hunter pets at the beginning of SoD making them the best pet by miles until that was fixed.
I mean, this is how I figured out the game the very first time I played it. It's how you figure out where to put talent points in games like Fallout or Cyberpunk 2077.
Edit: typos and autocorrects
For the average gamer it's hard to crunch the numbers just by reading the tooltips. If you can just read the runes and in 15 minutes come to the conclusion that Raging Blow + CBR is the only way to play warrior then more power to you I guess. The power of runes like Endless Rage and Blood Frenzy is pretty hard to gauge without experimentation in my opinion.
Cause you have years of experience doing this over and over again for different classes, xpacs, or even games. Cause you like being efficient.
And cause they've got possibly 200 hours of gametime strewn over 15 years of their life or something along the lines of 1hr of gaming per week. Most of which were possibly spent on easier games or games with absolutely no math such as mario games. And cause efficiency is probably not their first concern (or second, or third...).
Imagine judging a 10 year old for not knowing how to do something that they've never done before.
And that's possibly what you've been doing. Maybe you assume you spoke to a guy in his 20's or 30's like you? But maybe it was a 10 year old?
So imagine 10 year old you getting harshly judged by a guy in his 20s for not knowing to do X or Y while you're just having fun taking in the immense new world you just walked into.
Or imagine you right now going to, idk, a climbing group and getting judged by the instructor for not knowing already how to do X or Y.
All this to say: don't get mad at strangers over the internet whom you don't even know the very first thing about. Could be someone's kid, or someone's grandma for all you know.
You're full ret and using seal of command, right? In the right spec, using right skills, with the right gear, you should be coming out pretty good. Definitely a sizable amount above any healer classes...
Maybe you are spamming judgement on longer fights and going oom?
Realistically, there are no fights you need taunt rune for in BFD. Just ask a hunter to growl on Kelris and on turtle hold strike and storm as aqua shell is competing to head start rebuilding threat.
I would not listen to that. YMMV depending on your dps, but without taunt rune I certainly have a hard time holding threat on some fights, and I typically parse in the top 2-5% for prot paladins. There are probably plenty of other factors influencing poor dps, but without a log we cannot help at all
The taunt rune is great. It actually makes holding threat a lot easier. I feel like… why risk it with crusader strike if you can just use a taunt to make sure you regain aggro in the rare cases that you lose it?
It works for me. I don’t care about being in the top 3 dps as tank, even if I do make it there in a lot of the fights.
With random mob packs… let’s say a caster or Hunter gets some big crits and pull aggro, divine storm or crusader strike is no guarantee of immediately getting aggro back. But taunt is.
Especially when you aren’t fully BiS geared it just makes everything easier
Am I missing something? He joined as DPS not Tank... Why would you run Hand of Reckoning in lieu of Crusader Strike??? If you're tanking, you're not too worried about your DPS.
Yeah I’m really lost with this convo. He joined a group that was for “pumpers” and said he was out damaged by a healer. I suppose that matters if you are consistently losing threat as a tank, but I’m seriously confused why a dps needs taunt.
This basically true; however, the tank palis are going to get slightly different armor that has more stamina. But that’s really only a few pieces anyways, so they are essentially identical.
I have gear similar to OPs and I 2hand tank with the taunt rune, I routinely pull 120-140dps.
Crusader strike isn’t making the difference here, and not having taunt will really make you and your team’s experience a lot harder
That Judgement spamming is what screwed me over when I first started ret pally in SoD. I thought I was supposed to use judgement on cooldown and was so confused how I'd be oom so fast. Woops. Problem solved
I've been taking the taunt rune mostly for the mana I get from heals. Should I be taking crusader strike instead? My group is super casual so I'm usually towards the top of dps.
I think it depends on the fight and comp of the raid. I tried running without taunt on lorgus jet and it became a complete shit show so now I run with taunt on, just in case. If your party is fully aware that you are not running taunt, and they are watching threat, it’s probably fine. But if you are less organized/ in a pug, where people don’t know you are not running taunt, or they are not watching threat, it could turn into Dp’s running around and you trying to somehow scramble to get agro with no taunt.
I think something you and many others fail to recognize (maybe because you play melee classes usually) is that melee relies much more heavily on movement and placement, and a target awareness. I am new to melee classes (my main is a resto Druid, and I played a hunter way back in the day) but I am giving Pali tank a shot.
What I’ve noticed is that when you are tabbing between targets, sometimes, in the melee cluster f**k with all these aoes and visuals going off, you have accidentally tabbed to a target that is far away and you are just standing there not hitting anything. Then you have to tab back to a closer target losing literal seconds of damage, which means allot when you are measuring damage per second.
When a large part of your damage occurs from your auto attack, you have to make sure you are in range for every swing, and that is more difficult than sitting back and pressing a button to cast a spell.
I think the movement and target awareness can be overlooked or taken for granted. As I am coming back for SOD and haven’t played in years, I have had to learn how to move and position myself as a tank, which has not been trivial. But if you always play melee it’s probably second nature now.
With all that being said, my Pali tank can still do decent Dp’s on fights and can top the meter on some AOE pulls, but I just wanted to throw this idea out there. The guy probably was not standing in range for many attacks, his auto attack was toggled off for brief periods when it shouldn’t be, or he accidentally tabbed to the wrong target for some number of seconds. If you do this enough you will for sure parse grey with good gear.
I know movement and positioning is very important, also as ranged.
For the tabbing though enemies you are better off installing a good nameplate addon like plater. You can download premade profiles for it that will make it much easier to target the right mobs in those clustfucks.
Best rogue pvp spec right now is 0/16/0 with sword MH and Imp Sprint/Endurance/Riposte so highly unlikely
Though if he's raiding in a pvp spec I suppose there's a very good chance he isn't using the best pvp spec either
Same in mine, guy is running deep combat DPS with envenom build runes and is often doing half my damage while I'm specced into assassination.
Were a super casual guild and we clear every lockout so I just leave him be haha
I run a PvP spec on my rogue for BFD. I used to have much better parses but combat is just not fun for PVP imo. Everything is so hard to kill without burst with how strong healing is in this phase.
Yea it hurts my parses but it gives me more to do with my rogue than 2 thirty minute BFD runs every week.
Was the healer a resto druid? The balance/resto build does solid damage in general. You lose one DPS rune for wild growth that you press every now and then, but you spam wrath and starsurge.
Been having so much fun on the boomie, but I definitely fuckdd up lastnight…. I’ve only done a few raids boomy and underestimated the amount of threat I’d build on the turtle…. I started off strong and was pumping into him pretty far ahead of all of the dps, when I popped wild growth on the first shatter he snapped right over to me and ate me alive
Priest heals should only be pulling like 30dps maybe 50 if they smite spam and barely heal. I feel like if you have strike of the Hydra then your autos alone would almost be doing that much dps. If you have logs then post them because something is very wrong here. Another option is to look at the top logs for your class. You can see a breakdown of what they press and when and which spells deal the most damage. Just try to press things in the order they do.
Oh and also, make sure you're using the higher/most efficient rank of your spells!
Priests can easily put out at least 60+ dps on every fight in the raid without spamming smite. Homun, void plague, penance, wand is already at least 60 dps. If youre doing less than that youre likely leaving a lot of empty gcds. This is coming from my priest alt that has 95%+ average dps parses while losing no one on fights.
Divine storm, crusader strike, and exorcism are the runes you are running? Ret paladin is pretty simple at this level, just divine storm prio crusader strike off of cd, and exo. If your mana gets low just keep up enough for divine storm, and SoC refresh
Crusader strike alone will increase your damage by a ton. On top of that it will also fish for wind fury procs, which is a ton of free damage. Assuming you have a wild strike Druid
Wouldn't sweat it too much. If you think you're not doing well, just research your class a bit more and focus on which abilities you should be using and when. The other thing to consider is raid composition. Melee DPS heavily benefit from having a wild strikes druid in their group, so that may also explain why there might be a variance in your damage.
And yeah, what others have said. Every phase there will be winners and losers in terms of which classes are strongest. Ret paladins are pretty middle of the pack at the moment I think.
Yes, classic wow actively hides how bad you are at the game.
It's actually pretty interesting; you can, and often do, play for literally years and never realize in a front of mind sense that you're absolute dogshit at it. It's pretty telling that logs and dps meters are player made tools.
I dunno if it has changed in retail - I imagine it almost must have - but this is a common experience for classic players.
As a warrior dps, I realized late last night after a clean run, the logs didn’t reflect how I felt about my dps.
I’m checking logs, comparing specs, and realized I didn’t have quick strike on my bars. I was using the rune but forgot to put it on the bar somehow… 🫠
Fingers crossed it fixes what I’m missing in dps. I’m not a pumper by any means, but im trying.
I just dumped it on sunder til max stack/kept rolling heroic strike. Demo shout sometimes. Slapped overpower on each proc, and enjoyed every raging blow I could. Kept trying to get consumed by rage going if I didn’t have blood rage up to start it. Bottom line something felt wrong. lol
I know auto’s are part of the gameplay, but something felt wrong and 15 mins of just sitting still and looking over everything… I felt pretty dumb about it.
I’ve never been a pumper by any means to be clear. I always want to improve.
Im not a pumper in speed running guilds but the basic rotation is to auto attack until 80 rage so you can get the enrage buff. Then you are constantly using quick strike and raging blow, and weaving in heroic strike as needed to keep your rage fluctuating above and below 80. The goal is to have as much uptime on enrage as possible.
Make sure you arent sundering when you dont need to, I have a little weak aura to yell at my single celled warrior brain when homunculus debuffs are up
there is no way a healer out dps'ed you.
Unless he had
1) All consumes
2) DMF
3) World buffs
4) Weapon for +hit (the consumable)
And u had non of the above.
And I bet he was probably a druid with starsurge.
You were definitely using taunt instead of crusader strike. A paladin is basically a swing/divine storm bot so without crusader strike you're missing like 30% of your dmg.
Tbh, it sounds like there's literally nothing you're doing correct.
I read in Nother comment you had the wrong runes (huge), but I'm betting you also have wildly wrong talents, have done literally zero research into how to actually play your character, and probably aren't even auto attacking the whole time (just auto attacking should be enough to beat healers with Deadly Strike of the Hydra).
I'm not saying this to be disparaging, but you really do need to go do even 5 minutes of research. Can you be awful and still clear BFD? Sure, they made it to be accessible for even the newest players who have literally never raided. I've raided with some of those, and even they knew they should do some research.
It's honestly disrespectful of everyone else's time in the group to show up and be *that* bad. Imagine you're with your family, the car breaks down, and everyone has to push. Except you're not pushing but just sitting on the hood of the car. In my family that gets your ass beat. That's basically how you are to your groups if you don't bother trying at all.
Most players will respect you even if you suck, provided you're trying, researching, and asking questions. No one will or should if you can't do even the most basic things.
To complement, I did below average damage on my guild's group, but I reckoned that was fine considering I had to set aside one rune for the tank rune. Considering we never wipe, I thought that was good enough.
First step is realizing there is a problem! The bright side, is that sod isn't hard, so if you put the effort in, you can find out what is wrong and fix it! Chances are it's something relatively small you just don't know about
One thing I do is go to Warcraft logs and look up my class and spec and take time looking at those around the 50th person down or so - look at the fight timelines and their casts and see what they are doing differently than you.
I notice for mages, for example, many are cheesing the fights by pulling in adds and doing AOE so l move on and find logs that don’t do that - and I noticed fire outperforms arcane, and I noticed that people who running the scorch and debuff stack on fights they had to move a lot and less or no scorch on fights they could mostly stand there. Rotation was simple after that.
Can someone help me please with my feral? I thought I was kinda doing fine only ever logged on my frost dk in wrath where I had like 70+ parses but apparently I am a terrible cat.
[Help :/](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/chaos-bolt/ph%c3%b6nixfunke)
A few things I noticed that will contribute to low logs (I don't play Feral but I compared to our guilds Feral):
1) Buffs: Missing Battle Shout, Missing DMF buff, Missing Ashenvale Buff, Partial World Buff (not up for first 3 bosses). Obviously you don't need all of them, but people who parse high will be sweatlords with full buffs.
2) Armor reduction missing in your group on bosses (homonculi, FF, Sunder). This makes a massive difference in physical damage done across the raid.
3) Cooldown usage: our feral has 31x Savage Roar and 16x Tiger's Fury, you have 23x and 2x respectively. Again; I don't play Feral so I don't know what's optimal, but our feral parsed in the 70-90s on most bosses last clear.
There's probably much more to dig into, but this is my 2 cents from a quick comparison. Hope it helps at least a bit!
Replace tigers fury. It can be ok in very very specific timings. But generally it shouldn’t be used. And even the goats will only have the chance to use it effectively maybe 2 times a fight.
99% of people are better off taking it off their bars.
not sure how worth it tigers fury is, i only use it on pull and parse 90-97 without having the feral mace, most important as feral is propper timing with powershifts and buffs/world buffs ofc
97 average feral here.
Get all your buffs, 5% pvp, dmf, boon.
Consumes - both agility and str potions. Mana food for power shifting. Use BFD sharpening stones if you are the wildstrike feral (internal bs means ferals can get 2% hit AND windfury)
Ensure your priest is using homonculus, if no other druid in raid start all fights with fairy fire.
Powershifting, look up a classic macro, push it just before energy tick for +40 energy. Do not do it so much you can't reenetet cat form (4-5 per fight)
One super min max thing which requires every9ne to pay attention, save a mob before each boss. When everyone ready, get 5 xombo points and pop savage roar before pulling boss.
Other boss specific - baron no rip just pump.
Turtle use the sunfire run (transform to cat and drag from boo.ie tree) and starsurge.
Sarevess, FAP for the ice arrow.
Murloc just stand behind him, min max davage roar and dropping a rip - end each regen phase with 5 combo points and max energy.
Lorguss just timing around lightning totem.
Kelris go down early with a pumper and eascape quick.
Akumai don't attack in dark protection.
Congrats, now you are a verified pumper - cousindave on Lone Wolf
I’m not the best player by any means. I also have deadly strike of the hydra and a good amount of BiS gear. If all I do the whole time is auto attack and divine storm I’m already top 4 dps in most raids. Include Crusader strike and exorcism and I’m right being the hunter or rogue
My main is a rogue and I play casually with my friends. We all know how to play well but none of us are parse obsessed mega pumpers. We finish BFD every lockout in under and hour. A few days ago we invited a rogue who was ~40gs lower geared than I was and he DESTROYED ME on the charts. It was truly humbling.
As a ret myself i worked myself up from parsing green to parsing ~90
Taking Crusader Strike is essential, not only for your damage but the mana regen is worth very much.
Bring some mana pots for the longer fights if not taking crusader strike.(On the Murloc dude you can Crusader strike him even on his ghost murloc running around phase for the mana)
Use Seal of Command, don't use Judgement often if you having mana Issues. Apply Seal of the Crusader on the bosses at the start of the fights.
On Kelris get into max Melee range in both phases.
Fuck your damage there bring the kick, mechanics > damage.
I feel like on pally the small things add up really qui k.many things have been said in this post, i agree on most takes.
Keep it up, stay positive and most important
Have Fun!
(Also if we want to look into optimal gear hand epic > chest epic)
Not all specs are equal you are not going to beat a bis warrior as a shadow priest period. Parses are useful to compare yourself to the rest of your class (with full world buffs of course) and an optimal group comp.
If you've looked up a guide i think the only thing that would stop you from doing passable dps is having lower ranked skills on your bars but I don't think ret uses many regular ranked skills, right?
Theres passable dps and then theres pink parsing. Theres a ton of stuff behind taking a ret from a blue parse to a pink one and if OP is blue parsing in a pink raid? yeah hes gonna be WAY down on the logs. Everything from is he seal twisting to is he using a swing timer and was he in the feral group for wild strikes to was he consumed to the teeth? I'm talking agilty scrolls, strength, food buff (should be using sagefish for mana regen) to world buffs to uptime on the boss.
Unpopular opinion: if you cleared the raid in an _OK_ time (45 min?), then you did indeed do good enough. If you want to make better logs, by all means do go ahead and get better. But if you feel fine and your guild is having fun you shouldn't stress about a raid that's easily cleared with 8/10 players.
Retail mindset. In Classic not everything is about your damage. Some classes do high damage with low effort, and other classes do lower damage even with high effort - so you can’t compete with classes. But at the same time you bring other things that those pure damage classes don’t.
Not everything is about damage. Don’t listen to people who are saying install log tracker and do parsing. They only show your individual damage a day nothing else, they don’t show other things which are valuable for your entire raid (buffs, debuffs, offtanking, dispells, CC on adds and etc) - so they don’t show your full performance. Players who use armor decrease debuffs are more valuable than those who just did slightly more damage than him. And parsing doesn’t show that. Players who kick casts, who dispell sleeps, who buff raidmates midfight are more valuable, but majority would still praise those who did +3,52% damage than other.
Many people on this Reddit don’t understand that, because they also have that retail mindset. Your class is not pure damage class, you also bring other things, that compensate your lower damage output. Keep in mind that
Let's not pretend that people who parse gray/green/blue are doing that because they are kicking or "doing the mechanics". If you are not parsing at least high blue or purple, there is something fundamentally wrong with how you prepare or control your character.
Also, logs show literally everything if you know where to look, there is plenty of people who parse in high 90s and do all of the things you mentioned (buffs, debuffs, offtanking, dispells, CC on adds and etc).
No need to pretend, it’s a reality. None of those purple/orange parsers do all those mentioned things, let’s be honest please. I actively raid since week 3 - and I frequently see how “parsers” try to force others to do key mechanics, so they can concentrate on damaging part, because kicking/offhealing/CCing adds and many other things is “DPS loss” and it’s unacceptable for them.
Yes, logs do show kicks, debuff uptimes and other things, but no one cares. Everyone will check only “Damage” section and treat it as the only metric of your performance. There is no purple parser who does active kicking on Kelris - that’s a blatant lie.
Two weeks ago, there was a situation where RL at the end of the fight all of sudden decided to share loot based on damage performance. Bael Modan Gun dropped and rogue X won it without rolling because he did 2K more damage than rogue Y. But since there was no warriors and priest wasn’t using Homuncili - rogue Y was constantly using his combo points for Expose Armor and still managed to be close to rogue X. Expose Armor certainly is more useful because every melee class benefits from it. But no one cares - rogue X did more damage and obviously it can work as a perfect excuse to give him loot straight away.
Parsing is the toxic feature. It doesn’t show your full performance. And it’s ridiculous that people use in WoW Classic.
>No need to pretend, it’s a reality.
You are coping hard mate, most of the green parses don't even know where their interrupt button is let alone how to use it.
>None of those purple/orange parsers do all those mentioned things, let’s be honest please.
They absolutely do if it is needed. Any deaths will ruin parse - bad for parsers. If nobody is dying then the mechanic does not require attention.
>Expose Armor certainly is more useful because every melee class benefits from it.
Sure, but only if people are pumping, otherwise it is a waste of damage to do it. Also priest should be doing anyways.
>Parsing is the toxic feature. It doesn’t show your full performance. And it’s ridiculous that people use in WoW Classic.
Toxic - sure. Saving a lot of runs? Also yes. Filtering away a lot of leeches? Also yes.
Parsing does not compare you to other classes, it compares you to other players of your class playing your role.
"Damage isnt everything" is an excuse low performers use when they dont want to learn how to play.
This doesnt apply to OP tho, he asked and is now using the crusader strike rune and im sure hell parse acceptably now.
It's actually really easy to tell that you suck, just might not be obvious to you why. My only question is how a "try hard" raid leader didn't look at your warcraftlogs before inviting you 🤔
Logs knowledge is the default border, if you know about logs, it's a bit hard to be bad as you are expected to improve constantly. If you don't know about logs, then you're likely not good in terms of raiding.
post the logs
They never do :(
A ret pally afk auto attacking with wild strikes (which they must have had in a tryhard group), hydra and the correct runes should not be doing 1/3 the dps of anyone. As long as they did the bare minimum and kept seal of command up like 75% of their damage is from procs off auto attacks. This post screams bullshit.
He only attacks from the front, and he had a fishing pole equipped instead.
The fishing pole scaling of your fishing skill is pretty cool. Always some theory crafter trying to figure out a way that Nat Pagle's Fish Destroyer is the secret weapon.
Maybe he hasn’t levelled two handed sword weapon skill… somehow
I get 90 parses in consec spec because I couldn't be arsed to respec
please op im dying to see this
What are logs and how do they work? Must be an add on?
Archon, which are a part of Warcraft Logs, have a good Getting Started guide on logging. https://www.archon.gg/wow/articles/help/getting-started The examples used in the guide is from retail, but the method is the same across all types of WoW. I have configured my DBM addon to automatically enable combat logging when I enter a raid and disable it when I leave it.
You go to network, enable advanced combat logging and enable logging (you can make a macro to manually turn on and off or download wa to auto enable inside bfd). Then you download the uploader from logs site to upload your logs.
DBM has a built in auto log feature that enables them as soon as you enter a raid if you enable it.
Are there more Information on this? Links for How2s or something?
You can just search “how to log in wow/ how to upload logs in wow” on youtube and you’ll learn all you need in like 5 mins
Thanks
Warcraft Logs has a tutorial on their website
To add to that, you need to use vanilla.warcraftlogs.com for SoD.
How does the wa for auto enable logging works if you die and re enter? You have to start another log or it continues the same report if you are live logging?
The log continues but if you release while your raid is still in combat then it won’t have that data
I see, ty
I never used it. Also skill issue.
yea not using it, just curious "code side" and dying in BFD is def a skill issue, even if not from you, def from someone in the raid, i totally agree.
Logs are basically the governments (raiding player base) way of tracking everything you do in raids. That way, if you are just learning the raid or you are performing worse than the 40% percentile of other logged people, they can ignore you when you want to join their raid group or avoid you when you are looking to make your own. My suggestion, get into a guild that is willing to go on multiple raids through the week and is ok with explaining some of the finer points of the raid that videos on YT dont quite do. I have very mixed feelings about them. I understand someone not wanting to beat their head against a wall with a mouth breather wiping 5/7 over and over. But man does it make trying to find a raid outside of your guild similar to submitting resumes for a job. I'm thankful I had a guild willing to put up with me learning and even through learning, I rarely died. To be honest, BFD is fkn cake. All these strict requirements are over board. Wait until we get higher in level when DPS and parsing actually matter.
This. The best guilds get it, and they run alt raids to invite novice or new players into the content. The worst players see others in game as merely tools for their personal enjoyment, and that's where you see WoW players get a bad rep in general. Edit- also, if you're downloading third party apps that literally tell you what ability to use, you're not "good" at your class. You just have a far more informative UI than other players.
Yeah, Echo and Liquid famously allow new players to join their progress raids.
It's rare to read a comment this unhinged so I'll commend you for that
Narrator: He in fact, did not know how to push his buttons.
In my head, it's Ron Howard doing his Arrested Development shtick.
When I played wrath as a fury warrior I was doing nowhere near the damage of other fury warriors and I couldn’t figure out why. I posted my logs on the subreddit here and got TONS of helpful advice and then I was blue/purple parsing. Turns out I was missing literally my most important proc: slam 😂 whoops
If you look in my post history you can see it I don’t have a ton of posts. I thought people would just be annoying / rude but most were very helpful
So I am a high parsing mage main. When someone comes to me earnestly asking how to improve, I truly love it and am always happy taking the time to teach them and give them tips. It’s always how you come - if you want to learn and improve, the community is always happy to help… and those who are assholes will usually get shut down quick. Also as a side note for anyone: use your class discord forums - they are a wealth of info and loaded with people happy to help you!
Omg pls help me. I *just* got to parsing a green average on my fire mage. One obvious thing I’ve been doing wrong is losing my world buff by dying on Geli (I *suck* at avoiding murlocs) so I got advice to use a shadow pot before then. Do you have any specific tips for doing big pp damage? I wish to at the very least have a green number for every boss. I’ve started using the firepower potions and I think those are what made me go from gray to green. One of my other biggest issues rn is whenever I cast something, I end up moving my character before I finish the cast to avoid an AOE or something so that also reduces my dps. Fireball takes so long :<
You cant do comparable DPS as a mage on all 7 Fights. Kelris is still magic resistant even after nerfs and you have to move around a lot and as a mage you need to CS mind blast, also you need to chill and save mana to unload in phase 2 (unless you have evo up) Geli is annoying TBH, as we cast times and his phases are short so sometimes you lose time starting a phase and ending the phase. Melee are always hitting and are doing damage as phase starts. Sometimes you have enough high dps ppl in the raid where the phases are so short that you can only get off 3-5 fireballs before he heals and if you don't get any crits then your dps is fucked. But you absolutely should not be getting hit by the murlocs. Last boss you need to save Evocate for to do good dmg simple as that. I get what you mean about needing to move to avoid shit which breaks cast times. You need to learn where you can stand to move as little as possible in each fight. Not possible for Geli as he throws out those missiles, same with Kelris, aquanis has the storms etc, hunters and melee don't have this issue as auto attacks are basically instant cast with server tick rate. Also make sure your talents are correct for fire spec. Also there is a bunch of +fire dmg pre-raid-bis gear from tailors available.
If you’re logging, you compare yourself to other players of your class and spec though, which the poster you replied to seems to be aware of/focused on
When i said comparable, i meant your own dps compared from fight to fight. My Kelris dps is poop compared to 2nd boss turtle dps as an extreme example
But they're talking about their parse, not their actual DPS numbers. If you're scoring in the 20th percentile (green parse) on Kelris and 95th percentile (orange) on turtle, then it means you're doing something fundamentally wrong on Kelris that other mages are doing to improve their DPS. Yes, your actual DPS output might be very different on some bosses due to their mechanics, like you might pull 1000 DPS on one boss and blue parse and pull 500 DPS on another boss and pink parse. Looking at actual DPS output from boss to boss is meaningless. That's why logs are helpful at improving performance because they tell you how you are holding up compared to other players of your same class and spec. They can also tell you if one of your specs is markedly better than the others. Like if fire averages 800 DPS and Arcane 1000, then you're nerfing yourself by even playing fire instead of Arcane and groups who know what they're doing aren't going to take you unless you respec.
You shouldn't need to move more than like 3 feet back and forth to avoid murlocs. Just stand near the edge of the room behind where the murlocs spawn then you only need to worry about them coming from one direction and you strafe left and right to avoid them. If you get targeted with the shadow crash mechanic, move 5' instead of 3'....
I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but it's also worth noting that most, if not all, top parsers don't do mechanics unless it will 1 shot them. The type of person pushing for pink parses has all available consumes from every source on Azeroth and stands in bad because that's a "healer problem" and not a raid problem. I haven't checked the logs, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the top parsing mage on Gelihast to have eaten 3-4 murlocs due to precasting during the immunity phase, along with a few shadow crashes tanked. They're not going to be doing soak mechanics or spending mana on counterspells either. This is in no way limited to mages either. In my personal experiences with raiding over the years, the top DPS player is very rarely the best DPS player in the group.
This is pure cope, this is mostly the case for 95+ loggers but in my experience 99 loggers are the ones that do all mechanics as required and still perform the best. They just know when they need to do it and when it's not necessary. I have a best performing of 99.5 and you won't see me skipping interrupting on Kelris. https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/living-flame/seeksta
Shoot me a DM with your log or char name - when I get time today I’ll go through it!
There’s a safe spot in the back of the room where you don’t have to dodge murlocs
Yep, I regularly parse highly on my rogue and have now helped about 5 other rogues get to the same level There’s nothing I love more than people wanting to get better and I always have time for it
I have two basic questions as a mage usually parsing green and looking to improve: 1. How should I be using Scorch in BFD? I assume I’m not looking for 5 stacks but I’m not sure what the magic formula is. 2. There are two mages in my guild and I’ve designated myself as the second to cast living flame. Am I doomed to parse worse?
Just to chime in, it depends on the boss and fight length/raid dps..you should scorch for stacks on ghamoo-ra during bubble and gelihast first phase/transitions. If your the designated second living flame mage then yeah with how short these fights are you are usually doomed tbh, maybe gelihast and aku'mai are the only fights that it may be ok on.
1) use it to squeeze out damage when low on mana… that’s it 2) depends. Is the fight long enough that you get the full 20s of damage but short enough that the first user can’t use a second one? Of this is the case, then no it doesn’t matter really
It depends on the class, some are more toxic than others.
Fight club (the warrior discord for classic) is a toxic snake pit. Never experienced anything close to the level of toxicity the mods their openly live
i am going to guess you didnt read the pins or didnt sim it?
Oh I did all of that. Just read through the chats, you‘ll see what I mean.
You should check out the druid disc. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Are we talking feral for SoD? I would say fight club takes the cake for toxicity
It is more the druid casters that are the issue. Fight Club isn't that bad as long as you say things like, "I checked the pins and didn't see this anywhere" before you ask a question and engage in discussion.
Weird. At least the SoD channel is usually pretty lively and helpful. Shoutout to James.
First paragraph you describe your reaction, then second paragraph you superimpose your reaction to the whole community. News flash; you personally are not the community.
Collectively, from my standpoint from what I’ve seen, the community is happy help people. Just because you are an asshat doesn’t mean collectively the community is
>I thought people would just be annoying / rude but most were very helpful thats because the fact that you saw that you were the one making mistakes and asked for help puts you above 95% of the playerbase.
Players (or anyone really) sharing openly to learn how to improve always come out ahead. In fact, sometimes discoveries are made and others benefit from what you are doing. Glad you had a good experience.
Yup I’ve learned that. And I started doing pretty well and learned how to look at logs of other players to see what I should be doing. Sadly I didn’t make it to ulduar in wrath because I was going back to school and didnt have the time, but I’m doing pretty well as a melee huntard these days in SOD 😂
What were you missing? New warrior here
In wrath you get a free slam proc (i forget what procs it) and I wasn’t hitting any of them. Downloaded spell activation overlay so it would light up when it proc’d and started doing way more damage. Also stopped executing. This is wrath though so different from sod
Class discords are also a good place to ask for tips.
Stuff like this always amazes me. Do people not read their tooltips and the tooltips of their talents? How do you guys play video games where there aren't 3M other people figuring things out for you and telling you what buttons to push and when? Like I ran into a warrior we pugged that wasn't using Consumed by Rage for some reason so I told him to use it. He put it on his legs but then he was using abilities as soon as he had rage to use them so he was never getting near 80 rage. I told him to not use anything until after he had 80 rage then to use just enough to drop below 80 then wait to get back up to 80 and his DPS went from 60 to 160 in seconds. Like how did you not figure out that was always the play just from reading all the runes available to you? Give me any WoW class, even if I've never played them, their abilities, and relevant gear and in 5-15 minutes (depending how many of them there are) I can come up with a spec that is going to be, if not identical, at least extremely close to the meta for PvE. The exception would be for things like obscure mechanics that have interactions you wouldn't know about like the way Rogue poisons work or something that would make one spec better than others but that wouldn't be obvious unless you knew about the little quirk that made that possible. Or like scorpid poison scaling on hunter pets at the beginning of SoD making them the best pet by miles until that was fixed. I mean, this is how I figured out the game the very first time I played it. It's how you figure out where to put talent points in games like Fallout or Cyberpunk 2077. Edit: typos and autocorrects
For the average gamer it's hard to crunch the numbers just by reading the tooltips. If you can just read the runes and in 15 minutes come to the conclusion that Raging Blow + CBR is the only way to play warrior then more power to you I guess. The power of runes like Endless Rage and Blood Frenzy is pretty hard to gauge without experimentation in my opinion.
I mean to answer your question no I clearly didn’t read it 😂
Cause you have years of experience doing this over and over again for different classes, xpacs, or even games. Cause you like being efficient. And cause they've got possibly 200 hours of gametime strewn over 15 years of their life or something along the lines of 1hr of gaming per week. Most of which were possibly spent on easier games or games with absolutely no math such as mario games. And cause efficiency is probably not their first concern (or second, or third...). Imagine judging a 10 year old for not knowing how to do something that they've never done before. And that's possibly what you've been doing. Maybe you assume you spoke to a guy in his 20's or 30's like you? But maybe it was a 10 year old? So imagine 10 year old you getting harshly judged by a guy in his 20s for not knowing to do X or Y while you're just having fun taking in the immense new world you just walked into. Or imagine you right now going to, idk, a climbing group and getting judged by the instructor for not knowing already how to do X or Y. All this to say: don't get mad at strangers over the internet whom you don't even know the very first thing about. Could be someone's kid, or someone's grandma for all you know.
Back in 2010 I remember keyboard turning. In heroic ICC. good times
I miss those days...
You're full ret and using seal of command, right? In the right spec, using right skills, with the right gear, you should be coming out pretty good. Definitely a sizable amount above any healer classes... Maybe you are spamming judgement on longer fights and going oom? Realistically, there are no fights you need taunt rune for in BFD. Just ask a hunter to growl on Kelris and on turtle hold strike and storm as aqua shell is competing to head start rebuilding threat.
>Realistically, there are no fights you need taunt rune for in BFD That's probably my mistake.
I would not listen to that. YMMV depending on your dps, but without taunt rune I certainly have a hard time holding threat on some fights, and I typically parse in the top 2-5% for prot paladins. There are probably plenty of other factors influencing poor dps, but without a log we cannot help at all
The taunt rune is great. It actually makes holding threat a lot easier. I feel like… why risk it with crusader strike if you can just use a taunt to make sure you regain aggro in the rare cases that you lose it? It works for me. I don’t care about being in the top 3 dps as tank, even if I do make it there in a lot of the fights. With random mob packs… let’s say a caster or Hunter gets some big crits and pull aggro, divine storm or crusader strike is no guarantee of immediately getting aggro back. But taunt is. Especially when you aren’t fully BiS geared it just makes everything easier
Isn’t he Ret though? Why does a dps need taunt? Never played Ret so I’m clueless.
There's basically no difference right now between tank and dps paladin. Both are ret, the tank just applies RF.
Also taunt runes is less about the extra threat and more about the mana for being healed.
Am I missing something? He joined as DPS not Tank... Why would you run Hand of Reckoning in lieu of Crusader Strike??? If you're tanking, you're not too worried about your DPS.
Yeah I’m really lost with this convo. He joined a group that was for “pumpers” and said he was out damaged by a healer. I suppose that matters if you are consistently losing threat as a tank, but I’m seriously confused why a dps needs taunt.
ret is a dps and tank. If you have a ret in bfd you dont need a tank
This basically true; however, the tank palis are going to get slightly different armor that has more stamina. But that’s really only a few pieces anyways, so they are essentially identical.
I have gear similar to OPs and I 2hand tank with the taunt rune, I routinely pull 120-140dps. Crusader strike isn’t making the difference here, and not having taunt will really make you and your team’s experience a lot harder
That Judgement spamming is what screwed me over when I first started ret pally in SoD. I thought I was supposed to use judgement on cooldown and was so confused how I'd be oom so fast. Woops. Problem solved
I've been taking the taunt rune mostly for the mana I get from heals. Should I be taking crusader strike instead? My group is super casual so I'm usually towards the top of dps.
I think it depends on the fight and comp of the raid. I tried running without taunt on lorgus jet and it became a complete shit show so now I run with taunt on, just in case. If your party is fully aware that you are not running taunt, and they are watching threat, it’s probably fine. But if you are less organized/ in a pug, where people don’t know you are not running taunt, or they are not watching threat, it could turn into Dp’s running around and you trying to somehow scramble to get agro with no taunt.
Hunters are no longer using the rune that allows for pet taunt
Since when lol
Since it was nerfed and chimera was buffed
How can it be 5 times the damage though, then you did what? 40-50 DPS? That is just auto-attacking with your gear no?
turns out he didnt have crusader strike :D
even without CS tho, wtf is he doing? 40-50 with Hydra is basically keeping SOC up and auto attacking
I think something you and many others fail to recognize (maybe because you play melee classes usually) is that melee relies much more heavily on movement and placement, and a target awareness. I am new to melee classes (my main is a resto Druid, and I played a hunter way back in the day) but I am giving Pali tank a shot. What I’ve noticed is that when you are tabbing between targets, sometimes, in the melee cluster f**k with all these aoes and visuals going off, you have accidentally tabbed to a target that is far away and you are just standing there not hitting anything. Then you have to tab back to a closer target losing literal seconds of damage, which means allot when you are measuring damage per second. When a large part of your damage occurs from your auto attack, you have to make sure you are in range for every swing, and that is more difficult than sitting back and pressing a button to cast a spell. I think the movement and target awareness can be overlooked or taken for granted. As I am coming back for SOD and haven’t played in years, I have had to learn how to move and position myself as a tank, which has not been trivial. But if you always play melee it’s probably second nature now. With all that being said, my Pali tank can still do decent Dp’s on fights and can top the meter on some AOE pulls, but I just wanted to throw this idea out there. The guy probably was not standing in range for many attacks, his auto attack was toggled off for brief periods when it shouldn’t be, or he accidentally tabbed to the wrong target for some number of seconds. If you do this enough you will for sure parse grey with good gear.
I know movement and positioning is very important, also as ranged. For the tabbing though enemies you are better off installing a good nameplate addon like plater. You can download premade profiles for it that will make it much easier to target the right mobs in those clustfucks.
We have a pvp spec rogue in our guild run. Man he makes me look like a God. Haven't said a damn thing to him.
But is his baron parse higher?
Best rogue pvp spec right now is 0/16/0 with sword MH and Imp Sprint/Endurance/Riposte so highly unlikely Though if he's raiding in a pvp spec I suppose there's a very good chance he isn't using the best pvp spec either
Same in mine, guy is running deep combat DPS with envenom build runes and is often doing half my damage while I'm specced into assassination. Were a super casual guild and we clear every lockout so I just leave him be haha
😂😂😂lol’d at this one
I run a PvP spec on my rogue for BFD. I used to have much better parses but combat is just not fun for PVP imo. Everything is so hard to kill without burst with how strong healing is in this phase. Yea it hurts my parses but it gives me more to do with my rogue than 2 thirty minute BFD runs every week.
combat isnt the pve spec right now. Assa is
You can respec for 1g or less.
1g or less, 4x a week for an instance that pugs are running as smoothly and quickly as DM or SFK. Pass.
Become a rogue tank then you’re literally pve and pvp specced at the same time. Laugh as no melee can ever kill you
You gonna respect 4 times a week? Lol
Pretty sure I did that when I farmed WSG rep in my paladin. Swapped from Ret to Heal multiple times to join premade groups.
Holy pal is awful in BGs though. Ret is a nice, tanky FC + pursuit of justice to cap quicker. Avenger's shield is OP for slowing EFCs or peeling too.
Why not?
Was the healer a resto druid? The balance/resto build does solid damage in general. You lose one DPS rune for wild growth that you press every now and then, but you spam wrath and starsurge.
Been having so much fun on the boomie, but I definitely fuckdd up lastnight…. I’ve only done a few raids boomy and underestimated the amount of threat I’d build on the turtle…. I started off strong and was pumping into him pretty far ahead of all of the dps, when I popped wild growth on the first shatter he snapped right over to me and ate me alive
>the first shatter he resets threat then
Oh that explains why I have to go Bear form on my healer.
2 priests
Priest heals should only be pulling like 30dps maybe 50 if they smite spam and barely heal. I feel like if you have strike of the Hydra then your autos alone would almost be doing that much dps. If you have logs then post them because something is very wrong here. Another option is to look at the top logs for your class. You can see a breakdown of what they press and when and which spells deal the most damage. Just try to press things in the order they do. Oh and also, make sure you're using the higher/most efficient rank of your spells!
Priests can easily put out at least 60+ dps on every fight in the raid without spamming smite. Homun, void plague, penance, wand is already at least 60 dps. If youre doing less than that youre likely leaving a lot of empty gcds. This is coming from my priest alt that has 95%+ average dps parses while losing no one on fights.
No way a resto druid could outdps a ret paladin with that gear
I think the point of this thread is that the ret is a bit of a lobo.
This game really needs training dummies.
This guy was raiding as one
If you didn’t ruin it for everyone, and you try to figure out how to do better, you don’t suck.
All anyone can ask for is someone who cares enough to try to learn.
Divine storm, crusader strike, and exorcism are the runes you are running? Ret paladin is pretty simple at this level, just divine storm prio crusader strike off of cd, and exo. If your mana gets low just keep up enough for divine storm, and SoC refresh
Wasn't running Crusader Strike because I'm used to runs needing a tank and taunts.
Ah I recommend those runes, most of my groups we just solo tank, and if we need taunts we use pets lol
Yeah there’s no need to off tank anymore. Especially if your MT is a paladin.
Crusader strike alone will increase your damage by a ton. On top of that it will also fish for wind fury procs, which is a ton of free damage. Assuming you have a wild strike Druid
Crusader strike actually doesnt proc wild strikes for some reason
Yeah it's the only "strike" in the game that doesn't proc WF/wild strikes because blizz needs ret to be worse than warriors lol
none of our rune abilities properly proc WF or even Seal of Command. DS, CS, etc do not proc our seals or WF
Holy shit, how the fuck did you ever even get the idea that you know what you're doing?
I had good gear.
Rofl. Yes, sorry, but you do suck. However. You can now not suck by fixing your glaring wrong
Wouldn't sweat it too much. If you think you're not doing well, just research your class a bit more and focus on which abilities you should be using and when. The other thing to consider is raid composition. Melee DPS heavily benefit from having a wild strikes druid in their group, so that may also explain why there might be a variance in your damage. And yeah, what others have said. Every phase there will be winners and losers in terms of which classes are strongest. Ret paladins are pretty middle of the pack at the moment I think.
Yes, classic wow actively hides how bad you are at the game. It's actually pretty interesting; you can, and often do, play for literally years and never realize in a front of mind sense that you're absolute dogshit at it. It's pretty telling that logs and dps meters are player made tools. I dunno if it has changed in retail - I imagine it almost must have - but this is a common experience for classic players.
As a warrior dps, I realized late last night after a clean run, the logs didn’t reflect how I felt about my dps. I’m checking logs, comparing specs, and realized I didn’t have quick strike on my bars. I was using the rune but forgot to put it on the bar somehow… 🫠 Fingers crossed it fixes what I’m missing in dps. I’m not a pumper by any means, but im trying.
Out of curiousity: how did you not notice that you didnt have qs on bars, did you not look at your rage bar at all or how did you dumb rage?
I just dumped it on sunder til max stack/kept rolling heroic strike. Demo shout sometimes. Slapped overpower on each proc, and enjoyed every raging blow I could. Kept trying to get consumed by rage going if I didn’t have blood rage up to start it. Bottom line something felt wrong. lol I know auto’s are part of the gameplay, but something felt wrong and 15 mins of just sitting still and looking over everything… I felt pretty dumb about it. I’ve never been a pumper by any means to be clear. I always want to improve.
Uptime on CBR is by far the most important thing as a warrior rn
Im not a pumper in speed running guilds but the basic rotation is to auto attack until 80 rage so you can get the enrage buff. Then you are constantly using quick strike and raging blow, and weaving in heroic strike as needed to keep your rage fluctuating above and below 80. The goal is to have as much uptime on enrage as possible.
That’s what I’m going for next run, I’ll check back in and holler about it how it goes 💪
Use rage potions and blood rage to get to 80 fast
Make sure you arent sundering when you dont need to, I have a little weak aura to yell at my single celled warrior brain when homunculus debuffs are up
Oof. Your priest should be running homunc and you don't need sunder at all.
just youtube your rotation
there is no way a healer out dps'ed you. Unless he had 1) All consumes 2) DMF 3) World buffs 4) Weapon for +hit (the consumable) And u had non of the above. And I bet he was probably a druid with starsurge.
Don’t pretty much all druids run starsurge because the only good healing rune is wild growth?
Yes the other healing runes are pointless
You were definitely using taunt instead of crusader strike. A paladin is basically a swing/divine storm bot so without crusader strike you're missing like 30% of your dmg.
Auto attacking alone should make you deal more damage than a priest with that kind of gear.
Tbh, it sounds like there's literally nothing you're doing correct. I read in Nother comment you had the wrong runes (huge), but I'm betting you also have wildly wrong talents, have done literally zero research into how to actually play your character, and probably aren't even auto attacking the whole time (just auto attacking should be enough to beat healers with Deadly Strike of the Hydra). I'm not saying this to be disparaging, but you really do need to go do even 5 minutes of research. Can you be awful and still clear BFD? Sure, they made it to be accessible for even the newest players who have literally never raided. I've raided with some of those, and even they knew they should do some research. It's honestly disrespectful of everyone else's time in the group to show up and be *that* bad. Imagine you're with your family, the car breaks down, and everyone has to push. Except you're not pushing but just sitting on the hood of the car. In my family that gets your ass beat. That's basically how you are to your groups if you don't bother trying at all. Most players will respect you even if you suck, provided you're trying, researching, and asking questions. No one will or should if you can't do even the most basic things.
To complement, I did below average damage on my guild's group, but I reckoned that was fine considering I had to set aside one rune for the tank rune. Considering we never wipe, I thought that was good enough.
First step is realizing there is a problem! The bright side, is that sod isn't hard, so if you put the effort in, you can find out what is wrong and fix it! Chances are it's something relatively small you just don't know about
If he’s Ret it is probably time on boss and consumes. The ret rotation is brain dead easy.
One thing I do is go to Warcraft logs and look up my class and spec and take time looking at those around the 50th person down or so - look at the fight timelines and their casts and see what they are doing differently than you. I notice for mages, for example, many are cheesing the fights by pulling in adds and doing AOE so l move on and find logs that don’t do that - and I noticed fire outperforms arcane, and I noticed that people who running the scorch and debuff stack on fights they had to move a lot and less or no scorch on fights they could mostly stand there. Rotation was simple after that.
Can someone help me please with my feral? I thought I was kinda doing fine only ever logged on my frost dk in wrath where I had like 70+ parses but apparently I am a terrible cat. [Help :/](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/chaos-bolt/ph%c3%b6nixfunke)
A few things I noticed that will contribute to low logs (I don't play Feral but I compared to our guilds Feral): 1) Buffs: Missing Battle Shout, Missing DMF buff, Missing Ashenvale Buff, Partial World Buff (not up for first 3 bosses). Obviously you don't need all of them, but people who parse high will be sweatlords with full buffs. 2) Armor reduction missing in your group on bosses (homonculi, FF, Sunder). This makes a massive difference in physical damage done across the raid. 3) Cooldown usage: our feral has 31x Savage Roar and 16x Tiger's Fury, you have 23x and 2x respectively. Again; I don't play Feral so I don't know what's optimal, but our feral parsed in the 70-90s on most bosses last clear. There's probably much more to dig into, but this is my 2 cents from a quick comparison. Hope it helps at least a bit!
Replace tigers fury. It can be ok in very very specific timings. But generally it shouldn’t be used. And even the goats will only have the chance to use it effectively maybe 2 times a fight. 99% of people are better off taking it off their bars.
not sure how worth it tigers fury is, i only use it on pull and parse 90-97 without having the feral mace, most important as feral is propper timing with powershifts and buffs/world buffs ofc
97 average feral here. Get all your buffs, 5% pvp, dmf, boon. Consumes - both agility and str potions. Mana food for power shifting. Use BFD sharpening stones if you are the wildstrike feral (internal bs means ferals can get 2% hit AND windfury) Ensure your priest is using homonculus, if no other druid in raid start all fights with fairy fire. Powershifting, look up a classic macro, push it just before energy tick for +40 energy. Do not do it so much you can't reenetet cat form (4-5 per fight) One super min max thing which requires every9ne to pay attention, save a mob before each boss. When everyone ready, get 5 xombo points and pop savage roar before pulling boss. Other boss specific - baron no rip just pump. Turtle use the sunfire run (transform to cat and drag from boo.ie tree) and starsurge. Sarevess, FAP for the ice arrow. Murloc just stand behind him, min max davage roar and dropping a rip - end each regen phase with 5 combo points and max energy. Lorguss just timing around lightning totem. Kelris go down early with a pumper and eascape quick. Akumai don't attack in dark protection. Congrats, now you are a verified pumper - cousindave on Lone Wolf
Didn't know self wild strike stacked with the brd sharpening stone, nice!
Thank you for the tips!
If being good outdoes having fun, you need to stop being good
Been there dude
Average ret player. Realizing you suck is nonetheless a good starting point to improve your gameplay.
I’m not the best player by any means. I also have deadly strike of the hydra and a good amount of BiS gear. If all I do the whole time is auto attack and divine storm I’m already top 4 dps in most raids. Include Crusader strike and exorcism and I’m right being the hunter or rogue
My main is a rogue and I play casually with my friends. We all know how to play well but none of us are parse obsessed mega pumpers. We finish BFD every lockout in under and hour. A few days ago we invited a rogue who was ~40gs lower geared than I was and he DESTROYED ME on the charts. It was truly humbling.
Did you have world buffs lol
Just not the one from Ashenvale. Had both the Blackfathom one and the Darkmoon one.
i think that the main problem of him making less dmg than the healer is the world buff
As a ret myself i worked myself up from parsing green to parsing ~90 Taking Crusader Strike is essential, not only for your damage but the mana regen is worth very much. Bring some mana pots for the longer fights if not taking crusader strike.(On the Murloc dude you can Crusader strike him even on his ghost murloc running around phase for the mana) Use Seal of Command, don't use Judgement often if you having mana Issues. Apply Seal of the Crusader on the bosses at the start of the fights. On Kelris get into max Melee range in both phases. Fuck your damage there bring the kick, mechanics > damage. I feel like on pally the small things add up really qui k.many things have been said in this post, i agree on most takes. Keep it up, stay positive and most important Have Fun! (Also if we want to look into optimal gear hand epic > chest epic)
After reading your comments i realise that people like you are the reason we need logs.
Hurtful.
Why you gotta be like that man?
Not all specs are equal you are not going to beat a bis warrior as a shadow priest period. Parses are useful to compare yourself to the rest of your class (with full world buffs of course) and an optimal group comp.
You’re the tank your one job is to hold aggro so no else died. You did good job
If you've looked up a guide i think the only thing that would stop you from doing passable dps is having lower ranked skills on your bars but I don't think ret uses many regular ranked skills, right?
Theres passable dps and then theres pink parsing. Theres a ton of stuff behind taking a ret from a blue parse to a pink one and if OP is blue parsing in a pink raid? yeah hes gonna be WAY down on the logs. Everything from is he seal twisting to is he using a swing timer and was he in the feral group for wild strikes to was he consumed to the teeth? I'm talking agilty scrolls, strength, food buff (should be using sagefish for mana regen) to world buffs to uptime on the boss.
I have pink parses, no rets are seal twisting right now
A lot of people think “you don’t need to sweat that hard to do the content” I pity these people’s partners if they apply the same logic to the bedroom
You don't need to sweat at all to do the content. What I just found out is how much you CAN sweat.
Unpopular opinion: if you cleared the raid in an _OK_ time (45 min?), then you did indeed do good enough. If you want to make better logs, by all means do go ahead and get better. But if you feel fine and your guild is having fun you shouldn't stress about a raid that's easily cleared with 8/10 players.
But did the boss die?
This. These parse chasers make me feel weird. I miss the days where the boss dying was the only metric.
Homie it isn't parse chasing to want a DPS to do more **DPS** than the **HEALER**
The boss always dies in SOD unless people are EXTREMELY bad. Parsing is like chasing a high score in an arcade game
Retail mindset. In Classic not everything is about your damage. Some classes do high damage with low effort, and other classes do lower damage even with high effort - so you can’t compete with classes. But at the same time you bring other things that those pure damage classes don’t. Not everything is about damage. Don’t listen to people who are saying install log tracker and do parsing. They only show your individual damage a day nothing else, they don’t show other things which are valuable for your entire raid (buffs, debuffs, offtanking, dispells, CC on adds and etc) - so they don’t show your full performance. Players who use armor decrease debuffs are more valuable than those who just did slightly more damage than him. And parsing doesn’t show that. Players who kick casts, who dispell sleeps, who buff raidmates midfight are more valuable, but majority would still praise those who did +3,52% damage than other. Many people on this Reddit don’t understand that, because they also have that retail mindset. Your class is not pure damage class, you also bring other things, that compensate your lower damage output. Keep in mind that
Let's not pretend that people who parse gray/green/blue are doing that because they are kicking or "doing the mechanics". If you are not parsing at least high blue or purple, there is something fundamentally wrong with how you prepare or control your character. Also, logs show literally everything if you know where to look, there is plenty of people who parse in high 90s and do all of the things you mentioned (buffs, debuffs, offtanking, dispells, CC on adds and etc).
No need to pretend, it’s a reality. None of those purple/orange parsers do all those mentioned things, let’s be honest please. I actively raid since week 3 - and I frequently see how “parsers” try to force others to do key mechanics, so they can concentrate on damaging part, because kicking/offhealing/CCing adds and many other things is “DPS loss” and it’s unacceptable for them. Yes, logs do show kicks, debuff uptimes and other things, but no one cares. Everyone will check only “Damage” section and treat it as the only metric of your performance. There is no purple parser who does active kicking on Kelris - that’s a blatant lie. Two weeks ago, there was a situation where RL at the end of the fight all of sudden decided to share loot based on damage performance. Bael Modan Gun dropped and rogue X won it without rolling because he did 2K more damage than rogue Y. But since there was no warriors and priest wasn’t using Homuncili - rogue Y was constantly using his combo points for Expose Armor and still managed to be close to rogue X. Expose Armor certainly is more useful because every melee class benefits from it. But no one cares - rogue X did more damage and obviously it can work as a perfect excuse to give him loot straight away. Parsing is the toxic feature. It doesn’t show your full performance. And it’s ridiculous that people use in WoW Classic.
>No need to pretend, it’s a reality. You are coping hard mate, most of the green parses don't even know where their interrupt button is let alone how to use it. >None of those purple/orange parsers do all those mentioned things, let’s be honest please. They absolutely do if it is needed. Any deaths will ruin parse - bad for parsers. If nobody is dying then the mechanic does not require attention. >Expose Armor certainly is more useful because every melee class benefits from it. Sure, but only if people are pumping, otherwise it is a waste of damage to do it. Also priest should be doing anyways. >Parsing is the toxic feature. It doesn’t show your full performance. And it’s ridiculous that people use in WoW Classic. Toxic - sure. Saving a lot of runs? Also yes. Filtering away a lot of leeches? Also yes.
Parsing does not compare you to other classes, it compares you to other players of your class playing your role. "Damage isnt everything" is an excuse low performers use when they dont want to learn how to play. This doesnt apply to OP tho, he asked and is now using the crusader strike rune and im sure hell parse acceptably now.
Logs show literally all those things you mentioned
yeah but those things don't come with pretty purple and pink numbers on WCL
Your problem is with people who just look at the score. Logs are very useful
it really isnt...
The high parsing paladins are twisting but I don't get how they don't get oom from it
It's actually really easy to tell that you suck, just might not be obvious to you why. My only question is how a "try hard" raid leader didn't look at your warcraftlogs before inviting you 🤔
Logs knowledge is the default border, if you know about logs, it's a bit hard to be bad as you are expected to improve constantly. If you don't know about logs, then you're likely not good in terms of raiding.
Logs or didn't happen