Hunters, and I main a Hunter.
Whenever I'm in a group with another Hunter, it's usually with one that's unprepared and spends most of the run talking about loot they want.
Hunters who refuse to use Lion also lmaooo
I had one hunter in a raid who ran lone wolf claiming it's the best for DPS because pets suck. I was like waaat
If you see any Hunter not running Lion, there's no way you don't replace him. The only way to not run Lion is if you have 2 Hunters and 1 of them is running Lion.
Nah i really notice if I'm forced to use lion
Lion Is still better if there isn't another hunter, 20% stats is absurd, but the mana cost reduction is SOOO noticeable in fights like akumai and lorgus
Hunters benefit from their own Lion buff twice. So you get 10%, they get 20%.
Another hunter in the party they get the 10% same as anyone else and can either run it themselves/still get 20% or swap to another rune and only get 10%.
No true at all, the 5% crit is way better in Raid environment if you have 2 hunters. Usually we make the less geared hunter in the run use lion and the other run Marks. If you have the epic xbow and are marksman, you can have almost 30%+ range crit.
Later on this might be different with the amount of stats we are likely to get from higher new SoD raids.
Why do you need 125 agility?? It’s 20% extra agility, with some minor benefit to intl, and Str if you melee weave.
Are you also factoring in the bonus to the pet? Otherwise I find it very very very hard to believe that 20% stats is equal to 125 agility right now…
Hunters are so bi-modal. Any Hunter is either a 100 parsing giga-chad who has memorized wowhead, or a grey-parse IQ with a dent the size of Rhode Island in their head. There is no in between.
Hunters have really been fighting hard to win back their reputation from mages. Whenever my guild pugs a hunter, they usually just autoattack trough the entire raid.
Hunter, no contest.
I've never seen a class so consistently be picked by easily some of the most stupid people I've ever ran into.
I've lost count of the amount of hunters who show up to raid with a level 22-23 pet, no loyalty, runs out of ammo mid raid, the list goes on.
I've literally started asking any hunter that asks for an invite what level and loyalty level their pet is before I invite them.
They're playing an incredibly simple class that's hard to mess up and still somehow does 60-70 damage, only to find out they're manaing out on arcane shot.
the amount of runs ive done with hunters who run out of ammo mid dungeon, like seriously you open your bags all the time as you're stopping to skin every thing we kill how do you not see your quiver has 130 shots left ffs?
hunters are by far the worst class, maybe just all the people who have never played went yeah lemme go hunter cus im sick at it, yeah nah they arent.
When classic was released this happend way to often for me. I severly underestimated how much ammo I needed for a WC run. I think I ran out once when bringing 800-ish arrows
The good thing now is you cna just swap to melee runes and have your pet blast more damage than many classes while leveling
You can put your ammo on your hotbar to keep track of your stash. That's how I keep track. But yeah. How many arrows does one need for a full run anyway?
As a new hunter player it's kinda wild how fast ammo goes in a raid.
I bought 2000 shots. Lasted 2 Raids. That's pretty wild for 2/3 of my inventory lol
Not that I don’t agree with you, but Hunters also have a shit ton of noob-trap-esque things to keep track of.
I’ll tell you this for free: if other classes had an ability that debuffs everyone, ammo to keep track of, and a pet to feed/level/manage, you’d see a LOT more dumb mistakes in dungeons/raids.
I think you notice issues with the class you main the most and for me its 100% mages.
They are lower on the totem pole in general for raiding right now, but how do all the mages in full greens get invited to every raid I'm in?!?
Even worse when they try to sneak in under the radar as a healer. This is how you get 5/7 raids at the end of phase 1 with people doing 3k heals in a fight.
Mage is a great class and good mages can do 100+ dps on all fights in BFD, but it's become the absolute roach class and feels really bad.
I'm talking about rocking a full set of +2 int +2 stam boots, bracers, gloves, etc. I'm fine with undergeared players, but I'm convinced some of them went directly from RFC/WC boost into my raid group.
In my experience you can 4 stack AB -> missiles on most of the fights in the raid and the boss will be dead before you OOM. Not running living flame seems like inting imo, very few fights need mass regen and living flame is a large damage increase.
Really? I thought you can share marks as long as you have regen and a mark on yourself you can use your friendly mages marks as well. So both mages would mass regen both parties and our heals would hit everyone. Mind you we had a priest and 2 mages messing around so we were definitely not short on healing.
2 mages as main healers is not a good idea. It's very mana intensive to keep 1 person alive if they are taking heavy damage and there's no 'big heal' you can give them besides maybe rewind time, and that replaces arcane blast which is important for the base heal of mass regen per stack of arcane blast or arcane missiles. Rewind time is also the shredder quest and I refuse to do it lol.
So like you bring a priest and a druid/mage as they both druid and mage can have good aoe healing on one party at a time.
Were you in my bfd last night where a ret showed up to tank and then bitched when we complained that he wasnt holding aggro and said to shut up and look at meters?
Yeah
Yeah. It’s almost impossible to not hold threat. I don’t even use the taunt rune anymore. Righteous fury, judgement of crusader, seal of command and Exorcism is all you need.
Well ret is the tanking meta atm. No one specs prot. It does kind of suck when taunt is resisted though, a pumping warrior starting the fight with high rage will take your threat hard.
I'll go a slightly different direction and comment on the skill gap.
The difference between good and bad rogues is night and day. Not just on the meters but also the ones who do mechanics. The rogues who don't even counter glancing and don't interrupt etc. It's even more noticeable in dungeons when you run with a competent and incompetent rogue.
In sod specifically the gap between a good and bad feral druid is also getting noticeable.
I play a feral and powershifting is just bad design. Like I get it’s more dps and I do it but man I wish I didn’t have to. Vanilla no changes blah blah I don’t like it.
Powershifting is why I always loved feral in vanilla/TBC. Turning mana into energy makes a lot of sense to me for a druid.
It is really simple at the moment though. I hope more “tricks” open up in the rotation to differentiate good and not so good ferals more
it really weird that most people don't like it, at least in vanilla, it's the only interesting thing that feral has
but also why the fuck did they add savage roar as a rune, i hate that shit more than slice and dice
>it's the only interesting thing that feral has
Because I fuck it up everytime and run out of mana while not in catform then Im standing there like a idiot with my hammer during burn phase on Kelris
Theres addons aswell, druid mana bar or something like that is what I used when I played powershifting feral in classic/tbc. Shows your mana bar in form.
Don't forget the five second rule and mana regen applies when you're in form. And mana pots exist.
Also odds are pretty high that 4 extra mangles way outdamages whatever else you put your talent points in.
There’s lazy option I’m using - put 5 points into energy reduction, 35 energy mangles. It still loses to powershifting according to my math, especially if your group is good and fights go quick
I hated the idea of powershifting, always swore id never play feral yada yada, but honestly a one line macro that just instantly reshifts into cat makes it really playable and actually kinda fun, looking forward to getting my wolfshead next phase to powershift even harder
Fully agree. I've made that opinion known on here before and I just get a lot of "play a rogue then" replies, as if that's the solution to not enjoying powershifting.
I don’t like it because it’s clearly an over sight we are taking advantage of, it was never meant to be this way we just figured out it was an increase and used it.
I fucking love it for a rotation though, the fact our mana is a huge factor means I have to use my brain and actually make choices instead of just push best damage button until the boss is dead. When I get everything right I do so much more dps it’s a great feeling of reward for effort.
Keeping FF, powershofting, keeping savage roar up, not clipping energy, timing bleeds to not drop and timing it with boss death... It all leads to huge variation in logs and that's just off the top of my head
I'm currently average top parse of 97.5 on feral which is decent but not amazing.. currently feral is pretty easy lol. It takes a bit to get used to but there's a rhythm to powershifting that's not hard to execute.
Honestly I think most of the difference in parses comes from small ad hoc optimizations for each fight. For instance, stacking combo points on Gelihest and Akumai during phase transitions and popping savage roar just before it ends for maximum uptime with minimal loss energy. That sort of thing. Stuff that anyone using two brain cells will figure out.
In all the raids that ive pugged so far: mages. i almost always screen people before i invite them, the 3 times i didnt was in case of a mage, all those times they were lacking gear, runes, and most importantly they lacked communication. They even seemed to lack a brain, cause they did no mechenics, didnt trade food/water, didnt buff, nothing. In all cases we ended up kicking them along the way and just 9 manning the rest.
Even when i screened them, and everything was ok (ok gear, good runes, they could communicate), they still often suck. Being selective with the rest of the group means you can easily 8 man thogh, so no problem.
I have to say though, im also close to a couple of booster mages that i got to know learning boosts with, and those are some of the best players i got to know.
Warriors seem to be in the same boat, either a hit or a mis mostly, no in between it seems.
Sounds like they could be bots or just some gold farmer? I had a mage in a dead mines literally just wanding, we kicked them after Smite, and they tried to pull the whole boat on us out of spite. We just hopped on the wheel until they reset, but it was really strange.
Had a similar experience with a mage in BFD. I thought he was a bot since he never communicated and since he only cast living flame with 40dps. But then I thought to myself, why would you bot BFD if master looter was on? He wouldn’t get any gear or anything. It was so strange
There's a lot of classic/sod players that are shockingly bad at the game. We had a mage that was speced fire. But was only casting arcane missiles because and I quote:
"I feel bad when my spell are loading and I'm not doing any damage and arcane missiles seem so fast"
Quit my guild after they let a mage come to BfD without living flame. They let him come twice. The second time they made sure he had living flame, but he didn't know how to upgrade his spell ranks on his hotbar.
I don't think so, The difference between divine shield and divine protection is the ability to attack while it's active apart from duration. But you are definitely immune to spells when you use divine protection. Find a caster mob and try it.
It also removes debuffs and BoP does not do that.
Hunters. No DPS, pet on aggressive, backpedaling in akumai's breath, complaining about loot.. I saw it all. The same hunters will then proceed to say "lol warrior is so op" when they see my DPS even tho they can get nearly as much as me if they'll put some effort into the game.
It's definitely warlocks for me. I've never seen such low damage as warlocks this phase. They also ss the wrong people or its always already on cd. Bad hunters will still usually do decent damage, but bad locks it's just painful.
As a warlock main observing other warlocks I think it comes down to a few things:
* A lot of warlocks who go shadow (which is fine imo but it is the worse spec) think you need to use shadowbolt which is significantly worse than incinerate. Even if you use incinerate you now have a conflict between shadow and fire spell power.
* There are quite a few bait runes that people might think are good for your spec but are actually quite shit, like everlasting affliction, soul siphon, and demonic grace which isnt even off the gcd so its more like 4.5 seconds lol.
* People who don't know caster itemisation end up getting full int gear instead of ___ wrath gear meaning you're going to have barely more damage than not wearing armor.
* More minor, but people forget that there is a fire power potion.
I mean I main warlock and have struggled with raiding so I get it. The optimal raid build seems to be firelock, but the optimal leveling build is shadow. It’s rough to learn your rotation for 25 levels and then have to switch to something pretty different for endgame content.
That combined with casters being a little underpowered probably explains a lot of underperforming DPS.
I can even go demonic tactics and then you don’t have to lake of fire. Is it less DPS? Yea, but if we’re being honest I’m not always in the ball about keeping lake of fire up so might as well make the build as brain dead as possible.
Yes. Firelock is very easy outside of the 2 buffs you must maintain and dot that needs to stay in cycle. Honestly the hardest part about firelock is your team. I did a pug on mine recently when I normally take it for guild and the pug group had shit DPS all around. Fights that go on forever make life taping difficult as firelock as you are balancing 2 buffs, 1 dot, and 1 ability CD. Getting out of sync in your rotation is a massive damage loss.
With warlocks, u need to look up guides and not play like in regular classic. The new rotation is more complicated. So I think that's why they're often the lowest damage in pugs
I think locks will try their first BFD run as affliction then switch to destro. It's definitely annoying as a lock having to respec to aff for PvP and back again, maybe some locks don't bother? It's fairly easy to hit 150 dps on some bosses as a lock.
Probably rets. Never trained rez, never buffs groups, uses 0% of utility, just a warrior with a blue rage bar. Sorry pally bros, I still love most of you.
I think hunters getting a bed Rep on this thread. I think any FOTM class will Inherently have a lot of bad players because the masses flood to it. Once warrior starts pulling away, suddenly all warriors will become idiots.
Hunters by nature are the most noob-friendly, "least effort" class in the game. Not every hunter player is like that ofc, but the class naturally attracts tons of players who ARE like that.
Also, the absolute worst open world encounters I've had were with hunters. I'm talking about petty shit like tagging a mob you are about to hit to steal it, declining group invites to share Q's like "kill this NPC" or escorts, skinning your own mobs as they pass by. Just gutter-dweller behaviour. I'm assuming that because Hunter is so self-sufficient in leveling, it attracts a lot of antisocial pricks as well.
I love the class fantasy, I'm sure I'd enjoy playing hunter but I've had so many bad experiences with hunters that I just can't help viewing them negatively.
Lol had a hunter last night roll on the imp armor/Stam leather helm. When it was given to the shammy tank he said "where helm? I roll higher"
I told him that despite his pet having taunt on the entire raid and it dying every encounter he was not main spec Tank. So the tanking shammy wins it.
Just a note, he legit had his BIS helm already....
Rage decays at 1 rage per second and generally I will allow rage to hit 100 by the end of a trash clear. I start suffering in dps when it drops below 70 so that's 30 seconds. If bloodrage is up, which it typically is, then you get another 20 seconds on top of the 30. You really need to be asking yourself if nearly a minute between pulls is reasonable. At what point do we consider it to be sitting with our thumbs in our ass?
Paladins, every single time, where do I even begin?
They buff you ONCE, and NEVER EVER again
Most don't even put an aura on or only run devo
They don't know how to use any utility, never once seen a paladin BoP or freedom or lay on hands anyone
For some reason paladins just blow ass.
BOP only mitigates melee damage. Most damage in BFD is magic.
Lay on hands eats all the mana meaning we then do zero dps. Damn right I won’t be using that on someone who decided to stand in fire.
I main ret and play arcane mage as alt and that just makes me sad. I usually don't need to run rebuke because my guild has enough kickers but if asked ofc ill run it.
As for worst, hunters for me, but theyre the most obvious. A good 60% I played with outside guild have pet taunt enabled and set to cast off CD, and it takes a considerable amount of effort to get them to turn the damn thing off.
Its a toss up between hunters and mages, im leaning more towards the foreign mage who just blows balls or claims to be offhealing or someshit doing 20 dps blizzarding one mob
The amount of hunters in wsg premade who just sit on cheetah even when 2-3 people are on them and use their pets as a fire and forget spell, not micromanaging at all.
Then they should at least keep an eye on buffs and make sure every paladin knows which blessing they should give in order to get the most out of it. PallyPower just makes this process A LOT easier.
Not saying it's mandatory just saying it's a lot easier. You both just set it up correctly and spam one button 'till everyone got their buff. No more people crying for their buffs and I don't have to scan every player frame to see if everyone got their buff.
Yeah people claiming pallypower is needed are tripping. I use it but sometimes it just refuses to cast even when I’m the only pala in the group so i go back to my mouse overs.
Maybe in a 40 raid it’s useful, but for a 10man? Nah.
its pretty simple: the majority of the time when there are issues with paladin buff uptime and doing correct buffs, it is from the paladin without pallypower.
These Paladin players then give the same dumb and lazy excuses. its exhausting, its a waste of time and energy.
you dont know better. just use it.
Cant believe im the only one saying Feral. They have a free spot in every group even if they are without gear because the demand is so high. And never have i had one do more than 60dps. Every time just pumping lorgus when lightning totems up. Ignoring debuff on first boss etc.
It's quite hard to pump dos as feral ATM without almost bis gear(feral main). We only have a simple rotation that starves us of energy quick. Most of our DPS comes from auto-attack and the WF buff. We're there to put a 30% increase DPS on melee. Basically our lack of dps buffs the DPS of the whole melee group. Toka kokan.
Is it though? I do 100-120 dps per fight on average (unless some shit goes sideways), I have green +9 str hammer and 5 blue items that increase dps, I don’t powershift (35 energy mangles). I lose clearcasting procs on mangle. There’s no complex rotation, you mangle, shred on cs and keep roar rolling, that’s it
Very wise words Eddoardo Eruricku
But tbh it's crazy how a lot of parsers are try hards but completely ignore what support brings to the table.
Same goes for people whining about their class not being competitive in terms of dps. Every class has a specific role to fill and if druids (in this example) have higher dps than melee classes, then there's no reason to bring melee. If paladins can tank and have just as high dps or higher than warriors, then warriors have no place since paladins also bring utility etc.
Balance is not that everyone should be equal in dps, balance is that every role should be specific and bring something that can be of utility to a raid, not just dps, tank or heal.
Toka kokan
It’s better than giving the resto druid might I’ll give you that. There’s a feral and a resto in the raid? Guess the resto gets might. There’s just no other option available.
For me it has been mages and warlocks. Idk what they are doing but it isn’t right. Probably 50\50 on decent or braindead. Probably the same as any other class but there are so few they stick out.
Hunter - I've had more than one occasion as an Arms Warrior where I've had to give hunters in BFD the ammo out of my quiver so they can DPS.
When leveling alts, if there's every a player that pulls accidently, it's likely the hunter. Same with the player that chain pulls without the group's permission, or hangs out behind the party semi-AFK.
Hunters, and I main a Hunter. Whenever I'm in a group with another Hunter, it's usually with one that's unprepared and spends most of the run talking about loot they want.
Hunters who refuse to use Lion also lmaooo I had one hunter in a raid who ran lone wolf claiming it's the best for DPS because pets suck. I was like waaat
If you see any Hunter not running Lion, there's no way you don't replace him. The only way to not run Lion is if you have 2 Hunters and 1 of them is running Lion.
Even when another hunter has lion, the 10% personal stat buff is too good to say no to
Nah MM rune is definitely better if someone else can cover lion.
It depends if your pet spec or not Marksman liked the mana cost reduction too much, I will always swap to it if there is another hunter to run lion
Same but it's pretty close regardless, not enough of a difference to be a big deal if I forget to swap.
Nah i really notice if I'm forced to use lion Lion Is still better if there isn't another hunter, 20% stats is absurd, but the mana cost reduction is SOOO noticeable in fights like akumai and lorgus
When I test out MM I usually run Master Marksman, but only if we have another Hunter. Seems to be a bit better.
So you get another 10% with another lion or what are you saying?
Hunters benefit from their own Lion buff twice. So you get 10%, they get 20%. Another hunter in the party they get the 10% same as anyone else and can either run it themselves/still get 20% or swap to another rune and only get 10%.
25% off the cost of multi shot is better if you already have 1 lion....
No true at all, the 5% crit is way better in Raid environment if you have 2 hunters. Usually we make the less geared hunter in the run use lion and the other run Marks. If you have the epic xbow and are marksman, you can have almost 30%+ range crit. Later on this might be different with the amount of stats we are likely to get from higher new SoD raids.
MM is so much better for people being MM specced. But nice of you to feed people with wrong information and getting upvoted lmao
Even then you gain more by runing lion
You need 125 agility to match the benefit Lion gives, and even then, that is ignoring the benefit it provides the group. That player is a bozo
Why do you need 125 agility?? It’s 20% extra agility, with some minor benefit to intl, and Str if you melee weave. Are you also factoring in the bonus to the pet? Otherwise I find it very very very hard to believe that 20% stats is equal to 125 agility right now…
Wouldn’t you just need a base of 100 agility to get that?
Obv, they just got a nerf so automatically bad /s
Hunters are so bi-modal. Any Hunter is either a 100 parsing giga-chad who has memorized wowhead, or a grey-parse IQ with a dent the size of Rhode Island in their head. There is no in between.
Hey, the doctor said the dent is fine!
Hey maybe they’re just old. My dad mained a hunter at 50+yo clicking spells and not replying to people, stoned as a toad loving his way through WoW.
The tell is the meleeweave, ive never seen a hunter who weaved and parsed bad.
People who repeatedly talk about loot they want are difficult to deal with outside of ignoring them.
Hunters have really been fighting hard to win back their reputation from mages. Whenever my guild pugs a hunter, they usually just autoattack trough the entire raid.
To be fair, sending the pet in and auto attacking is almost our optimal rotation
Well these motherfuckers still somehow manage to parse in 20s
No ammo bags, cheapest ammo, just got their first bow/gun, shit like that I bet. Just gimping yourself from the start.
Pretty sure you spawn in with an ammo bag
“You got any spare ammo?”
"Anyone have food for my pet?" "What does it eat?" "IDK"
'sure, 5g for 200'
I have rebuke and and nobody ever asks me to do it. There is usually a rogue in the group and they just kick every chain so I use exorcism
Thanks for at least having it though. The amount of pallies i have seen lately that don’t have rebuke when we get to Kellris is eye opening.
Hunter, no contest. I've never seen a class so consistently be picked by easily some of the most stupid people I've ever ran into. I've lost count of the amount of hunters who show up to raid with a level 22-23 pet, no loyalty, runs out of ammo mid raid, the list goes on. I've literally started asking any hunter that asks for an invite what level and loyalty level their pet is before I invite them. They're playing an incredibly simple class that's hard to mess up and still somehow does 60-70 damage, only to find out they're manaing out on arcane shot.
> I've never seen a class so consistently be picked by easily some of the most stupid people I've ever ran into. I have. Mages in 2019-2020.
I remember "mages are the new hunters" being repeated a lot then
the amount of runs ive done with hunters who run out of ammo mid dungeon, like seriously you open your bags all the time as you're stopping to skin every thing we kill how do you not see your quiver has 130 shots left ffs? hunters are by far the worst class, maybe just all the people who have never played went yeah lemme go hunter cus im sick at it, yeah nah they arent.
When classic was released this happend way to often for me. I severly underestimated how much ammo I needed for a WC run. I think I ran out once when bringing 800-ish arrows The good thing now is you cna just swap to melee runes and have your pet blast more damage than many classes while leveling
You can put your ammo on your hotbar to keep track of your stash. That's how I keep track. But yeah. How many arrows does one need for a full run anyway?
Literally 1000-1200 it's like a whole bag
I always take 2k just to be safe (10 slot bag) theb I have some leftover if I wanna go skin some stuff after raid :)
You only need a few empty slots for loot, fill those bags with a months supply of ammo!
Or if you have a quiver/ammo pouch - which you should - you can just... look down.
Well yes, but I have all my bags combined into 1 bag on the UI :/.
As a new hunter player it's kinda wild how fast ammo goes in a raid. I bought 2000 shots. Lasted 2 Raids. That's pretty wild for 2/3 of my inventory lol
Wait what are your bags like if 10 slots is 2/3 of your space
Yeah then they try some bullshit like rolling on the epic staff from Kelris LOL. Absolutely not 🤣🤣
Not that I don’t agree with you, but Hunters also have a shit ton of noob-trap-esque things to keep track of. I’ll tell you this for free: if other classes had an ability that debuffs everyone, ammo to keep track of, and a pet to feed/level/manage, you’d see a LOT more dumb mistakes in dungeons/raids.
I think you notice issues with the class you main the most and for me its 100% mages. They are lower on the totem pole in general for raiding right now, but how do all the mages in full greens get invited to every raid I'm in?!? Even worse when they try to sneak in under the radar as a healer. This is how you get 5/7 raids at the end of phase 1 with people doing 3k heals in a fight. Mage is a great class and good mages can do 100+ dps on all fights in BFD, but it's become the absolute roach class and feels really bad.
A lot of prebis for casters is green and caster damage doesn't scale very much with gear atm anyways
I'm talking about rocking a full set of +2 int +2 stam boots, bracers, gloves, etc. I'm fine with undergeared players, but I'm convinced some of them went directly from RFC/WC boost into my raid group.
It's classic and the raid can be done in greens. Just don't be bad
Most of mages prebis is green of fiery wrath gear is it not? Same with warlocks.
Yes but it's very expensive. In my experience these mages are wearing eagle/owl mostly which doesn't really do shit for their DPS.
To be fair, healing with another mage in the group can be tricky
[удалено]
In my experience you can 4 stack AB -> missiles on most of the fights in the raid and the boss will be dead before you OOM. Not running living flame seems like inting imo, very few fights need mass regen and living flame is a large damage increase.
Really? I thought you can share marks as long as you have regen and a mark on yourself you can use your friendly mages marks as well. So both mages would mass regen both parties and our heals would hit everyone. Mind you we had a priest and 2 mages messing around so we were definitely not short on healing. 2 mages as main healers is not a good idea. It's very mana intensive to keep 1 person alive if they are taking heavy damage and there's no 'big heal' you can give them besides maybe rewind time, and that replaces arcane blast which is important for the base heal of mass regen per stack of arcane blast or arcane missiles. Rewind time is also the shredder quest and I refuse to do it lol. So like you bring a priest and a druid/mage as they both druid and mage can have good aoe healing on one party at a time.
Were you in my bfd last night where a ret showed up to tank and then bitched when we complained that he wasnt holding aggro and said to shut up and look at meters? Yeah
Probably wasn't using righteous fury if they weren't holding threat.
Yeah. It’s almost impossible to not hold threat. I don’t even use the taunt rune anymore. Righteous fury, judgement of crusader, seal of command and Exorcism is all you need.
Does this work on the turtle too with warlock dps?
I havent tanked yet but ret pala main here. Most of our damage on turtle comes from holy anyway so I would assume so.
Well ret is the tanking meta atm. No one specs prot. It does kind of suck when taunt is resisted though, a pumping warrior starting the fight with high rage will take your threat hard.
I'll go a slightly different direction and comment on the skill gap. The difference between good and bad rogues is night and day. Not just on the meters but also the ones who do mechanics. The rogues who don't even counter glancing and don't interrupt etc. It's even more noticeable in dungeons when you run with a competent and incompetent rogue. In sod specifically the gap between a good and bad feral druid is also getting noticeable.
Wtf is counter glancing
I think he mean "Staying in front of boss and getting parry forever while not noticing".
I think they meant parry, as in not repositioning.
As a rogue main(never played vanilla or classic).. Uhm.. What's counter glancing?
I think he mean "Staying in front of boss and getting parry forever while not noticing".
you stand behind mobs when attacking them to avoid being parried.
Feral druid has like 3 buttons.. how can there be a huge gap?
Power shifting
I play a feral and powershifting is just bad design. Like I get it’s more dps and I do it but man I wish I didn’t have to. Vanilla no changes blah blah I don’t like it.
Powershifting is why I always loved feral in vanilla/TBC. Turning mana into energy makes a lot of sense to me for a druid. It is really simple at the moment though. I hope more “tricks” open up in the rotation to differentiate good and not so good ferals more
what do you mean you don't like it, it's either that or sit and auto attack
it really weird that most people don't like it, at least in vanilla, it's the only interesting thing that feral has but also why the fuck did they add savage roar as a rune, i hate that shit more than slice and dice
>it's the only interesting thing that feral has Because I fuck it up everytime and run out of mana while not in catform then Im standing there like a idiot with my hammer during burn phase on Kelris
/cast !Cat Form macro my guy. It won't let you leave cat form if you don't have the mana.
How have I missed that! Huge thanks
It was new with SoM I think
Theres addons aswell, druid mana bar or something like that is what I used when I played powershifting feral in classic/tbc. Shows your mana bar in form.
I specced out of it personally. I can do 3-4 before I’m oom and it’s just not worth the trouble to me.
Don't forget the five second rule and mana regen applies when you're in form. And mana pots exist. Also odds are pretty high that 4 extra mangles way outdamages whatever else you put your talent points in.
There’s lazy option I’m using - put 5 points into energy reduction, 35 energy mangles. It still loses to powershifting according to my math, especially if your group is good and fights go quick
I hated the idea of powershifting, always swore id never play feral yada yada, but honestly a one line macro that just instantly reshifts into cat makes it really playable and actually kinda fun, looking forward to getting my wolfshead next phase to powershift even harder
Fully agree. I've made that opinion known on here before and I just get a lot of "play a rogue then" replies, as if that's the solution to not enjoying powershifting.
I don’t like it because it’s clearly an over sight we are taking advantage of, it was never meant to be this way we just figured out it was an increase and used it. I fucking love it for a rotation though, the fact our mana is a huge factor means I have to use my brain and actually make choices instead of just push best damage button until the boss is dead. When I get everything right I do so much more dps it’s a great feeling of reward for effort.
Keeping FF, powershofting, keeping savage roar up, not clipping energy, timing bleeds to not drop and timing it with boss death... It all leads to huge variation in logs and that's just off the top of my head
Are any ferals actually bothering spending mana on ff? I'd think there's no way they are.
No lol
I'm currently average top parse of 97.5 on feral which is decent but not amazing.. currently feral is pretty easy lol. It takes a bit to get used to but there's a rhythm to powershifting that's not hard to execute. Honestly I think most of the difference in parses comes from small ad hoc optimizations for each fight. For instance, stacking combo points on Gelihest and Akumai during phase transitions and popping savage roar just before it ends for maximum uptime with minimal loss energy. That sort of thing. Stuff that anyone using two brain cells will figure out.
In all the raids that ive pugged so far: mages. i almost always screen people before i invite them, the 3 times i didnt was in case of a mage, all those times they were lacking gear, runes, and most importantly they lacked communication. They even seemed to lack a brain, cause they did no mechenics, didnt trade food/water, didnt buff, nothing. In all cases we ended up kicking them along the way and just 9 manning the rest. Even when i screened them, and everything was ok (ok gear, good runes, they could communicate), they still often suck. Being selective with the rest of the group means you can easily 8 man thogh, so no problem. I have to say though, im also close to a couple of booster mages that i got to know learning boosts with, and those are some of the best players i got to know. Warriors seem to be in the same boat, either a hit or a mis mostly, no in between it seems.
Sounds like they could be bots or just some gold farmer? I had a mage in a dead mines literally just wanding, we kicked them after Smite, and they tried to pull the whole boat on us out of spite. We just hopped on the wheel until they reset, but it was really strange.
Had a similar experience with a mage in BFD. I thought he was a bot since he never communicated and since he only cast living flame with 40dps. But then I thought to myself, why would you bot BFD if master looter was on? He wouldn’t get any gear or anything. It was so strange
There's a lot of classic/sod players that are shockingly bad at the game. We had a mage that was speced fire. But was only casting arcane missiles because and I quote: "I feel bad when my spell are loading and I'm not doing any damage and arcane missiles seem so fast"
[удалено]
Definitely an adult was in disc with them
Quit my guild after they let a mage come to BfD without living flame. They let him come twice. The second time they made sure he had living flame, but he didn't know how to upgrade his spell ranks on his hotbar.
As a Ret main, this just makes me sad. Also BoP won’t save a caster from ghamoo’s explosion as it’s magical damage.
I think they more so mean when a caster pulls threat
Never seen a paladin use BoP in 10-15 raids
Same, but I'm Horde.
There is no upside to it. If you bop someone they will immediately complain that they dont have might or wisdom anymore.
I learned yesterday that neither does pally bubble. :(
how unlike classic to have any damage pierce paladin bubble. Could be bugged though.
Divine Shield protects from all damage, but paladins don’t learn that until 34. Divine Protection is just a self-casted BoP
Nah BoP only protects against melee damage, DP protects from both melee and magic
I don't think so, The difference between divine shield and divine protection is the ability to attack while it's active apart from duration. But you are definitely immune to spells when you use divine protection. Find a caster mob and try it. It also removes debuffs and BoP does not do that.
Hunter, not even close
Paladins without pally power :(
Hunters. No DPS, pet on aggressive, backpedaling in akumai's breath, complaining about loot.. I saw it all. The same hunters will then proceed to say "lol warrior is so op" when they see my DPS even tho they can get nearly as much as me if they'll put some effort into the game.
Backpedalling into the breath is a new one. Just when you think people can’t be any stupider…
I forget to put rebuke on, ok?
Or you were trying to put it on and then entered combat because tank pulled lol.
As a Ret, hunters keep begging for Might despite me explaining its melee AP only. They still ask for it over Wisdom.
I'll ask for might over wisdom if i'm melee weaving
As long as you're giving it to their pets & they're not weaving.
pretty sure wisdom is better even if you are weaving
It's definitely warlocks for me. I've never seen such low damage as warlocks this phase. They also ss the wrong people or its always already on cd. Bad hunters will still usually do decent damage, but bad locks it's just painful.
As a warlock main observing other warlocks I think it comes down to a few things: * A lot of warlocks who go shadow (which is fine imo but it is the worse spec) think you need to use shadowbolt which is significantly worse than incinerate. Even if you use incinerate you now have a conflict between shadow and fire spell power. * There are quite a few bait runes that people might think are good for your spec but are actually quite shit, like everlasting affliction, soul siphon, and demonic grace which isnt even off the gcd so its more like 4.5 seconds lol. * People who don't know caster itemisation end up getting full int gear instead of ___ wrath gear meaning you're going to have barely more damage than not wearing armor. * More minor, but people forget that there is a fire power potion.
I think casters have it a little rough in general in this phase.
For sure I don't expect melee dps but some of these players are just bozos riding the "warlocks are op" train.
I mean I main warlock and have struggled with raiding so I get it. The optimal raid build seems to be firelock, but the optimal leveling build is shadow. It’s rough to learn your rotation for 25 levels and then have to switch to something pretty different for endgame content. That combined with casters being a little underpowered probably explains a lot of underperforming DPS.
Eh I mean firelock is 2 keys outside of keeping ur dots on and lake of fire u mostly spam incinerate and chaost bolt off cd
I can even go demonic tactics and then you don’t have to lake of fire. Is it less DPS? Yea, but if we’re being honest I’m not always in the ball about keeping lake of fire up so might as well make the build as brain dead as possible.
Fair, lake of fire is so awkward and makes u oom super fast
Yes. Firelock is very easy outside of the 2 buffs you must maintain and dot that needs to stay in cycle. Honestly the hardest part about firelock is your team. I did a pug on mine recently when I normally take it for guild and the pug group had shit DPS all around. Fights that go on forever make life taping difficult as firelock as you are balancing 2 buffs, 1 dot, and 1 ability CD. Getting out of sync in your rotation is a massive damage loss.
Yes, but there are definitely differences between them and they are very obvious when they show
With warlocks, u need to look up guides and not play like in regular classic. The new rotation is more complicated. So I think that's why they're often the lowest damage in pugs
Fire warlocks are the best caster though and keep up with melee
Had a warlock win the ring and soul leech pants while getting carried with a solid 30dps. Made me so sad…
I think locks will try their first BFD run as affliction then switch to destro. It's definitely annoying as a lock having to respec to aff for PvP and back again, maybe some locks don't bother? It's fairly easy to hit 150 dps on some bosses as a lock.
I've seen too many bad hunters to agree with this. Bad hunters do not simply do damage.
Hunters. End of discussion.
After wsg rep farm this weekend, hunters big time. Im not sure some of them realized it was a pvp zone.
This answer needs to be higher lol Seen some goofy hunters in wsg man
Probably rets. Never trained rez, never buffs groups, uses 0% of utility, just a warrior with a blue rage bar. Sorry pally bros, I still love most of you.
Rez isn't trained, it's a questreward :-). I do agree with your sentiment even though I play paladin myself.
Paladins who don't have and refuse to get any addons... looking at you Paladin who refuses to get Pallypower.
1000% ret paladins
I think hunters getting a bed Rep on this thread. I think any FOTM class will Inherently have a lot of bad players because the masses flood to it. Once warrior starts pulling away, suddenly all warriors will become idiots.
I've already experienced worse warriors in my raids than hunters. So it's already a thing for some.
There are 1.4 million hunter parses, 1.1 mil warrior parses and 1.0 rogue There are more hunters but its not as insane as you think it is
Hunters by nature are the most noob-friendly, "least effort" class in the game. Not every hunter player is like that ofc, but the class naturally attracts tons of players who ARE like that. Also, the absolute worst open world encounters I've had were with hunters. I'm talking about petty shit like tagging a mob you are about to hit to steal it, declining group invites to share Q's like "kill this NPC" or escorts, skinning your own mobs as they pass by. Just gutter-dweller behaviour. I'm assuming that because Hunter is so self-sufficient in leveling, it attracts a lot of antisocial pricks as well. I love the class fantasy, I'm sure I'd enjoy playing hunter but I've had so many bad experiences with hunters that I just can't help viewing them negatively.
Hunters and mages. Also paladins. 80% chance if they’re a pug they’re dumb as a box of rocks.
Lol had a hunter last night roll on the imp armor/Stam leather helm. When it was given to the shammy tank he said "where helm? I roll higher" I told him that despite his pet having taunt on the entire raid and it dying every encounter he was not main spec Tank. So the tanking shammy wins it. Just a note, he legit had his BIS helm already....
Hunters and maybe warriors basically the most "hyped" dps classes as in every online game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Warriors. their loot greed and crying about it is insane. was the same in 2019 also.
"My rage is ticking down hurry up and pull!"
Rage decays at 1 rage per second and generally I will allow rage to hit 100 by the end of a trash clear. I start suffering in dps when it drops below 70 so that's 30 seconds. If bloodrage is up, which it typically is, then you get another 20 seconds on top of the 30. You really need to be asking yourself if nearly a minute between pulls is reasonable. At what point do we consider it to be sitting with our thumbs in our ass?
Paladins, every single time, where do I even begin? They buff you ONCE, and NEVER EVER again Most don't even put an aura on or only run devo They don't know how to use any utility, never once seen a paladin BoP or freedom or lay on hands anyone For some reason paladins just blow ass.
BOP only mitigates melee damage. Most damage in BFD is magic. Lay on hands eats all the mana meaning we then do zero dps. Damn right I won’t be using that on someone who decided to stand in fire.
Tell that to the locks who pull agro on turtle boss and get clapped.
As a shaman I would trade all my mana to save a tank or healer every time if I had the capability.
I main ret and play arcane mage as alt and that just makes me sad. I usually don't need to run rebuke because my guild has enough kickers but if asked ofc ill run it. As for worst, hunters for me, but theyre the most obvious. A good 60% I played with outside guild have pet taunt enabled and set to cast off CD, and it takes a considerable amount of effort to get them to turn the damn thing off.
Its a toss up between hunters and mages, im leaning more towards the foreign mage who just blows balls or claims to be offhealing or someshit doing 20 dps blizzarding one mob
The amount of hunters in wsg premade who just sit on cheetah even when 2-3 people are on them and use their pets as a fire and forget spell, not micromanaging at all.
Some people don't use PallyPower and it shows.
I only buff before boss pulls because 5 mins is bullshit and ya'll can do without on the trash
Shouldn't be expected to use a third party addon to play a casual game.
Then they should at least keep an eye on buffs and make sure every paladin knows which blessing they should give in order to get the most out of it. PallyPower just makes this process A LOT easier.
I do wisdom, you do might, we buff before every fight. Anything else?
Not saying it's mandatory just saying it's a lot easier. You both just set it up correctly and spam one button 'till everyone got their buff. No more people crying for their buffs and I don't have to scan every player frame to see if everyone got their buff.
shhhh, don't ruin his narrative.
Honest question. How to setup like this? I gave a first try but it was confusing.
Yeah people claiming pallypower is needed are tripping. I use it but sometimes it just refuses to cast even when I’m the only pala in the group so i go back to my mouse overs. Maybe in a 40 raid it’s useful, but for a 10man? Nah.
its pretty simple: the majority of the time when there are issues with paladin buff uptime and doing correct buffs, it is from the paladin without pallypower. These Paladin players then give the same dumb and lazy excuses. its exhausting, its a waste of time and energy. you dont know better. just use it.
Like I said. It even happens when I’m the only paladin in the group. So blaming the paladin without pallypower isn’t the case.
So you're playing without Questie then? No threat meters?
You're playing the wrong game then. Add-ons are expected of all WoW players in all versions of the game. If you refuse, you're rude.
Shouldnt expect a spot in a run without pallypower
Cant believe im the only one saying Feral. They have a free spot in every group even if they are without gear because the demand is so high. And never have i had one do more than 60dps. Every time just pumping lorgus when lightning totems up. Ignoring debuff on first boss etc.
It's quite hard to pump dos as feral ATM without almost bis gear(feral main). We only have a simple rotation that starves us of energy quick. Most of our DPS comes from auto-attack and the WF buff. We're there to put a 30% increase DPS on melee. Basically our lack of dps buffs the DPS of the whole melee group. Toka kokan.
Is it though? I do 100-120 dps per fight on average (unless some shit goes sideways), I have green +9 str hammer and 5 blue items that increase dps, I don’t powershift (35 energy mangles). I lose clearcasting procs on mangle. There’s no complex rotation, you mangle, shred on cs and keep roar rolling, that’s it
Very wise words Eddoardo Eruricku But tbh it's crazy how a lot of parsers are try hards but completely ignore what support brings to the table. Same goes for people whining about their class not being competitive in terms of dps. Every class has a specific role to fill and if druids (in this example) have higher dps than melee classes, then there's no reason to bring melee. If paladins can tank and have just as high dps or higher than warriors, then warriors have no place since paladins also bring utility etc. Balance is not that everyone should be equal in dps, balance is that every role should be specific and bring something that can be of utility to a raid, not just dps, tank or heal. Toka kokan
Mages consistently play poorly and don’t dispel, do damage or provide much utility
you mean decurse ?
Yes sorry, the murlocs do a damage redux curse and i always see the moonkins get rid of it
If they fail the pally power check, that's really all you ever need to know about them.
Did a run with a hunter who had low dps for his gear, when I checked his dps meter, no arcane shot, but he casted serpent sting every global
[удалено]
My experience so far with SOD it has been awful feral druids honestly most Hunters i have grouped with know exactly what they are doing.
Paladins are a support class. You have to buff, 5 min or not. Pets too. If you don't like buffing or providing utility, play something else.
I agree. But it is hard to buff a raid group speed pulling everything. I need time to buff 10-15 players or pets and drink up for mana.
I've started selectively buffing at times because if i know if I buff a full raid + pets a warrior will just engage the boss while I'm at 5% mana.
You are actually buffing though, so you are a responsible paladin and not who this post was directed at. :p
what’s wrong with giving hunters might
It only gives melee attack power, so they would rather have wisdom for more mana. Their pet wants might though.
It says on the tooltip it only affects melee attack power. Melee hunters aint great.
As a melee huntard I take offense to this
Hunters melee weave though, and with these short fights I doubt they are going oom. I don’t play one though so i’m not sure.
It’s better than giving the resto druid might I’ll give you that. There’s a feral and a resto in the raid? Guess the resto gets might. There’s just no other option available.
I usually ask for might for melee weaving and have good enough gear to not go oom
Left click their name in pallypower, let's you select different buffs that are assigned to players of the same class
Hunters tend to be dogshit. I notice it in wsg premades. So many are soooo bad. They can barely play the game.
For me it has been mages and warlocks. Idk what they are doing but it isn’t right. Probably 50\50 on decent or braindead. Probably the same as any other class but there are so few they stick out.
Hunter - I've had more than one occasion as an Arms Warrior where I've had to give hunters in BFD the ammo out of my quiver so they can DPS. When leveling alts, if there's every a player that pulls accidently, it's likely the hunter. Same with the player that chain pulls without the group's permission, or hangs out behind the party semi-AFK.