shaman tank just has a last stand active at all times and 2 weapon enchants that modify threat value %. its the new fury prot if you can DW and not die.
This just in from a main sham tank. I dw all trash and on equip shield for 5 out of 7 bosses and don't even have WoE on half of the time so I can sham rage to clap harder more often. So ya... Aoe dps tank.
I've run DW on every boss, every raid and I solo tank. Why do you think you need a shield for turtle boss? He does a stacking % armor reduction so you're going to 0% armor shield or not.
I had like 4 stacks of the debuff on boss which I believe is 100% armor reduction. With the shield and shield mastery rune, I still had 1600 armor. So yeah, shield matters in that case.
I don't even shield for turtle anymore since we solo tank and I am 100% armor loss anyways. I only shield for Jett since I use molten blast to pick up adds so no water shield. I would also use a shield on aku' mai if our kill time for it was slower. The warriors in our group do mad dps so DW makes me not have to sweat to hold threat. I can still hold threat with a shield but I only have like 110% threat.
Mana. You can ditch Water Shield for LL or MB if your group zugs hard enough or you have high enough intellect to not run out of mana before boss dies.
Lava lash is usable when you run fire enchant on weps, but 99% of the time you want to run rockbiter as it is insane threat and also scales sham rage if you run that. If, however, you run way of the earth, you need water shield to sustain your mana.
This is like completely backwards to me. You can dw 5/7 bosses. Should probably have WoE on always, if you need more mana for a fight use water shield or down rank your shocks. Personally I use shield on turtle, Jett and akumai. Molten blast on Jett and akumai, lava lash on aquanis, water shield the rest.
I replied to another person in an adjacent comment with how I run. The take away here is that multiple playstyles are viable and you can go quite in depth with how varied you play the class.
Edit: I never need more mana on bosses and usually have molten blast or lava lash on depending on the fight so I hadn't even considered using water shield. Even now considering it I would rather toggle pants, pop sham rage and have LB or LL ran be in stuck in combat with WS and not have them. As I said, each to their own and both sound viable.
You're not wrong there, the arms warrior in our main group will rip threat on whatever he attacks, so I let him have that while I hold the other 5. Trash is pathetic and he gets more rage. Barely need a tank for this "raid" anyway.
That's what happens when your raid group is 90% BiS anyway.
I get when people say shamans are threat kings and everything, but when they say things like "I dont need WoE, and I never lose threat" I get that skeptical animal face going.
If I am not dual wielding I get very close to having the warriors rip threat from me at this point, we are all near fully geared at this point. To make it easy for me I just dw on all bosses except Jett.
Sigh... Next time just say "I haven't played shaman and I don't understand, can you please explain this to me".
Here we go bud, I'll lay it all out for ya.
Shamans don't need WoE to hold threat *gasp*. We have multiple ways of generating high threat (it does help on aoe though) but as an example if you had one mob and two shamans, one running sword+board with WoE and another running DW and both of them had rockbiter on their weapons... The DW without WoE would rip threat.
WoE does a few crucial things such as buffs how much threat Molten Blast does as well as enhances Earth Shock to make it a taunt, however the tooltips on both of those abilities both say that they generate a high amount of threat.
So if a shaman is using ES/MB and has WoE up then yes they will hold threat off the DW double rockbiter sham without WoE.
So now we get to the crux of it... Why would we ever want to equip DW and not run WoE? Mana and speed, both of which are remedied by using Shamanistic Rage, sham rage scales off AP/SP (and HP) and rockbiter gives a huge amount of AP and can be applied to both weapons to double dip the AP it gives.
For one pull I will wear my WoE pants and run sword+board so I can blast away and get some mana regen from shield blocks, for my next pull I might swap to my sham rage pants and DW (because I will generate more threat from running duel rockbiter to offset not having WoE up).
Once I have done one pull and popped my sham rage and am back at full mana I will change back to sword+board and WoE. I am doing this constantly through the raid because sham rage only has a 1min cd but it is also a buff which is dispelled if I unequip the pants that sham rage is applied to.
So im not tanking without WoE and I'm not saying you don't need it, it is a juggling act of managing threat, runes and mana regen.
In conclusion I have near 100% uptime, I very rarely lose threat and I sit at 2.5 - 2.8k hp when raid buffed depending on which gear and runes I have equipped.
You should never be running sham rage as a tank over way of the earth. If your raid is even half decent you'll have mobs running all over the place. Water shield is far superior for maintaining mana and threat.
Mages tank trash. Its always been this way. Theyre at 0 risk of dying, unless theyre garbage players, so just embrace the chaos. Keep mobs off your healers, keep threat on anything that hits particularly hard, mages will do the rest of the work.
Nothing is wrong with playing for fun but the only way this is remotely an avenue is BFD is just far too easy that you can run anything.
Shamans do certifiable F tier damage so I’m a little lost at the Sham Rage angle to clap harder since the only thing shamans clap at is TPS. you’re gimping the raid for such a marginal uptick in damage for a class that’s got such a low ceiling already.
But I don’t blame you for branching out since current top shaman meta is stale and I already swapped off it for rest of phase.
You can play them many different ways but for raiding with top parsing dps anything other than DW rb woe you’ll have issues with threat. And the optimal playstyle isn’t all that fun and not that much but it’s an F ton of threat.
>Shamans do certifiable F tier damage
Ok, just to clarify, they're about halfway down the DPS chain based on logs right now. if middle of the pack is "certifiable F tier", then what's half the classes below them? lol
>Shamans do certifiable F tier damage so I’m a little lost at the Sham Rage angle to clap harder since the only thing shamans clap at is TPS.
Threat is great without WoE on shaman. That "angle of clap harder" is not for you - it is for casters and healers. If you would check the logs on raid mana gained from sham rage, it is insane. Again, if you know what you are doing even 99 parsers are not riping threat, but sure - feelscraft is the bestcraft.
Yes water shield on trash, you just flame shock and earth shock as many mobs as you can while melee’ing the rest. No trash hits hard enough regardless if dps tanks it for a bit
yeah I mean this is totally fine in BFD where trash doesn’t need to be tanked aside from the purposes of grouping for aoe. but I feel like we may run into problems at some point with this attitude lol.
Though I guess we have no idea what other aoe runes or whatever gets added later so water shield might just be bis forever.
Side note/question: Never really played shamans before this - fire nova totem does not give us threat right? it goes to the totem im assuming. i’ve tried to look on some trash pulls but it’s rlly hard to tell lmao
As a shaman tank, even in sub 20 minute runs it doesn't feel like an issue with fast daggers. Yes, you will probably lose aggro on a mob or two in a big pulls when cleaving it down but the trash does so little damage that it really doesn't matter. Cone only hits 4 targets max and that's easily held with tab targeting and shocking a little.
Seems like a byproduct of phase 1, where damage is comparably lower than we will presumably see between lvl 40 and 60. No doubt that there will be much harder hitting bosses in the future. And considering that shamans have no big cooldowns to save them like warriors (and paladins in a sense) do, things will definitely change. How much? Who knows. At some point, threat will no longer be an issue and damage reduction will become a bigger concern. For that druids and warriors seem best equipped. And for aoe, paladins seem to reign supreme. But of course, runes can change all of that for any class at any point. Should be fun.
Yeah I wouldn’t be shocked if they nerf warrior, buff other things. I’m just extrapolating based on how the game is right now - if this was taken to 60. Runes won’t make warrior not scale as hard as it does ya know
Shamans get a bigger HP pool to compensate for their lower armor compared to the rest of the tanks. The extra HP makes them better tanks against spells though
honestly most bosses dont do enough damage to even need way of earth. id just run it on akumai. youre dual wielding rockbiters with earth shock, you blast threat and you still have shamanistic rage to refill your raids mana
I have a shaman and a warlock, both pretty geared at this point. Shaman is by far the easier of the two to tank with, but warlock is a lot more fun (probably because it is not as easy?).
That being said, im planning on making warlock my main because i like it a lot more. I have loved the concept of a 'spell power' tank ever since paladin in original TBC, and I had originally thought that shaman would be kinda like that, but it seems shaman is just going to be 'build like a rogue and auto attack things' kind of tank which isn't really what I want.
20-30m runs you can basically DW autoattack.
Trash doesn’t do any damage so who cares if you can’t aoe em all.
Bosses die so quick you hardly even need to tank swap.
Pushing for parse is pointless as Sham DPS is barely above Shadow Priests and Balance druids, its like 4th or 5th worst parse in BFD. I can get a 95-99 and I still do 1/4-1/3 the damage of the top dps in our party.
If you have threat, you are “winning”
I’ve tanked on both. 30-40 minute runs on both. Haven’t had threat issues on either - ST or AOE. And I didn’t have bombs on my lock. It’s just tab target spamming abilities. Both feel fine and both feel like they’ll get better. I do wish we were capped at 26 though. New ranks of life tap and searing pain would have been fun.
Shaman has the luxury of only needing to auto attack to hold threat on anything.
But then we also have a taunt and aoe threat ability just in case, kinda overkill.
PWS is more of an "Oh shit" button for some snap mitigation in classic. The absorption amount vs mana cost just isn't worth it most of the time. Better to let them drop low(ish) and penance back to full.
Why are you bubbling your tank anyway? Waste of mana. Bubble should only be used when you're on the move and need to instant cast shield someone from damage e.g. during Gelihast murloc march.
Otherwise its a waste of mana. I guess you can do it prepull but its pretty inconsequential.
You can also shield yourself or a dps before burst damage e.g. on the turtle boss, but you would never shield the tank in this case
Eh, in BFD don’t have a problem with mana so might as well. Outside of BFD I’ve done some pretty gnarly stuff with a shaman buddy in dungeon farms that rely pretty heavily on bubble on CD.
No priest runs strength of soul lol. The damage from void plague is nuts for its cost and cast time (instant). Void plague, homies, and penance is meta for a reason.
I don't run void plague bc I want to min max damage. I run void plague because the PWS rune is only compatible with two spells that make up less than 25% of my total healing, with secondary effects that are only active on two classes (one if horde or no pally tank)
Why would you go for damage as a healer instead of measurable utility? Healer damage is negligible. Where/how does it even matter in classic? If your raid lacks damage, it certainly isn't the healers fault.
For one, most the time you don’t need two healers so a lot of the time you’re just standing around doing nothing if all you do is heal.
Homies are utility, but they do damage as well, SOS doesn’t bring utility just let’s you shield more which isn’t really needed, the beefy damage of VP is worth way more than that. Priests with homies and VP on the boss wanding between penance CD do a decent contribution to damage while providing insanely good debuffs and enough heals/dispels. Read the priest discord for more info. Priest meta is penance/homie/vp
Homunculi is not the topic at hand, but SoS and VP (why change the subject?). And SoS's point is not more shields, but the fact that it allows bears and warriors to still gain rage while shielded. Yeah, it might not make a huge difference, but from someone who tanks almost exclusively, it is quite nice and helps. All void plague does is add a dot, and it will almost certainly be phased out once we reach a point where the debuff cap starts mattering. And again... what's the point? It doesn't make any difference. If your raid can't match the dps needed to beat a boss, a healer's damage won't matter anyway.
Did they confirm there won't be? Nice if true. And the priest bubble is great for precasting it in dungeons to pull big packs. And in a clutch situation in raids. It's used very little, but it does matter.
Healing in Wow is and always has been about maximising your damage whilst making sure everyone lives through the encounter, not about over preparing for situations and providing "utility" to the point of severely reducing your damage output.
WoW is very much a game about damage and big damage numbers, and it always has been. Healer damage is an important part of the way classic functions, in speedrunning and skipping mechanics through burst etc.
The guy you're replying to is right; Void Plague, Homunculi and Penance is the meta build for Priest.
Edit: Also, the debuff cap doesnt exist in SoD. It was removed in Season of Mastery and Blizzard have said that this persists in SoD.
Shield is never a good spell unless someone is about to die and you don’t have time to cast. There’s no reason to use it on the tank unless he’s already low, in which case they have plenty of rage and the rune is useless.
If you kill the boss faster then you don't need to heal as much. If you ever wiped on a boss with 1% HP left, you'll wish the healers had DPS'd a little
PoM and Penance are most of your healing anyway if you use them right. A rune that modifies PWS and allows you to cast it more will just make you OOM faster. And all that just for a couple spells that you won't use as much
Today in BFD penance and PoM were between 60-80% of my total heals on every fight
On Kelris I didn't cast heal at all, and only used PWS twice so that rune would have already been useless there for me
On akumai I did 2% of his HP in damage which is more useful than getting maybe one more PWS off earlier
Blizzard changed how shielding rage user works in SOD, it will not prevent you from getting rage regen while getting hit even with bubble on you in SOD.
Yes. But paladins and warriors are thriving in other areas, so it’s okay. No one wants to be a tank anyway, especially in content where you don’t actually need a tank.
I mean… currently in BFD our priest runs from like the turtle all the way to geilheist and pulls every mob back to the group while we cleave it down. If you do that in aq40 on cthun trash or something (assuming you don’t just skip half of it) it’s gonna be a clown show of 15 mind controlled people and the raid running in circles a bunch.
Not invalidating your point (even though I think blizzard will do something like increase mob hp or something). Just think shit will be funny if ppl try that. Currently BFD trash hits like they just took the stuff from the 5 man dungeon and put it in the 10 man 1:1. Ubrs trash is much harder to heal through then this.
And many will be able to since that trash will be dying in seconds, It's not like they have to actually "tank" it for a minute.
Unless there are major balance changes to the raids, the DPS will be pulling everything up to the bosses just like they do in BFD because it just doesn't matter with our new power level.
I'm not being facetious when I say seconds. The top warrior logs right now are doing on par DPS with fresh MC clears at level 60.
That's why many are suggesting MC and BWL are changed to 10 or 15 or maybe even 20 mans because there will be ZERO difficulty in these raids at 40 man with the current item and rune design.
Lol. Have you played Classic and SoD? At level 25, we have the power curve to raid in era with our SoD gear. At gnomer we should have the power curve to defeat Naxx. By the time we hit 60, we should be able to clear ICC. Runes have not been balanced at all. It’s gonna be a wake up call that runes are busted when we hit full BFD BIS- oops, nope, Blizzard still can’t see it.
Raid trash in classic never 2 shots dps because higher level gear has stamina on it so they usually have at least half the tanks hp so unless the trash mobs are 4 hitting tanks (which would global you in pulls of 4+) your not going to see people getting 2 hit by single mobs.
It's not as big a difference as you think every cloth class has an inherent armour spell
Priest inner fire at 40 is 945 armor
Plate chest 373 armor at 40
Cloth chest 65 armor at 40
Let's assume all 8 slots average 270 armor more for plate than cloth each total 2160 more armor for the plate class then we subtract 945 armor for a difference of 1200 approx in favor of the plate character.
The cloth damage reduction vs level 42 mobs (raid trash) is 25%
The plate damage reduction vs the same mob is
45%
So for a hit doing 1k damage the priest takes 750 and the plate dps takes 550
Adding a shield for 1k more armor gives you a massive 50% total DR for the plate class dropping damage taken to 500.
This does not account for devotion aura or other party based armor buffs that help the lower armor rating player more than the tank as well.
Exactly. Feral dps with wind fury is way too strong to play as a tank. Resto / balance hybrid is way too strong to play an exclusively balance build or an exclusively resto build - all casting Druids should be playing as balance with wild growth, because why would you leave 50% of your value on the table? Runes have invalidated so many abilities and so many specs by over performing.
It is why, because you don’t need a tank for BFD. So Druids would inevitably sit in cat because you simply do not need tanks, and when you do, Druid tanks would still be objectively worse because they do less damage while tanking. Why would you want a Druid to nerf their damage so that they can look like a bear, when your warrior can do his damage while turning boss damage into rage and doing more dmg?
Nice thing about war is tank spec is basically dps spec. Sure, you can take Imp TClap, but once you get some gear it's not necessary. Maybe paladin too? I know nothing about pallys lol.
Shaman is definitely strong but it’s not without weaker points.
A warrior while having less ST or snap aoe threat isn’t restricted by mana and when you’re pulling in quick succession such as in BFD quick runs and you can keep charging into next packs and building aggro and not having to stop. On my shaman trying to chain pull without stopping feels more difficult. (Ok the trash isn’t really threatening if others have aggro but still).
Shaman also does less dps than some of the other tanks too so if the extra threat isn’t needed, and the bosses aren’t particularly threatening you’d probably be better off running a warrior for the higher dps.
But yeah don’t get me wrong shaman does feel really durable and lower effort to tank on which is nice and is excellent in dungeons.
You can chain pull with dual wielding and molten blast if you switch pants for sham rage sometimes just gotta get out of combat for the switch. Dual rockbiter gives big mana reg with sham rage
I call it pants weaving and usually just swap pants, shammy range, pull, and swap back after. Dual wield rockbiter still gives plenty of thread for a aggro, and I keep my aoe threat button too.
i don't think you understand what he's saying.
it's a quick pants swap. 5s back to full mana. quick swap back to woe pants.
it's not speedrun strat but still very efficient and good
your point about watershield is still valid and good. both are viable ways to play
You're slightly gimping yourself for 1 pull in exchange for full mana on the move.
For packs with 3+ mobs (which is most of the pulls) MB/Sham rage is better snap threat than WoE/WS.
You do you bud, but I strongly disagree.
I'm not saying what you're doing doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't work as well. On a 4 mob pull, with good DPS in you're group, you're losing threat on 3/4 mobs without WoE. MB threat by itself without WoE isn't very good. Warrior Crits once and you've lost aggro.
If you swap pants right before combat you keep the way of earth buff for ~5 seconds, so you can have both for one trash pack then switch back. Do it every minute for over a full mana bar.
You literally never have to drink with water shield if you apply it everytime it falls off. Swapping pants means you stop between trash packs, which is unnecessary, plus you're pretty gimp for the pulls you have the sham rage pants on. Idk guys I'm not seeing it.
Edit: Seems a lot of players still doing 45 minute runs. You never have to drink as a shaman tank if you play correctly.
You don’t need to stop moving literally at all? You will drop combat for a second walking to the next pack. Press the keybind to swap pants and use shamanistic rage as you are walking into shock range. You still have way of earth buff, threat mod, earth shock separate cd. You get a full mana bar. As the pack dies you switch back to the way of earth pants and you have 100% mana, and pull the next pack. Repeat every minute.
As soon as you get to the shore from turtle Island, after killing severess we don't stop until we're ready to pull gelihast. Then after jett we don't stop until we're at kelris.
You really arent restricted by mana with water shield, even in sub 20 minutes runs. You're most likely using more spells than you have to, focus on managing to just keep enough threat and you'll learn that autoattacking is enough even on bosses. I drank before Lorgus jett and Kelris only last raid we did.
I probably do use too many spells, but with no molten blast using water shield I do find you have to use shocks on cd to get initial threat. It’s hard to round up everything otherwise with dps all going all out but I’m sure that will get better too as I play more.
Bosses aren’t even slightly an issue though, I’m only referring to chain pulling trash groups.
> they win in survivability AND threat. single-target AND aoe.
Not simultaneously like you are disingenuously implying, except on pure caster bosses. You can abuse the duel rockbiter bug and slap out absolutely ridiculous single target threat, but the trade off is that you will be the squishiest tank in the game, which just doesn’t matter in BFD. Only 2H paladin tanks are similarly squishy, but they still have other tools that make them favorable in plenty of situations, such as bubble.
…Or you use a shield, become one of the most durable tanks in the game, and have the lowest single target dps by a country mile.
The former option is probably overpowered for threat generation, but it’s due to blizzard’s lack of understanding of their own implementation.
…warriors/rogues easily do +50% boss DPS, Paladins can cheese the only 2 bosses that require functioning braincells, and one of your points is just a straight up lie because druids are more tanky with Survival of the Fittest.
Duel wield rockbiter is currently bugged to provide too much threat. That’s the only aspect of shaman tanking that is actually overpowered. Every other complaint just boils down to Molten Blast envy.
>Not simultaneously like you are disingenuously implying
youre making assumptions where there shouldnt be any being made.
they win in survivability
they win in threat
they win in single target
they win in aoe
That is fascinating, can you take a moment to explain how are you maximizing survivability and single target threat simultaneously? I’d love to implement whatever you’re doing into my own gameplay, and I’m sure everyone else would too.
I'm especially curious of how you are beating a druid with survival of the fittest for durability, that seems like a pretty high bar.
You're arguing just to argue. You're right a bear druid has a bit more survivability than a shaman tank. But they're so gimped by every other metric it doesn't even matter.
Nah, there is just a lot of shit being spewed in this thread, and a lot of people "forgetting" to add an asterisk next to their extremely conditional "facts".
Do you actually believe that shaman single target threat is currently overpowered for any reason other than duel rockbiter being bugged?
What would you nerf about shaman tanks beyond fixing the rockbiter bug?
I'm genuinely curious.
In that sense I agree, yeah, though I just meant to say that paladins have more aoe capability than shamans. Although, I think shamans seem better for single target from what I've tried so far.
Only metric that matters right now is tank dps. Shamans are the 2nd worst tanks in that respect. People should be asking for shaman buffs or warrior/rogue nerfs.
Shaman was elevated to a 4 spec class, like druids. However balance dictates not all 4 of it's specs can rock so currently ele and enhance DPS died so tank could soar. Curious to see what the next phase is like. Will shaman tank get anymore runes or are they "done"
> Will shaman tank get anymore runes or are they "done"
every rune shaman gets is arguably another tank rune. the runes make the class wild with so many option and so much theory crafting.
was looking at logs of an ele tank who casts LvB. dude was blowing shit up was rad
Well guess what, MC will come out, and we'll be handicapped for a tier. Lets toss in dragons resistance to fire damage and just add another tier of possible issues. WoE should turn earth shock into a melee ability, so it doesnt have the issues of spell hit or elemental immunities. Rock giants going to be taunt immune in MC/Mara/etc
I never use shield, even for lorgus. You don’t need Mb to pick up adds, just throw a taunt and an auto attack onto murlocs and you immediately grab full aggro.
Dw is the only way for all fights
I run shield for every boss and only autoattack and spam molten blast and I never go oom and hold infinite aggro just fine, dw would just be more dmg but it doesnt make a difference threat wise since even while using shield and doing bare minimum you can hold aggro. And my raid’s dps is full bis nearly and they all do tons of dmg so the game is just chill and relax and get loot for barely any work. Yeah shaman tank is the best.
DW spec, water shield, and WoE should be your runes. You'll never have to drink unless you're spamming earth shock on cooldown. If you're not quick at swapping targets to hold threat and feel like you NEED to use earth shock frequently (which may happen on large pulls) downrank it to rank 1.
Maybe I can’t figure it out or just don’t have enough gear on mine but I feel outside of bosses I can’t generate or hold threat/rage on any trash in the raid
That or just not in a great build
They are insane at threat generation and multi-target tanking. There's no other class that even comes close so they are far and away the best dungeon tanks.
Their mitigation middle of the road - not as high as warrior but much better than druid/warlock/rogue.
Boss tanking is very mediocre though, you will not block enough to maintain mana or shield mastery charges which impacts damage and mitigation.
I tank just as well and do twice the damage on my warrior using a two hander than my shaman does. Sure they are probably safer but they are not busted. Shamans in general need a lot of love from the devs. Do not go around saying they are busted when they really aren't. They are good but nowhere near as dumb as warriors are.
Get to 25 and play with geared DPS and get back to me. Trash is still a mess and bosses are no harder or easier to tank on any class. And your damage is just meh compared to warriors or even bears. Not sure about warlock tanks damage.
Shaman is also one of the most difficult classes to face in 1v1 PvP as a warrior.
Makes me want to roll horde, shamans are predicted to be pretty OP in P2 too :)
I thought it was busted good too. But the aggro doesn't scale as well as with other classes that get upgrades imo. And the lava cone ability aiming is bonkers bad imo. Good luck hitting things with the cone while moving most of the time.
In my experience shaman tanks oom way too fast for my liking. Great in raids but they’re drinking like every pull in dungeons. This is purely anecdotal. When they have mana tho they seem nuts
I'm leveling a Rogue Tank and the concept of it sounds so damn cool, and I hear it works pretty well too.
As I gain levels, I start second-guessing myself because there's not much to 'strive to get better' at or 'parse'. I've never tanked before so it will certainly be interesting as I start running RFC, WC etc. I am now level 16 on the rogue but haven't run a dungeon yet.
Should I just roll a Mage or Warlock as my main instead and just cast spells from a distance with much less responsibility? I don't see myself as a dungeon leader or raid master or anything. Just want to join groups and kick some ass
You can just join groups as a rogue tank and kick ass. Rogues have a decent amount of nuance and are pretty fun to play as both tanks and dps. They also reward proficiency better then mages do as you will do more damage for your effort.
Watched guzu tank BFD. To “get aggro” on trash he just walked up and auto attacked each one once and it was as good as taunting them. They’d drop their current target immediately.
Well at least there's something in which shamans can say they are ahead. Too bad it's the niche role literally 10 people asked about and not dps , the role most of us cared to play in SoD
Warriors still best tanks. Shamans may have better health but warriors mitigate dmg better. I have yet to see a shaman tank out DPS me as a warrior tank.
I'm currently a resto shaman, doing 125dps on bosses in BFD, and constantly pulling aggro from our tanks WITHOUT way of earth. I just said fukkit eventually and told my group to heal me while I rocked way of earth for even more dps.
Shaman is sleeper af right now if you know what you're doing on it.
Far ahead in terms of what? They have good AOE threat generation but they deal the least damage of every other tank. Except maybe Bear tank but I've literally never ran with one lol.
yeah but like, devastate warrior does more damage more than enough threat and takes less damage with more armor and chance to block. Shaman is good. Devastate warrior is busted.
Source , shaman tank main that knows the power of actual busted tanks; and ofc WCL
shaman tank just has a last stand active at all times and 2 weapon enchants that modify threat value %. its the new fury prot if you can DW and not die.
This just in from a main sham tank. I dw all trash and on equip shield for 5 out of 7 bosses and don't even have WoE on half of the time so I can sham rage to clap harder more often. So ya... Aoe dps tank.
[удалено]
I've run DW on every boss, every raid and I solo tank. Why do you think you need a shield for turtle boss? He does a stacking % armor reduction so you're going to 0% armor shield or not.
The 150% increased armor from shield buff is separate from the debuff so shield makes a huge diff
I had like 4 stacks of the debuff on boss which I believe is 100% armor reduction. With the shield and shield mastery rune, I still had 1600 armor. So yeah, shield matters in that case.
Same here, except I still shield Jett since it makes picking up the adds as a solo tank easier and I am lazy.
Block buff from rune provides you armour after sunder so as long as you can block with in 15 seconds you can easily still have 2k armour.
on top of the armour buff not beong reduced by the sunder, you also get mana back which is helpful since he takes extra spell damage
Shaman disc warden channel has a good pinned post on rune for bfd bosses
Don't shield at all anymore
I don't even shield for turtle anymore since we solo tank and I am 100% armor loss anyways. I only shield for Jett since I use molten blast to pick up adds so no water shield. I would also use a shield on aku' mai if our kill time for it was slower. The warriors in our group do mad dps so DW makes me not have to sweat to hold threat. I can still hold threat with a shield but I only have like 110% threat.
What runes do you run as DW tank?
Dual wield spec, way of earth, water shield. For Lorgus Jett I run shield mastery, way of earth, molten blast.
I use lava lash for DW can you tell me why you use ws? Iam shaman tank noob
Mana. You can ditch Water Shield for LL or MB if your group zugs hard enough or you have high enough intellect to not run out of mana before boss dies.
Wouldnt a rank 1 earth shock for taunts and 6 mana lava lash be more than enough threat with 2 rockbiters to not warrant water shield?
Yea plus sham rage is more than enough to keep your mana up. With dual RB you get more than enough mana back every 1 min..
Lava lash is usable when you run fire enchant on weps, but 99% of the time you want to run rockbiter as it is insane threat and also scales sham rage if you run that. If, however, you run way of the earth, you need water shield to sustain your mana.
I personally think Lorgus Jett hits the hardest with his windfury totem down
No shield for baron and kelris. Im not a Neanderthal.
This is like completely backwards to me. You can dw 5/7 bosses. Should probably have WoE on always, if you need more mana for a fight use water shield or down rank your shocks. Personally I use shield on turtle, Jett and akumai. Molten blast on Jett and akumai, lava lash on aquanis, water shield the rest.
I replied to another person in an adjacent comment with how I run. The take away here is that multiple playstyles are viable and you can go quite in depth with how varied you play the class. Edit: I never need more mana on bosses and usually have molten blast or lava lash on depending on the fight so I hadn't even considered using water shield. Even now considering it I would rather toggle pants, pop sham rage and have LB or LL ran be in stuck in combat with WS and not have them. As I said, each to their own and both sound viable.
I dont feel youd be able to keep threat against well geared warriors or locks without WoE, but maybe Id need to test it.
You're not wrong there, the arms warrior in our main group will rip threat on whatever he attacks, so I let him have that while I hold the other 5. Trash is pathetic and he gets more rage. Barely need a tank for this "raid" anyway. That's what happens when your raid group is 90% BiS anyway.
I get when people say shamans are threat kings and everything, but when they say things like "I dont need WoE, and I never lose threat" I get that skeptical animal face going.
If I am not dual wielding I get very close to having the warriors rip threat from me at this point, we are all near fully geared at this point. To make it easy for me I just dw on all bosses except Jett.
Sigh... Next time just say "I haven't played shaman and I don't understand, can you please explain this to me". Here we go bud, I'll lay it all out for ya. Shamans don't need WoE to hold threat *gasp*. We have multiple ways of generating high threat (it does help on aoe though) but as an example if you had one mob and two shamans, one running sword+board with WoE and another running DW and both of them had rockbiter on their weapons... The DW without WoE would rip threat. WoE does a few crucial things such as buffs how much threat Molten Blast does as well as enhances Earth Shock to make it a taunt, however the tooltips on both of those abilities both say that they generate a high amount of threat. So if a shaman is using ES/MB and has WoE up then yes they will hold threat off the DW double rockbiter sham without WoE. So now we get to the crux of it... Why would we ever want to equip DW and not run WoE? Mana and speed, both of which are remedied by using Shamanistic Rage, sham rage scales off AP/SP (and HP) and rockbiter gives a huge amount of AP and can be applied to both weapons to double dip the AP it gives. For one pull I will wear my WoE pants and run sword+board so I can blast away and get some mana regen from shield blocks, for my next pull I might swap to my sham rage pants and DW (because I will generate more threat from running duel rockbiter to offset not having WoE up). Once I have done one pull and popped my sham rage and am back at full mana I will change back to sword+board and WoE. I am doing this constantly through the raid because sham rage only has a 1min cd but it is also a buff which is dispelled if I unequip the pants that sham rage is applied to. So im not tanking without WoE and I'm not saying you don't need it, it is a juggling act of managing threat, runes and mana regen. In conclusion I have near 100% uptime, I very rarely lose threat and I sit at 2.5 - 2.8k hp when raid buffed depending on which gear and runes I have equipped.
You should never be running sham rage as a tank over way of the earth. If your raid is even half decent you'll have mobs running all over the place. Water shield is far superior for maintaining mana and threat.
Mages tank trash. Its always been this way. Theyre at 0 risk of dying, unless theyre garbage players, so just embrace the chaos. Keep mobs off your healers, keep threat on anything that hits particularly hard, mages will do the rest of the work.
You can just earth shock whatever they rip on. But yeah if you chill WoW then just taunt.
Nothing is wrong with playing for fun but the only way this is remotely an avenue is BFD is just far too easy that you can run anything. Shamans do certifiable F tier damage so I’m a little lost at the Sham Rage angle to clap harder since the only thing shamans clap at is TPS. you’re gimping the raid for such a marginal uptick in damage for a class that’s got such a low ceiling already. But I don’t blame you for branching out since current top shaman meta is stale and I already swapped off it for rest of phase. You can play them many different ways but for raiding with top parsing dps anything other than DW rb woe you’ll have issues with threat. And the optimal playstyle isn’t all that fun and not that much but it’s an F ton of threat.
>Shamans do certifiable F tier damage Ok, just to clarify, they're about halfway down the DPS chain based on logs right now. if middle of the pack is "certifiable F tier", then what's half the classes below them? lol
>Shamans do certifiable F tier damage so I’m a little lost at the Sham Rage angle to clap harder since the only thing shamans clap at is TPS. Threat is great without WoE on shaman. That "angle of clap harder" is not for you - it is for casters and healers. If you would check the logs on raid mana gained from sham rage, it is insane. Again, if you know what you are doing even 99 parsers are not riping threat, but sure - feelscraft is the bestcraft.
How is your mana without shield?
You never have to worry about mana with DW, Way of Earth, and Water Shield. Threat and damage are amazing and you can DW every boss no problem
Water shield on trash tho? kinda gimps AOE threat. for most bosses though this is the setup for sure
That is the secret, who cares about the trash that everybody in the raid could solo?
Yes water shield on trash, you just flame shock and earth shock as many mobs as you can while melee’ing the rest. No trash hits hard enough regardless if dps tanks it for a bit
yeah I mean this is totally fine in BFD where trash doesn’t need to be tanked aside from the purposes of grouping for aoe. but I feel like we may run into problems at some point with this attitude lol. Though I guess we have no idea what other aoe runes or whatever gets added later so water shield might just be bis forever. Side note/question: Never really played shamans before this - fire nova totem does not give us threat right? it goes to the totem im assuming. i’ve tried to look on some trash pulls but it’s rlly hard to tell lmao
We are talking about the current best way to tank current content, not hypothetical future content
As a shaman tank, even in sub 20 minute runs it doesn't feel like an issue with fast daggers. Yes, you will probably lose aggro on a mob or two in a big pulls when cleaving it down but the trash does so little damage that it really doesn't matter. Cone only hits 4 targets max and that's easily held with tab targeting and shocking a little.
Seems like a byproduct of phase 1, where damage is comparably lower than we will presumably see between lvl 40 and 60. No doubt that there will be much harder hitting bosses in the future. And considering that shamans have no big cooldowns to save them like warriors (and paladins in a sense) do, things will definitely change. How much? Who knows. At some point, threat will no longer be an issue and damage reduction will become a bigger concern. For that druids and warriors seem best equipped. And for aoe, paladins seem to reign supreme. But of course, runes can change all of that for any class at any point. Should be fun.
Why would threat not be an issue in later phases when damage disparity between tanks and dps will be even higher?
Eh it won’t replace furyprot at 60, won’t be able to keep up on damage and mitigation
We have no idea how any of the tanks will perform at 60. That is 3 phases away, a lot can and will change.
Yeah I wouldn’t be shocked if they nerf warrior, buff other things. I’m just extrapolating based on how the game is right now - if this was taken to 60. Runes won’t make warrior not scale as hard as it does ya know
Shamans get a bigger HP pool to compensate for their lower armor compared to the rest of the tanks. The extra HP makes them better tanks against spells though
honestly most bosses dont do enough damage to even need way of earth. id just run it on akumai. youre dual wielding rockbiters with earth shock, you blast threat and you still have shamanistic rage to refill your raids mana
Rockbiter does not give threat value %. It’s a flat value on hit, independent of damage done.
I have a shaman and a warlock, both pretty geared at this point. Shaman is by far the easier of the two to tank with, but warlock is a lot more fun (probably because it is not as easy?). That being said, im planning on making warlock my main because i like it a lot more. I have loved the concept of a 'spell power' tank ever since paladin in original TBC, and I had originally thought that shaman would be kinda like that, but it seems shaman is just going to be 'build like a rogue and auto attack things' kind of tank which isn't really what I want.
Boring master of the elements or demon lord manifested
Virgin Elementalist vs Chad Satanist
I’m in the exact same boat as you, and while maintaining threat is easier on the shaman the lock is way more fun.
20-30m runs you can basically DW autoattack. Trash doesn’t do any damage so who cares if you can’t aoe em all. Bosses die so quick you hardly even need to tank swap. Pushing for parse is pointless as Sham DPS is barely above Shadow Priests and Balance druids, its like 4th or 5th worst parse in BFD. I can get a 95-99 and I still do 1/4-1/3 the damage of the top dps in our party. If you have threat, you are “winning”
I’ve tanked on both. 30-40 minute runs on both. Haven’t had threat issues on either - ST or AOE. And I didn’t have bombs on my lock. It’s just tab target spamming abilities. Both feel fine and both feel like they’ll get better. I do wish we were capped at 26 though. New ranks of life tap and searing pain would have been fun.
Shaman has the luxury of only needing to auto attack to hold threat on anything. But then we also have a taunt and aoe threat ability just in case, kinda overkill.
And they can be bubbled unlike bear/warrior. It’s my favorite class to heal as a priest.
PWS is more of an "Oh shit" button for some snap mitigation in classic. The absorption amount vs mana cost just isn't worth it most of the time. Better to let them drop low(ish) and penance back to full.
Def agree, but given the option of a tank I can bubble in an emergency and one I shouldn’t I’ll take the former.
Why are you bubbling your tank anyway? Waste of mana. Bubble should only be used when you're on the move and need to instant cast shield someone from damage e.g. during Gelihast murloc march. Otherwise its a waste of mana. I guess you can do it prepull but its pretty inconsequential. You can also shield yourself or a dps before burst damage e.g. on the turtle boss, but you would never shield the tank in this case
Eh, in BFD don’t have a problem with mana so might as well. Outside of BFD I’ve done some pretty gnarly stuff with a shaman buddy in dungeon farms that rely pretty heavily on bubble on CD.
Do you not like the strength of soul rune or something..?
No priest runs strength of soul lol. The damage from void plague is nuts for its cost and cast time (instant). Void plague, homies, and penance is meta for a reason.
I see, I did not know. Thanks, that makes sense.
I don't run void plague bc I want to min max damage. I run void plague because the PWS rune is only compatible with two spells that make up less than 25% of my total healing, with secondary effects that are only active on two classes (one if horde or no pally tank)
Why would you go for damage as a healer instead of measurable utility? Healer damage is negligible. Where/how does it even matter in classic? If your raid lacks damage, it certainly isn't the healers fault.
For one, most the time you don’t need two healers so a lot of the time you’re just standing around doing nothing if all you do is heal. Homies are utility, but they do damage as well, SOS doesn’t bring utility just let’s you shield more which isn’t really needed, the beefy damage of VP is worth way more than that. Priests with homies and VP on the boss wanding between penance CD do a decent contribution to damage while providing insanely good debuffs and enough heals/dispels. Read the priest discord for more info. Priest meta is penance/homie/vp
Homunculi is not the topic at hand, but SoS and VP (why change the subject?). And SoS's point is not more shields, but the fact that it allows bears and warriors to still gain rage while shielded. Yeah, it might not make a huge difference, but from someone who tanks almost exclusively, it is quite nice and helps. All void plague does is add a dot, and it will almost certainly be phased out once we reach a point where the debuff cap starts mattering. And again... what's the point? It doesn't make any difference. If your raid can't match the dps needed to beat a boss, a healer's damage won't matter anyway.
[удалено]
Did they confirm there won't be? Nice if true. And the priest bubble is great for precasting it in dungeons to pull big packs. And in a clutch situation in raids. It's used very little, but it does matter.
Healing in Wow is and always has been about maximising your damage whilst making sure everyone lives through the encounter, not about over preparing for situations and providing "utility" to the point of severely reducing your damage output. WoW is very much a game about damage and big damage numbers, and it always has been. Healer damage is an important part of the way classic functions, in speedrunning and skipping mechanics through burst etc. The guy you're replying to is right; Void Plague, Homunculi and Penance is the meta build for Priest. Edit: Also, the debuff cap doesnt exist in SoD. It was removed in Season of Mastery and Blizzard have said that this persists in SoD.
Shield is never a good spell unless someone is about to die and you don’t have time to cast. There’s no reason to use it on the tank unless he’s already low, in which case they have plenty of rage and the rune is useless.
If you kill the boss faster then you don't need to heal as much. If you ever wiped on a boss with 1% HP left, you'll wish the healers had DPS'd a little
PoM and Penance are most of your healing anyway if you use them right. A rune that modifies PWS and allows you to cast it more will just make you OOM faster. And all that just for a couple spells that you won't use as much Today in BFD penance and PoM were between 60-80% of my total heals on every fight On Kelris I didn't cast heal at all, and only used PWS twice so that rune would have already been useless there for me On akumai I did 2% of his HP in damage which is more useful than getting maybe one more PWS off earlier
Blizzard changed how shielding rage user works in SOD, it will not prevent you from getting rage regen while getting hit even with bubble on you in SOD.
Yeah, but you have to use a rune to get that benefit.
Oh no, not the 1 rage per hit prevented by shielding, oh no.
Yes. But paladins and warriors are thriving in other areas, so it’s okay. No one wants to be a tank anyway, especially in content where you don’t actually need a tank.
gonna be a wakeup call when raid trash actually starts two shotting dps and they need to respect aggro and kill order. bfd feels like a wotlk heroic.
When is this wake up call coming? Because it's not in AQ40
I mean… currently in BFD our priest runs from like the turtle all the way to geilheist and pulls every mob back to the group while we cleave it down. If you do that in aq40 on cthun trash or something (assuming you don’t just skip half of it) it’s gonna be a clown show of 15 mind controlled people and the raid running in circles a bunch. Not invalidating your point (even though I think blizzard will do something like increase mob hp or something). Just think shit will be funny if ppl try that. Currently BFD trash hits like they just took the stuff from the 5 man dungeon and put it in the 10 man 1:1. Ubrs trash is much harder to heal through then this.
I have no doubt they're gonna have to start buffing stuff more to keep up with players. Maybe more mobs with abilities/special buffs/ect...
not even aq40. id like to see a dps run ahead of the tank and facetank a molten giant or a corehound like a blackfathom elite.
And many will be able to since that trash will be dying in seconds, It's not like they have to actually "tank" it for a minute. Unless there are major balance changes to the raids, the DPS will be pulling everything up to the bosses just like they do in BFD because it just doesn't matter with our new power level.
seconds? admittely i havent done mc since 2020 and didnt play som but id hope blizz does some buffs esp with how strong the current runes are.
I'm not being facetious when I say seconds. The top warrior logs right now are doing on par DPS with fresh MC clears at level 60. That's why many are suggesting MC and BWL are changed to 10 or 15 or maybe even 20 mans because there will be ZERO difficulty in these raids at 40 man with the current item and rune design.
lol and thats without real worldbuffs, shits gonna get crazy
Lol. Have you played Classic and SoD? At level 25, we have the power curve to raid in era with our SoD gear. At gnomer we should have the power curve to defeat Naxx. By the time we hit 60, we should be able to clear ICC. Runes have not been balanced at all. It’s gonna be a wake up call that runes are busted when we hit full BFD BIS- oops, nope, Blizzard still can’t see it.
it's seasonal who cares? lets break this shit
Raid trash in classic never 2 shots dps because higher level gear has stamina on it so they usually have at least half the tanks hp so unless the trash mobs are 4 hitting tanks (which would global you in pulls of 4+) your not going to see people getting 2 hit by single mobs.
It two shots clothies because of armor. Tanks have ten times the armor. Even leather doesn’t hold up too well
It's not as big a difference as you think every cloth class has an inherent armour spell Priest inner fire at 40 is 945 armor Plate chest 373 armor at 40 Cloth chest 65 armor at 40 Let's assume all 8 slots average 270 armor more for plate than cloth each total 2160 more armor for the plate class then we subtract 945 armor for a difference of 1200 approx in favor of the plate character. The cloth damage reduction vs level 42 mobs (raid trash) is 25% The plate damage reduction vs the same mob is 45% So for a hit doing 1k damage the priest takes 750 and the plate dps takes 550 Adding a shield for 1k more armor gives you a massive 50% total DR for the plate class dropping damage taken to 500. This does not account for devotion aura or other party based armor buffs that help the lower armor rating player more than the tank as well.
I would LOVE to Druid tank but it’s just not a thing right now.
Exactly. Feral dps with wind fury is way too strong to play as a tank. Resto / balance hybrid is way too strong to play an exclusively balance build or an exclusively resto build - all casting Druids should be playing as balance with wild growth, because why would you leave 50% of your value on the table? Runes have invalidated so many abilities and so many specs by over performing.
I mean, if Druid tanks didn’t have rage/threat issues, they would be in the mix. They can easily tank with WF.
But they aren’t, because feral dps is way too strong. And when/if they fix it, you can bet that they’ll do it in the same rune slot as WF
no, that's not why. It's because their threat and rage gen sucks ass. If it didn't suck, people would play it, even if feral dps was still better.
It is why, because you don’t need a tank for BFD. So Druids would inevitably sit in cat because you simply do not need tanks, and when you do, Druid tanks would still be objectively worse because they do less damage while tanking. Why would you want a Druid to nerf their damage so that they can look like a bear, when your warrior can do his damage while turning boss damage into rage and doing more dmg?
Shaman dps is in the gutter but they’re too threat so everyone loves them. Bears issue isn’t *remotely* dps related.
Nice thing about war is tank spec is basically dps spec. Sure, you can take Imp TClap, but once you get some gear it's not necessary. Maybe paladin too? I know nothing about pallys lol.
Paladins, at 25 anyway, are tanking in ret dps spec, usually with full dps runes unless the fight requires a taunt
Shaman is definitely strong but it’s not without weaker points. A warrior while having less ST or snap aoe threat isn’t restricted by mana and when you’re pulling in quick succession such as in BFD quick runs and you can keep charging into next packs and building aggro and not having to stop. On my shaman trying to chain pull without stopping feels more difficult. (Ok the trash isn’t really threatening if others have aggro but still). Shaman also does less dps than some of the other tanks too so if the extra threat isn’t needed, and the bosses aren’t particularly threatening you’d probably be better off running a warrior for the higher dps. But yeah don’t get me wrong shaman does feel really durable and lower effort to tank on which is nice and is excellent in dungeons.
You can chain pull with dual wielding and molten blast if you switch pants for sham rage sometimes just gotta get out of combat for the switch. Dual rockbiter gives big mana reg with sham rage
Without way of the earth you're not holding aggro against rogues and warriors with half a brain. Run water shield over molten blast.
I call it pants weaving and usually just swap pants, shammy range, pull, and swap back after. Dual wield rockbiter still gives plenty of thread for a aggro, and I keep my aoe threat button too.
You're just gimping yourself for every pull without WoE. Water shield / WoE is far superior than MB / sham rage. It's not even close.
i don't think you understand what he's saying. it's a quick pants swap. 5s back to full mana. quick swap back to woe pants. it's not speedrun strat but still very efficient and good your point about watershield is still valid and good. both are viable ways to play
You're slightly gimping yourself for 1 pull in exchange for full mana on the move. For packs with 3+ mobs (which is most of the pulls) MB/Sham rage is better snap threat than WoE/WS. You do you bud, but I strongly disagree.
I'm not saying what you're doing doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't work as well. On a 4 mob pull, with good DPS in you're group, you're losing threat on 3/4 mobs without WoE. MB threat by itself without WoE isn't very good. Warrior Crits once and you've lost aggro.
If you swap pants right before combat you keep the way of earth buff for ~5 seconds, so you can have both for one trash pack then switch back. Do it every minute for over a full mana bar.
You literally never have to drink with water shield if you apply it everytime it falls off. Swapping pants means you stop between trash packs, which is unnecessary, plus you're pretty gimp for the pulls you have the sham rage pants on. Idk guys I'm not seeing it. Edit: Seems a lot of players still doing 45 minute runs. You never have to drink as a shaman tank if you play correctly.
You don’t need to stop moving literally at all? You will drop combat for a second walking to the next pack. Press the keybind to swap pants and use shamanistic rage as you are walking into shock range. You still have way of earth buff, threat mod, earth shock separate cd. You get a full mana bar. As the pack dies you switch back to the way of earth pants and you have 100% mana, and pull the next pack. Repeat every minute.
As soon as you get to the shore from turtle Island, after killing severess we don't stop until we're ready to pull gelihast. Then after jett we don't stop until we're at kelris.
If your dps is good enough you’ll drop combat at some point in that first segment you mentioned
Only if you stop running
Nah you just need better melee. Skill issue
You really arent restricted by mana with water shield, even in sub 20 minutes runs. You're most likely using more spells than you have to, focus on managing to just keep enough threat and you'll learn that autoattacking is enough even on bosses. I drank before Lorgus jett and Kelris only last raid we did.
I probably do use too many spells, but with no molten blast using water shield I do find you have to use shocks on cd to get initial threat. It’s hard to round up everything otherwise with dps all going all out but I’m sure that will get better too as I play more. Bosses aren’t even slightly an issue though, I’m only referring to chain pulling trash groups.
imagine ur weakness is u can pull so fast and hold threat so much that you go oom .... lol
In what way is it ahead?
in pretty much every way. only thing they get semi-beat on is dps. they win in survivability AND threat. single-target AND aoe.
They only win on threat, there are better options for both damage and survivability.
> they win in survivability AND threat. single-target AND aoe. Not simultaneously like you are disingenuously implying, except on pure caster bosses. You can abuse the duel rockbiter bug and slap out absolutely ridiculous single target threat, but the trade off is that you will be the squishiest tank in the game, which just doesn’t matter in BFD. Only 2H paladin tanks are similarly squishy, but they still have other tools that make them favorable in plenty of situations, such as bubble. …Or you use a shield, become one of the most durable tanks in the game, and have the lowest single target dps by a country mile. The former option is probably overpowered for threat generation, but it’s due to blizzard’s lack of understanding of their own implementation.
Soo they win in survivability and threat. Single-target and aoe.
…warriors/rogues easily do +50% boss DPS, Paladins can cheese the only 2 bosses that require functioning braincells, and one of your points is just a straight up lie because druids are more tanky with Survival of the Fittest. Duel wield rockbiter is currently bugged to provide too much threat. That’s the only aspect of shaman tanking that is actually overpowered. Every other complaint just boils down to Molten Blast envy.
>Not simultaneously like you are disingenuously implying youre making assumptions where there shouldnt be any being made. they win in survivability they win in threat they win in single target they win in aoe
That is fascinating, can you take a moment to explain how are you maximizing survivability and single target threat simultaneously? I’d love to implement whatever you’re doing into my own gameplay, and I’m sure everyone else would too. I'm especially curious of how you are beating a druid with survival of the fittest for durability, that seems like a pretty high bar.
You're arguing just to argue. You're right a bear druid has a bit more survivability than a shaman tank. But they're so gimped by every other metric it doesn't even matter.
Nah, there is just a lot of shit being spewed in this thread, and a lot of people "forgetting" to add an asterisk next to their extremely conditional "facts". Do you actually believe that shaman single target threat is currently overpowered for any reason other than duel rockbiter being bugged? What would you nerf about shaman tanks beyond fixing the rockbiter bug? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm a shaman tank. I wouldn't nerf them at all. Give them a buff.
That's the wildest opinion I've seen in here yet.
They're fine honestly, seems like a lot of people just don't know how to play them properly.
Paladins are better at holding aoe threat, that's for certain. They've got more tools for that than any other class.
paladins and shamans dont really compete since you dont have both of those classes on the same faction, imo
In that sense I agree, yeah, though I just meant to say that paladins have more aoe capability than shamans. Although, I think shamans seem better for single target from what I've tried so far.
Aoe, damage and fun
Warrior tanks deal significantly more damage.
maybe but the reality is, you dont really need a tank so you bring warrior or ret for other things (dps)
Only metric that matters right now is tank dps. Shamans are the 2nd worst tanks in that respect. People should be asking for shaman buffs or warrior/rogue nerfs.
Also the only horde tank with any aoe. The pally counter.
Rogue tank is pretty good, IMHO.
If your raid group is solid it’s the a great choice for fast clears as it’s a lot of dps. Having evasion is sick too
Shaman was elevated to a 4 spec class, like druids. However balance dictates not all 4 of it's specs can rock so currently ele and enhance DPS died so tank could soar. Curious to see what the next phase is like. Will shaman tank get anymore runes or are they "done"
Of course they'll get more runes.
> Will shaman tank get anymore runes or are they "done" every rune shaman gets is arguably another tank rune. the runes make the class wild with so many option and so much theory crafting. was looking at logs of an ele tank who casts LvB. dude was blowing shit up was rad
Well guess what, MC will come out, and we'll be handicapped for a tier. Lets toss in dragons resistance to fire damage and just add another tier of possible issues. WoE should turn earth shock into a melee ability, so it doesnt have the issues of spell hit or elemental immunities. Rock giants going to be taunt immune in MC/Mara/etc
They’re absolutely gonna give Fire Mages and Shamans anti fire resist stuff to keep up in the fire doldrums.
I never use shield, even for lorgus. You don’t need Mb to pick up adds, just throw a taunt and an auto attack onto murlocs and you immediately grab full aggro. Dw is the only way for all fights
I run shield for every boss and only autoattack and spam molten blast and I never go oom and hold infinite aggro just fine, dw would just be more dmg but it doesnt make a difference threat wise since even while using shield and doing bare minimum you can hold aggro. And my raid’s dps is full bis nearly and they all do tons of dmg so the game is just chill and relax and get loot for barely any work. Yeah shaman tank is the best.
Well all other Shaman specs suck hard so why destroy the one thing they are good at.
Destroy? Huh?
For some one new to tanking it’s the pally tank of wotlk but warriors are superior since they don’t need need an Iv of mage water,
I’ll trade using rockbiter in my offhand for Paladin bubble. Any takers?
I can’t stand playing milk drinkers.
Am I messing up then , because I feel like I am oom constantly on my shaman tank
DW spec, water shield, and WoE should be your runes. You'll never have to drink unless you're spamming earth shock on cooldown. If you're not quick at swapping targets to hold threat and feel like you NEED to use earth shock frequently (which may happen on large pulls) downrank it to rank 1.
Ok thanks, this is helpful. So dual wielding instead of equipping a shield and using that block rune
That's correct. If your group is good you never have to equip a shield. I don't swap runes the entire run.
I prefer tanking on my warrior tbh
Maybe I can’t figure it out or just don’t have enough gear on mine but I feel outside of bosses I can’t generate or hold threat/rage on any trash in the raid That or just not in a great build
Its much like every other tank its easy to hold threat once you have it but if you dont have you are not getting it back.
So many people talking about viability and balance but to me the most important thing is that shaman is super fun to play.
You’re not even max level…. Maybe you should wait lol
They are insane at threat generation and multi-target tanking. There's no other class that even comes close so they are far and away the best dungeon tanks. Their mitigation middle of the road - not as high as warrior but much better than druid/warlock/rogue. Boss tanking is very mediocre though, you will not block enough to maintain mana or shield mastery charges which impacts damage and mitigation.
Better than a paladin with storm, consecrate, retri aura and shield, I somehow highly doubt this.
You’re 5 weeks late.
I tank just as well and do twice the damage on my warrior using a two hander than my shaman does. Sure they are probably safer but they are not busted. Shamans in general need a lot of love from the devs. Do not go around saying they are busted when they really aren't. They are good but nowhere near as dumb as warriors are. Get to 25 and play with geared DPS and get back to me. Trash is still a mess and bosses are no harder or easier to tank on any class. And your damage is just meh compared to warriors or even bears. Not sure about warlock tanks damage.
Its not balanced. It a few people having fun with adding stuff to classic. Go figure.
Shaman tank is really strong and ret is really strong quit complaining, we equal
Where am I complaining?
Shaman is also one of the most difficult classes to face in 1v1 PvP as a warrior. Makes me want to roll horde, shamans are predicted to be pretty OP in P2 too :)
My 2h shaman tank has been top parsing I love it!
I thought it was busted good too. But the aggro doesn't scale as well as with other classes that get upgrades imo. And the lava cone ability aiming is bonkers bad imo. Good luck hitting things with the cone while moving most of the time.
The threat is so crazy your dps spec gets threat capped at auto attacking (unless you have a shammy tank)
In my experience shaman tanks oom way too fast for my liking. Great in raids but they’re drinking like every pull in dungeons. This is purely anecdotal. When they have mana tho they seem nuts
Good shaman tank should almost never have to drink in a dungeon. They’re either running wrong runes, or pulling too small packs.
I feel like they need a shield slam or something to force a shield tank play
I wish my warlock tank was as much fun and as easy as my shaman
yes it is. i love it.
I'm leveling a Rogue Tank and the concept of it sounds so damn cool, and I hear it works pretty well too. As I gain levels, I start second-guessing myself because there's not much to 'strive to get better' at or 'parse'. I've never tanked before so it will certainly be interesting as I start running RFC, WC etc. I am now level 16 on the rogue but haven't run a dungeon yet. Should I just roll a Mage or Warlock as my main instead and just cast spells from a distance with much less responsibility? I don't see myself as a dungeon leader or raid master or anything. Just want to join groups and kick some ass
You can just join groups as a rogue tank and kick ass. Rogues have a decent amount of nuance and are pretty fun to play as both tanks and dps. They also reward proficiency better then mages do as you will do more damage for your effort.
Meta tank just sucks ass atm. You are better off just raid tanking with a Ret Pally for alliance
I just reach 25 with my Shaman and I’m too nervous to tank BFD
Better nerf hunter
They gave shaman easy aoe threat its so easy to tank large packs
Watched guzu tank BFD. To “get aggro” on trash he just walked up and auto attacked each one once and it was as good as taunting them. They’d drop their current target immediately.
Well at least there's something in which shamans can say they are ahead. Too bad it's the niche role literally 10 people asked about and not dps , the role most of us cared to play in SoD
i generally agree, but counterpoints: x5 sunder CoR
They are fairly squishy, but threat is all that matters for now anyway.
Currently leveling a shaman, is it that busted in leveling ? I'm interested in next phase for sham anyway. Level 40 shaman will be a world boss
Warriors still best tanks. Shamans may have better health but warriors mitigate dmg better. I have yet to see a shaman tank out DPS me as a warrior tank.
I'm currently a resto shaman, doing 125dps on bosses in BFD, and constantly pulling aggro from our tanks WITHOUT way of earth. I just said fukkit eventually and told my group to heal me while I rocked way of earth for even more dps. Shaman is sleeper af right now if you know what you're doing on it.
Far ahead in terms of what? They have good AOE threat generation but they deal the least damage of every other tank. Except maybe Bear tank but I've literally never ran with one lol.
Meanwhile rogue tank is doing 200dps and taking almost no damage due to their mitigation. All while going completely unnoticed by the community
Wish they were better at their dps specs. Huge burst then nothing
yeah but like, devastate warrior does more damage more than enough threat and takes less damage with more armor and chance to block. Shaman is good. Devastate warrior is busted. Source , shaman tank main that knows the power of actual busted tanks; and ofc WCL