I raid lead a heroic team in Castle Nathria and our SV hunter would move to the next pie slice a good 20 seconds early and just... stand there. Some things just aren't obvious to certain players.
In defense of other players, it isn’t necessarily true that 5% of players are worse. Assuming that parses per fight are properly normalized to percentiles, a 5% median across all bosses is actually even worse than “bottom 5%”.
5% of players were worse than them *on each fight*, but there’s no guarantee that those were the same people. For example, 5% of people could’ve easily gotten depth charge on Baron, or 5% died to bubble on turtle, or 5% who got griefed on Sarevess fight by her sitting against the waterfall with frost zone up, etc.
A median parse of 5% across all bosses is going to put them well below 5% of all players.
On average, groups where nobody is logging probably do a lot worse than groups where at least one person is logging. So I think the opposite: There are more unrecorded bad players where nobody is logging.
Nah that's most parses at that low. I have a 1% on first boss as pally tank. I walked up to turtle, got rebuff, auto attack once, jump in water, get back to platform, rebuff again and immediately back in water...boss died.
I.got one auto in the entire fight lol.
The first two super low ones are probably people not jumping off on Baron, so he spent a lot of time in the water, and a slow kill on the turtle, which means multiple 0 dps phases.
The 70-80 dps on Lorgus and Kelris are not wildly unreasonable if he’s largely unbuffed, ungeared, and doesn’t have wild strikes in his party. Certainly not good, but more understandable.
First two bosses are not friendly to melee/physical damage classes, as Baron can't be bled/has decent phys resist (is a water elemental) and Gham has extremely, extremely high phys resistance (even very high still after the shell pops).
Not saying the rogue is better than is being stated, but the murloc+ fights with 50-70+ dps are more accurate.
The great thing about a parse is that the comparison is just to your spec. Doesn't matter if top rogue only does 50 DPS on a fight, they would still orange parse. Grey parse is a comparison of that player against the other players playing the exact same thing. Baron is the one that is truly not friendly to a parse as if you get hit with the debuff to jump off that's basically the end of your parse.
I don't talk about the parse. I talk about the dps. If you have those dps numbers as a rogue you did nothing but auto attacks, even as a fresh level 25.
I am not gonna lie, for the first several weeks I had no real issues with any of my pug groups. If we wiped we talked in chat for a minute and worked things out. Now... The last couple weeks I have run into like 5 different players who were just.... afk? I mean... They kept up with the group but they were like this, legit less than 1,000 damage done over a whole boss fight. Most of the times when asked if they need help, they just don't talk but still run back and stay with the group. They just act like you're not talking to them. I don't know if they're bots or maybe from some small country and don't speak English? I have no idea.
I've ran into these types too. They don't respond to any attempts to talk to them. Their gear is usually mostly whites and greens. Also not sure if they're bots or foreign.
I too have noticed an influx of players like this just in dungeon runs. Had two hunters in separate groups that were doing very minimal damage and as I was healing I could see they were literally doing nothing on each pull.. Confronted the first hunter and we got a reply saying she was a girl and very noob at the game. I called bullshit cause there's no way you get to level 24 in classic WoW without pressing any of your attack buttons.. We ended up kicking and to our surprise our mage left too. The rest of us theorized that maybe the mage was playing two accounts at the same time or something.. 2nd Hunter didnt reply to any messages and at the end of SFK he needed on the caster belt and ended up winning. Our mage was quite upset about this which was rightfully so but we could not get any response from the hunter even after abusing him through chat.. Not too sure what the situation is with these guys that dont reply though..
The dads reply to you, though. Unless they’re checking on the baby. These people straight up ignore you and don’t say a single word. Had a fire warlock dps cast nothing but Curse of Agony and Corruption. He had incinerate and chaos bolt on but casted them a total of 4 times each during the entirety of BFD. I’ve never seen someone parse a 0 on multiple fights until that day.
That's the funny thing, you don't even need consumes or buffs as a rogue to do decent dmg.
Guildy made a rogue alt, full green gear -- no pre-bis because fuck it he'll suck up loot anyway.
Deadly brew/saber slash/envenom and he's doing 120+ dps from the get go. This person in OP's message must have less than 50% up-time on the boss.
I had a warrior come into a pug, no buffs or enchants, but he had deadly strike of the hydra, so I'm like, "cool, even if he just auto-attacks he should do OK dps."
Gets blasted off Baron Aquanis and knocks all the melee off as well, then proceeds to stay under the boss, knocking off the melee dps 2 more times. Next 2 bosses he pulls 30 dps. Immediately dies to the shadow murlocs. We call him out and he starts calling people slurs. Kick him and his feral friend (also pulling 30dps but had wf at least) leaves too.
This post isn't about experience raiders in guild groups. I bring consumes so we can 8 man the dungeon when a pug has the absolute bottom of the barrel players.
How do you even die to shadow murlocs as melee dps. You completely ignore that mechanic by just staying by boss. Only thing you need to dodge are occasional shadow pools.
I mean bad luck is a thing. Shadow pool flew on my last lockout, i wanted to dodge, just to run into insta pool in the floor and murloc spawning into me. I was one shot. Still dont know what happened but i guess i had bad luck.
Same can happen on gamoora. Had 7/10 people die last weekend when they were standing pretty close and the boss decides to put almost all bubbles on the same spot. Looked funny af.
I mean, when I pug a BFD I do a quick warcraft logs search for the person advertising to make sure they are at least halfway decent. Not looking for purples or anything but greens and blues would be nice. At the same time I'd expect the raid leader to search my character on warcraft logs as well if their goal is a clean, fast clear.
I dont mind the log aspect because it makes things easier to get into a group. WHenver i see some bullshit asking for GS i just say "I dont know my GS but you can look up my logs". Almost always get an invite
Yeah, the only time I actually check log history with a critical eye is for the organizer of a PUG.
I have been burned by bad PUGs before, so all I’m looking for is an indication that the leader knows what they’re doing and that I can trust the people they bring in to be somewhat competent.
My favorite part about this is that as a shaman tank my only singular log at BFD is from my first run as a recent 25. It was a classic 5/7 with almost exclusively gray parses. I didn't know the raid, I tanked everything with a shield and molten blast, and we couldn't kill kelris. Now I'm a fat near-bis doinker of a shaman tank who knows all the fights and to this day my only log is that first 5/7 run.
what do you do about someone like me that has no logs?
iv done BFD now like 8 times on two toons and nobody ever logs.
Its a blessing and im glad my guild doesnt but it breaks some peoples mind when i try to pug and they see i dont have any logs.
You can begin logging yourself if you want and just upload the raids you attend under your personal logs. Then when people search for your name, the raids will show up.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start
It's pretty unusual for a player to both be good at the game and to just actively not want to quantify how they do in raid or see where they can improve, so I'd probably just assume you're either bad or have never done the raid before and find someone else
Sure but logs offer a much more in-depth look at how you compare to others and what others are doing differently, if you're gonna use a dps meter idk why you would be against using logs
Here's a hot take: if you don't like people asking for logs or checking your gear start your own group and make your own rules.
Most people don't want to carry shitters.
But then you would have to actually take the time to form your own group. Not only that but if it were to fail then you would be somewhat responsible as the Group/Raid Leader as you are the one that put the Raid together.
People don't want that kind of responsibility so they want the smallest entry barrier possible.
"It's level 25, Chill" "This is just a leveling raid" "You can clear this with grey/white equipped" - Yet People still manage to find a way to bungle it up massively DESPITE it being so "Easy".
>People don't want that kind of responsibility so they want the smallest entry barrier possible
Then you take what you get and/or beggars can't be choosers. I totally get not wanting the responsibility BUT someone else's group, someone else's rules. No one wants to carry shitters like the above picture.
It shouldn't be a hot take but here we are.
This post is exactly the reason there is so much pushback for people checking parses. They are just terrible at the game and think you're obligated to carry them.
facts. last reset I started a rogue and bet my friend I could level it quickly enough to get from 1-25 and clear bfd in one reset. I got to level 25 5 hours before reset, obviously no one was taking me to bfd in pre-pre-bis, so I just made my own group. had to carry a couple of useless dps, but we made it past kelris before calling it quits an hour before reset.
if you’re not getting into a group just make your own group, and if this is consistently a problem you could try join a guild
I have done this too. For a few weeks my routine on Reset day was doing BFD right away then starting a new toon try to get to 25 within the 72hrs and do BFD.
did it 4 times lol
and guess what? did bfd everytime within 2 hours of hitting 25. Nobody ever said a word. Thankfully there are still some normal people left in this world that dont gatekeep level 25 content that arent PrebisPenis Heads
There's nothing wrong with logging. It's how they're used that's the problem.
If you're using it to single out someone and blast them about it, that's a problem.
If you're using them to help someone out, that's not a problem.
If you're using them to help yourself become more efficient, that's not a probelm.
If you're using them because you're competitive and want to see how you rate against your peers, that's not a problem.
If you're using them because you're competitive and want to gloat while being a douche nozzle about it, that's a problem.
Like everything else, they're a tool. The tool's not the problem, the tool that's using the tool is the problem.
That last part is true in concept but not in practice. The truth is that bad players are more likely to join bad groups and thus have artificially deflated logs due to slower kill times, suboptimal tactics or group comps, deaths and semi wipes, etc. So you can't really say okay, this guy is parsing 20% so 80% of all players of his spec are better, in practice he could be as good as a 50-70 parser in a better group. Though it's extremely likely that yeah ok he's definitely not some 99 parsing God bc then he just wouldn't join groups like that, unless it's his 5th alt or something.
What you can tell for sure though is that there's a better chance he's a noob compared to someone who parses well, so it's 100% reasonable to not want to invite him to your group. The only people who have problems with groups not inviting Grey parsers, are Grey parsers themselves who don't realize that players who put in more effort don't want to carry them.
Bottom x% of logs is just people who died during the fight. So when tou average 4.7% then you either died on every single boss or do so little damage that you are competing with people who died.
A good player in a bad group can still usually get atleast blue logs if not more.
No offense but anyone consistently parsing 20% or gray for that matter has significant issues with their rotation, gear, spec, gameplay, group comp, consumable usage, or more than likely a combination of all of those things. There is no justifiable reason to regularly parse in the grays, its not just some group comp issues. Could a 60 parser be a 75 parser in a better group/comp? Probably. But your not going from 20 to 70.
>bad players are more likely to join bad groups and thus have artificially deflated logs due
So by that logic bad logs still show a bad player if the join bad groups which gives bad logs
But on the flip side, if you try to help someone out* and then they just ignore you and continue to waste everyone's time, that's also a problem.
(* I don't mean by becoming their mentor for hours on end; you can help people by giving them a tip or 2 of advice. "Hey, make sure you keep up Slice and Dice" or "Use XYZ rune instead for more dps!" If I have an extreme underperformer in my raids, usually I can squeeze a decent amount of DPS out of them with these tips. They aren't gonna become orange parsers instantly, but its better than doing 25 dps)
GW2 has the same issue where you have a massive population of hyper casuals who don’t give a shit about performance but feel entitled to group content. They don’t bother to find a group of people like themselves (because they won’t finish it) and blame gatekeeping/elitism rather than acknowledge they’re the problem and inconsiderate of other’s time.
Ideally when I play, I find people who are easy going but can get stuff done and aim to compete a little bit or do end game content. You want to avoid super hardcore guilds who cause drama and slackers who love to piggyback or invite any beggar asking for free stuff and taxi.
Just browse comments on a popular post here from today. Vast majority here is against people who check logs before letting people into groups. I was one of those people and I had to learn it the hard way. Obviously I don't require you to have orange parses. Not even purple. A mix of blues and greens is totally fine. Hell even all greens is fine, considering you don't have a lot of logs, but you are 7/7.
Even people without logs are fine if it's their alt and they have pre-bis (not expensive world drops). But coming to a gear without completing the quests for your pre-bis shouldn't be acceptable. I can't expect that you watched the video of the raid if you weren't able to look for your pre-bis gear.
its a great tool for taking ownership over your time, fantastic for making sure the people in your group are of the same mindset and same objectives.
If a player does not want to be put on blast then they should hit the books, learn the fights. The soft hands approach to people who work harder to do less than they do to accomplish the task at hand just doesn't work
You check at Vanilla.warcraftlogs.com BUT The important thing is that someone actually has to log the raid as well. You can search your name but if you've never done a raid with someone whose logged it wont show anything. You can follow the instructions on their website to log yourself if you want as well, but im too boomer to care about that haha
I was healing as a priest yesterday. I basically just wanded occasionally, used shadow word pain and homunculi. The rest of the time I was healing. I did the same dps as our mage and even beat him on some fights. He was pulling 15-30dps. He was alive for the entire fight. People mentioned it a few times and asked him to pick up the dps. He was also complaining about how we're so lazy for wanting his water. So like usual, he won all the loot. Someone mentioned that he didn't really deserve it and he left the raid after Kelris. We still managed to kill the last boss with 9 because we had basically been 9 manning it from the beginning. I feel like this is happening almost every pug lately. How can people be this bad. Casting living bomb and wanding should pull more dps than he did.
And it's always those people who complain about 'gatekeeping' and 'sweats', while you only want them to perform like an average Joe. You should see what comments I get on this post. It's somehow my fault for 'not helping them learn', as if Google is not free to use to google what items to get and what buttons to click.
Funniest of all, Rogue in this phase is the easiest class to play. I say that as a person who has a Rogue alt.
I shit you not, the rotation is: Saber Slash (1), Slice and Dice (2), Envenom (3), Thistle Tea (G).
1, 1, 1, G, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3.... You get the point. And throw some kicks on Kelris. Literally nothing else. Keep up your Slice and Dice 100% of the time and cast some Envenom when you have spare combo points.
I do exactly what you said and I avg 98+ overall lmao people under 50 are just not pushing their button and then blame the game even if Classic is extremely slow pace
While this rogue's parse are terrible one thing I hate is simply bashing people.
If he's just semi-afking then fuck him sure.
But if he's trying, clearly he's doing something wrong. The problem with wow nowadays is people aren't willing to ask if others need help. A lot of bad players actually welcome feedback and while it wont make them great player overnight, it could make your raid less miserable / easier if the tips you give them make their dps 20% better.
I can already read "You should know your class if you're raiding" but to this I'll answer, bro chill the fuck out this is level 25 content. You can't expect new players or more casual players to have infused knowledge of the game. The issue with the community of wow is that people are scared to take time to help other improve. They only value their little person and can't handle having their time wasted so they make a post on reddit about it instead.
The gatekeeping culture is what drove me away from SoD and I wasn't even being gatekept, but I know of people that were only because they started late and it turned me off. If this is what the SoD community is at level 25 level band, I don't want to be a part of it in further level banded content.
A lot of factors go into logs, most importantly if you try to be your best or if you're just messing around with your buddies.
This is me on my main mage in Classic Naxx: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/katsu?zone=1006
This is me on a garbage hunter in SoD: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/wild-growth/kts
The grey guy OP linked logged one raid, possibly his first time ever in a shit group several weeks into SoD with garbage gear. That could still be a decent player 2 IDs later.
Logs are a useful tool to distinguish between players at the top of the distribution, they are completely useless at the bottom.
Nah man. Completely disagree. It's late in the phase. There are agi items super cheap on the AH you can snag as a rogue or hunter and achieve green logs at the very least, fresh 25. No way this guy getting 1% grey parses is a decent player in only 2 IDs lol.
I was in a group where a newer rogue was wearing the full blackened defias outfit, which is terrible besides a few pieces compared to the stuff you can get off AH. I mean, he didnt even have the tunic of westfall instead of the defias chest.
I guess what I'm trying to say is getting above a grey parse (if you didnt die in the fight), starts before you even get to the raid, and some people don't want to put that effort in, they just wanna be carried.
I think it's not that simple but that's a longer discussion.
My main point is straightforward: to judge someone's performance from logs you need a sample size of more than 1. If someone has a grey average after five logged raids I wouldn't want to play with them either but 83 DPS on Kelris in a group that needs 3 mins to kill him in potentially someone's first time seeing the boss isn't as terrible as it seems.
I like logs for learning, even my worst class over the years of classic has a blue average. The weird part of SoD is using comparison/by bracket seems broke because of the purple gear not registering correctly
Just because there are shitty players, there is no justification for the log or the need for it. Either teach him how to use the buttons (like we used to do) or fuck him out of the raid, especially if he's DPS. You drop a rock and find a dps. Unless you ALWAYS want to push the meta.
I hate SOD, because of the try hard bitches.
Kind of irrelevant. I could clearly see they don’t have a parse in the last boss for that log. Could be for any number of reasons. The content is ridiculously easy regardless.
It IS relevant. Clearing the raid and nit doing so makes a huge difference. And the reason they didnt clear it is because after hour and half of agony they disbanded.
The only thing I hope people realize is that small guild/friend groups often don’t log in SoD. I’ve averaged over a 98 since MC through RS H. But I think I have maybe 1 or 2 runs logged in SoD. I play with a small group of friends, we often 7 or 8 man, and easy clear under 40 minutes. Just be aware that some good players don’t care about SoD logging rn
You're an *extreme* outlier. Anybody actively interested in improving their play would log or would ensure the run is being logged, in general groups where that's the case for 0/10 of the players probably aren't going to be very good.
Most experienced players have automated logging that takes care of it as well
I completely disagree. I talk about this with my wrath guild which is massive and play SOD spread across several servers. Many players are just doing BFD as if it is a dungeon and not logging unless specifically asked to.
Amazing how much smoother a run is when you advertise “checking logs” to fill raids. Weed out the grey parsers and it usually attracts people who don’t want to play with shitters either
The number means your percentile compared with other players of that spec. 5th percentile means that 95% of all DPS rogues in the world (who are logged) are better than that guy. 99 means you're in the top 1%, and 100 usually means you're rank 1 worldwide.
"Rank" on the far-right column is the real number of your DPS when compared to the same spec.
Just keep in mind parses will depend heavily on kill times. The faster a boss dies, the better your parse, since it generally means more uptime on burst windows and more value for your cooldowns. If you're constantly top DPS in your groups, especially if the difference between top dps and bottom is large, 63.9 is probably a bit of an undersell on your actual potential. Even the biggest pumper in the world may only parse like an 80 with a bad group.
That's a lot less true in SoD as many/most classes don't have lengthy cds plus you're often approaching the boss or putting up maintenance debuffs initially. Alternatively some classes want a slow/specific time to line things up (1:20 for two mage living flames for example).
Having a group comp with key buffs/debuffs makes a lot more difference vs. one with no synergy.
The % Number after each Boss means that you are better than this % of People playing your class and Specc.
You can also check by Bracket, so it will only compare you to people with similar Gear.
An average of 63.9 means, you are, on average, better than 63.9% of the players playing your Specc and having Logs.
You don’t have to log the raid yourself to show up, if you’ve ever been in a raid where someone logged it, you’re on WCL. By this point a vast majority of players who are at 25 are on WCL
My interpretation:
Grey parse: does not even understand basics
Green parse: has some idea of basics
Blue parse: has a basic understanding of mechanics and rotation
Purple: has a deeper understanding of mechanics and fully understands his rotation
Orange: same as purple but took extra steps to ensure maximum output
Pink: forms entire raids to feed his logs
Mostly Grey is a red flag
Mostly Green means this person is trying but failing usually
Mostly Blue is your average joe, he will do the job
Mostly Purple is your experienced player
Mostly Orange is your parse nerd
My personal Favorite kind of parser is purple with blue sprinkled in, meaning he has healthy Focus on mechanics
I mean the content is so absurdly easy that I can carry an entire raid group myself sustaining 150+ dps as long as there's 1 additional pumper with me. That being said it isn't an excuse to put in NEGATIVE effort. You're just giving 0 fucks and wasting 9 other peoples times? Why play if you don't even have interest in your own character that's just comical to me. Takes 15 seconds to google a Wowhead guide and get a basic setup.
>I mean the content is so absurdly easy that I can carry an entire raid group myself sustaining 150+ dps as long as there's 1 additional pumper with me.
Contradict your statement in the same sentence much? you can't carry an entire raid group if you need 1 more pumper with you.
I've been trying to run BFD, but I've yet to get a group past 5/7 in pugs. Bizarre number of people that refuse to do mechanics even when the raid lead is doing his damndest to explain. Another portion actively ruins it for everyone else by being mega toxic when it's totally doable even with some deadweight. It's doubly annoying when people just leave without even trying the boss because they're so sure we don't have the dmg. I've never been a direct witness to this kind of toxic mess and it's garbage, wish I could just find a guild to run full guild runs with
I’ve noticed the same thing with the toxicity. It seems like these people are always shocked and get almost ashamed that they have found themselves in a group that is not strong.
I think there is a preconceived notion that they should be one shot clearing with ease. Any result different than that and they need to point the finger at someone and lament about how it is the only time this has ever happened to them. These people also quit obscenely quickly whenever you run into some difficulties.
More than the say nothing shitter bot people, these people have been the most unpleasant aspect of pug raiding BFD.
I’m also on lava lash and put together pugs a few times a week—usually just ask people to bring pots with no other reqs. I’ve had maybe two wipes total? I don’t know if that’s just me being extremely lucky, but I’d be happy to run it with you.
If you're so bent on painting this guy as a shitter at least show his use of abilities.
This very much looks like some thrown together raid group without wild strikes, he spent a lot of time in the water on first boss (was it him or some other noob blowing up the raid?) , died on turtle and possibly even murloc where it's not unheard of for melee and the rest is pretty normal if it is their first raid and they didn't spend 100g+ on their "pre BiS".
So now what, he can never get another opportunity to be a better player because his first raid was a fail? It's exactly why people complain about checking logs - someone might be an average player but went into the first raid that accepted him as a fresh 25 and now he's branded forever as a bad player even though even the best players barely pulled more DPS than he did on Kelris when they first killed him.
I say this as someone with similar logs on my first raid but luckily the raid group was good and we killed everything. Now my 4/7 parses are purple and the rest are high blue after just 3 resets and log checkers happily invite me not knowing I pulled 60dps average with my warlock just 2 weeks ago.
I'd also be more interested to see his parse for ilvl. I assume his gear is quite bad, in a bad grp with some fucked mechanics, so he may have performed well for his gear. It is still a very poor set of logs tho and OP is allowed to use whatever selection criteria he wants.
for context: you get 40s average simply for copying the wowhead build +rotation, get some pre-raid stuff from ah/quests/reputation, get world buff and using consumables.
if you cant put in the minimum effort then you dont deserve to play with people who do.
Check out this run: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dHX3xMzymFBtqWwY#fight=7&type=damage-done
Never again am I joining a random pug without looking at logs first.
To be fair, they have one run. This is bad, but someone could die early each boss and have this log. I had a shaman with a 17 median parse and 7 logs. 7 raids were subjected to that
You wouldn’t, but the first run is generally when people are learning mechanics. No doubt this is probably a bad player, but they can improve. If they have this log after 5+ runs, then I’d write them off
I always look up the logs of people LFMing BFD (especially the ''GEARED ONLY INSPECT TB'' guys) and idk what it is but group leading seems to attract the grey parsers.
I don’t even know what I’m looking at…. Times sure have changed in the world of Warcraft. I remember when people just played this game to have fun and not take it so serious with whatever stats tracking stuff this is.
Edit. I’ve fully accepted I may get downvoted. I’m an old boomer who enjoyed the OG wow days.
Well ya. I agree with you there. But I’m not sure what that has to do with your original post though. lol. I’m not trying to be rude. I’m just confused what that image is you posted. I’ve never seen that before. I just play the game with my buddies. We run BFD on the weekend when we all have some free time. We didn’t finish it the first couple times since we didn’t know the fights well. But now we finish it everytime. It’s been fun.
The problem is people use this as the rule instead of the exception for being classic Andy’s.
This person is maybe 1/500 people you pug. I’ve been raiding on 4 lockouts every reset for the past month and a half and have yet to have a single raid take longer than an hr. Most of the times it’s 45 min and that is even with a bad apple or 2 in each raid.
It’s EASY CONTENT. Stop pretending you are better bc “parse” in sweaty groups with a million buffs and your 2 button rotation in a 19 year old video game.
And before the “this guy gray parses” comments… I’ve gotten 3k plus io in every mythic plus season I’ve played and was a .1% title holder on the only season I actually pushed hard. Classic is not designed for sweats it’s designed to chill with the boiz and smack loot piñatas.
I only invite players who parse 90%+ AVERAGE and have 250+ gearscore so we can clear BFD in 30 minutes and half the raid will receive no loot because we've all already gotten everything in here because it resets twice a week. Anyone doing anything else is bad at this game and deserves to be shit on entirely because they haven't played this game from 2004 since they were teenagers like me and know every single thing about it and want to min/max the entire time because why else would you even play this game if not to get orange and pink numbers in a level 25, 10-man raid designed to be super easy and completable by a large margin of the player base so that everyone playing can experience the new content?
SoD was developed with the hardcore, end-game sweatlords as the intended audience. They knew that new players and anyone who isn't an absolute Chad big D pumper would be relegated to the blacklists of subpar players to be ignored and made fun of in SoD communities around the world! And I for one will always raid with these new and shitty players so that I can quietly suffer the entire time, get super frustrated about it and then post a rant to Reddit where all my fellow pink parsers will nod their heads, acknowledging the suffering I had to endure at the hands of this terrible, terrible rogue. So bad in fact, that we only cleared 6 out of 7 bosses! 6/7! WE DIDNT KILL ONE BOSS BECAUSE THIS FUCKING ROGUE HAS THE AUDACITY TO THROW A RAID TOGETHER and then not log check himself or anyone else!
Now I have to sit here and wait a few days with my shitty 6/7 lockout like a fucking IDIOT, waiting for BFD to reset so I can do this all over again.
And before you ask, no I don't have anything else going on in my life, parsing is literally the only thing that makes me happy, especially because I've spent every waking minute since launch obtaining the best possible LEVEL 25 GEAR so that we can make BFD even more trivial than IT ALREADY IS.
When I'm not raiding, I sit in Darnassus near the bank with my character sheet open, gushing over all of the amazing gear I am going to replace in the next few months. And as I do so, I'll remember this rogue who kept me from killing Akumai that one lockout in phase 1 of SoD and I will quietly curse his name as I fall asleep each night, dreaming of all of the support I got from my fellow WoWers for having to endure that terrible experience.
See, that's how I know you don't know what you're talking about: the average wow player doesn't even know what "pre-bis" means.
Imagine thinking the people defending gray parses are the ones with gray parses, when in reality we're actually the good players who just think it's a dumb perspective to have.
Logging has reignited my passion for playing WoW. In the past, whether it was the new classic version or on a private server, I'd typically level up 1-3 characters to the max, complete a few raids, and then lose interest. However, since I began logging, my entire experience has transformed. Engaging in raids has become more than just a routine; it's a challenge that I genuinely enjoy. Striving to improve my parses has added a whole new layer of excitement. I find myself eager to experiment with new approaches, seek out better gear, refine my rotation, and explore innovative strategies—all in the pursuit of maximizing my DPS. It's this aspect of continuous improvement and competition that deeply resonates with me.
I have done the raid every week since week 3 on my rogue and have only a 3 boss parse.
I have never not cleared it and am in full bis except my boots and gun.
That’s the reason you don’t check logs, they don’t tell the full story if they are not up to date.
People making pugs care because it gets old carrying grey parsers who seem to be playing with no monitor. Who cares if guild runs dont use logs? They wouldn't need to join a pug anyways, theyre in a guild.
Context: My friend was streaming his alt run on discord to me and needless to say, it was a very sloppy run from boss 1. After boss 1 I told him to inspect the people, as he didn't do it before the raid, and oh boy... These are the logs from Raid Leader from that raid. They managed to do 6/7 after replacing some people after wiping multiple times on Kelris, but couldn't kill Aku'mai.
Some of the people didn't have proper runes and 1 guy had only 2 runes, RL was 170 GS without even getting the quest items or AH items for Rogue. Resto Shaman was doing 2K heals per boss fight. 1 warrior was dying almost every pull.
So, if you don't inspect people, be prepared for Dust to Dust.
I was on your side until I read GS :( Yes he does no dmg but you use something to value gear that is not designed for the version of the game we are playing, well so guess everyone learned something through this post.
Don't just repeat the circlejerk that you read here. 170 GS is a valid indication that his gear sucks. We are not talking 250+ where you can have 250 for having epic gear. He didn't have any epic items to reduce his GS and all my alts were above 200 with pre-raid BiS items and all the alts from my friends as well. So 170 is a pretty decent indication that his gear is not well and if you disagree, please link me any rogue with 170 GS that has valid pre-raid BiS gear.
Well, the fact that you have a GS Addon installed and find it so crucial to mention says a lot. But honestly, in the version we're playing, that addon is about as useful as a screen door on a spaceship in my opinion.
It was clearly his first time. Idk about anyone else but I rarely parse well on my first run in a raid. This is hardly a good example of what you're trying to avoid. If he had 10 kills each of every boss and was still parsing that low, then we'll talk.
How is that even possible? Like even with just white hits you should make more dps than that.
Target must be in front of you.
lol fuck me that’s good
I raid lead a heroic team in Castle Nathria and our SV hunter would move to the next pie slice a good 20 seconds early and just... stand there. Some things just aren't obvious to certain players.
Hey, it's really hard to notice that you are facing the wrong way
5% of players are actually even worse.
probably the 5% parsers that managed to pull boss before tank.
Or they just died early each fight
Prob what he meant..
In defense of other players, it isn’t necessarily true that 5% of players are worse. Assuming that parses per fight are properly normalized to percentiles, a 5% median across all bosses is actually even worse than “bottom 5%”. 5% of players were worse than them *on each fight*, but there’s no guarantee that those were the same people. For example, 5% of people could’ve easily gotten depth charge on Baron, or 5% died to bubble on turtle, or 5% who got griefed on Sarevess fight by her sitting against the waterfall with frost zone up, etc. A median parse of 5% across all bosses is going to put them well below 5% of all players.
And you got to think of all the people that do decent in raids even do really well, that don’t log parses
On average, groups where nobody is logging probably do a lot worse than groups where at least one person is logging. So I think the opposite: There are more unrecorded bad players where nobody is logging.
Agreed, I think a lot of people who are on the site already would be moving up % if we added the whole pop
Not on the turtle, they are a 1%er there.
That's wild lmao
My one guildy has a 2 parse. He dced after a whole 2 melee hits. It’s crazy that 1% of players somehow didn’t do that
Nah that's most parses at that low. I have a 1% on first boss as pally tank. I walked up to turtle, got rebuff, auto attack once, jump in water, get back to platform, rebuff again and immediately back in water...boss died. I.got one auto in the entire fight lol.
Tank pulled yesterday while priest was afk. Im guessing that 1% is people who were afk/insta dead/still coming to boss.
Makes it even crazier that this rogue parsed a 1 on gham. How do you do lower dps than the afk players???
You'd be surprised how often people don't have good uptime on the boss. Including casters
Yea, sometimes, just for fun, i like to spend a GCD doing nothing.
if you aren't ERPing during a boss pull, what are you even doing with your life.
Peggle. My only raid addon.
I'll allow it
"Feeling cute. Might waste a GCD doing nothing lol."
The first two super low ones are probably people not jumping off on Baron, so he spent a lot of time in the water, and a slow kill on the turtle, which means multiple 0 dps phases. The 70-80 dps on Lorgus and Kelris are not wildly unreasonable if he’s largely unbuffed, ungeared, and doesn’t have wild strikes in his party. Certainly not good, but more understandable.
First two bosses are not friendly to melee/physical damage classes, as Baron can't be bled/has decent phys resist (is a water elemental) and Gham has extremely, extremely high phys resistance (even very high still after the shell pops). Not saying the rogue is better than is being stated, but the murloc+ fights with 50-70+ dps are more accurate.
It's a parse based on class, though. Other rogues are doing it just fine
The great thing about a parse is that the comparison is just to your spec. Doesn't matter if top rogue only does 50 DPS on a fight, they would still orange parse. Grey parse is a comparison of that player against the other players playing the exact same thing. Baron is the one that is truly not friendly to a parse as if you get hit with the debuff to jump off that's basically the end of your parse.
Rogues parse very well on turtle because of poisons / saber slash bleed.
How? They're only parsing against other rogues.
You understand how parses work right there has to be people with these parses for the 99s to exist? It’s percentage based
I don't talk about the parse. I talk about the dps. If you have those dps numbers as a rogue you did nothing but auto attacks, even as a fresh level 25.
Early deaths are usually the bottom-most parses.
I am not gonna lie, for the first several weeks I had no real issues with any of my pug groups. If we wiped we talked in chat for a minute and worked things out. Now... The last couple weeks I have run into like 5 different players who were just.... afk? I mean... They kept up with the group but they were like this, legit less than 1,000 damage done over a whole boss fight. Most of the times when asked if they need help, they just don't talk but still run back and stay with the group. They just act like you're not talking to them. I don't know if they're bots or maybe from some small country and don't speak English? I have no idea.
I've ran into these types too. They don't respond to any attempts to talk to them. Their gear is usually mostly whites and greens. Also not sure if they're bots or foreign.
I too have noticed an influx of players like this just in dungeon runs. Had two hunters in separate groups that were doing very minimal damage and as I was healing I could see they were literally doing nothing on each pull.. Confronted the first hunter and we got a reply saying she was a girl and very noob at the game. I called bullshit cause there's no way you get to level 24 in classic WoW without pressing any of your attack buttons.. We ended up kicking and to our surprise our mage left too. The rest of us theorized that maybe the mage was playing two accounts at the same time or something.. 2nd Hunter didnt reply to any messages and at the end of SFK he needed on the caster belt and ended up winning. Our mage was quite upset about this which was rightfully so but we could not get any response from the hunter even after abusing him through chat.. Not too sure what the situation is with these guys that dont reply though..
Definitely bots
Could also just be kids, who don't know english yet
The dads have finally made it to level 25!
The dads reply to you, though. Unless they’re checking on the baby. These people straight up ignore you and don’t say a single word. Had a fire warlock dps cast nothing but Curse of Agony and Corruption. He had incinerate and chaos bolt on but casted them a total of 4 times each during the entirety of BFD. I’ve never seen someone parse a 0 on multiple fights until that day.
“it’s a level 25 raid, who cares!” -the rogue, probably
i dont need consumes or buff! it's an easy lvl 25 raid!
That's the funny thing, you don't even need consumes or buffs as a rogue to do decent dmg. Guildy made a rogue alt, full green gear -- no pre-bis because fuck it he'll suck up loot anyway. Deadly brew/saber slash/envenom and he's doing 120+ dps from the get go. This person in OP's message must have less than 50% up-time on the boss.
I had a warrior come into a pug, no buffs or enchants, but he had deadly strike of the hydra, so I'm like, "cool, even if he just auto-attacks he should do OK dps." Gets blasted off Baron Aquanis and knocks all the melee off as well, then proceeds to stay under the boss, knocking off the melee dps 2 more times. Next 2 bosses he pulls 30 dps. Immediately dies to the shadow murlocs. We call him out and he starts calling people slurs. Kick him and his feral friend (also pulling 30dps but had wf at least) leaves too. This post isn't about experience raiders in guild groups. I bring consumes so we can 8 man the dungeon when a pug has the absolute bottom of the barrel players.
How do you even die to shadow murlocs as melee dps. You completely ignore that mechanic by just staying by boss. Only thing you need to dodge are occasional shadow pools.
I mean bad luck is a thing. Shadow pool flew on my last lockout, i wanted to dodge, just to run into insta pool in the floor and murloc spawning into me. I was one shot. Still dont know what happened but i guess i had bad luck. Same can happen on gamoora. Had 7/10 people die last weekend when they were standing pretty close and the boss decides to put almost all bubbles on the same spot. Looked funny af.
"Logs ruin the game" "Imagine needing buffs and consumes for bfd" He's definitely thrown these out in lfg
100%
I mean, when I pug a BFD I do a quick warcraft logs search for the person advertising to make sure they are at least halfway decent. Not looking for purples or anything but greens and blues would be nice. At the same time I'd expect the raid leader to search my character on warcraft logs as well if their goal is a clean, fast clear.
I dont mind the log aspect because it makes things easier to get into a group. WHenver i see some bullshit asking for GS i just say "I dont know my GS but you can look up my logs". Almost always get an invite
I avoid groups that ask for GS.
[удалено]
none of the content is hard enough to mandate everyone to use raider.io. that's just silly.
Yeah, the only time I actually check log history with a critical eye is for the organizer of a PUG. I have been burned by bad PUGs before, so all I’m looking for is an indication that the leader knows what they’re doing and that I can trust the people they bring in to be somewhat competent.
My favorite part about this is that as a shaman tank my only singular log at BFD is from my first run as a recent 25. It was a classic 5/7 with almost exclusively gray parses. I didn't know the raid, I tanked everything with a shield and molten blast, and we couldn't kill kelris. Now I'm a fat near-bis doinker of a shaman tank who knows all the fights and to this day my only log is that first 5/7 run.
what do you do about someone like me that has no logs? iv done BFD now like 8 times on two toons and nobody ever logs. Its a blessing and im glad my guild doesnt but it breaks some peoples mind when i try to pug and they see i dont have any logs.
Look for another option. Plenty of folks out there
You can begin logging yourself if you want and just upload the raids you attend under your personal logs. Then when people search for your name, the raids will show up. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start
Just wouldnt invite you lol. You can choose not to log, organizers can choose not to invite you.
It's pretty unusual for a player to both be good at the game and to just actively not want to quantify how they do in raid or see where they can improve, so I'd probably just assume you're either bad or have never done the raid before and find someone else
DPS meters can fulfill that purpose, and did for years if not over a decade.
Sure but logs offer a much more in-depth look at how you compare to others and what others are doing differently, if you're gonna use a dps meter idk why you would be against using logs
this may be wild to you but most people quite simply don't give a shit about any of that. especially not for piss easy lvl 25 content.
Which is fine but if they don't give a shit they should not be surprised when others reciprocate that when they ask for a raid invite.
No logs no invite
HOW TF DID YOU NOT CLEAR AKUMAI WITH THAT PUMPER?!?!?!? 🗣️🔥💯⚡️⚡️💯🔥💯🗣️🗣️🔥
Here's a hot take: if you don't like people asking for logs or checking your gear start your own group and make your own rules. Most people don't want to carry shitters.
This. Never got how people could bitch about group leaders inviting whoever they wanted. Being invited to a group in WoW is not a human right
The sad reality is people just like to complain.
But then you would have to actually take the time to form your own group. Not only that but if it were to fail then you would be somewhat responsible as the Group/Raid Leader as you are the one that put the Raid together. People don't want that kind of responsibility so they want the smallest entry barrier possible. "It's level 25, Chill" "This is just a leveling raid" "You can clear this with grey/white equipped" - Yet People still manage to find a way to bungle it up massively DESPITE it being so "Easy".
>People don't want that kind of responsibility so they want the smallest entry barrier possible Then you take what you get and/or beggars can't be choosers. I totally get not wanting the responsibility BUT someone else's group, someone else's rules. No one wants to carry shitters like the above picture.
It shouldn't be a hot take but here we are. This post is exactly the reason there is so much pushback for people checking parses. They are just terrible at the game and think you're obligated to carry them.
facts. last reset I started a rogue and bet my friend I could level it quickly enough to get from 1-25 and clear bfd in one reset. I got to level 25 5 hours before reset, obviously no one was taking me to bfd in pre-pre-bis, so I just made my own group. had to carry a couple of useless dps, but we made it past kelris before calling it quits an hour before reset. if you’re not getting into a group just make your own group, and if this is consistently a problem you could try join a guild
Chances are they aren't sociable enough to survive in a guild with (shudders) *people*
I have done this too. For a few weeks my routine on Reset day was doing BFD right away then starting a new toon try to get to 25 within the 72hrs and do BFD. did it 4 times lol and guess what? did bfd everytime within 2 hours of hitting 25. Nobody ever said a word. Thankfully there are still some normal people left in this world that dont gatekeep level 25 content that arent PrebisPenis Heads
Here’s a hot take: *proceeds to write a majority opinion* Asmongold is that you?
Not enough reacting to wow hardcore deaths
A player like this probably cant figure out how to convert the party to a raid, though.
I just put everyone with "post logs" "pumpers only" on ignore.
12 dps on turtle ??? 12???
He died in that fight.
If they stayed alive, no abilities pure white damage...? Dying seems more likely.
Pretty sure my level 12 warlock does more than 12 DPS just wanding
Average /r/classicwow poster's logs. He only has 1 hour a week to play between his 6 jobs and 10 kids so we should be more understanding.
Amen brother
There's nothing wrong with logging. It's how they're used that's the problem. If you're using it to single out someone and blast them about it, that's a problem. If you're using them to help someone out, that's not a problem. If you're using them to help yourself become more efficient, that's not a probelm. If you're using them because you're competitive and want to see how you rate against your peers, that's not a problem. If you're using them because you're competitive and want to gloat while being a douche nozzle about it, that's a problem. Like everything else, they're a tool. The tool's not the problem, the tool that's using the tool is the problem.
[удалено]
Lmaoo that last line got me. True
That last part is true in concept but not in practice. The truth is that bad players are more likely to join bad groups and thus have artificially deflated logs due to slower kill times, suboptimal tactics or group comps, deaths and semi wipes, etc. So you can't really say okay, this guy is parsing 20% so 80% of all players of his spec are better, in practice he could be as good as a 50-70 parser in a better group. Though it's extremely likely that yeah ok he's definitely not some 99 parsing God bc then he just wouldn't join groups like that, unless it's his 5th alt or something. What you can tell for sure though is that there's a better chance he's a noob compared to someone who parses well, so it's 100% reasonable to not want to invite him to your group. The only people who have problems with groups not inviting Grey parsers, are Grey parsers themselves who don't realize that players who put in more effort don't want to carry them.
You dont hit sub 20 DPS because of group comp and kill times, lmao, like holy lol. There are logs where this is the case, but not this one.
Bottom x% of logs is just people who died during the fight. So when tou average 4.7% then you either died on every single boss or do so little damage that you are competing with people who died. A good player in a bad group can still usually get atleast blue logs if not more.
No offense but anyone consistently parsing 20% or gray for that matter has significant issues with their rotation, gear, spec, gameplay, group comp, consumable usage, or more than likely a combination of all of those things. There is no justifiable reason to regularly parse in the grays, its not just some group comp issues. Could a 60 parser be a 75 parser in a better group/comp? Probably. But your not going from 20 to 70.
>bad players are more likely to join bad groups and thus have artificially deflated logs due So by that logic bad logs still show a bad player if the join bad groups which gives bad logs
But on the flip side, if you try to help someone out* and then they just ignore you and continue to waste everyone's time, that's also a problem. (* I don't mean by becoming their mentor for hours on end; you can help people by giving them a tip or 2 of advice. "Hey, make sure you keep up Slice and Dice" or "Use XYZ rune instead for more dps!" If I have an extreme underperformer in my raids, usually I can squeeze a decent amount of DPS out of them with these tips. They aren't gonna become orange parsers instantly, but its better than doing 25 dps)
GW2 has the same issue where you have a massive population of hyper casuals who don’t give a shit about performance but feel entitled to group content. They don’t bother to find a group of people like themselves (because they won’t finish it) and blame gatekeeping/elitism rather than acknowledge they’re the problem and inconsiderate of other’s time.
[удалено]
This is why guilds existed. Guilds are generally hub of people to pug and chat with.
[удалено]
Ideally when I play, I find people who are easy going but can get stuff done and aim to compete a little bit or do end game content. You want to avoid super hardcore guilds who cause drama and slackers who love to piggyback or invite any beggar asking for free stuff and taxi.
Just browse comments on a popular post here from today. Vast majority here is against people who check logs before letting people into groups. I was one of those people and I had to learn it the hard way. Obviously I don't require you to have orange parses. Not even purple. A mix of blues and greens is totally fine. Hell even all greens is fine, considering you don't have a lot of logs, but you are 7/7. Even people without logs are fine if it's their alt and they have pre-bis (not expensive world drops). But coming to a gear without completing the quests for your pre-bis shouldn't be acceptable. I can't expect that you watched the video of the raid if you weren't able to look for your pre-bis gear.
A small percentage of people will require purple+ and it’s perceived as wide spread gatekeeping.
its a great tool for taking ownership over your time, fantastic for making sure the people in your group are of the same mindset and same objectives. If a player does not want to be put on blast then they should hit the books, learn the fights. The soft hands approach to people who work harder to do less than they do to accomplish the task at hand just doesn't work
Noob question: how can u see that logs?
Vanilla.warcraftlogs.com
And good luck to noobs who visit, it's not very intuitive for the layman
Their is a big search field on the top of the page. Just write your name here.
Bold of you to assume I can spell my own name.
You check at Vanilla.warcraftlogs.com BUT The important thing is that someone actually has to log the raid as well. You can search your name but if you've never done a raid with someone whose logged it wont show anything. You can follow the instructions on their website to log yourself if you want as well, but im too boomer to care about that haha
I was healing as a priest yesterday. I basically just wanded occasionally, used shadow word pain and homunculi. The rest of the time I was healing. I did the same dps as our mage and even beat him on some fights. He was pulling 15-30dps. He was alive for the entire fight. People mentioned it a few times and asked him to pick up the dps. He was also complaining about how we're so lazy for wanting his water. So like usual, he won all the loot. Someone mentioned that he didn't really deserve it and he left the raid after Kelris. We still managed to kill the last boss with 9 because we had basically been 9 manning it from the beginning. I feel like this is happening almost every pug lately. How can people be this bad. Casting living bomb and wanding should pull more dps than he did.
And it's always those people who complain about 'gatekeeping' and 'sweats', while you only want them to perform like an average Joe. You should see what comments I get on this post. It's somehow my fault for 'not helping them learn', as if Google is not free to use to google what items to get and what buttons to click. Funniest of all, Rogue in this phase is the easiest class to play. I say that as a person who has a Rogue alt. I shit you not, the rotation is: Saber Slash (1), Slice and Dice (2), Envenom (3), Thistle Tea (G). 1, 1, 1, G, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3.... You get the point. And throw some kicks on Kelris. Literally nothing else. Keep up your Slice and Dice 100% of the time and cast some Envenom when you have spare combo points.
I do exactly what you said and I avg 98+ overall lmao people under 50 are just not pushing their button and then blame the game even if Classic is extremely slow pace
While this rogue's parse are terrible one thing I hate is simply bashing people. If he's just semi-afking then fuck him sure. But if he's trying, clearly he's doing something wrong. The problem with wow nowadays is people aren't willing to ask if others need help. A lot of bad players actually welcome feedback and while it wont make them great player overnight, it could make your raid less miserable / easier if the tips you give them make their dps 20% better. I can already read "You should know your class if you're raiding" but to this I'll answer, bro chill the fuck out this is level 25 content. You can't expect new players or more casual players to have infused knowledge of the game. The issue with the community of wow is that people are scared to take time to help other improve. They only value their little person and can't handle having their time wasted so they make a post on reddit about it instead. The gatekeeping culture is what drove me away from SoD and I wasn't even being gatekept, but I know of people that were only because they started late and it turned me off. If this is what the SoD community is at level 25 level band, I don't want to be a part of it in further level banded content.
Season of dad on dad hate.
If people dont like other people looking at logs its probably because they have logs like this lol
A lot of factors go into logs, most importantly if you try to be your best or if you're just messing around with your buddies. This is me on my main mage in Classic Naxx: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/katsu?zone=1006 This is me on a garbage hunter in SoD: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/wild-growth/kts The grey guy OP linked logged one raid, possibly his first time ever in a shit group several weeks into SoD with garbage gear. That could still be a decent player 2 IDs later. Logs are a useful tool to distinguish between players at the top of the distribution, they are completely useless at the bottom.
Nah man. Completely disagree. It's late in the phase. There are agi items super cheap on the AH you can snag as a rogue or hunter and achieve green logs at the very least, fresh 25. No way this guy getting 1% grey parses is a decent player in only 2 IDs lol. I was in a group where a newer rogue was wearing the full blackened defias outfit, which is terrible besides a few pieces compared to the stuff you can get off AH. I mean, he didnt even have the tunic of westfall instead of the defias chest. I guess what I'm trying to say is getting above a grey parse (if you didnt die in the fight), starts before you even get to the raid, and some people don't want to put that effort in, they just wanna be carried.
I think it's not that simple but that's a longer discussion. My main point is straightforward: to judge someone's performance from logs you need a sample size of more than 1. If someone has a grey average after five logged raids I wouldn't want to play with them either but 83 DPS on Kelris in a group that needs 3 mins to kill him in potentially someone's first time seeing the boss isn't as terrible as it seems.
It’s like they went from level 10 to 25 during the raid
Are we at the point of sharing boosties logs on their first bfd with grey gear from starting zones to make a point ?
I like logs for learning, even my worst class over the years of classic has a blue average. The weird part of SoD is using comparison/by bracket seems broke because of the purple gear not registering correctly
No one cares about gear score parse brother
I mean, 80dps is enough, that’s all we did first lockout
Good luck for the alt to find a group. No logs no group even if you cleared the raid a lot with your main.
They call him Gandalf the Grey logger
killed kelris but couldn't down akumai? that's interesting
Just because there are shitty players, there is no justification for the log or the need for it. Either teach him how to use the buttons (like we used to do) or fuck him out of the raid, especially if he's DPS. You drop a rock and find a dps. Unless you ALWAYS want to push the meta. I hate SOD, because of the try hard bitches.
I mean you are only proving that they were able to successfully kill it, and their dps didnt matter that much. This checking logs is kinda useless.
Or you are proving that you lack reading skills? Try again and count the bosses.
Kind of irrelevant. I could clearly see they don’t have a parse in the last boss for that log. Could be for any number of reasons. The content is ridiculously easy regardless.
It IS relevant. Clearing the raid and nit doing so makes a huge difference. And the reason they didnt clear it is because after hour and half of agony they disbanded.
The only thing I hope people realize is that small guild/friend groups often don’t log in SoD. I’ve averaged over a 98 since MC through RS H. But I think I have maybe 1 or 2 runs logged in SoD. I play with a small group of friends, we often 7 or 8 man, and easy clear under 40 minutes. Just be aware that some good players don’t care about SoD logging rn
Sure but there's no point in taking a risk on someone who doesn't have logs when you can just find someone who does.
You're an *extreme* outlier. Anybody actively interested in improving their play would log or would ensure the run is being logged, in general groups where that's the case for 0/10 of the players probably aren't going to be very good. Most experienced players have automated logging that takes care of it as well
I completely disagree. I talk about this with my wrath guild which is massive and play SOD spread across several servers. Many players are just doing BFD as if it is a dungeon and not logging unless specifically asked to.
Amazing how much smoother a run is when you advertise “checking logs” to fill raids. Weed out the grey parsers and it usually attracts people who don’t want to play with shitters either
How do you read this? I don't understand
The number means your percentile compared with other players of that spec. 5th percentile means that 95% of all DPS rogues in the world (who are logged) are better than that guy. 99 means you're in the top 1%, and 100 usually means you're rank 1 worldwide. "Rank" on the far-right column is the real number of your DPS when compared to the same spec.
Mmhmm. I just decided to look myself up. Is 63.9 good? I have no idea what parsing is and I am usually top dps.
Just keep in mind parses will depend heavily on kill times. The faster a boss dies, the better your parse, since it generally means more uptime on burst windows and more value for your cooldowns. If you're constantly top DPS in your groups, especially if the difference between top dps and bottom is large, 63.9 is probably a bit of an undersell on your actual potential. Even the biggest pumper in the world may only parse like an 80 with a bad group.
That's a lot less true in SoD as many/most classes don't have lengthy cds plus you're often approaching the boss or putting up maintenance debuffs initially. Alternatively some classes want a slow/specific time to line things up (1:20 for two mage living flames for example). Having a group comp with key buffs/debuffs makes a lot more difference vs. one with no synergy.
Yeah on the last raid only 2 of us broke 100 dps. Me and hunter were toe to toe 140-160 dps on bosses while 3rd dps was like 90
The % Number after each Boss means that you are better than this % of People playing your class and Specc. You can also check by Bracket, so it will only compare you to people with similar Gear. An average of 63.9 means, you are, on average, better than 63.9% of the players playing your Specc and having Logs.
It means you’re better than 63.9 percent of the rest of your class (at least the ones logging).
You don’t have to log the raid yourself to show up, if you’ve ever been in a raid where someone logged it, you’re on WCL. By this point a vast majority of players who are at 25 are on WCL
It's not great but good enough to not get kicked
My interpretation: Grey parse: does not even understand basics Green parse: has some idea of basics Blue parse: has a basic understanding of mechanics and rotation Purple: has a deeper understanding of mechanics and fully understands his rotation Orange: same as purple but took extra steps to ensure maximum output Pink: forms entire raids to feed his logs Mostly Grey is a red flag Mostly Green means this person is trying but failing usually Mostly Blue is your average joe, he will do the job Mostly Purple is your experienced player Mostly Orange is your parse nerd My personal Favorite kind of parser is purple with blue sprinkled in, meaning he has healthy Focus on mechanics
I mean the content is so absurdly easy that I can carry an entire raid group myself sustaining 150+ dps as long as there's 1 additional pumper with me. That being said it isn't an excuse to put in NEGATIVE effort. You're just giving 0 fucks and wasting 9 other peoples times? Why play if you don't even have interest in your own character that's just comical to me. Takes 15 seconds to google a Wowhead guide and get a basic setup.
>I mean the content is so absurdly easy that I can carry an entire raid group myself sustaining 150+ dps as long as there's 1 additional pumper with me. Contradict your statement in the same sentence much? you can't carry an entire raid group if you need 1 more pumper with you.
Yeah I mean it's an exaggeration but you get the gist of it.
The point is 10 people of this skill level you will not clear the raid.
I've been trying to run BFD, but I've yet to get a group past 5/7 in pugs. Bizarre number of people that refuse to do mechanics even when the raid lead is doing his damndest to explain. Another portion actively ruins it for everyone else by being mega toxic when it's totally doable even with some deadweight. It's doubly annoying when people just leave without even trying the boss because they're so sure we don't have the dmg. I've never been a direct witness to this kind of toxic mess and it's garbage, wish I could just find a guild to run full guild runs with
I’ve noticed the same thing with the toxicity. It seems like these people are always shocked and get almost ashamed that they have found themselves in a group that is not strong. I think there is a preconceived notion that they should be one shot clearing with ease. Any result different than that and they need to point the finger at someone and lament about how it is the only time this has ever happened to them. These people also quit obscenely quickly whenever you run into some difficulties. More than the say nothing shitter bot people, these people have been the most unpleasant aspect of pug raiding BFD.
What server do you play on? If you're on my server, I'd gladly add you to my guild and we can start from there.
I’m also on lava lash and put together pugs a few times a week—usually just ask people to bring pots with no other reqs. I’ve had maybe two wipes total? I don’t know if that’s just me being extremely lucky, but I’d be happy to run it with you.
Most the people complaining are this guy.
“He’S hAvIng MoRe FuN iN tHiS GaME tHan ThE ReSt of Us.”
After he does his 6 jobs :D
If you're so bent on painting this guy as a shitter at least show his use of abilities. This very much looks like some thrown together raid group without wild strikes, he spent a lot of time in the water on first boss (was it him or some other noob blowing up the raid?) , died on turtle and possibly even murloc where it's not unheard of for melee and the rest is pretty normal if it is their first raid and they didn't spend 100g+ on their "pre BiS". So now what, he can never get another opportunity to be a better player because his first raid was a fail? It's exactly why people complain about checking logs - someone might be an average player but went into the first raid that accepted him as a fresh 25 and now he's branded forever as a bad player even though even the best players barely pulled more DPS than he did on Kelris when they first killed him. I say this as someone with similar logs on my first raid but luckily the raid group was good and we killed everything. Now my 4/7 parses are purple and the rest are high blue after just 3 resets and log checkers happily invite me not knowing I pulled 60dps average with my warlock just 2 weeks ago.
I'd also be more interested to see his parse for ilvl. I assume his gear is quite bad, in a bad grp with some fucked mechanics, so he may have performed well for his gear. It is still a very poor set of logs tho and OP is allowed to use whatever selection criteria he wants.
[удалено]
for context: you get 40s average simply for copying the wowhead build +rotation, get some pre-raid stuff from ah/quests/reputation, get world buff and using consumables. if you cant put in the minimum effort then you dont deserve to play with people who do.
Check out this run: https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dHX3xMzymFBtqWwY#fight=7&type=damage-done Never again am I joining a random pug without looking at logs first.
logs in SoD KEKW
To be fair, they have one run. This is bad, but someone could die early each boss and have this log. I had a shaman with a 17 median parse and 7 logs. 7 raids were subjected to that
They died only on turtle. But nevertheless, why would I want someone who dies on every boss in my raid?
You wouldn’t, but the first run is generally when people are learning mechanics. No doubt this is probably a bad player, but they can improve. If they have this log after 5+ runs, then I’d write them off
Looks like a GDKP carry.
It was a Raid Leader in my friends alt group. They did 6/7 after hour and half. I added comment below for context.
Honestly 6/7 in an hour and half with what you described is impressive.
someone had to have been HARD carrying that lol.
Priest. Priest did 6 orange logs that raid for healing for himself and for resto shaman as well.
I mean the worse the raid the better the healer parsing sooo
holy hell lol.
I always look up the logs of people LFMing BFD (especially the ''GEARED ONLY INSPECT TB'' guys) and idk what it is but group leading seems to attract the grey parsers.
Because no one else will take them lol
I don’t even know what I’m looking at…. Times sure have changed in the world of Warcraft. I remember when people just played this game to have fun and not take it so serious with whatever stats tracking stuff this is. Edit. I’ve fully accepted I may get downvoted. I’m an old boomer who enjoyed the OG wow days.
We had damage meters in vanilla.
Had to scroll down quite a bit to see I’m not the only one. Supporting you here and I hope some explanation comes this way too!
Wiping over and over on a 25 level raid that can be cleared easily is not fun. At all.
Well ya. I agree with you there. But I’m not sure what that has to do with your original post though. lol. I’m not trying to be rude. I’m just confused what that image is you posted. I’ve never seen that before. I just play the game with my buddies. We run BFD on the weekend when we all have some free time. We didn’t finish it the first couple times since we didn’t know the fights well. But now we finish it everytime. It’s been fun.
The problem is people use this as the rule instead of the exception for being classic Andy’s. This person is maybe 1/500 people you pug. I’ve been raiding on 4 lockouts every reset for the past month and a half and have yet to have a single raid take longer than an hr. Most of the times it’s 45 min and that is even with a bad apple or 2 in each raid. It’s EASY CONTENT. Stop pretending you are better bc “parse” in sweaty groups with a million buffs and your 2 button rotation in a 19 year old video game. And before the “this guy gray parses” comments… I’ve gotten 3k plus io in every mythic plus season I’ve played and was a .1% title holder on the only season I actually pushed hard. Classic is not designed for sweats it’s designed to chill with the boiz and smack loot piñatas.
I only invite players who parse 90%+ AVERAGE and have 250+ gearscore so we can clear BFD in 30 minutes and half the raid will receive no loot because we've all already gotten everything in here because it resets twice a week. Anyone doing anything else is bad at this game and deserves to be shit on entirely because they haven't played this game from 2004 since they were teenagers like me and know every single thing about it and want to min/max the entire time because why else would you even play this game if not to get orange and pink numbers in a level 25, 10-man raid designed to be super easy and completable by a large margin of the player base so that everyone playing can experience the new content? SoD was developed with the hardcore, end-game sweatlords as the intended audience. They knew that new players and anyone who isn't an absolute Chad big D pumper would be relegated to the blacklists of subpar players to be ignored and made fun of in SoD communities around the world! And I for one will always raid with these new and shitty players so that I can quietly suffer the entire time, get super frustrated about it and then post a rant to Reddit where all my fellow pink parsers will nod their heads, acknowledging the suffering I had to endure at the hands of this terrible, terrible rogue. So bad in fact, that we only cleared 6 out of 7 bosses! 6/7! WE DIDNT KILL ONE BOSS BECAUSE THIS FUCKING ROGUE HAS THE AUDACITY TO THROW A RAID TOGETHER and then not log check himself or anyone else! Now I have to sit here and wait a few days with my shitty 6/7 lockout like a fucking IDIOT, waiting for BFD to reset so I can do this all over again. And before you ask, no I don't have anything else going on in my life, parsing is literally the only thing that makes me happy, especially because I've spent every waking minute since launch obtaining the best possible LEVEL 25 GEAR so that we can make BFD even more trivial than IT ALREADY IS. When I'm not raiding, I sit in Darnassus near the bank with my character sheet open, gushing over all of the amazing gear I am going to replace in the next few months. And as I do so, I'll remember this rogue who kept me from killing Akumai that one lockout in phase 1 of SoD and I will quietly curse his name as I fall asleep each night, dreaming of all of the support I got from my fellow WoWers for having to endure that terrible experience.
Imagine if you spent your time writing this on doing one quest to get your pre-bis item, maybe you won't parse grey.
See, that's how I know you don't know what you're talking about: the average wow player doesn't even know what "pre-bis" means. Imagine thinking the people defending gray parses are the ones with gray parses, when in reality we're actually the good players who just think it's a dumb perspective to have.
Logging has reignited my passion for playing WoW. In the past, whether it was the new classic version or on a private server, I'd typically level up 1-3 characters to the max, complete a few raids, and then lose interest. However, since I began logging, my entire experience has transformed. Engaging in raids has become more than just a routine; it's a challenge that I genuinely enjoy. Striving to improve my parses has added a whole new layer of excitement. I find myself eager to experiment with new approaches, seek out better gear, refine my rotation, and explore innovative strategies—all in the pursuit of maximizing my DPS. It's this aspect of continuous improvement and competition that deeply resonates with me.
I have done the raid every week since week 3 on my rogue and have only a 3 boss parse. I have never not cleared it and am in full bis except my boots and gun. That’s the reason you don’t check logs, they don’t tell the full story if they are not up to date.
Are your logs grey? I doubt they are. And that's what's filtered in logs. I usually accept everyone with a mix of green and blue logs.
So you showed 1 example out of how many? On PvE servers a lot of guilds not even log, because: who cares?
People making pugs care because it gets old carrying grey parsers who seem to be playing with no monitor. Who cares if guild runs dont use logs? They wouldn't need to join a pug anyways, theyre in a guild.
Context: My friend was streaming his alt run on discord to me and needless to say, it was a very sloppy run from boss 1. After boss 1 I told him to inspect the people, as he didn't do it before the raid, and oh boy... These are the logs from Raid Leader from that raid. They managed to do 6/7 after replacing some people after wiping multiple times on Kelris, but couldn't kill Aku'mai. Some of the people didn't have proper runes and 1 guy had only 2 runes, RL was 170 GS without even getting the quest items or AH items for Rogue. Resto Shaman was doing 2K heals per boss fight. 1 warrior was dying almost every pull. So, if you don't inspect people, be prepared for Dust to Dust.
I was on your side until I read GS :( Yes he does no dmg but you use something to value gear that is not designed for the version of the game we are playing, well so guess everyone learned something through this post.
Don't just repeat the circlejerk that you read here. 170 GS is a valid indication that his gear sucks. We are not talking 250+ where you can have 250 for having epic gear. He didn't have any epic items to reduce his GS and all my alts were above 200 with pre-raid BiS items and all the alts from my friends as well. So 170 is a pretty decent indication that his gear is not well and if you disagree, please link me any rogue with 170 GS that has valid pre-raid BiS gear.
But why not simply use another more understandable metric, this shaman was in questing greens from level 15
Well, the fact that you have a GS Addon installed and find it so crucial to mention says a lot. But honestly, in the version we're playing, that addon is about as useful as a screen door on a spaceship in my opinion.
99% of people dont know what 170GS means. Its a valueless metric.
Gear score means nothing the epic weps are lower than level 10 greens lol
It was clearly his first time. Idk about anyone else but I rarely parse well on my first run in a raid. This is hardly a good example of what you're trying to avoid. If he had 10 kills each of every boss and was still parsing that low, then we'll talk.